The Jewish Question tormented Europe for centuries. How do emerging nations deal with a state-within-a-state, a people who have been ghettoized and have a corporate sense of themselves as distinct? Jewish difference and exceptionalism (Jewish "genius," as Commentary puts it) played into the question. Jews were restricted to certain jobs. In the late 1800s Jews began to predominate in the modern professions in Vienna, Berlin, Budapest, Prague. Marx was a raving antisemite on the Jewish question, and Hitler had the murderous final solution.
My blog is about the contemporary Jewish question: Jews are principals in the U.S. establishment and yet Jewish leadership is devoted to supporting another country. These two strains cannot be reconciled. Something has to give. As Mike Desch has pointed out to me, Zionism is based on the idea that Jews are unsafe in western society. Therefore they need a Jewish state to go to as a haven. But as things have worked out, the Jewish state has required the unwavering support of American Jews, most of whom have never been there, even as they visit Tuscany and the Galapagos. Jews who are doing incredibly well in this golden land. And who carry an insurance policy, by rationalizing everything the Jewish state does, out of the holdover belief that Jews are unsafe here… A conundrum.
I keep waiting for the mainstream press to address these issues in light of the Iraq War, which had a strong component of Protect Perfect Israel From the Savage Arabs. Well, in today’s Times, in an attack on Douglas Feith, Maureen Dowd suggests that the neocons were motivated by the Holocaust to find Hitler in Iraq.
Feith’s disdain for diplomacy and his credo that weakness invites
aggression were shaped, [Tom] Ricks reported, by personal history: “Like
Wolfowitz, Feith came from a family devastated by the Holocaust. His
father lost both parents, three brothers, and four sisters to the
Nazis.”Feith told Jeffrey Goldberg in The New Yorker that “My
family got wiped out by Hitler, and … all this stuff about working
things out — well, talking to Hitler to resolve the problem didn’t make
any sense to me. The kind of people who put bumper stickers on their
car that declare that ‘War is not the answer,’ are they making a
serious comment? What’s the answer to Pearl Harbor? What’s the answer
to the Holocaust?”What’s the answer to bin Laden? According to Feith, it was an attack on an unrelated dictator.
Maureen has always hinted this kind of stuff about the Iraq War. We’re grownups; we believe in free speech. It’s time to have the conversation plainly.
Former Chief of Staff to the Secretary of State, Larry Wilkerson
In 2005, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, Powell's chief of staff, publicly stated he could "testify to" Franks' 2004 comment, and added "Seldom in my life have I met a dumber man."
Regarding Feith and his colleague, David Wurmser, Wilkerson has stated:
A lot of these guys, including Wurmser, I looked at as card-carrying members of the Likud party, as I did with Feith. You wouldn’t open their wallet and find a card, but I often wondered if their primary allegiance was to their own country or to Israel. That was the thing that troubled me, because there was so much that they said and did that looked like it was more reflective of Israel’s interest than our own.
In addition to Wolfowitz and Feith, the father of Daniel Pipes emigrated to the U.S. from Poland during the war.
(By the way, one has to be a little careful with phrases like "a people who have been ghettoized". While it's accurate, it leaves out almost as much as it contains. The ban on breaking bread with a gentile, which was widespread until well into the 20th century, wasn't imposed by the Czar.)
Since Philip sees any attack on Jewish "power" as a good and healthy thing, I assume he's pleased by the anti-occupation activists who brutally beat some Jewish kids on the BMT subway line Friday. It seems the kids started it by wishing someone Happy Hanukah, a holiday that celebrates Zionist imperialism. Will Phil join me for a rally at the Brooklyn Courthouse to demand that bias charges be dropped against the BMT 10?
Hitler Schmitler, I'm sick and tired of all this anti-Aryanism on the internet. Sure Hitler was a murderous ass but you would think he was the one and only villain of all time. What about Genghis Khan, the Turks and Stalin's willing executioners. Lets see who were those guys again. Oh wait they weren't religious that doesn't count. Those Nazi's were all Christians. They were probably Evangelicals too. (thats why the chant of the West Bank Settlers is "we killed Jesus, we'll kill you too".) It's time for all of the Germanic tribes of Europe to get that tail out from between their legs. Yes thats you Ostrogoths, you too Visigoths, Vandals you too. What could possibly be wrong with telling our children we are just extra special? We made the free world. From now on I shall view the world through the prism of my Germanicness. From now on I shall be known as MondoWhiteBoy.
