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The New York Times tries to make the Ahed Tamimi story go away

US Politics
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The New York Times ran a piece today on the very different ways that Israelis and Palestinians see the slapping incident involving 16-year-old Ahed Tamimi and an Israeli soldier. It is titled, “Acts of Resistance and Restraint Defy Easy Definition in the West Bank,” and is by David Halbfinger.

The article does everything it can to reduce the power of the case, in which a brave 16-year-old girl whose cousin was just shot stands for the inhumanity of the occupation. No, the whole point of the article is to make Israel supporters who may have heard about the incident shake their heads over Dual Narratives, and then move along.

Here is the Times‘s model for the whitewash:

1. Make sure the print edition does not include a single one of the striking, now-viral photos of Ahed Tamimi’s brave resistance.

2. State nowhere that Israelis are occupiers, and settlements (colonies) are illegal under international law.

3. Slyly slip in the following paragraph: “That her family appears to encourage the children’s risky confrontations with soldiers offends some Palestinians and enrages many Israelis.”

4. Barely mention the fact that the illegal settlement/colony of Halamish has taken over the village of Nabi Saleh’s access to its spring, and make no effort to report on who is right. Instead treat the matter as On the One Hand/On the Other.

5. In the first sentence, make the Israeli soldier look like the victim: “A teenage girl, a kaffiyeh over her denim jacket, screaming in Arabic, repeatedly punches, slaps and kicks a heavily armed Israeli army officer, who faces her impassively, absorbing some blows, evading others, but never hitting back.” (Make sure you stick in the kaffiyeh and the “screaming in Arabic:” perfect Orientalist gems.)

6. Have settler Yossi Klein Halevi drive home the point, that the Israeli is the victim: “My first reaction was I was proud of the soldiers, but I was also ambivalent: Is this going to invite more attacks, and more serious ones?”

7. Add another obnoxious paragraph: “.  .  . the scene of the young woman being hauled away may have given the Palestinians the clear-cut propaganda coup they had been denied by the original confrontation.”

8. Leave till the 13th paragraph the information that hours before the encounter an Israeli soldier shot Ahed Tamimi’s cousin in the face. Leave out the cousin’s name, Mohammed, and the extent of his injuries. No, you have to go to al Jazeera for that.

Mohammed Tamimi, who is 14 or 15, following a six hour operation after being shot in the face. Photo from Al Jazeera.

9. Quote 6 Jewish Israelis, and only 4 Palestinians. But above all, don’t quote any member of the courageous Tamimi family, even though they were featured in Ben Ehrenreich’s landmark New York Times magazine piece on Nabi Saleh. And even though the slapping incident took place when the soldier had invaded their property.

P.S. Louis Allday, a PhD candidate at London University’s School of Oriental and African Studies, who is digitizing colonial records, agrees:

[A correction: The original post said, “(Most people still engage with the Times on paper).” In fact, the Times has 2.5 million digital subscribers vs. 1 million print subscribers.]

 

57 Responses

  1. Walker
    December 23, 2017, 3:32 pm

    Outstanding piece, Mr North.

    • Citizen
      December 23, 2017, 8:10 pm

      Yes, it is–thank you, Mr. North.

    • Emory Riddle
      December 24, 2017, 9:53 am

      Israeli “restraint”. Shoot a 15 year old kid in the face, storm a family’s house during a protest, later send 20 plus soldiers to arrest an unarmed 17 year old girl and her family as well for the crime of embarrassing Israel.

  2. LostinAlaska
    December 23, 2017, 5:30 pm

    What else can we expect from the NY edition of the Jerusalem Post?

    • Kathleen
      December 24, 2017, 8:25 am

      Indeed

    • Misterioso
      December 25, 2017, 12:29 pm

      @LostinAlaska

      Meanwhile:

      https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/.premium-1.831027?utm_source=smartfocus&utm_medium=email&utm_content=www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/.premium-1.831027&utm_campaign=Amira+Hass&utm_term=20171225-06:42&writerAlerts=true

      “In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians Aren’t Legally Blonde”

      “The Tamimi family jokes about everything, but had the bullet hit just a half-millimeter to the side, they wouldn’t have had a son at all.”

