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Jackie Mason says ‘giving’ the Palestinians the West Bank is like giving them half of Florida

Israel/Palestine
on 66 Comments

It seems that ShalomTV interviewed “iconic Jewish comedian” Jackie Mason, then 81, last February. The full interview is here, complete with his use of the word feigele, a derisive Yiddish word for gay man, and his generational humor about gentiles. But two weeks ago someone posted this excerpt on Israel and the occupation on Youtube, to make a political point.

Interviewer Mark Golub asks Mason how he sees the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and he says he sees it the way every Jew does.

I see it the way every Jew sees it. Palestinians just have a false feeling that the Jews are taking over their land when in fact they’re taking over the Israeli land. They don’t belong there… historically, biblically, throughout– by every principle, by every standard, everybody knows, It’s the Jewish land. And we gave up half of our land to them in an effort to achieve peace.

It’s just like somebody’s making a claim on Florida. The guy doesn’t belong there in the first place, but in order to achieve peace, you say, ‘Here, Florida is half yours. Is that close enough?’ You don’t belong there in the first place. If I gave you half my money when you’re not entitled to none of it, but because you’re bothering me so much and you convinced yourself and you believe it– It’s not like the Palestinians don’t believe it. It doesn’t come from just anti-Semitism, like the Nazis. It comes from a genuine belief that it’s their land.

So you try to make peace with them… And no matter how much we gave up, no matter in what ways we acquiesce– by literally giving up half of our land, it still can’t satisfy them. Because they feel Jews don’t belong there at all, and they’re determined to destroy them if they stay there. 

Thanks to Scott Roth, whose response to the interview is unprintable, except for the words, stupid racist unfunny excrement.

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66 Responses

  1. FreddyV
    FreddyV
    August 27, 2013, 11:48 am

    And here lies the problem. Israelis are convinced that they’re the ones making concessions.

    Take a look at this Facebook page I’ve been doing battle on. As you can imagine, the title of the group – ‘Arab – Israeli Peace – A Very Frank, and, Open Discussion’ is never discussed.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/421012931299115/?hc_location=stream

    They all think it’s their land, which given the sheer amount of Hasbara they’re fed, it’s no real surprise. I’m actually feeling sorry for them. Sooner or later they’ll come to know the truth.

  2. Woody Tanaka
    Woody Tanaka
    August 27, 2013, 11:54 am

    It really is sad how many people are so defective in the brain to actually hold these thoughts. It is a mental disease, pure and simple.

    • bintbiba
      bintbiba
      August 27, 2013, 2:40 pm

      What a vulgar ,unfunny man! I am sorry I have been pushed to use this language. He is so offensive, I cannot contain myself.

  3. Abu Malia
    Abu Malia
    August 27, 2013, 12:08 pm

    Is he deluded or just dissimulating? I can’t tell.

    I keep asking myself, where are the Jewish sages? This won’t end well for the Tribe!

  4. Bumblebye
    Bumblebye
    August 27, 2013, 12:12 pm

    Mason has so clearly imbibed and internalised the France/French, Israel/Jewish twaddle. “Jewish land”, “our land”, etc. Does he have Israeli citizenship, or is he American?

  5. seafoid
    seafoid
    August 27, 2013, 12:20 pm

    Zionist Kool Aid induces vomiting faster than Golan Heights “kosher” wine.

    • yrn
      yrn
      August 27, 2013, 1:23 pm

      Seafoid

      Speaking about the Golan Heights…. you can come over and watch how your Idol ASAD is killing his Nation.
      Take some food with you for the party.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        August 27, 2013, 2:18 pm

        Israel is right in there dragging the Yanks to attack Syria.

        So much for the land of milk and honey. More like lies and death.

      • bintbiba
        bintbiba
        August 27, 2013, 2:48 pm

        yrn, your schadenfreude is sickening! Shameful.

  6. eljay
    eljay
    August 27, 2013, 12:21 pm

    >> It’s the Jewish land.

    It’s not “the Jewish land”, it’s the land of the people who lived there. Which, by and large, were not “the Jewish”.

    >> It’s just like somebody’s making a claim on Florida. The guy doesn’t belong there in the first place, but in order to achieve peace, you say, ‘Here, Florida is half yours. Is that close enough?’

    It’s more like somebody wants half of Florida because they believe its theirs to have. So they get someone else to divvy Florida up and give them half. Then they cleanse the indigenous Floridians from their territory so that they can set up a supremacist state. Then they expand and colonize to create a “Greater” supremacist state. And all the while – as they oppress, steal, cleanse, colonize, destroy, torture, hate and kill – they claim victimhood.

    *That* is close enough.

