I've failed to convey one of the most important events at the AIPAC policy conference, the appearance by Tal Becker, chief policy adviser to Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister. This was the most encouraging and positive event at a conference that I generally found fearful and defensive. Part of this was Becker himself, a softspoken man with an English-Israeli accent and a real respect for Palestinians. I trusted him almost from the first word he said. I felt bathed, as I never ever did at other times at AIPAC, by feelings of compassion for Palestinian suffering, and wanted to cry out, Here is a real Jew!!! Maybe I'm being deluded, I don't care. I'm going to set forth a lot of his statements below in real time.
Becker was on a panel called "Prospects for Peace: Can the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict Be Solved?"
The other speakers were David Makovsky of WINEP, who is neocon-lite, and Ken Stein of Emory’s Institute for the Study of Modern Israel, who was historical. Becker was so real and engaged compared to these men that no one could listen to them once he began talking. And throughout, Becker addressed the right wing, the doubting Jews in the audience who oppose the peace process because they are hungry for more Palestinian land, or believe Arabs are animals, etc.
“I see Saeb Erekat a lot more than I see my wife and my kids,” he began. Why is he trying to make a deal? He was in Paris a few months back and heard Tony Blair say that there are two kinds of people in the world, people who comment and people who act. He has decided he must act. People say there’s danger in going forward, there are no good options. True; you have to choose between bad options.
“Look at the region around us… We see the empowerment of extremist forces… The conflict is becoming religious in character…We see also a fundamental debate within Palestinian society [between religious extremists and moderates}... We could sit and wait for the terrorist infrastructure to be dismantled [as called for by phase 1 of the roadmap].” Or we can try to empower the moderates. “We are not negotiating as a gift to the Palestinians, we are negotiating to insure Israel’s interests.” We have to offer a real alternative to Hamas, now.
Erekat and Becker meet almost daily. Under them is a group of expert teams who meet constantly. It is all secret, with no leaks–a real first for such negotiations. “Everything is on the table.” Water, the environment, economic relations, refugees. He was not at liberty to tell us any of the actual negotiations. “Some are going well, some are going less well…. We are not regurgitating our narratives at one another. Not a day goes by without talks talking place.”
There is an awareness on the Israeli side, that the Palestinian state must fulfill the aspirations of the Palestinians, including of course the claims of the refugees.
How serious is this process? A month ago, Livni decided not to cancel a meeting with Abu Alaa, her counterpart, after learning by telephone of a suicide bombing on her way to the meeting. “No I’m going to go to this meeting,” she said. Becker added: “I think this is a very significant change.” At the same time, he said, the purpose of the talks is to nullify Hamas’s influence. “We will not give keys to our future to those who are going to blow themselves up.” And here Becker struck a militant chord, which was often struck at the conference, hinting we will soon see an invasion of some sort in Gaza. “There is no easy solution to Gaza. No easy military solution, no easy diplomatic solution…. Our goal is to delegitimize Hamas because of what it offers for the future…. They offer nothing for the Palestinian people and nothing for the Israeli people.” [Guns and minds--when has that worked?]
Meantime the goal is to develop Palestinian institutions in the West Bank and turn “the two-state solution into a reality. Our goal is to reach an agreement if we can. If we don’t, to keep talking and to keep talking and to keep talking… We are not doing this for the U.S. administration.” For Israel’s core interest is to have a healthy Palestinian state on its border. Not a terrorist state or a failed state.
The Q-and-A. A lady said the only option was in the bible. “The land of Israel belongs to us because God gave it to us….we have only one state, Eretz Israel.” Smattering of applause.
Becker was gentle. The only way to guarantee that Israel will be both a Jewish state and a democratic state is to “come to terms with the fact that we don’t live in a vacuum… we have neighbors…millions of Palestinians.” The only way to get what Jews want is to take the interests of others into account. Big applause.
Another adversarial question. How do we know they want peace? Why would they want it?
Becker: “I try not to paint people with one brush. I think there are Palestinians who… are interested in a normal life, a prosperous life… and committed to a two-state solution. There are other Palestinians committed to Israel’s destruction. My goal is to have enough nuance in my message and in my actions.. that I can reach out to those Palestinians and have them dictate the the terms of what the future will look like.” And thereby create a dynamic of more peace, less violence.
