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The tragedy of Marc Lamont Hill’s firing

Media Analysis
on 74 Comments

CNN’s firing of professor/commentator Marc Lamont Hill for giving a UN speech last week saying that Palestinians have a right to resist Israeli occupation to achieve the goal of a “free Palestine, from the river to the sea” is a deeply dispiriting moment for anyone who cares about human rights and an open American press. The firing followed by Hill’s apology for some of his comments illuminates dismal trends in American political culture: the triumph of Zionism, the press’s steadfast refusal to take on the Israel lobby’s influence in our politics, and the politicization of the Pittsburgh massacre to equate any harsh criticism of Israel with violent anti-Semitism.

These trends are all influential for the same reason that Hill’s words were influential: because the two state solution is over and everyone knows it even if they are denying it; and Zionism, a successful ideology for 100 years in answering the Jewish question in Europe and then cementing American support for Israel, is now in crisis. That’s the hopeful but also terrifying part of the Hill story. The two-state farce is coming to an end, and Zionism is in an intellectual shambles. The establishment and, yes, too, other sentient people are afraid of what will follow; and Marc Lamont Hill’s voice was snuffed like a candle for stating a perfectly desirable outcome, one state with equal rights for all.

We on the left tend to underestimate the triumph of Zionism, because it’s an ideology we have so little regard for (much as the media dismiss Trump voters as idiots) and because in reviewing the history these days, the left reduces Zionism to settler colonialism, an anachronism. What we miss is the enormous intellectual/political/moral commitment the west made to Zionism in the wake of the Holocaust. There was an excellent piece by Adam Shatz at the LRB lately about the French intellectual Jean-Paul Sartre’s neutrality on the Israel Palestine conflict, which justly maddened Palestinians in the 60s and 70s. “Neutrality in one of the last struggles of national liberation was a peculiar stance for the philosopher of commitment,” Shatz marvels. But “Sartre continued to see Israel through the prism of the Holocaust and European responsibility.”

“[N]o one in Sartre’s circle was looking after Palestinian interests,” Sartre biographer Yoav Di-Capua explains. Sartre’s partner Simone de Beauvoir was the lover of Claude Lanzmann, the filmmaker and committed Zionist.

Those social currents continue to be the dominant ones in the west. Zionism is regarded as the flawed but necessary answer to the extermination of European Jewry. And: the social construction of the elite is Zionist; no one is looking after Palestinian interests. There may be a day when Rashida Tlaib of Michigan and Rebecca Vilkomerson of Jewish Voice for Peace, supporters of nonviolent resistance in the form of BDS, are members in good standing of the ruling class, but that day is still far off. If Marc Lamont Hill wants any future in mainstream media, he has to apologize; and he did.

The pressure on Hill is part of a long history of black/progressive leaders who aspire to the mainstream being crushed for their espousal of pro-Palestinian views. Look what happened to Andrew Young or Keith Ellison, or to Jimmy Carter; and look what is happening to Ilhan Omar and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez now. People of color who have a natural affinity for the Palestinian liberation struggle are told that they must check those sentiments at the door of the Democratic National Committee.

The likely chair of House Foreign Affairs Eliot Engel promises an off-the-record AIPAC audience that he will “educate” the new progressive politicians about Israel. Jewish leaders and Democratic Party stalwarts openly crossed Obama on the Iran deal and paid no price for it; and the Democratic Party’s thinktank hosted Netanyahu in defiance of Obama so that it could land a major (Jewish Zionist) donor and so that “we’ll never be called anti-Semitic again.”

I thought that the discussion of the Israel lobby was opening 12 years ago when Walt and Mearsheimer published their revolutionary paper. And any reader of this site knows we’re optimistic and seize on positive trends. But the Hill firing reminds us of the power of the lobby in the media and the limited place for discussion of that power. The story has gotten precious little attention in the mainstream press, and CNN has gotten away with a no comment on its reasons. And it’s left to our site to remind readers that Wolf Blitzer once worked for AIPAC (and helped destroy an early effort by Jewish progressives to speak to the PLO) and that an executive at CNN’s parent company wrote frikkin speeches for Netanyahu against the Iran deal, and no one cared when we reported it. And meantime Comcast’s executive vice president runs fundraisers for the Israeli Defense Forces.

If you focus too much on the lobby, you’re an anti-Semite, and that is true more than ever in the wake of Pittsburgh. To even speak of the Zionist presence in the mainstream media is to arm white nationalists, it’s thought. CNN did a poll this week showing that anti-Semitism is on the rise in Europe, citing support for the claims that Jews have too much power in the media and business and in foreign policymaking too; and a New York Times editor promptly echoed the warning, and said that every Jew who can get out of France is getting out now (which is simply not true).

I always thought that thinkers would have to accept the anti-Semite label as the price of expressing certain ideas. The amazing Gideon Levy does that today in his column on Marc Lamont Hill. He challenges the CNN poll and says that smart people have a perfect right to conclude that: “The Jews and Israel have an incredible degree of influence in Western media. Now you can call me an anti-Semite, as well.”

But Levy lives in Israel, in the heart of the crisis of the end of the two-state solution. This is an existential question for him, and millions of others there, not a dinner table conversation; he has already put his body on the line by virtually supporting BDS, the only positive force in the politics of Israel and Palestine, in his recognition that we face huge choices in Palestine and the best answer is equal rights. American intellectuals are not willing to wear that badge to express their criticisms of Israel. It’s career death, there’s no upside. Again, the Democratic Party thinktank hosted Netanyahu, so “we will never be called anti-Semitic again.”

And Obama himself was given that label during the Iran deal negotiations, and was anguished by it, as his former aide Ben Rhodes tells us:

Even to acknowledge the fact that AIPAC was spending tens of millions to defeat the Iran deal was anti-Semitic. To observe that the same people who supported the war in Iraq also opposed the Iran deal was similarly off limits.

I have news. The Palestine question of our time has replaced the Jewish question of the early 20th century. That’s why we run this site; and that’s also the tragic element of the Hill debacle. The courageous professor was trying to move the discourse forward to the morally urgent question of Palestine. He was bearing witness to conditions he has seen for himself and providing an idealistic American answer to Netanyahu’s existing one state solution in Israel/Palestine, in which Jim Crow is the law of the land for half the population, and people of the wrong ethnicity living in a ghetto are slaughtered en masse at the fence for protesting their starvation, and the New York Times cheers on the shooters.

Few voices in the west care about Palestinian rights, and though that number is growing, Hill’s firing shows that the Jewish question is still foremost. There is only one context for this issue, the lack of safety for Jews in the west. Western governments and institutions made a historical commitment to that principle, not just through the force of the lobby, or of colonialism. Ending that commitment is going to be a long struggle.

Thanks to Scott Roth, Donald Johnson, Annie Robbins, Terry Weber, Allison Deger and Adam Horowitz. 

Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is senior editor of and founded the site in 2005-06.

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74 Responses

  1. Yasmine on December 2, 2018, 2:14 pm

    I’m not so pessimistic as this article.

    First, at the popular level, Western Europe abandoned their support for Zionism. A majority of those countries sympathize more with Palestinians, although at different levels, despite their earlier commitment due to the Holocaust. Their governments only support Israel to follow US dicatates.

    Support for Israel in the democratic party is plummeting and the lobby is clearly losing especially with young Americans despite campus censorship. Support is strong among evangelicals but they are not a majority obviously.

