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Message to my white Jewish friends: I feel no more fear and rage after Pittsburgh than I feel every day as a black person in this country

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on 72 Comments

I am sobbing with terror and rage. Innocent people murdered in cold blood for who they were, victims of hateful bigoted rhetoric, rhetoric that targets me and my loved ones. I am feeling helpless and endlessly weary as this tragic cycle continues, as I fear I may be next. And I wonder why no one in my Jewish community appears to care.

Oh, did you think I was talking about the synagogue shootings on Saturday? My bad. No I was describing my reactions to the cold blooded murder  of two African American shoppers in a grocery store last week by a white man who blew off their heads with a pistol and then told a horrified witness, “Don’t worry, whites don’t shoot whites”.

Or maybe I’m remembering how I felt back in September when a black man was murdered in his living room by a white police officer who mistakenly entered the wrong apartment.

Or maybe I’m having flashbacks to July 2015 when a white supremacist shot dead 9 Black Americans at a church Bible study.

Now, it’s not as though the Jewish community completely ignored these atrocities. There were statements of concern, condemnations, calls to attend rallies and sign petitions.

But this was the polite sympathy of outsiders. Decorous. Respectful. “So sorry for your loss”.

There is nothing polite or decorous about your reaction today. Today I hear despair and terror, unmuted rage, heart wrenching sobs. Jewish friends are calling and tweeting to check in with each other, mourn together. I’ve received condolences and offers for rabbinic counseling, “safe spaces” online to process my grief.

I have a message for all of you, my white Jewish friends. I feel no more fear, no more rage, no more terror than I did two days ago. No more than I have felt every day as a black person in this country.

For the past year, every Jewish organization I’m connected with has been examining its connections to racism and white supremacy. There have been workshops and meetings and conferences about “decolonizing” and “racial reconciliation “ and “ashkenomrativity”. There have been calls to recognize and include Jews of Color; why we’ve become positively trendy. For the first time in 25 years, I was beginning to feel that I was truly part of the Jewish community, that Ashkenazi Jews were making an honest effort to include people like me as part of the tribe.

I was wrong. Your reaction today made me see that. As I watch and listen to you today, I realized, “Ah. I get it. This is what it looks like when you actually care”.

A Jewish community that sincerely valued its Jews of Colors would have reacted with equal passion and sorrow to the black deaths in Louisville last week. Where were the supportive calls to your black Jewish friends, the counseling offers, the sobbing, the anger? Did you even notice?.

Did it ever occur to you that the rage and terror you are experiencing today is how I have felt my entire life?

It is not only that you have largely ignored the anguish of your black community members, it’s that you have once again directed the focus and outrage away from anti black racism and centered it on yourselves.

Believe me, I understand your pain. I understand how this terrible shooting evokes spectres of the holocaust, and Europe’s centuries of unspeakable anti Semitic crimes which drove your families to flee.

But as I wrote last summer:

“For Jews, Nazi symbols evoke a terrifying, traumatic past. For African Americans, they evoke a terrifying, traumatic, unending present. White Jews may be shocked at this undeniable evidence of US racism; African Americans merely see more of the same. Black people did not need to be reminded by  hoods and swastikas that we live in a dangerously racist country.”

Yes, you are vulnerable. You have a right to your rage and your terror. But you do not have the right to ignore or diminish mine, to imply that yours is greater or more significant. There is nothing unique about your suffering.

And you can not continue to ignore that your Jewish community includes many who are doubly burdened; your black, Brown, indigenous, trans members who face the terror of anti semitism without the all encompassing  shelter of white, cis privilege.

So as you attend your vigils and say Kaddish for the victims of Tree of Life, remember Louisville. Remember Mother Emmanuel. Remember Pulse Nightclub. Say a prayer for all the “beaten and butchered and betrayed and martyred children of the earth”. And try to remember that we are your family too.

A version of this post first appeared on Lesley William’s website The Cranky Librarian.

Lesley Williams
About Lesley Williams

Lesley Williams organizes around Islamophobia issues with Jewish Voice for Peace in Chicago, and is on the Strategies and Values team for the Center for Jewish Nonviolence. She is a featured speaker for Jews Against Anti-Muslim Racism and has spoken about Islamophobia, racism and antisemitism at numerous conferences, webinars and on the TREYF podcast. Lesley is a Chicago United for Equity fellow and has been recognized locally for her anti racist activism.

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72 Responses

  1. Paranam Kid
    Paranam Kid
    October 29, 2018, 1:47 pm

    Lesley, an excellent, poignant article, well done !

