Israeli paper investigates 50-year-ago attack on ‘USS Liberty,’ while US papers leave it in the letters column

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Earlier this week Haaretz once again showed itself to be head and shoulders above U.S. media in addressing issues of Israel’s influence inside U.S. politics when it published a major inquiry into one of the lingering mysteries of the 1967 Six-Day War: Why did Israeli jets and boats attack the USS Liberty, a spy ship, on the fourth day of the war, killing 34 Americans and wounding scores of others?

The article reaches no fresh conclusions about the reason for the attack, or why it was swept under the rug with an apology and a handshake, but its headline is enormously provocative —

‘But Sir, It’s an American Ship.’ ‘Never Mind, Hit Her!’

And those lines are taken from a new American book on the case, a study that the U.S. press is ignoring. That’s the problem here; Haaretz is confronting a U.S. mystery head on during an important anniversary when no US media will touch the story.

Our business here is not to credit one theory or another about the attack on the Liberty. We could accept the view, which the Haaretz article endorses, that the attack was a mistake or “screw-up” in the fog of war. But as Haaretz states, the evidence is ambiguous, and conspiracy theories about the attack still abound. And the chief adherents of these theories are survivors of the attack or family members, or U.S. Navy supporters.

What is unquestionable is the magnitude of the attack: it was a grave blow to the burgeoning U.S.-Israel special relationship, yet President Lyndon Johnson, who was far more friendly to Israel than John Kennedy, was willing to let the matter pass without a blow-up. That pattern, of letting the Liberty attack go as just some kind of  misunderstanding, has persisted to this day in the American media silence about the case even on its 50th anniversary.

The coverage has largely been international. Three years ago Al Jazeera did an investigation of the case, concluding:

The top Israeli commanders, [former CIA official Bobby Ray Inman] explained, had known exactly what they were doing when they attacked the Liberty and when it came to holding them to account, the US government rolled over for them.

Google news results for the USS Liberty today, and it’s fascinating. Our leading journals have nothing to say about the 50th anniversary of the Liberty. Besides the Haaretz story, all the leading results are for letters to the editor from people who can’t forget the Liberty. Like this from Allan Gehring in Florida to the Berkshire Eagle, alleging an official coverup:

News media that learned of the attack were warned not to run stories on the assault by powerful forces within our society and, as a result of that suppression, most Americans still do not know about the assault.

Or this one from Frank Malone in the Spokane Spokesman-Review, echoing our point and going further:

We have recently remembered a number of notable anniversaries, including D-Day. However, I saw no coverage of the 50th anniversary of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, which was in international waters during the Six Day War. Thirty-four Americans were killed and 171 were injured. This attack included the war crime of machine-gunning Americans who were in the water.

Israel apologized and made the explanation that it was a mistake. After 50 years, the National Security Administration will not release its confidential details. If the Israeli narrative were true, no one would have an objection to transparency.

Or this juicy one from Les Jordan to the Register-Guard in Eugene, Oregon, also alleging a coverup.

Adm. Thomas Moorer called the attack “pre-meditated murder.” Capt. Ward Boston said that he was outraged that anyone, let alone “apologists for Israel,” could call the Liberty incident a case of mistaken identity. The CIA’s Richard Helms observed that “few in Washington” could believe that the attack was a fluke.

Then there was President Johnson, who ordered a stand-down of any Liberty defense during the two-hour aggression. At the time he was entertaining Mathilde Krim in the White House. Krim was a former Irgun operative and one of his watchers.

Again, we’re not endorsing the conspiratorial view, but what a pity that only Haaretz can touch the story on this anniversary, as more and more principals vanish from the scene.

Here are two interesting passages from the Haaretz story. One quotes at length from a new US book on the matter. That book must be hard to find in the United States!

Israel apologized and paid compensation to the victims’ families. Israeli and American commissions of inquiry found that the attack was a mistake. But naturally, as often happens in such events, to this day there are some who believe Israel attacked the ship with malicious intent. . .

A new book published in May in the United States (its authors include several survivors of the attack) promises that “the truth is being told as never before and the real story revealed.” The 302 pages of “Remember the Liberty!: Almost Sunk by Treason on the High Seas” include quite a number of documents, testimonies, arguments and information that were gathered in the subsequent 50 years . . .

The book includes, among other things, a CIA document from November 1967 that is still partially censored. In the document, which is also on the official CIA website, an anonymous source is quoted as saying: “They said that [then-Israeli Defense Minister Moshe] Dayan personally ordered the attack on the ship, and that one of his generals adamantly opposed the action and said, ‘This is pure murder.’”. . .

On the other hand, the new book quotes a story reported by former U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon Dwight Porter, who recounted a conversation between an Israeli pilot and the Israel Air Force war room, which was allegedly picked up by an NSA aircraft and inadvertently cabled to CIA offices around the world:

Israeli pilot to IDF war room: This is an American ship. Do you still want us to attack?

IDF war room to Israeli pilot: Yes, follow orders.

Israeli pilot to IDF war room: But sir, it’s an American ship – I can see the flag!

IDF war room to Israeli pilot: Never mind; hit it.

Haaretz is not convinced the attack had higher-ups’ approval, but it cites an Israeli historian’s diggings raising questions about that narrative, and documents the Israeli belief that the attack could open a “malignant wound” in U.S.-Israel relations:

In response to a recent request by historian Adam Raz. . . the Israel State Archives posted hundreds of documents on its website related to the USS Liberty affair. . .

[Raz] refuses to accept the assertion that the claims Israel hit the ship deliberately are a conspiracy.

One of the documents Raz found among the hundreds of papers published by the State Archives is the Israeli Foreign Ministry correspondence that was sent from New York to Jerusalem.

“Menashe informed us we had better be very careful. He doesn’t have complete information but he knows that Issaschar is very angry about our letter. The reason is apparently that the Americans have findings that show our pilots were in fact aware the ship was American,” according to the document.

And later: “Menashe believes there is a recording on the ship of the conversations between the ship and our pilots, in which the ship’s crew said the ship is American. Menashe says that, in his opinion, our only chance of getting out of the crisis is to punish someone for negligence.”

In another document, which is also now posted online by the State Archives, the Israeli Embassy in Washington writes to the Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem under the heading “Urgent.”

“We must change the abovementioned letter, because we certainly won’t be able to say there is no basis for the accusation that the identity of the ship was determined by Israeli planes prior to the attack,” it declares.

In other documents, which are fascinating in themselves, there is documentation of Israeli preparations for the U.S. investigation and the demands for compensation that were to follow.

“The issue has turned into a malignant wound, which involves serious dangers for all of our relationships on all levels here, whose friendship was ours until now and which are crucial to our status in the United States. In other words, the president, the Pentagon, public opinion and the intelligence community. Do you realize that the president is also the supreme commander of the U.S. armed forces?” wonders the Israeli Embassy in Washington, in a telegram to the Foreign Ministry.

The piece concludes in the camp of Amir Oren and Tom Segev, Israeli historians who have treated the event as a mistake without malicious intention. Credit Haaretz with the courage to raise the question — which is more than we can say for the New York Times and the Washington Post.

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172 Responses

  1. Keith
    July 13, 2017, 4:33 pm

    PHIL/JAMES- “We could accept the view, which the Haaretz article endorses, that the attack was a mistake or “screw-up” in the fog of war.”

    Seriously? The notion that it was a mistake is ludicrous, and this statement reflects poorly on your intellectual and journalistic integrity. If coming to the obvious conclusion presented political difficulties for Mondoweiss, surely you could have finessed your telling better without your preposterous conclusion. I think it somewhat obvious that the evidence you cite doesn’t support your conclusion.

    There is a story here and it revolves around Moshe Dyan and his feeling that ” “Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.” Why was the Liberty ordered to relocate 100 miles away from the combat by the Joint Chiefs of Staff? Why did Admiral McCain not implement their order? (an alleged “SNAFU” in the communications equipment not believable). Subsequently, Dayan threatened to shoot down US reconnaissance planes and the flights were halted. Was the Liberty a result of LBJ/McCain calling Dayan’s back channel “bluff” only to discover that he wasn’t bluffing? Wouldn’t that have gone over big with the public. Time to CYA. Oh, there is a story here alright, but the telling would cause unpredictable consequences. How much classified material has already been destroyed is anybody’s guess. But, Israel isn’t Russia so what is the problem?

    • Misterioso
      July 14, 2017, 11:01 am

      For the record:

      In 1985, Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, former Chief of U.S. Naval operations, and Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff declared: “Israel continues to insist that the attack was a case of mistaken identity. This claim simply does not hold water. There is simply no way that the Israeli pilots and torpedo boat crews could have concluded that it was anything other than a U.S. ship…. Before as well as subsequent to the attack on the Liberty, the U.S. Congress has investigated in depth just about every incident of a similar nature in which the military forces participated. At the very least the Congress, in deference to the families of the men who died on board the Liberty, should once and for all clear up the uncertainties, speculations, and the unanswered questions surrounding this tragedy, which still is thought by many to be a deliberate cover up on the part of the Government of Israel as well as the Government of the United States.” (Quoted by Charles Curtiss in “A Changing Image…,” p. 87)

      Concrete evidence that Israeli pilots knew before they attacked the Liberty that it was an American ship was finally revealed on November 6, 1991, when American columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak “discovered that the U.S. embassy in Beirut had intercepted Israeli radio traffic [on 8 June 1967] in which an Israeli pilot reported: ‘It’s an American ship.’ The Israeli command ignored the report and ordered the pilot to press his attack.” The accuracy of this information was confirmed by Dwight Porter, the American ambassador to Lebanon during the 1967 war. (Rowland Evans and Robert Novak, Washington Post, 6 November 1991; cited by Paul Findley, “Deliberate Deceptions,” p. 41)

      To quote retired Navy Captain Ward Boston who had served as the chief counsel for the Navy’s 1967 court of inquiry regarding the attack on the Liberty. In October 2003, Boston issued a public statement declaring “that the Navy admiral [Rear Admiral Isaac Kidd Jr.] who investigated the incident had been ordered by President Johnson and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara to conclude it was a case of mistaken identity, despite evidence to the contrary…. I didn’t speak up earlier because I was told not to.” (James W. Crawley, San Diego Union-Tribune, February 17, 2004.)

    • genesto
      July 14, 2017, 12:00 pm

      ”Adm. Thomas Moorer called the attack “premeditated murder.” Capt. Ward Boston said that he was outraged that anyone, let alone “apologists for Israel,” could call the Liberty incident a case of mistaken identity.”

