I would add a further point. One sometimes reads that Western imperialism can’t be an important factor in the rise of Islamic extremism, because other parts of the world suffered even more horribly and none of those other regions produced suicide bombers who attacked Western targets. Hitchens himself used that argument once. It’s a strange and bizarrely narcissistic argument. The fact is that Western colonialism did elicit extremely violent reactions in other parts of the world, but those reactions mostly manifested themselves within those regions. So Western imperialism gave birth to post-colonial dictatorships, ethnic violence, violent liberation movements and wars that in various parts of the world killed many millions of people, sometimes followed, as in the case of Cambodia, by a peace that killed even more people than the war. It’s true that Al Qaeda gave us 9/11, but 9/11 is one drop in the ocean of violence that future historians will write about when they look back at the post-WWII era. The Middle East only seems exceptionally violent to us now because American commentators have the historical memory of a mayfly.
Sullivan should criticize Islamic extremism in all its forms. But how can someone claim to want the spread of liberal values and then stand side by side with the likes of Harris or Maher, who make excuses for Israeli war crimes? Surely, alongside the religious fanatics who kill for their faith, we should add the self-described secular liberals who wish to kill for theirs, who make justifications for atrocities that rival those committed by religious fanatics. Perhaps there is a problem with some Western liberals, just as there is a problem with some Muslims, Christians, and Jews.
Sullivan had a column up recently that was really stupid. In it he argued that Hamas needs to be defeated because they hate Jews and if they ever get their hands on Jews they would kill them. Yes, Israel has killed innocents but they don’t mean to and anyway they’re not trying to kill all the Arabs.
So, for Sullivan the imaginary massacres of Jews at the hands of Hamas are WAY more awful than the real massacres by Israel. That’s how these idiots think.
Also someone needs to tell Sully about Max Blumenthal, Dan Cohen and other Jewish folk who were in Gaza recently and yet managed to keep from being massacred.
Idiot.
Well in all seriousness how many people do excuse suicide bombing? In my opinion there are few, if any, but there are many people who do understand that people who are in desperate circumstances can do desperate things. That the real issue is cleaning up the issues that led to such actions being spawned in the first place.
And I remain unconvinced that western atrocities rival those perpetrated by religious extremists. I think we are several leagues ahead of them. Slitting someone’s throat is truly barbaric but it’s less barbaric than the one ton bomb which wipes out dozens in order to get one person. In terms of violence between Muslims and the west, it is the west doing the vast majority of the killing. And we don’t only kill in reaction. We will willingly kill to get the dictator of our choice. Muslim on Muslim violence is also horrific but so was the civil wars in the Uk and US. Or any other nation. So was WW I and WW II. This tribal violence does not diminish our responsibility for the lives we have taken.
People in the middle east have a great share of reponsibility for what happens over there. We have a great share of responsibility for our intereference and creation of the breeding ground and conditions. We need to be here to help any forces of peace and otherwise we need to stop feeding the war groups and militias (this includes Israel).
RE: “Sullivan acknowledges that Christians have problems and Jews have problems and others commit atrocities and he even admits that many Muslims are wonderful people (mighty white of him)” ~ Donald
FROM WIKIPEDIA [Play the white man]:
SOURCE – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Play_the_white_man
Mehdi Hasan nails it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjRI2AsF3h0
Sullivan and his extremist caricature Rod Dreher both come out of the Israeli peretz young man at the TNR line of conservatism, as do many clever writers and defenders of Israel
Why Anders Breivik’s Manifesto Mentions Me
By Rod Dreher
http://www.realclearreligion.org/articles/2011/07/26/why_anders_breiviks_manifesto_mentions_me_106290.html
Noah Millamn on Dreher and Sullivan
Dreher and Sullivan alike are Christians. I’m not. They assume that Jesus’s call to “turn the other cheek” means that Christianity has acted as a historic brake on violence. As a Jew, I have to question that assumption. After all, the number of Christian countries in history that have been governed according to principles of non-violence is exactly zero. Someone from a religious tradition whose founding texts articulated rules about when violence is justified or permitted might look at the long history of Christian violence – not just violence by Christians, but violence undertaken with the Church’s encouragement and undertaken in the name of Jesus – and say: gee, maybe saying “turn the other cheek” backfires, makes all violence seem equally sinful, and therefore opens the gate to truly horrific behavior?
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/millman/against-seriousness/