    “You have a right to your rage and your terror. But you do not have the right to ignore or diminish mine, to imply that yours is greater or more significant. There is nothing unique about your suffering.

    And you can not continue to ignore that your Jewish community includes many who are doubly burdened; your black, Brown, indigenous, trans members who face the terror of anti semitism without the all encompassing shelter of white, cis privilege.”

    With these 2 paragraphs you hit the nail on the head, because the white Jews love to play the victim of racism and keep saying or implying that racism against them is more widespread than any other form of racism, which is simply NOT true.

    If they were really concerned about racism, they would not keep insisting on using the term antisemitism, with which they suggest that anti-Jew racism is worse than any other form of racism and needs to be addressed immediately, while all the other forms of racism can be attended to as and when convenient.

    They don’t even care about their black/coloured brethren who undergo the ‘double whammy’, they (the white Jews) never even mention them in public.

    • Jon66
      Jon66
      October 29, 2018, 7:32 pm

      Paranam,
      The majority of Jews don’t consider ourselves a race. So we do not consider hatred of Jews as racism.

      Islamophobia is hatred of Muslims.
      Homophobia is hatred of homosexuals.
      Transphobia…

      Since Jews don’t consider ourselves a race anymore than Muslims, gays, etc we therefore use a term that is both more specific and we believe more accurate.

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        October 30, 2018, 9:10 am

        @ Jon66

        You don’t even have the courage to speak for yourself, always hiding behind “we”. Are you so arrogant that you feel you can speak for jews? Do us a favor and don’t.

      • Paranam Kid
        Paranam Kid
        October 30, 2018, 9:47 am

        @Jon66: with all due respect, that is a lot of baloney. The majority of the Jews DO consider themselves a race, which is the foundational argument of claiming their state. There is no religious group in the world that can claim, nor has ever done so, a state on the basis of religion, not even the Jews.

        To try to give their claim legitimacy they claim that Jews are a race and a religion. The race thing is nonsense, of course, because through the ages many different races got mixed in; arguable the Jews cannot even be called Semites anymore, in any case the Palestinians are more semitic than the Jews.

        There is no reason to use “antisemitism” as a category apart from racism, or, to put it in a broader context, from bigotry. Bigotry, whether against Jews, Muslims, Blacks, or whatever, needs to be fought as a category of despicable social behaviour, and there is absolutely no reson whatsoever that the Jews deserve special treatment, as the author of the article above has made patently clear.

        And if you want to insist that the Jews don’t see themselves as a race, then the state of Israel has no “raison d’être”.

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        October 30, 2018, 10:01 am

        @Jon66

        ‘Do us a favor’ – I did just what you did and apologize for the hypocrisy. Let us be clear and speak for ourselves.

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        October 30, 2018, 10:14 am

        Marnie,
        Instead of the ad hominems perhaps you could address the substance?
        Do you consider Jews a “race”?
        Do you disagree with using the term anti semitism in reference to hatred of Jews?
        Do you think I’m incorrect in my assessment of the majority of Jewish opinion?

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        October 30, 2018, 10:54 am

        Paranam,
        I think the majority consider themselves an ethnic group, “nation” or “people”. Not a race. Jews are composed of many different races as you have said.
        The question is whether or not the use of a specific term describing the discrimination against Jews is any different than specific terms used to describe discrimination against Muslims, gays etc. Do you object to these other terms as well?
        I certainly don’t dispute the idea that we need to end discrimination against everyone, but I don’t object to more specific terminology. We need to fight cancer, but it doesn’t harm us to describe breast cancer as different from mesothelioma cancer. The causes and treatments are different.
        Is there a harm in labeling something as homophobia instead of the generic term discrimination?

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        October 30, 2018, 10:57 am

        Marnie,
        We can speak for ourselves. Neither you or I are spokesmen for “The Jews” but that doesn’t mean that my statements are inaccurate. Do you disagree with them?

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        October 30, 2018, 1:26 pm

        @Jon66

        1) There is but one race, human. However, there seems to be a lot of jews who feel they are a race, a people and have a shared destiny according to an old book.
        2) Mr. Bowers has been crystal clear about his hatred of jewish people, and that’s the definition of antisemitism. But I would think he hates plenty of others, don’t you?
        3) Yes I do. I think you’re incorrect in your assessment of just about everything though just on GP because you’re a bit of a dick. Oops there goes another ad hominem, ker plop.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        October 31, 2018, 1:25 am

        I don’t mind using a separate term to refer to hatred of Jews.

        What I do object is the use of such terms as “anti-Semitism”, “racism”, etc. as a means of avoiding debate.