  7. a blah chick
    a blah chick
    August 27, 2013, 12:24 pm

    “…we gave up half of our land to them in an effort to achieve peace.”

    What the hell is he talking about?

  8. Chu
    Chu
    August 27, 2013, 12:26 pm

    “The guy doesn’t belong there in the first place, but in order to achieve peace, you say, ‘Here, Florida is half yours. ”

    When he says GUY, i had to reread who the guy was in this instance.
    But, he sounds no different from 48 year-old Anthony Weiner talking about all of the West Bank is Israel, only 2 years ago.
    Joan Rivers would probably be making the same statements if plastic
    surgery hadn’t kept her in the limelight today. Jackie is 82 and she is 80. Was the borscht belt comedy backroom talk always pro Israel?

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      August 27, 2013, 3:20 pm

      @ Chu
      Yes, the borscht belt comedy was aways pro Israel. Also, always anti-Goy, in a alleged funny way.

  9. Woody Tanaka
    Woody Tanaka
    August 27, 2013, 12:31 pm

    Amazing. If the Palestinians “don’t belong” in Palestine simply because they’re Palestinians, they wouldn’t it also be true that the Jews “didn’t belong” in Spain simply because they were Jews? And if so, then I would that Mason would say that kicking the Jews out in 1492 was a-ok, right? Because how is it wrong to eject someone from a place where they “don’t belong”?

    I always say that if you wait long enough every zionist will evenutally justify the Holocaust in one way or another, and I guess it is true regarding the expulsion of the Jews from Spain, as well…

    • yrn
      yrn
      August 27, 2013, 1:19 pm

      “I always say that if you wait long enough every zionist will evenutally justify the Holocaust in one way or another”
      Another thought of the sick mind of Tanaka
      Ask Hostage or Phil , they take the guilt on them self, As they are always looking for A reason to justify Antisemitism or thoughts of sick people like you.

      • amigo
        amigo
        August 27, 2013, 2:23 pm

        “I always say that if you wait long enough every zionist will evenutally justify the Holocaust in one way or another”
        Another thought of the sick mind of Tanaka” yrn

        Not sick at all.Zionists like you use the Holocaust to justify war crimes and colonialist oppression.See Norman f
        Finkelstein,s book.”The Holocaust Industry”.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        August 27, 2013, 2:51 pm

        “Another thought of the sick mind of Tanaka”

        LOL. Yarny, as you’re clearly been a long-time sufferer from the mental disorder of zionism, being the target of your juvenile name-calling is a token of honor.

        Further, your slander is meaningless. As between the two of us, you are the advocate of the racist, Apartheid, judeo-supremacist state. I advocate for full and total equality for all people from the Med to the Jordan, with all enjoying full human, civil and political rights. You are the equivalent of a Klansman calling someone else a bigot, but without the self-awareness.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        August 27, 2013, 3:27 pm

        @ yrn
        Look at the world history of the Jews getting kicked out of so many countries, Jewish organizations demand you look. So now we have Jews demanding the Palestinians get out of their native land, and doing all they can to force this under post-Nuremberg PR mask. And the USA funds this.

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        August 27, 2013, 3:52 pm

        @yrn and Woody
        I find that it’s usually the wiser path to avoid bringing “the Holocaust” into non-Holocaust conversations. (Current, politicized, Holocaust commemoration is another matter.) Having said that, as a Jew, and coming from a family of Holocaust survivors, I don’t think, you, yrn, are in a strong position to fling accusations at others’ choice of words. Think how a Palestinian hears your rejection of their experience.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        August 27, 2013, 4:19 pm

        Elliot,
        While I appreciate your position, I don’t agree. All too often discussions about the Holocaust rope it off, treat it as an aberration in human affairs, as sui generis (and this is done for many reasons, some okay, some not.) In doing so, I believe that an ultimate injustice is done. Because the Holocaust is, at its very heart, a mere three things. It is 1) people in power, saying 2) “We don’t like you because you’re different than us” and 3) “We do not have to respect your right to the quiet enjoyment of your life.” (The rest, in turns interesting and horrific, are commentary on those three things.) Needless to say, many situations are similar in kind, if not in degree. And that is the rub. One must, in my opinion, reject that in kind and not just in degree.

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        August 27, 2013, 6:28 pm

        Woody,
        I would agree with your comment as a response to the claim that Holocaust is sui generis. Hannah Arendt refuted that argument convincingly. But I still think that’s not the same as bringing it into an unrelated conversation. The Holocaust is everything you said. But it’s not just that. The Holocaust at the least was an “an aberration in human affairs” and not just for my family.
        In other words, just because there is a spectrum of evil doesn’t mean that you have to make that point in an unrelated conversation.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        August 27, 2013, 6:56 pm

        Then we will have to agree to disagree. The Holocaust was an abberation only in the way that every mass human tragedy and horror is an abberation; which is to say it was not an abberation as much as it was a unique example of common human evil.

