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The struggle of Palestinians is the struggle of Native Americans

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My name is Rebecca Miles. I was born and raised on the Nez Perce Indian Reservation and I am enrolled Nez Perce.  I have lived my entire life in Lapwai, Idaho and since 2009 I have been the Executive Director of the Nez Perce tribe.

I have spent my entire adult life committed to the protection and preservation of the Nez Perce way of life and culture that has largely included fighting to free the flooded and barricaded lower Snake River along with improving habitat for ESA/Treaty fisheries resources.

I have learned that with many issues, whether it be the struggle of Native Americans or the struggle of Palestinians, it comes down to the tug and pull of scarce resources that are often sacred to one or more groups of people inhabiting the same area and based on various cultural or political views.  In these struggles, it can often mean that a group of people is deprived of the right to use a valuable resource that they have known to have accessed for thousands of years.  This difference in culture and religion along with strong and adverse political views has been the cause of millions upon millions of groups of people being killed for their resources.

Rebecca Miles. (Photo courtesy of the author)

When it comes to Palestinian issues, there is no difference.  It is another indigenous group of people being kept from their own waterways, resources and ways of life.  The history of that area has proven to be brutal over the course of hundreds of years including our most recent century making major changes to the formation of the state of Israel.  This is exactly like the United States coming in and making all these treaties that have been broken within months and just a few years of enacting and also making all these States that form the United States of American, all on indigenous land.  This has changed the way of life for our people to this day.

What the Palestinians are fighting for is to be who they are intended to be by the Creator.  No different than my people, we want to be upon the land that we came from and fish the waters that our forefathers fished and be good stewards of the land, protecting it for our next seven generations.  We, much like the Palestinians, have the problem of who gets the land now and how the resources are managed on that land.   This creates a firestorm of issues that are in direct conflict with one another.

The issues of Israeli citizenship also cut deep within the Palestinians as much like my people, those types of privileges are not the same for Indian people but are made to protect those in power.  It has meant institutional colonialism and racism toward the Palestinians.

There are strong parallels not just with Palestinians, but with all indigenous cultures of the world.  We have all been here for thousands of years.  We know how to manage our resources and land under the highest protection while living in an entire state of Peace.  This seems so foreign when countries are overrun.  Peace.  I want to communicate the similarities we share as people along with the sense of camaraderie that we must help each other and stick together as our issues are the same.

We are no different.  I would love to see a world where justice can mean peace for both the Israeli and Palestinian people and it can be accepted by both sides.  This includes the ability for Palestinians to be able to freely be able to resettle in their homelands and also have the financial resources to assist the millions and millions of refugees in re-establishing themselves in their own homeland.

Until we can find some common ground, these battles will continue.

I hope any act, small or large, on my part, can lead toward an end with Peace and Justice for all.

Rebecca Miles
About Rebecca Miles

Rebecca Miles is currently serving as the Executive Director of the Nez Perce tribe. She was formerly the first Woman Chair of the Nez Perce Tribe, along with serving as the youngest person to hold that position. She has a Bachelor’s degree in Criminal Justice from Washington State University and a Master’s degree in Organization Leadership from Gonzaga University. Rebecca was a prestigious German Marshall Memorial Fellow in 2007 and received a National River Hero Award through the National River Network.

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87 Responses

  1. Citizen
    Citizen
    May 1, 2018, 11:08 am

    Broken and nonexistent treaties leading up to the Nez Perce war: http://nativeamericannetroots.net/diary/753

    • gamal
      gamal
      May 1, 2018, 12:51 pm

      I have always thought “Chief Joseph” was about the most elevated human being I had ever of, on the reservation his white Doctor gave his cause of death as “A broken heart”, native heart technology has significantly improved since then now they don’t break.

  2. Jackdaw
    Jackdaw
    May 2, 2018, 12:49 am

    @Rebecca.

    The Jews are the indigenous tribe to Eretz Yisroel. They’ve survived thousands of years of persecution and genocide.

    Think about it.

    • Marnie
      Marnie
      May 2, 2018, 8:50 am

      Right. The zionists have always had the market on the media and have basically coopted the status as victim so real victims past, present and future have to take a fucking number. Sorry Rebecca, Jack’doff and the zionist horde are too busy creating victimization stories and you have to know by now that zionists always make sure they gets top billing or possibly the only billing. Poor babies.

      • Boris
        Boris
        May 2, 2018, 9:17 am

        The prosecution of Jews over the centuries is well documented.

        The history of Roman expulsion of Jews is also well documented.

        As the matter of fact, some better educated Native Americans regard Israel as the first example of indigenous people returning to their ancestral lands.

      • eljay
        eljay
        May 2, 2018, 9:35 am

        || Boris: … As the matter of fact, some better educated Native Americans regard Israel as the first example of indigenous people returning to their ancestral lands. ||

        They need a better education:
        – Geographic Palestine is not the “ancestral land” of every person in the world – of every citizen of every homeland all over the world – who has chosen to be Jewish.
        – Mass migration, terrorism, ethnic cleansing and colonialism undertaken by Zionist Jews for the purpose of establishing, expanding and maintaining a religion-supremacist state in a foreign land does not constitute “returning”.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 2, 2018, 12:24 pm

        “The prosecution of Jews over the centuries is well documented.”

