Trump response to Charlottesville sugarcoats a rotten morality

US Politics
on 78 Comments

In response to yesterday’s car-ramming attack on anti-racism protesters in Charlottesville (which even several Republican senators called white-supremacist terror), President Trump said:

“We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides.”

Trump continued:

“It’s been going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. This has been going on for a long, long time.”

CNN editor Chris Cillizza was completely on point when he wrote:

“It’s hard to imagine a less presidential statement in a time in which the country looks to its elected leader to stand up against intolerance and hatred. […] Both sides don’t scream racist and anti-Semitic things at people with whom they disagree. They don’t base a belief system on the superiority of one race over others… This is not just a protest where things, unfortunately, got violent. Violence sits at the heart of their warped belief system.”

Shortly after, Trump moved on to name all the ‘good things’:

“Our country is doing very well in so many ways. We have record — just absolute record employment. We have unemployment, the lowest it’s been in almost 17 years. We have companies pouring into our country. Foxconn and car companies, and so many others, they’re coming back to our country. We’re renegotiating trade deals to make them great for our country and great for the American worker. We have so many incredible things happening in our country.”

And finally, to connect it all up to Charlottesville, Trump said:

“So when I watch Charlottesville, to me it’s very, very sad.”

This is not the first time Trump runs this stunt. In fact, this one is very similar to the one he did on February 15th, under a press conference with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu. There, he was asked a question by a reporter:

“Mr. President, since your election campaign and even after your victory, we’ve seen a sharp rise in anti-Semitic — anti- Semitic incidents across the United States. And I wonder, what do you say to those among the Jewish community in the states and in Israel and maybe around the world who believe and feel that your administration is playing with xenophobia and maybe racist tones?”

Trump’s stunning response, in which he started out by talking about his election victory, was widely commented upon at the time:

Washington Post: “Trump was asked a question about anti-Semitism. His answer was about the electoral college”.

Time: “President Trump Was Asked About Anti-Semitism. He Responded by Talking About His Win”

The Independent: “Donald Trump brags about electoral college victory while answering question on anti-Semitism”

Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA): “President Trump answered a question about anti-Semitism by boasting about his election victory”

As Emily Jane Fox of Vanity Fair wrote in her piece titled ‘Donald Trump Answers Question About Anti-Semitism by Bragging About His Electoral Win’, ‘When Trump chimed in to answer, it was almost as if he heard nothing after “even after your victory.” What the reporter did was open the door for him to talk about that victory, and since the door was open, Trump did a victory lap right on through’.

So, at that incident, Trump started out with himself and his successes, while in the current case he leaves that mostly to the later part of the address, but it’s there.

Back when he got the anti-semitism question in February, he went on to address “racism”:

“I will say that we are going to have peace in this country. We are going to stop crime in this country. We are going to do everything within our power to stop long-simmering racism and every other thing that’s going on. There’s a lot of bad things that have been taking place over a long period of time. I think one of the reasons I won the election is we have a very, very divided nation, very divided. And hopefully, I’ll be able to do something about that. And I, you know, it was something that was very important to me”, Trump said.

Not once was the word anti-Semitism used – the subject of the actual question. Notice that phrase, “a lot of bad things that have been taking place over a long period of time”, and mirror that with yesterday’s “hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides” and “this has been going on for a long, long time”.

In February, Trump continued the generalist response by saying:

“As far as people, Jewish people, so many friends; a daughter who happens to be here right now; a son-in-law, and three beautiful grandchildren. I think that you’re going to see a lot different United States of America over the next three, four or eight years. I think a lot of good things are happening. And you’re going to see a lot of love. You’re going to see a lot of love. OK? Thank you”.

The question wasn’t about Trump and his Jewish relatives. It was about anti-Semitism.

Now notice how Trump continued yesterday:

“No citizen should ever fear for their safety and security in our society, and no child should ever be afraid to go outside and play, or be with their parents, and have a good time”.

Like, seriously? What’s this to do with Charlottesville? He’s bringing up children like he did back in February. What kitsch! Then he continued yesterday:

“We have to come together as Americans, with love for our nation, and true affect…” [here he seems to go off script] – “really…and I say this so strongly, true affection for each other…”

Mirror that with his February “you’re going to see a lot of love. You’re going to see a lot of love. OK?”

This is Donald Trump. All that vagueness, all that kitsch, it’s a sugar coating for a downright rotten morality, and refusal to call out racism by its particular name, by generalizing it and appropriating blame in all directions. It is a pathological tendency of Trump. And the white supremacists, they get it. They don’t need more explanation, they don’t need the ‘love’ and all the rest of it, they just need Trump to not condemn them – that’s enough for them. They know he’s saying all those fancy words because of ‘political correctness’ as it were. What Trump is not saying directly is a dog-whistle for them.

About Jonathan Ofir

Israeli musician, conductor and blogger / writer based in Denmark.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

78 Responses

  1. Annie Robbins
    August 13, 2017, 2:23 pm

    check out this quotation from the @nytimes https://twitter.com/JStein_Vox/status/896723151417225217

    “i see both the social justice alt-left and the white supremacist alt-right as two sides of the same coin.”

    this concept is being normalized by both the president and the paper of record. unreal.

