Nation editor Katrina Vanden Heuvel asked J Street’s leader about its position re AIPAC:
I challenged Jeremy Ben-Ami about J Street’s decision not to directly respond to some of what was said at AIPAC’s recent annual meeting in order to assert itself as a progressive counter to that organization.
“It is very important – and we’ve made clear from the get-go – that this is not an anti-AIPAC effort,” Ben-Ami said. “Because there are a lot of people who support AIPAC and who do it out of very goodhearted reasons…. So, we are really consciously not anti-AIPAC. We are against the fact that the debate on Israel has been hijacked by the right-wing – that’s right-wing Christian Zionists, right-wing neoconservatives, rightwingers who run major Jewish organizations, but it’s not all AIPAC…. The truth is so much more complex and it actually doesn’t serve anybody’s purpose to make this about AIPAC because it’s about the policy – it’s about what’s best for Israel, it’s about what’s best for the United States.”
In a piece about J-Street in the J-Post, Samuel Freedman also apologizes for AIPAC:
J Street proclaims that it offers a “new address,” and that address is more an URL than a building. The question is who is going to click. Criticizing AIPAC is easy; it demands nothing. Saying you feel unrepresented by the Israel lobby is easy; it requires only breath.
I think I understand this now. J Street’s prime objective isn’t to counteract AIPAC–say by speaking out about the settlements or dividing Jerusalem or the occupation. No, J Street truly does not trust American Jewry enough to take those stands (and you can understand, when 58 percent of American Jews are against dividing Jerusalem). AIPAC sets policy; and so, J Street’s primary objective is to lobby AIPAC. (I do think it’s having an effect.)
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You are not anti-AIPAC, but are pro Israel.
Dual loyalty and all that.
Sooooooo…
American has gained another pro Israel Lobby.
So now Jews who support Israel first, and America second, have a choice: support the right wing AIPAC, or the left wing, less crazy, more lovable, huggable J-Street.
Which both organizations, incidentally, work for the same goal – promotion of ISRAEL'S interests, and America be damned.
Hooray!
PS
By the way, if you ever dare to raise an issue of dual loyalty, you are an anti semite… or at least a self hating Jew.
"We are against the fact that the debate on Israel has been hijacked by the right-wing – that's right-wing Christian Zionists, right-wing neoconservatives, rightwingers who run major Jewish organizations, but it's not all AIPAC…."
Wrong order bonehead!!! Ben-Ami Agenda: Let's see if we can deflect criticism away from Jews (Jewish neocons and Jewish organizations) and put it on those evil evangelicals!!!
"The truth is so much more complex and it actually doesn't serve anybody's purpose to make this about AIPAC because it's about the policy"
Ben-Ami Agenda: Let's play the "complexity" card, as it has worked so well in general when dealing with Americans' perception of Israel. "This issue is just so damn complex, you neophytes don't need to worry yourselves thinking about it; you'll never get your goyisher kops around it. In addition, let's not blame AIPAC, let's blame the 'policy.'" The fact that AIPAC drives the "policy" escapes his scrutiny, or at least what he is willing to say publicly.
"it's about what's best for Israel, it's about what's best for the United States."
Ben-Ami Agenda: Well, that's pretty plain to all here. Israel before America. Israeli interests trump American interests. What's best for Israel comes before what's best for America.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ben-Ami is an AIPAC plant. AIPAC-lite. The shite stain can't be wiped off AIPAC – too many people know. Let's put our eggs in another, more friendly-looking basket.
PM
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/998413.html
Jerusalem syndrome
By Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff
Tags: east jerusalem, israel
During the years prior to the Six-Day War, divided Jerusalem was rife with the phenomenon of the "mad Jordanian": A soldier from the Arab Legion suddenly and with no apparent reason began taking shots at civilians on the Israeli side of the borders.
The Jordanians said that the man was crazy and in that way absolved themselves from any responsibility for his acts. Hussam Duwiyat, the terrorist who ran amok with a bulldozer in the middle of Jerusalem – and his neighbor, Ala Abu-Dahim, who murdered eight students at the Mercaz Harav yeshiva four months ago – appear to be a Palestinian incarnation of the same modus operandi.