        You bet! There are Jews being prosecuted (sic) today in the United States!
        And some of them get convicted, too.

      • Keith
        Keith
        May 2, 2018, 12:58 pm

        BORIS- “The prosecution of Jews over the centuries is well documented.”

        Documented in Zionist myth-history, not real history. It has only been more recently that Jews have even been concerned about Jewish history.

        “Classical Judaism had little interest in describing or explaining itself to the members of its own community, whether educated (in talmudic studies) or not. It is significant that the writing of Jewish history, even in the driest annakistic style, ceased completely from the time of Josephus Flavius (end of first century) until the Renaissance, where it was revived for a short time in Italy and in other countries where Jews were under strong Italian influence….The first book on Jewish history proper (dealing with ancient times) was promptly banned and suppressed by the highest rabbinical authorities, and did not reappear before the 19th century.” (p19,20, “Jewish History, Jewish Religion,” Israel Shahak)

        “All modern studies on Judaism, particularly by Jews, have evolved from that conflict, and to this day they bear the unmistakable marks of their origin: deception, apologetics or hostile polemics, indifference or even active hostility to the pursuit of truth. Almost all the so-called “Jewish studies in Judaism,” from that time to this very day, are polemics against an external enemy rather than an internal debate.” (p22, Shahak)

        “But in my opinion a far more important reason was the social role of the Jews as an integral part of the upper classes. In many countries Jews were treated as potential nobles and, upon conversion, were able immediately to intermarry with the highest nobility. The nobility of 15th century Castile and Aragon or the aristocracy of 18th century Poland – to take two cases where intermarriage with converted Jews was widespread – would hardly be likely to marry Spanish peasants or Polish serfs, no matter how much praise the Gospel has for the poor.” (p67, Shahak)

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        May 2, 2018, 1:21 pm

        Netanyahu accuses Palestinian president of antisemitism

        Abbas accused by US and Israel of stirring religious hatred in speech blaming Jewish role in banking for historical massacres

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/02/us-and-israel-accuse-palestinian-president-of-antisemitism

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        May 2, 2018, 1:26 pm

        Palestinians Should ‘Shut Up’ or Make Peace, Saudi Crown Prince Told Jewish Leaders

        The crown prince of Saudi Arabia reportedly harshly criticized Palestinian leadership during a meeting with American Jewish organizations in New York last month, slamming Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas for rejecting peace offers.

        “In the last several decades the Palestinian leadership has missed one opportunity after the other and rejected all the peace proposals it was given,” Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman told the Jewish organizations, Barak Ravid of Israel’s Channel 10 reported Sunday for Axios. “It is about time the Palestinians take the proposals and agree to come to the negotiations table or shut up and stop complaining.”

        * * *

        […]Saudi Arabia and Israel have grown increasingly close in the past few years, as both governments are concerned about the threat of Iran and its allies in the region.

        During his American tour, MBS told “60 Minutes” that Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was “very much like Hitler.” He also told The Atlantic that Israelis “have the right to their own land.”

        https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/palestinians-should-shut-up-or-make-peace-said-saudi-crown-prince-1.6036624

      • eljay
        eljay
        May 2, 2018, 1:36 pm

        || Sibiriak: … https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/02/us-and-israel-accuse-palestinian-president-of-antisemitism ||

        … “The Nazis believed that Germans were racially superior and that the Jews, deemed inferior, were a threat to the so-called German racial community … ”

        While in Israel Zionists believe that Jews are special and that non-Jews represent a (demographic) threat to the so-called “Jewish State”.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 2, 2018, 1:59 pm

        “The prosecution of Jews over the centuries is well documented.
        The history of Roman expulsion of Jews is also well documented.”

        So nue, so sue. So are we a “special” race, like “Mayhem” (someone get in our way someone don’t feel so well) says or are we getting consolation prizes for being one of history’s losers? Never have figured it out.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        May 2, 2018, 4:14 pm

        Roman expulsion of Jews is a complex topic, but it is clear as day that there was no expulsion from the whole of modern Israel.

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        May 2, 2018, 4:59 pm

        I hate the whining inherent in ” The prosecution of Jews over the centuries is well documented. ”

        Assuming that Boris means persecution and not drinking Prosecco, of course. WTF.

        The past was gruesome for women, peasants, ethnic minorities, religious minorities, sexual minorities and others who were different. The idea that Jews were singled out is plain wrong.
        Many groups were consistently excluded from official histories.

        Women would have a far better claim to restitution than Zionist morons do, if we were to take history seriously. But Zionism isn’t serious, is it?

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        May 3, 2018, 1:17 am

        “As the matter of fact, some better educated Native Americans regard Israel as the first example of indigenous people returning to their ancestral lands.” What a racist ziosupremacist remark. So ‘better educated’ must mean they have sympathy for the devil? Most Native Americans see the takeover of the land of Palestine exactly for what it is – the modern day colonialization of native people with all the accoutrement of colonialism from their own history – murder, rape, theft, dehumanization, imprisonment, no access to clean water, food, electricity, health care, school, etc., etc., with Gaza being the largest reservation in the world.