    On a gut level, I felt that Hill voicing the one-state solution (implicitly) and his firing is the beginning of the mainstreaming process, during which many fights will be had.

    • Misterioso on December 3, 2018, 9:22 am

      @Yasmine, et al

      Video, December 1/18

      “New York City protest 12/1/18 of CNN firing of its contributor Marc Lamont Hill. Hill had spoken at the U.N. on the International Day for Solidarity with the People of Palestine and enraged Jewish supremacists with a call for justice ‘from the river to the sea’. Rally organized by Palestinian Youth Movement, Existence is Resistance and Others. Nancy Mansour was the ‘MC’ of the event”

    • Maghlawatan on December 3, 2018, 10:09 pm

      I agree. Zionism has always worked by punishing heretics who question the faith but taking the wider view the ideology is dogshit. Zionism is a shonda for the goys.
      Things fall apart and Zionism isn’t even remotely sustainable. It is an odious belief system

  2. Spring Renouncer on December 2, 2018, 2:15 pm

    I don’t understand why he would apologize. It’s really disheartening. Does he think that a partial recantation will suddenly ingratiate him with those who tried to take his career down? There’s no chance of that. He’s just discrediting himself, and more importantly, discrediting the movement for Palestinian rights. If he can’t take the inevitable vicious pushback he shouldn’t have spoken out at the U.N.

    Hill wants the best of both worlds. He wants to enjoy success in the mainstream media industry and also win left wing cred for supporting Palestine. Doing both isn’t possible yet in America. This seems to be a tragically failed attempt at self aggrandizement. To be fair CNN and those who lobbied for his firing deserve far more blame than Hill, but his attitude since the firing hasn’t been useful.

    • ErikEast on December 3, 2018, 3:15 am

      I agree. Recant a la Goldstone is, in fact, a step backwards for the individual. Over here in the U.K. the Labour Party have been apologising when demanded to do so by pro-Israel organisations.

      • Marnie on December 3, 2018, 11:33 am

        Never apologize when you’ve done nothing wrong. Explain what you meant, again and again, but never apologize for it. It’s seen as a sign of weakness by these types because the zionist enterprise is a notch below a pack of ravenous hyenas; if they smell weakness (i.e., apologizing for doing absolutely nothing), they’ll go after you until there’s no meat on the bone. I’m disheartened by his apology, but believe it came from a feeling of necessity – his jewish ‘friends’ told him he was very bad and needed to say he was very sorry. He apologized, but it wasn’t like he was going down on AIPAC like so many before him have. Never, ever apologize to these [email protected]#ks – give it right back to them and don’t back down.

  3. JLewisDickerson on December 2, 2018, 2:45 pm

    RE: “These trends are all influential for the same reason that Hill’s words were influential: because the two state solution is over and everyone knows it even if they are denying it; and Zionism, a successful ideology for 100 years in answering the Jewish question in Europe and then cementing American support for Israel, is now in crisis.” ~ Weiss

    Peter Beinart on anti-Semitism in America and illiberalism in Israel | Ezra Klein Show

  4. scott9854958 on December 2, 2018, 3:46 pm

    Well, obviously, the Zionist movement is a white supremacist movement. No different than the KKK. The genius of the Zio lobby is to make it seem as if they are *under threat* from white supremacists, when they are in fact the white nationalists *themselves*. And not only are they the racist whites, they are a billion times more powerful than some Protestant torch carriers in Charlottesville. This is some serious 4-D chess here my friends. You actually have to adjust your mind and all of your assumptions to process it. Basic premise: whatever you’re guilty of, accuse others of doing. And be relentless. The end.

  5. Philip Munger on December 2, 2018, 4:19 pm

    I pulled away from active blogging and frequent commenting at many progressive blogs back around 2012, because of community responsibilities that I felt it best not to compromise through liberal activism. Now that I’ve left those responsibilities (music director and conductor of the Anchorage Civic Orchestra), I’m becoming more active in environmental and social justice blogging.

    The case of Prof. Hill’s termination by CNN disturbed me enough by yesterday to write my first Daily Kos diary since 2013:

    I was surprised to learn that linking to Mondoweiss is expressly forbidden there. Commenters at my diary referred to this vibrant web site as “prohibited.”

    Some of the comments about Mondoweiss:

    ° Has mondoweiss been rehabilitated or is it still forbidden to link to that site here?

    ° All things considered, it’s probably better if you can find another less controversial source. I’m not absolutely sure it was forbidden, but it’s certainly a case of feelings running high. Anything I/P is touchy, but some things seem to provide both tinder and sparks.

    ° If you Search for mondoweiss in past DK comments, here are some of what you will find:
    Mondoweiss is a prohibited link on dKos. Delete this crap.

    ° I’m wondering if I should hide rate this diary. I googled mondoweiss + hate site and this item seems to match the pattern.

    …..and so on.

    There were very few comments supportive of Dr. Hill. Some seemed to feel anyone who expresses solidarity with him is outside the fold or worse.

    I suspect that many Kossaks are unwilling to endure the vitriol they might get from posting articles that are supportive of Palestinian aspirations.

    • Philip Munger on December 2, 2018, 4:26 pm

      It appears commenting has been disabled at the diary I posted at Daily Kos. I’m unable to add comments or respond to any.

      when I went to the DK main page, there’s an admin message for me:

      A message has been issued from site admin at Sun Dec 02 2018 11:37:17 GMT-0900 (AKST):

      As noted in numerous comments to your post, linking to material published at Mondoweiss has been prohibited here since 2011 on account of the prevalence of anti-Semitic rhetoric in posts and comments there. Link to less problematic sources in the future.
      I acknowledge receipt of this message:

      (Posting is not allowed until the message is acknowledged.)

      I haven’t acknowledged the message yet. Any suggestions?

      • annie on December 2, 2018, 6:18 pm

        dkos is not a good site to discuss anything about i/p that might be deemed controversial to the dnc or cap (center for american progress). other topics maybe but not i/p. even after hillary won the nomination one could get banned for bernie discussions. it’s all about electing dems, their way. the site his heavily monitored by zionist interests. for the most part they pretty much banned everyone advocating for palestine back in the day.

    • annie on December 2, 2018, 4:30 pm

      philip, there was a sustained effort by a cadre of pro israel zionist bloggers to have mondoweiss banned from dkos. phil responded to it here:

      • Philip Munger on December 2, 2018, 4:36 pm

        Thanks, annie. I missed that back then.

        I acknowledged reading their message about what DK’s admin calls “Mondofront.” Then I posted this:

        I acknowledged that I understand DK views Mondoweiss as some sort of hate site. I disagree, but…..

        The two-state solution is dead. Dead. DEAD. Any Israeli politician acknowledges that when speaking frankly and honestly. Commenters here who recite the “peace processing” mantras are feeding themselves the same kind of food Trump supporters gobble down.

      • MHughes976 on December 2, 2018, 5:33 pm

        When I travel on the UK railway system, using the company WiFi, I often find that the text of MW is covered up in part by splurges expressing some sort of disapproval.

      • ckg on December 3, 2018, 10:05 am

        The two-state solution is indeed dead, but politicians conveniently keep it animated like Norman Bates’ mother. Nancy Pelosi mentioned the two state solution this week in an address to Israeli-Americans. She was surprised when the audience jeered her.