    • bryan
      August 13, 2017, 4:43 pm

      If only everyone was a decent centrist like me (and Hillary and Obama) things would work out so much better.

      • RoHa
        August 13, 2017, 8:09 pm

        If everyone were to shut up and do things my way, then everything would work out so much better.

      • Emory Riddle
        August 14, 2017, 8:31 am

        “Mr. President, since your election campaign and even after your victory, we’ve seen a sharp rise in anti-Semitic — anti- Semitic incidents across the United States. ”

        Why was this question being asked at the dedication of the African American history museum? The only one in our nation. How tone deaf. And there are virtually no anti-Semitic incidents in America….certainly none in terms of actual physical damage or real threats to buildings or person — very much unlike the real issues that Muslims are facing in this nation. And the whole basis for the claim — bomb threats to Jewish centers — turned out to be as phony as a $3 bill.

        It deserved no answer whatsoever.

    • just
      August 13, 2017, 5:10 pm

      It’s sickening, Annie.

      Check this out:

      “Republican Leader in Israel Hails Robert E. Lee as ‘Great Man,’ Blames ‘Leftist Thugs’ for Charlottesville Violence

      Head of Republicans Abroad in Israel Marc Zell says counterprotesters at white supremacist rally represent the ‘ugly face of progressivism’ in the U.S.

      U.S. President Donald Trump’s supporters in Israel continue to loyally and strongly support him following Saturday’s neo-Nazi and white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

      In contrast to widespread condemnation of the president for fanning the flames of hatred with divisive rhetoric and policies, and for his failure to unequivocally condemn white nationalist violence, Trump’s supporters present a diametrically different point of view.

      “Trying to blame the President for these events is ridiculous,” said Marc Zell, head of Republicans Abroad in Israel. “The president supports the United States and the freedom of all Americans. Even before the events escalated, he called for calm and restraint on all sides – in contradiction to [Trump’s predecessor, Barack] Obama, who fanned racial tensions.”

      Going on the offensive, Zell said that he holds “leftist thugs,” local authorities and organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union responsible for Saturday’s events.

      “I am, of course, no supporter of Nazis or white supremacists. But this very tragic event could have been avoided,” he said. “It was clear to all that the leftist thugs would come out to provoke and escalate the events. These thugs are the ugly face of progressivism around the country. They are looking to shut down free speech.” …”

      read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.806586

      • just
        August 13, 2017, 5:51 pm

        Worth a look:

        “WATCH: Why Trump Won’t Condemn White Supremacists”

        read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.806646

      • echinococcus
        August 13, 2017, 7:29 pm

        What is “sickening”, Just?

        The fact that some Zionists side with repulsive elements in the US –repulsive to you, at least, or that other Zionists ingratiate themselves with the at least as warmongering and repulsive fraction that is opposed the one you don’t like?

        In both cases, the Zionists are firmly in command, except for the insignificantly small antiwar liberals (rather the even smaller anti-Zionist fraction thereof) and the antiwar conservatives.

    • mcohen..
      August 14, 2017, 8:43 am

      Annie

      I m surprised by some of your statements.I read the exchange between you and gamal and your approval of low key.gamal was referring to grenfell and then stated that it was pushback time.my understanding is that some people think that grenfell was pay back for the Ariana grande Manchester concert suicide bombing and the London bridge attacks.

      did you say normalized.you fail to understand white anger in america and Britain.I think that leaders in both countries are afraid to face the fact. that unless steps are taken to addres these issues with urgency the situation can quickly deteriorate.

      forget about trump.it is the old chess move .you need to send a bishop to oppose a knight.

      • John O
        August 14, 2017, 1:16 pm

        @mcohen

        “my understanding is that some people think that grenfell was pay back for the Ariana grande Manchester concert suicide bombing and the London bridge attacks.”

        First I’ve heard of this interesting theory. Do you believe it? If so, what evidence do you have? If not, why mention it?

      • Annie Robbins
        August 14, 2017, 5:40 pm

        gamal was referring to grenfell and then stated that it was pushback time.my understanding is that some people think that grenfell was pay back for the Ariana grande Manchester concert suicide bombing and the London bridge attacks.

        is your “understanding .. some people think that grenfell was pay back for the Ariana grande Manchester concert suicide bombing and the London bridge attacks” from word of mouth? do you have any links? because i can’t find any reference to it online at all. and i’m not understanding what you’re insinuating regarding my discussion w/gamal.

        and what about my statement surprised you. it would be helpful if you were not so cryptic.

        did you say normalized.you fail to understand white anger in america and Britain.

        yes i said normalized. how do you think me “understanding” white anger in america and britain will change, or may change, my opinion about both trump and the nyt normalizing the idea “both the social justice alt-left and the white supremacist alt-right as two sides of the same coin”.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 14, 2017, 5:46 pm

        john o, perhaps he mentioned it because gamal used the term pushback and the rumor term was payback and maybe he was implying gamal, lowkey or i support burning down apartment buildings full of sleeping people and if that was the case then we would be the left (alt left) version of the (implied) altrt right version who caused glenfell? it’s sort of a leap, but mCohen routinely has leaps of logic.

