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Pro-Israel Democrats concede ‘human rights’ issue is killing the brand

Media Analysis
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Last week Pew released a bombshell survey showing that the progressive base of the Democratic Party is now far more sympathetic to Palestine than Israel. “[N]early twice as many liberal Democrats say they sympathize more with the Palestinians than with Israel (35% vs. 19%).”

That finding is now getting pushback from Democrats who support the strong Israel-U.S. relationship. They worry that the issue is becoming politicized: that the Republican Party is becoming the address for Israel support, so before long Democratic candidates for office will distance themselves from Israel. And Israel will be under real pressure to change its Jim Crow foundations.

The Jewish Democratic Council of America said the poll is faulty.

Finally, a poll released by Pew did a faulty job of measuring American support for Israel, especially within the Democratic Party. While Democrats and Republicans generally disagree on certain Israeli policies, such as Israel’s settlement movement and the Kotel agreement, overall support for Israel remains strong. Just as Americans can question and criticize the Trump administration while still loving their country and remaining patriots, so too can Americans criticize Israeli policies and its leaders.

This is not very convincing: The Council links a study done 14 months ago by Shibley Telhami showing that 60 percent of Democrats support imposing sanctions on Israel over settlements, and 55 percent of Democrats regard Israel as a burden on U.S. foreign policy. It’s only gotten worse since.

Writing “How Not to Measure Americans’ Support for Israel” at the Atlantic, establishment Israel advocates Tamara Cofman Wittes and Daniel Shapiro can only offer a semantical argument against the poll: Pew misframed the question so that the surveyed conflate “Israel” with the “the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.” And nobody likes the conflict– so Israel suffers.

The writers’ chief concern is political: that the poll will be used to drive Israel supporters out of the Democratic Party. They quote this tweet from the RJC:

Turning Israel into a political football would, of course, do huge damage to the Democratic Party fundraising (which depends to a “gigantic,” “shocking” degree on Jews). And ultimately undermine U.S. support for Israel– which is a “moral” commitment in Wittes and Shapiro’s view.

But their headline is misleading: the writers concede that the poll is true. Israel is turning into a divisive issue, and the Democratic base doesn’t like Israeli policies:

Support for Israel is, in fact, becoming a politicized issue in the United States, and partisan divides on policy toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are indeed getting wider.

They note something we missed: that Israel is losing ground with 2/3 of Americans:

[T]he independents’ trend tracks the Democratic trend—both moving toward less sympathy with Israel relative to the Palestinians in the conflict between them. That’s the pattern that should worry Israelis, because independents and Democrats together represent more than two-thirds of Americans.

And they say that Democrats care about human rights, especially the “growing proportion” of younger and browner Americans. Here’s the writing on the wall:

In recent years, some Americans have come to look at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through the lens of human rights—and this is especially true for younger Americans, African Americans and Hispanic Americans. This makes them sensitive to the hardships faced by Palestinian civilians, and to certain Israeli practices, like housing demolitions. These groups form a larger proportion of the voting public than they have in the past, and a growing proportion of the Democratic Party’s core constituency. And yes, there is some anti-Israel sentiment on the left end of the progressive political spectrum, just as there is some on the right end of the conservative camp….

As American society becomes “majority-minority,” with no group, including Americans of European origin, constituting a majority of the population, Israelis should consider what policies can best shore up the U.S.-Israeli relationship, and which might erode its foundations…

Wittes and Shapiro (an ardent Zionist) urge Israeli leaders to tack so as to keep the Democratic base.  They should do something about “the expansion of West Bank settlements that make a two-state solution more difficult,” but the writers don’t say what.

In fact, they praise AIPAC, the Israel lobby group that supports settlements and never criticizes the Israeli government, as a bipartisan group. Just as Jane Eisner of the Forward praised AIPAC as the only game in town, when she despaired over this same partisan breakup two weeks back.

These liberal Zionists are in a very difficult spot. The problem is that young Democrats are tired of hearing only mild criticisms of Israel from the Democratic Party when they have seen the occupation pass its 50th birthday and only get deeper and deeper, with apartheid treatment of Palestinians. These aren’t just African Americans and Hispanics; they’re the young Jews of Jewish Voice for Peace and IfNotNow. I believe many of these liberal Zionists will ultimately move to one side or the other: coming out for some version of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions to pressure Israel, or doubling down on the Jewish state, ala crazy Michael Oren. Wittes and Shapiro don’t want to have to make that choice, so they try and wish the news away.

Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is senior editor of and founded the site in 2005-06.

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61 Responses

  1. William Burns on February 3, 2018, 1:25 pm

    Let’s not forget whose editing the Atlantic these days.

    • Citizen on February 3, 2018, 1:53 pm

      Jeffrey Goldberg. Ugh.

      • RobertHenryEller on February 5, 2018, 9:41 am

        the consummate media careerist straddler on Israel and Palestine

      • Kathleen on February 7, 2018, 2:02 pm

        David “axis of evil” Frum too. (editor at Atlantic. Poked him recently when he was a guest on WBUR’s “On Point” broadcast on NPR.

        A serious and dangerous war hawk who holds no value for American soldiers lives or the hundreds of thousands of people killed, injured or made refugees in the invasion of Iraq or U.S. military aggression in Libya and Syria. He is a supporter of Israel no matter what they do.

        The whole program is interesting. My comment and questions start at 39:55. Frum does not even touch my first question. He spends his response time defending himself.

        “David Frum Takes on Trumpocracy”

      • Kathleen on February 10, 2018, 5:20 pm

        Periodically Goldberg sounds reasonable on a few issues. However he almost always seems insane when it comes to Iraq, Israel/Palestine.

    • RobertHenryEller on February 5, 2018, 9:39 am


  2. pabelmont on February 3, 2018, 1:42 pm

    “They worry that the issue is becoming politicized: that the Republican Party is becoming the address for Israel support, and before long leading Democratic candidates will distance themselves from Israel. Then Israel will be under real pressure to change its Jim Crow foundations.”

    Well, altho this could bring pressure on Israel, what it really does is create pressure on DEMs who must look for money elsewhere than the very, very few very, very rich Zionist donors — who are leaving DEMs and going to REPs.

    Happily — because of the Sanders and especially the Trump phenomena — new rebel (resistance) DEMs are attacking REPs by attacking establishment DEMs in primaries. This needn’t mean anything for I/P, but it might. I hope it does. It seems to go hand-in-hand with the polls announced in this post.

    Happy days are here again? Well, we’ll see next Nov.

    One take-away from the polls is that younger/browner DEMs are getting the H/R information about I/P somewhere, I wonder where from, FOX news? CNN? NYT? MondoWeiss?

  3. Citizen on February 3, 2018, 1:52 pm

    Some feminists are taking up the cause represented by Ahed Tamimi girls. Also, Many non-Jewish white Americans who are not so young are now leaning towards Palestine. Are they just chopped liver in this trend? Just asking. Wonder what a poll of them would show?

  4. dx on February 3, 2018, 2:49 pm

    I agree with Mr. about Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic.

    Also, there is Bill Maher–a libertarian, I think? Not sure, but definitely anti-Trump. On Jan. 27, a headline at Real Clear Politics said, “Maher Defends Jerusalem Decision: When You Win Wars You Take Land, Palestine A ‘Coiled Snake’.” And there’s a clip from his HBO show with him saying this.

    Then today, on Feb. 3, a headline on the same site says, “Bill Maher: The Wall Not Needed Because Bigotry, Racism, Ignorance & Paranoia Is In Heart Of Every Trumpster.” Also with a clip.

    Maher shows how blind he is to his own bigotry, racism, ignorance, and paranoia.

    • Citizen on February 3, 2018, 3:23 pm

      He gushed pure boilerplate hasbara when he gave his audience his summary of Israel’s history. It was just really annoying, as if he never once did a a few minutes research on the subject. I was so annoyed I dropped HBO. He’s insulting to anybody with any awareness on that subject. He did not get any boos from his in-house audience, so I assume they are equally ignorant–and they are mostly young people.

    • Talkback on February 3, 2018, 5:46 pm

      “Maher Defends Jerusalem Decision: When You Win Wars You Take Land, Palestine A ‘Coiled Snake’.””

      Maher’s interpretation of international law is pre 1945. Very common amongst Zionists.

    • genesto on February 5, 2018, 12:31 pm

      Stopped watching this obnoxious creep years ago when his right-wing Zionism, and extreme Islamophobia, became too much to bear. Beyond these issues, I just noted that I came away from his shows feeling more angry and bitter.

      I think BDS should include the Bill Maher Show!