      • annie on December 3, 2018, 4:34 pm

        thanks philip, yeah i read your comments the other day. the thread very much reflects what i remember about dkos comment sections relating to i/p, they just become long threads discussing what people are allowed to say. complete wastes of time that do not even go near the actual topic discussed in the diaries.

        ckg, thanks for the link. something else mentioned in that article i think is rare:

        Both Pelosi and Schumer agreed these are worrisome times for the U.S.-Israeli alliance, threatened by what they described as a rise in anti-Semitism combining with a general lack of awareness of how the relationship between the two countries benefits America.

        maybe americans are beginning to wonder what is it we get for those billions we keep giving to israel.

      • just on December 3, 2018, 6:58 pm

        Thanks, ckg. I think you are referring to this gathering:

        Schumer, Pelosi, and Pence were all feted at the fetid “confab”… here’s more:

        “Pelosi Emphasizes pro-Israel Leadership in Next House at Adelson-backed Confab …

        Nancy Pelosi, the Democrat who likely will be Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, listed pro-Israel lawmakers she plans to name to key committee positions and said her party remained fundamentally pro-Israel.

        “We have people very well paced to share our values,” Pelosi, D-Calif., said, addressing the conclusion Sunday of the annual Israeli-American Council conference, after listing planned assignments.

        Pelosi said she would name Rep. Nita Lowey, D-N.Y., to chair the Appropriations Committee; Eliot Engel, D-N.Y., to chair the Foreign Affairs Committee; Ted Deutch, D-Fla., to chair the Middle East subcommittee; Adam Schiff, D-Calif., to chair the Intelligence Committee; Alcee Hastings, D-Fla., to chair the human rights-monitoring Helsinki Committee; Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., to a key Appropriations Committee position; and Lois Frankel, D-Fla., to a key Foreign Affairs Committee position.

        All have longstanding pro-Israel records and all but Hastings are Jewish.

        Pelosi, appearing together with Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., the minority leader in the Senate, were pushing back against the perception that Democrats have drifted away from Israel. Interviewing them was Haim Saban, the Israeli-American entertainment mogul who with casino magnate Sheldon Adelson are major backers of the IAC. Saban is also a major backer of Democratic politicians, and Adelson is seen as a Republican king-maker.

        Pelosi urged those attending not to pay “attention to a few people who may want to go their own way,” apparently referring to newly elected Congress members such as Rashida Tlaib of Michigan and Ilhan Omar of Minnesota who have been sharply critical of Israel. …”

        Here’s the thing~ the US gives billions to Israel and then they and an entire panoply of Zionist organizations pay Congress and others to do its bidding… so why are they ‘allies’ of the US and why are lawmakers allowed to hold the American taxpayers hostage???

        Here’s something else:

        “Rashida Tlaib to Head Congressional Delegation to West Bank, Endorses BDS

        The Intercept said Tlaib was “rejecting [the] Israel lobby’s influence over Congress” echoing and that her plan was a “rebuke of a decades-old tradition for newly elected members: a junket to Israel sponsored by the education arm” of AIPAC. She has no plans to meet with any Israeli or Palestinian officials, said the report.

        “I want us to see that segregation and how that has really harmed us being able to achieve real peace in that region,” The Intercept quoted Tlaib as saying . “I don’t think AIPAC provides a real, fair lens into this issue. It’s one-sided. … [They] have these lavish trips to Israel, but they don’t show the side that I know is real, which is what’s happening to my grandmother and what’s happening to my family there.”

        According to the Intercept, AIPAC’s education arm has spent $12.9 million on trips to Israel for legislators and staffers over the past decade, trips that the publication called “among the lesser-known traditions for freshman members of Congress.”

        Tlaib told The Intercept that she personally supports the movement to boycott Israel, confirming speculation that emerged when she called on the United States to cut military aid to the country.

        Before Tlaib won her primary in August, her campaign represented her as supporting a two-state solution and aid to Israel.

        Since her primary victory, she has explicitly endorsed a one-state solution and called for an end to aid to Israel, prompting the pro-two-state-solution lobby group J Street to officially withdraw its support for her.

        On the eve of the primary, Steve Tobocman, a senior adviser to Tlaib, told Haaretz that she supported a two-state solution. But in a post-victory interview, asked whether she supported a one-state or two-state solution, her response was clear: “One state. It has to be one state. Separate but equal does not work. I’m only 42-years old but my teachers were of that generation that marched with Martin Luther King. This whole idea of a two-state solution, it doesn’t work.”

        Representative-elect Ilhan Omar has also come out in support of boycotting Israel in remarks after her election, leaving many of her future constituents confused given that she said in August that the boycott movement was “not helpful in getting that two-state solution.” She has also drawn criticism for calling Israel an “apartheid regime” that had “hypnotized the world” to ignore its “evil” policies.

        In November, Tlaib and Omar became the first two Muslim women to be elected to Congress.”

        Wonder who will show up… I hope that Marc Lamont Hill will be there.

  6. JWalters on December 2, 2018, 6:28 pm

    “the press’s steadfast refusal to take on the Israel lobby’s influence in our politics”

    The Israel Lobby is intentionally sabotaging our politics and our democracy with deeply funded, highly organized, secretive operations. This reality is clearly documented in the suppressed Al Jazeera documentary The Lobby.

    Huge amounts of money are used to threaten and bribe candidates and members of Congress.

    Huge amounts of money have been used to buy and control major news outlets.

    Huge amounts of money have been used to establish a plethora of front groups and fake “grass roots” support.

    Through these controlled organizations, the Lobby intentionally lies to the public (including the general Jewish community).

    The Lobby intentionally avoids normal debates with political opponents, which would put their thoroughly false narrative beside the actual facts, which would reveal their whole swindle.

    Instead, the Lobby fabricates demonstrations of loud indignation, repeating false claims with little to no evidence. Fake news is generated to support these bursts of highly publicized indignation.

    The Lobby consistently strives to “discredit the messenger” rather than debate the message, using well-funded systems of character assassination, aimed at destroying careers and personal lives. The accusation of anti-Semitism is a key tactic, but sexual smears and threats of harm are also used.

    Every member of Congress and the mainstream media who takes Zionist money and goes along with Lobby’s deeply immoral, anti-justice, anti-spiritual program will one day heavily regret their descent into that dark pit. A reckoning is coming. The truth will set us free.

    • lonely rico on December 4, 2018, 9:37 am

      > JWalters

      Every member of Congress and the mainstream media who takes Zionist money and goes along with Lobby’s deeply immoral, anti-justice, anti-spiritual program will one day heavily regret their descent into that dark pit. A reckoning is coming. The truth will set us free.

      An If Americans Knew report on media failure to tell Americans about the $38 billion to Israel aid package was featured on a banner in Times Square during Friday morning rush hour and has been picked up by more than 100 news sites around the country!

      Hats off to truth-teller Alison Weir.

      • JWalters on December 5, 2018, 5:02 am

        Thanks for that great news! Another 100 steps forward.

  7. Ottawa observer on December 2, 2018, 9:41 pm

    The widely used slogan “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” is Unfortunately ambiguous. It can be misinterpreted, wilfully or naively, as a call to rid all Palestine of Jews.
    I dont think that is what Lamont Hill meant, and he has apparently added a clarification.
    A slightly tweaked slogan, like “From the river to the sea PALESTINIANS will be free” is clearer and leaves less of a target for Zionists to attack.

    • echinococcus on December 3, 2018, 4:24 am


      It can be misinterpreted, wilfully or naively, as a call to rid all Palestine of Jews.