      So, are the authors acting as ‘apologists for Israel’? What evidence beyond that uncovered by Adm. Moorer and Capt. Boston were you privy to? And why have other organizations such as JVP chosen to sweep this critical issue under the rug? Explanations please!

      • echinococcus
        July 14, 2017, 4:51 pm

        And why have other organizations such as JVP chosen to sweep this critical issue under the rug? Explanations please!

        Well, in the case of JVP no explanation is needed: it is not a case of “antisemitism”, ergo not their baby.

      • genesto
        July 14, 2017, 5:50 pm

        Good one, echinococcus! Lot’s of truth in that!

  2. Annie Robbins
    July 13, 2017, 5:17 pm

    Again, we’re not endorsing the conspiratorial view

    it’s baffling anyone who has ever read up on the USS liberty and listened to the testimonies of those present could fathom the attack was not intentional. seriously guys, get a grip.

    • Citizen
      July 13, 2017, 5:45 pm

      I agree; so would any readers here who have read up fully on all the evidence on the USS Liberty incident AND the cover-up by muzzling the crew & doing a quickie investigation when US customarily would have done a full-blown, lengthy congressional investigation.

      • jd65
        July 14, 2017, 12:46 am

        @ Annie & Citizen: +1

      • Misterioso
        July 14, 2017, 11:17 am

        Annie, Citizen, jd65 and yours truly!!

    • Bont Eastlake
      July 14, 2017, 7:09 am

      I feel its more important for us to clearly form a perspective on the role and objectives of the military USS Liberty was part of, before analyzing the attack.

      Its imperative that we avoid approaching this issue through a nationalist POV, or a us-vs-them perspective in order to maintain objectivity and consistency in our activism. Nationalism and settler-colonialism is wrong regardless which side partakes in it. And the US is definitely a settler-colonial establishment that uses military might to legitimize its grip on stolen land and resources.

      So essentially, we have a spat between two equally ignoble entities, both pursuing goals that are unjust and oppressive. Lets not take sides.

      • CigarGod
        July 16, 2017, 9:05 am

        A constructive comment.

    • Emory Riddle
      July 14, 2017, 9:17 am

      Of course the attack was intentional. Amazing that anyone can still cling to the view that it was likely — or even possibly — unintentional.

    • genesto
      July 14, 2017, 12:08 pm

      Thanks, Annie. The evidence that the attack was intentional is CONCLUSIVE! When are all our allies in the movement going to get on board and call for the US government investigation that all of those who died from the attack, as well as those who survived (like my friend, Joe Meadors), so desperately deserve? Is the degree of influence that the Israel lobby had, and has, in our country just too much for them to accept?

    • Eva Smagacz
      July 17, 2017, 9:43 am

      Presence or absence of government coverup is directly related to amount of time and money spent on official investigation.

      The more it stinks and the more it needs to be buried, the narrower the scope, and tighter the purse..

      10/10

  3. echinococcus
    July 13, 2017, 7:15 pm

    We could accept the view, which the Haaretz article endorses, that the attack was a mistake or “screw-up” in the fog of war

    Cannot understand how Weiss co-signs such nonsense.
    As for the “Israeli paper investigates”, what it does is spread more Ziolight propaganda and trouble the waters.

    • Citizen
      July 14, 2017, 6:00 am

      Yes, the official version of the USS Liberty story stinks to high hell like the proverbial fish rotting from the head–& the cover up lasted all the way to the unusual manner and place of memorial burial of dead crew–everything about the official narrative of what happened and how it was covered up and treated uniquely still is to this day- rotten.

  4. Bont Eastlake
    July 13, 2017, 8:09 pm

    The US and its military are imperialist forces that serve to uphold the white supremacist-capitalist hegemony. I am conflicted with this article…I am hostile to the military complex which the USS Liberty was part of but also realize it can be used to distrupt the unconditional support Israel gets from the US.

    • Citizen
      July 14, 2017, 6:04 am

      Obviously, there’s an internal priority ranking in the hegemonic forces you assert.
      Remember the Night of the Long Knives?

      • Bont Eastlake
        July 14, 2017, 9:29 am

        The goal is always the same, which is to uproot and dismantle all oppressive institutions and power systems. When people are subjected to oppression and injustice, it really doesnt matter which side actually does it…only how to stop it and hold the oppressors accountable for their actions.

        But in the case of Israel and USA, it becomes difficult for the victims of each country to distinguish which side should they fight against due to the shared characteristics of both.

      • Citizen
        July 16, 2017, 4:43 pm

        Well, yes, the world was worse off, no matter whether Hitler won, or the brownshirt’s leader. USS Liberty as part of US MIC, or Israeli air force?

  5. JLewisDickerson
    July 13, 2017, 8:35 pm

    RE: Adm. Thomas Moorer called the attack “pre-meditated murder.” Capt. Ward Boston said that he was outraged that anyone, let alone “apologists for Israel,” could call the Liberty incident a case of mistaken identity. ~ Les Jordan’s letter to the Register-Guard in Eugene, Oregon

    MY SNARKCASM: Don’t you just love the smell of Napalm™ in the morning?!?! Several survivors of the attack on the USS Liberty said the distinctive smell of napalm was unmistakeable during and after the attack.
    Why would the Israelis have used napalm? I can’t even begin to fathom an innocent explanation.

    Napalm
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm

    [EXCERPTS] Napalm is a flammable liquid used in warfare. It is a mixture of a gelling agent and either gasoline (petrol) or a similar fuel. It was initially used as an incendiary device against buildings and later primarily as an anti-personnel weapon, as it sticks to skin and causes severe burns when on fire. Napalm was developed in 1942 in a secret laboratory at Harvard University by a team led by chemist Louis Fieser.[1] . . .

    Development

    . . . “The production of napalm was first entrusted to Nuodex Products, and by the middle of April 1942 they had developed a brown, dry powder that was not sticky by itself, but when mixed with gasoline turned into an extremely sticky and inflammable substance.” One of Fieser’s colleagues suggested adding phosphorus to the mix which increased the “ability to penetrate deeply…into the musculature, where it would continue to burn day after day.”[5]

    On 4 July 1942, the first test occurred on the football field near the Harvard Business School.[5] . . .

    . . . From 1965 to 1969, the Dow Chemical Company manufactured napalm B for the American armed forces.[8] After news reports of napalm B’s deadly and disfiguring effects were published, Dow Chemical experienced boycotts of its products, and its recruiters for new chemists, chemical engineers, etc., graduating from college were subject to campus boycotts. The management of the company decided that its “first obligation was the government.” Meanwhile, napalm B became a symbol for the Vietnam War.[9] . . .

    Effects on people

    “Napalm is the most terrible pain you can imagine,” said Kim Phúc, a napalm bombing survivor known from a famous Vietnam War photograph. “Water boils at 100 degrees Celsius (212°F). Napalm generates temperatures of 800 to 1,200 degrees Celsius (1,500–2,200°F).”[20]

    When used as a part of an incendiary weapon, napalm can cause severe burns (ranging from superficial to subdermal), asphyxiation, unconsciousness, and death. . .

    The Smell of Napalm In the Morning – Apocalypse Now (4/8) Movie CLIP (1979) HD

    • Marnie
      July 13, 2017, 11:36 pm

      “Why would the Israelis have used napalm? I can’t even begin to fathom an innocent explanation.”

      Like squirrels gathering seeds for the winter, the israelis probably wanted to test it out on their best buddies first, before possibly trying it out on a civilian population? Anyway, nothing to see here according to MK “Dr” Michael Oren of the Kahlua party. His investigative reporting concludes no harm no foul by the zionist state – to suggest otherwise is positively antisemantic.

  6. thehawk
    July 13, 2017, 10:56 pm

    re: The US LIberty was one of a class of research vessels run by the US Naval Oceanographic office formerly located in Suitland MD. These vessels scoured the oceans collecting oceanographic data. They had a CIA component that collected electronic info. The CIA picked up communications from Israel’s headquarters to field officers ordering them to execute 7000+ Egyptian prisoners. The CIA made several attempts to send aircraft to collect photos verifying the deaths. But Dayan ordered the planes to be attacked and then the attack on the Liberty. Please pass this on to the researchers you quote. The Truth will Win Out!! Peace. thehawk

    • Mooser
      July 14, 2017, 12:52 pm

      ” The CIA picked up communications from Israel’s headquarters to field officers ordering them to execute 7000+ Egyptian prisoners. The CIA made several attempts to send aircraft to collect photos verifying the deaths”

      Oh my. I hope the Israelis did not carry out this grisly and criminal plan. Has anybody heard from those “7000+ Egyptian prisoners” since then?

      • RoHa
        July 14, 2017, 7:14 pm

        C’mon, Mooser. Those prisoners were just Arabs. Who’s going to care?

      • Mooser
        July 15, 2017, 1:05 pm

        “Who’s going to care?”

        Me and “thehawk” and the CIA, that’s who. Or “whom” if that suits you better.

      • Citizen
        July 16, 2017, 4:48 pm

        Yes, that is one factual context to supply motive for Israel’s intentional attack on the USS Liberty. Another one is Israel’s takeover of the Golan Heights at the time. As a side note: it appears Johnson didn’t want to make an issue of Israel’s attack because he was losing politically big time with his support of the Vietnam War and the USS Liberty cover up he traded for more support or at least, less protest, from the Jewish portion of the US government and main media at the time.

  7. yonah fredman
    July 14, 2017, 12:40 am

    Here’s my take on the USS Liberty.

    1. It was a sad day for the US and Israel and American Jews.

    2. There seems to be a case to be made that the Israeli navy attacked without knowledge of the American identity of the boat and that they were trigger happy, because the war had passed them by without participating.

    3. The behavior of the Israeli air force considering the clear vision of the American flag seems to indicate a deliberate attack. The motive for such an attack has yet to be offered. (we were sad witnesses to norm finkelstein telling us that the jews had a hard on to show the goyim who was boss. this is the level of speculation that we are dealing with here.)

    4. why was the liberty ordered to leave the vicinity and why had it defied its orders? is there some connection between the israeli attack and the liberty’s defiance of its orders?

    • Keith
      July 14, 2017, 9:49 am

      YONAH FREDMAN- “4. why was the liberty ordered to leave the vicinity and why had it defied its orders? is there some connection between the israeli attack and the liberty’s defiance of its orders?”