        I am not talking about a spectrum of evil; I’m talking about the mental content which made the Holocaust and the Nakba and the Transatlantic Slave Trade and the innumberable other examples of the supposed abberations, but commonplace evils, in human history possible.

        In other words, discussion of the Holocaust cannot be unrelated when we are talking about a state (and that state’s supporters) which bases its policies and its legitimacy on the Holocaust when, in the exercise of their power, they say to another people, we do not like you because you are different and we do not have to respect your right to live in peace.

        When Jackie Mason says, in essence, “we have power, you do not belong, and we do not have to respect your rights (in fact, to the extent you exercise them, they are not ‘rights,’ they are an example of our magnanimity)” he is doing far worse than merely being a fool.

      • yrn
        yrn
        August 29, 2013, 5:45 am

        Elliot

        What is the connection between your “intellectual discussion” regarding the holocaust
        and the sick statement of Tanaka
        ““I always say that if you wait long enough every zionist will evenutally justify the Holocaust in one way or another”
        Do you accept it ?

      • john_manyjars
        john_manyjars
        August 29, 2013, 2:09 am

        “Another thought of the sick mind of Tanaka”

        You would know, judging by your twisted view of reality.

  10. Brown-Eyed Girl
    Brown-Eyed Girl
    August 27, 2013, 12:39 pm

    I truly do not know what to say about this. I am speechless. The only thing I can think of is this is probably what white Europeans said when they were fighting Indians and it is exactly what the whites of South Africa said during apartheid. Do you remember how they constantly said that when they arrived in South Africa there were no blacks living there. Truly, they claimed there were NO blacks in South Africa, despite their history being filled with settler wars. They said the blacks came after they arrived because of the progress they made to the lands. This is similar to what the book “From Time Immemorial’ lied about.

    I suppose I would ask Jackie, where does he think the Palestinians came from? Where did they come from so that Israel fought them in 1948, did they land from outer space?

    • Chu
      Chu
      August 27, 2013, 1:29 pm

      More lazy talk from a zionist comical rube. It’s no different than racist southerners in the 50’s thinking everyone black is a lazy negro. Mason was a rabbi before his comedy stint. Even today, where does he entertain, except for Florida and Long Island, NY? He’s a borscht belt yocal, through and through, often seething with hatred and criticism of the world around him, cloaked as comedy.

    • Byzantium
      Byzantium
      August 28, 2013, 3:49 am

      Actually, the official cant was that the whites and blacks arrived at the same time, two settler groups meeting one another half-way. And that was printed in high school history textbooks!

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        August 28, 2013, 1:48 pm

        In 1820, wasn’t the population of the Cape about 50/50 (white/black)?

  11. amigo
    amigo
    August 27, 2013, 1:24 pm

    Nothing new here from this purveyor of racist trashtalk.He is an equal opportunity bigot and all non Jews are a target.

    In an article entitled “Time To Threaten Arabs With Mass Eviction,” published by The Jewish Press on 29 January 2003, Mason and co-author Raoul Felder wrote,

    “We have paralyzed ourselves by our sickening fear of ‘World Opinion,’ which is why we find it impossible to face one simple fact: We will never win this war unless we immediately threaten to drive every Arab out of Israel if the killing doesn’t stop.”

    “http://electronicintifada.net/content/famous-comedian-jackie-mason-incites-genocide-palestinians/4390”

  12. American
    American
    August 27, 2013, 2:03 pm

    Too bad there is never a smart ass in Mason’s audience who will say …’shut up already, we gave the Jews half of Florida , so what’s with the whine about giving half the West Bank to Palestines, you want we should send the Florida Jews to the West Bank and move the Palestines to Florida instead?….
    Be fun to watch his head explode.

  13. seafoid
    seafoid
    August 27, 2013, 2:04 pm

    This was in Native Peoples magazine last year

    “Kennedy remembers arguing with his high school teacher about the treatment of Native peoples in the past. “The teacher said if it’s not in the history books it isn’t true” he relates. But from his own family’s and others’ stories he knew better”

  14. DissedStance
    DissedStance
    August 27, 2013, 2:18 pm

    A pathetic and contracted world-view, and unfortunately a ubiquitous one.
    As the ugly madness of Israeli impunity rolls on, anyone who has the temerity
    to call it what it is– crimes against humanity–is called an anti-Semite.
    What a precarious and insidious platform to base an identity on: poor Jackie Mason–he has to balance on such a morally impoverished house of cards.

