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Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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34 Responses

  1. just
    just
    December 1, 2013, 1:54 pm

    Thank you JVP.

    I hope something good comes of it.

    (I’m not holding my breath, though ;{ )

  2. Walid
    Walid
    December 1, 2013, 3:26 pm

    Yesterday, to the dismay of a few here, Miriam was in the process of establishing a parallel between the removal of the Indians by the Europeans and the removal of the Bedouins by the Israelis when the thread was shut down. Today, Phil via JVP is headlining the same issue that she was pushing. Is the American removal to be swept under the rug?

    • jimby
      jimby
      December 1, 2013, 4:12 pm

      @ Walid, the removal of the Indians is a matter of great shame.

      • traintosiberia
        traintosiberia
        December 2, 2013, 10:40 am

        But the Natives are now part and parcel of US landscape.They are not ruled by any discriminatory rules or regulation. Above all no outside power is paying US to maintain any discriminatory status that the Native still suffer from. Natives face a different set of problems that the US government is conscientiously aware of and tries to undo the damages which is not prevented nor is being challenged by the majority or by the local neighborhood or by the military .

    • Ecru
      Ecru
      December 1, 2013, 4:54 pm

      The point is Walid that the American actions are not ongoing (within their own borders) whilst the Israeli ones are.

      It’s like the Rwandan regime of the time using the Holocaust to justify their own acts of genocide. Or Neo-Nazis using Medieval treatment of Jews to justify arson against synagogues and beating up Jewish people in the street. Pretty sure Miriam6 wouldn’t be for the historic precedent in that.

    • Donald
      Donald
      December 1, 2013, 7:50 pm

      “Is the American removal to be swept under the rug?”

      No. Why should it be? The analogy between how Native Americans were treated by the US and Palestinians by the Israelis is a pretty exact one. I first saw Finkelstein and I think Chomsky using this comparison many years ago. The odd thing is that sometimes pro-Israel types use American crimes as some sort of excuse for Israeli crimes. Actually, it’s all part of a larger pattern of Western imperial crimes. If miriam wants to make that point, fine.

      • Peter in SF
        Peter in SF
        December 2, 2013, 3:28 am

        The odd thing is that sometimes pro-Israel types use American crimes as some sort of excuse for Israeli crimes.

        This is known as “Everything sucks“, the fourth and final proposition of Zionist propaganda.
        http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-to-make-case-for-israel-and-win.html

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 2, 2013, 4:12 am

        “If miriam wants to make that point, fine.” (Donald)

        I think this is where Miriam was heading, as she started on Western Imperial crimes. Some here are saying that the issue with the Indians, blankets and all, is now ancient history and shouldn’t be revived in discussing what’s been happening to the Palestinians. This is wrong because what the Americans did to the Indians wasn’t only a once only occurrence, there has been a succesion of American atrocities from back then that continues until today; Miriam mentioned Hiroshima and Nagasaki. After those came the napalm and Agent Orange over Vietnam, and the tomahawks over Yugoslavia and Iraq with the DU over Fallujah and Kandahar and now with the drones over Pakistan. All of those aren’t ancient history. The second reason is that Israel looks up to the US as a role model and therefore can’t see anything wrong in their own mistreatment of Palestinians because of America’s historic oppression of others. Isn’t the US supplying Israel with the Bunker Busters and other DU arms as well as the phosphorus?

  3. December 1, 2013, 6:21 pm

    I do not have a knowledgeable position on what is happening in Negev. Obviously I don’t believe the dishonest things Jewish mutants are posting here. Here is a documents in Hebrew for which i have no English translation but it has many photographs of what the history of the Bedouin villages was. Just ignore the text and look at the pictures.

    http://www.regavim.org.il/images/5Myths.pdf

    • Djinn
      Djinn
      December 1, 2013, 11:18 pm

      He’s repeatedly posted Nakba denial and now there this antisemitic bile from the fetid depths of fnlevits keyboard:

      Obviously I don’t believe the dishonest things Jewish mutants are posting here

      Can he be banned already?

