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Total number of comments: 3365 (since 2009-07-31 16:31:30)

Chu

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  • Friedman prepares American Jews for a divorce from zealot Israel
  • Handling holy hypocrisy at holiday season
    • I thought it was foggy, murky writing. What are the similarities behind Easter and Passover. Really not much.

      "Christians are accomplished empire travelers. As a whole Jews have only recently been invited to the Christian empire table. "

      So Christians invited Jews to the empire table. Not sure about that even it this is supposed humor ~ more of a smoke screen.

  • 'Not a single person in this room would accept living as Palestinians do, generation after generation'
    • Avigail has this great comment on her site:

      "I also write for a very selfish reason. When one day, Israelis stand trial for the occupation and the war crimes against the Palestinian people, I would like to be counted as someone who spoke up. I was brought up on stories of the Holocaust. I was told that perhaps even more despicable than the Nazis themselves were all those who knew what was happening and allowed it to happen. Jews have always felt abandoned by a world full of bystanders. Being a bystander doesn’t mean doing nothing. It means collaborating. And I don’t want to be a collaborator." link to avigailabarbanel.me.uk

  • 'There's a lot of anti-Semitism out there' -- Johansson reviews her role as 'new face of apartheid'
    • People of the Lie. (what a book.)

      According to Peck an evil person:
      1.Is consistently self-deceiving, with the intent of avoiding guilt and maintaining a self-image of perfection
      2 Deceives others as a consequence of their own self-deception
      3 Projects his or her evils and sins onto very specific targets (scapegoats) while being apparently normal with everyone else ("their insensitivity toward him was selective"
      4 Commonly hates with the pretense of love, for the purposes of self-deception as much as deception of others
      5 Has a covert intolerance to criticism and other forms of narcissistic injury
      6 Is unable to think from the viewpoint of their victim

    • The part about Soda Stream employing Palestinians was egregious. Chomsky used to reference a white slave owner in the US who said something like 'our slaves prefer it here, they get to work and have a good life.' Her regurgitation of this propaganda line was the worst thing she has said so far.

    • come on- completely ignorant -more willfully ignorant. You think she worked at Oxfam all those years in Africa and never heard of the Gaza Prison Camp? Her acting career is winding down, and she is grasping for some extra cash.
      With this action, I'd say she is probably paying off her tithes to Hollywood and Zionism. This is the favor being returned.

    • Scarlett's 'brand' cant patch the dyke of Israel intransigence and oppression of Palestinian lives. She is a band-aid on a major leak that cant be stopped.

  • Oren says Pollard 'sacrificed himself for the Jewish people'
    • Zionism really needs a hero at this point in time. So this traitor is the best thing they can scrounge up. Desperate times? I think so.

  • 'A Painful Price': The escalating war on Palestine solidarity at U of Michigan and beyond
    • Pro-Israeli brown-shirt organizations are a strong force to reckon with on any campus. Employing deception, dirty tricks and slander is something that is difficult to fight as campuses aren't used to major intn'l political debates on US campuses. Campus administration instincts are to protect anyone from danger, no matter how scurrilous the charge may be.

      And surely the pro Israel groups use to their advantage the preconceived notion of Jews being historically victimized (Picture the Jewish parents and organizations telephone-bombing the university president with threats from endowment withdrawals to law suits).

      Eventually the tactics of brown-shirt Pro-Israel groups will start to emit a foul odor even while their playbook tactics are becoming more obvious to campuses nationwide. And Pro-Israel organizations, want to be seen as a victim, but yet are some of the dirtiest players of this game (Ask any US congress member).

      US citizens are going to see the disconnect one day en-masse, and the mob mentality will have a new look. Just look at the comments in any newspaper regarding Israel and AIPAC.

  • MJ Rosenberg’s conundrum
    • I think it they really want a pure Jewish state they should offer up
      the lands they stole from 1948.

      With that land they can aim for a pure ethnic enclave - problem solved.
      Rosenberg and friends win with a little sacrifice.

  • 'The Shondes' singer Louisa Solomon endorsed BDS, so-- DC JCC cancels her band's gig
    • Hipsters need a voice that represent something else besides slackerdom. Someone like Louise could wake up the blase mass.