      Why “mis”interpreted? What’s wrong with calling to get rid of the invader, pray tell? [Even though that was not what Lamont thinks.] And yes, the Zionist invaders are overwhelmingly “Jewish” by their own definition and rules, and they are all invaders. We are not talking about Palestinians of the Jewish persuasion here, those who used to live in Palestine before the Zionist intention to invade and subvert was officially announced in 1894. Lamont didn’t say anything about “Jews”, by the way. It’s your way of characterizing primarily the invading Zionist and it tells us a lot about you, not Lamont.

      Who and if, of the invaders and their offspring, get to stay in Palestine as a humanitarian gesture, is not for you or me to define, but for the collective Palestinian people, period.

    • MHughes976 on December 3, 2018, 5:27 am

      ‘Palestinians’ makes a much better rhythm but the word will not disarm those committed to the principle of hostile reading – ‘you mean Palestinians will be free of Jews, you beast’.

    • eljay on December 3, 2018, 8:56 am

      || Ottawa observer: The widely used slogan “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” is Unfortunately ambiguous. It can be misinterpreted, wilfully or naively, as a call to rid all Palestine of Jews. … ||

      I agree.

      || … A slightly tweaked slogan, like “From the river to the sea PALESTINIANS will be free” is clearer and leaves less of a target for Zionists to attack. ||

      IMO that’s not different enough: “Palestinians are free” says nothing about the state of Jews in the region.

      Something like this might be better…
      All the people of Israel and Palestine – from the river to the sea – are entitled to justice, equality and respect for human rights.
      …but even then it won’t stop Zionists from screaming “anti-Semitism” and “Jew hatred” because when it comes to I-P and Jewish / “Jewish State” supremacism morality is immoral and good is evil.

      • Marnie on December 4, 2018, 12:22 am

        Maybe the time for slogans is past and only clear thoughts, expressions and discussions can lead the way. There will be no shiny happy slogan that won’t set zionists’ teeth on edge. They can be as obtuse or as in your face as they want of course; there is no condemnation of phrases like ‘jewish state’, ‘nation-state of the jewish people’ or ‘historical homeland of the jewish people’ which must be uttered thousands of times a day by u.s. politicians and other syncophants as part of their continued fealty to apartheid and racism. We’re all grown ups. And we can’t keep apologizing for telling the truth. Has anyone heard one politician or journalist or any ‘famous’ type person apologize for the demonization of palestinians; or the claim they don’t exist; where’s their king; language, culture, etc.? Of course not, because they don’t. They attack anti-zionists with the ferocity of a disturbed hornet’s nest and will continue until they get their apology, and then continue after they’ve gotten their apology to let that person know who they’re fucking with. When you speak the truth, you never apologize.

      • eljay on December 4, 2018, 8:17 pm

        || Marnie: … There will be no shiny happy slogan that won’t set zionists’ teeth on edge. … ||

        Teeth on edge, screaming “anti-Semitism!” and “Jew hatred!” So true. I’m amazed by how utterly repulsed are Zionists by:
        – truth; and
        – morality.

  8. oldgeezer on December 2, 2018, 10:49 pm

    ” It can be misinterpreted, wilfully or naively, as a call to rid all Palestine of Jews.”

    While I can accept I could be wrong I can’t agree that it can be merely naively interpreted that way.

    It is intentional and disingenuous in my opinion.

    The plain simple facts is that Jewish people have always lived in the area known as Palestine. Therefore the only logical conclusion is that a free Palestine would also include Jews.

    Some Jewish people are indigenous to the area.

    That some Jewish people lived there or are indigenous does not translate into a right for all Jewish people to live there.

    That some Jewish people are indigenous does not mean all are.

    That some/many/all European Jews can trace some dna to the Middle East is irrelevant. That does not make them indigenous. The Irish can trace their roots to the Middle East 3,000 years ago.

    We would all be rolling on the floor if the Irish laid claim to the Middle East. We should be treating European Jewish claims with the same derision.

    • CigarGod on December 3, 2018, 10:23 am

      From the river to the sea, Palestinian and Jew shall be free of Zionists.

      • MHughes976 on December 3, 2018, 12:05 pm

        Something that would be impeccably anti-racist and also a bit catchy would be nice. But, like a good man, not easy to find.

  9. Emet on December 3, 2018, 1:29 am

    For the life of me I do not understand why Blacks support Arab aspirations. It boggles the mind. This is partially explained by the percentage of Blacks with negative feelings towards Jews, which is higher than in any other group in the US. Sad, but true, especially after how much Jews have assisted Black causes over many years. And some Jews will never learn. The same animosity Blacks have towards Jews, so Arabs have, or will have, toward other types of Jews currently supporting Palestinian Arabs.
    Back to the Arab/Black web, the way that Arabs have treated Blacks has been abominable, from rounding up slaves and shipping them of by the boatload, to local slave trading. The word in Arabic for slave is “black man” (Abed).

    • Misterioso on December 3, 2018, 11:11 am


      Re Zionist “Israeli” Jews and what you term “Blacks.”
      “The plight of Ethiopian Jews in Israel”
      By Prof Yossi Mekelberg Chatham House – 25 May 2015
      “Even in death, Ethiopian Jews face racism from other Jews” Middle East Monitor, December 28, 2010.
      Excerpt: “An Israeli newspaper has claimed that the racism prevalent between Israeli Jews extends to Ethiopian Jews even after their death. According to Ma’ariv, graves in a Jewish cemetery are separated according to the colour of the corpses; a fence has been built between the graves of Ethiopian Jews and the others in the graveyard.”

      Haaretz, January 27, 2013 – “Israel admits Ethiopian women were given birth control shots.”
      EXCERPTS: “A government official has for the first time acknowledged the practice of injecting women of Ethiopian origin with the long-acting contraceptive Depo-Provera.”
      “The women’s testimony could help explain the almost 50-percent decline over the past 10 years in the birth rate of Israel’s Ethiopian community.”

      Council for the National Interest – Sept. 30, 2013
      “Israel Gave Birth Control to Ethiopian Immigrants Without Their Consent.”
      “In January 2013, Israel acknowledged that medical authorities have been giving Ethiopian immigrants long-term birth-control injections, often without their knowledge or consent. The Israeli government had previously denied the charges, which were first brought to light by investigative reporter Gal Gabbay in a December 8, 2012, broadcast of Israeli Educational Television’s news program, Vacuum.”

      “Gabbay interviewed over thirty women from Ethiopia in an attempt to discover why birth rates in the immigrant community were so low. Israeli medical authorities had been injecting women of Ethiopian origin with a drug alleged to be Depo-Provera, a highly effective and long-lasting form of contraception. In some cases, the drugs were reportedly administered to women waiting in transit camps for permission to immigrate to Israel.

      Writing for the Electronic Intifada, Ali Abunimah makes the case that, ‘if the allegations are proven, this practice may fit the legal definition of genocide.’”

      Nearly 100,000 Ethiopian Jews have moved to Israel under the Law of Return since the 1980s, but some rabbis have questioned their Jewishness. In May 2012, Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu ignited controversy when he warned that illegal immigrants from Africa “threaten our existence as a Jewish and democratic state.”