      By Amira Hass. 25.12.2017 – Haaretz

      EXCERPTS:

      “Blond, that’s how the Israelis remember the children from Nabi Saleh, who don’t greet the armed soldiers invading their homes with flowers and chocolate. So for a start, here are three facts. One, there are also children with brown hair and green eyes. Two, Israel has stolen and is continuing the steal the village’s land and springs, by means of the Halamish settlement. And three, as I’ve written in the past, the people of Nabi Saleh are real jokesters.”

      “It was from them that I heard this historical joke: The first Tamimi came from Saudi Arabia. Before Islam, he had been a winemaker. The Prophet Mohammed was trying to convince him to move to Hebron, to help him spread his message there. What will I find in Hebron, Tamimi asked. They grow marvelous wine grapes there, came the persuasive answer. And thus the Tamimi family settled in Hebron and spread from there throughout Palestine.”

      “I didn’t hear any jokes at the hospital where Mohammed Tamimi has been for over a week. On Friday, December 15, he was shot in the face with a rubber-coated metal bullet, at very close range, by an unnamed soldier. This doesn’t upset the Israelis. The boy had climbed a ladder leaning against on the wall surrounding a vacant house, in whose yard or shed soldiers were posted. When Mohammed’s head poked over the wall, he was shot; the entry point of the bullet was just below his left nostril.”

      “After construction began on [the illegal Jewish settlement,] Halamish, on the lands of Nabi Saleh and other villages in 1978, an American journalist came to interview the villagers, they say. “How long have you been here,” he asked the village elder. The elder took the reporter by the sleeve and led him to the top of a hill overlooking a green, cultivated wadi. “You see the wadi, young man? When Adam and Eve were frolicking there below, we were already here.”

  3. MHughes976
    December 23, 2017, 5:57 pm

    It is indeed a ‘neat microcosm’ of the whole civilisation vs. terrorism theatre of absurdity. And it will be believed with no resistance by very many readers, including all readers who are politicians. She not only screw she’d but screamed in her own language!

  4. JosephA
    December 23, 2017, 7:17 pm

    I am amazed that so many people still hold the New York Times on such a high pedestal.

    • Kathleen
      December 24, 2017, 8:30 am

      Have avoided fact based reporting having to do with the I/P issue for decades.

      Then we have the despicable death creating (Iraq WMD lies cooked up by Judith “I was fucking right” Miller’s false reporting before the invasion.

      Buckets of blood all over that news outlet

  5. JWalters
    December 23, 2017, 7:59 pm

    Thanks for the continual reporting on the New York Times’ lying treachery.

  6. Citizen
    December 23, 2017, 8:16 pm

    New York Times’ lying treachery. So much for the duty to inform consent.

  7. Rob Roy
    December 24, 2017, 1:48 am

    Thank you so much for this piece. Every time I read anything about Israel/Palestine in the New York Times, the Washington Post, etc. I do what Mr. North does…take it apart line by line and note the Israeli-sided tone and omission of facts that a trustworthy journalist/publication would include. It’s a mystery to me why, instead of keeping excellent journalists, these pro-Israel propaganda papers fire them and hire those who will toe the company line. Sickening, because people are duped by these papers that somehow retain the veneer of respectability.

  8. Marnie
    December 24, 2017, 3:27 am

    There’s an equally ridiculous ‘editorial’ from Haaretz missing the point and praising the IOF for their restraint, while also claiming israelis have to care about how the occupation looks to the rest of the world (like it should look – horrible). Put lipstick on it and it’s still a pig. Haaretz missed the point and focused on BS instead.

    Editorial // Israel Must Free Ahed Tamimi
    The government has to start caring more about what the international community thinks and less about extremists on the far right, which is why the detained 16-year-old Palestinian girl should be released
    Haaretz Editorial | 
    Dec 23, 2017

    “On the same day her cousin was shot in the head by Israeli soldiers, Ahed went out into the courtyard of her house with a relative and tried to drive out the officer and soldier who stood there – at first with words and shouting, and later with punches and kicks. The two soldiers demonstrated praiseworthy restraint and didn’t respond to the attacks. The IDF won respect for the behavior of its soldiers, including an article in the New York Times that praised the soldiers’ restraint.”