    • Frankie P on February 7, 2018, 6:50 pm

      Maybe Trump is playing these clowns. I mean the never-Trump, pro-Israel crowd, the William Kristols, the Max Boots, the Podhoretzes, etc. They attack and demean Trump at every turn, and then, BAM, old Don pulls out a pro-Israel policy or an attack on a Syrian airport, and suddenly, “He’s downright presidential.” Keep this up, and the sheep may actually wake up to the unbelievable hypocrisy of these people, people who have been wrong again and again and again on every foreign policy disaster for the last two decades, and yet still they somehow retain high-paying, influential media jobs, appear as talking heads on mainstream TV programs, and influence people nation- and world-wide.

      Could Trump be shining a light on nightcrawlers who prefer the dark?

  5. JanetB on February 3, 2018, 3:09 pm

    “In recent years, some Americans have come to look at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through the lens of human rights”

    How on God’s Green Earth can you not view the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through the lens of human rights? Just more proof of the lack of reasoning ability of your average Zionist

    • Mooser on February 3, 2018, 5:21 pm

      “How on God’s Green Earth can you not view the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through the lens of human rights?”

      Well, the Zionists keep on encouraging us to look at it solely in terms of how good it is for the Zionists, according to their own Zionist ambitions.
      I am completely mystified concerning why they expect us to do that.

      • johneill on February 4, 2018, 1:17 am

        because ‘never again’ is a history lesson, not a timeless prescription.

  6. Dan From Away on February 4, 2018, 4:49 am

    Zionist pollsters have been coyly asking Americans if they “support Israel” for decades with predictable results. Would love to see Pew ask them:

    Do you support Zionism?
    Do you support Occupation?
    Do you support Zionism’s anti-BDS laws that threaten your Constitutional rights?
    Do you support Israel’s marketing of millions of weapons in the USA?
    Do you support incarceration for 17 year old girls who slap Israeli soldiers invading her home?
    Do you support special interest money perverting the Democratic Party?
    Do you support the squandering of US prestige for sake of Likud/Netanyahu?

    You know, stuff like that.

    • m1945 on February 4, 2018, 2:33 pm

      Dan Walsh

      Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries. Even when not actively persecuting the Jews, the majority-gentile countries refused to give refuge to the Jews when they needed it. There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries would have allowed in Jewish refugees who were escaping from the Nazis. The idea of Zionism was that Jews would return to their homeland & have a majority-Jewish country because majority-gentile countries had failed to provide safety for the Jews.

      • Mooser on February 4, 2018, 2:48 pm

        “Jews have been persecuted in…” “Jackdaw”

        “Jackdaw” THIS IS THE 18th TIME YOU HAVE POSTED THIS SAME COMMENT!!! Do you copy/paste, or do you know it by rote?

        Why on earth do you think this comment is effective? Why do you think repeating it interminably will advance your argument?

        Has it ever actually worked on anybody except other Zionists?

        Why are Zionists so convinced they can count on philo-semitism? Never, ever say why Zionism is good for anything or anybody except ‘it’s good for the Jews’. (Who ever they are, since nobody is willing to say)

      • Kaisa of Finland on February 4, 2018, 3:46 pm

        “Jews had been persecuted for centuries..”

        Jack, copy/pasting the same comment again and again, raises the question: Are you a human or a robot??

      • Kaisa of Finland on February 4, 2018, 3:49 pm

        (I am sorry, this is how my head works..)

      • Kaisa of Finland on February 4, 2018, 4:10 pm

        “Why do you think repeating it interminably will advance your argument?..”

        I think repeating it will just make people yawn.

      • Mooser on February 4, 2018, 5:26 pm

        I got “Jack Green” and “Jackdaw”, our roseh avis, mixed up. Probably because “Jack Green” was parroting himself.
        It’s a myna mistake.

      • RoHa on February 4, 2018, 5:47 pm

        If you can’t be bothered to correct your grammar, why do you think anyone will take you seriously?

      • Talkback on February 5, 2018, 9:40 am

        Mooser: “I got “Jack Green” and “Jackdaw”, our roseh avis, mixed up. Probably because “Jack Green” was parroting himself.
        It’s a myna mistake.”

        Same happened to me with “Naftush” and “Nathan”. Same reason, lol.

      • Misterioso on February 5, 2018, 2:17 pm

        @Jack Green

        “There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries would have allowed in Jewish refugees who were escaping from the Nazis.”