        If one criticises Israel, or unrestricted immigration, or Polish notation for formal logic, some people (quite a few for the first two examples) scream “anti-Semitism”, “racism”, “anti-Łukasiewiczism” with the intention of shutting down all discussion.

        This seems to me to be a major error. There might be a few imperfections to Israel, unrestricted immigration might have drawbacks, and perhaps parentheses are not as bad as the antiparenthesists fear. But without discussion, we will never find out.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        October 31, 2018, 11:38 am

        “I think the majority consider themselves an ethnic group, “nation” or “people”.”

        And tell me, what do you get for being a “nation” or “people”?
        It must be better than what you get for being a “race”, since you don’t like that.

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        October 31, 2018, 5:04 pm

        Roha,
        I agree. I’m not in favor of restricting speech based upon a hate/no hate description. I do think that some speech in particular serves to inflame rather than educate. Some terms encourage hatred. But I don’t think that these words should be banned or restricted by law.
        I do object to categorizing hatred of Jews as racism since I do not view “Jewish” as a race.

      • Paranam Kid
        Paranam Kid
        November 2, 2018, 12:50 pm

        @Jon66: no, the Jews are not a “nation”, nor a “people”, nor an “ethnic group”. Through history the Jews have intermarried, proselytised, converted out of Judaism and back again, and as such have become a mixture of races, ethnic groups, nations. It is the narrative fabricatedby the Zionists to justify stealing land from the Palestinains and setting up their project.

        Today intermarriage is still a phenomenon, it is even increasing in intensity, what with Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians AND stoking up anti-Jew racism. There are Chinese Jews, African Jews, African American Jews, Indian Jews, Khazars, and so on and so forth.

        So, I am sorry to have to disappoint you, but the Jews are not a homogeneous biological group. Judaism is a religion, with various cultural traditions around it, all of which vary depending on the geographical area. In fact, the Palestinians are more homogenous Semites than the Jews, and like you correctly state, Israel has no raison d’être. The so-called “right to exist” is nonsense.

        Having a term specially for anti-Jew racism to get “focus” is pure nonsense and your analogy with cancer is bogus. Racism, as a sub-category of bigotry, is a cancer that needs to be fought, irrespective of whom that racism is against. The focus on anti-Jew racism is yet another narrative of Israel, as well as many Jews around the world, the get the attention as I described above. That is absolutely despicable and disingenuous.

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        November 2, 2018, 3:25 pm

        Paranam,
        “So, I am sorry to have to disappoint you, but the Jews are not a homogeneous biological group.”
        I agree completely. As I said, Jews are not a race. So anti-Jewish hatred is not racism.
        Do you object to the terms Islamophobia, homophobia, or transphobia? Do you want to group all bigotry under the umbrella of racism? If so, I think it’s not helpful but would at least be consistent.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 2, 2018, 4:06 pm

        || Jon66: … Do you object to the terms Islamophobia, homophobia, or transphobia? Do you want to group all bigotry under the umbrella of racism? If so, I think it’s not helpful but would at least be consistent. ||

        I agree that we should be consistent and, to that end, call hatred of Jews “Judeophobia”.

        Zionists may have to work a little harder to Judeophobically conflate Judeophobia with anti-Zionism and criticism of Israeli (war) criminality, but it seems a fair price to pay for consistency.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 2, 2018, 5:02 pm

        “So, I am sorry to have to disappoint you, but the Jews are not a homogeneous biological group.

        Well, perhaps a case could be made that we are some sort of “homogeneous biological group” since we have some “Jewish Genetic Diseases” of our own.
        I was shocked when I discovered there are a host of genetic diseases known as “Jewish”, but Googling shows it’s an accepted fact, and not considered antisemitic at all.

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        November 3, 2018, 7:32 am

        Eljay,
        I bet I can guess what you have with your burger.
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 3, 2018, 9:12 am

        || Jon66: Eljay,
        I bet I can guess what you have with your burger.
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries ||

        So…are you saying that you don’t want to be consistent? Or are you saying that you do want to be consistent and you’re not worried about the extra work the consistency will cause you?

      • Paranam Kid
        Paranam Kid
        November 3, 2018, 10:11 am

        @Jon66:

        “Do you object to the terms Islamophobia, homophobia, or transphobia?”