  15. Talkback
    Talkback
    August 27, 2013, 3:12 pm

    Isn’t it ironic? I wonder how many Jews live in Florida and according to the logic of this moron ‘don’t belong there’ and should be expelled. And what about Germany, Poland, …

  16. James Canning
    James Canning
    August 27, 2013, 3:20 pm

    Should one find some grim humour in Mason’s claims? Absurd.

  17. bilal a
    bilal a
    August 27, 2013, 3:26 pm

    Mason is beautiful because he is honest , he’s like the Long Island partiers in Tel Aviv, a Max Blumenthol archtype, of a small but proud section of Americaism of any ethnicity, completely explanatory of the vulgarity of the Catskills culture that brought America Hollywood, Vegas, modern Wall Street, Weiner, Spitzer, Filner. Not exactly Fiddler on the Roof.

    Jackie Mason was born Moshe Moaza. Still cant find who Charles Krauthammer’s father was, an officer at the swiss zionist conference that called for terrorism against the British. What was Krauthammer’s (Hammer on Krauts ) real name before that unfortunate pseudonym? Whats the name on his Israeli passport?

  18. seafoid
    seafoid
    August 27, 2013, 3:40 pm

    I think it’s interesting that older J#ws like Mason and Mamet have the memes implanted in their brains and can thus spew out the hasbara verbatim but that Israel has real trouble getting the younger generation to tune in.

    And Israel needs the young people if is going to survive.

  19. DICKERSON3870
    DICKERSON3870
    August 27, 2013, 4:07 pm

    RE: “They don’t belong there… historically, biblically, throughout– by every principle, by every standard, everybody knows, It’s the Jewish land… So you try to make peace with them… And no matter how much we gave up, no matter in what ways we acquiesce– by literally giving up half of our land, it still can’t satisfy them. Because they feel Jews don’t belong there at all, and they’re determined to destroy them if they stay there.” ~ Jackie Mason

    MY COMMENT: Jackie Mason has never impressed me. Frankly, I don’t think he is very bright (or informed). Apparently, the “half of our land” that Israel gave up to make peace is Jordan!
    He strikes me as a particularly obtuse combination of Joan Peters and Benzion Netanyahu.

    SEE – “Bibi’s Father’s Answer to the ‘Arab Problem’: Hang’ Em in the Town Square”, By Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 4/04/09

    [EXCERPTS] Imagine, if you will, if Barack Obama’s real father was Rev. Jeremiah Wright and imagine, if you will, that Wright gave an eight-page interview to USA Today the week of Obama’s inauguration. Then you can imagine the “interest” with which such a ‘Maariv’ interview with Bibi Netanyahu’s father was met in Israeli circles.
    Noam Sheizaf, who works for Maariv, has translated portions of the interview . . .
    . . . And without further ado, I give you, Ben Zion Netanyahu, the father of the man:

    [EXCERPTS] . . . • Question: You don’t like the Arabs, to say the least.
    Benzion Netanyahu: “The Bible finds no worse image than this of the man from the desert. And why? Because he has no respect for any law. Because in the desert he can do as he pleases.
    The tendency towards conflict is in the essence of the Arab. He is an enemy by essence. His personality won’t allow him any compromise or agreement. It doesn’t matter what kind of resistance he will meet, what price he will pay. His existence is one of perpetuate war.”. . .
    . . . • Question: Is there any hope of peace?
    Benzion Netanyahu: …No…The two states solution doesn’t exist. There are no two people here. There is a Jewish people and an Arab population… there is no Palestinian people, so you don’t create a state for an imaginary nation… they only call themselves a people in order to fight the Jews.”
    • Question: So what’s the solution?
    Benzion Netanyahu: “No solution but force… strong military rule. Any outbreak will bring upon the Arabs enormous suffering. We shouldn’t wait for a big mutiny to start, but rather act immediately with great force to prevent them from going on…
    If it’s possible, we should conquer any disputed territory in the land of Israel. Conquer and hold it, even if it brings us years of war. We should conquer Gaza, and parts of the Galil, and the Golan. This will bring upon us a bloody war. . .” . . .

    ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/04/04/bibis-fathers-answer-to-the-arab-problem-hang-em-in-the-town-square

    AND SEE: “The late Benzion Netanyahu’s appalling views on Arabs”, By Larry Derfner, +972 Magazine, 4/30/12

    [EXCERPTS] Below are excerpts from a lengthy April 3, 2009 interview in the Israeli daily Maariv conducted by Sari Makover Belikov with Benzion Netanyahu, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s father, who died Monday morning at age 102. They were translated into English and published the same day by Noam Sheizaf on his personal blog, Promised Land. Benzion Netanyahu, who had a deep, formative influence on the prime minister’s thinking, and who will be widely remembered as a great Zionist visionary, held views on Arabs and war that were simply horrific. . .

