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Video: Support for one democratic state grows as Palestinians lose hope in two-state solution

Israel/Palestine
on 89 Comments

A central question of the Middle East Peace Process remains: can the two-state solution be saved?

Israel continues to build illegal settlements in the occupied Palestinian Territories – contrary to the recent UN resolution 2334. Against this backdrop, a conference has been organized in Paris on Sunday, January 15 to try to relaunch the moribund peace process. Over 70 countries will be attending the conference although Israeli and Palestinian officials will not be present.

The French Initiative has been warmly received by the Palestinian leadership as a final chance to save the two-state-solution: “Two states today is possible. Tomorrow, it might be too late” warned Muhammad Shtayyeh, Fatah Central Committee Member, who nevertheless remains optimistic. “The reality on the ground, the demography on the ground, the geography on the ground, shows that a two-state solution is still possible today”.

However, Palestinian public opinion no longer reflects this official position. A recent poll shows that 65% of Palestinians no longer believe the two-state solution is viable due to ongoing settlement expansion. “The more people think the two-state solution is no longer viable, the more likely they it is that they will shift and support a one-state solution” explains Dr. Khalil Shikaki, Director of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research.

A few years ago, a minority of Palestinians would openly express support for the one-state solution. But today support is growing according to Radi Jarai, a Fatah dissident and Political Scientist at Al-Quds University. In 2013, together with members from other political factions, he created the ‘One Democratic State’ movement that advocates for the creation of a binational state. According to Jarai: “We are in a one-state solution since 1967, after the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza strip”. Young people are key proponents of the binational state. Mainly because they are disillusioned with the concepts of state building and the peace process.

Will the peace process be relaunched after the Paris Conference? More than 60% of Palestinians believe otherwise.

Mondoweiss Editors
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89 Responses

  1. wondering jew
    wondering jew
    January 14, 2017, 12:34 pm

    Be specific: If the un or fatah or hamas would advocate a one state solution, what would be the statements and policies of those 3 institutions?

    • annie
      annie
      January 14, 2017, 1:31 pm

      Be specific

      iow: speculate

    • Maghlawatan
      Maghlawatan
      January 14, 2017, 6:38 pm

      One person, one vote. Squeaky bum time for Zionists. Reform Israeli education. Downsize the IDF. Reform Israeli law.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        January 14, 2017, 8:42 pm

        Maghwatan – a wish list is useful. But not quite what I have in mind. As far as hamas and fatah, on paper they are the “owners” of the west bank and gaza and any one man one vote proposition denies their ownership, something I cannot imagine either of them endorsing at this time. Individuals from West bank society who say one man one vote, they don’t win elections. The insights of a wishlist contrasted to the social political dynamics of the parties which dominate.

      • annie
        annie
        January 14, 2017, 9:45 pm

        As far as hamas and fatah, on paper they are the “owners” of the west bank and gaza”

        who are you quoting? is this your (“be specific”) speculation?

        any one man one vote proposition … cannot imagine either of them endorsing at this time.

        let’s skip what you can or cannot imagine, do you have anything “on paper” you can use as a source for this speculation of yours? or are you merely creating an (another) opportunity to trash palestinians?

    • Rusty Pipes
      Rusty Pipes
      January 14, 2017, 8:49 pm

      UN would have to declare that Israel is committing Apartheid and/or Ethnic Cleansing/Genocide, which would compel it to enforce sanctions. The US would block those in the UNSC. The UN General Assembly could declare again that Zionism is Racism, but such a declaration would need teeth to make a difference on the ground. The UN General Assembly could withdraw or suspend Israel’s membership until such time that it fulfills the obligations it committed to in order to be accepted as a member of the UN in 1951(?) — accepting the return of Palestinian refugees. Palestine could dissolve as a nation and demand for its citizens to be given full rights as Israeli citizens. The US could also block enforcement of that in the UNSC.

      • Misterioso
        Misterioso
        January 16, 2017, 10:35 am

        Worth noting:

        To quote Norman Finkelstein: “Now, interestingly, I was surprised when it [Res 2334] says, ‘Reaffirms that the establishment by Israel of settlements in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, has no legal validity and constitutes a flagrant violation under international law.’ By using that language they’re calling it a war crime. If they had just said violation under international law, that doesn’t necessarily constitute a war crime. To constitute a war crime, it has to be characterized as either a serious or a flagrant violation of international law…” (http://normanfinkelstein.com/2017/01/04/norman-finkelstein-on-the-un-security-council-resolution-2334/)

  2. annie
    annie
    January 14, 2017, 9:51 pm

    excellent video, thank you.

  3. Helena Cobban
    Helena Cobban
    January 15, 2017, 10:57 am

    Mondo friends! Please note that all the references to “Palestinian public opinion” you make above refer to polls conducted only among that minority of the Palestinian people who are still graciously “permitted” by the occupying power to reside in the occupied West Bank and Gaza. Seventy years of dedicated ethnic cleansing by Israel (using many means to achieve this end, including violence, forced removals, socioeconomic strangling, and administrative harassment) has resulted in a situation in which more than half of all Palestinians today are not permitted to reside in their homeland at all, whereas another 1.2 million or so live as Palestinian citizens of Israel within “1948” Israel.