    The IDF won respect for the behavior of the soldiers? In what universe? These soldiers are being vilified by their fellow soldiers with the typical taint of calling them ‘trannies’ and Bennett made his disappointment known along with miri regev’s bitching about how this made the IOF look and the disgusting israeli ‘rapper’ said the IOF has been ‘castrated’. The cherry on top for me was the praise Haaretz gave the NYT. Takes a douche to know a douche.

  9. CigarGod
    December 24, 2017, 10:59 am

    Great breakdown, James.
    Yes, we have to dissect everything we read and listen to these days. NPR, is a great 101 level course. If we want to leave a comment in many daily papers, we have to carefully craft it so it gets by the teenagers who moderate them.

    As you have done and as Phil has done lately, if we want to understand the depth of the issue, we need to start talking in depth about the specific individuals and why there is such inordinate influence.

    That is a challenging thing to do while trying to respect everyone’s race, color, sex, national origin, political affilation, religion, or age.

    I don’t know why we have to tiptoe all around it when the Zionists and their sycophants don’t.

  10. LHunter
    December 24, 2017, 5:43 pm

    Yet another liberal Zionist dancing and snaking his way through the facts and issues focusing on the less significant, avoiding context, side stepping or glossing over Palestinian grievances while throwing praise at Israel for the smallest of things.

    IMO the biggest obstacle to acheiving freedom and equal rights for the Palestinians are these liberal Zionists who have access to huge audiences.

    Employed openly racist reporters allowed to spin their racist beliefs in an accommodating biased forum. What does that make the NYT? A propaganda rag at best.

    • Marnie
      December 24, 2017, 11:50 pm

      I think you hit the nail right on the head with that one LHunter. I’ve come to believe that ‘liberal zionists’ are no different that right wing israelis with the exception that they speak english perfectly because most are native of english-speaking countries, they’re much better actors (very good at looking sad or disappointed) and they get along with everyone – orthodox, conservative, reform, hasidic, settlers, lehava, the IDF. Yep, that’s everyone who counts, right?

    • echinococcus
      December 25, 2017, 2:18 am

      IMO the biggest obstacle to acheiving freedom and equal rights for the Palestinians are these liberal Zionists who have access to huge audiences

      To say nothing of those who have a hand at the helm of Palestinian solidarity organizations, forums etc.

  11. Marnie
    December 25, 2017, 3:50 am

    On a bright note –

    Lorde cancels Israel show after criticism

    THE KIWI singer has cancelled her upcoming concert in Tel Aviv after the being pressured to join a boycott of Israel.
    NZ Herald
    news.com.auDecember 25, 20171:54pm

    LORDE has cancelled her show in Israel after facing criticism.

    Fans had demanded the Kiwi songstress join the Boycott Divestment Sanctions Movement which is making a stand against Israel’s oppression of Palestinians.

    The movement encourages artists to cancel their performances in Israel with Lauryn Hill, Elvis Costello and Vanessa Paradis among the performers who have done so in the past.

    Grammy award-winning Lorde had announced her world tour on Twitter, confirming she’ll perform in Tel Aviv next year on June 5.

    But Israeli media reported today that she had cancelled the show.

    Israeli news site YNET quoted a statement from organisers confirming the change.

    “We regret to announce the cancellation of the Lorde concert in Israel planned for June. The tickets already bought will be reimbursed within 14 business days. As to the circumstances that led to the cancellation of the show, Lorde is expected to publish a statement via Twitter soon.”

    Lorde has not yet tweeted herself.

    Israel’s Culture Minister is calling on Lorde to reverse her decision.

    Miri Regev has dubbed the cancellation ridiculous, and is urging the 21-year-old Aucklander to reconsider.

    Lorde has joined a growing list of artists who now refuse to perform Israel, in protest of the country’s treatment of Palestinians.

    Jerusalem Post reporter Amy Spiro also believes Lorde should reconsider.

    Earlier in the week, Janfrie Wakim, spokesman for the New Zealand Palestine Solidarity Network told Newshub: “We think it’s a very unwise thing for Lorde to have accepted.