    Prof. Netanyahu: The Jews and the Arabs are like two goats facing each other on a narrow bridge. One must jump to the river – but that involves a danger of death. The strong goat will make the weaker one jump … and I believe the Jewish power will prevail.

    Q: What does the Arabs’ “jump” entail?

    A [Prof. Netanyahu]: That they won’t be able to face [anymore] war with us, which will include withholding food from Arab cities, preventing education, terminating electrical power and more. They won’t be able to exist, and they will run away from here. But it all depends on the war, and whether we will win the battles with them. . .

    ENTIRE COMMENTARY – http://972mag.com/the-late-benzion-netanyahus-appalling-views-on-arabs/44215/

    • James Canning
      James Canning
      August 27, 2013, 7:42 pm

      Yes, what total rot from so many aggressive Zionists: that the Jews “gave up” Jordan! Rubbish.

  20. DICKERSON3870
    DICKERSON3870
    August 27, 2013, 4:21 pm

    RE: “Jackie Mason says ‘giving’ the Palestinians the West Bank is like giving them half of Florida”

    MY QUESTION: OMG, does this mean that the Zionists are now claiming Florida as well?

    P.S. RE: “Frankly, I don’t think he [Mason] is very bright (or
    informed)…”
    – me (above)
    ELABORATION: He’s certainly no Gore Vidal! Not by a long shot!

    • john_manyjars
      john_manyjars
      August 29, 2013, 2:14 am

      Mason and the rest of the Zionist apartheid-advocating filth aren’t fit to drink Gore Vidal’s spit.

  21. just
    just
    August 27, 2013, 5:48 pm

    At least FL is/was “ours” to “give”.

    (of course, the indigenous Floridians would have had to give their OK, had they been “asked”)

    This fool named Jackie has a head full of mush, and a really bad dye job. An ugly racist and supremacist and liar.

  22. rensanceman
    rensanceman
    August 27, 2013, 5:48 pm

    For the Palestinians to negotiate with the Israelis for the return of their land would be like a banker negotiating with the theives for a return of its money.

  23. Abdul-Rahman
    Abdul-Rahman
    August 27, 2013, 5:58 pm

    Debunked mythology certainly “dies hard” it seems (especially with buffoons like this in mind)

    Reality:

    Johns Hopkins University geneticist Dr. Eran Elhaik (http://eelhaik.aravindachakravartilab.org/) “The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses”

    http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/5/1/61

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iJN90t2gN6hxGiFQuBv-gYQE060w?docId=CNG.52483183e4e0f60d963361c17572c848.81

    Shlomo Sand http://www.rafapal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Shlomo-Sand-The-Invention-of-the-Jewish-People-2009.pdf

    • miriam6
      miriam6
      August 27, 2013, 11:08 pm

      Abdul [email protected];

      Given your frequent references and apparent hero worship of Schlomo Sand , what do you make of Sands opposition to anything more than a token right of return for Palestinian refugees?

      Also, what do you make of Sands opposition to a one-state solution?

      In this interview Sands seems to me to be hiding behind his belief that according to him as most Israelis oppose it ( and evidence shows he would be right in his assumption), so does he

      But Sand opposes anything more substantial than a token right of return for Palestinian refugees.

      “You cannot recognize Israel’s right to exist and recognize the right of return for six million Palestinians. It is an oxymoron,” he said.

      “Unlike a lot of other leftists I am not in favor of a one-state solution,” he said referring to the proposed incorporation of Palestinians and Jews into a single state between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River.

      When pushed, Sand will admit that he is not “morally opposed” to one-state but that it is merely a “dream,” not a serious political project. “To have one state for the two societies you need the consensus of both societies, and right now most Israelis don’t want that,” he said.

      http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/18203/inventing-israel

      • Abdul-Rahman
        Abdul-Rahman
        August 28, 2013, 11:55 am

        One doesn’t have to support all of Professor Sand’s political views, which I don’t. As he is still apparently (and sadly) a supporter (if even in a “limited fashion”) of a form of ethnocracy.

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        August 31, 2013, 3:13 am

        Abdul-Rahman:

        [Sand] is still apparently (and sadly) a supporter (if even in a “limited fashion”) of a form of ethnocracy.

        I’m not sure it’s accurate to say that Sand supports a form of ethnocracy. He believes, rightly or wrongly, that a one-state solution is simply not a realistic possibility at this time. He supports a two-state settlement as a phase toward confederation and eventually two, or one, fully democratic, non-ethnocratic states.