The Shin Bet security service agents who arrived at the home of the terrorist's family in Sur Baher in East Jerusalem, are now looking for clues as to the motive behind the deed.
…
J Street's got it right. You've got it wrong.
It has its OWN positions, that are independant of AIPAC's, not by definition opposed, nor by definition supportive.
Not AIPAC's. Not mine. Not YOUR's. Not the left's. Not Walt/Mearsheimer's. Not the left/right's.
Have you been taking heat for your statements of ANY appreciation of J Street or even AIPAC?
Does it effect your journalistic independance?
I don't think you have that right, Phil. J Street's goal is not to lobby Aipac. That seems a foolish organizational mission. And I wouldn't necessarily take what Jeremy Ben Ami says publicly as Gospel in terms of what J Street's true agenda is. Can J Street say publicly that it sees Aipac as its opponent? Of course not.
But this is a battle for the political soul of American Jewry. We can't let Aipac win this. J Street is one vehicle, & hopefully an effective one, for moderating the Amer. Jewish voice regarding the I-P conflict.
Richard Silverstein, I always seem to agree with your point-of-view.
j street?
aipac?
this jew wants to sit at an outdoor cafe with a jerry seinfeld and enjoy arabic coffee and have an enlightened and humorous conversation without an arab any where nearby.
that jew wants the wall to take more than all.
this jew that jew the same. disagree on most effective way to deceive.
"moderating the Amer. Jewish voice regarding the I-P conflict."
the jewish american(or traitors in camouflage) voice should be silenced.
not "I-P conflict" but jewish assault/war on palestinians.
like i said: "this jew that jew the same."
They should both be registered as foreign lobbiests. Why is that so objectionable to Israeli supporters? Just play by the rules that every other country plays by.
Why the f–ing exception for Israel?
"Why the f–ing exception for Israel?" -Madrid
by jewish definition, israel/jewry is exceptional – the exception.
The Israel High Court has asserted a few years ago that the view from a bulldozer cockpit was quite blurred;in the case of an operator inadvertently kicking a flashy red dressed girl,some inattention was to blame.
So please Mr.Witty don't hold Hussam Duwiyat responsible for driving his tractor not any better than an elite IDF officer.
His hitting a bus and a couple of cars was hardly intentional;who knows?
Admittedly,his recklessness should have got him a few NIS 18 tickets.
Like one of those labour unions that's not anti-management…
The organized Zionist Jewry "nation within a nation" by any name — AIPAC, J Street, the ADL, the JDL, whatever — is always going to have the same problem: it is inherently a foreign nation pursuing its own (Israelite) interests at the expense of host nations.
Masking this, no matter how flowery the professed agenda and rhetoric, is in the long run impossible. The nation within a nation has succeeded in America thus far by operating primarily under the radar, and shouting down critics with accusations of irrational anti-Semitism. But now that its agenda (Greater Israel, using America to crush Israel's enemies) is the focal point of the country, it can no longer get away with keeping a low profile, and its defense tactics are being overwhelmed by the growing masses of America-firsters.
US Jews, time to choose: either you are with the Israelite nation within a nation interests, or you are with American interests. If the latter, you should cease all contact with all Zionist organizations (including Zionist synagogues) immediately, as they serve foreign interests at the expense of your (American) own. If the former, you should probably start making plans to make aliyah, not because of pogroms, but because your ability to live a lie and have it both ways is quickly coming to an end, as deep down you probably always knew it would. You're only doing damage to America, which has been so good to the Jews, and to your own soul. Only bad things can follow for someone who puts themselves in such a position.
Bantam, are you trying to justify one crime by an alleged justification of another?
By the way, bulldozers are not driven by elite IDF officers. The driver was either a simple (non-combat) soldier or a citizen paid by the IDF, I have to check in this particular case. The Rachel Corrie case is terrible and shameful. I do not kid myself for a second: the driver could have intentionally run over her. But courts are supposed to prove that a premeditated murder took place and I believe that in this case there was no way of proving it (if you are aware it, let me know, I'll take my words back.) The fact that there wasn't a big fuss about it in Israel, that the family was not offered apologies by all the country, that many people secretly or even openly cheered at Rachel's death – all this is indeed painfully shameful.