    When anyone refers to “Palestinian opinion” while counting only the opinions of Palestinians allowed by Israel to reside in the WB and Gaza, they are in essence colluding in that campaign of disenfranchizing all those other Palestinians. If all actual Palestinians including Palestinians forced by Israel to live in exile from their homeland and Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship were to be polled, the results would have been very different (and far less supportive of any Palestinian mini-state) all along.

    And yes, my criticism certainly includes Khalil Shikaki and Mohammed Shtayyeh, both of whom have bought into (indeed, have helped to propagate) the “Palestinians = only the current residents of the WB & Gaza” framing.

    Please try to take adequate note of this whenever you publish (or generate) any writing referring to “Palestinian public opinion”.

  4. joemowrey
    joemowrey
    January 15, 2017, 4:51 pm

    This statement from John Whitbeck sums up quite nicely what is happening in Paris.

    “There can be only one explanation for why all these politicians would go to the ceremonial trouble of gathering together to insist that the two-state solution is the ONLY way forward while advocating ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to offer any hope of achieving it: – They are seeking to foreclose (or at least to forestall) a decision by the Palestinian people to seek their freedom and some measure of justice through transforming the one-state reality which the Zionist movement has created in historical Palestine from an apartheid reality into a democratic reality with equal rights and human dignity for all (which would be very awkward and difficult for those who profess to support democracy to deal with) – and, thereby, to sustain the occupation and the status quo while continuing, for their own personal political convenience, to fake an interest in achieving a two-state solution.”

  5. brent
    brent
    January 16, 2017, 12:00 am

    I understood nowhere in the world had Jews enjoyed as positive a neighborly relationship with their neighbors as with the Arabs in Palestine….. before the Zionist movement began flooding Palestine with European Jews with the idea it was a land without a people…. certainly no equal rights. Why can’t that eventually become possible again if equal rights are respected?

    If the Aral League or Fatah put the issue of equality on thetable, they would likely be attacked as seeking the “destruction of Israel” as was the PLO following its founding objective, a secular democratic state with equality for all.

    A campaign for equality, emanating from the grass roots of Palestine, would have several positive impacts. It could negate the idea/narrative the Palestinian intention is to destroy Israel and kill its Jews. It could inspire Israelis and Palestinians to think co-existence. It could inspire America’s political class to lend political support. Perhaps most important , it could inspire Israelis, to whom a Jewish State is important to rein in the taking of territory by force and articulate ways a two state accommodation could be designed.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      January 16, 2017, 12:29 pm

      “Perhaps most important , it could inspire Israelis, to whom a Jewish State is important to rein in the taking of territory by force and articulate ways a two state accommodation could be designed.”

      A “two state accommodation”! How generous of the Israelis.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        January 20, 2017, 4:34 am

        Mooser: “A “two state accommodation”! How generous of the Israelis.”

        Yes, very generous. A displacement camp with international status.

  6. Kay24
    Kay24
    January 16, 2017, 6:17 am

    Then there could also be a violent armed resistance. When all hope is lost, desperation makes people turn to what they perceive to be the last straw. No one can blame them.

  7. sbahour
    sbahour
    January 17, 2017, 4:26 am

    I wish politics was about what we “want.” It’s not. Read:

    May 23 2016
    Asynchronous and Inseparable Struggles for Rights and a Political End-Game
    (Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research – PSR)
    http://bit.ly/Asynchronous-and-Inseparable

    and in Arabic here:
    http://bit.ly/Asynchronous-and-Inseparable-Struggles-Ar

    • Sibiriak
      Sibiriak
      January 25, 2017, 9:23 am

      Asynchronous and Inseparable Struggles for Rights and a Political End-Game
      (Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research – PSR)

      ———————–

      Thanks. Excellent analysis, including counterpoints by Radi Jarai and Mohammad Daraghmeh.

  8. jon s
    jon s
    January 17, 2017, 3:55 pm

    Mondoweiss Editors seem to regard the terms “one state” and “bi-national state” as being synonyms.
    See this paragraph:
    “But today support is growing according to Radi Jarai, a Fatah dissident and Political Scientist at Al-Quds University. In 2013, together with members from other political factions, he created the ‘One Democratic State’ movement that advocates for the creation of a binational state. According to Jarai: “We are in a one-state solution since 1967, after the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza strip”. Young people are key proponents of the binational state. ”

    Does Mr. Jarai’s movement call for one state or a binational state? Do you have a direct quote from Palestinian thinkers advocating a bi-national state?

    • amigo
      amigo
      January 17, 2017, 4:14 pm

      “Do you have a direct quote from Palestinian thinkers advocating a bi-national state?” jon s

      Ali Abunimah—–“One Country”.