        The ugly truth:
        “In 1938, a thirty-one nation conference was held in Evian, France, on resettlement of the victims of Nazism. The World Zionist Organization refused to participate, fearing that resettlement of Jews in other states would reduce the number available for Palestine.” (John Quigley, Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice, as quoted in “The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict,” second edition, published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East, Berkeley, California, p. 21.)

        The Jewish Agency in Palestine was very concerned about the implications of the Evian Conference. “It was summed up in the meeting [of the Jewish Agency’s Executive on June 26, 1938] that the Zionist thing to do ‘is belittle the [Evian] Conference as far as possible and to cause it to decide nothing…. We are particularly worried that it would move Jewish organizations to collect large sums of money for aid to Jewish refugees, and these collections could interfere with our collection efforts’…. Ben-Gurion’s statement at the meeting: ‘No rationalization can turn the conference from a harmful to a useful one. What can and should be done is to limit the damage as far as possible.'” (Boas Evron, Jewish State or Israeli Nation? as quoted in “The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict,” by John Quigley, second edition, p. 21.)

        That saving Jews from the Nazis was not the priority of American Zionists was clearly shown during the war. When President Roosevelt became aware of the dire circumstances of European Jews (who were thought at the time to be about 80% of the total number of refugees), he sent his close friend Morris Ernst (a key member of the Democratic party and leader of the New York Jewish community) to London during the middle of the war to see if England and the Commonwealth would join the United States and other countries in taking in a half million Jewish refugees through a generous worldwide policy of political asylum once Hitler was defeated. (Roosevelt felt he could sell the plan to the American Congress if Britain agreed.)

        Ernst returned home jubilant and advised the President that Britain agreed to “match the United States up to 150,000.” Roosevelt replied:”150,000 to England – 150,000 to match that in the United States – pick up 200,000 or 300,000 elsewhere, and we can start with half a million of these oppressed people.” One week later, however, the President informed Ernst that the program had to be abandoned because “…the dominant vocal Jewish leadership of America won’t stand for it…the Zionist movement knows [that it] can raise vast sums for Palestine by saying to donors, `There is no other place this poor Jew can go.'”

        Ernst refused to believe Roosevelt and went about seeking the support of American Jews for the plan. Their response shocked him: “I was thrown out of parlours of friends of mine who very frankly said, `Morris, this is treason. You are undermining the Zionist movement’. [I found] a deep genuine, often fanatically emotional vested interest in putting over the [movement in men] who are little concerned about human blood if it is not their own.” (Morris Ernst, So Far So Good, Harper & Brothers: New York, 1948, pp. 172-177)

        The Zionists made it very clear to Truman that their backing would only be forthcoming if he did not impede their efforts to take possession of Palestine by allowing European Jewish refugees to immigrate to the United States. “…an aide sympathetic to Zionism [advised Truman] not to offer haven to Jewish displaced persons in the United States as this would dilute the argument that an independent Jewish state was required to absorb them.” (Charles Smith Palestine And The Arab Israel Conflict, p. 128)

        Ben-Gurion and the Jewish Agency were preventing European Jews who had found temporary sanctuary in Palestine during the war from returning to their homes. Britain was well aware of this and Lord Halifax, British Ambassador to the United States made a point of informing Secretary of State Byrnes “that the Zionists were using every possible form of intimidation to stop Jews from leaving Palestine to go back to Europe and play their part in its reconstruction.” (FR: 1945, Vol. Vlll p. 775; cited by Lilienthal, The Zionist Connection, p. 52)

        During an interview in 1951, one of America’s most renowned theologians, Dr. Louis Finkelstein of the Jewish Theological Seminary in Manhattan declared that he had always felt “if United States Jews had put as much effort into getting [Jewish] D.P.’s admitted to this country as they put into Zionism, a home could have been found in the New World for all the displaced Jews of Europe.” (Quoted by Lilienthal, WPI?, p. 36)

        BTW, historic Palestine was/is not the “homeland” of Zionist Jews. It was/is the homeland of Palestinian Arabs who along with their ancestors have lived continuously between the River and the Sea for over 15,000 years. (
        Front. Genet., 21 June 2017 |

      • amigo on February 5, 2018, 2:29 pm

        Jack , there you go again.

        Please come up with some new fake news.That copy & paste spiel you just posted for the umpteenth time is getting , even your supporters bored.

        BTW when are you going to acknowledge the Nakba.