      • John O
        August 14, 2017, 6:13 pm

        @Annie

        I was struggling to understand what mcohen was on about because I don’t recall the exchange between you and gamal, which is presumably on another thread. mcohen’s statement about white anger – at least the in Britain part of it – is baffling, almost as baffling as his final paragraph.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 14, 2017, 6:29 pm

        john o, here’s my exchange w/gamal re lowkey (scroll up) http://mondoweiss.net/2017/08/highest-american-palestine/#comment-887819

        you may understand the mcohen’s context more by reading his archives ;) good luck.

      • gamal
        August 14, 2017, 6:54 pm

        “nyt normalizing the idea “both the social justice alt-left and the white supremacist alt-right as two sides of the same coin”. ”

        we been here, Serb/Croat, Sunni/Shia, and on and on,

        they are promoting sectarianism, you not the first to face this ploy, Sheikh Imam and Fouad Negm wrote, below its sung in Palestine

        If the sun sinks, precisely about the confusion sown by the state and the bewilderment of activists (in their case revolutionaries, we don’t have those yet) faced with the complex seething social mass, this is redneck Arab music,

        “A song by Sheikh Imam. This song glorifies the role of the word, written, spoken, or sung, in illuminating the way when vision is shrouded in clouds of lies and manipulation.”

        If the sun drowns in a sea of clouds
        And extends a wave of darkness onto the world
        And vision dies in the eyes of the vigilant
        And the road is lost in lines and circles
        O shrewd traveler in straight lines and in circles,
        You have no guide but the eyes of speech

        Arabic Original

        إذا الشمس غرقت في بحر الغمام
        ومدت على الدنــيا مــوجة ظــــلام
        ومات البصر في العيـون والبصايــــر
        وغاب الطريق في الخطوط والدواير
        يا ساير يا دايــر يا ابــو المفهومــــية
        ما فيش لك دليـل غير عيون الكلام

        https://youtu.be/kDhW56IQSPI

        just to offer you some fellow feeling once Fouad wondered “Whats wrong with our President”, you know the feeling, Embattled white American people especially should enjoy this,

        What’s Wrong With Our President?

        I never fret, and will always say
        A word, for which, I am responsible
        That the president is a compassionate man

        Constantly, busy working for his people
        Busy, gathering their money
        Outside, in Switzerland, saving it for us
        In secret bank accounts

        Poor guy, looking out for our future
        Can’t you see his kindly heart?
        In faith and good conscience
        He only starves you; so you’d lose the weight

        O what a people! In need of a diet
        O the ignorance! You talk of “unemployment”
        And how conditions have become dysfunctional
        The man just wants to see you rested
        Since when was rest such a burden???

        And this talk of the resorts
        Why do they call them political prisons??
        Why do you have to be so suspicious?
        He just wants you to have some fun
        With regards to “The Chair”
        It is without a doubt
        All our fault!!

        Couldn’t we buy him a Teflon Chair?
        I swear, you mistreated the poor man
        He wasted his life away, and for what?
        Even your food, he eats it for you!
        Devouring all that’s in his way
        After all this, what’s wrong with our president?

        Negm

      • Annie Robbins
        August 14, 2017, 8:57 pm

        i like this “redneck arab music”

        O shrewd traveler in straight lines and in circles,
        You have no guide but the eyes of speech

      • RoHa
        August 15, 2017, 3:17 am

        Thanks, gamal.

        Good poems, both of them.

        With the aid of the translation I was able to follow the Arabic of the first one, except for the second to last line. I see (with the help of a dictionary) “O father of understanding” or some such, but I can’t fathom the rest. Can I ask you to spell that one out, please?

      • Mooser
        August 15, 2017, 11:34 am

        ” it’s sort of a leap, but mCohen routinely has leaps of logic.”

        “Annie”, which “mcohen” are you talking about? There used to be a “mcohen”, but he seems to be gone, and replaced by “”mcohen..” (with two dots). Who does not seem to share an archive with “mcohen” (no dots).

      • Annie Robbins
        August 15, 2017, 4:15 pm

        mooser, oh my this is the first i realized there may be 2 separate posters and thank you for bringing this to my attention.

      • Mooser
        August 15, 2017, 5:18 pm

        ” this is the first i realized there may be 2 separate posters”

        Sort of a puzzlement. Who is, so to speak, ‘the real mcohen’?

    • Stephen Shenfield
      August 14, 2017, 5:00 pm

      Annie: “check out this quotation from the @nytimes “i see both the social justice alt-left and the white supremacist alt-right as two sides of the same coin.” ”

      What this reveals is that the ruling class fears and detests the white-supremacist right not for the same reasons why we — the “social-justice left” — fear and detest it but because it is outside their control — and in this respect it is the same kind of force from their vantage point as we are. A common code word of theirs for such forces is “populist”. There has been a long-established understanding among the ruling class that their politicians should not exploit “populism” for personal advantage and they are angry at Trump for breaking that rule

      • Annie Robbins
        August 14, 2017, 6:20 pm

        stephen, while i don’t disagree with what you think it reveals about the ruling class, i perceive this differently. i see this as part of the ongoing feud between the “ruling class” dems who are in competition with, and bashing on, bernie supporters. i see them capitalizing on the racism and violence of white supremacists by trying to link their ideological enemies (the sanders supporters) in a way that paints their opponents in the same extremist terms, as if they have a lot in common. iow, they are exploiting the white supremacist alt-rt rally to target the left. there are a lot of examples of this on the internet. and then i read some screed about some alt-rts loving assad (some of them do) and as a result of this claiming they have so much in common w/anti war left (“social-justice left”), who want to end the war in syria and oppose US intervention — and therefore we embrace dictators. so this to me is an exploitation of the current circumstances to support neoliberal intervention.