        Sand:

        If I have continued to be for a two state solution, it is because I am a realist and pragmatic, I don’t think the two states can live separately. Amos Oz wrote a book, we need a divorce, we are two different families. Not at all. The two state solution has to combine a kind of confederation of the two of us because we are living so inside one another. The vision has to come after the two state solution.

        ——–

        I conclude with one thing, democratic and Jewish at the same time cannot be. Because it is an oxymoron

        ———
        […] the two-state solution with the confederation, as you develop a confederation, there are stages. You continue to live in the middle east as a confederation, and one day there will be a free circulation between the two states.

        http://mondoweiss.net/2012/12/shlomo-sand-on-zionism-post-zionism-and-the-two-state-solution.html

        In any case, Sand’s political views are separable from his scholarly work.

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        August 28, 2013, 7:12 pm

        @Miriam – – I of course think Sand’s analysis is sound.

      • miriam6
        miriam6
        August 30, 2013, 8:17 pm

        Which analysis James ?

        His b******t ‘history’ book or his stance on the one state solution / RoR?

        Israel Bartal, dean of the Faculty of Humanities at the Hebrew University, in a commentary published in Haaretz, writes that Sand’s basic thesis and statements about Jewish historiography are “baseless”.
        Bartal answers to “Sand’s arguments (…) that no historian of the Jewish national movement has ever really believed that the origins of the Jews are ethnically and biologically “pure” [and that] Sand applies marginal positions to the entire body of Jewish historiography and, in doing so, denies the existence of the central positions in Jewish historical scholarship.”
        Bartal refers to Sand’s overall treatment of Jewish sources as “embarrassing and humiliating.”

        He adds that “The kind of political intervention Sand is talking about, namely, a deliberate program designed to make Israelis forget the true biological origins of the Jews of Poland and Russia or a directive for the promotion of the story of the Jews’ exile from their homeland is pure fantasy.”
        Bartel summarizes his critique of Sand’s characterization of Jewish historiography as follows: “as far as I can discern, the book contains not even one idea that has not been presented earlier in their books and articles by what he insists on defining as “authorized historians” suspected of “concealing historical truth,”” and calls the overall work “bizarre and incoherent.”[10] For a full updated version of Bartal’s review see now Zion 76 (2011), pp. 509-521.

        For classic rebuttals of Sands ‘history’ of the Jewish people, see Anita Shapira and Israel Bartal’s demolitions of Sands book

        http://en.idi.org.il/analysis/articles/review-essay-the-jewish-people-deniers

        http://ce399fascism.wordpress.com/2010/06/29/israel-bartals-response-to-shlomo-sands-invention-of-the-jewish-people-haaretz-72008/

    • miriam6
      miriam6
      August 27, 2013, 11:20 pm

      Poor Abdul Rahman , still gamely flaunting the ONE dubious history book and the ONE and ONLY genetic study ( the findings of which are in direct contradiction to the findings of the MANY OTHER studies of Jewish genetics over the years ) as so- called proof.

      As for Sand, from whom Elhaik borrowed much of his false historical data about Caucasus peoples , – Elhaik also borrowed a lot of his so – called history from famous kook Arthur Koestler , who in turn relied for his so-called evidence on myths and legends as opposed to real historical fact.

      *****************************************************

      Here , Seth Frantzmann tears Elhaik’s so-called research to pieces

      Not only is Elhaik’s thesis fatally flawed as a study of genetics ,Elhaik’s thesis is also fatally flawed as a historical study;

      However, in the case of Elhaik, the evidence is not only weak and misleading, it is based on numerous sources that are not historical, instead employing conjectures and leaps in logic, as well as claims that cannot be substantiated.

      One of Elhaik’s very first claims, that “contemporary Eastern European Jews comprise the largest ethno-religious aggregate of modern Jewish communities, accounting for nearly 90% of over 13 million Jews worldwide” is said to be based on a publication by the United Jewish Communities in 2003, titled the “National Jewish Population Survey, 2000-01.”

      Except this source deals with the demographics of Jews in the United States.

      An inquiry with Dr. Elhaik resulted in a note that this was a mistake that would be corrected, and that the actual source should be Harry Ostrer’s 2001 paper in genetics, “A Genetic Profile of Contemporary Jewish Populations.”

      Except Ostrer wrote that “contemporary Jewry is comprised of ~13 million people… Among the Jews of the United States, ~90% are of Ashkenazi origin.”

      So right from the beginning Elhaik has made a basic flaw in his use of sources, one that was neither caught by the editors of Genome Biology and Evolution, nor the peer reviewers of his paper.