      Edward Said —–“In the meantime, a wise Palestinian-American theorist and intellectual is rolling in his grave. Edward Said said it long ago and it can’t be more accurate today: “The question, I believe, is not how to devise means for persisting in trying to separate them, but to see whether it is possible for them to live together as fairly and peacefully as possible.”

      http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/memory-edward-said-one-state-solution-117215136

    • annie
      annie
      January 17, 2017, 4:24 pm

      jon, try checking out Jarai’s Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research. http://www.pcpsr.org/

      here’s a recent “final report”, (pdf) http://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/final%20report%20print%20English.pdf

      there’s nothing here indicating (at all) one state means one state without jews. but try poking around a bit and familiarize yourself with what they do.

      • jon s
        jon s
        January 17, 2017, 5:03 pm

        Annie, thanks for the links. I didn’t say that one state means without Jews. I say that one state and a bi-national state are not necessarily the same.

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 17, 2017, 7:12 pm

        Jon S, you are splitting hairs.They don,t have to refer to it as a Bi national state each time .They already clarified it as Bi National in the first instance and a Bi National state is a single. state.

        I notice you ignored my response to your request for the opinions of Palestinian thinkers, ???.Didn,t have an argument , eh.

      • jon s
        jon s
        January 18, 2017, 12:48 pm

        Amigo,
        I’m not splitting hairs: I pointed out an important distinction between “one state” and “binational state”. Minister Naftali Bennet, for example , rejects the two state solution. The one state that he advocates is certainly not a binational state.
        In the link you provided the late Edward Said is not directly quoted as supporting the binational concept, but he did come pretty close. In general, the Palestinians have always rejected the binational state concept. At present they’re committed to establishing an Islamic state, as I’ve pointed out in the past. Far removed from Prof. Said’s secular vision.

      • annie
        annie
        January 18, 2017, 12:57 pm

        jon, so now you’re moving the goalposts from jarai and his organization to “in general palestinians”? can we back up? did you read anything in jarai’s website indicating he was not advocating a “binational concept”? that seemed to be your original concern.

        or are you just conceding no ground here? plugging away with your original claims?

        At present they’re committed to establishing an Islamic state

        as if israelis are not, at present committed to establishing an Jewish state? the idea of bi national is co existence. what about that don’t you get?

        edit, it just occurred to me maybe you think judaism is somehow more secular than islam. think again jon. your religious fanatics are just as, if not more, fanatical as the next guys. i suppose you know there are lots of settler judaic freaks right? and their fantasies require a LOT of violence to achieve. fanatical judaism is thriving in israel and palestine, a lot more than fanatical islam. go examine your own fanatical nationalists why don’t you.

      • annie
        annie
        January 18, 2017, 1:07 pm

        and you are splitting hairs jon. it’s fine if you want to advocate for 2 states, people have been doing it for decades. and there’s nothing wrong with examining the alternatives just in case this window that’s been ‘about to close’ for a long long time, and many believe have already closed, is roundly understood as being closed. (that’s what futurists do by the way) and what if, with trumps support, israel does annex the west bank. will it then be ok with you for people like jarai and edward said to talk about the people all being equal within that state, or are you going to keep hammering on their lack of the linguistic “binational”? you’re splitting hairs john.

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        January 18, 2017, 2:27 pm

        Secularism is being hammered in Israel too. Ask any reform Jew at the wall or any female singer anywhere near the Haredim

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 18, 2017, 4:05 pm

        Annie, this is typical zionist mo.Ask for A and when you get it , switch to B.

        Jon s asked for statements by Palestinian thinkers , 2 of which I provided .Ali Abunimah whose dedication to a bi national state is unquestioned by anyone in control of their own cranial area.On Edward Said he insists that I did not quote quote him directly , ergo that doesn,t count.Any honest person would know that Edward Said favoured a Bi National state which is why he received death threats from the PLO and others on the Palestinian side.

        Jon S is about as dishonest as one can get but then I guess that is what is required to continue to live without shame on someone else,s property and convince yourself it is yours.

        Pathethic and very very sad.

      • annie
        annie
        January 18, 2017, 4:56 pm

        amigo, Jon S is about trolling a well written and thought out article about opportunities and ideas for an eventual peace and thrashing palestinians.

      • jon s
        jon s
        January 18, 2017, 4:34 pm

        Annie,
        “Can we back up? ” Sure, .we can go back to the 1930s. At that time “dovish” Jewish groups like Brit Shalom (Magnes, Buber and others) and the Socialist-Zionist Hashomer Hatzair advocated the binational state concept as an alternative to a Jewish state and to partition. It was a minority opinion, rejected by most Zionists, and also received near-zero support from Palestinians.

        I’m not being cynical, I would sincerely like to know if there is at present any Palestinian support for a binational state. Please point out where in Jarai’s website or elsewhere is there support for that concept among the Palestinians. Perhaps I’m missing something.