        there was a dust up on twitter when the ceo of 3rd way, a clinton neoliberal thinktank, tweeted something to bernie supporters suggesting they should go to this rally if they wanted to be useful. as if she was above it all and bernie supporters/“social-justice left” didn’t care about racism. the neoliberals are exploiting this for sure.

        and i am sure i’m not the only one to notice once the neoliberal dems got sanders out of the way in the primary race trump seamlessly doubled down on his populace speech, so yes the ‘moderate’ dems are pissed.

        There has been a long-established understanding among the ruling class that their politicians should not exploit “populism” for personal advantage and they are angry at Trump for breaking that rule

        i didn’t know about that. do you mean in the UK, here, or everywhere?

    • Sibiriak
      August 14, 2017, 9:57 pm

      Annie Robbins: check out this quotation from the @nytimes https://twitter.com/JStein_Vox/status/896723151417225217

      “i see both the social justice alt-left and the white supremacist alt-right as two sides of the same coin.”
      ———————

      Btw, the actual quote refers to “the social-justice warrior alt left” not simply the “social justice alt-left.”

      Perhaps a small difference, but not entirely insignificant.

      The quote goes on to say:

      Both would punish others for wrong think. Both see the other side not as opponents, but as evil that can justifiably be silenced.

      There’s a good deal of truth on that narrow point of anti-free-speech advocacy, although it is obviously being seized upon and manipulated for ideological reasons. (The remark about the “crumbling of Western civilization’s certainties” is worthless tripe.)

      Cf Glenn Greenwald, “The Misguided Attacks on ACLU for Defending Neo-Nazis’ Free Speech Rights in Charlottesville “:

      https://theintercept.com/2017/08/13/the-misguided-attacks-on-aclu-for-defending-neo-nazis-free-speech-rights-in-charlottesville/

      • Annie Robbins
        August 15, 2017, 4:34 pm

        thanks for (slight) correction sibiriak, i see the slight distinction.

        Both see the other side not as opponents, but as evil that can justifiably be silenced.

        this is drivel even if somebody could eek out a smidgen of truth in it. what’s next? pure evil instead of just evil? there are a lot of atheists who don’t assign biblical terms to their opponents — likely on both sides. and the chance there are not people on both sides who see the other side as an opponent is — nil. on that note i probably share a LOT in common with dick cheney. chances are we both drink water and read the news — if you know what i mean. to draw an equivalence between 2 groups of people with fundamentally opposing viewpoints because they oppose eachother (which appears to be the ‘logic’) is by design, to tar and libel.

        one might as well claim refugees are the equivalent of settlers because both claim they are targeted for ethnic cleansing. or a liar is the same as truth teller because they both have the same narrative and therefore are on the same side of the coin! no, they are not!

      • Annie Robbins
        August 15, 2017, 4:49 pm

        and as an aside, i know there are some anarchists like the ones i saw in a video in portland oregon recently who used violent actions to invoke. but this is not the target of this so called alt left accusation. the accusation is used against a whole swath of people on the left who refused to vote for clinton or support neocon wars. whereas the alt right self identify as such and they are a movement so it is not an accusation per se to call people what they call themselves. whereas painting the progressive left wing as extremists (like claiming being anti apartheid or anti zionist as an extreme position because we support equality) is an insult — which is what it is intended to be and how it is intentionally used — so i am not falling for it.

  2. eljay
    August 13, 2017, 2:27 pm

    It seems that the purpose of Trump’s mouth is simply to confirm just how stupid he is. I never imagined that the U.S. could end up with a leader less intelligent than George “Du(m)bya” Bush.

    • RoHa
      August 13, 2017, 9:21 pm

      “I never imagined that the U.S. could end up with a leader less intelligent than George “Du(m)bya” Bush.”

      How very naive! I remember the same sort of thing being said about Reagan.

      But, really, all you have to do is remember that the qualifications for the post are that the candidate has to be over 35 and a natural born American. That last requirement drastically reduces the chances of getting an intelligent president.

  3. John O
    August 13, 2017, 3:03 pm

    “His brains could revolve inside a peanut shell for a thousand years without touching the sides.” I can’t recall who this was said about originally, but he was clearly a near relative.

    And of course, there is Molly Ivins’ great put down of a member of the Texas legislature: “If his IQ were any lower, they’d have to water him twice a day.”

    • bryan
      August 13, 2017, 4:45 pm

      He comes from a long line of moderate US leaders, like Dan Quayle and Sarah Palin.

  4. Keith
    August 13, 2017, 4:33 pm

    Allow me to offer a dissenting opinion. I am not in favor of counter demonstrations which frequently and needlessly become confrontations, often violent. Not only does this result in increased publicity for the original demonstration, but creates the psychology of being under attack on both sides. In Mein Kampf, Hitler discusses all of the violent disruptions the Nazis faced which, he felt, made them stronger with a committed core. I think we are seeing the manufactured psychology of American sectarianism. Divide and rule, as they say. The “Salvadoran Option” may be coming home to roost. And beware the mob psychology potential of the internet.