      The Liberty didn’t “defy” the orders, Admiral McCain didn’t forward the orders, probably with LBJ’s knowledge and approval. Later, during the cover-up, they claimed equipment failure. Since the Liberty was initially denied an armed escort, then ordered away, it suggests something changed. I suspect that Dayan sent a back channel communication telling the US to move the Liberty or he would sink it, just like he later told the US that he would shoot down US reconnaissance planes and the flights were halted. During the attack on the Liberty, there was a US reconnaissance plane which was fired upon, but missed. Another “mistake” during the “fog of war”? Get serious. Dayan ordered the attack, probably to assert Israel’s independence from US control. Your apologetics for Dayan’s/Israel’s behavior indicates your strong bias, nothing else.

      • yonah fredman
        July 14, 2017, 10:57 am

        Keith- Let me be sure I’m getting this straight. Dayan told LBJ or someone high up, Move the ship, I’m fighting a war here. And Lbj issued a command to move the ship, and that command was not communicated by someone down the chain of command and then Dayan said, well, you won’t move it. I’ll show you what a war zone really means.
        Is this the essence of your conclusion.
        i am not clear why lbj’s command was sabotaged down the chain of command. could you clarify that for me, a nonexpert, who does not know the name mccain.

      • Mooser
        July 14, 2017, 12:40 pm

        “Here’s my take on the USS Liberty.”

        “yonah”, just add it all up, and send the Pentagon the bill. Fuel for the planes, armament, overtime pay for the ground crews, you name it.

      • Keith
        July 14, 2017, 2:26 pm

        YONAH FREMAN- “Lbj issued a command to move the ship….”

        The Joint Chiefs issued the order to move the ship, a significant departure from plans. The order went to Admiral McCain. The order was not forwarded to the Liberty. The after the fact excuse was equipment failure, an implausible scenario. I strongly suspect that Dayan made a threat to sink the ship if not moved. The Joint Chiefs decided to back down. McCain decided to call Dayan’s bluff, I assume with LBJ’s approval. Dayan wasn’t bluffing. When Dayan later threatened to shoot down US reconnaissance planes the flights were halted. They now knew he meant it. The attack was vicious. Radio communications were jammed, life rafts destroyed. Dayan/Israel was trying to sink the ship and kill everyone on board. His philosophy was “Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.” The first Israeli pilot ordered to attack the Liberty was Evan Toni. Since the ship was OBVIOUSLY an American electronic surveillance ship, he refused and returned to base. He was arrested for insubordination. You are having difficulty seeing the obvious because you don’t want to acknowledge the obvious. I have gone over this several times in clear fashion. As far as my conjecture regarding Dayan’s threat, etc., the plain fact is that Israel intentionally attacked an obviously American ship in an extraordinarily vicious and prolonged fashion, including strafing the life rafts, a war crime. Stop pretending befuddlement.

      • John O
        July 14, 2017, 2:36 pm

        @yonah fredman

        “i am not clear why lbj’s command was sabotaged down the chain of command. could you clarify that for me, a nonexpert, who does not know the name mccain.”

        Irrelevant. What is indisputable is (i) at some point during the repeated attacks, the Israeli chain of command knew that the ship was American; (ii) the Israelis continued to attack it after they knew that.

    • Misterioso
      July 14, 2017, 12:34 pm

      @yonah fredman

      Nonsense. Whatever the reason, Israel’s massive assault against the Liberty was deliberate.
      Do some serious research!!!

      • inbound39
        July 16, 2017, 7:25 pm

        Here is my take on it. I am a former highly qualified member of the Operations Room on an American built Adams class DDG. The American equivalent of an operations room is the CIC or the Combat Information Center. Any investigation would focus on examining the vessel. Look at the Bridge of the Liberty and the superstructure surrounding it. Burnt out and seriously hit. Behind the bridge is the CIC, Below that is the Radio Center or Radcen. The hit is and can be no more than deliberate,designed to take out the eyes and ears of the ship and to destroy its ability to steer and coordinate its responses to the attack. From the time that damage occurred the ship was for all intents a sitting duck. Lastly it was clearly marked as an American vessel. No misunderstanding…no mistake made….the attack can be no more or less than deliberate. The aircraft involved flew deliberate attack profiles and consciously committed on release of their ordnance over the ship to destroy those areas of the ship they hit. No mistake…no misunderstanding….plenty of time to abort unless they were either blind or intent on doing harm.

    • James Canning
      July 14, 2017, 12:56 pm

      Yonah, Israeli planes flew over the USS Liberty hours before the deliberate attack by Israeli jets was launched.

  8. Jackdaw
    July 14, 2017, 1:30 am

    The author of the book is a conspiracy theorist. Great.

    • Talkback
      July 14, 2017, 12:39 pm

      Another ad hominem fallacy, even better.

    • Mooser
      July 14, 2017, 1:54 pm

      “The author of the book is a conspiracy theorist. Great.”

      Capt. “Boris” is shocked, shocked to discover that speech is going on here!

    • DaBakr
      July 14, 2017, 11:54 pm

      @balkback,

      Lol. “Conspiracy theorist” is now an “ad hominem” attack on MW yet everybody that hates zionists/israelis and Jews are writing over and over that there is some kind of conspiracy that took place between the US and Israelis but maybe, their not entirely positive exactly what conspiracy took place so some won’t ‘commit’ . But.’conspiracy nuts’?. Not us.

      • Talkback
        July 15, 2017, 2:32 pm

        DeBacle: “Lol. “Conspiracy theorist” is now an “ad hominem” attack on MW …”

        It is an adhominem attack to attack someone personally instead of refuting his arguments. That’s what you are trying to do. You want do discredit the author.

        Dabacle: “yet everybody that hates zionists/israelis and Jews are writing over and over that there is some kind of conspiracy that took place between the US and Israelis but maybe, their not entirely positive exactly what conspiracy took place so some won’t ‘commit’.

        You see, another adhominem attack. You are trying to discret anybody as hating zionist/Israselis and Jews who thinks that the the US and Israel were conspiring.

        Dabacle: “But.’conspiracy nuts’?. Not us.”

        And that’s the proof. Now you openly use “conspiracy nuts”. As if there have never been two people or two parties conspiring in the history of mankind. But no, you are not “nuts”, right?

    • CigarGod
      July 16, 2017, 9:17 am

      The average person reads 200 wpm…and comprehends 60%.
      The average person doesn’t know what a logical fallacy is yet weaves them into their 60% anyway.

  9. Paranam Kid
    July 14, 2017, 3:18 am

    2 points:

    * I don’t understand why Mondoweiss refuses to take a position, when on many, if not all other, issues Mondoweiss always takes a position. What is the real reason Mondoweiss does not take position here? I think you owe it to your readers to give a proper, transparent explanation, even if that means upsetting certain readers, or admitting & explaining that in certain matters you have to go against your grain. But for heaven’s sake, don’t leave it dangling.

    * You end by saying “Credit Haaretz with the courage to raise the question ….”
    Why should we credit Haaretz for “raising” a question when it only concludes what suits the US-israel narrative? Haaretz has NOT contributed anything new to the discussion, only its “authoritative” voice to persuade doubters that it really was a mistake. So the only reason Haaretz “raised” the question was help bury the subject. I find your conclusion, if not exhortation, that Haaretz should credited disingenuous.

    I must say, this article makes me wonder about the real objectives of Mondoweiss. It is unlike your normal articles, and I just cannot understand the reasons.

    • Bont Eastlake
      July 14, 2017, 11:36 pm

      Phil or any of other editors of MW do not owe you shit. This is their space, they get absolute authority on what they decide to publish or abstain from.

      The entitlement of some people is astounding, seriously. The way you are pushing Phil to divulge his inner thoughts, you would think he is married to you or something. Back off and learn some respect.

      • Mooser
        July 15, 2017, 1:28 pm

        ” Back off and learn some respect.”

        “Bont”, coming back with a new user-name after being banned several times is not “respect”.

      • Bont Eastlake
        July 15, 2017, 8:10 pm

        Mooser,

        What are you talking about and what relevence does it have to the topic at hand?

        MW doesn’t claim to represent the interests of every registered member so I don’t see why we have to push Phil into making some form of self-incriminating statement to please us. I view it as a privilege to be able to access this site, its articles and the many discussions that take place here. I dont agree with many but thats my problem, not Phils or anyone elses.

      • CigarGod
        July 16, 2017, 9:21 am

        There are no sacred cows, Bont.
        When you bow to one, you bow to them all.

      • Mooser
        July 16, 2017, 1:17 pm

        ” I view it as a privilege to be able to access this site”

        Oh, I can see that, it shows in your every iteration.

      • Citizen
        July 16, 2017, 5:14 pm

        I’ve been with MW almost since its inception, but I find it troubling, how Phil glosses over all the evidence it was an intentional attack, not mere gross negligence on the part of Israeli forces. Further, the muzzling of the crew, the uncustomary short-shrift official investigation, ditto the eventual uncustomary memorial recognition to the killed crew.

    • DaBakr
      July 15, 2017, 12:00 am

      @pk

      If you want to explore the “real” intention behind mondoweiss and phill you might want to start with the knights templar, the rosicructions and then the illuminati. That’s a good start. Take the rest of your cues from there. Good luck. Your one of the most perceptive commenters that’s come along MW inn a long time. Get to know the guy moos . He’ll fill you in on the rest.

      • Mooser
        July 15, 2017, 1:32 pm

        “If you want to explore the “real” intention behind mondoweiss and phill you might want to start with the knights templar, the rosicructions and then the illuminati.”

        DaBakr, you are such a typical Jewsuit.

      • LHunter
        July 15, 2017, 10:34 pm

        Ignore the overwhelming facts and testimony that clearly put the blame on israel as having diberately bombed the USS Liberty and focus imstead on whether a flag was spotted at Mach 1 – do you really think you are convincing anyone? Or just trying to muddy the waters? Either way, you are much too simple minded and disingenuous to have any impact here – peddle your crap to your Zionist flunkies for comfort.

      • CigarGod
        July 16, 2017, 9:33 am

        Dabakr,
        Once or twice a year ranchers load up the cows “that just ain’t right” and they are taken to auction. They can be mangy, have anxious behaviors, and not take good care of their calves. No one wants that strain in their herd. The big buyers for those lots are the Campbell’s Soup and McDonalds guys.
        I spot and cut these cows out for a living.
        Just thought you’d like to know where you stand.

    • LHunter
      July 16, 2017, 2:58 pm

      I’d like to know if Phil is unsure about whether the attack was deliberate or not and if so why – I’d like to know because I respect his opinion and would hope to gain some insight or information I have missed – an angle that had escaped me and others.