    “Israel should be boycotted until it complies with international law and the norms of human society.”

    Fans expressed their disappointment, telling Lorde to use her profile to make a political stand.

    “Don’t play in Tel Aviv while they have the Palestinians under a brutal occupation! Very disappointed in you! Boycott Israel,” one woman wrote.”

    On a sad note, Miri Regev is upset. Bwaaahhhaaaahhhaaaahhhhaaaahaaaahhhhhaaaaaa!!!!

    • catalan
      December 25, 2017, 10:30 am

      “Lorde cancels Israel show after criticism” Marnie
      So the logic goes like that – an Israeli buys a ticket for the concert and learns that the concert is cancelled. So then he says, you know what, I will accept the demands of BDS, so that there can 7 million more Muslims in Israel and I can live in an Islamic state like Iran. Because Lorde regularly performs in Iran and Saudi Arabia, you know, prior to public executions of gays and adultresses. With logic like that, much success awaits the Palestinians.

      • Marnie
        December 25, 2017, 11:29 am

        I don’t know what you’re talking about Catalan, but I’m pretty sure I don’t really care. I’m happy when anyone sees the light and decides not to play the ‘white city’. As far as I’m concerned, no one should enjoy a concert until everyone can.

      • catalan
        December 25, 2017, 11:52 am

        You don’t know what I am talking about? Ok, I will try to dumb it down. I am bringing up the irony of refusing to play in Israel while she is not allowed to play in any Arab country including Gaza. Get it? You are boycotting the one country where you are even allowed to play. She can’t boycott Iran or Gaza or Saudi Arabia because she cannot play there in the first place. Because they don’t allow cultural expression undermining “Islamic values”. And the goal of the boycott is to make Tel Aviv Islamic, so that she won’t be able to play there. So she is boycotting a concert in order to not have any other concerts.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 25, 2017, 12:03 pm

        the goal of the boycott is to make Tel Aviv Islamic

        this is your idea of dumbing it down?

      • Misterioso
        December 25, 2017, 12:13 pm

        @catalan

        Sigh.

        Yet another stupid comment. Why do you bother? You’re just flailing about making fool of yourself.

        Then again, keep it up. The Palestinian cause appreciates your self-defeating efforts.

      • Talkback
        December 25, 2017, 12:48 pm

        Catalan “I will accept the demands of BDS, so that there can 7 million more Muslims in Israel …”

        That’s not a problem, because Israel is a democracy with equal rights, right? It would be different if it was a racist Apartheid Junta.

        But BDS doesn’t demand every refugee to return. The vast majority of them is not even interested. It just demands the RIGHT to return for those who wish to.

        You would demand the same rights for Jews that fled or were expelled, wouldn’t you?

      • Marnie
        December 25, 2017, 1:54 pm

        Thank you Annie, Misterioso and Talkback – I had no idea WTF he was talking about. The brighter bulbs prevailed!

        I’m not hip to Lorde, I’m too old, but it seems that it will be a long time before she runs out of venues. So glad she is not coming here and so are a lot of her fans I bet.

      • RoHa
        December 25, 2017, 6:38 pm

        “This is your idea of dumbing it down?”

        It looks a pretty dumb claim to me. How dumb do you want him to be, Annie?

      • US Citizen
        December 25, 2017, 9:52 pm

        @canneloni – afraid of Muslims in Tel Aviv? You better get with the program.
        Demographic trends mean that Israel can’t have it all.

        It can’t be a Jewish state, a democratic state, and a state in control of its whole mythologial land.

        It can only have two of its objectives at a time.
        Israel can be Jewish and territorial — but not democratic.
        Or it can be democratic and territorial — but not Jewish.
        Or finally, it can be Jewish and democratic — but not territorial.

        The exquisite irony is that Israel and you are so blinkered you won’t even recognise the single-state when it hits you in the face.

      • eljay
        December 26, 2017, 8:53 am

        || catalan: You don’t know what I am talking about? Ok, I will try to dumb it down. I am bringing up the irony of refusing to play in Israel while she is not allowed to play in any Arab country including Gaza. Get it? … ||

        Got it:
        – The “moral beacon” and “light unto the nations” state of Israel should further emulate Saudi Arabia, Mali, African “hell-holes”, China and 19th century America and stop offering gigs to foreigners so as to avoid boycotts.
        – Lorde and other artists should firmly refuse to play gigs in (war) criminal states that have not offered them any.