    • bryan
      August 13, 2017, 4:47 pm

      Sumud is also a waste of time and energy?

      • Keith
        August 13, 2017, 9:37 pm

        BRYAN- “Sumud is also a waste of time and energy?”

        I am under the impression that “Sumud” (steadfastness, perseverance) is more or less the antithesis of a confrontational counter demonstration. My point is that counter demonstrations tend to be counterproductive, not that they are a waste of time and energy.

    • Mooser
      August 13, 2017, 5:27 pm

      Conditions in between-the-wars Germany were quite a bit different than they are in US circa 2017.

      • Keith
        August 13, 2017, 9:48 pm

        MOOSER- “Conditions in between-the-wars Germany were quite a bit different than they are in US circa 2017.”

        So, are you saying that divide and rule won’t work in the US circa 2017? Divide and rule has a long history of success. And when everyone is busy fighting and demonizing the alt-right instead of the corporations and oligarchs that are running the show, you have already lost.

      • Citizen
        August 14, 2017, 5:50 am

        “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides.”

      • Mooser
        August 14, 2017, 11:50 am

        “And when everyone is busy fighting and demonizing the alt-right instead of the corporations and oligarchs that are running the show,”

        Oh yeah, “Keith” the genuine populists of the alt-right is opposed to the oligarchs and corporations. You bet. Ever hear of the Kochs or the Mercers?

      • Keith
        August 14, 2017, 1:49 pm

        MOOSER- “Oh yeah, “Keith” the genuine populists of the alt-right is opposed to the oligarchs and corporations. You bet.”

        You are misstating me (Intentionally?). The alt-right are not populists. The alt-left are not populists. What passes for the left among the 99% is stupidly fighting what passes for the right among the 99%, and vice versa. Manufactured sectarianism. Nobody on the so-called left was protesting the Kochs or the Mercers. Who was protesting neoliberal globalization? When the 99% is fighting amongst itself, the 1% has won. Incidently, this type of civil violence has long been predicted by the military as a consequence of neoliberalism. Why do you think that the police walk around clad in black body armor?

        In the U.S. Space Command’s Vision for 2020, they anticipate that “globalization of the world economy” will lead to “a widening between the ‘haves’ and ‘have-nots’” with “deepening economic stagnation, political instability, and cultural alienation” leading to violence and unrest among the “have-nots.”

        “According to a November 2008 report of the U.S. Army War College, the Pentagon and the U.S. intelligence establishment are preparing for what they see as a historic crisis of the existing order that could require the use of armed force to quell social struggles at home.” (“The Global Economic Crisis,” Michel Chossudovsky and Andrew Gavin Marshall, Editors, p259)

      • Keith
        August 14, 2017, 2:10 pm

        CITIZEN- “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides.” (President Trump)

        I wouldn’t be surprised if there were agents provocateurs on both sides of these confrontations trying to incite violence. And this ongoing demonization of Trump as if our problems would disappear with him out only serve the interests of a part of the 1%. The Trump administration is extremely weak, and Wall Street, etc. are effectively calling the shots in any event. Do these people enjoy being manipulated?

      • Keith
        August 14, 2017, 6:31 pm

        MOOSER- “You bet!”

        Into Alex Jones, are you? You are like these Zionists who troll these “anti-Semitic” websites getting their fair share of virtual, vicarious anti-Semitism. And then, if these sites have articles which contain some truth, then the article can be ignored as being anti-Semitic by definition. And if someone says more or less the same thing, then that argument and person can also be labeled as anti-Semitic and dismissed out of hand. As to agents provocateurs, during the “Battle of Seattle,” some of the Black Block were positively identified as being undercover police and military. It is a tried and true tactic.

        Speaking of manufacturing sectarian conflict, are you at all familiar with John Negroponte and Col. (ret) James Steele and the use of the Salvadoran option in Iraq? Not the same here, of course, the modalities are different, however the objective is the same. I provide a link for those interested. Much more educational than Alex Jones.
        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/06/el-salvador-iraq-police-squads-washington

      • Mooser
        August 15, 2017, 11:47 am

        “You are like these Zionists who troll these “anti-Semitic” websites getting their fair share of virtual, vicarious anti-Semitism.”

        Sorta like that, not exactly, but pretty close.

    • jd65
      August 13, 2017, 10:56 pm

      Hey Keith:

      Allow me to offer a dissenting opinion. I am not in favor of counter demonstrations which frequently and needlessly become confrontations, often violent. Not only does this result in increased publicity for the original demonstration, but creates the psychology of being under attack on both sides.

      I agree with this.

      As to Bryan’s question directed at you, “Sumud is also a waste of time and energy?, he is equating Palestinian “Sumud” w/ a counter demonstration at a political rally. I don’t see this as a good analogy/equation. I understand Sumud to be resistance. Having your beloved homeland occupied and stolen, being regularly slaughtered, being controlled by a government that you are not allowed to participate in, having your freedom of movement denied and your economic capabilities cut off, not being allowed to enter/return to your country of origin or heritage, constantly being unfairly demonized as terrorists by your occupiers and the world’s superpower is not the same thing as having to endure a rally by a group of people whose ideas you abhor. No Bryan, this counter demonstration was not the same thing as Palestinian resistance. And anyone who reads this post and thinks I’m some kind of neo-Nazi or Trump supporter, all I can say is Fuck You.