      I myself see little evidence to suggest that this was merely a mistake – On the one side you have proven criminal organizations (USA and Israel governments) spewing an unconvincing story of mistaken identity followed by non-disclosure and on the other side you have the detailed testimonies of the victims, the disclosure by insiders and the well researched findings of third party investigators – why would the opinion of this latter group be stigmatized as conspiratorial?

      What I’d like to know more about is what people think or have found out about the motive(s) behind the attack on the USS Liberty.

      • Citizen
        July 16, 2017, 5:30 pm

        Yes, I agree, LHunter. Phil is ducking this issue. He’s perfectly capable of researching all the evidence and assessing it, as he does on so many other subjects related to US-Israeli relationships. Where does Phil Weiss stand on the USS Liberty attack?

      • inbound39
        July 16, 2017, 7:51 pm

        The investigation of the attack was incompetent and ignorant and ignored that which sat clearly before their eyes….the damaged vessel. And the attack procedures of aircraft of that era.

      • Mooser
        July 17, 2017, 10:57 am

        “Where does Phil Weiss stand on the USS Liberty attack?”

        Isn’t it obvious? Phil made sure he was 6,000 miles away and in his teens when it happened.

  10. RoHa
    July 14, 2017, 3:29 am

    “we’re not endorsing the conspiratorial view”

    Why not? Is it false?

    • Bont Eastlake
      July 14, 2017, 11:39 pm

      Such views are tied to a malicious agenda, even if they do utilize the truth.

      • RoHa
        July 16, 2017, 6:25 am

        Piffle. What is this malicious agenda?

      • Bont Eastlake
        July 16, 2017, 9:46 am

        Legitimizing the roles and actions of the US military, which is an institution built to defend white supremacy and white settler-colonialism on Native American/Hawaiian/Samoan/Puerto-Rican land.

      • echinococcus
        July 16, 2017, 2:41 pm

        RoHa,

        You gone and done it again. He didn’t need much encouragement as it is. As if we don’t hear it enough.
        Repeat after me: “Don’t look here, look there!”

      • RoHa
        July 16, 2017, 11:32 pm

        @Bont

        Piffle again.

      • RoHa
        July 16, 2017, 11:33 pm

        @ echinococcus

        Sorry.

      • Mooser
        July 17, 2017, 11:00 am

        “Legitimizing the roles and actions of the US military, which is an institution built to defend white supremacy and white settler-colonialism on Native American/Hawaiian/Samoan/Puerto-Rican land”

        You said it, “Bont”! When Israel attacked the USS Liberty, Israel was fighting for the rights of Native Americans/Hawaiians/Samoans/and Puerto-Ricans everywhere!

  11. Paranam Kid
    July 14, 2017, 4:47 am

    I always had my doubts about the real “liberal” nature of Haaretz; the Electronic Intifada’s David Cronin nailed it – see https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/david-cronin/when-haaretz-explains-israels-crimes.

    • Citizen
      July 16, 2017, 5:44 pm

      More depressing is Haaretz informs the Americans more objectively about anything re Israel than their own press. Further, how many Americans read Haaretz? LOL

  12. HHM
    July 14, 2017, 10:12 am

    Les Jordan’s Register Guard letter was in support of Jack Dresser’s Register Guard guest opinion on the USS Liberty published on June 8. http://registerguard.com/rg/opinion/35650808-78/only-middle-east-nation-to-attack-u.s.-israel.csp

  13. Donald Johnson
    July 14, 2017, 11:18 am

    Pat Lang saw the NSA transcripts–

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2017/07/httpwwwhaaretzcomus-news1800584.html

    That is some fog. Maybe in the heat of battle the Israelis were confused and thought the US was an Arab country.

    Seriously, I have never immersed myself in this subject and haven’t read, for example, Oren’s book and so do not know how he gets around this sort of thing. But it sure looks like the US government was scared of a serious investigation. And the arguments of Oren and Segev as cited in the Haaretz piece boil down to questioning the motive and claiming that the top Israelis couldn’t have been that crazy. Well, if they were that crazy, they got away with it.

    Here is a summary at Ennes’s site–

    http://www.gtr5.com/summary_of_events.htm

  14. James Canning
    July 14, 2017, 12:52 pm

    Great piece. I found it grimly fascinating, and totally expected, that US news media tried to ignore entirely the 50th anniversary of Israel’s INTENTIONAL attack on the USS Liberty.

    • Bont Eastlake
      July 14, 2017, 11:43 pm

      Why do you emphasize intentional? It seems like you are trying to raise a nationalist sentiment out of this affair. Whats your game here?

      • James Canning
        July 15, 2017, 1:22 pm

        @Bont Eastlake Is it not obvious that the key fact of the matter, is that the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was INTENTIONAL? And why would Lyndon Johnson prevent US jets from intervening in the intentional slaughter of US sailors by Israel?

      • Bont Eastlake
        July 15, 2017, 11:58 pm

        What does it matter? I don’t see this level of hysterics when Israel routinely attacks fishing boats off Gaza or when it raided the Turkish aid ship heading to Gaza.

        The exclusive outrage directed at Israel when it attacks the US military is a strong sign of pro-Americanism, which means you are not really interested in justice and universal law.

      • CigarGod
        July 16, 2017, 9:42 am

        I was wrong. I thought you had good reasoning skills.
        Focusing on one topic at a time is not “exclusive outrage.”

        Gotta throw you back in, little fella…to grow a few more inches.

      • Mooser
        July 16, 2017, 1:29 pm

        “What does it matter?…/… justice and universal law.”

        “Bont Eastlake”, you could give Irina Kazakova good competition.

      • Citizen
        July 17, 2017, 9:14 am

        @ Bont Eastlake
        Considering the US-Israel “special relationship” in all its myriad of forms, whether the attack was intentional or gross negligence is the core issue. Geez, are you that ignorant, or just very stupid?

      • Bont Eastlake
        July 17, 2017, 11:31 am

        So are you implying because Israel went and attacked, relatively speaking, an insignificant piece of US military equipment decades ago this “special relations” would be invalidated?

        The only reason people bring up this BS is to try to turn what is a human rights and international law issue into a nationalist issue.

        In doing so they always frame the US as the good guy being taken for a ride by mean little Israel.

  15. Talkback
    July 14, 2017, 1:14 pm

    Maybe, just maybe Israelis couldn’t identify that the Liberty was a US ship, because their view was blocked by the big American flag which some crewmen hoisted.

  16. lonely rico
    July 14, 2017, 2:27 pm

    Excerpts from an article in Counterpunch in 2007, by WARD BOSTON who served as chief counsel to the Navy’s Court of Inquiry into the attack on USS Liberty.

    [Head of the Court of Inquiry Rear Admiral Isaac C.] Kidd and I were given only one week to gather evidence for the Navy’s official investigation, though we both estimated that a proper Court of Inquiry would take at least six months.

    We boarded the crippled ship at sea and interviewed survivors. The evidence was clear. We both believed with certainty that this attack was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew.

    I am outraged at the efforts of Israel’s apologists to claim this attack was a case of “mistaken identity.”

    … the Court of Inquiry transcript that has been released to the public is not the same one that I certified and sent to Washington.

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2007/06/09/searching-for-the-truth-about-the-uss-liberty/

  17. lonely rico
    July 14, 2017, 2:40 pm

    See also BBC documentary “USS Liberty: Dead In The Water” (2002)

  18. Kat
    July 14, 2017, 3:47 pm

    “conspiracy theories about the attack still abound”

    It’s quite surprising to see this kind of language being used on Mondoweiss. The cover-up of the Liberty attack by Israeli and U.S. officials is well-documented. The U.S. Naval Institute recently published an article in Naval History Magazine about it for the 50th anniversary of the attack: http://usslibertyveterans.org/files/USNI%20Naval%20History%20Article%20June%202017.pdf

    Yet American media and institutions ignore and silence USS Liberty survivors seeking recognition, accountability, and justice. For more on this, see “Aid And Comfort To The Enemy: American Legion Honchos Betray Liberty Veterans” (http://ifamericaknew.org/us_ints/legion.html) and “American Media Miss the Boat: For USA Today, Freedom of the Press Means the Right to Report It Wrong” (http://ifamericaknew.org/media/misslib.html).

  19. friendofpalestine
    July 14, 2017, 4:35 pm

    Amazed that they are still questioning whether the attack was deliberate.
    The pilot of one of the planes that had to bomb the Liberty has long, long ago recounted how he said, “but sir, this is an American ship” and the reply was that he had his orders and had to bomb it anyway. Three documentaries on this subject can be found on this website:

    http://14friendsofpalestine.org

    In addition, there are two excellent booklets been written:

    Aid And Comfort To The Enemy: American Legion Honchos Betray Liberty Veterans
    This piece by Alison Weir outlines the ways that the higher ups at the American Legion have turned their backs on USS Liberty survivors

    American Media Miss The Boat
    An article demonstrating the failure of the American media to report on the tragic attack on the USS Liberty. By Alison Weir. Read Online | Download: Full-Bleed Color | Black & White

    • Bont Eastlake
      July 14, 2017, 11:49 pm

      Alison Weir is a white nativist-nationalist who has been discredited within much of the pro-Palestinian activism space. Her work doesn’t carry much weight here, rightly so considering her agenda-laden perspective on everything tied to Israel-US relations.

      • jd65
        July 15, 2017, 4:12 pm

        Hey Bont. Can you give us your definition of “white nativist-nationalist?” Thanks…

      • Bont Eastlake
        July 15, 2017, 11:35 pm

        Jd65,

        It is a set of beliefs that fundamentally supports the establishment and continued existance of the white-supremacist American state as it was set up by the European settler-colonialist on Turtle Island.

        White nativist nationalists are at best, indifferent to the historical and present injustices perpetuated in the formation and existence of the American state or at worst, explicitly support them.

        White nativist nationalists generally don’t care about principles of justice and liberty, they only care about losing their place in the hierarchy of oppressors. Hence, they often rally against Israel whilst at the same time support a strong US military, border control, law enforcement and the police as well as capitalism in general.

      • CigarGod
        July 16, 2017, 9:51 am

        Ad hominem.
        You like this kind of fallacy.

      • jd65
        July 16, 2017, 8:09 pm

        Thanks for the response, Bont.

        “[White nativist-nationalist] is a set of beliefs that fundamentally supports the establishment and continued existance of the white-supremacist American state as it was set up by the European settler-colonialist on Turtle Island.”