        You have a good point there. The real issue, in my mind, is that the Jews are able to claim the bulk of air time for “their” racism, when the rest of racism and bigotry are a lot more widespread but get far less attention. That is highly curious, for as Elias Davidson pointed out to the German ambassador in Iceland once:

        “Far more Arabs and Muslims have been mistreated and even killed in recent years for racist motives in Europe and by Europeans than Jews. Jews occupy a privileged position in European political, economic and cultural life, far exceeding their proportion in society. It is a joke to read that the most privileged community in Europe (and the United States) laments about being persecuted. Nothing can better reinforce the myth of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion than observing European governments bowing to pressure by Jewish leaders in this respect.”

        Source: http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Berlin.htm, in the comments section below the article.

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        November 3, 2018, 12:14 pm

        Eljay,
        “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.”
        I’m saying there is a widely accepted term for the issue. Consistency of taxonomy will only confuse rather than help clarify things. I don’t object, but why bother?

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        November 3, 2018, 12:22 pm

        Paranam,
        Every minority who is discriminated against would like it to stop.
        Are you upset because the Jewish community is more effective than others in raising the issue? Should they drop it because there are others with larger populations or harsher treatment? We would need to create a list of priorities and then rank who gets to ask for fair treatment first. So should white women be quiet until all trans black men are treated well?

      • annie
        annie
        November 3, 2018, 12:41 pm

        As I said, Jews are not a race. So anti-Jewish hatred is not racism.

        jon, i think your concept of what racism means is outdated and misinformed. not that different from people who say anti semitism means hatred against semites. it might sound like it means all semites, but the term means something different.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Legal

        The ideology underlying racist practices often includes the idea that humans can be subdivided into distinct groups that are different due to their social behavior and their innate capacities as well as the idea that they can be ranked as inferior or superior.[2] Historical examples of institutional racism include the Holocaust, the apartheid regime in South Africa, slavery and segregation in the United States, and slavery in Latin America. Racism was also an aspect of the social organization of many colonial states and empires.

        ……According to the 1965 UN International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,[18]

        the term “racial discrimination” shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

        so arguing that jews are not a race is not an argument to support the false claim that hatred of jews is not racism, because it certainly is. both legally and otherwise.

        furthermore, in the context of this article, arguing about whether jews are a race is rather diversionary.

      • annie
        annie
        November 3, 2018, 1:02 pm

        Are you upset because the Jewish community is more effective than others in raising the issue?

        why do you think they’re more effective jon? might the accusation of anti semitism have anything to do with that. could it be that, like me [a white woman], jews are privileged members of our society? could it be that their voices are more amplified socially and through our media than members of our society who are structurally oppressed?

        Should they drop it because there are others with larger populations or harsher treatment?

        you mean drop, in PK’s words, claiming “the bulk of air time for “their” racism”? i think explaining why you think bigotry against jews should take precedence or be privileged institutionally might be a good place to start.

        We would need to create a list of priorities and then rank who gets to ask for fair treatment first.

        i think it’s arguable that list has already been established and your ‘group’ is on top of that list. please explain why you think that is. or if you do not agree what group do you think gets the most air time, including legislation.

        So should white women be quiet until all trans black men are treated well?

        no, we shouldn’t necessarily be quiet, we should use our voices to amplify and empower the rising up of voices who are ignored or systemically erased.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 3, 2018, 1:16 pm

        “Eljay,I bet I can guess what you have with your burger.”

        Poutine, of course. Something wrong with that?

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 3, 2018, 1:35 pm

        || Jon66: Eljay,
        “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.” … ||

        And Zionists are nothing if not consistent.

        || … I’m saying there is a widely accepted term for the issue. Consistency of taxonomy will only confuse rather than help clarify things. I don’t object, but why bother? ||

        So…you’re saying ‘yes’. Understood.
        _________________________________

        || Jon66: Paranam … Are you upset because the Jewish community is more effective than others in raising the issue? Should they drop it because there are others with larger populations or harsher treatment? … So should white women be quiet until all trans black men are treated well? ||

        It’s good to know that you’ll never again* resort to whataboutism in defence of Israel.
        _________________
        (*Until the next time.)
        _________________________________

        || Mooser: … Poutine, of course. Something wrong with that? ||

        Nothing wrong at all. A good poutine is a glorious thing!

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 3, 2018, 2:03 pm

        “Should they drop it because there are others with larger populations or harsher treatment? We would need to create a list of priorities and then rank who gets to ask for fair treatment first.” “Jon 66”

        As a matter of fact, “Jon 66” we can do that. In the US those who have been legislated against those who have had the power of the State turned against them are, yes, first in line for legal and other remedies.

        Is that the Jews in the US “Jon 66”? Or has our presence provoked a different state reaction from the US?

        I ask myself how on earth we ever managed to grow ’em so vain and naive at the same time.