  • It's the borders, stupid
  • Boteach posts censored videotape of Columbia debate
    • Boteach is great. More of him please. He believes himself to be some sort of renaissance man of Judaism, but if your not a believer of Zionism and Israel, he comes across like a greasy salesman.

      No wonder he was routed in the New Jersey election. He selling something people ain't buyin'; except Zionists think he's relevant, but he's a joke. Kosher Lust? Serious gauche I'd say...

  • Let Pollard go. But first get answers from Tel Aviv
    • It would be useful to hear the reasons why the authors of the post come to this conclusion. As far as not befriending Christians, this is the provincial attitude of many Jews in NYC. Because there is a diverse population of different ethnicities, one doesn't have to be friends with actual Christians that worship and believe (because there are enough Christians that say they are Christian in name only). There's an attitude in nyc that most Christians are primitive, while Jews are really the progressives in town. It's why crazies like Boteach are taken seriously, with books like Kosher Passion, or whatever he is calling his latest. Not that it's true, but that what the common belief is moreoften.

    • It's all myth-making Woody. They need a hero to worship because there are a depraved state that can't stop the occupation. This country (by and large from comments of articles I've scanned) want Pollard to serve till his death, but in Jonestown he is some sort of knight of the realm. No wonder politicians say there's no daylight between our nations, otherwise complete bullshit like this may get laughed at by the blogging world (not the msm of course).

      American Jews more loyal to Israel? I can't say, but if you look at all the major Jewish organizations they are completely for Pollard's release. So do the major organization speak for the populace of American Jews? I would say yes, they are only 2% percent of the population. But what about the 98%?

    • 'it’s 99-1 against the release of Pollard.'

      You got that right. Look at most comments sections. Here' sRuth Marcus on WaPo.
      'Free Jonathan Pollard' 300 plus comments, nary one in favor of his release.

      link to washingtonpost.com;

    • good question. And to make this statement [He’s a pathetic guy who’s suffered enough. ] without a clear explanation doesn't help.

      This media story has also become more about the desperation of Obama and Kerry, while making Pollard out to be a sort-of victim/pawn between governments.

    • USA looks like a paper tiger that has been infiltrated long ago by religious cultists hell bent on making their desert death cult bloom at any cost. But chalk it up as Another straw for the camel's back.

      If Israel had a a knighthood, Pollard would be knighted. That's how warped this thing has become. A known dirty traitor for one ally, a hero for the other ally.
      Is there a similar historical case where another allies spy may have been so reveled by an allied nation? I can't think of one.

    • Funny to watch the Zionist left casting Pollard as a 'victim' of the political system. The beltway chorus is really singing for Pollard's release. Ruth Marcus article today titled 'Free Jonathan Pollard' makes him sound like a hero. I think the cake is probably already baked on this one, as so many leftist (npr) Zionists seem to be chanting his release. Even Big man John McCain is on board.

      Foxman even goes as far to blame the continued incarceration as evidence of anti-semitism:

      "the continuing imprisonment of this person long after he should have been paroled on humanitarian grounds can only be read as an effort to intimidate American Jews. And, it is an intimidation that can only be based on an anti-Semitic stereotype about the Jewish community, one that we have seen confirmed in our public opinion polls over the years, the belief that American Jews are more loyal to Israel than to their own country, the United States. In other words, the underlying concept which fuels the ongoing Pollard incarceration is the notion that he is only the tip of the iceberg in the community. So Pollard stays in prison as a message to American Jews: Don’t even think about doing what he did. I come to this conclusion with much sorrow and, as noted, as someone who resisted efforts early on to connect the Pollard affair to anti-Semitism. It is harder and harder to do so any longer."
      link to newsmax.com

  • Liberal Zionists are the new front line against BDS
    • Left wing Zionist subterfuge is worth it's weight in gold. One hand
      will always wash the other when it comes to Israel's crimes.

      I expected it from MJ, but Roger Cohen was a surprise.

      It seems that Jews are not going to be able to figure out Israel alone
      and they continue to lose allies in their defense. It's an enigma that
      they've trapped themselves inside - they've lost the key.

  • JJ Goldberg says Adelson's influence fulfills anti-Semitic belief
    • Rockefeller, Carnegie and Morgan aided William McKinley to the U.S. presidency by paying for his 1896 campaign, to avoid a possible attack on monopolies.