        I guess that’s not too bad a definition. I don’t agree that Alison fits this definition. Can you give us some specific examples? Keep in mind that I don’t buy the argument that her having done interviews with folks who are believed to be white supremacists (or are actually racists…) so that she could reach a wide audience on the topic of Palestine shows that she, herself, is also racist. The guilt by association game has been exhausted, in my opinion.

        “White nativist nationalists are at best, indifferent to the historical and present injustices perpetuated in the formation and existence of the American state or at worst, explicitly support them.”

        I’m not so sure I buy that being indifferent would make someone a “nationalist.” But, again, I would say that your assertion that actively supporting American/United States injustices (perpetual war, mass incarceration, etc…) is not too bad as part of a definition of “white nativist nationalist.” And again, I don’t agree that Alison fits this definition. In terms of her work through IAK, I believe her to be doing the exact opposite. Could you give us some examples of Alison’s active support of American/United States’ injustices?

        “White nativist nationalists generally don’t care about principles of justice and liberty, they only care about losing their place in the hierarchy of oppressors.”

        Plainly none of us are inside Alison’s head, so speculation on whether she’s concerned with “losing her place in the hierarchy…” is silly. As for whether she cares about “principles of justice and liberty”… She does. But what those words/concepts/ideals mean is endlessly debatable, and of course, depends on one’s perspective and place. I think she cares deeply about justice and “liberty.” You don’t. Oh well.

        “Hence, they often rally against Israel whilst at the same time support a strong US military, border control, law enforcement and the police as well as capitalism in general.

        A few things here… “Rallying against Israel.” I have no problem with that. I personally believe that Israel is an extremely immoral, unjust and cruel “country/regime” and basically deserves any rally against it that occurs. They’re killing lots of human beings and creating daily suffering for a huge number of people who don’t deserve it. So since Alison may rally against it, I have no problem there. You do. Oh well. As far as “…support[ing] a strong US military, border control, law enforcement and the police…” Those issues get too thorny to get into the minutiae here. If you’ve got a specific example of something Alison supports as related to those issues, give us/me a link and I’d be interested. Lastly, capitalism. I know nothing of Alison’s attitudes toward it. However, if you’re saying that she supports capitalism, and you have a problem with that because you’re under the illusion that Israel is some kind of socialist/communist utopia, I’ve got some land in Florida I’d like to sell you…

      • Bont Eastlake
        July 16, 2017, 9:53 pm

        Jd65,

        I am not an anti-Israel activist, and I am sure MW do not view themselves as such too. I am pro-social justice and pro-liberty for all oppressed peoples because I know unless everyone is free, no one is.

        In the field of social justice, ambiguity and duplicity is not a welcomed trait. Im not saying the world is black and white, it definitely isnt. But that doesnt mean we just accept it and pretend like the various shades of grey is the same as white.

        Alison Weir do not present herself as a nationalist, or a pro-US imperalist but I still perceive her as such because what she choose to not say, not fight for, not call out. She do not acknowledge the most fundamental idea that bounds all activists for justice…intersectionality. Oppression is not discreet state of being, that can be localized to a place or to a person…it is a continuous spectrum that exists within all human societies. Her being a white American woman, should be cognizant of the multitudes of injustice and evil that has been perpetrated by the American state in her name. If she isn’t concious of her own oppressive role, what gives her the right to call out others?

      • jd65
        July 17, 2017, 3:23 am

        “Alison Weir do not present herself as a nationalist, or a pro-US imperalist but I still perceive her as such because what she choose to not say[.]”

        Oh, I see.

      • echinococcus
        July 17, 2017, 11:42 am

        Eastlake,

        I’m sure the con tí no of intussusceptionality reserves a special place of honor to people who, like you or your more illustrious predecessors the JDL leaders, have as main objective the destruction of effective antizionists –not based on any demonstrable action but your own so nicely described “perception”.

        In intersexionality it is now clear that all secateurs are equal but the tribal sect is more equal.

      • echinococcus
        July 17, 2017, 12:32 pm

        Edit / correcting my most recent post addressed to Eastlake:

        Not “JDL”, I didn’t intend to offend. I meant JVP.

  20. pianoteacher
    July 14, 2017, 6:24 pm

    The question here is not, was the attack on the USS Liberty a mistake? It has been abundantly proved that the Israelis knew it was an American ship and attacked it deliberately. The Israelis themselves have now admitted it.

    Virtually everyone commenting above knows the attack on the American ship was done knowingly by Israel.

    The real question for all of us on this forum is, why are Phil Weiss and James North even attempting to put doubt in anyone’s mind as to whether it was deliberate or an act of mistaken identity.
    The truth is out there, 100%. Why are they clutching at straws (the straws of possible doubt) that have long since evaporated?

    Why are they so afraid of the American public knowing that yes, the Israelis attacked an American ship, killing 34 servicemen and wounding 174, and yes, they did it on purpose. There is absolutely no doubt about that whatsoever.

    • echinococcus
      July 14, 2017, 9:47 pm

      Piano Teacher,

      The real question for all of us on this forum is, why are Phil Weiss and James North even attempting to put doubt in anyone’s mind as to whether it was deliberate or an act of mistaken identity.
      The truth is out there, 100%. Why are they clutching at straws (the straws of possible doubt) that have long since evaporated?

      Well said.

      Here is Phil’s opportunity to explain.

      • Bont Eastlake
        July 15, 2017, 12:03 am

        Echinocus,

        When analyzing historical events, objectivity is frankly bullshit and everything is relative to which side you are on.

        In this case, it is unfair to expect Phil to explain his views because both sides are problematic, so say the least. On one hand we have a group that is directly responsible for immeasurable death and destruction across all continents, since its inception til today and on the other we have Israel.

      • echinococcus
        July 15, 2017, 12:47 pm

        Eastlake,

        I’m still trying to decide if you really are victim of a serious cognitive defect (see Buridan’s ass) or a Zionist disrupter. This kind of messages aren’t helpful.

      • pianoteacher
        July 15, 2017, 5:41 pm

        @echinococcus: Not holding my breath! But have been forced to come to the conclusion that his desire to suppress the truth about the Liberty attack must be because he is an apologist for Israel.
        How disappointing.

      • echinococcus
        July 15, 2017, 11:35 pm

        Piano Teacher,

        Let’s nonetheless invite Weiss to explain (North is of no interest.) He has shown some positive change from his initial stance; some of his steps were noticeable.

    • Bont Eastlake
      July 15, 2017, 11:35 pm

      Jd65,

      It is a set of beliefs that fundamentally supports the establishment and continued existance of the white-supremacist American state as it was set up by the European settler-colonialist on Turtle Island.

      White nativist nationalists are at best, indifferent to the historical and present injustices perpetuated in the formation and existence of the American state or at worst, explicitly support them.

      White nativist nationalists generally don’t care about principles of justice and liberty, they only care about losing their place in the hierarchy of oppressors. Hence, they often rally against Israel whilst at the same time support a strong US military, border control, law enforcement and the police as well as capitalism in general.

  21. Neil Schipper
    July 14, 2017, 6:52 pm

    The lesson of the USS Liberty is one that should be studied carefully by other states: if you find yourself in a hot war, and you are allied with a global superpower, and that superpower is providing you diplomatic cover and supplying you with needed weaponry, then: identify a major nearby asset of theirs, and bomb the fuck out of it.

    And make sure not to kill only “grunts”; also kill highly trained telecom and field intel people.

    And make sure to not finish the job, but leave badly wounded survivors and witnesses — the more bitterness and hostility the better. You can rely on the survivors and the families of the dead — an unusually smart and tough-minded demographic with deep connections to the superpower’s military class — to shrug off a whitewash.

    If you can pull this off, then you get a half-century (and counting) of diplomatic and military support.

    Probably this very moment, Syria is following a plan of similar deviousness and cunning, and bombing the fuck out of Russian-supplied, Russian-manned command and control infrastructure.

  22. DaBakr
    July 14, 2017, 10:30 pm

    Since my other comment was censored ( I don’t think for any grounds other then I must have used some terms the mods felt out of context)
    . But my simpler opinion is simply: if the liberty incident is finally proven to land on the side of not being as accidental as claimed ,(which is highly unlikely considering how much intelligence is out from both nations which are both conflicting, in agreement and ambiguous to every reach a solid conclusion) but if that were possible, what would it change except the metal scoreboard for dedicated Zionist/Israel/Jew haters? There have been many other accidents due to the fog of war as well add other incidents that may have been more reckless but we’re not fully exposed for military strategic reasons. The USS liberty is just one of a very tightly packed list of a dozen or so incidents committed by Israel that were exposed as operations. They hardly ever vary and consist of:
    King David hotel/ begin
    The Lavon affair
    The highly disputed deir Hardin incident
    The USS liberty
    And, along with a few other notable failures there are the totally concocted incidents like

    The Dura shooting
    Israel poisoning Arafat
    And then incidents that the world condemned in public but secretly(or not so secretly) rejoiced at like:

    Saddam nuclear reactor
    Assads Korean/iranian built reactor and the world will never know had the Israelis been given US support to take out Iran’s program in the mountains rather then appease them since they are now working with North Korea, and the Khan network to build up capability for instant warheads I 9yrs. But MW commenters seem to prefer this scenario I the basis that anything that’s bad for Israel is great for them. Whether Iran mullah and his IRG are as rational as Obama believed remains to be seen. They obviously(and from their pov, naturally want an arch from tehran to Lebanon) But if the purpose is to investigate a war between its proxy and Israel the outcome would be at the least, incredibly bleak, probably worse then Syria and completely unpredictable as Israel has quiet military allies all over the globe and is not just dependent on their US to fight the Persian/shi’ia forces.

    • DaBakr
      July 14, 2017, 11:44 pm

      Well, I can can’t return to see this post eviscerated by the top cult members here. The edumacated ones. But I’ll return in a while to check, (sorry moo, I know how bad you wanted me to give up scrounging around on anti Israel hate sites because I am not allowed on pro zionist sites, or so you imagine). I may not even disagree with as much as you assume here. I just think I understand where the Palestinians and their Arab allies are coming from since the 1920s, then ’48 and so on. But feel free to tell me how little I know. After all, most here think Im some type of paid hasbarist (like Roger Waters is a professional Palestinian hasbarist who is paid plenty from the PA and bds orgs. and their Madison ave PR firms)

      • Mooser
        July 15, 2017, 1:23 pm

        “DaBakr”,there’s Yiddish phrase which perfectly describes your comments: lorem ipsum

      • John O
        July 15, 2017, 2:55 pm

        @mooser

        Stop it – you almost made me snort my wine rather than sip it!