      • Tuyzentfloot
        December 27, 2017, 8:08 am

        Annie said:this is your idea of dumbing it down?

        It’s part of the war on parody.

  12. yonah fredman
    December 25, 2017, 7:45 am

    “settler Yossi Klein Halevi” settler is not used here to describe Halevi, but rather to dismiss him. The comments section here resembles that remark.
    Looking at Geneva accord maps of jerusalem. A likud govt. would only agree to such a map under extreme duress last seen in the first days of the yom kippur war, and such a scenario seems extreme. Maybe the tipping point in the Democratic party can revolutionize their party’s attitude in a few short years.
    Been following this story nonstop since 73, so you newcomers might see what I’m missing.
    The Geneva accord map of Jerusalem does not entice. It is a cold vision. Better than the current state, an aspiration rather than conflict. Its day is not quite near.

  13. Marnie
    December 25, 2017, 8:28 am

    Samantha Bee speaks out about

    Apocalypse Soon | December 20, 2017 Act 2 | Full Frontal … – YouTube

    Video for apocalypse soon full frontal 6:46

    • Ellen
      December 25, 2017, 5:20 pm

      A gig like that would never have been aired five years ago, maybe not even three years ago.

      The link between Zioland and Evangelicals and their wacked out ignorant supporters is going mainstream.But this is a link Isreali leadership nurtured for Money an political support. Chickens are now coming home to roost.

      No sane Jew will want to be near that. It is an embarrassment. And so will be Zionism and the Israeli colinial Project. But the damage to Judaism is done. It will take time to cleanse of Zionism. There is hope.

      • Marnie
        December 27, 2017, 1:35 am

        I was ‘gobsmacked’ at her candor. I noticed the audience was pretty sedate during this bit – the effect of hearing the truth spoken so clearly and coherently without a bit of sugar coating. I love her – she doesn’t mince words at all.

  14. Mick
    December 25, 2017, 1:04 pm

    Not much has changed at the nation’s “newspaper of record” over the years. As this 20-year-old piece reveals, censorship has long been the rule when opportunities arise to publish the Palestinian side of the story or a perspective that would be helpful to Americans.

    http://ifamericaknew.org/media/halsell.html

    In the 1960s and 1970s, before going to the Middle East, I had written about the plight of blacks in a book entitled Soul Sister, and the plight of American Indians in a book entitled Bessie Yellowhair, and the problems endured by undocumented workers crossing from Mexico in The Illegals. These books had come to the attention of the “mother” of The New York Times, Mrs. Arthur Hays Sulzberger.

    Her father had started the newspaper, then her husband ran it, and in the years that I knew her, her son was the publisher. She invited me to her fashionable apartment on Fifth Avenue for lunches and dinner parties. And, on many occasions, I was a weekend guest at her Greenwich, Conn. home.

    She was liberal-minded and praised my efforts to speak for the underdog, even going so far in one letter to say, “You are the most remarkable woman I ever knew.” I had little concept that from being buoyed so high I could be dropped so suddenly when I discovered—from her point of view—the “wrong” underdog.

    As it happened, I was a weekend guest in her spacious Connecticut home when she read bound galleys of Journey to Jerusalem. As I was leaving, she handed the galleys back with a saddened look: “My dear, have you forgotten the Holocaust?” She felt that what happened in Nazi Germany to Jews several decades earlier should silence any criticism of the Jewish state. She could focus on a holocaust of Jews while negating a modern day holocaust of Palestinians.

    I realized, quite painfully, that our friendship was ending. Iphigene Sulzberger had not only invited me to her home to meet her famous friends but, also at her suggestion, The Times had requested articles. I wrote op-ed articles on various subjects including American blacks, American Indians as well as undocumented workers. Since Mrs. Sulzberger and other Jewish officials at the Times highly praised my efforts to help these groups of oppressed peoples, the dichotomy became apparent: most “liberal” U.S. Jews stand on the side of all poor and oppressed peoples save one—the Palestinians.