      Adleson and Friends are doing the same, looking out for Israel and it's illegal occupation.
      Billionaires will always game the system for their whims.

  • British architects vote to ban Israeli group from industry association over expanding settlements
  • Some pro-Israel images to ease you into the weekend
    • "Shillman believes in the Jewish philosophy of Tikkun olam, and sits on philanthropic boards of The Friends of the Israel Defense Forces, The Jewish Foundation for the Righteous and the David Horowitz Freedom Center" link to en.wikipedia.org

      Tikkun Olam (repair the world) for whom though? Is it a self serving (group serving) meme?

  • Eyewitness account of Israeli soldier killing Palestinian judge reveals barbarity of occupation
    • "Israeli guard pointing his gun against poor Palestinian man in his 38th years, & his only guilt to be killed was just because he told the Israeli soldier do not insult me, he was just smoking out the bus & the soldier pushed him cruelly so once he said no for that he killed him as if he is killing an animal , I saw his hand it didn’t shake at all while he was killing that poor man with out any mercy...after all that they pulled him on the ground from his legs away & they ignored him for more than half an hour they left him bleeding with the blood almost covered all his body till he left the life."

      There it is. If this were a story about a Jew in the concentration camps and the SS guard did this, it would be made into a big screen Hollywood film and all the critics would praise the film and excoriate the evils of the SS. Terribly sad how hypocrisy rules in the Israel narrative, and this man -this judge, is left to sit there on the road and bleed out.

      The world knows what is happening and it's why Israel is so despised by the world. But Zionists can't see beyond the bubble. I dare Brian Lehrer of NPR (or any other coward) to report on this story. He won't because he carries the water for Israel, while claiming to be a liberal (the US version of liberal).

  • Kerry isn't satisfied by Israeli minister's non-apology for calling Obama a wimp
    • The nation of Israel sits like a fattened eaglet in it nest, waiting for it's next meal. Probably it's past time to learn how to fly and do things on your own. Zionists talk about being so bold, but they really can't do it without the assistance of the US. A lot of chest beating, but they never really became independent.

    • The USA provides the nation Israel with billions of dollars every year, and this is how it's treated? It doesn't matter if Ya’alon despises the current president or not, when you lob criticism like this at the president, you are criticizing a nation, which is their only ally and central to their survival.

      The problem with the Jonestown cult is that they started to believe years ago in a recycled Manifest Destiny that's filled them with delusions of grandeur, when in reality they are a tiny state (10,425 sq. miles) that is ranked 4th least like in the world. (link to haaretz.com). Facts are hard things.

      I can see if they were critical of the US, perhaps if they were paying us for our military technology or providing us something useful and significant. But they aren't and all they do is criticize us while breaking international law. Something is plainly wrong here.

  • Video: SodaScream -- Bubble trouble
    • smart spoof. Well done.

      I saw a young white college student at NYU the other day.
      Her T shirt read -

      'Hip Hop is Bigger than the Occupation'

  • Johansson got career boost from 'comic farrago' over SodaStream -- 'New Yorker'
    • Zionists are using her name and image, and she is using them for moolah. I don't think she is a cloaked Zionist, just someone took an opportunity. She's young and will regret her decision eventually - probably regrets it now, but can say it.

  • 'Visit Palestine'--My personal message to Mayor Bill de Blasio
    • DeBlasio looks like a fake with his positions. If Palestinians had deeper pockets he would be singing for them. He can't afford to anger Zionists because they have a lot of financial backing and they hold a superior grudge.

  • NYC Community Board member calls BDS 'the face of anti-Semitism'
    • It's unfair for Brett Firfer to do this. Contact the firm he works
      at and let them know he aims to intimidate people. If he is a
      representative of a company, he should know how to behave
      on their behalf. Someone else can take his place, if he can't
      handle the public spotlight.

  • State Dept to 'check out' vicious attack on Palestinian athletes
    • blood is thicker than water with Zionists, and their wallets are much deeper.

    • very strange behavior from the political class. When they sing the praises of Israel and we hear what is really happening. It make s me think of the politburo in 1984. When people say Nancy Pelosi is a big liberal, yet she is at every parade for Israel in Cali, you become witness to how shallow the US political system is.

    • What a vicious cycle. Israel's army is so completely depraved (the examples are endless), but then the Israelis defend their army with terms like 'most moral' and the Jewish diaspora defends Israel regardless.