The arguments between the Pipesian school (Feith was a student of this faith, with a certain knowledge imbued when Daddy Pipes told tales of fleeing Poland, fleeing from the NAZIS) and the revisionists about the development of the Soviet regime were an extension of their different understandings of the regime's origins. The leftist well-wishers of the Soviet Union tended to see Soviet bureaucrats as reasonable people wishing to modernize and gradually democratize the country. Pipes, by contrast, believed that these bureaucrats feared losing power and were ready to apply violence if necessary to maintain their positions. The revisionists saw the Soviet Union as evolving and as getting stronger, whereas Pipes saw it as degenerating and declining and unable to resolve its own ideological rigidity, command structure, and repressive character. The events of 1991 showed who had the better argument. And Feith, representing the USA in his high office, decided with his cohort neocons, no more mirror-imaging. The problem is: so what transpired with the invasion of Iraq, and the battle drums for war with Iran? Who is mirroring whom? And which projection will win the end game? I suspect, ironically, when the shoe fell on the USSR, it will come next on the USA–and for the same reasons.
Hitler Schmitler, I'm sick and tired of all this anti-Aryanism on the internet. Sure Hitler was a murderous ass but you would think he was the one and only villain of all time. What about Genghis Khan, the Turks and Stalin's willing executioners. Lets see who were those guys again. Oh wait they weren't religious that doesn't count. Those Nazi's were all Christians. They were probably Evangelicals too. (thats why the chant of the West Bank Settlers is "we killed Jesus, we'll kill you too".) It's time for all of the Germanic tribes of Europe to get that tail out from between their legs. Yes thats you Ostrogoths, you too Visigoths, Vandals you too. What could possibly be wrong with telling our children we are just extra special? We made the free world. From now on I shall view the world through the prism of my Germanicness. From now on I shall be known as MondoWhiteBoy.
What, a white goy male claiming at least moral equality? Now, that's some chutzpah. The test of virtue is power. It's pretty funny when one takes off the pointed hoods. A kindergarten child wouldn't know which crayon color to choose.
Glad to see the New York Times is finally catching on to the contemporary zeitgeist. It took it awhile.
Back in August, 2006 in an article titled 'A Religious Motive for the Iraq War Deception,' I wrote the following for CounterPunch.org:
"…In a review of 'Fiasco' for the Seattle Times, Bruce Ramsey takes note of Ricks' venture into fleshing out the psychological motives that might have animated Bush and his Iraq war policy makers: 'Ricks profiles Defense Undersecretary Paul Wolfowitz, an early champion of belligerency, and reveals how Wolfowitz's family's losses in the Holocaust shaped the way he thinksRicks argues that Bush and his senior advisers wanted a fight, and deceived themselves as well as the public about Iraq's 'weapons of mass destruction.' '
"This isn't the first time Wolfowitz's name has come up in relation to the allegedly deceitful use of his government employment on behalf of the pursuit of a personal vendetta or agenda. According to a 2004 report in Asia Times by Jim Lobe, 'Wolfowitz was investigated in 1978 for providing a classified document on the proposed sale of a US weapons system to an Arab government to an Israeli official via an [Israel lobby] AIPAC staffer…"
"…Douglas Feith, who served under Wolfowitz in the run up to the Iraq war, also has a checkered past of covert dealings on behalf of Israel. He was removed from his position as a Middle East analyst in the National Security Council in 1982 when he came under suspicion by the FBI for passing classified material to Israeli embassy officials, reports say…"
"…Certainly President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld were well-aware of the record of shady dealings on behalf of Israel by Wolfowitz, Feith and other Jewish nationalists eventually hired by the administration. Federal agencies perform exhaustive security clearance checks on all recruits to national security-sensitive areas of the government prior to their employment, which means that the administration knew exactly what it was getting when it brought them into service–and likely waived any national security concerns raised.
"In fact, given Bush's apparent Christian Zionists religious beliefs (a recent Nation magazine report says that the White House holds secret Middle East policy meetings with dispensationalist Christians who believe that "supporting Israel's expansionist policies is 'a biblical imperative'"), Wolfowitz and Feith's staunch Jewish nationalist credentials and their reported history of attempting to advance that country's interests through the co-opting of U.S. government resources on behalf of the Israeli agenda may well have been the exact characteristics the administration was looking for in those to whom it planned to entrust the formulation of America's foreign policy…"
link to counterpunch.org
Thanks for the compliment Chuck but you know darn well I'm just an animal in a human suit.
"An animal in a human suit."
Sounds like historical revisionism to me. What? You ask what other kind is there?"
Must read article by James Petras:
ISRAEL AND TOP ZIONIST LEADERS ATTACK INTELLIGENCE
link to tinyurl.com
http://NEOCONZIONISTTHREAT.BLOGSPOT.COM
What, an animal in a human suit? Sounds like historical revisionism to me. What? You ask, is there any other kind?
Must read article by James Petras:
ISRAEL AND TOP ZIONIST LEADERS ATTACK INTELLIGENCE
link to tinyurl.com
http://NEOCONZIONISTTHREAT.BLOGSPOT.COM
Must read article by James Petras:
ISRAEL AND TOP ZIONIST LEADERS ATTACK INTELLIGENCE
link to tinyurl.com
http://NEOCONZIONISTTHREAT.BLOGSPOT.COM
An animal in a human suit? What history department do you work in?