        In answer to your question: if the West Bank is annexed, then, yes the struggle wil be for equal rights for all. Absolutely.

      • annie
        annie
        January 18, 2017, 4:53 pm

        i meant back up in the conversation. you have the website, if you’d like to make a point about this being for an islamic state that’s for you to prove. why should anyone try to prove anything to you when this:

        The question, I believe, is not how to devise means for persisting in trying to separate them, but to see whether it is possible for them to live together as fairly and peacefully as possible

        becomes this:

        Edward Said is not directly quoted as supporting the binational concept, but he did come pretty close.

        why don’t you type out the exact phrasing dr jarai would have to use for your approval. Edward said is dead, so i guess that’s out the window.

      • jon s
        jon s
        January 19, 2017, 3:52 pm

        Annie, It’s not a matter of “my approval”. I’m just interested in the question of whether there is Palestinian support for a binational state. So the exact phrase I’m looking for is “b-inational state”.

      • jon s
        jon s
        January 19, 2017, 4:33 pm

        amigo,
        You quote Ali Abunimah using the term “one country”. The point I’m trying to make is that “one state ” is not necessarily a bi-national state, and the two terms should not be used as synonyms.
        This is a serious issue in my opinion, an essential issue, because it relates to the essence of what we want to achieve. It’s not splitting hairs.
        Too bad that that you can’t resist adding another ad hominem attack, calling me dishonest and pathetic and “living on someone else’s property”. Why not try to just address the issue?

      • annie
        annie
        January 19, 2017, 4:51 pm

        we get your point jon. try reading abunimah’s book before chomping at the title, then you can find out what he means.

        from your first comment on this post, even when you sited “the ‘One Democratic State’ movement”, and cherrypicked the part in quotes vs the unquoted text, your further references were to one state. please note no where in the article does it even reference one state. it always references one democratic state. now you’ve morphed from “one democratic state ” is not necessarily a bi-national state to one state or one country is not necessarily binational.

        we get it, you’re implying abunimah, said, and jarai are possibly referencing a future state that doesn’t include two peoples or is not binational and you want proof. ad nauseum. sounds like spamming to me. again, we get your point (scoring).

        why not just write adunimah or tweet him and ask if he means binational if you’re too lazy to read the book.

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 19, 2017, 5:01 pm

        “You quote Ali Abunimah using the term “one country”. The point I’m trying to make is that “one state ” is not necessarily a bi-national state, and the two terms should not be used as synonyms ” Jon S ,

        Read the damn book before you make conclusions about it . What was that you said about addressing the issue.

        “This is a serious issue in my opinion, an essential issue, because it relates to the essence of what we want to achieve. It’s not splitting hairs.” Jon S.

        If it so serious , then read the book and argue from an informed position.Otherwise save your intellectual laziness for your students , Poor buggars..

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 23, 2017, 10:00 pm

        Yeah, we get it “Jon s”. Palestinian lives and property don’t mean squat compared to your “ancestral homeland” fantasy, and fear of Christmas lights.

    • Talkback
      Talkback
      January 20, 2017, 5:11 am

      @ Jon S

      Abunimah:
      “If you look at the situation within Israel, you find that the sort of united leadership of the Arab and Palestinian communities within Israel has called for transforming Israel into a bi-national state and interestingly the example they use is Belgium — one of the examples I use in the book.

      According to a recent poll of Arab-Israelis, only 14 percent of respondents thought that Israel should remain a Jewish democratic state in its current form. Fifty-seven percent said they wanted a change in the character and definition of the state, whether a state for all its citizens, a bi-national state, or a consensual democracy.”
      https://electronicintifada.net/content/al-jazeera-interviews-eis-ali-abunimah/9661

      “Three years ago Meron Benvenisti, Jerusalem’s deputy mayor in the 1970s, wrote that the question is “no longer whether there is to be a bi-national state in Palestine-Israel, but which model to choose”. [2] Respected intellectuals on all sides, including the late Edward Said; the Arab Israeli member of the Knesset, Azmi Bishara; the Israeli historian Ilan Pappe; scholars Tanya Reinhart and Virginia Tilley; and journalists Amira Haas and Ali Abunimah, have all stressed the inevitability of such a solution.”
      https://electronicintifada.net/content/israel-palestine-time-bi-national-state/6821

      And it is correct to say that the Palestinians recommended a demorcratic one state solution including minority rights and therefore didn’t declare an “Arab” state in 1948, but wanted to reunify Palestine whose territorial integrity was violated by Jewish seperatists and terrorists who expelled the real majority to create a Jewish one.

  9. jon s
    jon s
    January 17, 2017, 4:04 pm

    Also: The UNSC recently reaffirmed by an overwhelming majority the international commitment to the two state solution. So did representatives of 70 countries in Paris.
    Mondoweiss repeatedly tries to make the point that two states is finished, when actually we see that it’s still the only game in town.