      • Talkback
        July 16, 2017, 4:21 am

        DeBacle: “sorry moo, I know how bad you wanted me to give up scrounging around on anti Israel hate sites …”

        Hate site? Why should anybody hate what Jews do to Nonjews in hist. Palestine? I’m sure that peverse supremacist sadists love it. Don’t you?

    • Donald Johnson
      July 15, 2017, 10:57 am

      The Dura shooting. Almost forgot about that. The Israel side thought it important to try to disprove that because it was or seemed to be ( I would have to reread a lot to take a side) a filmed example of Israelis shooting at a child. From a PR standpoint it was a disaster, as Israel still tried to keep people in the US believing the purity of arms myth.

      That ship has sailed. We’ve had a couple of slaughters in Gaza, one in Lebanon and civilians being shot on numerous occasions. Anyone who thinks Israel doesn’t commit war crimes as a matter of policy is deluded.

      Speaking of ships, one thing that deserves more notice in the arguments over the Liberty is the machine gunning of the life rafts. No one on that ship was going to be allowed to survive even if they tried to abandon ship. Even if you think the Israelis thought it was an Egyptian ship that little detail is yet another blow to the purity of arms myth. It’s not an uncommon sort of war crime — I remember reading similar things going on in the Pacific War in WW2– but it ought to embarrass all the myth makers about how wonderful the Israeli military is. If they were murdering supposed Egyptian sailors then they were probably murdering captured Egyptian soldiers. If they knew it was American it’s hard to imagine them admitting it even if they had a plausible scapegoat somewhere in the chain of command.

  23. JosephA
    July 15, 2017, 1:58 am

    I have to say, I wondered the same thing when reading this article. It’s one thing to try hard to project a journalistic neutrality. However, when the facts have presented themselves, the journalist must not be afraid to share the truth. Case-in-point: love him or hate him, our president (Trump) has been caught stating lies dozens of times. The media is obligated to report these falsehoods.

  24. eileenfleming
    July 15, 2017, 10:58 am

    Haaretz reported did NOT “investigate” nor quote any of the three USS Liberty Vets who coauthored the book he begins the article noting but does publish an egregious lie from the Israeli State archives including “several ‘amusing’ anecdotes, such as the description of a U.S. Independence Day party that was held at the U.S. Embassy in Israel after the disaster.

    “I was presented to the commander of the USS Liberty, which is here for repairs. He spoke freely about what happened and expressed his full confidence that it was a tragic mistake,” according to one of the Foreign Ministry documents.

    “When asked in my presence, how long the ship’s trip to the United States would take, he replied with a smile, ‘About two weeks – unless we encounter Israeli planes again.’”

    The USS Liberty was cosmetically repaired in Malta before returning to Norfolk to be scrapped.

    In 2007, this American first spoke with USS Liberty’s Commander David Ed Lewis, the officer in charge of 195 men out of the total Liberty crew of 294.

    Commander Lewis informed me:

    “Rear Admiral Lawrence Geiss was in charge of the USS Saratoga and USS America. He swore me to secrecy until his death, which happened about nineteen years later. What he told me I kept secret until I learned of his death at the first reunion and twenty year anniversary of the veterans of the USS LIBERTY. He told me that as soon as he got the word of our distress he launched aircraft and notified D.C. and immediately heard from McNamara to recall the aircraft. He said he assumed it was because some idiots in Washington thought that he was launching nuclear weaponry. He reconfigured and then re-launched aircraft without nuclear capabilities. Admiral Geiss notified Washington of this and once again the immediate response that came from McNamara was the order to recall the aircraft. Admiral Geiss challenged the order and pleaded that people are dying! LBJ was heard to say, ‘I don’t give a damn! I won’t embarrass an ally….

    Th Rest:
    http://thearabdailynews.com/2017/07/14/haaretz-publishes-israeli-lie-regarding-commander-uss-liberty/

    • James Canning
      July 15, 2017, 1:31 pm

      @eileenfleming Great post. LBJ apparently was not only willing to allow the Israelis to sink the USS Liberty, he may well have intended that to happen.

  25. eileenfleming
    July 15, 2017, 12:41 pm

    PETITION CALLING ON U.S. CONGRESS TO INVESTIGATE THE 8 JUNE 1967 ISRAELI ATTACK ON THE USS LIBERTY AND TO PROCLAIM JUNE 8TH AS ‘USS LIBERTY REMEMBRANCE DAY’

    The crew of the USS Liberty is the most decorated crew since World War II and among the most decorated for a single engagement in the entire history of the United States Navy. Virtually unarmed, the American navy ship was attacked by Israeli planes and torpedo boats on June 8, 1967 leaving 34 US Sailors and Marines dead and 174 more wounded. Yet, the attack has never received a full investigation, as required by law.

    In October of 2003, an Independent Commission of Inquiry convened including Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, United States Navy, (Ret.), Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff; General Raymond G. Davis, United States Marine Corps, (MOH), Former Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps; Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, United States Navy, (Ret.), Former Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Ambassador James Akins, (Ret.), Former United States Ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

    The Independent Commission of Inquiry, having undertaken an independent investigation of Israel’s attack on the USS Liberty, including eyewitness testimony from surviving crewmembers a review of naval and other official records, an examination of official statements by the Israeli and American governments, a study of the conclusions of all previous official inquiries, and a consideration of important new evidence and recent statements from individuals having direct knowledge of the attack or the cover up, concluded that there was compelling evidence that Israel’s attack was deliberate and ‘Israel committed acts of murder against American servicemen and an act of war against the United States.’

    WHEREUPON, we, the undersigned, in order to fulfill our duty to the brave crew of the USS Liberty and to all Americans who are asked to serve in our Armed Forces, hereby call upon the Department of the Navy, the Congress of the United States and the American people to immediately take the following actions:

    FIRST: That a new Court of Inquiry be convened by the Department of the Navy, operating with Congressional oversight, to take public testimony from surviving crewmembers; and to thoroughly investigate the circumstances of the attack on the USS Liberty, with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services, and to determine Israel’s possible motive in launching said attack on a U.S. naval vessel;

    SECOND: That every appropriate committee of the Congress of the United States investigate the actions of the White House and Defense Department that prevented the rescue of the USS Liberty, thereafter threatened her surviving officers and men if they exposed the truth, and covered up the true circumstances of the attack from the American people; and

    THIRD: That the eighth day of June of every year be proclaimed to be hereafter known as “USS LIBERTY REMEMBRANCE DAY, in order to commemorate the Liberty’s heroic crew and to educate the American people of the danger to our national security inherent in any passionate attachment of our elected officials for any foreign nation.”
    https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/end-usa-govt-coverup-honor-uss-liberty/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=button

    • jd65
      July 15, 2017, 4:17 pm

      Thank you, eileen.

    • James Canning
      July 15, 2017, 5:37 pm

      Eileen – – Lyndon Johnson had a passionate attachment to his own reputation, which he knew would be utterly destroyed if the truth behind the deliberate Israeli attack on the USS Liberty became widely known.

      • jd65
        July 15, 2017, 8:34 pm

        “Lyndon Johnson had a passionate attachment to his own reputation…”

        LOL

  26. Emet
    July 15, 2017, 6:25 pm

    If you were ever interested in how the hate of Jews can continue to fuel the hater, this is the story. The pilots involved said there was no flag. Some on the ship said there was a flag. If there was, now big was the flag. Have you ever flown inside a fighter jet at mach 1, during war, and tried to spot a flag on a ship below never mind being able to see what was printed on it? Hate will do more damage to the hater. And 50 years later, they hate as if it happened this morning.

    • Talkback
      July 16, 2017, 5:36 am

      Emet: ” … hate … hater … Hate will do more damage to the hater … hate …”

      Oh boy, Another case of heavy narcissim.

      Emet: “If there was, [h]ow big was the flag.”

      The first one which was hoisted all day was a 5-by-8 feet flag and after it was shot down it was replaced by a 7-by-13 feet flag.

      Emet: “Have you ever flown inside a fighter jet at mach 1, during war, and tried to spot a flag on a ship below never mind being able to see what was printed on it?”

      Good Question, Emet. One might add: “while being pretty busy with jamming Liberty’s five American emergency radio signals which are different from Egyptian emergency radio channels?”

      And let me ask you: Have you ever flown a reconaissance studying a ship build in 1945 for eight hours plane coming close to 200 feet which has dozens of large antennas including a large moon-bounce “satellite-dish” mounted on a tall structure near the stern, has white hull identification numbers and is waving an American flag and then mistook it for an Egypt ship that has black hull identification numbers, is a four times smaller and an ancient unarmed transport vessel from 1920 which is out of service?

      Keep drowning in your own hate, Emet.

    • CigarGod
      July 16, 2017, 10:08 am

      Dude,
      A pilot ain’t doing a recon at 200 feet and 1116.44 feet per second.

      • Talkback
        July 16, 2017, 12:01 pm

        I accidentally left out “plane” after “reconnaissance”. It was a reconaissance plane that studied the Liberty for eight hours prior to the attack.

      • James Canning
        July 16, 2017, 1:44 pm

        @Cigar God The Israeli pilots who flew low over the USS Liberty, hours before the Israeli attack on that American naval vessel, received waves from the American sailors who could see the faces of those pilots.

      • CigarGod
        July 16, 2017, 9:19 pm

        Hey Talkback and James.
        My comment was in response to Emet.

      • Talkback
        July 17, 2017, 11:14 am

        CigarGod: “My comment was in response to Emet”

        No problem. It helped me find a mistake in mine. ;)

    • James Canning
      July 16, 2017, 1:48 pm

      @Emet The USS Liberty was flying an enormous American flag, and additionally the US naval vessel was clearly marked with identification of its American intelligence-gathering purpose.

    • LHunter
      July 16, 2017, 1:48 pm

      Emet

      Ignore the overwhelming facts and testimony that clearly put the blame on israel as having diberately bombed the USS Liberty and focus instead on whether a flag was spotted at Mach 1 – do you really think you are convincing anyone? Or just trying to muddy the waters? Either way, you are much too simple minded and disingenuous to have any impact here – peddle your crap to your Zionist flunkies for comfort and reward.

    • Keith
      July 16, 2017, 4:13 pm

      EMET- “If you were ever interested in how the hate of Jews can continue to fuel the hater, this is the story.”

      If you are ever interested how Zionists can attempt to cover-up the obvious truth by charging anti-Semitism, Emet’s comment should clear up all doubts. Some quotes from CounterPunch.