      • Keith on February 5, 2018, 5:34 pm

        JACK GREEN- “Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries.”

        Prior to the modern era, Jews, on average, did better than the Gentile peasants (the majority of Gentiles) in these “majority-gentile” countries. Perhaps that is why Jews chose the “service nomad” lifestyle (see “The Jewish Century” by Yuri Slezkine). If you can’t be a nobleman, better to be a craftsman than a peasant.

      • Keith on February 5, 2018, 5:58 pm

        JACK GREEN- “Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries.”

        Perhaps you have heard that there is an increase in European anti-Semitism? Have you wondered what might be contributing to it? Perhaps you are aware of US support for the Ukrainian neo-Nazis? Uber neocon Zionist Victoria Nuland was the driving force behind that move essentially supported by US neocon Zionists. Something similar is going on in Poland. I link to an interview with Max Blumenthal discussing this very same phenomenon of Zionists supporting anti-Semites when it furthered their nationalist objectives. Link to Max Blumenthal on US support for Ukraine/Poland neo-Nazis:

      • Mooser on February 5, 2018, 7:25 pm

        “Prior to the modern era, Jews, on average, did better than the Gentile peasants”

        You need to break that down, and quantify, “Keith” to grasp the significance of the economic data. Survey says:

        Over 50% of medieval Jewish peasants described themselves as “comfortable” and 37% reported they “make a living”. Almost 23% say “The food tastes like poison” while 17% claim the portions are too small.

      • wondering jew on February 5, 2018, 10:14 pm

        The Jews of Odessa suffered a pogrom in 1871. Their economic role in society did not translate into equal protection under the law. The Jews had a higher median income, but were subject to the caprice of the police.

      • JosephA on February 6, 2018, 12:27 am

        Yet again, Jack Green spouts nonsense. Let’s correct some of his misstatements:

        1. Jews lived for thousands of years in the majority-gentile countries of the Middle East in peace and prosperity.
        2. Jews were obviously quite safe in the Middle East until the zionists attacked Jews in Iraq and in other Arabic-speaking countries

        Mr. Green also clearly has not read much writing from the founders of zionism.

      • Maghlawatan on February 6, 2018, 8:04 am


        What was special about a pogrom was how much a departure it was from normality. Jews had an economic status normally. They were allowed to work. Compare that to Gaza today with 80% unemployment and 1000 killed by Israel every few years
        Stop moaning about the past. The Palestinian present is grotesque and run by your people.

      • MHughes976 on February 6, 2018, 9:35 am

        I see no problem in accepting that Jews have been subject to much prejudice and unreasonable hostility in the Christian world. That fact is not negated by the facts that many non-Jews have behaved well and that some Jews have behaved badly. If Jack Green is putting it to Dan, in this iteration of one of his same-word memos (which don’t give the impression that he’s paying much attention to what others are actually saying). that one reason why (Christian) American opinion has supported Israel is to make up for evil in former times I think he may be right. I have certainly had rather sharp reminder of parallel sentiment among Germans. But even if this reason is widely accepted it’s still a very bad reason, amounting to a sort of inverse racism, in which being of a certain ancestry or ethnicity deflects moral questions entirely.

      • Keith on February 6, 2018, 9:41 am

        YONAH FREDMAN- “The Jews of Odessa suffered a pogrom in 1871.”

        Your comment, like virtually all descriptions of historical anti-Semitism, is anecdotal in nature. So, for example, if you were to look at the murder rate per capita of Jews versus non-Jews for an extended period of time in Russia, what would the data show? If you were to look at the incidence of lynching per capita in the US of Jews versus non-Jews, what would the data show? Rates of incarceration, etc? You think the Russian peasants were safe from the Czar’s secret police and troops? During the Thirty Year War, one-third of the population of Prussia was killed. How many were Jews? European history was extremely bloody and a lot of different groups of people suffered. And have you forgotten Genrikh Yagoda?,7340,L-3342999,00.html

      • eljay on February 6, 2018, 9:47 am

        || MHughes976 @ February 6, 2018, 9:35 am ||

        Good comment. Unfortunately, two of the core tenets of Zionism are:
        – Acts of injustice and immorality committed against Jews justify acts of injustice and immorality committed by Jews.
        – Jews are entitled to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality they would not have others do unto them.

      • Eva Smagacz on February 6, 2018, 11:12 am

        yonah freeman, you said:

        “The Jews of Odessa suffered a pogrom in 1871”.