The 'Jewish question' …
__________________________
in Germany (and Europe) was a twofold question:
1. 'Can Jews become Germans?' – from the German point of view.
2. 'Do we Jews want to become Germans? – from the Jewish point of view.
The Nazis answered the first question with 'No'. And the Zionists answered the second question with 'NO'. That's why a Jewish Austrian organization said at the time: "The Zionists are the Nazis' dearest child".
So, now, the big question: What is an American?"
An American is anyone who loves life enough to want the best that it has to offer. Americans are not automatically satisfied with their current situation. Americans look to more than the next meal; they look to the future, the long term, a better tomorrow.
An American is anyone who understands that to achieve the best in life requires action, exertion, effort. Americans aren't idyll daydreamers; they take the initiative.
An American is anyone who understands the need to use one's mind and wits to meet life's challenges. You don't need college to know that you have to use your brain as well as your brawn to make your way in America.
The principles of this country are no mere abstractions; they are written in the hearts of all true Americans.
An American is anyone who understands that achieving the best in life requires risks. Immigrants have no assurance of success in a new land with different habits, institutions and language. They leave friends, relatives and familiar places, often risking their lives to cross oceans and hostile country to reach their new homes. But they, like all Americans, understand that the timid achieve nothing and forgo even that which sustains us through the worst of times: hope.
The nature of Americans explains the precious opportunity that has drawn millions to these shores. The Declaration states that all men are endowed "with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
Americans seek economic prosperity, leaving behind the resentment in other countries that is aimed at those who better their material condition. Throughout the world and throughout history, millions of individuals have endured poverty with dignity. But there is no inherent dignity in poverty.
Americans seek personal liberty, to live as they see fit, to worship as they please. Americans seek freedom from the use of power wielded arbitrarily by whoever holds the political sword.
The Declaration — and the Constitution that followed it — created a political regime for individuals who wished to be united with their countrymen not essentially by a common language, ethnic background, or other accident of birth. Americans are united by a love of liberty, respect for the freedom of others and an insistence on their own rights as set forth in the Declaration.
Unfortunately, the American spirit has eroded. Our forbearers would look with sadness at the servile and envious character of many of our citizens and policymakers. But the good news is that there are millions of Americans around the world, living in every country. Many of them will never make it here to the United States. But they are Americans. And just as millions discovered America in the past, we can rediscover what it means to be an American. The principles of this country are no mere abstractions; they are written in the hearts of all true Americans.
Now if you would like to get an idea about what American Jews think about things, rather than depend on some of the so called experts who frequent these comment sections, take a look at some actual survey figures.
Note the declining importance of Israel in their minds.
link to ajc.org
An American …
speaks English and plays (or watches) baseball, has a sort of anarchist attitude toward government and above all: judges people on their merit not on their decent.
An American (or German/European to a lesser degree) is something you can BECOME.
A Jew is something you have to BE.
That's the 'eternal' nonsensical problem.
Here is Jay the friendly Zionists post from above.
Since Philip sees any attack on Jewish "power" as a good and healthy thing, I assume he's pleased by the anti-occupation activists who brutally beat some Jewish kids on the BMT subway line Friday. It seems the kids started it by wishing someone Happy Hanukah, a holiday that celebrates Zionist imperialism. Will Phil join me for a rally at the Brooklyn Courthouse to demand that bias charges be dropped against the BMT 10?
Now here is what actually happened.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/ny-bc-ny–hanukkahattack1211dec11,0,3543792.story
You saw the report by Jay above of a brutal assault on the Brooklyn subway. And here is what actually happened.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/ny-bc-ny–hanukkahattack1211dec11,0,3543792.story
I bet Jays the kind of guy that painted swastikas on his dorm door in college for attention. Like that chick at George Washington U. that got caught a few months ago.(Although I think she blamed it on the Islamofascists.)
In looking back at Hilter, if Samuel Untermeyer hadn't declared war on Germany in 1933, in the name of the Jewish people, things might have worked out differently for both Jews and Germans.
The boycott that Samuel Untermeyer orchestrated threw millions of German out of work and set the stage for Hitler to come to power.
Jews need to look at the Nazi/Zionist alliances of that time as well. There were thousands of Jews in Hitler's military.
link to jewsnotzionists.org
Now the Likuud party in America is doing the same thing in regards to Iran.
Will Jews ever learn? They've been butchering non Jews since the very beginning, and they're still wondering why every once in a while non Jews wipe them out.
For so smart, they're just aren't getting it.
Fear not, more lessons are on the way, I must regrettably announce.
Greetings Klaus,
Hope you are enjoying the holiday season in your beautifil city. I have to disagree with you that being a Jew is solely essential and not existential. I know quite a few converts to Judaism who embody the best of Judaism and relish their jewish identities. Judaism is not a prostelytizing religion like Islam and Christianity, but we love converts. At least all of the Jews that I know do.