      “A little after seven in the morning on June 8, Ennes entered the bridge of the Liberty to take the morning watch. Ennes was told that an hour earlier a “flying boxcar” (later identified as a twin-engine Nord 2501 Noratlas) had flown over the ship at a low level.

      Ennes says he noticed that the ship’s American flag had become stained with soot and ordered a new flag run up the mast. The morning was clear and calm, with a light breeze.

      At 9 am, Ennes spotted another reconnaissance plane, which circled the Liberty. An hour later two Israeli fighter jets buzzed the ship. Over the next four hours, Israeli planes flew over the Liberty five more times.
      ….
      Ennes notes that even testimony by the Liberty’s communications officers about the jamming of the ship’s radios was classified as “Top Secret.” The reason? It proved that Israel knew it was attacking an American ship. “Here was strong evidence that the attack was planned in advance and that our ship’s identity was known to the attackers (for it its practically impossible to jam the radio of a stranger), but this information was hushed up and no conclusions were drawn from it,” Ennes writes.

      Similarly, the Court of Inquiry deep-sixed testimony and affidavits regarding the flag-Ennes had ordered a crisp new one deployed early on the morning of the attack. The investigators buried intercepts of conversations between IDF pilots identifying the ship as flying an American flag.

      It also refused to accept evidence about the IDF’s use of napalm during the attacks and choose not to hear testimony regarding the duration of the attacks and the fact that the US Navy failed to send planes to defend the ship.
      ….
      As the attacks were going on, conversations between Israeli pilots were overheard by US Air Force officers in an EC121 surveillance plane overhead. The spy plane was spotted by Israeli jets, which were given orders to shoot it down. The American plane narrowly avoided the IDF missiles.
      ….
      More proof has recently come to light from the Israeli side. A few years after Attack on the Liberty was originally published, Ennes got a call from Evan Toni, an Israeli pilot. Toni told Ennes that he had just read his book and wanted to tell him his story. Toni said that he was the pilot in the first Israeli Mirage fighter to reach the Liberty. He immediately recognized the ship to be a US Navy vessel. He radioed Israeli air command with this information and asked for instructions. Toni said he was ordered to “attack.” He refused and flew back to the air base at Ashdod. When he arrived he was summarily arrested for disobeying orders.”
      (Jeffrey St. Clair) https://www.counterpunch.org/2003/10/24/israel-s-attack-on-the-liberty-revisited/

      The prolonged nature of this vicious attack, the jamming of the communications, the use of napalm and the machine-gunning of the life rafts, all indicate that Israel intended to sink the Liberty and kill all of those on board.

      • Paul Barbara
        July 18, 2017, 5:15 am

        And the use of heat-seeking missiles, not normally carried by Israeli Air Force, to destroy the transmitter aerial boosters on deck, which emitted a lot of heat.
        The Liberty was only able to get an SOS out because one of the transmitter boosters was turned off due to it malfunctioning. Crew managed to fire it up, and got the SOS out, which saved the day, both for the crew and for Egypt.

    • Mooser
      July 17, 2017, 10:51 am

      “If you were ever interested in how the hate of Jews can continue to fuel the hater, this is the story”

      “Emet” does it ever occur to you that your every comment is based in an assumption that the world LOVES the Jews, and will do anything to favor and cosset us?

      You expect everybody to indulge your self-serving religious fantasies, and grant you the right to make all moral judgments. Much more like a person expecting to be indulged.

  27. Ossinev
    July 16, 2017, 7:27 am

    @Emet
    “Have you ever flown inside a fighter jet at mach 1, during war, and tried to spot a flag on a ship below never mind being able to see what was printed on it?”

    Absolute Hasbarabollocks. At Mach 1 they apparently could clearly see that the ship was the state of the art Egyptian cattle transporter the El Arish.

    “Some on the ship said there was a flag”

    As in:
    http://www.lagrandeobserver.com/csp/mediapool/sites/LaGrandeObserver/LocalState/story.csp?cid=4067386&sid=824&fid=151

    Silly pathetic Americans. Even their so called naval intelligence officers allegedly can`t remember if there was a flag or not. It`s such a pain to have to put up with them but hey if they are stupid enough to keep giving us all that money and all those weapons and all that unconditional support in the UN what the hell go with the flow.

    And as for those who survived and lost their comrades and the families who lost their loved ones and continue to claim that the attack was deliberate. Well it`s obvious that they are simply anti – Semitic Jew Haters and don`t deserve any sympathy whatsoever.

    • Talkback
      July 16, 2017, 12:05 pm

      Ossinev: “Silly pathetic Americans. Even their so called naval intelligence officers allegedly can`t remember if there was a flag or not.”

      Survivors mentioned that two flags were hoisted. One before the attack and one even bigger during the attack runs.

  28. Atlantaiconoclast
    July 16, 2017, 11:21 am

    You know what I find more insulting than “conspiracy theories”? This notion that conspiracies only happen among low level crooks. Calling an accusation “conspiratorial” is really Orwellian. Nations HAVE conspired, nations, STILL conspire. Please stop demonizing people who put two and two together and are not afraid to call a spade a spade.

  29. James Canning
    July 16, 2017, 1:33 pm

    @Bont Eastlake You equate Israel’s intentional attack on the American naval ship (USS Liberty) with Israel’s attacks on Gazan fishing vessels that stray too far from shore. A bit silly, don’t you think?

  30. James Canning
    July 16, 2017, 1:51 pm

    @jd65 Are you suggesting Lyndon Johnson had no concerns regarding his reputation, when he suppressed the truth about Israel’s intentional attack on the USS Liberty? Lyndon Johnson apparently had advance knowledge of the Israeli attack on the American naval vessel.

    • echinococcus
      July 16, 2017, 4:33 pm

      Canning,

      For “reputation”, a word that has a well-established daily life denotation and is used among normal people, substitute “votes, power status, party advantage, etc”, in short avoiding to give away the game, and I suppose everyone will be happy.

      • James Canning
        July 16, 2017, 5:58 pm

        echinococcus Regarding LBJ’s concern for his reputation, I bear in mind the numerous times he wailed about “not wanting to be the first American president to lose a war”, and thus kept pouring more and more US troops into the Vietnam quagmire.

    • jd65
      July 20, 2017, 3:09 pm

      Hey James,

      Sorry about the delay in responding to your question. I didn’t see this until just now. No, I’m definitely not suggesting that. I assume you’re asking me because I wrote “LOL” as a response to your post:

      “Eileen – – Lyndon Johnson had a passionate attachment to his own reputation, which he knew would be utterly destroyed if the truth behind the deliberate Israeli attack on the USS Liberty became widely known.

      The reason I wrote “LOL” was because I thought your use of the phrase “passionate attachment” was funny/clever in an ironical way; seeing as I assume everyone here associates that phrase w/ the “special relationship” between the U.S. and Israel. I also assume you did that intentionally, which I liked…

  31. Neil Schipper
    July 16, 2017, 7:56 pm

    Most commenters here will need to read my comment of a few days ago around 15 times (with at least several hours between readings) in order to experience the exhilaration of connecting the most likely narrative with the most reliably sourced facts.

    But some of the commenters here are afflicted with quite high intelligence; for them, the deprogramming process will require at least 25 readings.

    • Mooser
      July 17, 2017, 11:08 am

      “Most commenters here will need to read my comment of a few days ago around 15 times…”

      Sure “Neil”. Got any other assignments for us? Anything to oblige a Zionist.

    • James Canning
      July 17, 2017, 1:01 pm

      @Neil Schipper Are you claiming Israel’s attack on the USS Liberty was unintentional?

  32. Paul Barbara
    July 16, 2017, 11:03 pm

    The definitive book about the USS Liberty, ‘Operation Cyanide’ by Peter Hounam, was published in 2003.
    Though he mistakenly gives the wrong name for the US Sixth Fleet Flagship, otherwise it is meticulous. Anyone who wants to understand what really went down in that attack should read it
    LBJ had arranged with the Israelis via the Deputy Israeli Ambassador to Washington Ephraim ‘Eppie’ Evron (almost certainly the head of station of the Mossad in the US) that he would send the Liberty to sail off the Egyptian coast, and Israel was to attack it, sink it and leave no survivors. Then the US was going to nuke Egypt in ‘retaliation’.
    The first thing the Israeli planes hit were the heat-radiating wireless antennas on the deck, with heat-seeking missiles (not normal armaments for the Israeli planes.
    They had done up to 13 reconnaissance flights over the ship previously, one at almost masthead height, and the crew of the planes and of the ship waved to each other.
    The attacking planes then continued the attack with bombs, napalm, rocket and cannon fire.
    Three MTB’s then attacked with 5 torpedoes, one of which struck causing a massive hole above and below the waterline.
    The Liberty crew managed to get an antenna unit working, which had been shut down due to malfunctioning, so was not generating heat and thus not destroyed by the first wave of aircraft, and rigged long wires up whilst under fire. They got an SOS out, which was picked up by a number of US Embassies in the region, as well as the Sixth Fleet.
    The Sixth Fleet replied, but the attack still continued. However, it was eventually stopped by Israel.
    The nuclear armed planes from the Sixth Fleet and a US base in North Africa were recalled, with just three minutes to the targets. That’s it in a nutshell, but read the book.

    • James Canning
      July 17, 2017, 1:02 pm

      Great post.

    • lysias
      July 18, 2017, 11:02 am

      Something I learned from the new book that I do not recall reading in Hounam is that the fact that during the attack the Israelis were jamming U.S. Navy radio frequencies was long classified by the U.S. government. They didn’t want to let out this damning evidence that the attack was deliberate.

  33. TRG-42
    July 17, 2017, 3:11 am

    The purpose of the sinking of USS Liberty was to obtain a legitimate reason for US to attack Egypt, which was assigned the role of having been the one who assaulted Liberty. Two planes with nuclear bombs did already take off from a US aircraft carrier and started for Kairo for revenge. However, with the plan to sink Liberty failing the planes were called back and Kairo was saved.
    Assault on Liberty was an early version of 9/11, old trick.

    • James Canning
      July 17, 2017, 1:05 pm

      You are saying that Lyndon Johnson conspired with Israel to set up an American attack on Egypt, and part of the conspiracy was the murder of nearly 300 American sailors.

      • Paul Barbara
        July 18, 2017, 5:00 am

        Yes, that is what I am saying. He also broadcast the ‘Gulf of Tonkin LIE’, which led to massive escalation of the Vietnam intervention, leading to most of the 58,000 US dead, as well as most of the millions of Vietnamese, Cambodian and Laotian dead.