    How handily these liberal Jewish opinion-molders tend to diminish the Palestinians, to make them invisible, or to categorize them all as “terrorists.”

    Interestingly, Iphigene Sulzberger had talked to me a great deal about her father, Adolph S. Ochs. She told me that he was not one of the early Zionists. He had not favored the creation of a Jewish state.

    Yet, increasingly, American Jews have fallen victim to Zionism, a nationalistic movement that passes for many as a religion. While the ethical instructions of all great religions—including the teachings of Moses, Muhammad and Christ—stress that all human beings are equal, militant Zionists take the position that the killing of a non-Jew does not count.

    Over five decades now, Zionists have killed Palestinians with impunity. And in the 1996 shelling of a U.N. base in Qana, Lebanon, the Israelis killed more than 100 civilians sheltered there. As an Israeli journalist, Arieh Shavit, explains of the massacre, “We believe with absolute certitude that right now, with the White House in our hands, the Senate in our hands and The New York Times in our hands, the lives of others do not count the same way as our own.”

    Israelis today, explains the anti-Zionist Jew Israel Shahak, “are not basing their religion on the ethics of justice. They do not accept the Old Testament as it is written. Rather, religious Jews turn to the Talmud. For them, the Talmudic Jewish laws become ‘the Bible.’ And the Talmud teaches that a Jew can kill a non-Jew with impunity.”

    In the teachings of Christ, there was a break from such Talmudic teachings. He sought to heal the wounded, to comfort the downtrodden.

    The danger, of course, for U.S. Christians is that having made an icon of Israel, we fall into a trap of condoning whatever Israel does—even wanton murder—as orchestrated by God.

    • MHughes976
      December 25, 2017, 2:21 pm

      The words of Grace Halsell, quoted above, are a remarkable illustration of what PEP (as Phil has led us to call them) have been like for so long. All very poignant. I note that Ms. Halsell’s NY Times obituary says nothing at about her work in the ME, which thus became an un-event.

      • Jon66
        December 25, 2017, 8:03 pm

        Hughes,
        Many progressives support the Palestinian cause and many progressives support Zionism.
        Many conservatives support the Palestinian cause and many conservatives support Zionism.
        There are even pro-Palestinian and pro-Zionist Nazis and fascists.

        The simplist explanation for these variances is that the I/P issue is not a conservative or progressive issue. Gay rights, women’s rights, etc are all supported by progressives and opposed by conservatives. Support of Palestinians does not appear to be a defining issue of progressivism or conservatism.

      • John O
        December 26, 2017, 11:18 am

        @Jon66

        “Many conservatives support the Palestinian cause …”

        Would you care to name one, because I can’t think of any. As a dogged reader of readers’ comments on the very Conservative Daily Mail website (it’s a dirty job, but someone has to do it), I can assure you that supporters of the Palestinian cause are rarer than hens’ teeth .

      • echinococcus
        December 26, 2017, 11:43 am

        For John66, in his infinite cluelessness,

        Gay rights, women’s rights, etc are all supported by progressives and opposed by conservatives

        Get it?

        John66 is just as progressive, then, as the NSDAP: after all, S stands for Socialist and A for Workers.

      • John O
        December 26, 2017, 1:29 pm

        @Jon66

        As usual, all that you can compare Israel favourably with are countries such as Iran and Yemen. When you quote Ireland, Italy and Iceland, give us a call.

      • MHughes976
        December 26, 2017, 2:33 pm

        Sir Alan Duncan comes to mind as a critic of Israel who survives in leading Conservative circles. They’re not too thick on the ground, I admit. But I don’t think there’s any logical reason why people who believe in capitalism rather socialism or in traditional rather than novel institutions shouldn’t also believe in human rights or shouldn’t recognise the imperfect nature of human rights in Palestine sufficiently to deny the proclaimed moral principles of Z. I hope that more of them will join our side. Many people who are progressive in the sense of being critical of traditional institutions make great play of human rights and there is something poignant about the career of those few in those progressive circles who have tried to point out the importance of Palestine and have been abandoned by their friends and at least to an extent unpersoned Orwell style. It was spooky to read three obituaries, NY Times, W Post, LA Times which dwelt exclusively on her (slightly strange) earlier career as a pro-Black writer and made no mention (in the LA case a few words which would convey almost nothing to those not in the know) of her pro-Palestinian phase. Something poignant about her situation, something sinister about what they did. But it worked, did it not? Grace Halsell is all but forgotten.