      Beyond this structural pyramid, there is no more 'real' support though. America isn't really Israel's ally, more it's just a larger corporate state power that is duped by the forces of the AIPAC, the Israeli Government, and the media circus.

      If people like Naftali Bennet are the mouthpiece for Israel's new Hasbara, people will get the idea much quicker what Israel is really up to. I encourage more of these Zionists to show the world what they're really about. When I see some one like him defending Israel on BBC, all I need to do is forward the links to others and say ' i told you so'.

  • Anti-Defamation League exploits fear of Muslims to undermine anti-gay bill
    • Lol. what an odd comment. I'll take a muslim cab driver any day over any American Israeli-Firster . If a cab driver refuses service to a drunk,it's probably good practice to avoid them. Do you think a Muslim who see's a woman heading to a party with a bottle of wine in a bag will refuse her service in St. Paul? This is loose ground for your prejudices, and the ADL's as well.

      in Manhattan, it happens all the time. Brooklyn suburbanites can't get a ride to their borough because cabs don't want to drive that far. Cabs don't have to pick up anyone, and can find an excuse to avoid any unwanted person in their cab.

      And the key word here is also Alcohol. The article is not saying they wouldn't be picked up because people are Christians, but because they are drinking. Hardly comparable to the daily measures of racism that Israel performs, yes, the ones which you are so quick to defend.

  • Netanyahu mentions 'BDS' 18 times in denouncing movement and its 'gullible fellow travelers'
    • BDS is the counter movement to the pro zionist diaspora. They can't be caged in like Palestinians, so it's going to be a lot harder of a fight. And calling them anti-Semites is really going to backfire for the Jonestown Zionists.

  • 'Politico' leaves Israel off list of 25 'awkward allies' of U.S.
    • Politico has poor judgement. Why invent a list when your too cowardly to put the most awkward ally at the top of the list? How do they make the Sauds no. 2 on the list but Israel gets no mention. Obama and Yahoo are completely awkward, everyone recognizes this.

  • Obama warns Israel about delegitimization, and Oren suggests annexation
    • They have too many fundamentalists in their gov't at this point. Craziness has been on the rise since the death of Rabin. Logic and rationality don't seem to equate in the minds of Israelis.

  • Scarlett Johansson is featured at AIPAC, to applause
    • Does anyone know if she gave the Israel Project the right to photoshop a tattoo of Israel/Palestine on her back in the ad on NYTimes? I would assume she didn't and the Israel Project went ahead and did it without consent and approval.

      link to nytimes.com

  • The Israeli Occupation Presents: IDF Diversity Week
    • Katie - you could have used some rainbows on the uniforms to push it over the top, but great cartoon. It's too bad there isn't a media outlet like Saturday Night Live that could pick this up and act it out. A skit like this on you-tube is Way-More powerful than any flash mob, cause people love to laugh at hypocrites!

      The US Military would never use such a desperate left wing campaign to promote a militant cause. Only Israeli suberfuge could come up with such a unique concept.

  • Photos: Israeli police threaten international journalists at gunpoint
  • Thought experiment. Dateline Ukraine
    • US Media are the mouthpiece of pro US rhetoric, and Israel needs to maintain that it's on the side of uncle Sam to ensure it survives. Although from what I've seen over the past decade, it steals and connives from the very power center it claims to be of and represent.

      It's like Washington's corrupted beltway politics, only on a global scale.

  • NYT's Jerusalem bureau chief: 'I come knowledgeable about the Jewish American or Jewish Israeli side of this beat'
    • Rudoren could disappear from the pages of the Times tomorrow and no one would care. She isn't a great journalist and not many have time today to read someone who is struggling to create a sense of interest in a one sided illegal occupation success story.

      It's inevitable Rudoren is another petard that will be expelled from the bowels of Zionism. Her or anyone coming to act neutral on behalf of a newspaper, when her entire existence has been living with Jews in Brooklyn and now in Jerusalem. She is bound to sound like she has no perspective because, by and large, she doesn't. NYTimes is afraid to stop defending Israel, so it installs this reporter to try to make the case that Israel is doing good, but wait for it... because there is 'soo much conflict' in the middle east today!