      • Keith
        Keith
        May 3, 2018, 5:19 pm

        SIBIRIAK- “Netanyahu accuses Palestinian president of antisemitism”

        Confronted with graphic evidence of Israel committing murder and maiming to maintain an illegal, immoral and inhumane blockade of Gaza, what can Netanyahu do? Get his hired shill Abbas to talk about the Holocaust and Jewish financiers in order to divert attention? Looks like it, doesn’t it?

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        May 4, 2018, 4:13 am

        May I slip in here a report on the latest success of anti-anti-Semitism and of the vocal reminders of Jewish feelings and sentiments – it’s becoming clear as morning advances here in the UK both that Corbynism has seriously lost momentum in the UK local elections, not making those much anticipated major mid term gains, and that the effect has been marked in areas where the anti-anti-Semitism campaign was most likely to be effective, notably the London Borough of Barnet, where 15% of the population, I think, is Jewish and where many non-Jews would doubtless have been influenced by the strongly stated views of respected Jewish neighbours. The Conservatives actually made a midterm gain in this important local authority. The anti-Corbyn push within the Labour Party will gather strength from this, I think.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        May 4, 2018, 9:23 am

        @MHughes976

        Yet despite all the anti labour, anti Corbyn campaigning the labour share of the Barnet vote actually increased by 3%.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        May 4, 2018, 10:51 am

        @MHughes

        Just came across this and thought it amusing and relevant.

        BBC billed as impartial and unbiased. Even respected around the world at one point.

        Newsreader is presenting elections in which labour made the biggest gains and the cons lost seats as a con victory.

        Ever impartial she mentions Barnet “We took Barnet”. Roughly 13 second mark.

        https://twitter.com/MillersManiac/status/992389393766854656?s=19

        Note… in fairness some say she says retook. I listened again amd think they may be right.

        Anyway… these elections are the best results for labour since 1971 despite all the attacks and Israeli money poured into stopping Corbyn. They may well be on track to the best results ever in the next general election.

      • annie
        annie
        May 4, 2018, 11:48 am

        oldgeezer, i was googling around for the results of the election last night and noticed the framing of several articles about ‘upcoming labour disappointment as it doesn’t look like they’ll win as many districts as they wanted’ without really indicating who was in the lead. i thought, i guess they are still counting, but just seemed like a meme of ‘labour loss’ was being pushed and then from some districts that they lost (which i think were traditionally tory anyway, it said anti semitism might have been a factor. hmm.

        edit, trying to open your link and found this, exactly!

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        May 4, 2018, 12:08 pm

        @annie

        Considering the time, expense and effort put into discrediting Corbyn and Labour this is def a huge loss for the conservatives an, also, the right wing zionist smear machine.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        May 5, 2018, 1:04 pm

        I think that the general view in today’s UK papers, as the dust settles, is that Corby.n has suffered a check, though not really a reverse, and that much is still to play for. Sir John Curtice in the Independent was his usual sensible self, though I don’t have his exact remarks in front of me, having left them in the coffee shop. The anti-Semitism effect was not too noticeable outside Barnet, but Corbyn needed to win Barnet, rather than suffer a 20% swing against him, if he was to stop the campaign against him in its tracks. Wandsworth, the other Tory flagship he wanted to capture, escaped him by a small margin, so maybe the campaign made a difference there too, though the local Tories hardly seem to think so. Things will sputter on, with the expulsion of Ken Livingstone the next question perhaps. However, I think we have sadly to conclude that accusations of anti-S have not lost their power. And I’m afraid we have to set that fact beside the other fact, noted by Patrick Cockburn the other day, also in the Independent, that in terms of international opinion Israel is all but getting away with atrocities on its ‘borders’. The road is still long and the night is quite dark.

      • annie
        annie
        May 5, 2018, 1:16 pm

        but i read Barnet has not been majority labor since 74 or something. they had one rep on the last council and he lost this time or something. but the press went gonzo over it. did labor really expect to win in Barnet this time?

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        May 5, 2018, 3:54 pm

        This week’s Council elections are irrelevant. 2 huge events are coming up on the near side.

        The first is the tory civil war over Brexit which wil be triggered by a pragmatic decision by May to agree to a demand by the EU to stay in the customs union, for example.
        The second event that hasn’t hapened yet is the collapse of UK Thatcherism in the form of an economic crisis which wipes out the pensions of millions of voters.

        Corbyn is the anti neoliberal and has built his party around what comes after. I think this is partly why he has been attacked on antisemitism. My guess is that the Jewish community doesn’t want inflation and wealth redistribution.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        May 6, 2018, 12:49 am

        “The road is still long”
        and getting longer,
        ” and the night is quite dark”
        and getting darker.

    • eljay
      eljay
      May 2, 2018, 9:05 am

      || Jackdaw: … The Jews are the indigenous tribe to Eretz Yisroel. … ||

      There exists no “Land of Israel”. Jewish is the religion-based identity acquired / held by people of homelands all over the world. Palestinians were and are the indigenous people of geographic Palestine.

      || … They’ve survived thousands of years of persecution and genocide. … ||

      Not a single person alive today who has chosen to be/come Jewish can claim to have “survived thousands of years of persecution and genocide”.

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw
        May 2, 2018, 11:57 am

        @eljay

        “There exists no “Land of Israel”.

        7 million Israeli Jews beg to differ.

        “Palestinians were and are the indigenous people of geographic Palestine.”

        What was the name of the Roman province that preceded Syria-Palestina?