    • amigo
      amigo
      January 17, 2017, 4:19 pm

      They also reaffirmed the 67 lines .

      Will you be leaving your squat in beersheba in the event of land swaps.

      Which soccer team will you support when you make aliyah to the USA.

      • jon s
        jon s
        January 17, 2017, 5:12 pm

        amigo, Yes, they reaffirmed the 67 lines as the basis for the two state solution. Check a reliable map and see where Beersheva is in regard to those lines. You’re invited to visit Beersheva and see my “squat”.
        In my experience, people usually remain loyal to their teams, through good times and bad.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 17, 2017, 5:58 pm

        “You’re invited to visit Beersheva and see my “squat”.”

        Make sure to wear a sign saying “I am not an Eritrean!”

        I’d be horribly afraid to go to a place where they kill strangers. “Jon s”, why wouldn’t they kill me? Can you give me any reassurance? Thanks, but I think it’s much safer to stay away.

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 17, 2017, 7:50 pm

        “Make sure to wear a sign saying “I am not an Eritrean!” Mooser.

        Hmmm , would , “I am an “Erintrean” .work?.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 17, 2017, 9:01 pm

        “Hmmm , would , “I am an “Erintrean” .work?.”

        I wouldn’t risk it. I hear they are pretty quick with the death penalty kick in Beersheba.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 18, 2017, 5:32 pm

        And if “jon s” wonders why I can’t let go of that murder at Beersheba, it’s this:

        “Terrorist attack in Beersheva this evening. My family and I are ok, thank God. I also asked all the kids in my class to check in and they all reported that they’re ok, although some sound shaken” – “Jon s”

        November 18, 2014 at 4:34 am

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 19, 2017, 5:34 pm

        Jon S , I have accused you of squatting on someone elses land and so you are.The land you live on was stolen by BG and his thugs and given to squatters like you.Just because the UN or whoever has allowed Israel to get away with additional land theft above and beyond that granted in 48 , does not negate the fact that Israel stole that land.Ergo , you are a squatter.No ad hominem.Just facts.

        “In 1947, the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) proposed that Beersheba be included within the Jewish state in their partition plan for Palestine.[32] However, when the UN’s Ad Hoc Committee revised the plan, they moved Beersheva to the Arab state on account of it being primarily Arab.[32]

        During the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, when military intelligence intercepted a telegram from Egyptian officers about plans to redeploy along the Beersheba-Gaza line, Yigal Allon proposed the conquest of Beersheba,[33] which was approved by Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion. According to Israeli historian Benny Morris, he ordered the “conquest of Beersheba, occupation of outposts around it, [and] demolition of most of the town.”[34] The objective was to break the Egyptian blockade of Israeli convoys to the Negev. The Egyptian army did not expect an offensive and fled en masse.[33] At 4:00 am on October 21, the 8th Brigade’s 89th battalion and the Negev Brigade’s 7th and 9th battalions moved in, some troops advancing from Mishmar HaNegev junction, 20 kilometres (12 mi) north of Beersheba, others from the Turkish train station and Hatzerim. By 9:45, Beersheba was in Israeli hands. Around 120 Egyptian soldiers were taken prisoner. The remaining Arab civilians, 200 men and 150 women and children, were taken to the police fort. On October 25, the women, children, disabled and elderly were driven by truck to the Gaza border.”

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beersheba#Geography.

        You see Jon S , you are living on land that once belonged to those awful people in Gaza that your most moral army drops in every once an a while to mow their lawns on your behalf.

    • Maghlawatan
      Maghlawatan
      January 18, 2017, 2:28 pm

      It’s not the only game in town. Breaking Greater Israel into 2 halves is also on the menu.

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        January 19, 2017, 4:12 pm

        Israel declared its borders as per the Partition Plan…..Roll Israel back behind those borders with harsh sanctions and zero assistance and suspend it from the UN and make its citizens persona non grata globally.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 19, 2017, 7:13 pm

        “suspend it from the UN and make its citizens persona non grata globally.”

        Israel should not be prevented from reaching its natural size. In general, Israelis should be free to leave.

    • Talkback
      Talkback
      January 20, 2017, 7:56 am

      jon s: “Also: The UNSC recently reaffirmed by an overwhelming majority the international commitment to the two state solution. So did representatives of 70 countries in Paris. Mondoweiss repeatedly tries to make the point that two states is finished, when actually we see that it’s still the only game in town.So did representatives of 70 countries in Paris. Mondoweiss repeatedly tries to make the point that two states is finished, when actually we see that it’s still the only game in town.”

      The two state solution is as alive as the occupier’s approval of the UN resolution and this conference.

    • eljay
      eljay
      January 20, 2017, 8:39 am

      || jon s: … Mondoweiss repeatedly tries to make the point that two states is finished … ||

      Meanwhile, Zionists and their “Jewish State” are making sure that 2SS is finished.