    • And notice how the US is the shield for her soft core view on Israel. Later she goes into her teen years as a United Synagogue Youth in Israel from America. Isn't this the same reporter who said she was heading to Jerusalem with an open mind right b efore she embarked? She further said that she didn't know much about the conflict and was willing to see and understand and report for the NY Times.

      But, it's not her problem as much as it is the New York Times.

  • Memo to Ramaz: UN high school students heard Khalidi speak, and survived
    • Ramaz ( in 2007) boasts a 10% success rate to the top eight universities in the country, but they can't stomach a reality that may be to hard to bear on their delicate psyche?

      I wonder if the school headmaster is afraid that a real talk would damage their self-perception and group perception? I would say they're probably not ready for HARD facts and a real talk.

      But this is no better that having white kids hear about segregation during the old days of the American south. I know Zionists love the effectiveness of this analogy.

  • Liberal Zionists and rightwingers shed differences in effort to save the Jewish state
    • I think when the layers (of the debate) are stripped away and you see the core issue, to the Jewish people in the world it's often about protecting fellow tribal members
      - and since the indoctrination of being a victim for thousands of years [etc.], makes them feel guilty of contributing to the denigration of the tribe (and/or Israel), they will always defend it and draw a line. The victimhood coupled with arrogance and chosen sense of specialness is what makes the entire thing especially smugly corrupt.

    • I wonder if this was always Cohen's position or was he backed into the corner and had to come clean on what he believes in? That's often the issue of soft-core Israel supporters - they fight for something until it's too uncomfortable for them to defend and back away. I'm thinking of Fink (sort of), or Wash Post's Richard Cohen, many more in this class though.

    • also: Cohen (in closing):

      "A Jewish national home is needed. History demonstrated that. It must now be reinvented. For that, the corrosive occupation has to end and with it the settlement industry.B.D.S. is a wake-up call. I oppose it because *I DO NOT TRUST IT. That does not mean, as Lapid intimated, that Israel can ignore its message."

      In the article, he said he doesn't trust the 3rd component of BDS.
      1.Its stated aim is to end the occupation.
      2. secure “full equality” for Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel.
      3. fight for the right of return of all Palestinian refugees.

      He concludes that he does not trust BDS, but he is in accord with the first two stated principles of BDS - end the occupation and secure full equality for Palestinians.
      If he seems to agree with 2/3 rds of BDS why does he not trust it? Wouldn't saying 'I support BDS except for the right of return' be a more fitting tone to end to for Cohen to conclude?

    • (just read) Roger Cohen's piece:

      "The so-called right of return of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians driven out in the 1948 war (whose descendants now number in the millions) cannot be exercised, any more than the Jews of Baghdad and Cairo have deeds to return home. There can, and should be, agreed compensation for the dispossessed, but there cannot be a reversal of history. The “right” is in fact a claim."

      Was this the same guy that moderated the debate between Weiner and Brian Baird? How far we've come! Why do the liberal Zionists always go soft in the end? This (sort-of) reversal from Cohen seems reminiscent of Finkelstein. Why does this happen? It's a bad sign because it look like they are the good cop, until they are forced to be the bad cop. Can they understand how this looks from the outside of the debate?

  • 'NYT' reporter treats boycott as immoral and anti-Semitic, reminiscent of Nazis
    • "You need to focus on antisemitism. That is all you have in life. All your comments on this website are pathetic and express your cowardice in dealing with the issue sincerely without any bullshit or change of subject."

      So true, Yonah. You fail to address the content of the original comment and only nitpick the details. A smoke screen is often serves you well, when you have no substantial counter argument.

  • Revealed: Right-wing group StandWithUs' strategy to combat Israel Apartheid Week
    • What a comment. Once Israelis stops oppressing Palestinians they will have more time to reflect on their culture. It's these type of blase comments that shows how shallow Zionist mentalities are.

    • occupy with us

    • I made the same comment, and I think the national director should try and exhibit some more class. Maybe even some independent thoughts. Groupthink is so trite.

    • Hate Fest? That really isn't politically correct comment from the National Campus Program Director for StandWithUs. Even for a college student, I would think a better reaction is required for the sake of StandWithUs.

      But one person's hate-fest is another groups quest for justice of Palestinians. How could this be misconstrued as hate?