      Alistair Dawber, “Israel Gave Birth Control to Ethiopian Jews without Their Consent,” The Independent, January 27, 2013,

      Ali Abunimah, “Did Israel Violate the Genocide Convention by Forcing Contraceptives on Ethiopian Women?” Electronic Intifada, January 28, 2013,

      Beth Brogan, “Israel Admits Forced Birth Control For Ethiopian Immigrants,” Common Dreams, January 29, 2013,

      Jan 19, 2018 – Haaretz
      Opinion: “In Israel, Growing Fascism and a Racism Akin to Early Nazism” by Zeev Sternhell.
      “I frequently ask myself how a historian in 50 or 100 years will interpret our period. When, he will ask, did people in Israel start to realize that the state that was established in the War of Independence, on the ruins of European Jewry and at the cost of the blood of combatants some of whom were Holocaust survivors, had devolved into a true monstrosity for its non-Jewish inhabitants. When did some Israelis understand that their cruelty and ability to bully others, Palestinians or Africans, began eroding the moral legitimacy of their existence as a sovereign entity?”

    • Keith on December 3, 2018, 2:35 pm

      EMET- ” This is partially explained by the percentage of Blacks with negative feelings towards Jews, which is higher than in any other group in the US.”

      A link to your source would be nice.

      • John O on December 3, 2018, 3:14 pm


        It probably would not be at all nice. Infowars, Breitbart, KKK homepage spring to mind.

      • Mooser on December 3, 2018, 3:21 pm

        “A link to your source would be nice.”

        Oh, no doubt “Emet” was influenced by the “seminal essay” from Norman Podhoretz

    • zaid on December 3, 2018, 4:28 pm

      “The word in Arabic for slave is ” blackman” (Abed).”.

      No it is not. Black in Arabic is ” aswad” or “sudan”.
      Stop making stuff up.

      “There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor for a non-Arab over an Arab. Neither is the white superior over the black, nor is the black superior over the white — except by piety.” Muhammad

      • RoHa on December 3, 2018, 5:53 pm

        “Stop making stuff up.”

        But how can poor Emet comment at all if he follows that restriction?

      • Emet on December 4, 2018, 12:33 am

        The fact is that in recent times Arabs are trying to “smooth” over their historic and long use and abuse of Black slaves. And the the real tragedy of Marc Lamont Hill’s firing is that Marc does not realize that he, as a Black man, has more in common with the Jewish struggle in “Palestine” than the Arab one.

      • zaid on December 4, 2018, 5:37 pm

        Abed or abeed means slave .you can call a black or a white man a slave . The name abd-allah means slave of allah and it is one of the most used names among arabs. So does abd-alrahman or abd-alaziz…etc
        So stop making stuff up.

        The arab slave trade existed but it was colour blind and kt was focused more on whites than blacks.

        Jews had their role in the atlantic slave trade specially Dutch jews and its victims were execlusively black.

        Most black people in the world are muslims .
        Islam had a universal l message and it encouraged people to look beyond skin colour 1400 year ago when your ancestors were still in Khazaria Emet.

      • Emet on December 5, 2018, 10:33 am

        Zaid, maybe you can explain why Arabs have a word for Black slaves and another word for “other” slaves?

      • gamal on December 5, 2018, 12:43 pm

        “why Arabs have a word for Black”

        like Abu al Misk Kafur or Malik Kafur ( taj ad din izz al dawla) in Delhi, there is no chattel slavery in the middle east, but yeah grrr those Arabs grrr, not that it matters, but what else can you discuss but racist irrelevances.

      • zaid on December 6, 2018, 3:59 pm

        “Zaid, maybe you can explain why Arabs have a word for Black slaves and another word for “other” slaves?”

        What word!

        you are still making stuff up.

      • gamal on December 6, 2018, 5:18 pm

        “Neither is the white superior”

        and of course slaves ruled much of the Muslim world for much of its history, in Egypt especially and they defeated the Mongols and Crusaders, were active social reformers and economic innovators and energetic builders, but still slaves, as they say it’s complicated and the sons of slaves ruled as well, plantation slavery was rare, it’s like it has its own secret unknown Islamohistory.

        but then life is just talking points these days

        Just inter alia Islam regulated the existing institution of slavery and placed a very high value to manumission, in some instances, such as if a slave woman breastfeeds her mistress’ baby she is automatically manumitted and must be treated as if she was never enslaved, the institution was more similar to indenture than slavery as practised in Greece, Rome and the good old US of A, a slave had a right to food of equal quality and quantity as the Masters household, sufficient clothing and time to earn money on his her own account and could force self manumission by buying themselves…find out all sorts of shit if you study.

        and the Muslim states, as a result of the scholars reading of the Quran, put aside money specifically for the manumission of slaves, but yes Islam and Arabs grrr.

        racism is so so boring, it’s really not good for you.

    • Marnie on December 4, 2018, 12:38 am

      For the life of me I do not understand why you might think anyone would believe anything by @Emet. What have jews have done for ‘blacks’ emek? I’ve heard this fable for years and have seen no proof in the claim so would appreciate to know exactly how long ‘black’ people have to continue to kiss jewish asses for ‘what jews have done’ for them. Explanation please! Some people believe the only interest jews have had in ‘blacks’ was based on self-interest; to keep an eye on ‘black’ folks and try to dominate their political views. ‘Black’ folks have done the dying, the starving, the suffering. Jews, who were never put into chains and onto ships will never come close to experiencing the hardship that ‘blacks’ know to this day.

      Your post is full of lies, as per usual. But at least you can show your masters how hard you’re working for the money because your post was published on MW – take that you antisemites!!! It’s not even that though, is it? It’s all about power, land and money.

      Netanyahu talks the talk, but does he really care about anti-Semitism ……/netanyahu-talks-the-talk-but-does-he-really-care-a

      • annie on December 4, 2018, 1:10 am

        your link is broken marnie, but here’s a working link w/podcast “Podcast: Netanyahu Talks the Talk, but Does He Really Care About anti-Semitism?”

      • Marnie on December 4, 2018, 4:11 am

        Thank you Annie.

      • Emet on December 4, 2018, 3:51 pm

        Marnie, did you just happen to “forget” about how Jews suffered during WWII? When Jews marched with Martin Luther King in 1963, do you know how many years this occurred after the suffering that Jews went through, suffering that Blacks in the US knew nothing of. Or are you still comparing the two? You probably are and you are most likely one of those who doubts how many Jews were killed by the Nazis. So I’ll do the math for you Marnie. Jews marched with MLK just 18 years after the Holocaust. You should be ashamed of what you have just written.

      • Marnie on December 5, 2018, 12:22 am

        I should ‘be ashamed’?

        ‘Jews marched with MLK’. A few did, as did a few priests and pastors. What’s your point?

    • Marnie on December 4, 2018, 11:48 am

      Still gnawing on that bone emet? You really are ridiculous. What do israeli jews have in common with Professor Hill exactly? No emet, he clearly allies himself with the people who are struggling and suffering, and not the ones causing it.

      • Marnie on December 5, 2018, 12:51 am

        The well-orchestrated vilification and attempted silencing of Professor Hill is something everyone should be ashamed of, but it is yet more proof just how desperate the zionist machine is to keep the status quo. There are the usual squawkers (the hysterical daniel shapiro for one) who are given carte blanch wrt to time on air to spread their antisemitic propaganda. The fact that anyone and everyone who sounds sympathetic wrt palestinians is ground to dust speaks volumes about the shaky foundation zionism and the ‘state of israel’ was built upon. If something is good, righteous and moral, it should be able to stand on those merits and not resort to murder and extortion – only criminal enterprises operate that way and the zionist state is exactly that, a criminal enterprise.