A kid from South Jersey named Janofsky took Becker on. His answer this time contained an important point. “Both sides realize that they have to compromise.” One of the most significant developments is that “Each side is thinking about the other side’s victory speech, how the other side will be able to market the agreement” to its people. That is a very important dynamic in the negotiating room. Huh.
A few comments from me. I am for the 2-state solution because it seems to offer the hope of ending a cycle of violence that has ensnared my country, the U.S. That is the reason I got into this stuff, because of 9/11 and Iraq. I’m a selfish American. (And no, Tony Blair is not my role model.) Obviously it has to be a just solution. Americans, and Israelis, must actually think about what Palestinians want. Becker is doing this, so he has my respect. The right of return is of course a huge issue in Palestinian hearts and an issue for anyone who takes the dispossession of ‘48 seriously. The AIPAC conference is a festival of Nakba denial. But I don’t think Becker can’t go in for that. Makovsky, who is clearly in the know, indicated that Israel seeks to extinguish the right of return with a “quota” of returnees under the understanding of “reunification of families.” Again, the key is that this solution can be made acceptable to the Palestinian people, presumably with a lot of sweeteners. Not my call.
Of course I question whether the strategy will be effective. I question whether it is possible to isolate and nullify Hamas after so empowering them through humiliation and violence. In that sense, Becker’s talk underlines the fact that Israel is engaged, as a sovereign government and occupier, in the same process that Joshua Landis explained to me that all governments are engaged in in that region: trying to push down the Islamic extremists. A hearts and minds question. And as Nadia Hijab has said, the two-state solution may well have died when Arafat died. He was the only one who could pull it off. Now that Israel is desperate for it, it may be too late. Becker said that the papers exaggerate how much settlement-building is actually going on. I have seen those colonies, and it makes me a one-stater, most of the time.
Myself, I like to be an optimist. To me, Becker is the path toward post-Zionism. So I am pulling for the most humane speaker at AIPAC to be successful. And pulling for my community to get over its selfishness, evident everywhere at this conference, and work on behalf of the true interests of another people. Break down those psycho-religious borders, and the real ones won’t be so significant.
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"I felt bathed, as I never ever did at other times at AIPAC, by feelings of compassion for Palestinian suffering, and wanted to cry out, Here is a real Jew!!!"
Just out of curiosity, how do you view a real American?
"And pulling for my community to get over its selfishness, evident everywhere at this conference, and work on behalf of the true interests of another people."
That would be nice. Which people are your people, and on whose behalf should they work?
I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but those are the questions that came to mind after reading your post.
As far as Tal Becker goes, he's probably just another Israeli talking. We'll see what he does, if he has any influence at all.
obama sucking up to the dual allegiance americans…..and a grading on his statements before that lobby.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVLXqHgLSTM&eurl=http://thestressblog.com/
Thanks, lately I have been wondering why I "feel" I don't like Tzipi Livni. For some strange reason, I can't locate the origins of it. But now I think, I'll her a chance.
Some times all of this concern for Israel just makes me want to puke.
Partners' In Crime…The Planner, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and The Complicit Observers…But Were Netanyahu and Sharon Just Observers?
http://homo-sapien-underground.blogspot.com/2008/06/partners-in-crimethe-planner-and.html
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"Here Becker struck a militant chord … hinting we will soon see an invasion of some sort in Gaza. 'There is no easy solution to Gaza. No easy military solution, no easy diplomatic solution…. Our goal is to delegitimize Hamas.'"
Israel and the U.S. made a huge strategic mistake in supporting the 2006 Palestinian elections — which they complacently assumed Fatah would win — then immediately seeking to nullify the results when Hamas proved to be the victor.
That was a monumental act of bad faith. Had they given Hamas a chance to govern, and Hamas proved unwilling to quell acts of terror, then there would have been a clearcut case for "delegitimizing" Hamas. But doing so based on the flimsy pretext of inflammatory statements in the Hamas charter, or by its more militant members, doesn't hold water. After all, Israel had some Jewish terrorist groups in its past as well.
To amplify the error by invading Gaza, with large-scale civilian casualties, would be disastrous. I believe it would really coalesce the widespread revulsion toward Israel's Warsaw ghetto-style seige of Gaza. If this happens, I will become a strident advocate of a boycott of U.S. investment in Israel, and U.S. importation of Israeli goods.