      • Jon66
        December 26, 2017, 7:11 pm

        John,
        You appear to have misread my response. I was directly answering your question about naming conservatives who oppose Zionism and support Palestinians. I was making no comparisons.
        Do you disagree that these countries are both conservative and anti-Zionist?
        Do you see my point that you can be both conservative and anti-Zionist?
        Zionism is not a fundamentally progressive issue or large numbers of conservatives would not oppose it.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 26, 2017, 10:24 pm

        phil wrote an article called Conservatives for Palestine, i rec: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/03/conservatives-for-palestine/

        Do you disagree that these countries are both conservative and anti-Zionist?

        jon, you didn’t ‘directly answer:’ (“Would you care to name one”), you named countries. and did i miss something? did someone argue there were not both conservatives and progressives supporting palestine? or is asking you for an example (presumably from the US and not yemen) because it sort of seems, and please correct me if it’s in the thread and i missed it, but it seemed as tho you brought it up earlier rather out of the blue as if you were responding or countering someone. what was it specifically you were initially addressing? was it hughes

        “The words of Grace Halsell, quoted above, are a remarkable illustration of what PEP (as Phil has led us to call them)”

        because a PEP is not the same as a conservative. it’s someone who identifies as progressive (read halsell’s whole exceptional article for context) and a humanitarian for everyone but palestinians. and she gives really good examples. what did you think of the article?

      • Jon66
        December 26, 2017, 10:56 pm

        Annie,
        I assumed the point of “name one” was to provide examples of conservatives who are pro-Palestinian. If I had responded that my uncle Stu is is one that would not have been helpful. I have provided a number of countries whose leaderships and significant numbers of citizens are both extremely conservative and pro-Palestinian.

        My point is not that PEP is the same as conservative, but rather that PEP is a bogus term. Progressive except for Palestine implies that Palestine is a progressive issue. The fact that conservative support Palestine, but do not support other progressive causes means that it is not a progressive stance. As I said earlier, you can fall anywhere on the political spectrum and be pro-Palestine. If it were truly a progressive issue then conservatives would oppose it. It is an issue that cuts across progressive and conservative thinkers and therefore not a progressive issue.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 27, 2017, 4:45 am

        My point is…. that PEP is a bogus term. Progressive except for Palestine implies that Palestine is a progressive issue. The fact that conservative support Palestine, but do not support other progressive causes means that it is not a progressive stance.

        it’s a progressive stance if one supports it for progressive or humanitarian reasons. did you read Grace Halsell’s article?

        Times highly praised my efforts to help these groups of oppressed peoples, the dichotomy became apparent: most “liberal” U.S. Jews stand on the side of all poor and oppressed peoples save one—the Palestinians.

        that’s what a pep is. a person who supports palestinian rights because they “stand on the side of all poor and oppressed people” will not be supporting it for the same reason a conservative might. that doesn’t mean it’s not a progressive issue. it just means it’s not exclusively progressive. iow, don’t presume a progressive who support palestine does it for the same reason a conservative might.

    • LHunter
      December 25, 2017, 3:56 pm

      @ Mick

      Once again the liberal Zionists or PEPs (if there’s a distinction please let me know) championing the cause of the underdogs, aligning themselves to the left, sympathetic to the victimization and marginalization of various ethnic groups EXCEPT the Palestnians.

      They show up to all the charitable events and galas, shake hands and hand out smiles, make donations, write articles and letters to the editor, attend marches/protests but NEVER on behalf of the Palestinians.

      Dressed in style, well manicured and spoken, highly educated and well positioned – a formidable group of bigots who do, IMO, the most harm in spreading the truth about the history and plight of the Palestinians.

      Those who know little about the I/P conflict are easily swayed by the charm and rhetoric of these PEPs/liberal Zionists who they see as committed to human rights and the elimination of bigotry. Those like yourself, who have availed themselves of the facts/context of the I/P conflict, can not be swayed without being dishonest to yourself and your values.