    • Mooser on December 4, 2018, 6:22 pm

      Hard for me to imagine there’s any conflict between Jews and Blacks, when “Emet” reaches out to them so eloquently and in terms of such equality and humanity.

      • eljay on December 4, 2018, 7:59 pm

        || Mooser: Hard for me to imagine there’s any conflict between Jews and Blacks, when “Emet” reaches out to them so eloquently and in terms of such equality and humanity. ||

        Maybe Emet does “Black outreach” the same way hophmi does “Muslim outreach”.

  10. Eva Smagacz on December 3, 2018, 2:49 am


    I know it is dispiriting. I know it’s a hard graft. But the war of ideas is happening in the comment section in the “liberal “press.

    This is why anything to do with Israel and Palestine is increasingly not allowing comments.

    But the genie is out of the bottle. People are beginning to know. They are not influencers, they are not pundits on the liberal media, but it is happening.

    No, this does not mean liberation of Palestinians. Yet. But it means that israel is shown for what it is. 184/199

    And they threw everything, everything that the head of Jeremy Corbyn and he still standing. Things are changing.

  11. wondering jew on December 3, 2018, 5:54 am

    Due to the state of events til today advocacy of a single state seems logical: there is in effect a single state: merely change it from an unfair single state, where only some vote to a single state where all vote: voila! From subjugation to democracy in one small step. Yet, because of predominant attitudes in both national communities of a proprietary nature: both Palestinians and Israeli Jews view the land as all theirs, the establishment of this ideal state will not (most likely outcome) lead to harmony, but to conflict and oppression. Practicality should intervene and alert those concerned that partition is the most workable solution and the one state though near is a mirage whose reality will undo current inequality only to land us (them) in a pile of conflict. As a rhetorical device it is useful, as a real goal it is not.
    Because of this realization associating “river to the sea” rhetoric with Hamas rather than utopia is not an unrealistic association, merely seeing the situation for what it is, rather than what one wishes for.

    • eljay on December 3, 2018, 9:52 am

      || wondering jew: … because of predominant attitudes in both national communities of a proprietary nature: both Palestinians and Israeli Jews view the land as all theirs … ||

      1. It’s not “Israeli Jews” who view all of Palestine as their own – it’s Zionist Jews throughout the world who view it as their own.

      2. The only “national communities” that should matter in I-P are I(sraelis) and P(alestinians). Nice of you to wipe non-Jewish Israelis off the map.

    • Misterioso on December 3, 2018, 11:39 am

      @wondering Jew

      “… both Palestinians and Israeli Jews view the land as all theirs”

      However, hard won international law (e.g., the UN Charter, The Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Fourth Geneva Convention) does not support the Zionist contention that “the land is all theirs” i.e., Jews of foreign origin. Indeed, it has repeatedly and correctly declared that at least 22% of the lands between the River and the Sea, i.e., historic Palestine, comprised of currently Zionist occupied East Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip belong to the Palestinians, the indigenous inhabitants. (Yes, under international law, the Gaza Strip is still illegally occupied, i.e., in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention, “Collective Punishment.”)

      To wit:
      Security Council Resolution 446 (22 March 1979) “[Affirms] once more that the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 12 August 1949 is applicable to the Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem,
      “1. Determines that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East;..”

      Security Council Resolution 465 (1 March 1980) “determines that all measures taken by Israel to change the physical character, demographic composition, institutional structure or status of the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem, or any part thereof, have no legal validity…”

      Israel’s 1980 annexation of East Jerusalem was rejected by the UN Security Council in Resolution 476 (June 30, 1980): “all legislative and administrative measures and actions taken by Israel, the Occupying Power, which purport to alter the character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem have no legal validity and constitute a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.”

      In accordance with the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention, binding on all UN members and ratified by “Israel,” and further underscoring the illegality of the settlements, Part 2, Article 8, section B, paragraph viii of the Rome Statute of the International Court (1998) defines “the transfer directly or indirectly by the Occupying power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies ” as a War Crime, indictable by the International Criminal Court.

      On 24 February 2004, the U.S. State Department reaffirmed its earlier position in a report titled Israel and the Occupied Territories, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices: “Israel occupied the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights after the 1967 War…. The international community does not recognize Israel’s sovereignty over any part of the occupied territories.”

      In its 2004 ruling, the International Court of Justice unanimously ruled that “No territorial acquisition resulting from the threat or use of force shall be recognized as legal.” The World Court denoted this principle a “corollary” of the U.N. Charter and as such “customary international law” and a “customary rule” binding on all member States of the United Nations.

      UN Security Council Resolution 2334, December 23, 2016: “Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,
      “Reaffirming the obligation of Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, and recalling the advisory opinion rendered on 9 July 2004 by the International Court of Justice,
      “Condemning all measures aimed at altering the demographic composition, character and status of the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, including, inter alia, the construction and expansion of settlements, transfer of Israeli settlers, confiscation of land, demolition of homes and displacement of Palestinian civilians, in violation of international humanitarian law and relevant resolutions,….”

      “In international law, East Jerusalem is occupied territory, as are the parts of the West Bank that Israel unilaterally annexed to its district of Jerusalem. The Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 and the Hague Regulations of 1907 forbid occupying powers to alter the lifeways of civilians who are occupied, and forbid the settling of people from the occupiers’ country in the occupied territory. Israel’s expulsion of Palestinians from their homes in East Jerusalem, its usurpation of Palestinian property there, and its settling of Israelis on Palestinian land are all gross violations of international law. Israeli claims that they are not occupying Palestinians because the Palestinians have no state are cruel and tautological. Israeli claims that they are building on empty territory are laughable. My back yard is empty, but that does not give Netanyahu the right to put up an apartment complex on it.” (Juan Cole,

      BTW, there is no special provision in international law that enables the entity known as “Israel’ to violate it with impunity.

    • CigarGod on December 3, 2018, 11:50 am

      There is so much wrong with your comment, I’ll just call the whole thing a “Hemp man” logical phallacy.

  12. Misterioso on December 3, 2018, 9:34 am

    For the record:


    “‘Intimidation Will Not Stop Us in Our Fight — We Stand with Marc Lamont Hill'” – Palestinian Youth Movement and the SWANA Alliance, Nov. 30/18

    EXCERPT: “As Palestinian, Arab and SWANA youth, we are writing in support of Marc Lamont Hill and his righteous support of the Palestinian struggle for liberation and self-determination at the United Nations (UN) on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 for the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People. The Zionist backlash he is facing is slanderous and a continuation of selective suppression of speech. Among the actions taken against Marc has been the CNN’s cowardly response, stating that he is ‘no longer under contract’ with the news organization. We wholeheartedly condemn any and all intimidation to silence Marc, which reflects the United States history of targeting people of color, specifically Black folks, for their political activism.

    “CNN claims to champion ‘facts first,’ but turns away from honest reporting on Palestine. This comes as no surprise, as CNN repeatedly demonizes and spews racist rhetoric about Palestinians, even while they are being massacred, displaced, and incarcerated by the settler-colonial entity, Israel. We encourage any and all other institutions and organizations that employ Marc or use his labor to refrain from taking the same unjust actions.