Israeli transport minister Mofaz already sucker-punched Americans on Friday with his belligerent comments about war with Iran. Oil rocketed to a record, and gasoline vaulted over four dollars a gallon. Thanks a lot, Israel! One more provocation from this astonishingly presumptuous little country, and it may just be time for a showdown with this phony-ass "ally."
" One more provocation from this astonishingly presumptuous little country, and it may just be time for a showdown with this phony-ass "ally."
Do we really need provocations to send Israel to the fate that it deserves? If we had leaders who were looking out for U.S. interests, the U.S would never have involved itself with Israel in the first place. Surely we don't need provocations to disassociate.
Zionism with a human face, that's all.
In fact there IS an easy answer to Gaza, passive resistance. The rockets and mortars really aren't that effective as weapons, more as propaganda. Propaganda can be reversed to harm the perpetrator. The Israelis ask, "Why should Gazans live normal lives while we live in terror?" They have it backwards–the Gazans themselves would ask, "While we are living normal lives why should Israelis live in terror?"
Let the militants pave the streets with weapons, for they will soon lose the will to use them if they wish to retain the support of the people. "The Israelis grow fat on our rockets," they will complain. "Why are we beating a dead horse?"
Instead, of such a reasonable plan the Israelis have an unreasonable one. Reoccupy the Gaza Strip, "free" the Palestinians from the Hamas Government and install a quisling government. Then hand the whole mess over to UN forces (better they should take the casualties than the IDF) and hey, presto! Gaza becomes another Singapore. Everybody gets stinking rich and Israel can do what it likes with the West Bank. Suddenly passive resistance doesn't look like such a pipe dream, does it?
"We have to offer a real alternative to Hamas, now."
This is hilarious.
If y'all recall, Hamas began because Israel wanted an alternative to the PLO, and wanted a competing organization to split the Palestinians.
How did that work out, again?
Just L O L.
Also, Phil, I love you, but never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be taken by what a politician says.
Only what he and his country DO.
I know, Obama is a good speaker, and so is this guy but that is their JOB.
It is really only bush, the "leader of the free world", who is a total nitwit and cannot string a proper sentence together.
Haygood must lead a fascinating life! When he's not standing on street corners in suburbia protesting . . .whatever, he's jerking off to his revenge fantasies. Where does his hatred come from? Did a Jew get into art school in his place?
Since he was too much of a pussy to serve his country I'd say he should defer to men like me on this subject.
Notice, by the way, how Haygood et al react to a reasonable Israeli. That seems to offend them even more . . .
Haygood can defend himself, I'm sure. But you have to see the difference between an American citizen protesting government policy, and some jackass Israeli who shouldn't even be in the country doing the bidding of a foreign government. You see the difference, don't you?
The Isreali should not have a political voice or opinion. To be honest, he and his family should be sent packing.
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Hey people! This just in from Haraatz Opinion section. This is a BOMBSHELL I think!
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Last update – 13:01 08/06/2008
Not what the Zionist forefathers had in mind
By Shlomo Avineri
Tags: Israel
Every year, intellectuals and public figures hold what seems like an endless spate of symposia on the various aspects of Israel-Diaspora relations – gatherings that touch on a number of crucial theoretical, religious, ethical, historic and political dimensions. Yet one issue that is never discussed is campaign contributions from wealthy Diaspora Jews to Israeli political candidates – be they for party primaries or the general election – as well as these donors' influence on the Israeli political system. The time has come for a serious examination of this issue.
This matter has never been a secret. Nearly every investigation into the activities of our sitting prime ministers have focused on the various methods of campaign fund-raising from foreign donors in one way or another. Even if Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is speaking the truth when he says all the cash Morris Talansky gave him was for his campaign for Jerusalem mayor and for Likud chairman, this is a practice that must stop. Over the past few weeks, Israelis have been bombarded with newspaper stories detailing how most of the country's political figures have raised enormous amounts of cash from Jews abroad. Without going into specifics and naming names, we all know that some have evaded criminal investigations by the skin of their teeth. In addition, the identities of the most generous donors and their political affiliations are known to all.
The law limits the amount of money Israeli citizens and corporations may donate to political candidates. Indeed, there is no financial law that cannot be circumvented in some creative way, yet the issue of foreign donations remains a loose end. The sums from abroad are astronomical.