      Yet it is a claim that should have been caught, for most people who study Jews know that 90% of them are not Ashkenazi and their population is much more diverse than that presented by Elhaik.

      However, the real flaws in this new research are historical. The author claims a massive knowledge of history that has major implications for his findings…

      Cont…

      http://www.jpost.com/opinion/Columnists/Terra-Incognita-The-return-of-the-Khazar-myth

      • Abdul-Rahman
        Abdul-Rahman
        August 28, 2013, 11:51 am

        The “jpost” is a right wing joke rag

        “Seth J. Frantzman is a doctoral candidate in historical geography at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem”

        So we have a wannabee geography teacher there. And your “hero”/again wannabee geography teacher (with no credentials of any kind in the field of genetic research) Frantzman is also a flunky follower of the totally disreputable neocon pseudo “scholar” Daniel Pipes (widely considered the leader of the Islamophobia industry in America) http://fair.org/article/the-dirty-dozen/

        Also you clearly known nothing about genetics, putting aside that the people Dr. Elhaik debunks and exposes themselves admitted to the large scale conversion and admixture in the European Jewish make up (especially from Greco-Roman converts). You may want to see works and names like Dr. Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin, Steven Bray et al. 2010, Ellen Levy-Coffman, etc. etc.

        Let me give you some more reading material there:

        http://www.biologydirect.com/content/5/1/57

        http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03014460110058971

        http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1079979608001046

        http://www.jogg.info/11/coffman.htm

        http://www.pnas.org/content/107/37/16222.full

        http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/08/analysis-of-ashkenazi-jewish-genomes.html

        etc.

        Also apparently your ilk doesn’t understand that Dr. Elhaik’s work is synthesizing (and correcting certain mistakes in) everything that came before him. As his interview with Haaretz noted:

        http://www.salem-news.com/articles/december302012/jewish-gene-oa.php

        For an excerpt:

        “‘My study is the first to propose a comprehensive theory that explains all the seemingly contradictory findings,’ asserts the young scholar (Elhaik) in a telephone conversation from his home in Maryland.”

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        August 28, 2013, 7:09 pm

        Daniel Pipes does put out a good deal of rubbish.

      • john_manyjars
        john_manyjars
        August 29, 2013, 2:18 am

        Pipes is traitorous trash- he needs to be booted out of the USA post-haste, with the rest of the agents of a foreign power he rolls with.

        Then again this is the ’51st State’ and ‘the sole ME democracy’ we’re talking about, so business as usual.

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        August 31, 2013, 3:25 am

        Miriam6 quoting Seth Frantzmann:

        Yet it is a claim that should have been caught, for most people who study Jews know that 90% of them are not Ashkenazi and their population is much more diverse than that presented by Elhaik.

        Frantzmann is making a mountain out of a molehill. Elhaik apparently wrote that:

        contemporary Eastern European Jews comprise the largest ethno-religious aggregate of modern Jewish communities, accounting for nearly 90% of over 13 million Jews worldwide

        And from Wikipedia:

        at their peak in 1931, Ashkenazi Jews accounted for 92 percent of the world’s Jews. Today, they make up approximately 83-85 percent of Jews worldwide.

        .

        So, if Wikipedia is correct, Elhaik’s original “nearly 90%” seems far closer to the mark than Frantzmann’s “much more diverse.”

        Besides, this nitpicking does zero to refute Elhaik’s main analysis and conclusions.

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        August 31, 2013, 3:50 am

        Miriam6:

        Seth Frantzmann tears Elhaik’s so-called research to pieces.Not only is Elhaik’s thesis fatally flawed as a study of genetics ,Elhaik’s thesis is also fatally flawed as a historical study.

        Frantzmann’s polemical hatchet job is full of crude ad hominems and historical nonsense.

        For example, Frantzmann writes:

        The Khazar theory for the origin of the Jews was invented by the womanizing communist intellectual Arthur Koestler in his 1976 book The Thirteenth Tribe.

        Putting aside the “womanizing communist” ad hominem, the statement is an inane falsehood, indicative of either utter ignorance of the subject, or utter dishonesty.

        As Sand explains:

        I repeatedly emphasize in my book that, up until the 1960s, the best historians in the world, including Zionists, wrote extensively on the Kingdom of Khazaria. Moreover, almost everyone – from the Jewish-American historian Salo Baron to Ben-Zion Dinur, the father of Israeli historiography and minister of education in Israel in the 1950s – explained the widespread Jewish presence in Eastern Europe by way of the Khazar immigration thesis…

        http://inventionofthejewishpeople.com/2009/11/shlomo-sand-responds-to-simon-schamas-review-in-the-financial-times/

        ————-

        But neither Polak, a professional historian, nor Koestler, who did not claim to be one, invented the thesis that a large part of Eastern European Jewry originated in the territories of the Khazar empire.