Ed, you forgot to define American interest again. Jews that talk of struggle against occupation and just solution in Palestine – including against bad influences in the Jewish community itself are acting pretty much in American interest, I would think. By your formula are they supposed to just ignore the issue of Israel altogether?
thank you paul malfara:
Ben-Ami Agenda: Let's play the "complexity" card, as it has worked so well in general when dealing with Americans' perception of Israel. "
i would say the above is this year's talking point. like last year's was "shoddy scholarship"
America's interests are rarely defined or discussed by those that criticize the "Israel lobby".
That would give some criteria to actually prove or dispel the assertion, which is the last thing that someone habitually condemning wants.
This has nothing to do with condemning or condoning (once again, I find Witty's post (intentionally?) opaque).
It has to do with what is expected of each and every other country that lobbies the US government, whether it be the UK or Saudi Arabia. That is, that their lobbying arms register as entities that are lobbying on behalf of a foreign gov't.
Next time, my representative has a town meeting, I'm going to ask him that question– why the Israel lobby is not required to register as a foreign lobby. Not that I'll get anything like a straight answer.
Last time I went to a meeting was during the Lebanon war, and my congressman had all the facts wrong. He did not seem to know the difference between Hamas and Hezbollah, but he professed a love for Israel that, he claimed, was unique in his life. He claimed to love Israel from the bottom of his heart–he literally went on for about 10 minutes, talking about his deep and abiding love for Israel.
The funny thing: his religion is Catholicism, and when I asked him why he doesn't love the 100,000's of Catholics dispossessed since the Israel conquest, he claimed that it was really Muslims who had driven the Catholics out.
This is what we are up against, and this is why things will not change until the economy collapses, and independent minded states like Oregon/ Washington and Vermont start attempting to secede permanently from the nation. Only then will things change, and the change, when it comes, may not be for the better, unfortunately.
Peter D: “Jews that talk of struggle against occupation and just solution in Palestine – including against bad influences in the Jewish community itself are acting pretty much in American interest”
Most of these are anti-Zionist leftists, with a smattering of anti-Zionist America firsters moving away from the harebrained idea of a internationalist utopia, like Phil. As for the others, that’s all they do: talk. I have yet to see US organized Zionist Jewry exercise any hard power on behalf of a just solution, and it never will. If one is a Zionist, one cannot pursue a just solution while maintaining a Zionist identity because the only truly just solution is an ending American financial, military and political support for Zionism, and letting the chips fall where they may. How many US Zionists will ever advocate that?
Can theoretical arguments be made by Jewish Zionists that variations of the implementation of Zionism can parallel American-interest policy? Yes, but the track record on those types of arguments and the people who make them is clear: a Jewish Zionist network was instrumental (“decisive” as Walt and Mearsheimer put it) in lying America into the Iraq war, is trying to lie America into a war against Iran, and has done so out of a pursuit of Israelite interests at the expense of American ones. Everything any Jewish Zionist network does at this point is suspect.
Besides, why bother with the Talmudic word games and intellectual parsing? A Zionist is a Zionist is a Zionist, and belongs in Israel. Organized Jewry may have a place in America, but only under an anti-Zionist or neutral identity, in the same way that organized Islam may have a place in America, but only under an anti-caliphate or neutral identity. If a network of caliphate Muslims lied America into war on behalf of the agenda of using US troops to establish an Islamic caliphate in the Mideast, I would argue that they belong in an Islamic country, too.
The difference is, caliphate Muslims don't have anywhere near the amount of money for the political policy and power it buys in corrupt Washington as do Jewish Zionists, nor have they infiltrated the establishment yet, and so couldn’t pull off such a scenario. But if it did, an Islamic caliphate network probably would have been long deported by now, or imprisoned and executed for treason.
Jewish Zionists in the network that lied America into the Iraq war should consider themselves lucky to be able to immigrate to Israel unmolested. But their time may be growing short.