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        January 22, 2017, 4:19 am

        Two States is never finished…..Israel was carved out of Palestine with a pen stroke. Palestine can be carved out with a pen stroke also. It was simple enough for the powers that be to create Israel. The same simplicity can be applied to creating Palestine.

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      January 20, 2017, 5:41 pm

      “Mondoweiss repeatedly tries to make the point that two states is finished, when actually we see that it’s still the only game in town. ”

      But no-one is playing. Time for a different game.

  10. amigo
    amigo
    January 20, 2017, 12:40 pm

    Judging by the pushback from Jon S , he is scared of the possibility of a bi national state that guarantees equal rights for all.

    What,s a zionist to do when Arabs can live wherever they please including moving into an exclusive Jewish community.They will send their children to Jewish schools and demand the end of the special status of Jews in Israel .Worse still , this new Israel (if so called) will have borders . Non Jews will be able to make noise and drive in their cars whenever they please.

    Ye Gods , the world is coming to an end.Where is Yahweh when we need Him or is that Her.

    • Maghlawatan
      Maghlawatan
      January 25, 2017, 12:31 am

      Amigo , Arabs is Israeli for Palestinian. Don’t use it.

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 25, 2017, 12:12 pm

        “Amigo , Arabs is Israeli for Palestinian. Don’t use it.”Maghlawatan

        I was portraying the mindset of a zionist. I rarely use the term.

  11. jon s
    jon s
    January 23, 2017, 4:11 pm

    amigo,
    Why should I be afraid of equal rights for all?
    In case you haven’t noticed, that’s what I support.
    Beersheva, where I live, is not exclusively Jewish, nor is my school, and plenty of people drive around and make noise, Jews and non-Jews

    • annie
      annie
      January 23, 2017, 5:10 pm

      amigo, Why should I be afraid of equal rights for all?

      speaking of equal rights, i keep bringing up live palestinians bodies being held by israel in this conversation we’re having right here: http://mondoweiss.net/2017/01/palestinians-israeli-authorities/comment-page-1/#comment-868131 and you won’t address them. why? would you also agree palestinians should be able to judge settlers in their courts and imprison them in their jails? would you advocate that? or would you advocate israel release all palestinians they are holding in their jails. many without charge.

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 23, 2017, 5:30 pm

        touche Annie but let,s proffer Jon S an opportunity to convince us that his outreach activities include seeking the release of those Palestinians held without trial and especially the Children locked away in Israeli prisons , Jon ,s supports through his taxes.

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 23, 2017, 6:16 pm

        Annie , check this link .It is an American Jewish woman who is describing her decision to make aliyah to Beersheva , from Baltimore and her life there,The article is about a 7 minute read in which this person describes friendly Israelis and good medical care and transport and eating options.Not once in this article does she mention the Arab citizens of Israel.It is as if they do not exist.She speaks of Russians/French/English and yes, Ethiopians but Arabs are no where to be found in her Israel or Beersheba.

        It is symptomatic of the insular mindset of so many of Israel,s Jewish citizens.

        http://www.nbn.org.il/gosouth/making-aliyah-to-beer-sheva/

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 23, 2017, 7:37 pm

        Annie , I should have pointed out in my above post , that this woman was marketing Israel in an attempt to entice diaspora Jews to make aliyah.

        Perhaps that,s why she omitted any mention of Arabs to avoid putting her friends off the idea of making aliyah , specifically to Beersheba.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 23, 2017, 10:34 pm

        “let,s proffer Jon S an opportunity to convince us that his outreach activities include seeking…”

        … the right of Palestinians to have access to the court system to seek redress and reparations?

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 24, 2017, 8:54 am

        “… the right of Palestinians to have access to the court system to seek redress and reparations? ” Mooser.

        Palestinians already have access to the court system.Just being a Palestinian is justification to arrest them through which they receive access to the Court system .Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians , (including children ) have been granted access to the Israeli court system.In fact , Jews in Israel and the west bank receive far far less access to the court system.

      • annie
        annie
        January 24, 2017, 9:10 pm

        amigo, i just finished reading your link. Not once in this article does she mention the Arab citizens of Israel.It is as if they do not exist

        she probably doesn’t think about them, they probably do not matter to her or she wishes to completely avoid the topic. this is telling: It is probably harder in a place like Beer Sheva which is actually in Israel and not in an English enclave that happens to be in Israel.

        what does she mean by Beer Sheva actually in Israel vs those english enclaves that just so “happen[s]” to be in Israel? hmm. maybe she doesn’t want to even say settlements?

        here’s what i found most interesting.