As an aside, I've always thought a fanciful short cut to the I-P problem is to have all those Palestinian refugees who aren't very religious convert to Judaism. Many of them are likely descendants of Jews if you go back far enough. This wouldn't work for the religious Muslims, but if you are not religious then you can be "not religious" like the vast majority of Israelis. It would solve two problems: The refugees would get to return to their homes in Israel and the "Jewish" demographic would be improved. Win-Win. Of course the Jewish Israelis could also convert to Islam…That would solve the issue as well.
Liberal White Boy – You'll likely be more presuasive if you tone the negativeness down. Hard to appreciate any relevant points you may be making with all of the anger getting in the way.
"Judaism is not a prostelytizing religion like Islam and Christianity, but we love converts."
It's hard for me to see how both halves of this sentence can be true.
Seriously folks, "It's the Jews Stupid!"
link to scribd.com
"Judaism is not a prostelytizing religion like Islam and Christianity, but we love converts."
It's hard for me to see how both halves of this sentence can be true.
Posted by: anon | December 12, 2007 at 10:07 PM
Hi Anon,
It's true in the sense that I'm not going to ask you to convert to judaism and tell you that if you don't you are damned to hell or less than in some way, but if you decide that Judaism is a preferred way to live your life – Mazel Tov. You can study the Torah with a Rabbi and go through the conversion process. It's not easy and it requires you to learn all about Judaism and the laws. As a convert you would know far more than I do about the religion as I am not particularly religious. Most of the converts I know, but not all, have converted because they married Jews and as a result of studying it fairly intensely value it a great deal and are somewhat observant, although not over the top.
I served on the board of a Jewish social service agency (which served mainly non-jews) and two of the board members were converts. They were quite beloved by the rest of the group as they were exceptional people. Both came from Catholic families.
Perhaps you are right American of Yiddish Extraction. Your patience with Palestinian suffering is most admirable.
The orthodox do not like converts. Neither does eliot abrahms.
@David, December 12, 2007 at 10:16 AM
Those attacks were carried out,,, don't hold your breath,, by jews on jews.
And a "muslum" came to the rescue, then they broke bread that night,,, amazing propaganda you attempted david.
@liberal white boy December 12, 2007 at 05:39 PM.
You are onto something. There are strong indications, or rumors to appease the faithful, that the camps were not "death camps" at all, but holding camps for the importation of the jewery from Germany to their promised land of Palistine.
From what little I have been researching and finding, this was the case afterall. It just so happened, like in all other confined cramped people spaces, some people didn't behave well toward their fellow man. The supply lines cut, shortages of food and meds,, natural results of a war where roads and rail lines are blown up.
I used to laugh at the christian, mainly catholic view on hitler. As they repeat toomany times, he was some Atheist. Which is just more revisionist history and propaganda of the time shortly after that war. Hitler as well as most of those freaks of the time were most definately cultish believers in a supremacy and creation, whether christian or jewish based makes no difference in the end.
What dif is there, they as well as the muslum is just the same story of the one desert god, stolen from previous legends and myths with their own personalized twisted theme.
Is the christ to return for the second time or what mr/mrs christians?
Correction, I copied the wrong name I replied to in both above. the previous to this was a reply to Ravenhawk December 12, 2007 at 07:12 PM, and the other I wrote to David, is supposed to be reply to Jay December 12, 2007 at 10:32 AM.
sorry for my failing.
A related post from Xymphora:
"It is starting to hit the fan"
"It has taken a long while, but the actions of the Jewish Billionaires and their employees are starting to be connected with the Wars for the Jews…"
link to xymphora.blogspot.com
Dear Writer,
I am an American Indian who is not about to sign-on with 'VENGEFUL ARABS' who belong to an unprogressive religion. The Arab World has its faults far more than Jews do. The Jewish establishment make things happen in America and around the world from Steven Spielberg to Steve Jobs to Joe Lieberman.
Given the fact that my history goes back at least 25,000 years in America, I have never seen any other group to push America forward economically like the Jews except that of the black African slave labor and mental resolve for centuries(now the African-Americans), as well as the culture of the American Indians, and drafting of the first and unknown Constitutıon by the Seneca Nation.
I am so, so tired of Americans siding with the Arabic and Islamic Worlds. These two worlds are volatile, vengeful, violent, chaotic, and full of unprogressive and uneducated people. There is never anyway that I will side with those 'bedouins' who are selfish and rich in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, and the like.
Just take the Jewish establishment out of the picture and see won't America go under economically. I admire and respect the Jewish people.
Too bad for you I'm not on the side of the 'pitiful' Arab World thats not going anywhere but to oblivion.
Those attacks were carried out,,, don't hold your breath,, by jews on jews.
And a "muslum" came to the rescue, then they broke bread that night,,, amazing propaganda you attempted david.
Posted by: Sam | December 13, 2007 at 03:20 AM
Sam, Love the irony of you calling other people propagandists.
We know that one of the ten attackers has one Jewish grandparent, but if that was good enough for Hitler, I guess it's good enough for you.