      • Mooser
        August 14, 2017, 11:59 am

        ” And anyone who reads this post and thinks I’m some kind of neo-Nazi or Trump supporter, all I can say is Fuck You.”

        You had me, I was 100% with ya, until that final “Fuck You”.

      • jd65
        August 14, 2017, 5:09 pm

        Hey there Mooser:

        You had me, I was 100% with ya, until that final “Fuck You”.

        Sorry, man. Not my intention to offend. Two things about that: I use “curse words/four letter words/swear words” because they’re good at emphasis; not to push buttons. So if swear words are generally offensive to you, then you’d better be careful around the internets. I sure hope you’re not telling me you think I’m a Trump supporter or a neo-Nazi, ‘cuz if that’s the case, I guess you now what I’ve got to say…

      • Mooser
        August 14, 2017, 5:16 pm

        “I am not in favor of counter demonstrations which frequently and needlessly become confrontations, often violent.”

        Maybe we should simply turn the streets over to the “alt-right” from dusk to dawn. They can shake down anybody unlucky enough to be caught out for a ‘contribution’.

      • Keith
        August 14, 2017, 6:03 pm

        MOOSER- “Maybe we should simply turn the streets over to the “alt-right” from dusk to dawn. They can shake down anybody unlucky enough to be caught out for a ‘contribution’.”

        Well, you certainly seem to be caught up in the hysteria. Part of the problem with the internet and virtual reality is that it can be used to create virtual mob psychology. Yes, forget about the 1% and neoliberalism. Instead, focus your indignation and energies on some punks, you street fightin’ man you. By the way, is there a significant alt-right presence on all of those military bases you live by? Feeling threatened by virtual anti-Semitism? The alt-right was invented to scare people like you into being loyal Democrats no matter what the Dems do. Because, you know, flyover country is dangerous with baskets full of deplorables. First we fight the red necks to the last man, THEN we worry about the fat-cats.

      • echinococcus
        August 15, 2017, 1:58 am

        Keith,

        First we fight the red necks to the last man, THEN we worry about the fat-cats.

        Bravo!
        And then, when we are done and have assured our victory over the fat cats and have been paid our hush money, only then shall we start withdrawing our support to all the liberaloprogressivodemocrat wars. Trust us, our heart is in the right place.

      • jd65
        August 15, 2017, 12:27 pm

        Hello again Mooser…

        Keith (w/ me agreeing): “I am not in favor of counter demonstrations which frequently and needlessly become confrontations, often violent.”

        Mooser: Maybe we should simply turn the streets over to the “alt-right” from dusk to dawn. They can shake down anybody unlucky enough to be caught out for a ‘contribution’.

        So, to show us all how much you hate Nazi, White Supremacist, and racist ideology, you need to equate allowing a grotesque rally by a few hundred disgusting human beings for a few hours on one day, to allowing these same people to commit actual violent crimes, in the streets, all the time (from dusk to dawn)? This is the type of wildly exaggerated false equivalence you need to write to demonstrate your progressive/liberal/leftist street cred? Has a bar ever been set lower?

      • Mooser
        August 15, 2017, 1:16 pm

        “Jd65” what kind of car was was used in the assault? Tells me all I need to know.

      • jd65
        August 15, 2017, 3:05 pm

        “Jd65” what kind of car was was used in the assault? Tells me all I need to know.

        Barrel o’ laughs, Mooser.

      • Mooser
        August 15, 2017, 3:23 pm

        “Barrel o’ laughs, Mooser.”

        “Just the good ol’ boys
        Never meanin’ no harm…”

      • Keith
        August 15, 2017, 6:18 pm

        JD65- “Has a bar ever been set lower?”

        I might add that something is not being mentioned. The right of free speech even for those who are white supremacists. They did, after all, have a permit to demonstrate, something which the counter demonstrators did not have. Let these jerks blow off a little steam and let the police deal with their actions. I seriously doubt that anyone would have been killed had there been no confrontation and fighting. And yes, the Antifa groups are not pacifists either. I sense more than a little elite involvement in getting the 99% to fight each other while the fat-cats take care of business. I am less worried about Richard Spencer than I am about Bill Gates and a cashless society, or the Dems and war with Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, etc. But Mooser is an street fightin’ man and eager to rile up the Mondo faithful to get on with it, even if street fighting is counterproductive.

        A parting comment and quote. Trump bring fascism to America? Is this a joke? The essence of fascism is the control of the economy through the military. World War II ended the Great Depression, not the New Deal. As a consequence, following WW2, military Keynesianism (a form of fascism) was used to stimulate and control the economy. The US has been covertly fascistic (a warfare state empire) since 1945. It is becoming more overt now due to changes in the political economy. The quote:

        “Modern fascism should be properly called corporatism, since it is the merger of state, military and corporate power.” (Benito Mussolini)

    • Marnie
      August 14, 2017, 12:02 pm

      Keith – I agree. Deprive them of oxygen and see how long they last. Imagine how much quicker the alt-right/nazi/whatevers circle jerk would have been if there hadn’t been an audience or counter-protesters. I supposed they could’ve started throwing punches at each other, fine, no problem, but a 32-year-old woman would still be alive and possibly the 2 police.