        Good bye, eljay. Don’t get lost in the high grass.

      • eljay
        eljay
        May 2, 2018, 12:05 pm

        || Jackdaw: @eljay

        “There exists no “Land of Israel”.

        7 million Israeli Jews beg to differ. … ||

        Correct: The State of Israel – the state of all Jewish and non-Jewish Israelis – exists. The “Land of Israel” does not.

        || … “Palestinians were and are the indigenous people of geographic Palestine.”

        What was the name of the Roman province that preceded Syria-Palestina? … ||

        Roman provinces did not exist in the 20th century…or the 19th century…or the 18th century…or the 17th century…or the 16th century…et cetera.

        || … Good bye, eljay. Don’t get lost in the high grass. ||

        See ya later, Jackdaw. I hope Konrad Lorenz forgives you.

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        May 2, 2018, 12:18 pm

        Jackdaw

        It was called Netanyahu by the Romans. There are coins in the display in the Jewish museum of chutzpah in Bnei Brak with the name on them.

        Who was the Israeli minister for finance in 1856?

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        May 2, 2018, 4:44 pm

        THE indigenous people of anywhere is a very strange idea

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        May 2, 2018, 9:24 pm

        “7 million Israeli Jews beg to differ.”

        Argumentum ad populum?

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        May 3, 2018, 1:32 pm

        “Not a single person alive today who has chosen to be/come Jewish can claim to have “survived thousands of years of persecution and genocide”.

        Bravo eljay –

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 3, 2018, 6:42 pm

        “Argumentum ad populum?”

        I’ll say. He ads almost 2 million to the populum.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 3, 2018, 6:48 pm

        “Not a single person alive today who has chosen to be/come Jewish can claim to have “survived thousands of years of persecution and genocide”.

        Yes, but we can’t help but be affected by the knowledge of how things went, compared to the way Jewish history was supposed to go.
        It’s hell having a history which never goes like its supposed to.

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        May 3, 2018, 6:50 pm

        Eljay,
        I think that’s a misinterpretation if Jackdaws comment.
        In this article, Ms. Miles States,”can often mean that a group of people is deprived of the right to use a valuable resource that they have known to have accessed for thousands of years.”
        I do not think that she means that members of her tribe have individually accessed these resources for thousands of years. She means that the Nez Perce as an ethnic group have. Jackdaw is referring to Jews in the same regard.

      • annie
        annie
        May 3, 2018, 7:13 pm

        ”can often mean that a group of people is deprived of the right to use a valuable resource that they have known to have accessed for thousands of years.”
        I do not think that she means that members of her tribe have individually accessed these resources for thousands of years.

        she means that members of her tribe, both individually and as a group, have accessed the valuable resources of their land for thousands of years, and then cut off, deprived from access. the same can not be said of jews in palestine. for the most part, the vast majority of jews in the world made no effort to access the holy land for way more that thousand of years. and it’s extremely likely the majority of those who stayed converted over the years and became palestinians a long long time ago. it is those (ex)jews along with the rest of palestinians who are now being denied access.

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        May 3, 2018, 8:59 pm

        Annie,
        I understand your viewpoint. But regardless of whether or not you agree with Jackdaws statements, I believe that Eljay’s statement misinterpreted Jackdaw’s. No one believes that individuals alive today of any group were alive hundreds or thousands of years ago.

      • eljay
        eljay
        May 3, 2018, 9:20 pm

        || Jon66: Eljay,
        I think that’s a misinterpretation if Jackdaws comment.
        In this article, Ms. Miles States,”can often mean that a group of people is deprived of the right to use a valuable resource that they have known to have accessed for thousands of years.”
        I do not think that she means that members of her tribe have individually accessed these resources for thousands of years. She means that the Nez Perce as an ethnic group have. Jackdaw is referring to Jews in the same regard. ||

        Jackdaw’s comment comprised two separate assertions and failed on both:
        – Geographic Palestinians – not foreigners the world over who have embraced the religion-based identity of Jewish – are the indigenous people of geographic Palestine.
        – Geographic Palestine is the resource geographic Palestinians are known to have accessed (continuously) for centuries.
        – It is geographic Palestinians – not Jewish foreigners – who have been deprived by Zionists of the right to use their valuable resource.
        – Jews have not suffered persecution and genocide (continuously) for a thousand years – neither individually nor as a group.

      • eljay
        eljay
        May 3, 2018, 9:25 pm

        || Jon66: Annie,
        I understand your viewpoint. But regardless of whether or not you agree with Jackdaws statements, I believe that Eljay’s statement misinterpreted Jackdaw’s. … ||

        And I believe that Jon66 has appeared simply to blow smoke.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 3, 2018, 10:37 pm

        “Jackdaw is referring to Jews in the same regard.”

        Exactly. We were cheated by history. We could’a been a contender.

      • gamal
        gamal
        May 3, 2018, 11:06 pm

        “We could’a been a contender”

        when you take a dive in Hoboken you can always get a rematch at Armageddon, the big boss doesn’t anyone win all the time, there are no undefeated by the time the credits roll.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 3, 2018, 11:29 pm

        “And I believe that Jon66 has appeared simply to blow smoke.”

        Maybe if I give him a “Jews sui generis” lapel button he’ll be happy and take his censer elsewhere.