        This is a big adjustment for me coming from Baltimore where I had a large house with a huge yard of about half an acre and a gorgeous garden which I planted myself.

        so why did these pensioners leave baltimore at this stage in their lives? she spent 3 paragraphs on the medical facilities and opportunities affordable national health coverage is a big plus to living anywhere in Israel compared to the U.S.”. plus, her daughter (not her husband’s kids) has “serious chronic pain issues”. and the housing is relatively inexpensive. this is a place they could comfortably afford to retire and if her daughter is coming, alleviating the financial burdens surrounding her medical issues is possibly a big relief for them — as she, the daughter, sounds single.

        and she doesn’t sound alone in this situation at all. her local “pensioner’s ulpan” classes (for older people), where she learns hebrew, while she doesn’t mention how many are in her class, it sounds like a relatively large group — mostly from russia. i wonder how many of those moving to israel are older?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 26, 2017, 5:22 pm

        “i wonder how many of those moving to israel are older?”

        Not one. The entire Israeli population is 18-26 years old, and in fighting trim!

    • eljay
      eljay
      January 23, 2017, 5:28 pm

      || jon s: … Why should I be afraid of equal rights for all?
      In case you haven’t noticed, that’s what I support. ||

      What you support is a Zionist “peace” which, among other things, allows Israel to remain a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” with more/different rights for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews.

      In case you haven’t noticed, supremacism is not equality.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      January 23, 2017, 9:50 pm

      “Beersheva, where I live, is not exclusively Jewish,”

      Sure, sure “Jon s”, it’s “not exclusively Jewish”. Is that why they mob-murder innocent people?

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 24, 2017, 8:41 am

        “Sure, sure “Jon s”, it’s “not exclusively Jewish”. Is that why they mob-murder innocent people?.” Mooser.

        I tried to find out if the killers were ever found guilty but was unable to unearth one reference to such , so it would appear they all got away with it.

        This is the Jewish homeland that Jon S so religiously defends .

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 24, 2017, 12:29 pm

        “I tried to find out if the killers were ever found…”

        Oh, “amigo” you know how hard it is to get illegal settlers ‘to cross the thin blue line’.
        Nope, they haven’t found anybody who was even there.

        And good ol’ “Jon s” “Israeli history teacher” told the kids it was a “terrorist attack on Beersheba”.
        And tried to tell Mondo the same thing. I’ve never seen anything like it.

  12. jon s
    jon s
    January 24, 2017, 4:02 pm

    Annie, amigo,
    I oppose the use of administrative detention, which is what I assume you’re referring to as “held without trial”. As to settlers being tried in Palestinian courts, yes. I’ve even written something on that on a local website: that settlers suspected of attacks on Palestinians should be handed over for trial to the Palestinian courts.

    • amigo
      amigo
      January 24, 2017, 5:30 pm

      “I oppose the use of administrative detention, which is what I assume you’re referring to as “held without trial” Jon S

      Excellent progress but when will we see actual evidence in the form of a selfie showing you outside an Israeli police station calling for an end to that practice. Or perhaps a written statement to the letters to the ed of Haartez using your real name.You can copy and paste a copy to MW for our edification.

      As to calling for “Illegal” (you omitted that ??) settlers being handed over to the Palestinian courts , fat chance that would ever happen.

      To quote Donald Trump , ” all talk –all talk and no action”.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 24, 2017, 7:12 pm

        “I oppose the use of administrative detention, which is what I assume you’re referring to as “held without trial” “Jon S”

        Who needs “administrative detention” if you can just murder any stranger (especially a dark-skinned stranger) who wanders into your hide-out? There won’t be anybody to detain.

      • jon s
        jon s
        January 25, 2017, 3:59 pm

        amigo,
        I’ve never intentionally lied on this forum, but if you choose not to believe me, that’s your choice. With all respect, it’s not like I need your approval.
        I’ll post a photo and my real name when all other commenters do so.

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 25, 2017, 6:14 pm

        “I’ve never intentionally lied on this forum, but if you choose not to believe me, that’s your choice. ” Jon S

        I never accused you of lying.I merely pointed out that objecting to some of the policies of the GOI through the medium of letters to a newspaper or some blog is hardly evidence of a serious commitment to ending human rights abuses.It might assuage your consience and allow you to believe you are a defender of the downtrodden , if that is all you are seeking.

        If you want to do something positive , then hit the streets and make your opposition known where it counts and really reach out. Try it .You might find it very liberating.Bring your children along and instill in them the importance of resisting oppression and the denial of human rights .They may well thank you when they are old enough to understand.

        And before you ask , during the last Gaza War , aka , “Mowing the Lawn” I made a 200 mile round trip 6 weekends in a row to protest with thousands of other people who were willing to translate their words into actions.However ,compared to some people , my contribution is minuscule .

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 25, 2017, 8:05 pm

        “I’ve never intentionally lied on this forum,” “Jon s”

        No, you never ever lie, you just make a convenient little mistake from time to time:

        jon s October 18, 2015 at 4:59 pm with 14 replies
        “Terrorist attack in Beersheva this evening.
        My family and I are ok, thank God. I also asked all the kids in my class to check in and they all reported that they’re ok, although some sound shaken.”

        – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/jon-s/?keyword=terrorist+attack#sthash.CczP630F.dpuf

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 25, 2017, 9:01 pm

        “I’ll post a photo and my real name…” “jon s”

        Wait a minute, I think I know you. Weren’t you the guy with the chair?

  13. jon s
    jon s
    January 26, 2017, 2:07 am

    amigo,
    I may have participated in more demos, marches , petitions, etc. against the occupation and the settlements and for peace, social justice and democracy than any other commenter on this blog.
    Also, I wish you wouldn’t use an offensive term like “mowing the lawn” when referring to Palestinian casualties. They are people, not grass.

    • just
      just
      January 26, 2017, 3:27 am

      For truth’s sake, jon s! Give us all a break and prove your claims of solidarity with the Palestinians of Palestine.

      As for the “offensive term like mowing the lawn”, look to your chosen leaders and correct them. Teach them the real words~ ethnic cleansing and murder. You should be able to do this as you claim to be a teacher of history…

      “AN ELITE BATTALION WORKS AT ‘MOWING THE LAWN’ IN SAMARIA”

      http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/An-elite-battalion-works-at-mowing-the-lawn-in-Samaria-463169

      “Noam Chomsky: The Real Reason Israel “Mows the Lawn” in Gaza

      Like other states, Israel pleads “security” as justification for its aggressive and violent actions. But knowledgeable Israelis know better.”

      http://www.alternet.org/noam-chomsky-real-reason-israel-mows-lawn-gaza

      Your leaders and fellow congregants invented the horrible phrase and continue with their despicable actions.

      Deal with it.

    • Maghlawatan
      Maghlawatan
      January 26, 2017, 6:32 am

      Given the trend of Israeli society over the last 3 decades marches petitions etc have been as relevant as a bucket of spit marinated in piss.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 26, 2017, 4:33 pm

        “Given the trend of Israeli society over the last 3 decades…”

        “Jon s” will have no problem saying “Oy, Gevalt it was the right-wing ultra-orthodox and settlers which ruined it!” after he leaves.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      January 26, 2017, 4:29 pm

      “Also, I wish you wouldn’t use an offensive term like “mowing the lawn” when referring to Palestinian casualties. They are people, not grass.”

      Are you for real?

  14. amigo
    amigo
    January 26, 2017, 7:11 am

    “Also, I wish you wouldn’t use an offensive term like “mowing the lawn” when referring to Palestinian casualties. They are people, not grass.” Jon S

    I didn,t coin the phrase.Check the link to find out who did and arrange a demo to show your disgust.I am shocked you have never heard that phrase before. Google it and see.You owe it to your students to be fully informed so they can be better able to see through the hasbara bs fed to them every day.

    And please don,t lecture me about Palestinians being People.It,s disingenuous , at best from someone who is living on grassy land, stolen from those people.

    http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Mowing_the_Lawn

    • just
      just
      January 26, 2017, 10:45 am

      Settler jon s has chutzpah that has no bounds!

      (Too bad that we don’t all admire the imperious and scolding comments that he proudly displays, eh? Wonder what his students think… if they do.)

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 26, 2017, 4:30 pm

        “Settler jon s has chutzpah that has no bounds!”

        And there is almost a million of them! Between the chutzpah and the numbers, they can defy the entire world.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 27, 2017, 5:24 pm

        “Wonder what his students think… if they do”

        Don’t worry, In Israeli schools, they have corporal punishment. The students don’t question or talk back.
        If they do, the paddle comes out. “Corporal Punishment is Educational”
        Remember, Israel is in a tough neighborhood.

    • jon s
      jon s
      January 27, 2017, 4:30 pm

      amigo, I didn’t say that you coined the phrase, and I have seen it before. But you used it, and it is offensive, in my view.

      • annie
        annie
        January 27, 2017, 5:05 pm

        we all have to deal with the grotesque offenses emanating from the israeli government in our own way jon. we get you think it’s offensive. look on the bright side, the blades are not your problem, or your childrens’, or your students’.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        January 27, 2017, 5:13 pm

        “Mowing the lawn” in Gaza is alright (it’s all Hamas’ fault! Those terrorists!).

        But reminding “jon s” of the expression is a war crime. The Zionist hero becomes a delicate hothouse flower.

  15. jon s
    jon s
    January 27, 2017, 4:52 pm

    just,
    “Setter jon s”?. I suppose people can invent their own definitions for commnly-used terms such as “settlements” and “settlers”, but without an accepted, commonly used, termonology, there isn’t much chance for a discussion.
    Maybe I should simply call you “terrorist-sympathizer just”.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      January 27, 2017, 5:07 pm

      “Maybe I should simply call you “terrorist-sympathizer just”.

      Oh, you could, but unless you’ve got a mob of Israelis there to shoot and beat “just” to death when you yell “TERRORIST sympathizer, TERRORIST sympathizer” it doesn’t mean much. You are just fantasizing, as Zionists always do, that you have something to snitch.

      On the other hand, “Jon s” where you live, and what you have done, is a fact.

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