    “We commend Marc Lamont Hill for taking a courageous position at the UN Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People’s. Recognizing that the Zionist settler-colonial state cannot be both a democratic state for all of its residents and also a Jewish ethno-state as the political ideology of Zionism necessitates, Marc called for a free Palestine, from the river to the sea. Marc has participated in and organized several delegations to Palestine with revolutionary leaders of Black liberation including Dream Defenders and BYP 100, and has been working in solidarity with the Palestinian community for several years. We honor his commitment to racial justice and liberation and commit to showing up for him.”


    “CNN Fired Marc Lamont Hill For Saying Palestinians Deserve Equal Rights” by Yousef Munayyer, Huffington Post, Nov. 29/18

    EXCERPT: “Marc Lamont Hill, a professor at Temple University and a fierce advocate for equality, was perhaps the strongest, most articulate and most passionate voice against racism and bigotry among CNN’s regular contributors. Today, CNN fired him because he believes Palestinians, too, fit into a vision where all people deserve equal rights. For CNN, that was just too much.

    “Marc was targeted by what can only be described as an organized campaign to silence his principled and consistent advocacy against racism and for the equal treatment of all people, including Palestinians. Wednesday, as part of a Special Meeting of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People, in observance of the United Nations International Day of Solidarity With the Palestinian People at U.N. headquarters in New York, Marc was invited as a member of civil society to provide a statement to the forum. He did so having just returned from the Palestinian territories, and he made clear that his experience as a black American and the history of struggle against slavery and Jim Crow in the United States inform his solidarity with the Palestinian people.

    “In his remarks, Marc outlined the need to work for the human rights of Palestinians in line with the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights and that this includes the rights of Palestinian refugees and Palestinians living under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza, as well as Palestinian citizens of Israel who face routine discrimination. The geography where this discrimination and mistreatment takes place is in the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean sea. This includes Israel and the West Bank and Gaza. Yet critics jumped on Marc’s use of the phrase ‘from the river to the sea’ to portray him as some sort of radical eliminationist ― someone who believes that Israel should be violently destroyed or that Jews should be forcibly expelled ― when anyone who heard his statement or knows his advocacy can tell you he is anything but.

    “The demand that Palestinians have equal rights from the river to the sea is not radical or racist or bigoted. Rather, anything short of that would be.”


    “CNN: ‘Facts first,’ just not on Israel” by Mariam Barghouti, Al Jazeera, Dec. 2/18

    “CNN firing commentator Marc Lamont Hill exposes yet another layer of mainstream media’s bias and lack of objectivity.”

    “Last week, the US mainstream media demonstrated once again that it has a Palestine problem. CNN suspended the contract of commentator and Temple University Professor Marc Lamont Hill, after he gave a speech at the United Nations in which he criticized the Israeli occupation and the abuse of Palestinian rights.

    “Hill based his speech very much on facts. He cited Israeli laws that discriminate against Palestinians; the use of arbitrary violence by the Israeli security apparatus; the use of torture against Palestinian detainees; the denial of due process to Palestinians by Israeli courts; the restriction on movement in the occupied territories, etc. – all violations that have been well-documented and condemned by the UN and a myriad of human rights organisations.

    “Yet CNN, which last year adopted a new slogan – ‘Facts first’ – did not seem to agree with these facts. After pro-Israel organisations like the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) condemned the speech, the TV station was quick to sever its ties with Hill.

    “While CNN did not announce why it chose to do so, it is clear to many of us it caved in to pressure from pro-Israel groups. Hill was accused of being anti-Semitic for using the phrase ‘free Palestine from the river to the sea’, which supposedly is a ‘Hamas slogan’ and a call for the destruction of Israel. Well, it is neither.

    “Throwing accusations of anti-Semitism at people criticizing Israel and supporting the Palestinian right to self-determination is a convenient tool of the Zionist lobby. But calling for the freedom of Palestinians and for the recognition of their rights is not anti-Semitic; it is pro-Palestinian.”

    • maddave on December 3, 2018, 12:41 pm

      Marc Hill was NOT fired because of what he said; he was fired over what CNN’s advertisers and and Editorial Board said . . . probably at the behest of the Owners’ Board of Directors. This notion that Israel, is “our friend and ally” is a flagrant lie: nations do not have friends: they have interests . . . and their current interest is propagandizing the USA into believing Israel’s basic problem is still in the “simply survive” mode of early Zionism. Their aims today are to ethnically cleanse Israel (neo-apartheid!) and expand their tender mercies across as much land as they can possibly grab . . . at our expense. As “Exhibit A” I give you Iran, the last and greatest obstacle between the current status quo and Israel’s final implementation of their Greater Israel Plan (GIP) . If you, gentle reader, are not familiar w/GIP, Google it at this instant!. In short, it entails the Balkanization of the entire Arab-Iranian Middle East with Israel’s wresting control of all land (and natural resources) between the Nile Valley and the Euphrates River and south into Somalia and the Sudan.
      They will do this, too. . . regardless of how many American lives and how much American treasure it costs.
      Note: Our invading Iran will require the commitment of upwards toward 1,000,000 troops; a surge of our nation al debt into bankruptcy ranges; and twenty-or-more years of fighting . . . with absolutely no assurances of winning anything but grief and still more grief!
      Exhibit B: Vietnam;
      Exhibit C: Iraq
      Exhibit C; Iraq.

  13. Henry Norr on December 3, 2018, 11:15 am

    Great piece, Phil et al., but I’m puzzled by the conclusion. You write “…the Jewish question is still foremost. There is only one context for this issue, the lack of safety for Jews in the west. Western governments and institutions made a historical commitment to that principle, not just through the force of the lobby, or of colonialism. Ending that commitment is going to be a long struggle.”

    It sounds like you are saying we are or should be engaged in a long struggle to end Western governments’ and institutions’ commitment to the safety of Jews in the West. Surely that’s not what you mean, is it?!? Isn’t what we have to end the notion that denying justice to the Palestinians has something to do with ensuring the safety of the Jews?

  14. Ossinev on December 3, 2018, 2:04 pm

    ” If you, gentle reader, are not familiar w/GIP, Google it at this instant!. In short, it entails the Balkanization of the entire Arab-Iranian Middle East with Israel’s wresting control of all land (and natural resources) between the Nile Valley and the Euphrates River and south into Somalia and the Sudan”

    Sorry to disagree but we are long past the days of Colonising Empires with Maxim machine guns versus spears,bows and arrows. Zioland and it most moral may have perfected the art of storming unannounced Palestinian homes in the occupied territories at 3.00 am and terrorising and brutalising innocent and defenceless men women and children but they would be fouling their underwear and be decimated big time if they had to take on real live organised and determined resistance and guerrilla fighters with modern weaponry. You cannot “wrest control” of anything using F35`s above in the skies. Unfortunately for Zioland it would involve precious chosen on the ground being demographically dismembered.

    Unless of course you are seriously suggesting that it will be US forces on the ground taking the risks and suffering the mass casualties at the behest of AIPAC ,Adelson and Co. Can`t really see that one with or without the mad Donald viz putting Israel as opposed to America first and accepting the sight of US bodies being returned in bags rather than precious Zio bodies ? And as for the general US public after Iraq and with the continued loss of US soldiers in Afghanistan I don`t think that even the all conquering(in the US) Ziolobby can swing that one.

  15. Keith on December 3, 2018, 2:30 pm

    PHIL- “There is only one context for this issue, the lack of safety for Jews in the west.”

    Some empirical data to support this assertion would be nice. I have no reason to believe that Jews are less safe than Gentiles in the west and every reason to believe that on objective indicators of social well-being Jews rank above Gentiles.