      • eljay
        eljay
        May 4, 2018, 2:37 pm

        || Mooser: Maybe if I give him a “Jews sui generis” lapel button he’ll be happy and take his censer elsewhere. ||

        I’m not sure he uses a censer.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 4, 2018, 4:23 pm

        “I’m not sure he uses a censer.”

        “Jon66”? He’s a “husband, father, surgeon” and glysterer.

    • Maghlawatan
      Maghlawatan
      May 2, 2018, 11:10 am

      Ashkenazi Jews have SFA to do with The Middle East. Nobody in the Middle East pronounces r German style, schmucks.

    • zaid
      zaid
      May 2, 2018, 2:32 pm

      Jakdaw

      Ashkenazi (European) Jews are indigenous to Europe and has nothing to do with Palestine.
      Palestine is the historical homeland of the Palestinians who are the descendants of the those who lived in Palestine for thousands of year as proven by History, Genetics and archaeology.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        May 2, 2018, 4:18 pm

        Wherever they’re indigenous they have every right to be treated as equals with no discrimination as to ancestry or religion and no right to exclude people from their homes or to rule them in disfranchised state. Hum an rights aren’t about where your ancestors came from.

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw
        May 3, 2018, 9:38 am

        Eretz Yisroel is the homeland of the Jews.

        The Arabian conquerors homeland is Arabia.

      • eljay
        eljay
        May 3, 2018, 12:45 pm

        || Jackdaw: Eretz Yisroel is the homeland of the Jews. … ||

        There exists no “Land of Israel”. Jewish is the religion-based identity acquired / held by people of homelands all over the world. Palestinians were and are the indigenous people of geographic Palestine.

      • zaid
        zaid
        May 3, 2018, 6:43 pm

        The Arab conqurors were just that, conquerors.
        There were never a population transfer following the Arab conquest similar to all other conquests ( like the british).

        Palestine was called the land of Cannan. Read your Bible.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        May 3, 2018, 11:07 pm

        “Eretz Yisroel is the homeland of the Jews.

        The Arabian conquerors homeland is Arabia.”

        Can I get this straight, please, Jackdaw?

        It looks to me as though this is your story:

        1. First there was a tribe called “the Jews”, who were indigenous to Palestine.
        2. Even though their folk tales claimed they were descended from an Iraqi migrant who bought a chunk of land from the natives.
        3. Other people, those natives, who lived there didn’t count. No Jews ever had children with the others.
        4. The Romans drove this tribe out. Every Jew left Palestine and went to live in Poland or Golders Green.
        5. They were surrounded by other people, but no Jews ever had children with the others.
        6. For a while Palestine was inhabited by Graeco-Romans and the various odds and sods who had lived there with the Jews.
        7. Then a bunch of Arabs from Arabia moved in and took over the land.
        8. They never had children with any of the people who were already living there, and those people failed to have any children of their own.
        9. The modern Palestinian Arabs are descendants of those Arabs, and those Arabs only. They are certainly not descended from the others.
        10. The modern Palestinian Arabs are not indigenous to Palestine.
        11. So the modern Palestinian Arabs have no right to live in Palestine.
        12. Modern Jews are indigenous to Palestine by descent from the Jews who lived there.
        13. So modern Jews have a right to live in Palestine, and to set up an exclusive state there.

        Is that it?

        If so, I have to say that it looks a bit odd.

        First, of course, there is the heroic restraint shown by Jews and Arabs in managing to keep it all in the tribe. No hanky-panky in the woodshed,no-one led astray by a honeypot tongue and a flimmery eye. A bit hard to believe, that.

        Second, why didn’t the others in Palestine have any descendants? What happened to them?

        Third, the principle seems to be that descent from a conquerer does not grant indigeneity, no matter how many generations ago that conquest was, but (via 2) descent from a migrant does. Not easy to see why this is so, though the implied consent of the other indigenes in the latter case could be a basis for an argument. But it does seem to imply that modern Jews are also indigenous (by migration) to Poland and Golders Green.

        Fourth, how does being indigenous give the rights referred to in 13, and why does not being indigenous imply 11?

      • gamal
        gamal
        May 3, 2018, 11:44 pm

        “Hum an rights aren’t about where your ancestors came from”

        my dear sweet naive little darling…i don’t come from anywhere and personally never rank order anything however like a dumb little maze inhabiting shrew i have a mental map of my rights which i only ever exceed when i think i can get away with it, you know what i mean hughes.

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw
        May 4, 2018, 1:15 am

        @zaid

        Conquerors AND settlers. Many ‘Palestinian’ family names are Arabian, or Egyptian, in origin.

        If Arabs didn’t settle in ‘Palestine’, than how did an Arabian blood feud manage to continue in ‘Palestine’?
        http://www.palestine-family.net/index.php?nav=6-20&did=2544

        Zaid?
        Zaid?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 4, 2018, 1:16 pm

        .” First there was a tribe called “the Jews”,”

        Just as a suggestion, wouldn’t it more accurately be the plural ‘tribes called “the Jews”‘? There were a bunch of them.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 4, 2018, 1:23 pm

        “No hanky-panky…. A bit hard to believe, that.”

        The Laws of Family Purity are very strict, and contain a eugenic component which anticipated medical genetics by a thousand years!