      • RoHa
        July 18, 2017, 8:39 pm

        And the 5000 or so South Korean soldiers, 500 Australians, and 37 Kiwis. But I don’t expect Americans to know about them.

    • Keith
      July 17, 2017, 3:06 pm

      TRG-42- “The purpose of the sinking of USS Liberty was to obtain a legitimate reason for US to attack Egypt, which was assigned the role of having been the one who assaulted Liberty.”

      It would help if you at least tried to appear sane. Since Egypt’s air force was already destroyed and Israel was the only combatant capable of attacking the Liberty, all of which was monitored by Russia, et al, who would be fooled? And why would the US want to go to war with Egypt when Israel was doing Uncle Sam’s warmongering for us?

      • James Canning
        July 17, 2017, 5:52 pm

        @Keith You apparently are unaware that American warplanes were en route to targets in Egypt, and preparing to strike, when the failure of the USS Liberty to sink forced the recall of the US strike force.

  34. Citizen
    July 17, 2017, 10:05 am

    McCain and Israel’s Intentional Bombing of the USSLiberty–by 08 POTUS candidate RalphNader https://youtu.be/0q7yEnMjQ6U via @YouTube

  35. Talkback
    July 17, 2017, 10:41 am

    What is most fascinating about the comment section is how Hasbara trolls never claim that the accusations against the US or Lyndon would be hatred of Americans. Baybe, because they know that their accusation would sound even more stupid as it does. Even in their desperate and pathetic accusations of hatred they apply double standards. ROFL.

    • Mooser
      July 17, 2017, 12:01 pm

      “Even in their desperate and pathetic accusations of hatred they apply double standards.”

      They use the same arguments and rationals in the Mondo comment section they would use while getting mutual reinforcement from another Zionist concerning this issue.
      They don’t know any others. The idea of having to give an account of Zionism to non-Zionists (let alone anti-Zionists!) never even occurs to them.

    • James Canning
      July 17, 2017, 1:18 pm

      The historical record supporting the conclusion Lyndon Johnson had advance knowledge of Israel’s intent to attack the USS Liberty is very strong, and Johnson’s advance knowledge is historic fact. It is interesting to see the response, as you note.

  36. genesto
    July 17, 2017, 12:13 pm

    Interesting how this topic generates so much interest and discussion, while – and please correct me if I’ve missed this – JVP still refuses to chime in on it.

    So, Rebecca, where do you and the organization stand on this issue?

    And, are you and JVP finally ready to take a formal and public stand against Zionism as a racist ideology?

    We’re all waiting—–

    • James Canning
      July 18, 2017, 1:47 pm

      @genesto Lyndon Johnson’s secret plan to attack Egypt in June 1967 is the heart of the matter, in the cover-up of Israel’s intentional attack on the USS Liberty.

      • lysias
        July 18, 2017, 9:46 pm

        The heart of the matter indeed. It calls into question the legitimacy of the U.S. government, period.

  37. Joe Meadors
    July 18, 2017, 2:35 pm

    With apologies in advance, I submit that a discussion of the deliberateness of the attack is a red herring designed to divert the public from the real question of why the US government has allowed War Crimes to be committed by and against the United States with impunity and without remorse.

    Even if the attack is determined to have been an “accident” there is still the question of the conduct of both the Israelis and Americans during the attack to be addressed and resolved.

    Warmest regards,

    Joe Meadors
    USS Liberty Survivor
    Director of Operations, USS Liberty Veterans Association

    • echinococcus
      July 18, 2017, 9:35 pm

      Mr Meadors,

      The deliberateness of the attack might be a red herring, at any rate irrelevant, with regard to the need to prosecute and punish perpetrators on both sides.

      It is not irrelevant with regard to the public: in fact, the only thing that allowed the government and the Zionists to get away with this crime was the repeated statement that the attack was an “accident”. The criminals do recognize the attack. They rely on the gullibility of the public.

    • RoHa
      July 18, 2017, 9:47 pm

      ” why the US government has allowed War Crimes to be committed by and against the United States with impunity and without remorse.”

      Some of us think we know why, and I, for one, suspect that ” the question of the conduct of both the Israelis and Americans during the attack” will continue to be swept under the rug for the same reasons.

      But I wish you success in your efforts to get the matter resolved.

  38. MHughes976
    July 18, 2017, 5:16 pm

    I am a bit sceptical about the Johnson conspiracy, which would surely have involved guilty knowledge among quite a lot of people. But if Johnson was really conspiring with Dayan to murder hundreds of Americans he and any Americans who were in on the plot are on a far lower moral plane than any Israelis were, though the event is still, even on a more exculpating account, a monument to Israeli recklessness and arrogance. The continuing importance lies in the fact that even way outside Johnson’s circle of conspirators or dupes, dead and buried with him, a pattern was set that has never changed whereby what Israel says, however hard to believe, is believed and Israeli actions, however hard to condone, are condoned. If you will take that attitude when the victims are your own people how much more will you do so when they are others for whom you do not specially care?

    • RoHa
      July 18, 2017, 9:36 pm

      “If you will take that attitude when the victims are your own people how much more will you do so when they are others for whom you do not specially care?”

      If you are a leader, and particularly an elected one, you are likely to be a psychopath who does not really care for anyone.

      But your point can be retained by phrasing it as “others for whom you do not have a special duty of care”.

    • lysias
      July 18, 2017, 9:43 pm

      If LBJ pressured Israel to take part in the conspiracy, as the recent book claims, that would serve to exonerate Israel to an extent, would it not? It would also explain Israel’s refusal to take the blame.

  39. lysias
    July 18, 2017, 9:53 pm

    Although the latest volume of Robert Caro’s biography of LBJ goes easy on his earlier charges of fhe man’s supreme immorality, Philip Nelson’s recent books make it clear what a villain the man was.

  40. Keith
    July 19, 2017, 10:32 am

    FOLKS- I have just read the entire comments section on this thread and am SHOCKED at the number of comments saying that LBJ conspired with Israel to sink the Liberty as a pretext to nuke Egypt. The intent of all of this is to taint by association all of those who rightly believe that the Liberty was intentionally attacked by Israel in the full knowledge that it was an American electronic surveillance ship. There was a conspiracy to cover-up the attack, but a conspiracy to cause the attack? Get serious. And the folks who push this absurd scenario are no friends of the Liberty or of accountability. The “nuke Egypt” scenario is absurd on so many levels that it is beyond an insult to the intelligence.

    • MHughes976
      July 19, 2017, 12:26 pm

      I’ve not read Hounam’s book and don’t think I’m going to – It’s a bit hard to believe that he is meticulous in all other respects if he gets the name of the flagship wrong, and I still think that the conspiracy would have had to be unrealistically extensive. As far as I can see Keith is quite right.

    • echinococcus
      July 19, 2017, 5:12 pm

      Keith and Hughes,

      The possible consequences of spreading or discussing or proving a hypothesis are not relevant to its discussion.

      Also, conspiracies involving even larger numbers of players have been known to history.

      Right now, it does sound somewhat in character for any US president but without much evidence.

    • Mooser
      July 19, 2017, 8:31 pm

      “The “nuke Egypt” scenario is absurd on so many levels that it is beyond an insult to the intelligence.”

      I’m still worried about “communications from Israel’s headquarters to field officers ordering them to execute 7000+ Egyptian prisoners”, too.

      But really, how far can you go in debunking these stories? Every war generates atrocity propaganda and conspiracy theories.

      • Keith
        July 20, 2017, 10:37 am

        MOOSER- “I’m still worried about “communications from Israel’s headquarters to field officers ordering them to execute 7000+ Egyptian prisoners”, too.”

        7000 appears to be a significant exaggeration of a true event. Israel has a history of executing prisoners. The actual number of prisoners executed at El Arish in 1967 appears to be about 1000, including Egyptian pilots to ensure the complete destruction of the Egyptian Air Force. A quote and a link to CounterPunch:

        “There’s another factor. The Liberty was positioned just off the coast from the town of El Arish. In fact, Ennes and others had used town’s mosque tower to fix the location of the ship along the otherwise featureless desert shoreline. The IDF had seized El Arish and had used the airport there as a prisoner of war camp. On the very day the Liberty was attacked, the IDF was in the process of executing as many as 1,000 Palestinian and Egyptian POWs, a war crime that they surely wanted to conceal from prying eyes. According to Gabriel Bron, now an Israeli reporter, who witnessed part of the massacre as a soldier: “The Egyptian prisoners of war were ordered to dig pits and then army police shot them to death.” (Jeffrey St. Clair) https://www.counterpunch.org/2003/10/24/israel-s-attack-on-the-liberty-revisited/

        But you are absolutely correct about the debunking. If you can’t hide the facts, bury them under a mountain of BS so they are tainted. And, as much as I love the internet, it has a dark side involving the spreading of BS at near the speed of light. And psychologically people react differently when they are linked in a virtual community such that a form of mob psychology can take root and folks get caught up in a frenzy. And the folks with deep pockets can buy themselves a lot of provocateurs.

      • eljay
        July 20, 2017, 1:30 pm

        || Keith: … the IDF was in the process of executing as many as 1,000 Palestinian and Egyptian POWs, a war crime that they surely wanted to conceal from prying eyes. According to Gabriel Bron, now an Israeli reporter, who witnessed part of the massacre as a soldier: “The Egyptian prisoners of war were ordered to dig pits and then army police shot them to death.” (Jeffrey St. Clair) … ||

        Army police must have just missed the memo from “Jewish State” HQ that they were part of “the world’s most moral army”. :-(

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2017, 7:45 pm

        “The actual number of prisoners executed at El Arish in 1967 appears to be about 1000, including Egyptian pilots to ensure the complete destruction of the Egyptian Air Force”

        1000 prisoners-of-war executed, (and pilots executed just for being pilots) seems like a lot, but it’s not 7000, which is seven times as much.

      • echinococcus
        July 20, 2017, 11:10 pm

        Mooser,

        On a smaller scale if there is a scale for this kind of thing, it’s about as irrelevant as the difference between 2 million and 6 million.

      • Dan
        July 21, 2017, 7:52 am

        “1000 prisoners-of-war executed….seems like a lot”

        Here is what Brun actually said back in 1995 – see the link below.
        According to Brun he saw five prisoners killed, and believed five others were also.

        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/israelis-admit-war-crimes-1596725.html

      • Mooser
        July 21, 2017, 1:15 pm

        “According to Brun he saw five prisoners killed, and believed five others were also.”

        It’s a slippery slope, “Keith” and once you start down it, there’s no telling where you will end up.

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