    • The problem with 'I Heart Israel Campaign' is that it's vague. Anti Apartheid lays down a fierce gauntlet and challenge. I don't think the crowds will flock to 'I Heart Israel' - It's way to blase. Are they going to hand out daisies?

    • and it sounds sort-of boring. Stand with Us. ooh scary. How about sit with Us? Recline with Us? snooze...

  • Don't expect this NYT ethicist to talk about the Nakba
    • Ugh, enough with the snake oil salesmen. I was reading on LobeLog, Gareth Porter's new book 'Manufactured Crisis' which is an alternate narrative of the lead up to the war with Iran. He has collected material over the last decade on the efforts of Washington politicians and Israel saying the “US and Israeli policies have been driven by political and bureaucratic interests, not by a rational, objective assessment of available indicators of the motives and intentions of Iranian leaders”.

      It's odd that few newspapers over the last decade have compared and contrasted the lead up to war in Iraq, with the effort to go to war with Iran (stuxnet was cyber-terrorism). There are plenty of similarities of the players. How one massive Iraq war blunder could almost be relobbied for again without the journalists calling the agents of war into the public eye.

      Lobelog review: link to lobelog.com

  • Kerry's wingmen Friedman and Beinart praise boycott, to pressure Netanyahu
    • 'mendacity of the “pro-Israel” establishment' That is the crux of it all. Zionists fund campaigns of political figures indefinitely, but they can't have a fair and open public debate in American univesities, because they would lose. Lies are to easy to discredit today.

  • 'Haaretz' analyst says surging BDS movement may be contributing to falling shekel
    • Even if the former mayor wanted this thing quashed, it's inevitably going to blow-up down the road. Remember that food co-op in Brooklyn a few years ago? People see the small battles and realize this thing is growing.

      Even if Jews have a significant number of people in the state, and lots of Zionist money going to these causes it come down to one thing - most New Yorkers believe in a system of justice, and BDS is aiding the Palestinians in their quest for justice.

      Also the NY big machers know it's in their backyard, and they are not sure if they can handle a street fight like this. I think big Zionist donors will never debate this in public, because they'll lose. Instead the have discussions about it at like say Copper Union, where Jews talk to other Jews and the crowd listens. I'd like to see a fair open and public debate in New York anyday, but Zionists can't win - it's at odds with the mainstream. ~the last sort-of fair debate i can remeber on Israel was in Doha in 2007. link to thedohadebates.com

    • Unless you believe Jews can settle anywhere they want in the Middle East, the SodaStream company is breaking international law, as are the illegal settlements.

      Pepsi has not bought them yet, so it's unknown if they will they close the West Bank factory. If Pepsi buys them, Scarlett can save face though.

  • Scarlett Johansson not only abandons Oxfam but throws it under the bus
    • "but does so cynically and opportunistically by throwing Oxfam under the bus"

      Oxfam is the bus. She got off the bus and went on a charter bus to camp Zion.

  • Lost in Occupation: Scarlett Johansson ends relationship with Oxfam to stick with SodaStream (Updated)
    • Yeah and what's good here is that the Hollywood Zionists and their Israeli business partners can't even get a popular Hollywood actress to sell the rotten fruits of the Israeli occupation.

    • The Noah Browning report confirms my doubts about the Sodastream plant - It's a sweatshop that exploits Palestinians. Maybe OxFam can investigate and shine more light on the plight of the Palestinians. It would benefit Oxfam and Palestinians to encourage this meeting.

  • NY Mayor tells AIPAC: 'Part of my job description is to be a defender of Israel'
    • "Once upon a time, when I knew a lot less than I know now, they would have garnered my sympathy, but not anymore."

      Growing up, we were told that Israel was an ally of the US but now I see that Israel only helps itself like a giant vacuum. If they would have stopped the racket years ago and agreed to a real & lasting peace they definitely would not have the terribly negative perception of the entire world.

      link to jpost.com
      "Out of the 22 countries polled, the majority in 17 of them view Israel negatively, while only three (the US, Nigeria and Kenya) view Israel positively. "

  • Update: 'Blood bubbles' -- mainstream media turn on SodaStream and Scarlett Johansson
    • Dumb move on her part. But Hollywood is a giant racket she is likely filling her coffers before the ride is over. All of Hollywood's big moguls are pro-Zionist and maybe this is one way to get new roles. Someone took her aside and said scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

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