      • MHughes976
        August 14, 2017, 2:37 pm

        The question is surely not whether it was wise (it wasn’t absurd) to confront the ‘supremacists’ but whether Trump’s reaction was justified not by the unwisdom but, as he suggested, by the comparably equivalent violence of the counter-demonstrators. I think that there has been no reasonable evidence for this equivalence. It’s important to say that. I can in a way understand why Trump would want to call for civil peace in a way that suggests to his supporters that he hasn’t abandoned them or come to agree after all with Clinton that they are Deplorables but it’s still true that he is, to put it quite mildly, striking a false note. I can understand that he wants to wrap negative remarks up in some sort of good news but his responding to a question about anti-Semitism by implying that his recent election as the candidate of Love would put everything right was hardly substantial or convincing. For the likes of us the question is whether either the ‘supremacists’ or the reaction against them will impact in any way on public opinion about Palestine. My feeling is that both the rise of the Supes, by validating exclusivist nationalism, and their fall, by discrediting everything Nazi, would work out not too badly for Israel.

      • John O
        August 14, 2017, 5:02 pm

        Back in the 1930s, Sir Oswald Mosley’s British Union of Fascists were the UK’s alt-right. They got a fair amount of oxygen – particularly with support from the Daily Mail, then, as now, a horrible right-wing rag. They were stopped in their tracks at the famous Battle of Cable Street, when they tried to march through a part of London where a great many Jews lived. I don’t think anyone was killed that day, but it was touch and go. They were totally defeated once WW2 broke out and Mosley went to jail so fast he didn’t pass GO.

        So, counter demonstrations do work.

      • Keith
        August 14, 2017, 6:50 pm

        JOHN O- “So, counter demonstrations do work.”

        The counter demonstration caused him to be thrown in jail once WW2 broke out? Yes, nothing like a counter demonstration and a World War to set things right. The old one two.

      • Marnie
        August 14, 2017, 11:53 pm

        There was a town (can’t remember the name) where there was going to be a klan rally and the townsfolk decided not to open their doors for business that day, it’s like the town took the day off. The klan had no audience to put on a show for and the townsfolk slept in. It was a small town of course but it was pretty damn cool.

      • Mooser
        August 15, 2017, 11:53 am

        ” Yes, nothing like a counter demonstration and a World War to set things right. The old one two.”

        I knew those counter-demonstrations would cause WW2.

  5. JohnSmith
    August 13, 2017, 11:24 pm

    My idea for a poster:

    We see close-ups of two faces. On the left there is Donald Trump. On the right there is Jared Kushner.

    Above Trump it reads “White Supremacist.” Above Kushner it reads “Zio-Supremacist.”

    Underneth the images it reads “Funny How That Goes Together.”

  6. Marnie
    August 14, 2017, 12:08 am

    “We are going to do everything within our power to stop long-simmering racism and every other thing that’s going on. There’s a lot of bad things that have been taking place over a long period of time. I think one of the reasons I won the election is we have a very, very divided nation, very divided. And hopefully, I’ll be able to do something about that. And I, you know, it was something that was very important to me”, Trump said.”

    He is a living example of how dangerous it is to be completely uninformed of history. It’s bad enough that he has no understanding of world history, it’s horrifying and dangerous. But he has no understanding of the history of the country of his birth. It was america, right? He makes it very very clear that he has no concern for the lives of +90% of the people he serves. When even half of those poor, uneducated, opioid or meth-addicted voters really really understand that their man in that dump of a white house doesn’t give a shit about them, they might actually vote with their conscience instead of their color.

    Donald tRUMP – the great white dope

  7. JLewisDickerson
    August 14, 2017, 12:27 am

    RE: “We have to come together as Americans, with . . . true affection for each other…” ~ Trump

    MY COMMENT: I hate to disappoint President Trump, but I can’t muster any true affection for white supremacists!

  8. Marnie
    August 14, 2017, 1:00 am

    Educational blast from the past

    Don’t Be a Sucker 1947 – YouTube

    Video for don’t be a sucker – 1947 17:26

  9. Brewer
    August 14, 2017, 6:48 am

    Keith is on to it.
    This is about History in more ways than one. It is symptomatic of a populace who do not know, have never learned and do not understand what History is or how it works. It is a perfectly predictable result of the criminal degradation of the education system from an institution that fosters citizenship to factories churning out robots for industry.
    The increasing polarization of groups within Western societies can be traced directly to the relegation of the Humanities from roughly 75% of the curriculum to a fringe discipline, a process that has been ongoing for forty or so years.
    “A society ignorant of its past has no future” is well known aphorism but there is more to it. History is complex and fluid. It is not a collection of dates and facts. It is not a simple narrative of good versus evil as Americans are mislead to believe. The Israel project is a classic example of a future created by the distortion of the past.
    The protagonists in this debacle are two mobs inspired by fictitious and simplistic symbols they believe have meaning whereas they are based on the lies that accompany all warfare. None of them know the first thing about the real History of the American civil war.
    I could go on but, good grief, why do I bother. A society that has turned over stewardship of its most precious culturally defining process to Hollywood, is informed by a corrupt media and rates itself in purely material terms is hell-bent.
    Expect more of the same from a populace that has displaced inquiry and the pursuit of deeper understanding of the drivers of conflict in favor of labels like “Nazi”, “anti-Semite”, “Communist”, “Fascist” – while having no comprehension of the real human concerns on both sides that drive people to extremes..