        It should be stressed that this hypothesis—reviled since the 1970s as scandalous, disgraceful and anti-Semitic—had previously been accepted in various scholarly circles, both Zionist and non-Zionist, although it never became the consensus, because of the fears it aroused among the ethnocentric.

        —–

        Ben-Zion Dinur […]—Israel’s minister of education in the 1950s—did not hesitate to join [Jewish historians] Baron and Polak and express an unambiguous position regarding the origins of the Eastern European Jews:

        “The Russian conquests did not destroy the Khazar kingdom entirely, but they broke it up and diminished it. And this kingdom, which had absorbed Jewish immigrants and refugees from many exiles, must itself have become a diaspora mother, the mother of one of the greatest of the diasporas—of Israel in Russia, Lithuania and Poland.”

        Readers today might be astonished to hear that Israel’s high priest of memory in the 1950s did not hesitate to describe Khazaria as the “diaspora mother” of Eastern European Jewry.

        […]the fact is that until the 1960s the assumption that the majority of the Yiddish people did not originate in Germany but in the Caucasus, the Volga steppes, the Black Sea and the Slav countries was an acceptable assumption, caused no shock, and was not considered anti-Semitic, as it was after the early 1970s.

        Shlomo Sand, “The Invention of the Jewish People” (pp. 241-243).

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        August 31, 2013, 5:01 am

        Miriam6:

        Elhaik’s thesis is also fatally flawed as a historical study.

        No, I’m afraid it’s Frantzmann’s historical reasoning which is fatally and ludicrously flawed.

        Frantzmann writes:

        However, the real flaws in this new research are historical. The author claims a massive knowledge of history that has major implications for his findings.

        “There are no records of Caucasus populations mass-migrating to Eastern and Central Europe prior to the fall of Khazaria.”

        The footnote for this is another genetic research study, but a claim like this requires historical knowledge of the Caucuses. In fact, the Caucuses were a place of great human movement from the 15th to 19th centuries.

        The Khazar kingdom fell in the *mid-10th* century, and what elements may have survived where definitely swept away by the Mongol invasion of the early 13th century.

        So how could Causcasian populations movements of during the *15th to 19th* centuries possibly be used as evidence to refute the claim that there are no records of Caucasus populations mass-migrating to Eastern and Central Europe PRIOR TO the *13th century* (at the latest)?

        Apparently, the geographer Frantzmann doesn’t even have a rudimentary knowledge of the history of the region.

  24. kayq
    kayq
    August 27, 2013, 6:51 pm

    Giving the Palestinians the West Bank would be like giving the Indigenous Americans half of Florida.

    This guy’s an idiot

  25. RoHa
    RoHa
    August 27, 2013, 7:24 pm

    Might as well try giving the Palestinians half of Florida. Nothing else seems to have helped.

  26. mijj
    mijj
    August 27, 2013, 8:25 pm

    the mugger is insulted at the very thought that he should return even the tiniest proportion of his spoils.

  27. ritzl
    ritzl
    August 27, 2013, 11:18 pm

    Jackie Mason, flaming and unrepentant racist, still has a platform? For anything?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-207_162-520137.html

    2009: A Chicago comedian scheduled to open for comic Jackie Mason was told hours before the show he couldn’t perform because he is of Palestinian descent, Mason’s manager said.

    Ray Hanania, a 49-year-old fledgling comic, was supposed to open for Mason’s Tuesday night show at Zanie’s comedy club in Chicago. Instead, the club phoned him a few hours before to tell him his act was canceled.

  28. gingershot
    gingershot
    August 28, 2013, 8:56 am

    Man this was an eye-opener – it’s pure sweet Zionism from the horse’s mouth

    All the triumphalism, all the tradition, all the wilful denial, all the true belief, and con and wilful deceit wrapped up in one old Snickers Bar floating in the pool

    Talking to an old con artist like this must be like talking to Netanyahu or a brick wall

    This is why there must be massive external pressure applied to Zionist Israel – these guys are IN IT for the long haul and they will never change from within because ‘within’ is rotten to the core

    • john_manyjars
      john_manyjars
      August 29, 2013, 2:20 am

      The sad thing is, ALL it would take to rein in the zio-bots would be for the USA to, for once (since Ike’s administration) have the guts to cut off the money spigot and stand up to the purveyors of such anti-American ideals as Zionist Israel.

      I can dream, anyway.

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