    • Blake
      Blake
      May 6, 2018, 11:04 pm

      Yes you are the indigenous people of a fictitious place. More inclined to believe an intellectual or anthroplogist than a privileged racist settler colonial troll from Europe – ie “PALESTINIAN ARABS DESCENDED FROM NATIVES BEFORE ABRAHAM” – PROFESSOR PHILIP K. HITTI

  3. Maghlawatan
    Maghlawatan
    May 2, 2018, 8:47 am

    Great post. Settler colonialism is a curse. The environmental angle is so important. Israel planted alien European pine trees over the Palestinian villages it razed . They are firetraps in Méditerranean heat.
    40 people died when they caught fire in 2011.
    FFS

    5 people died when a bridge collapsed and they fell into a polluted river in Tel Aviv during a sports event.

    Israel bombs the land with poisons. Settlers do not give a shit.

  4. Elizabeth Block
    Elizabeth Block
    May 2, 2018, 3:44 pm

    Bravo (or rather brava) Rebecca Miles. There are Indigenous Canadians who have swallowed Israel’s hasbara. We call them Red Zionists. So glad you’re not one of them.
    There are indeed some Jews who are indigenous to Palestine. They were, and are, mostly traditional religious Jews, despised and sometimes dispossessed by the Ashkenazi Jews from Europe who founded Israel.

    • MHughes976
      MHughes976
      May 2, 2018, 4:51 pm

      Mind you, the Bible tells us that the Israelites were not (in an important sense) indigenous anywhere. The mandate of God override the rights of others for whom God’s plan – for the good of all – was different. At a later stage, that of Ezra and Nehemiah, the trueJews were not at all ‘the people of the land’ but a special group of people especially purified, such again was God’s plan, by the experience of exile and by winning the trust of great kings. You don’t have to believe the Bible, of course, but it’s an important testimony.

    • Jackdaw
      Jackdaw
      May 5, 2018, 2:25 am

      @Elizabeth Block

      You don’t know what you’re talking about either.

      Ashkenazi Jews descended from Italian Jews who had migrated North and into France and Germany.
      The Italian Jews had come from….guess? Eretz Yisroel!

      Did these migrants, mostly single male tradesmen, marry local women? Of course.

      BTW. My family migrated to Eretz Yisroel in 1811. They were attacked and vilified by the local Arabs and Ottomans, not by the arriving Zionists.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 5, 2018, 1:09 pm

        “BTW. My family migrated to Eretz Yisroel in 1811.”

        “My family?” Okay, I also call my in-laws “my family.”

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        May 6, 2018, 1:04 am

        “Ashkenazi Jews descended from Italian Jews who had migrated North and into France and Germany.
        The Italian Jews had come from….guess? Eretz Yisroel!

        Did these migrants, mostly single male tradesmen, marry local women? Of course.”

        So being indigenous to Palestine is inherited on the paternal line, even though Jewishness is inherited on the maternal line?
        Does not having local mothers make Jews in any way indigenous to Italy, France, and German?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 6, 2018, 1:37 pm

        “RoHa”, it’s complicated!

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw
        May 6, 2018, 2:00 pm

        @Roha

        “So being indigenous to Palestine is inherited on the paternal line, even though Jewishness is inherited on the maternal line?”

        The rules changed over time. It was kosher, back than.

        BTW, being Jewish isn’t strictly about genealogy, it’s more about customs, language, identity and ritual.

        Anything else?

      • eljay
        eljay
        May 6, 2018, 6:10 pm

        || Jackdaw: … BTW, being Jewish isn’t strictly about genealogy … ||

        Perhaps not, but seeing as how Jewish is fundamentally a religion-based identity the one thing Jewish is fundamentally and inescapably about is religion.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        May 7, 2018, 2:27 am

        “BTW, being Jewish isn’t strictly about genealogy, it’s more about customs, language, identity and ritual.”

        So you are agreeing that “the Jewish People” are not all simply lineal descendants of the ancient Palestinian Jews, but are a mixture of bloodlines who follow certain customs, speak a number of “Jewish languages”, follow certain rituals, etc.

        Can you explain how this makes them “indigenous” to Palestine, and why that alleged indigeneity gives any rights whatsoever?

        (Incidentally, I thought this “identity” thing was made up of customs, language, ritual, and similar ideas. However, you present it as a separate item. Could you tell me what it is?)

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 7, 2018, 12:07 pm

        ““BTW, being Jewish isn’t strictly about genealogy, it’s more about customs, language, identity and ritual.”.”

        Anotherwords, if it is useful to Zionism, whatever it is becomes Jewish. Excellent marksmanship makes you a Chief Rabbi.

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw
        May 8, 2018, 12:45 am

        @Roha

        Indigenous people are those people, identified with a locale, and where no other peoples can claim indigenous rights. If there were still identifiable Caananites alive today, than Jews would have no indigenous claims to Eretz Yisroel. Some Jews have remained in Eretz Yisroel for thousand of years, while most have migrated to the Diaspora. Leaving the land doesn’t forfeit indigenous rights. If an indigenous Polynesian moves to California, he may now be a Californian, but he is also still a Polynesian with indigenous claims to Polynesia. Arabs are not indigenous to Eretz Yisroel, because Jews, preceded them to the land and Jews are still alive. Arabs are indigenous to Arabia. Arabs are not indigenous to North Africa. Berbers and Tuaregs are indigenous to North Africa. Japanese are not even indigenous to Japan, Ainu people are the indigenous.