        Yes, they really didn’t manage to get on with Greeks in Odessa, did they? May have something to do looking after number 1 and with backing Ottoman Empire….

        But the loss of life of thousands of Christian Europeans that allowed for The German Empire to be founded on January 18, 1871, is just an irrelevant bleep in history, totally unworthy of yonah’s attention.

        And imminent loss of live of African refugees being kicked out of Israel is non-subject, because in 1871……….(!)


      • MHughes976 on February 6, 2018, 11:46 am

        Thanks for kind word, eljay. Reliable primary sources for Odessa 1871, with casualty figures, aren’t that easy to find: the local paper reported that ‘diverse’ police measures were taken to stop street fighting, others mentioned police brutality. However, when all is said and done, there was a widespread element of unreasonable anti-Semitism throughout Europe pre-1945. Which does not to the slightest degree justify what the Israelis do to the Palestinians.

      • Mooser on February 6, 2018, 4:36 pm

        “Their (Jews) economic role in society did not translate into equal protection under the law.” “yonah”

        As it did in the US?

      • wondering jew on February 6, 2018, 10:57 pm

        I happened to be reading ” the Jews of odessa” by zipperstein, which is why I cited that specific pogrom. The response has been gratifying to those who like to revel in the overlap of venom towards zionism and the other venom.
        Israel will need to fix its problems with its neighbors despite the facts of history.

        The yehudim succeeded in odessa in the 19th century and were curious about russification. But riots of this sort put a bit of a damper on the russification project. Blithe comments from the peanut gallery. True colors come shining through.

      • inbound39 on February 7, 2018, 3:23 am

        Jack Green is using Goebbels Propoganda 101 here. If you tell a lie often enough it will be believed.

      • Mooser on February 7, 2018, 11:45 am

        .” If you tell a lie often enough it will be believed.”

        Goebbels had 90 million people in Germany to repeat his lies. There aren’t enough Zionists to lie enough to change reality.
        And there will be fewer still in the future.

    • Talkback on February 4, 2018, 3:33 pm

      Mooser: “Jackdaw” THIS IS THE 18th TIME YOU HAVE POSTED THIS SAME COMMENT!!! Do you copy/paste, or do you know it by rote?”

      It’s copy paste. Typical Zionist spam bot who repeats his spam countles times while ignoring every counter argument.

      See the comments from “Johnson11b” (or “m1945”):

      • Bumblebye on February 4, 2018, 7:31 pm

        If you check his profile it shows he used to be m1945 here on MW too.

  7. Maghlawatan on February 4, 2018, 10:23 am

    The GOP is as Norm Ornstein called it. An insurgent outlier . Trump is running an authoritarian corporatist regime which is by the rich for the rich. Zionism is no longer a mainstream issue if the Dem numbers are so low.

  8. wondering jew on February 4, 2018, 12:56 pm

    Regarding dynamics of change: Israel stands for the status quo and Palestinians stand for change, and certainly young Democrats grass roots advocates are change oriented in their political philosophies, thus in the conflict, the natural youth position, even before appeals of identity and colonialism is tilted against israel.

    The American public in general though, is rather apathetic towards foreign policy, which changes only at time of war.

    • Mooser on February 5, 2018, 6:10 pm

      “Regarding dynamics of change: Israel stands for the status quo…” “yonah fredman”

      So you think the occupation is a status quo?
      “America’s motto “e pluribus unum”. Israel’s national anthem, nefesh yehudi homiya. These are 2 very different ideas.
      Can the Zionist acceptance of the nakba as necessity allow for a full acceptance of Palestinian equality on the land?

      My own view: the unceasing war between Israel and her neighbors is an indication of a failure on Israel’s part .
      So which is it, “war” or “status quo”?

      • wondering jew on February 5, 2018, 10:29 pm

        Status quo does not necessarily imply a stable nonviolent situation. I think a cold eye would look at the region and see turmoil. The idea that the withdrawal of us support for Israel would bring forth some world of peace and prosperity is not argued by anyone. Thus it is change for change sake as the bias.
        I watched “land of pomegranates” recently. And “the settlers” too. I think a rebellion against Netanyahu is an appropriate human Palestinian response and empathy for them is an easy choice. But the chaos of the region turns most people off and they don’t want to hear it. But the young ‘uns are oriented to favor change.