      Thank you for sharing your thoughts/insights.

    • Marnie
      December 25, 2017, 11:54 pm

      “In the teachings of Christ, there was a break from such Talmudic teachings. He sought to heal the wounded, to comfort the downtrodden.”

      Which is why it was so easy to kill him – he was telling the truth from the word, not the collective arguments of rabbis. He also told his followers not to call him rabbi. He would be killed here again, most likely in Gaza or a place like Nabi Saleh, where I think he would be peacefully standing up to the IOF.

      • Jon66
        December 29, 2017, 1:03 pm

        Echi,
        I don’t view gay rights, women’s rights, workers rights, civil rights, or the environment as “vanity” issues.

        I think you are confusing Marxist with progressive.

    • Jon66
      December 27, 2017, 10:43 am

      Annie,
      “it’s a progressive stance if one supports it for progressive or humanitarian reasons.”
      I read the article. I obviously disagree.
      Issues are either progressive or not. Take gay rights for example. It’s a progressive issue. Conservatives don’t support it. You wouldn’t say progressive except gay rights. The issue is universally acknowledged as a progressive issue. Like income inequality, etc.
      Can you name another issue that is accepted as a progressive position that is opposed by so many progressive and supported by so many hard line conservative govts/people?

      • echinococcus
        December 27, 2017, 3:26 pm

        Issues are either progressive or not.

        Wrong. What counts is how you want them solved, duh.

        Take gay rights for example. It’s a progressive issue.

        Wrong, that’s an issue where all “Democrat” imperialist stooges are agreed, and almost all “Puke” imperialist stooges opposed. The left doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the uniformed murderers being allowed to be transvestite or not, or the Zionist army being all-homosexual or not. One way or the other, it’s all gallows bait.

        You really sound like a home-grown Zionist.

      • Jon66
        December 27, 2017, 11:17 pm

        Echi,
        You have me even more confused.
        So there are no issues that are progressive? Gay rights, income inequality, environmentalism. The progressives view these issues as problems which require solving. Conservatives don’t view them similarly. A progressive is not someone who takes a different approach to achieving gay rights, but rather is someone who views gay rights as the issue/goal. You seem to be reducing the definition of progressive to a set of tactics. Marriage equality in America was a progressive issue, conservatives don’t have an approach to solving it because they don’t view it as a legitimate goal.
        How would you define a progressive?

      • echinococcus
        December 28, 2017, 11:25 pm

        Is Johnny 66 really as clueless as he lets on?

        So “progressive” for him is about vanity “issues” as redefined by the imperial warmongers, i.e. the right of women and transsexuals to become war criminals and uniformed murderers just like their more moronic “straight” cavemen.

        Not about fighting or joining colonial invasion and imperialism, respecting international law or committing war of aggression, siding with the oppressor or the oppressed in the class war.

        A Democrat Zionist with the extra dose of clumsily feigned cluelessness.

      • Mooser
        December 29, 2017, 12:42 pm

        “Is Johnny 66 really as clueless as he lets on?”

        “Echin” he’s “a husband, father, and surgeon.”

        .

      • Mooser
        December 29, 2017, 5:37 pm

        I get the creeps every time I read that line.

  15. DavidDaoud
    December 25, 2017, 3:02 pm

    This Al Jazeera article starts off like this:
    “”” Bethlehem, occupied West Bank – Ahed Tamimi, a prominent 16-year-old Palestinian activist, has been detained during a pre-dawn raid on her home by the Israeli army and border police in the occupied West Bank.”””

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/palestinian-ahed-tamimi-arrested-israeli-forces-171219174834758.html

    It’s important to note that the Israeli army raided the Tamimi home in the middle of the night!

  16. Talkback
    December 27, 2017, 3:06 am

    3. Slyly slip in the following paragraph: “That her family appears to encourage the children’s risky confrontations with soldiers offends some Palestinians and enrages many Israelis.”

    Yep. To confront the occupiers not only offends some of the occupied, but also many of the occupiers. Even Goebbels couldn’t come up with such a propaganda.

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