    • Ecru
      Ecru
      December 2, 2013, 2:27 am

      “….Jewish mutants….”

      OK – this one needs banning now.

    • eljay
      eljay
      December 2, 2013, 7:53 am

      >> Obviously I don’t believe the dishonest things Jewish mutants are posting here.

      “Jewish mutants”? Really, perfesser?

      Could you please explain – clearly and concisely – exactly what the criteria are for determining whether or not a Jew is a “mutant”? Please don’t omit any.

      Oh, and do non-Jews also get to use the term “Jewish mutants”, or is this something only Jews get to do?

      Thanks.

    • amigo
      amigo
      December 2, 2013, 8:08 am

      “Jewish Mutants” levit.

      Me thinks it is time this troll and Nakba denier was given his pink slip and sent on his way.Let him peddle his racial slurs elsewhere.I suggest the J,POST.

  4. Rusty Pipes
    Rusty Pipes
    December 1, 2013, 6:57 pm

    Andrew Jackson said, “Marshall has made his decision: now let him enforce it” when the Supreme Court opposed the removal of the Cherokees. Israel has been acting virtually the same related to UN rulings and international law in its treatment of Palestinians since the 40s.

  5. December 2, 2013, 3:00 am

    This appeal to the personal qualities of the source of info rather than to the quality of info itself is a ridiculous argument. Like ” Schrodinger equation can not be correct because Schrodinger had been known for having extra marital love affairs. How can we trust such equation?”

    Come on – just look at he photographs in the document and argue if they are real or false. Then I learn something – otherwise it is pure entropy what is generated here.

    Among another grotesque – the “reliable sources” like “electronic.intifada” or “Kate” (?) or “+972” or the shameful UN Human Rights Watch are OK but Wikipedia is considered Hasbara.

    • Shmuel
      Shmuel
      December 2, 2013, 3:09 am

      This appeal to the personal qualities of the source of info rather than to the quality of info itself is a ridiculous argument.

      Not when those “qualities” directly pertain to the information offered. An organisation that aims to dispossess Palestinians and denies their connection to the land can hardly be cited as a reliable source for information regarding the veracity of their claims.

      If I want information on the Holocaust, I would hardly go to the IHR, and pointing out their lack of credibility on this particular subject hardly qualifies as an ad hominem argument.

      just look at he photographs in the document and argue if they are real or false

      That’s just what a Holocaust denier recently said to me (honestly). The racist caricature on the cover page of Regavim’s “dossier” is sufficient to discredit the entire “document”, even without knowing anything about Regavim’s aims or tactics. That you felt that the “pictures” in such a document would be persuasive, without even recognising the blatant racism in the very first image, speaks volumes about your own prejudice.

    • tree
      tree
      December 2, 2013, 3:15 am

      Obviously I don’t believe the dishonest things Jewish mutants are posting here.

      Followed by

      This appeal to the personal qualities of the source of info rather than to the quality of info itself is a ridiculous argument.

      Not only are you a racist, Fnlevit, but you are an amazingly obtuse one at that. You started swinging some extremely vile ad hominems and then have the idiocy to complain about other commenters? Wow.

      • bintbiba
        bintbiba
        December 2, 2013, 6:28 am

        fn levit…..
        “Jewish mutants”????
        Jewish Righteous Heroes !!!! , you foolish man.

    • eGuard
      eGuard
      December 2, 2013, 9:23 am

      Still not banned?

  6. traintosiberia
    traintosiberia
    December 2, 2013, 10:08 am

    Israel often invokes the Munich moment and so does it’s 5th columnist in US every time an opportunity is required to persuade people to intervene in the ME countries . The dispossession of Bedouin that is being debated now is part of an on going Munich moment from 1947 .The world powers who mattered in 1938 gave the land away to Hitler who in turn planned the expulsion of the non Germans. The dispossession of Palestine men and women from their land is nothing but an elaborate ,long drawn process of Munichization .

    • Walid
      Walid
      December 2, 2013, 11:21 pm

      “The world powers who mattered in 1938 gave the land away to Hitler who in turn planned the expulsion of the non Germans.” (traintosiberia)

      I remember reading somewhere eons ago, that after the Jews, the Arabs were the 4th or fifth group on Hitler’s hit list of cleaning up his sick world. The Zionists appear to still hold his overall ideals in high esteem.