      • Mooser on February 6, 2018, 3:21 pm

        “Status quo does not necessarily imply a stable nonviolent situation”

        Well, as long as you are happy with the status quo, “yonah”, as turmoiled as it is, and feel the Jewish people can profitably keep it up indefinitely, and all the alternatives presented are unsuitable, I guess nothing will ever change. How could it?

  9. Ozma on February 4, 2018, 2:28 pm

    Fear not, spinmasters. This is a problem for snipers, Diebold machines, and the National Endowment for Democracy. If polls and elections weren’t valid for Crimea, the Ukraine, and Syria why should they be valid for us?

  10. on February 4, 2018, 7:19 pm

    “Just as Americans can question and criticize the Trump administration while still loving their country and remaining patriots, so too can Americans criticize Israeli policies and its leaders.”

    And risk being called an antisemite? having your career ended, your good name smeared, death threats, branded a racist ….

    • Citizen on February 7, 2018, 5:25 am

      My, that’s mighty big of them, eh? Next thing you know they will be telling us wide-eyed fellow Americans something like:

      “Just as Americans can question and criticize the Trump administration while still loving their country and remaining patriots, so too can Americans criticize Russian policies and its leaders.”

  11. Dan From Away on February 4, 2018, 11:27 pm

    @ Jack Green


    Everything I mentioned is happening now, either here or in Palestine.

    Everything you mentioned happened years, decades, centuries ago.

    See the diff?

    Even assumng that everything you claim is true and complete (it is not) what does that have to do with the distorted, self-serving polls that Zionism is consumed with?

    I was pointing out that Zionism asks stupid, self-serving questions. Then you popped in (helpfully) and made a series of stupid, self-serving comments.


    • Mooser on February 5, 2018, 12:13 pm


      “Dan”, I have come to the conclusion that a deep, child-like faith in the world’s philo-Semitism actuates Zionists.

      They are convinced even a cursory recitation of Jewish grievances and historical injustices will be met with immediate offers of double-indemnity restitution. And moral, political and legal carte blanche.

      • RoHa on February 5, 2018, 6:30 pm

        And yet Zionists also believe that nearly everyone in the world is a slavering, fanatical, incurable, dyed-in-the-wool, murderous anti-Semite, just longing for a chance to cut Jewish throats.

        Consistency is not their strong point.

      • Mooser on February 5, 2018, 6:45 pm

        “Consistency is not their strong point.”

        And their alternation between poles so rapid it must be measured in kilo-, or even mega-Herzls-per-second.

      • JanetB on February 5, 2018, 6:56 pm

        Reasoned thought id not their strong point

  12. eljay on February 5, 2018, 7:48 am

    … The Jewish Democratic Council of America said the poll is faulty.

    … Just as Americans can question and criticize the Trump administration while still loving their country and remaining patriots, so too can Americans criticize Israeli policies and its leaders.

    What the JDCoA – a Zionist organization – isn’t saying is that this only works if Americans adhere to Zionist guidelines for criticizing Israel’s policies and its leaders. Failure to comply may – and very likely will – result is smears of “anti-Semitism” and “Jew hatred”.

    • on February 7, 2018, 9:40 am

      Devils in the details – thx eljay

  13. Kathleen on February 7, 2018, 2:10 pm

    While the situation for Palestinians certainly seems to have gotten much worse as people become more aware of the facts having to do with conflict. It would seem at one point there would have to be a shift in favor of human rights and social justice for them.

    That Dems and Republicans alike would come to the realization that standing up to Israel when it comes to the expansion of illegal settlements and criminal treatment of Palestinians is not in their favor ultimately.

  14. echinococcus on February 8, 2018, 2:49 am

    That’s an interesting discussion but ultimately it is all utter nonsense:

    To “sympathize more with the Palestinians than with Israel” means zilch, operatively speaking. It sure doesn’t mean anything like supporting Palestinian resistance, or the Palestinian people in any way, because being with the Democrats or supporting the Democrats only means providing material support to the Zionist oppression, period. No possible exception. Anyone who would contest this please bring facts rather than the usual Lib nonsense.

    There is no single example, ever, of the “Democratic” Party ever having produced an end effect diverging from the will of the Owners of the Party and the Country.

    “Sympathizing” with the Palestinians while at the same time supporting the genocide by materially supporting the Democrat Party (a direct participant in the theft and genocide of Palestine) is nothing but trying to keep a clean conscience while committing murder.

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