Here is the background on the "Jewish" hoodlums:
link to nydailynews.com
(worth clicking through to see the photo images)
Girl gone wild Kimberly Babajko, the 19-year-old at the center of the brutal attack on Q train straphangers celebrating Chanukah, is no stranger to violence.
The Brooklyn woman was busted in September as part of a group that assaulted two workers at a Brooklyn livery car station, officials said Wednesday.
"She punched me in the face four times," said a 47-year-old driver who was parked at the Mill Basin Car Service on Fillmore Ave. on Sept. 9.
The terrified driver, who asked not to be identified because Babajko and her friends are not in custody, said the group appeared drunk as they staggered from a nearby McDonald's to the dispatch station.
"They stared at one of my drivers [and] they were staring at me," the driver said. "I said, 'What's the problem?' and they said, 'No problem, we're just drunk.'"
Then Babajko and two other men – identified as John Henderson, 18 and Miguel Figueroa, 21 – jumped him, wildly swinging their fists and a mop handle they grabbed from a nearby garbage can, he said.
"She smacked him in the face [and] she was yelling at him," said dispatcher Michael Ferrari, who called 911 as Babajko's buddies hurled tires at the dispatch station's window.
"She initiated it," said the driver. "And she screamed at me 'You're going to hit a girl?'"
Babajko, whose pictures, posing in a prom dress and lingerie and wielding a gun appeared in the Daily News Wednesday, then tried to run. Cops quickly rounded up the group and charged them with misdemeanor assault and menacing.
Ferrari and the driver then did something they now regret: They decided not to cooperate with the Brooklyn district attorney's office, showing mercy for their young assailants.
Babajko was issued an adjournment in contemplation of dismissal, meaning her case may never face trial.
"I told the prosecutor 'I don't want their lives ruined' but that was a mistake," said the driver after hearing about Friday night's attack on the Q train. "I should have pressed charges."
Residents of Babajko's Midwood block said the part-time Kingsborough Community College student and her friends frequently hold loud, drunken parties and vandalize cars.
"They're constantly tormenting us," said one neighbor.
Babajko was among 10 thugs, including Joseph Jirovec, 19, the son of a city firefighter, who were charged with assaulting three friends who were wishing people "Happy Chanukah."
The three pals – Maria Parsheva, 23, Walter Adler, 23, and Angelica Krischanovich, 21 – suffered cuts and bruises, as did Hassan Askari, 20, a Bangladeshi Muslim who tried to help.
The incident is being investigated as a hate crime.
Jirovec, whose nickname "Fitted" is tattooed across his stomach, will start six months in jail in January for a 2006 hate crime.
Jirovec, who is white, admitted to beating two black men but insists the attack was not racially motivated because he is a member of the predominantly black Bloods gang.
He denies the subway attack was anti-Semitic because his mother was half-Jewish.
Here is more information on the courageous hero – Hassan Askari
link to nydailynews.com
(Also worth clicking through to see the photos)
The Good Samaritan who tried to stop the Christmas-versus-Chanukah subway beating has two black eyes and a sore nose – but no regrets.
"I did what I thought was right," said Hassan Askari, 20. "I did the best that I could to help."
Askari, a Bangladeshi Muslim studying at Berkeley College in Manhattan, was on a Q train headed to Brooklyn late Friday when he came to the aid of young women confronted by a group of 10 thugs.
Fearful for the women's safety, he pushed one of the men away – and was then pounced on by the group, he said.
"They grabbed me and punched and beat me up," Askari said.
"They punched me first. I didn't get a chance to punch him back."
Askari, all of 5-feet-7 and 140 pounds, said he was left with a swollen face.
He said he didn't go to the doctor because he's too busy working two waiter jobs and doesn't have the money for medical care.
He was mystified as to why the men became so outraged when the women and their male friends wished them a "Happy Chanukah" while they were yelling "Merry Christmas" on the train car.
"I don't understand," he said. "They were just being nice."
One of the Jewish victims, Walter Adler, expressed amazement that Askari took the risk to try to help.
"That a random Muslim kid helped some Jewish kids, that's what's positive about New York," said Adler, 23, who suffered a broken nose and required four stitches to close a lip wound.
Askari's interference allowed Adler to pull the emergency brake, which alerted police to trouble on the train.
Sam – More information on the thugs. The one who has one Jewish grandparent and now claims to be "Jewish" says two of the other 9 attackers are also Jewish. Read on to see just how "Jewish" this lynch mob was. And for even greater irony one of the victims wasn't even Jewish.
link to nydailynews.com
The group of thugs – including the son of a city firefighter – accused of savagely attacking straphangers celebrating Chanukah appears to revel in recklessness.
Photos from the suspects' Facebook and MySpace Web pages show the pals making a mockery of violence.
In one picture, Joseph Jirovec – who is to start six months in jail in January for a 2006 hate crime – is pointing a weapon at the head of his friend Kimberly Babajko.
In another, the 19-year-old Babajko is the one playing with the handgun, and in a third, she is shown provocatively posing in lingerie.