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        November 3, 2018, 4:43 pm

        Annie,
        If we use your definition, which of these categories do Jews fall into, “race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin”?
        Do you really think that the bulk of airtime is spent fighting anti-semitism?
        The Jewish community has historically been active and supportive in the civil rights movement. But simply because anti-semitism has become less socially acceptable doesn’t mean we have to stop opposing it. Recent events tell us that hatred of Jews is alive and flourishing.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 4, 2018, 12:11 pm

        “Nothing wrong at all. A good poutine is a glorious thing!”

        And it is, it is, a glorious thing, to be a good poutine!
        For he is a good poutine! (He is! Hurrah for the good poutine!)

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 4, 2018, 12:31 pm

        || Mooser: “Nothing wrong at all. A good poutine is a glorious thing!”

        And it is, it is, a glorious thing, to be a good poutine!
        For he is a good poutine! (He is! Hurrah for the good poutine!) ||

        And when poutine I find – hurray!
        I help myself in a royal way
        I eat too much, oh yes it’s true,
        Than an aging eljay ought to do

        :-)

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 4, 2018, 4:11 pm

        Perhaps we doth poutine too much.

    • Marnie
      Marnie
      October 30, 2018, 9:03 am

      Excellent article and a truth that is conveniently ignored and minimized by most jews. You can get plastic surgery and change your name but you can’t change the color of your skin. Jews and the rest of the white world have absolutely no idea what people of color experience every minute of every day of their lives. Feel afraid? Try walking in their shoes.

      • Paranam Kid
        Paranam Kid
        October 30, 2018, 9:48 am

        @Marnie: so true.

    • drhmay
      drhmay
      October 30, 2018, 10:58 am

      Dear keeper of the “truth.” You know nothing about white Jews or what we care about. The fact that you group all Jews together is proof of your own prejudice. We are different but i can say that my role models are the Jewish lawyers, students and doctors that marched, fought for and even died in support of black civil rights. My heroes are the Jews who support the black, Asian, Muslim and every community denied due process, victimized and marginalized by others, whether members of the police or not. You know nothing about the vast majority of Jews who live in fear with generational trauma after centuries of genocide. And you cannot imagine how the death of a single Jew feels to a tiny minority of the world whose numbers have been decimated by every majority group or religion. So spare me your BS.

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        October 30, 2018, 1:33 pm

        Who is the keeper of the “truth”? I’m not really positive who you’re talking to, but BS – no, it’s amerikkkan history. Your heroes are the jews, not the “black, Asian, Muslim..”? Hmm. So you’re looking at someone else’s history and trauma and making it about you? Figures.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        October 30, 2018, 6:54 pm

        “You know nothing about white Jews or what we care about.” “drhmay”

        They’re a hard people to know, those “white Jews”.

      • Paranam Kid
        Paranam Kid
        November 2, 2018, 12:56 pm

        @drhmay: if the Jews would really live in fear with generational trauma after centuries of genocide, they would not let Israel treat the Palestinians like it does. The reality is that neither Israel, nor Jews who did not go through WW2 don’t live with any trauma.

        In fact, they only care about the Holocaust insofar as they can extract money out of Germany and companies, and get to act with impunity against the Palestinians and the Greater Middle East, as professor Norman Finkelstein so brilliantly demonstrated in his book The Holocaust Industry.

        Perhaps time for you for some introspection, become a bit more humble in your assertions, and above all cut the BS that you spew instead of accusing others of it.

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        November 2, 2018, 6:55 pm

        Paranam kid

        Israeli jews both ashkenazi and now Middle Eastern are carrying WW2 trauma just as Russians are. You can’t switch it off. Israel is a fucked up polity because of trauma. If Israel was normal it would have done a deal with the Palestinians years ago.

        Current events in the US are instructive. The Dems are normal. The GOP is for the birds. Israel is many degrees further in the process than the GOP.

      • Paranam Kid
        Paranam Kid
        November 3, 2018, 9:57 am

        @Maghlawatan: no, the Israeli Jews do not carry that trauma, that is just make-believe.

        As Laurent Guyénot explains (https://thesaker.is/is-israel-a-psychopath/):

        “Persecution is so essential to the Jewish identity that, when it does not exist, there is an urgent need to make it exist. An obsessional fear of anti-Semitism must be maintained in the minds of the Jews, for it is the glue that holds the community together, the only thing capable of resisting the dissolving effect of assimilation.”

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 3, 2018, 2:09 pm

        “do not carry that trauma”

        Really, there is one period of a person’s life when trauma can be very easily instilled and created. Infancy and childhood.