      • jon s
        jon s
        December 3, 2013, 2:45 am

        ” The Zionists appear to still hold his overall ideals in high esteem.”
        That’s a horrible thing to say, Walid.

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 3, 2013, 5:45 am

        “That’s a horrible thing to say, Walid.”

        Admittedly, it is very horrible, but how else do I explain the ugliness of the Zionist behaviour with its systematic ethnic cleansing that has been going on from before Israel declared its independence? Add to it the fiddling around genetics, sterilizations, poisoning of water wells, biochemical arms experimentations, phosphorus and the rest of the Zionist package deal and you come out with some horrible terms to describe what’s going on in Israel, the closest one being the one I used. The most horrible thing I know of Hitler is what he did to the Jews and others. Now I see Israelis acting in much the same way with the Palestinians. Writing it was as unpleasant as it was for you to read it, but there is no closer parallel by which Zionism could be compared.

        I was pleasantly surprised to read of your feelings towards the Prawer scheme.

        BTW, this CAPTA thing that was started here today is getting annoying. I passed the test 4 times and I keep getting it every time I post.

      • jon s
        jon s
        December 3, 2013, 6:38 am

        Walid, The ultimate goal of Zionism was to promote the survival and well-being of the Jewish people through the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine ( I assume that you disagree with the means).
        Hitler’s goal was to end the survival of the Jewish people, so Zionism and Nazism were diametrically opposed in their goals.
        The Nazis succeeded in murdering nearly 6 million, around 1/3 of the Jewish people. The Palestinian population, on the other hand, is increasing nicely, both inside and outside areas of Zionist control.
        As to “genetics, sterilizations, poisoning…etc.”- let’s leave out the propaganda.
        What I’m saying is: criticism of Israeli actions and policies is legitimate and often justified. The Nazi analogy, aside from being wrong , is deeply offensive.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        December 3, 2013, 8:26 am

        “The ultimate goal of Zionism was to promote the survival and well-being of the Jewish people through the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine ( I assume that you disagree with the means).”

        Nonsense. The only goal of zionism is the theft of Palestinian lands and the torture, murder and oppression of the Palestinian people.

        “Hitler’s goal was to end the survival of the Jewish people, so Zionism and Nazism were diametrically opposed in their goals.”

        And a Nazi could just as easily whitewash their crimes as you whitewash zionism’s crimes by saying that Hitler’s goal was to “promote the survival and well-being of the Aryan people through the establishment of an Aryan state in Germany. (I assume that you disagree with the means).”

        “What I’m saying is: criticism of Israeli actions and policies is legitimate and often justified. The Nazi analogy, aside from being wrong , is deeply offensive.”

        Sometimes, many times, the Nazi analogy is right on. But further, who gives a damn if you zios find it offensive? If you weren’t acting in ways that bring to mind the Nazis, there wouldn’t be a problem.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        December 3, 2013, 8:27 am

        “That’s a horrible thing to say, Walid.”

        LMAO. Compared to the actions of the zionists, it’s a kiss on the cheek.

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 3, 2013, 9:49 am

        I just got this annoying CAPTCHA thing again, once before I wrote this post and again when I sent it..

        Getting back to serious stuff, you deliberately misunderstood what I wrote. Of course the Nazi’s wanted to wipe out the Jews but the Zionists did not want to wipe out the Palestinians, they just wanted them to disappear from Palestine. What is common to both is the desire to make another people disappear. The means to do it were different, but in the end the Nazis wanted the Jews wiped from the face of the earth while the Zionists wanted the Palestinians wiped from the face of Palestine. What’s the difference? You may find the analogy offensive, and I guess it is, but how much different or less offensive is branding Arabs in general as potential terrorists? The Zionists took it upon themselves (with a little help from actual Arab terrorists) to have mostly everyone look on all Arabs that way. At least I’m using the analogy only on Zionists in particular and not on Jews in general.