In a fourth, she looks almost like someone else as she poses demurely in what looks like a floor-length prom dress. In many photos, the group flashes gang signs or their middle fingers.
Jirovec, Babajko and most of the others were charged with assault. The gang could face hate crime charges stemming from the Friday night fight on the Qtrain, but Jirovec denied it was anti-Semitic, saying his mother is Jewish. "We didn't even know they were Jewish at the time," said Jirovec, 19, who took prosecutors' plea deal in September in exchange for admitting he assaulted two black men in Gerritsen Beach, Brooklyn.
"The whole hate-crime talk is ridiculous," said Jirovec, who claimed two of the friends arrested with him are Jewish.
Ten people – eight men and two women – were arrested after the melee and charged with a slew of misdemeanors, including assault, menacing and inciting a riot. All were released without bail.
Cops are investigating the incident as a possible hate crime, though no bias charges have been filed.
The three friends who suffered multiple bruises and cuts allegedly at the hands of Jirovec and his group have no doubts the attack was religiously motivated.
"They said, 'You dirty Jews, you killed Jesus on Chanukah, you should all die,'" said Maria Parsheva, 23, a Baruch College student.
Parsheva said she and her boyfriend, Walter Adler, also 23, are half-Jewish and were celebrating Chanukah at a Manhattan bar with Angelica Krischanovich, 21, and Nick Rosenbaum.
They carried a menorah and dreidels as they boarded the Qtrain at Canal St. bound for Brooklyn, Parsheva said.
On the train, they said Jirovec, Babajko and their friends loudly yelled "Merry Christmas" – and became infuriated when Krischanovich responded, "Happy Chanukah."
"[One woman said,] 'You can't say that, we are Catholic,'" said Krischanovich, a Hunter College student who is not Jewish. "That's when two guys stood up and showed us their Jesus tattoos," she said. "They started yelling at us and telling us we have no savior."
"I started to yell back when one of them spat in my face," Krischanovich said. "I didn't let it bother me, and I told him, 'Jesus turned the other cheek,' and that is when the fight started."
Parsheva said one of her attackers pulled a knife and smiled wickedly as he waved it near her face.
A good Samaritan tried to break up the fight and was injured. Adler yanked the train's emergency break, and cops made the arrests at the DeKalb Ave. station.
Though Jirovec was given just six months behind bars and five years' probation for pleading guilty to the 2005 felony assault, the plea deal says he could get up to seven years if arrested again.
"I've made mistakes," said Jirovec, whose father, Joseph Jirovec Sr., has been with the FDNY for nine years. "I want to turn my life around."
Another suspect, 19-year-old Zachery Rogalski, was charged in a 2005 attack on black youths in Marine Park. Babajko declined to comment. At her family's home, her brother also refused to speak to the Daily News.
Many civic leaders are worried that the number of hate crimes – and anti-Semitic incidents, in particular – are increasing throughout the city.
"The whole thing is sickening," Assemblyman Dov Hikind (D-Brooklyn) said. Hate crime complaints in the city had surged by 20% compared to a year ago by Nov. 30, the last day for which NYPD statistics were available.
"Dowd suggests that the neocons were motivated by the Holocaust to find Hitler in Iraq"
I can't believe it took this long for some MS writer to say this.
When the "Jewish" element in our terrier wur and ME foreign policy first appeared on my radar screen I went to great lenghts to try and figure out what the hell these people were doing. The fact that US Jews were so loyal to Israel really was a new revelation for me since I had had no prior reason to consider or even think about the jews as any kind of "collective" party or force in our foreign policy.
Even before I stumbled on Jackie Roses's "Question of Zion" it was clear that any close observer could understand that the uber zionist and their followers were forcing their own "personal nightmares" on this country and the entire world for that matter.
Victimhood and fearful paranoia and revenge were never American traits or part of our culture and our country should not be run based on their sickness. The absurdity of this is what is making Americans just as fanatical in opposing them.
Daveq – Some orthodox sects may not, but not all. Here is more information on converting to Judaism.
link to en.wikipedia.org
link to convert.org
link to convertingtojudaism.com
Some converts' stories
Erkan's paternal grandparents were Romanian Jews who, in the 1930s, fled the Nazis for safety in Turkey. He is 28 years old and the son of a Jewish father and a Muslim mother. In the 1960s his parents emigrated from Turkey to Germany where his father secretly practiced his Judaism in the German Muslim community. Erkan chose Judaism as his religion while his brother decided on Islam. Until his father's death he was unaware of the need of the conversion process because he had always identified as being Jewish. When his father was buried in an Islamic cemetery because of his secret life as a Jew he realized that it was necessary for him to make his commitment to Judaism official and known.
Emma, age 55, lives in the "Deep South" of the United States. She describes her discontent with Christianity since childhood as feelings of dissatisfaction with the doctrine that one religion damned the people of other religions to "Hell" for not believing as they do. Reading the Torah opened a new world of the "greatness and singularity of God" and she was able to realize her uncertainties about Christianity and her assurance of God through Judaism.