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The need to raise money for political campaigns, especially party primaries, is one of the key factors that has corrupted the norms of government in this country. Yet soliciting donations from abroad is a serious blow to the main principle of democracy. It usurps a significant part of the will of the sovereign – in this case, the citizens – and enables well-heeled foreigners who are not citizens to directly influence the election results.
No other democratic state in the world permits campaign funding from foreigners. It is clear that the special ties that bind Israel and Diaspora Jewry have created a unique situation. We live in a world where Jews abroad express solidarity with Israel and the Zionist enterprise by way of contributions – to the United Jewish Appeal, academic institutions, local municipalities, non-profit athletic organizations, educational programs and the like. This slippery slope eventually led to funding for political candidates, and the regrettable experiment of directly electing the prime minister only solidified the link between candidates and their foreign financial backers.
This situation must end. Israel correctly denies Diaspora Jews the right to vote, and Israelis who reside abroad cannot cast a ballot. How does one reconcile wealthy Jews – some of whom earned their fortune in ways that would best be left unexplored at the moment – using their financial muscle to determine who will be prime minister, minister or mayor?
Every piece of legislation designed to regulate or limit the scope of foreign donations is destined to fail, as was proven in the investigation into the various non-profit groups. There is only one way, extreme and drastic as it is, to put an end to this subversion of the democratic order: an absolute ban on all foreign donations, direct or indirect, whether for primaries or general elections.
The only effective sanction should be similarly drastic and simple: Anyone who violates the law will be ineligible for office. I'm not naive – this law also could be circumvented, though doing so would be much more difficult.
Israel is a Jewish state and a state of all its citizens. It serves as a rallying point for the Jews of the Diaspora. And yet, letting a group of Jewish millionaire and billionaire non-citizens use their wherewithal to interfere in Israel's political matters is intolerable, undemocratic and corrupting. None of the founding fathers of the Zionist movement could have dreamed of a Jewish state whose fate was determined by Jews in the Diaspora. It's time to seriously examine the issue, despite the opposition – self-serving and expected as it may be – of most of the country's political leadership. In the meantime, Israelis would be well-advised to demand each and every candidate declare that he does not receive foreign contributions. It is likely to be an effective step.
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WOW! So the same facist pig gangster motherfuckers who control American policy on Palastine also control the Zionist State. It makes things so clear, but it never occured to me.
As long as this situation persists, all talk of peace is a sick joke. Concievably Livni and Becker are on the level, but there is no way they can put it over.
"None of the founding fathers of the Zionist movement could have dreamed of a Jewish state whose fate was determined by Jews in the Diaspora. It's time to seriously examine the issue, despite the opposition – self-serving and expected as it may be – of most of the country's political leadership. In the meantime, Israelis would be well-advised to demand each and every candidate declare that he does not receive foreign contributions. It is likely to be an effective step."
I wonder what the U.S. founding fathers would think of our situation?
Re:"Since he (Haygood) was too much of a pussy to serve his country I'd say he should defer to men like me on this subject. "
Haygood says a lot that is right to the point(s). I am a veteran–US Army, combat engineers.
Interesting. In America we have the abuse of the lobby system via campaign donations for or against state candidates, and in Israel, they have the same thing. Single-issue Plutocracy rules here and there. Regular Americans and Israelis pay in every way
for the idiot notions of a handful of super-wealthy Jews–not mentioning how they got their money….
Now, how do you handle this state of affairs since the Fourth Estate is mute in America?
"Now, how do you handle this state of affairs since the Fourth Estate is mute in America?"
Charles, I wouldn't say that the fourth estate is mute. I would say that the fourth estate is complicit. Mute would be hearing nothing about Israel, but the media supports the situation with constant propaganda.
What to do? I seriously doubt that the political process could work with enough speed (even if guided well) to save the nation. Since there is not a single person, let alone a group of people who seem competent enough to guide the ship, I think we are in for trouble. At the very least, the nation will vastly different politically, economically, culturally and demographically.
Do you care to risk life or liberty on a losing proposition?
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As for the interesting question of what is a real Jew, I would say the Real Jews were the adherents of pre-priestly Shamanic Hebreism. After that it was mostly downhill. The priests were bureauocratic whores, as was pointed out by last weeks Torah portion. Rabbinic Judaism showed real promise, but it soon ossified into legalistic fundimentalism. The Hassids had some sucess in restoring Jewish Soul, but by now most of them are full of shit as well.