  2. Marnie
    Marnie
    October 30, 2018, 9:17 am

    I’m in no way minimizing the mass murder of jewish congregants last Shabbat. But this is amerikkka, the most dangerous place in the world for the african diaspora since 1619 and counting and amerikkka has mostly been a blessing to jews. Mass murder of african americans has a very long history in the u.s. up to very recently.

    • Paranam Kid
      Paranam Kid
      October 30, 2018, 9:50 am

      @Marnie: yet the Jews claim and get centre-stage all the time, no other form of racism/bigotry gets papered like so-called “antisemtism”.

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        October 30, 2018, 10:43 am

        But the murderer of the Tree of Life congregants was an actual antisemite spurred on by the vitriol of Fox News, who ran a story that the caravan of people heading toward the u.s. border are paid by jews. WTF? Fox News is the modern version of Der Sturmer.

    • drhmay
      drhmay
      October 30, 2018, 11:12 am

      Marnie. But you are minimizing. There is no need to compare suffering. Your statement is true but why engage is whataboutism at a time of tragedy? I’m not giving the author a pass either. Perhaps I should write an article complaining that Farrakhan and his ilk are insufficiently sad.

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        October 30, 2018, 1:15 pm

        @drhmay – perhaps someone already has; in fact, I’m sure of it because Minister Farrakhan is regularly dragged through the mud for being insufficiently sad or too radical.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 4, 2018, 4:24 pm

      ” and amerikkka has mostly been a blessing to jews”

      Well, we got a lucky break. George Washington sent us a get saying we are white.

  3. Paul Larudee
    Paul Larudee
    October 30, 2018, 1:06 pm

    Lesley’s article is not about diminishing anyone’s rage and horror, and there is no implication that one is greater or more significant that another, n fact, just the opposite. Her point was that Jews are giving Jewish suffering an importance greater than that of blacks.

    It’s hard to quantify, but this is not surprising, if true. It is human to give greater importance to what happens within a group with which one identifies. We cannot expect to give equal importance to everything that happens to all groups around the world. There are good reasons to do so, but it is contrary to human nature. Lesley identifies with both Jews and blacks, and sees the disparity. She renders a service by calling attention to it.

    Unfortunately, this natural tendency to group chauvinism also leads ultimately to racism. The most blatant example in this case is the call from “progressive Jewish leaders” for Trump to denounce white nationalism, while they clearly defend Jewish nationalism, AKA Zionism. Both are destructive, racist ideologies, but one is a candidate for (justified) denunciation, while the other is supported by the persons calling for the denunciation of the other. This and other forms of hypocrisy deserve to be recognized and called out for what they are.

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer
      October 30, 2018, 9:40 pm

      @Paul Larudee

      I agree with what you have said with one small twist or conditional.

      I particularly support these statements:

      “The most blatant example in this case is the call from “progressive Jewish leaders” for Trump to denounce white nationalism, while they clearly defend Jewish nationalism, ”

      ” It is human to give greater importance to what happens within a group with which one identifies. ”

      My exception is with “Unfortunately, this natural tendency to group chauvinism also leads ultimately to racism.” where I would condition by saying only if left unchecked. It is natural but rational people will put things in perspective upon reflection once the immediacy of the moment wears off.

  4. festus
    festus
    October 30, 2018, 2:41 pm

    What’s a secular Jew?

    Ever heard of any secular Catholics? Secular Protestants? How about Muslims? Buddhists?

    • catalan
      catalan
      October 30, 2018, 3:20 pm

      “What’s a secular Jew?” festus
      I am secular and I am Jewish and yet exist. Or perhaps I don’t exist. Or maybe I am not secular (sometimes I do dream of a benevolent presence in the sky). But I don’t observe rituals. Or I am not Jewish. Thus I am an American. Which would make the same as all Americans. But are all Americans the same? Such a contradiction, a secular Jew.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        October 30, 2018, 6:49 pm

        “I am secular and I am Jewish and yet exist.”

        Have you registered that preference with the State and Federal governments (Can be done on-line) and paid the excise and registration fee? Cause if not, you’re just talk.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        October 30, 2018, 9:43 pm

        @Festus

        As jon’s link show the “secular X” is a crock. It’s a meaningless self identification which has no rational basis. People who need to belong, want to belong, but don’t really believe the religious dogma.

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        October 30, 2018, 10:58 pm

        OG,
        I guess I drew different conclusions.
        Apparently there are secular Alawites as well.
        https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/02/syrian-president-alawite-what-does-that-mean-and-why-does-it-matter.html
        And Hindus
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism
        And Buddhist
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_Buddhism
        And Christianity
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism
        And Muslim
        https://www.cbc.ca/radio/tapestry/embracing-the-questions-1.3910793/the-danger-of-admitting-you-re-an-atheist-muslim-1.3910808

        It’s apparently pretty common. You can belong without the religious dogma. I guess that’s where the secular part comes in.