      • eljay
        eljay
        May 8, 2018, 9:22 am

        || Jackdaw: … Indigenous people are those people, identified with a locale, and where no other peoples can claim indigenous rights. … ||

        Right: Palestinians are indigenous to geographic Palestine.

        || … If there were still identifiable Caananites alive today, than Jews would have no indigenous claims to Eretz Yisroel. …

        Right again: If there were still ancient Israelites alive today, then Palestinians would have no indigenous claim to geographic Palestine. But there are no ancient Israelites alive today, so Palestinians do have the indigenous claim to geographic Palestine.

        || Some Jews have remained in Eretz Yisroel for thousand of years … ||

        These Jews are indigenous to geographic Palestine.

        || … while most have migrated to the Diaspora. … ||

        These Jews are not indigenous to Palestine. They are indigenous to their respective homelands all over the world.

        || Leaving the land doesn’t forfeit indigenous rights. If an indigenous Polynesian moves to California, he may now be a Californian, but he is also still a Polynesian with indigenous claims to Polynesia. … ||

        Right again:
        – That Polynesian is still Polynesian. But his descendants two thousand years from now will be Californian and will have no claim to any part of the territory of Polynesia.
        – Palestinians who left or were driven from geographic Palestine still have claims to geographic Palestine.

        Thanks for clearing that up.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        May 8, 2018, 10:15 am

        @jackdaw

        The Caananites called and want you to gtfo their country.
        https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/canaanite-bible-ancient-dna-lebanon-genetics-archaeology/

        ” many scholars believe that the Israelites, who appear around the beginning of the Iron Age, may have originally been Canaanites.”

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        May 8, 2018, 12:42 pm

        “The Caananites called and want you to gtfo their country.”

        They want parts of their religion back, too.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        May 8, 2018, 1:04 pm

        It is clearly possible for more than one group to be ‘identified with a country’ if that means ‘ be generally regarded as normal inhabitants there and to have strong cultural traditions concerning the place’. That is true of the Japanese and the Ainu, though the ‘general regard’ is stronger with the Japanese, even though their ancestors were invaders. The English are identified in this sense with England, though the Welsh were here first. The Jews are unusual in having an ideology which emphasises that they were in a place in ancient time without indigenous status or rights but because God had given them a right which overrode all others ‘not for their merit’ but for his greater plan.
        It is very hard, without an idea of divine mandate, to think of being indigenous is a source of rights if one can claim indigenous status by killing or driving out others who have not done you any harm. Meanwhile, the criteria for inheritance from ancient times seem to me to vary from biological to cultural, in most presentations, almost from sentence to sentence. But I think that if you scratch the surface the idea of divine mandate is always there just below.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        May 9, 2018, 1:50 am

        “Indigenous people are those people, identified with a locale, and where no other peoples can claim indigenous rights.”

        You just made up that “no other peoples” bit, didn’t you? Why (as MHughes notes) can’t two sets of people both be indigenous?

        http://mondoweiss.net/2017/05/senators-bodies-against/#comment-878817
        http://mondoweiss.net/2017/05/senators-bodies-against/#comment-878839

        “Arabs are not indigenous to Eretz Yisroel, because Jews, preceded them to the land and Jews are still alive.”

        Misplaced comma before “preceded”.
        Probably some descendants of the Jews who lived in Palestine before the Arabization of the land are still alive.
        Probably most of those descendants are Palestinian Arabs.

        “Arabs are indigenous to Arabia.” Arabs are people who speak Arabic are a first language. They are indigenous to whichever Arabic speaking country they were born in.

        http://mondoweiss.net/2017/12/trump-pushed-solution/#comment-899929

        And what are these “indigenous rights”?

        http://mondoweiss.net/2017/09/democratic-candidate-illinois/#comment-890783

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        May 9, 2018, 7:08 am

        Arabic as a first language.

  5. Maghlawatan
    Maghlawatan
    May 2, 2018, 5:05 pm

    Something that both native Americans and Palestinians have faced is the attempted destruction of their cultures by the settlers. Because without culture, indigenous people have very little in terms of defence. And even though the Palestinians were traumatised after 1948 they refused to give up who they were. And it is because of the work that those 2 or 3 generations did that there are Palestinians today who can fight so impressively.

    • gamal
      gamal
      May 2, 2018, 5:51 pm

      thank you that was fascinating,

      “we didn’t want to be who our oppressor wanted to be so er that whole drunken Indian time……………but thats the Indian who saved us”

      “I will not become you”

      thank you a lot of people can relate to that insight

  6. genesto
    genesto
    May 2, 2018, 7:02 pm

    Interesting how the Zionists are able to turn arguments against them on their heads. Instead of the Zionists being the obvious, current-day version of the white Christian settlers of this country that dispossessed the native Americans of their land, they, once again, become the victims whose bravery and steadfastness in fighting off the local savages resulted in the establishment of the glorious state of Israel! These characters always seem to take chutzpah to new heights of absurdity!

    I have another, Zionist bizarro-world example for you. I had an argument with a Zionist crazy recently, who claimed that Palestinians consider Jewish lives a thousand times more valuable than their own. Otherwise, why would they continue to have prisoner exchanges where they give up 1 Israeli Jew for a thousand Palestinian prisoners? I kid you not. Someone made this argument straight-faced. I was so stunned I couldn’t respond!