  10. StephenKMackSD
    August 14, 2017, 10:02 am

    I found this essay very informative, but quite frankly, quoting Chris Cillizza on the perennial mendacities of Trump is dubious to say the least! Re-read his utterly obsequious comments on racist Andrew Breitbart, where else but The Washington Post?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/what-andrew-breitbart-meant-to-politics/2012/03/01/gIQA2zqckR_blog.html?utm_term=.3f4b160f0de3

    StephenKMackSD

  11. mcohen..
    August 14, 2017, 5:31 pm

    John o ….re:the grenfell fires.this is what led to my theory.i could be wrong.it is just hunch with no back

    http://tapnewswire.com/2017/06/91842/

    • John O
      August 15, 2017, 3:59 am

      Wow, what an authoritative source! An anonymous blogger, extrapolating from a report that the guy who raised the alarm tried to take some of his possessions with him, that it must have been an inside job by MI5. And I thought the 9/11 conspiracy theorists were crazy.

      • mcohen..
        August 15, 2017, 12:14 pm

        Yeah the site does look a bit dodgy.mostly fake news.my apologies

      • John O
        August 15, 2017, 12:29 pm

        @mcohen

        Thanks. Accepted.

  12. yonah fredman
    August 14, 2017, 10:31 pm

    Part of me rebels against people who abstained in the november election now complaining about trump, but he’s your president too, so you’re allowed to complain.
    trump is bad news.
    now, as far as how to react to nazis marching in the street, there really is no right answer, not at this stage. it is a tactical decision.
    (i am opposed to disruptive marches. i’m not a big fan of marchers marching onto highways for example, no matter how much i agree with their cause, which brings me to the next factor and that is emotion.) people react emotionally to waving a nazi flag.

    • John O
      August 15, 2017, 1:05 pm

      @yonah fredman

      “people react emotionally to waving a nazi flag.”

      Most of us react logically. Nazism brought about a war in which 60 million people lost their lives, as well as the Holocaust, the worst attempt at genocide in history. Any attempt to revive it is to be opposed with all our might.

  13. mcohen..
    August 15, 2017, 1:09 pm

    Annie about payback and pushback

    http://www.barenakedislam.com/2017/06/16/was-the-london-grenfell-tower-fire-revenge-for-all-of-the-recent-islamic-terrorist-attacks-taking-place-in-britain/

    Watch the YouTube interviews

    It might appear that the alt left and right are the same side of the coin.and that the alt lefts penchant for liberal causes puts it in bed with supporters of terrorist attacks unknowingly.surely you do not believe that these sides cannot be exploited for political reasons.

    As I said before white right wing anger needs to addressed.if senators playing baseball can be shot,cars driven into crowds what’s next.
    rotten morality will get people killed on both sides.

    • Annie Robbins
      August 15, 2017, 1:39 pm

      ok mcohen, it’s an islamophobic site that claims “One Muslim woman thinks so” with a youtube video that is no longer available.. the other videos substantiates the claim “Apparently, there were a lot of Muslims in the tower” but their claim “Most aid organizations and eye-witnesses seem to be Muslims, too” based on 3 videos is not substantiated. news reports stated residents were “Black and Minority Ethnic people, and they were all poor (the nature of living on a council estate).” nonetheless it could be true the majority of residents were muslim, i don’t know and it’s rather irrelevant to the ‘coin theory’, or narrative being repeated/pushed.

      alleging It might appear that the alt left and right are the same side of the coin is nuts. a penchant for liberal causes does not put anyone in bed with supporters of terrorist attacks. the fact a person or group can be “exploited for political reasons” doesn’t put that person or group on the same side of a coin as self defined nazis or nazi supporters, it puts them on a different coin altogether.

      rotten morality will get people killed on both sides.

      true, but if all it takes to land on the same coin as nazis is getting killed by nazis, then victims of nazis (including jewish victims of nazis) would be on “the same side of the coin” — which is absurd.

      at least that is how it appears to me. one has to do more than string a bunch semi coherent sentences together to make a logical point.

  14. mcohen..
    August 15, 2017, 10:06 pm

    Thats wicked pulling my comments.i was just starting to settle in for a great fireside chat.

  15. mcohen..
    August 15, 2017, 10:10 pm

    Annie Robbins August 13, 2017, 2:23 pm

    check out this quotation from the @nytimes https://twitter.com/JStein_Vox/status/896723151417225217

    “i see both the social justice alt-left and the white supremacist alt-right as two sides of the same coin.”

    this concept is being normalized by both the president and the paper of record. unreal.

    • Annie Robbins
      August 15, 2017, 10:38 pm

      mcohen, perhaps i should review our exchange thoroughly because it’s likely my perception of what you were trying to communicate was impacted by my impressions/experience of the other mcohen. iow, maybe i was missing your point altogether.

Leave a Reply