      • festus
        festus
        October 31, 2018, 11:52 am

        “The majority of Jews don’t consider ourselves a race.” Yet there are many secular Jews. And no secular Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. So quite clearly many Jews do consider themselves a race or tribe or whatever. I posted this to show your assertion is false….and you lecture me on what a secular Muslim is! Something that nobody has ever heard of — well, other than in Jeffrey Goldberg’s “The Atlantic”. I know when I want to know about Islam. Goldberg is the guy I go to! Oh, and the Seattle Globalist — and I could not even find out who runs that,

      • annie
        annie
        October 31, 2018, 12:24 pm

        festus, you not believing there aren’t any secular christians or muslims etc is not the same as no one self identifying like that. i know someone who considers himself a secular muslim i suppose because it’s the culture he was raised in w/the same customs etc. i didn’t confront him on that identification i just thought, interesting.

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        October 31, 2018, 1:11 pm

        Festus,
        I didn’t lecture you. But you asserted that there are not other people who are secular (fill in the blank).

        There are more things in heaven and earth, Festus
        Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

      • eljay
        eljay
        October 31, 2018, 1:46 pm

        || Jon66: … You can belong without the religious dogma. … ||

        Huh. And all this time I thought Jewish was a religion-based identity that is acquired by:
        – undergoing a religious conversion to Judaism; or
        – being descended from someone who underwent a religious conversion to Judaism.

        But now you’re saying that all the non-Jews living in and up to n-generations removed from “Jewish State” can belong to the Jewish people without having to worry about the religious dogma. They can live as equals in – or avail themselves of the “Law of Return” to – their ancient / historic / one true homeland.

        That is good news!  :-)

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        October 31, 2018, 2:36 pm

        “That is good news! :-)”

        Like a Doug Gilford MAD Magazine subscription ad: “Why Kill Yourself? Conversion is easy”

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        October 31, 2018, 4:55 pm

        “There are more things in heaven and earth, Festus
        Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

        And where are the things undreamt of in his philosophy, “Jon66”? In Zionism? In Judaism?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        October 31, 2018, 4:59 pm

        How freaking niave, how insulated from the world and its history does one need to be to think there is some advantage in being deemed a “race”?

        Yes, sir, by constantly reminding non-Jews of our genes and our means, we will become an elite race.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        October 31, 2018, 5:06 pm

        “But now you’re saying that all the non-Jews living in and up to n-generations removed from “Jewish State” can belong to the Jewish people without having to worry about the religious dogma.”

        “Eljay” that used to be the understanding. But then Israel passed the “Nation-State Law” and now non-Israeli Jews are simply supplicants, who can apply for Jewish status under the restrictions of the law. Naturally, to avoid foreign agents and ringers and legacy-seekers, it is an adversary process. The applicant must prove he is a Jew.

      • eljay
        eljay
        October 31, 2018, 7:08 pm

        || Mooser: … “Eljay” that used to be the understanding. But then Israel passed the “Nation-State Law” and now non-Israeli Jews are simply supplicants, who can apply for Jewish status under the restrictions of the law. Naturally, to avoid foreign agents and ringers and legacy-seekers, it is an adversary process. The applicant must prove he is a Jew. ||

        Jews having to prove they’re Jewish. Huh. So much for tribal unity. I can’t imagine that the Zionists here on MW – who very wrongly accused me of telling Jews how to be Jewish / how to interpret their Jewishness – are going to be anything less than furious at the “Jewish State” for actually doing just that.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 2, 2018, 2:26 pm

        “The majority of Jews don’t consider ourselves a race.” “Jon 66”

        We Jews are so modest. And lucky for the non-Jewish world we are.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      October 31, 2018, 11:44 am

      “What’s a secular Jew?”

      Me. I’m too secular for my shirt. Oy, too secular for my shirt.
      So secular it hurts! (And I’m too secular for Milan, New York, and Japan and too secular for your party. No way I’m horah dancing!)

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        November 1, 2018, 1:00 am

        Secular, fecular, follicular or trippindicular, but first do no harm.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 2, 2018, 2:19 pm

        You know, I was having a great time disco dancing until you mentioned “follicular”. Oh well, maybe somebody can put little lighted LED squares on my pate and remake “Saturday Night Fleaver” while I sleep .