      • W.Jones
        W.Jones
        December 3, 2013, 10:14 am

        I got captched too.

      • jon s
        jon s
        December 3, 2013, 11:21 am

        Walid, I disagree. In general the Zionists imagined co-existing with the Arab population. Even Jabotinsky, considered a Zionist extremist, in his well-known “Iron Wall” essay, was envisaging the circumstances which would cause the Arabs to accept, grudgingly, our presence here. He was not considering their removal. That was the consensus in mainstream Zionism.

      • Ecru
        Ecru
        December 4, 2013, 12:30 pm

        @ Jon s

        The ultimate goal of Zionism was to promote the survival and well-being of the Jewish people through the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine ….[SNIP]….
        Hitler’s goal was to end the survival of the Jewish people…

        I completely disagree. Hitler’s aim, mad as it was, was the survival and advancement of the “Aryan” people. He believed that the best way to do this was by the ethnic cleansing of vast tracts of land, replacing local, mainly, Slavic people with German colonists and ultimately the annihilation of the so-called “untermensch” who he believed stood in the way of this goal. The “reclaiming” of what he believed were the “ancestral lands” of the “Aryan people” was a core part of Nazi philosophy as was the prevention of “miscegenation” with the “lesser races.”

        This is strikingly similar to the arguments of Zionism in its endeavour to secure Palestine for Jewish people. We have blut und boden, lebensraum, uber and untermensch and quite a few other things. Yes there are no Death Camps but then there were no Death Camps in Europe until the 1940’s. Was Hitler then not a Nazi in 1933?

        You might find the comparison distasteful but it’s still valid – Zionism like Nazism is an ethno-nationalistic and ethno-supremacist philosophy, both born from the ideas current in Europe from the 19th Century. They are frankly, if not siblings at the very least kissing cousins.

  7. traintosiberia
    traintosiberia
    December 2, 2013, 10:34 am

    Bedouin has been referred as nomadic,lacking any settled occupation or habitat by the Zionist to rob the land and promote a slave labor

    Time magazine in 1979, —

    Last week the Israeli Cabinet proposed a harsh plan that would empower the government to seize 37,500 acres of Bedouin lands, with limited compensation but without right of judicial appeal, and to impel the displaced tribesmen to resettle into new industrial townships…

    Abhorring the very idea of living in industrial townships, the Bedouins argue instead for the creation of their own moshavim, the model agricultural cooperatives that have been especially successful in the northern Sinai. But Israeli government officials have long insisted that the tribesmen are needed as a labor force for new industries that are planned for the Negev. Moreover, the well-equipped, high production moshavim require large tracts and expensive irrigation. And, as one senior official bluntly told TIME’s Lesley Hazleton, “I’m not giving good Jewish land and water to Arabs.“

    The evacuated Bedouins could well have nowhere to go at all for some time. The four new proposed industrial settlements have yet to be built, and the government has no plans for temporary housing. Shrugs Benjamin Gur-Arieh, Premier Menachem Begin’s adviser on Arab affairs: “They can double up in their tents until the villages are ready. They’re used to it.”

    —-

  8. talknic
    talknic
    December 3, 2013, 2:10 am

    @ traintosiberia

    // Premier Menachem Begin’s adviser on Arab affairs: “They can double up in their tents until the villages are ready. They’re used to it.” Time – Volume 114 – Page 75 //

    https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=ctrl&ei=DIOdUsemIO7C8geij4D4Dg&gws_rd=cr#q=%E2%80%9CThey+can+double+up+in+their+tents+until+the+villages+are+ready.+They%E2%80%99re+used+to+it.%E2%80%9D&tbm=bks

  9. jon s
    jon s
    December 3, 2013, 2:42 am

    Not all Jewish Israelis support the Prawer Plan . As an Israeli and resident of the Negev I oppose the Prawer plan for reasons that are detailed here:
    http://adalah.org/Public/files/English/Legal_Advocacy/ACRI-Adalah-Prawer-Objection-English-April12.pdf

    A group to which I have a connection:
    http://www.dukium.org/eng/

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