I would like to see a project to piece together the essentials of High Early Judaism. Obviously it would be drawn together by the love of Yahweh, and not genetics.
I suppose that is not the purpose of this blog, but I dont know where to take it.
Haygood is saying reasonable things for an American to say. Since when does an American bow down to a foreign official dictating our foreign policy; and as for the price of gas rising $11/barrel on Friday? Do your homework. (Hint: it's an AFP news wire release.) It rose because Israel threatened war with Iran. The reason given by the speculators who jimmied up the price.
I concur with Haygood: this is an ally?
But what does Israel care? It has a 2002 MOU that states we, the American taxpayers, have to supply Israel with $3 billion in oil at 2002 prices "even if it causes domestic shortage at home." (Google Jane's Defense Weekly.)
"Since he was too much of a pussy to serve his country I'd say he should defer to men like me on this subject.
Notice, by the way, how Haygood et al react to a reasonable Israeli. That seems to offend them even more . . "
Willy Drager, USMC
Well, ladies and gents, we seem to have a real life troll on the site.
"I am a veteran–US Army, combat engineers.
Posted by: Charles Keating"
Thanks for serving, Charles.
signed,
AmericanGoy, USKC (US Keyboard Commandos)
Todd says 'Since there is not a single person, let alone a group of people who seem competent enough to guide the ship, I think we are in for trouble'.
I am still hoping that Obama had enough association with the brothers that he learned to be a jiveass for the Man. In which case we can safely disregard everything he says. A desperate hope indeed, but I'm not ready to give it up yet.
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Paul Easton,
There is also the issue of money-laundering through the PM's office that is fascinating, echoed by Rabbis in LA and Brooklyn caught by the IRS doing the same thing in the last two years.
Here's how it works. The umpty-ump in a magnanimous gesture sends $20 million to Israel, and claim a tax break here. The PM's office takes 10%, and the rest is dumped into a bank account for a "charity" of one, and the unpty-ump can then extract the dough in his own sweet time. Double-dipping.
I dont have a link for this, but I copied the article somewhere, written by someone who was privy to the scam.
This loophole needs to close.
Contract this with the those mewling about a gardener sending $100 home to his parents devastated by NAFTA.
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MRW,
Very interesting. I'd like to see the link.
By PM you mean Olmert? Did he think it up or was it traditional? Does it have something to do with his current problem? What is his problem now? I wonder if he is giving Livni her head to justify his clinging to the office.
I wonder who was PM on 09/11/01? Sharon?
I wonder if Olmert is afraid that something big will spill when he leaves?
I have been away and out of touch for several months. Today I felt like looking at Haaretz. I stuck in my thumb and pulled out a plum and exclaimed what a good boy am I!
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If some sort of decent and lasting peace deal is hammered out, will it have been worth all of the chaos, blood, waste of money, and the loss of American prestige and credibility at home and abroad? What will the average American get out of it?
Some Israeli will be a shining hero, and we'll lose a fortune, a nation and prestige. What a deal!
Charles, isn't a combat engineer "in the rear with the gear" as it's put in Full Metal Jacket?
To address Weiss's original comment:
He correctly describes David Makovsky of WINEP, on the same panel, as neocon lite. I went to hear him at my local Hillel on April 1st, and ended up being banned from the place (I'm Jewish, great). Makovsky also postures as a moderate, flying over to consult with Fayeed on economic development. He actually thought he had to cajole what he assumed was a more intransigent "Jewish audience" into accepting his feigned concern for the Palestinians. But Makovsky never failed to show his true colors, arrogant and condescending white man going to advise the little dark people what they need to do to make peace. He actually held the Palestinians responsible for their lack of economic development.
Maybe Becker is different, but why should I think so? Becker-Erekat sounds like Makovsky-Fayeed, until I find out otherwise.
There's no reason to think this relationship doesn't follow the usual pattern.
'One more provocation from this astonishingly presumptuous little country, and it may just be time for a showdown with this phony-ass "ally." '
Hands up those who would refuse to serve alongside the IDF in the GWOT, but would cheerfully enlist in an international force to expel them from the West Bank and Gaza?
"Hands up those who would refuse to serve alongside the IDF in the GWOT, but would cheerfully enlist in an international force to expel them from the West Bank and Gaza?"
I'd love the opportunity to expel them from the United States, along with their flunkies in the government and churches.
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