        It’s bad, I tell you. When I go outside at night, the band plays “Stars Fell on Alopecia”

        I voted. We got mail-in here, but we like the ballot-drop box at the City Offices.

  5. Kathleen
    Kathleen
    November 2, 2018, 11:43 am

    While there should be heavy coverage of the brutal slaughter of 11 elderly Jewish people in their house of prayer on MSNBC etc. There should also be equal coverage of the two black individuals brutally gun downed in Kentucky. Barely been any coverage on MSNBC, CNN.

    This lack of coverage confirms who is valued and who is not on MSNBC etc Have been all over the host fb pages bringing attention to this.

    Shameful

    Would be an incredible issue for someone working on a Master or PHD thesis… So f’d up

    • Paranam Kid
      Paranam Kid
      November 4, 2018, 1:19 pm

      @Kathleen

      “There should also be equal coverage of the two black individuals brutally gun downed in Kentucky.”

      1. 2 is less than 11, therefore less important
      2. those 2 people were black, not white, therefore less important
      3. those 2 people were not white Jews so by default have less, not to say no, air time.
      4. since when have the likes of CNN and MSNBC not been biased?

  6. lonely rico
    lonely rico
    November 2, 2018, 3:55 pm

    > Mooser

    by constantly reminding non-Jews of our genes and our means, we will become an elite race.

    I guess that’s sorta like an
    elite beer.
    Less carbs and less alcohol –
    but that same great taste !

  7. wondering jew
    wondering jew
    November 2, 2018, 9:10 pm

    Dear sister, and i hope i don’t offend you by calling you sister. but as dylan sang, “and is our purpose not the same on this earth, to love and follow his direction.”
    on the day arafat died I happened to be in the old city of jerusalem and i don’t recall the circumstances, but i was sitting near a Jew from Africa, what I would call an ethiopian and he looked at me and my white skin and i looked at him and his dark skin and we both were kind of skeptical that we were both jews and we smiled at our shared skepticism.
    I grew up in winnipeg a town of half a million with 20,000 jews, a very specific situation. as a kid there were a pair of brothers from Morocco who were darker than the darkest ashkenazi jews, but ashkenazi jews came in all shades and i was one of the lighter skinned ones. my maternal grandmother, the grandparent i was closest to was quite dark skinned, but my coloring came from my father and was rather white. in the summers i would go to religious zionist camp and inevitably they would have a representative from israel on staff and a few summers it was a Yemenite Jew and one of the teachers at the Jewish school in winnipeg came from Israel and he was North African. It wasn’t until I had left winnipeg for chicago for two years and then found myself in queens new york that i met my first black jew. that was in high school. so i know if i am curious about your roots, i will be treated as if a black doctor on an airplane has to prove that she’s really a doctor. but in fact because i was raised in a primarily ashkenazi world and then lived in israel where it was half Mizrahi and half Ashkenazi, I am not that familiar with Jews of color. It is something new to me. And I suppose in your leftists circles you don’t have to deal with old people from the old school who tell you straight up that they would like to ask you, were both your parents jewish? Did you grow up going to synagogue or temple? did you have a bat mitzvah?

    as far as blacks in this country… well, first off the color green and the problem with people of color are quite intertwined. statistically Jews are better off financially than most other groups in this country, so the interests of rich jews and economically oppressed blacks do not overlap naturally, but only through ideology.

    The history of slavery is capitalism taken to its extreme and the problems of rich and poor are made slightly or sometimes much more barbed (as in barbed wire) because of the history of slavery and the mindset which accompanied slavery.

    These are facts.

    why you would think that yelling at white jews and tell ing them that you feel endangered every day is going to make friends with people, well, i guess you were only talking to ideologues like you who are offended by not being your friend, but to me, a stranger, I felt that you were being slightly obtuse. maybe you’ll have more to say in the future. maybe you are used to talking to anti zionists and they are used to listening to you. but as a stranger (and a zionist) I assume you will not wish to really talk to me, so the net effect is just you shouting at me. which is fine. but it is only a first step.

    • Paranam Kid
      Paranam Kid
      November 4, 2018, 1:26 pm

      @wondering jew: seems to me it is time you got to know your fellow Jews of colour a bit better. I could/should instill a bit more humility in you.

  8. Mooser
    Mooser
    November 4, 2018, 12:25 pm

    “Dear sister, and i hope i don’t offend you by calling you sister. but as dylan sang, “and is our purpose not the same on this earth, to love and follow his direction.” “WJ”

    A risk warning should accompany “WJ’s” comment as it poses a danger of provoking a dangerous Bezold–Jarisch reflex

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