    • Mayhem on December 3, 2018, 11:10 pm

      @Keith, denial, denial and more denial.
      Check out the Executive Council of Australia’s ‘REPORT on ANTISEMITISM in AUSTRALIA 2018’ for details. As for the social well-being of Jews ranking above Gentiles, that sounds like a variant of the old anti-semitic slur that is mentioned on page 19 in the report referring to “Jews as powerful, influential, and wealthy; Jews as having and exercising undue and
      disproportionate power and influence, usually against the interests of non-Jews, especially through the “Jewish (aka Israel) Lobby”.

      • Keith on December 4, 2018, 12:36 pm

        MAYHEM- “Check out the Executive Council of Australia’s ‘REPORT on ANTISEMITISM in AUSTRALIA 2018’ for details.”

        Yes, yes, Jews claiming to be victims. What else is new? I want hard statistical data. For example, what is the murder rate of Jews per 100,000 Jews versus the murder rate of non-Jews per 100,000 non-Jews? Assault rate, etc? Enough of this “anti-Semitic incidents” crapola.

        MAYHEM- “As for the social well-being of Jews ranking above Gentiles, that sounds like a variant of the old anti-semitic slur….”

        Empirical reality is a variant of an old anti-Semitic slur? B.S. If Jews were at the bottom of the heap we would be drowning in empirical data demonstrating this. Put some empirical data where your mouth is, Mayhem.

        To repeat, Jews are as safe or safer than non-Jews in the US today. They always have been and likely will remain so for the foreseeable future. Claims of rampant anti-Semitism are a dishonest Zionist meme which has influenced non-Zionist Jews as well.

      • Mayhem on December 8, 2018, 5:23 pm

        The fact that Mondoweiss has the category ‘Islamophobia’ as applied to articles on the site but does not have one for antisemitism speaks volumes about how much MW cares about Jew hatred.

      • eljay on December 8, 2018, 9:23 pm

        || Mayhem: The fact that Mondoweiss has the category ‘Islamophobia’ as applied to articles on the site but does not have one for antisemitism speaks volumes about how much MW cares about Jew hatred. ||

        Right, just like the fact that the local paper that prints stats on female rape victims doesn’t have one article on male gender issues speaks volumes about how much it cares about “men hatred”.

      • RoHa on December 8, 2018, 10:25 pm

        “The fact that Mondoweiss has the category ‘Islamophobia’ as applied to articles on the site but does not have one for antisemitism speaks volumes about how much MW cares about Jew hatred.”

        But we already know that everything is anti-Semitic. We are told that all the time.

      • Mooser on December 8, 2018, 11:45 pm

        “Right, just like the fact that the local paper…/…“men hatred”.”

        For God’s sake, “eljay”, don’t give the “men’s rights” (hmmmm, sounds a lot like mens rea donnit?) crowd any ideas!

  16. punterweger on December 3, 2018, 8:46 pm

    I live in Austria part of each year and am also quite familiar with the situation in Germany, and I can assure you that in those two countries, BDS and anti-Zionists face difficulties as great, and perhaps greater than we have in the USA.

    In Vienna, for example, it is almost impossible for BDS to find public venues for their events. In some sense the situation is even worse than in the US, and that is partly because no public intellectual is willing to speak up for Palestinians. The pro-Israel lobby on the other hand has great connections to all the centrist parties and even to the far-right (who now support Israel because they see it as an ally in their fight against Islam).

    The ruling elites and governments are not just following in the wake of the US, but are acting according to the pro-Zionist ideology that they adopted, albeit belatedly, after WWII.

  17. Maghlawatan on December 3, 2018, 10:17 pm

    I was reading about Kiruna in Sweden. It is the site of a huge iron ore mine located in Lapland where the Sami live. The Sami are reindeer herders.
    It reminded me of Israel/Palestine. 2 peoples sharing the same land. In the best of cases it is tough but it doesn’t have to be fucked up as Israel is.
    Part of that means acknowledging an inconvenient truth – the fact that the new town sits on the territory of the Sami, the indigenous people of Lapland, whose reindeer herding is frequently disrupted by mining. The Sami convene their Swedish parliament in Kiruna – though you wouldn’t know it from the opening ceremony.
    “Where’s the Sami flag? Where’s the Sami representative [on stage]?” says Carola Grahn, a Sami artist whose work is exhibited in the new gallery. “We have a Sami parliament but the head of the Sami parliament wasn’t invited.”
    “They just don’t need to give a fuck so they don’t give a fuck,” says Nils Johan Labba with a shrug. A traditional craftsman with an 18-month waiting list for his knives, he is also a member of the Sami parliament. “We have a reindeer community here, this is their moving territory. Or it was – everything changed with the city. Kiruna as a city doesn’t take much consideration about Sami people or Sami lifestyles.”

    A sense of betrayal is rooted in the Sami experience in Kiruna; several Sami told me versions of an apocryphal story about a Sami man discovering a special heavy stone, and being tricked by a Swedish prospector into revealing the location of the iron ore deposits.

    The company seems exasperated by the issue. “They have their interest in this land and we have ours,” says Mäkitaavola. “So it’s a problem. It’s not easy.”
    Stefan Sydberg, Kiruna’s deputy mayor, acknowledges the Sami people’s interests must be respected. “But moving the city centre to this area has the least impact, because this is an old industrial area. There haven’t been any reindeer in this area since before the city transformation.
    “We can’t just sit and say we can’t do anything because we have the reindeer herders. We have to evolve as a city. Because they prosper from that as well.”
    The impression Kiruna’s officials clearly want to give is of a kind of northern Swedish pragmatism. The city wouldn’t exist without the mine, so it had to be moved; yes, of course that is expensive; true, it’s Sami territory, but what isn’t? Up here, you simply get the job done.

  18. weesograce on December 4, 2018, 2:25 am

    Divine deception and deceit are alive and well. That truth, honesty, and admission of guilt are met with cruelty and callous, cavalier disregard for the Oppressed IS crushing. So then— how, when, and where will Democracy thrive? Who and What are the democratic values of our day? Are they the ultimate sham of the ‘Westernized’ 21st Century? Are they the bane of a citizenry gone blind, deaf, and impotent by perplexing contradictions within national struggles which belong to no one seen or heard? Help us comprehend why and how the machine of madness and mendacity can continue to churn and burn, and erode the core of a humanity that is left with the desperation of denial? Who gets to pick the heroes? The winners? Who gets to leave the losers behind? The spoils-of-war may quicken the death and demise of the meek… but the enlightened, enraged, educated minions will multiply and surely rise and resist. Thank You Phil, et al for expounding (with some hand-wringing) on the contradictions and the counter-forces of Justice for too too long, delayed and denied. Thanks to Gideon Levy, Miko Peled, Marc L. Hill,
    et al, for placing themselves in the center of our national struggle (in the East and in the West). PS: I am a living, breathing, resilient Semite.

    • Mooser on December 8, 2018, 11:58 pm

      ” PS: I am a living, breathing, resilient Semite.”

      Like I always say: A real live nephew of my Uncle Shem, born on the 1st of Tamuz.

  19. gamal on December 5, 2018, 2:07 pm

    And Professor Tim Anderson University of Sydney, and Professor Piers Robinson


    It’s like people want to avoid “that” conversation, I mean the Postol bellingcat debate is no news, bellingcat didn’t do well, but probably both sides are jerks, so apathy restored.

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