Craig comes from a cattle property in the "Outback" of Queensland, Australia and from a Protestant Anglican background. Through extensive readings and studies in theology he came to believe that it is our own experiences and values that determine our future, not those that dogma dictate that we must accept without question. He came to know that it was Judaism that offered him what he was searching for. With his conversion at age 27 he says, "I have found my spiritual home".
Brad, from Texas and of a Southern Baptist upbringing, began to question his base in Christianity at approximately age 12. Over the years he abandoned all aspects of organized religion then, feeling a spiritual void, he began to study the various religions of the world. Through this study he came to develop his own philosophy, his definition of God, and began to establish what his relationship with God was to be. He found that the product of his search was what Judaism is. Brad describes his process to conversion as, "wandering in the desert for many years before determining that (his) beliefs coincided with those of Judaism". He undertook formal conversion at age 51.
You all make a lot of freehand assumptions about what Jewish life was like in the past (which you can never know) and about what it is in the present (where you may be just a wee bit biased). These assumptions are generally based on the many shibboleths being used to keep the bad idea of zionism afloat at the direct expense of the rest of the world beginning with the Christians in Palestine and ending with me on the other side of the world. I don't see anything of value in here–it is just more zionist propaganda being rained down on a patient world that grew sick and tired of this long ago. "Ghettoized???" What nonsense! Am sure that well over 99% of all historically reported antisemitism is distorted, contrived or patently false just like the many self-inflicted antisemitic acts these lying zionists commit all of the time. For example: just how many actual wars have been fought between Jews and Moslems over the past 2000 years? Just three large battles in 2000 years, and no outright wars, period. It is high time you idiot goy Americans woke up to these facts and stop being led by a ring of falsehood stuck in your nose.
When someone is wishing an anonymous crowd "Merry Christmas," what does it mean to reply "Happy Hanukkah"? Isn't it meant to be at least on some level insulting, telling the speaker that his well-wishes aren't appreciated? In other words, why would a Jew wish a self-identified Christian "Happy Hanukkah"? Isn't it possible to interpret the subway incident as a case of "Christian baiting"? (They're not unheard of, after all.)
This is not justifying the physical attack, but just trying to take the analysis beyond the level of the tabloid media.
It is sad but hilarious how the sheeple keep fighting among themselves. This is what the elite would probably say, "Thank you for continuing to fight amongst yourselves, it makes our job of controlling you a lot easier, we appreciate you, keep up the good work."
There are only 2 types of people the elite(Jews(made up name)/Edomites(made up the name Jews)) and us the sheeple. Now some of the "sheeple" causing discord among the masses are really from the elite. We have got to get our eyes off of the trees and focus on the forest(elite) instead.
When someone is wishing a group of people with menorahs and driedels on Chanukah "Merry Christmas," isn't it meant to be at least on some level insulting. In other words, why would a Christian wish a self-identified Jew "Merry Christmas" on Chanukah? Isn't it possible to interpret the subway incident as a case of "Jew baiting"? (They're not unheard of, after all.) And if the Jew responds Happy Chanukah, since it is Chanukah, couldn't it be interpreted as a gesture of sharing of their tradition?
Besides David, isn't it enough for you that the Muslim was offended by all this, or are the Muslims in on the conspiracy these days too?
"Askari, all of 5-feet-7 and 140 pounds, said he was left with a swollen face."
"He said he didn't go to the doctor because he's too busy working two waiter jobs and doesn't have the money for medical care."
"He was mystified as to why the men became so outraged when the women and their male friends wished them a "Happy Chanukah" while they were yelling "Merry Christmas" on the train car."
"I don't understand," he said. "They were just being nice."
The more I read your comments David, the more I'm convinced you are a troubled soul.
Stu I had heard that the Palestinians were the descendants of the Edomites. Which is it? Perhaps you could educate all of us about the trail of the serpent.
Norman IPodertz (sic): On producing the latest USA NIE.
Intercepts, defectors, news photos, whatever – he isn't interested. The whole thing is a plot by the advocates of "appeasement" to undermine the sacred goal of killing thousands of Iranians and embroiling the USA in another war in the Middle East. The average American is much more interested in the games at the Sports Bar. What's the difference between factor Joseph's Egypt and modern America? Pyyramids versus Skyscrapers? Seven years of plenty, seven years of famine. Get ready to pay the price, tax upon tax; fear, and the state will own you–but, you'll still be happy if you can afford some of that grain you gave willingly–just give up all rights and property.
Marx real name was Mordechai Marx Levy,just for the record. From a long line of rabbis. Communism was founded in Judaism. Like in Kibbutz.Boshevism was a Jewish experiment. Trotsky was really Bronstein. Kruschev was really Perlmutter. FDR's real name was Rosenfelt. Churchill's mother real name was Jacobson. Eisenhauer's West Point photo is enscribed with "the terrible Sweedish Jew". The list goes on but make no mistake,there is a "Jewish Question". Hitler was financed by the Fereral Reserve and the Bank of England,Jewish owned and operated. So if you want to whine about the holocaust,whine to them.