    • JWalters
      JWalters
      May 4, 2018, 1:46 am

      Yes, they should leave 999 Palestinians as prisoners. Very logical.

  7. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    May 5, 2018, 2:29 pm

    @Jackdaw
    BTW. My family migrated to Eretz Yisroel in 1811. They were attacked and vilified by the local Arabs and Ottomans, not by the arriving Zionists.

    No doubt your granny told you this. The same granny who had been told about it by her granny who was etc.

    No surprise that “arriving Zionists” would not attack fellow “arriving Zionists” unless there was some sort of Rabbinical internal cult fighting going on at the time.

    I can of course understand why the 1811 native residents of your Ersatz Israel should resent the arrival of colonists claiming rights of chosen Biblical ownership to a land which was not theirs

    • Blake
      Blake
      May 6, 2018, 10:59 pm

      A first-hand glimpse of the pioneering zionist settlers came from:
      1] Jewish essayist Asher Zvi Ginzberg. Visiting Palestine in 1891, he reported that the settlers “behave towards the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, trespass unjustly upon their boundaries, beat them shamefully without reason and even brag about it.”
      2] “A campaign of terror modelled almost on Russian pogrom models.” – Dr Paul Nathan writing in the NYT on the early Zionist settlers in Palestine,1914
      3] Ben-Gurion in 1951: Only Death Penalty Will Deter Jews From Gratuitous Killing of Arabs https://israelpalestinenews.org/ben-gurion-1951-death-penalty-will-deter-jews-gratuitous-killing-arabs/

  8. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    May 5, 2018, 2:53 pm

    MHughes976
    ” However, I think we have sadly to conclude that accusations of anti-S have not lost their power”

    I doubt that the non – Jewish voting electorate in any of the councils had “Labour Party can`t vote for them they are Anti-Semites” thoughts in their mind when they ticked their ballot papers. Much more important and relevant to the UK issues to sway them. Yes the majority ( but not necessarily all ) of Jewish voters in Barnet probably were “swayed” and there was likely a big Jewish voter turnout which impacted on the result there.

    I think it is more a question of the Zio bent UK Media and a range of Zio bent UK Politicians having a vested interest in maintaining the anti-S bullshit alive for as long as Jeremy Corbyn the Pro – Palestinian is potentially the next UK PM. If he does become PM there is no plan B.
    I also believe that long before the next general election the UK electorate will have become sick and tired of having this Anti -S crap shoved down their throats and will clearly recognise and call it out for what it essentially is = a foreign Government interfering in our elections.

    • MHughes976
      MHughes976
      May 8, 2018, 12:43 pm

      The other Labour setbacks were in Midlands towns like Nuneaton where there is an insistence on Brexit. I too doubt if the anti-Semitism issue was very weighty there or in South areas like mine where the anti-Brexit Liberal Dems had a rather pallid revival. A little sense among middle class people that Labour, bombarded by press and BBC, are not necessarily the good guys perhaps.
      But the London effect was significant. Some London boroughs are long standing testimonies to the success of Thatcher in creating a strong inner city Conservative presence – Wandsworth most of all. This time the overall London polling indicated a big movement to Labour and there were unwisely unmanaged expectations about Wandsworth and Barnet, the latter because Labour was nearly in charge already, with 30:31 councillors. But the result in Barnet was a damaging 20% (I’ve read) swing to the Conservatives, a big movement. The Labour vote went up but the Conservative vote went up much more.
      I’ve also read that Barnet is 15% Jewish and home to all of 20% of UK Jewish people, putting Jewish people in a good position to influence their liberal-minded neighbours. This had to be the result of the anti-anti-Semitism campaign, gaining a win where it was most targeted. I am told that this proves nothing much about the overall future of British politics, which is true. But I think it plain that the frequent expectation among us on Mondoweiss that charges of anti-Semitism, especially when supported by strongly emotional statements by prominent Jewish people with a progressive reputation, are becoming stale with repetition gets no support from these troubling events. On the contrary. they have drawn blood and will be used again, very much with the effect of minimising pro-Palestinian sentiments. All this unfolded beside the Gaza crisis, which sadly and rather scandalously touched no public nerve.
      The Battle of Barnet in 1471 seemed to settle the future of the Kingdom and by the end of the year most of the Lancastrian leaders were dead or in exile. But the fanatical Lancastrian Edward de Vere survived Barnet and some 15 years later led his side to really final victory at Bosworth and Stoke. Things can change.

  9. Maghlawatan
    Maghlawatan
    May 5, 2018, 3:57 pm

    I think indigenous people have lot of cultural resources that many white people don’t.
    Israel is a cultural wasteland given all the energy devoted to hatred.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhRQe4OeQlk

  10. MHughes976
    MHughes976
    May 8, 2018, 1:15 pm

    This thread has got a bit a detached from Rebecca Miles’ concerns and that is partly my fault. I know that there has been an American Indian Movement for some decades, though I am very Ill informed about its progress or setbacks. Is there any idea corresponding to a 2ss – the number of different groups is far higher than 2, of course. But is there any claim for sovereignty in some areas of the United States and Canada?

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