".. J Street's prime objective isn't to counteract AIPAC–say by speaking out about the settlements or dividing Jerusalem or the occupation. No, J Street truly does not trust American Jewry enough to take those stands (and you can understand, when 58 percent of American Jews are against dividing Jerusalem). AIPAC sets policy; and so, J Street's primary objective is to lobby AIPAC."
Excatly. J-Street actually is a lobby group committed to the concept of advocating the interests of that other Israel. The Israel of working people who are taxed to the tune of 60% of their income, The Israel of mothers & fathers who are asked to sacrafice their sons and daughters on the altar of the state so that protection and comfort may be afforded to kahanist misfits and malcontents. For an Israel reconciled to the concept of a two-state solution. For the Israel, as Arik Einstein put it, where the only war we want to fight is with the electric company. Yes an ISRAELI advocacy group as opposed to AIPAC which is actually an American Jewish advocacy group concerned with maintaining and increasing American Jewish power and influence in America rather than any regard for Israel or Israelis. If Israel wants to speak with the US gov't they will have to do so through AIPAC, regardless of such childish and knaive gimmicks as "J-Street"
"The truth is so much more complex and it actually doesn't serve anybody's purpose to make this about AIPAC because it's about the policy – it's about what's best for Israel, it's about what's best for the United States."
Of course J Street is just a shell game! Even in this quotation, what's best for Israel is the first thought. I'm beginning to believe that putting Israel and Jewish interests first is ingrained in many Jews- the same can't be said of Christian Zionists, no matter how misgiuded they are.
I just love the part about how complicated the issue is. Paul also mentioned this, and I heard the same line in Israel whenever the issue of the Palestinians came up- as if the issue is just too complicated intellectually and spiritually for the non-Jew to handle.
The talk was usually given with a soulful and ultra-intelligent expression along with plenty of hand gestures, and became a joke among the people I knew for the rampant phony intellectualism of the shyster.
I think it's quite clear that the Holocaust is far more complicated than is usually admitted, but would the average Jew acknowledge that, or give even innocent Germans (or anyone else) a pass? I think not!
If J Street were serious, they would lobby congress in order erase the ability of AIPAC to smear congressmen, and to give some room for congressmen to maneuver away from AIPAC. If J Street were serious, they would take aim at AIPAC in order to destroy the entire organization. Neither will happen, because J Street is a sham.
Lobby AIPAC! Is that a f#@*#@g joke? Is AIPAC an arm of the government now?
Shoded Yam: “AIPAC… is actually an American Jewish advocacy group concerned with maintaining and increasing American Jewish power and influence in America rather than any regard for Israel or Israelis.”
Perhaps, but the cause-célèbre that unites the Jewish Zionists of which AIPAC is comprised, that animates them and gives them a pretext to extract money from US taxpayers, is Israel. And the Israeli government works hand in glove with AIPAC. It’s similar to a Medicare or Medicaid scam, where corrupt doctors work with corrupt “patients” to rip us all off, only in this case the stakes are much higher, because part of the scam involves lobbying the US into ongoing war. Without the patients, the doctors couldn’t pull the scam, and vice-versa.
Again, the only long-term answer is deporting (or jailing) the most trenchant criminal Jewish Zionists, and maintaining a Zionist-neutral policy going forward.
over the last two years i have evolved in my views to the point where i do not see any just reason for israel to exist as a jewish state. in 100 years, people will look back on it like they do now on the civil war. of course it was about slavery and slavery was evil.huge numbers of words were wasted on slavery also. beyond all the twisting and turning of rationalization that yes, get very complex, it is wrong. this situation is the same. i have some sympathy for jews who were brought up with the emotional attachment to a jewish state. in 100 years, people will say, "how could they do this?" , it is so blatantly wrong from top to bottom. i have a feeling that phil's dedication to the truth has led inexorably to the conclusion for readers ( and for him?) that not only is israel unjust and wrong but all the supporters are as well. they could still have some sort of fog in their vision blinding them, but somewhere inside them , they know, it's just plain wrong. it is most definitely not "complex".
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