Yes the leadership of the Palestinians is Edomite, but so is the leadership of the Jews. The Maccabees(John Hyrcanus) caused some Edomites to be "converted" to the Pharisee religion. Herod was an Edomite. Esau married into many different nations taking on their name instead of keeping his. This enabled him to "disappear" from the scene. In Gen 27:40 it says that Esau would grow restless and throw the yoke of Joseph off. I believe that this has happened. 95% of the Ashkenazi Jews are non-semitic Khazars. Esau controls both the east and west(the leadership of the various nations). I believe that Esau is trying to get back his birthright, it makes it easier for him to do it under the cloak of darkness.
Everybody is saying that this side or that side is wrong, what if both sides are wrong?
The chance of both being right is ZERO, the chance of both being wrong can be 100%. We have to quit wearing out ourselves worrying about this tree or that tree and instead focus on the one forest(elite).
Just to state the obvious: Maureen Dowd is part of the MSM; since she put out the Feith et all nexus, what's next? Methinks
Carter & W & M were courageous, and now Dowd? I've studied the interaction between host nations and the Jews, looking for the roots of the most horrible historical cycles; I see this is just the latest. It's really hard to tell who is more obtuse, the goy or the jew. I think both have main actors, neither of whom care a bit about their family relations–it's all about ego and its bra, sentimentalism.
A Jostler in the Market: Today it is snowing in Boston. Nothing about this storm is the slightest bit strange, only that we haven't had a major snowstorm before Christmas in awhile. At the end of Chanukah, that is. Well, people get kind of nervous. The panic sets in. Food is a marker of the panic. I go to my usual Whole Foods to try and find the Pollo con Arroz package that will disguise the slightly overaged chicken parts in my fridge at home. But there are only packages of Moros y Christianos, and a Paella mix. As I'm reaching behind these boxes in hopes of scoring a missing Pollo, these two women of a certain ethnic group which shall here be nameless double-team me in the irritating way entitled people have who want to share with themselves your social inferiority to theirs. They insist that I bring my cart around just so, so that they can have a gander at the rice mixes as I have taken too long. But it isn't a polite asking, it is a telling as in "You dumbie, WE'RE here now and we must have what we must have." I was annoyed. The nattering little chatter between them was indicative of people who, when they meet a stranger, must quickly size up where that person belongs vis a vis their kinship group. It doesn't matter how many droning bar mitzvah's you have sat through or even if you have given birth to people they'd take for their own: on sight, they size you up, and if you don't make the cut, you are to move aside, give way to them. I suppose a lot of people do this. I am in one environment where I am (although a thirteenth generation inhabitant), increasingly seen as an outsider and branded as coming from the Oppressor. It's bullshit of course. But there you are. On a snowy day, the gloves come off, I guess. I threw my rice mix hard into the basket, hard enough to make some noise, and then I wondered: should I have acted as though I had not been touched by this situation? Did I just imagine it? Is that what feminists say women used to do who were groped in the subway? How should I have registered my disapproval, incisively?
The noise I made was all I did. That was probably a message loud enough to hear. All the little in-groups in the world are, after all, minorities. But the strongest of minorities is the individual who perceives things for what they are.
Dianne – I know how you feel sista. You are a beautiful Saxon women and you deserve to be respected. Some wetback cut me off at the intersection of Wilshire and La Cienega today in that really annoying Mexican sort of way. Now I hate Mexicans as much as you hate jews.
Please try to eat more ethnically pure foods. That Pollo con Arroz is Mexican food and based on my experience earlier today I hate Mexicans.
Just another example of how Jews control the media. Look at how much attention that little scuffle on a subway got and how little attention this story about the rest of us gets. Fat chance they will invoke hate crimes here.
link to wbaltv.com
Another Alleged Bus Beating In Baltimore
Thursday, December 13, 2007
WBAL Radio and TV
There has apparently been another bus beating on an MTA bus in Baltimore.
WBAL-TV reports that two men aboard the #64 bus in Brooklyn claim they were attacked by a group of 7 black teens. The two men say they were attacked because they were white. They also claim the bus driver refused to call police for them.
The two men suffered cuts and bruises.
The MTA says it is investigating the claim.
This comes less than a week after a white woman was beaten on a bus. 9 black middle school students have been arrested in that case.
Dianne,
We all have had interactions with unlikeable people. The world is full of such characters and there are no shortage of snotty, high maintenance jews, no doubt.
What is it you think you should have done in this situation?
You attribute much of these women's behavior to their being jewish — I'm assuming that is what you were referring to and why you're writing on this blog — so what would you liked to have said to them?
You implied that your children are half jewish. Have you had problems with your husband's family?
what happened to all the comments on this page?