Rabbi Michael Lerner went to a conference on “dialogue” in Saudi Arabia and was impressed by the humanity of the Saudis. He has filed this long report on a dinner table conversation he had with several members of Saudi King Abdullah’s cabinet. The highlight is when Lerner speaks of Israel’s fears of being obliterated by the Iranians and the ministers are dumbfounded.
Incredulously, they asked if any Jews in
the US believed that that was possible. I responded that such fears
were frequently voiced in the organized Jewish community, though many
younger Jews did not share that fear.At this point, the Saudis were so astounded they almost lost interest
in the conversation. They found it impossible to believe that anyone
could believe that Israel was in any danger of destruction. Israel,
they pointed out to me, had close to two hundred nuclear bombs–no
state would dare seek to destroy Israel for fear of being wiped off the
face of the earth.
Similarly, they perceived Iranian threats from
Ahmadinejad to be a joke, since everyone knew that Iran did not have
any nuclear capacity whatsoever and was unlikely to have anything in
the next decade.
Many of the Saudis at the table felt that at this Wonderful reporting. Some other points in Lerner’s piece: the Saudis are justifiably irritated that no one has advanced the Arab nations’ initiative of 2002 or so to return to the ’67 borders and call it a draw. Lerner says the ’67 borders are impossible because of the Western Wall. The Saudis say, Jerusalem is negotiable. Lerner keeps hammering the Saudis about why they haven’t done more to improve conditions in Palestinian refugee camps. I don’t know about that issue. The conditions of Jews in Displaced Persons Camps in 1947 in Europe was an important impetus for the U.N. decision to declare a Jewish state in the Arab world, something the Arab world did not want. And yes I know, in my clement mood yesterday, I said that a pagan worldview instructs us to live where we live, not to think about where our grandparents lived. But why isn’t Lerner pushing for Nakba reparations?
point they were listening to a typical Israeli propagandist (me) and
that there was no point in continuing to talk since they believed that
I knew and all Israelis and Jews knew that there was no possibility of
Israel ever getting destroyed by the weak Arab or Islamic world, and
that taking such concerns seriously were about as rational as thinking
that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
Myself I have heard good things about
King Abdullah. Says an Arab friend: “Even before he was King he was
popular because, unlike his brothers, he
was viewed as incorruptible. To this day none of his sons is known to
have a private plane, while many of their cousins have huge palaces and
private planes that were funded from commissions on Government
contracts or land grabs.“ Lerner seems to echo that mood:
there is a modernizing elite that sees
those reactionary aspects of their own society as equally problematic,
and hopes to change that (indicated to me in many comments made during
the two hours we sat together and which I’ve only partially summarized
here).I am not an advocate for the Saudi regime, but I now see its humanity,
the fundamental decency of some who are engaged in an effort to “reform
from within,” and am reminded once again of how ridiculous it is to
talk about a whole society as though it represented a single
perspective or shared a single worldview, the need to work with the
most progressive elements, and the need to avoid “Othering the Other.”
The world is changing. The old alliances are crumbling. The old religions have outlived their usefulness.
A couple of things always intrigued me about the Saudi's. How much money do they spend on casino's and blond hookers? Do they spend anything on toilet paper. And when they buy kids form south Asia to be camel jockeys in the races does a kid belong to the family, maybe the stable, or is he below the camel on the Saudi social ladder.
Philip, did you see this article in Haaretz today:
Still no mention by the big guy about his boy. Samir( hell on earth for 4 yr old Jewish girls ) Kuntar. And his hero's welcome in Lebanon. At least I know that martillo and Ed, and all the rest of your guys think that he did a service for humanity, but what of Phil.
Great work by Lerner. Now you wee why the Zionists are so adamant that we should not talk to our "enemies". The public might see they're not really our enemies after all — only Israel's.
Tracy, very interesting link . Thanks.
hatred and bitterness is at the root of todays ashkanazi zionist american jews who defend israel knowing what goes on there.
the rest of american jewry only knows the myth….when the myth gets demythified then israel will be all alone.
as ive said before, the only difference between being considered a hero or a criminal is power.
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"A couple of things always intrigued me about the Saudi's. How much money do they spend on casino's and blond hookers?"
Not as much as the Israelis.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/913584.html
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/01/bloomberg/bxvegas.php
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=820798&contrassID=25&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1
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This is too good to leave at the end of yesterdays thread.
………………………………….
It's like a porn movie about the end of empire.
*** "Babylon Backfire" with Gideon Fuego ***
Israel/the United States as "America."
Mr. Baracka, Sgt. McClam, and the media as themselves.
And introducing Philip Weiss, a courageous, conscientious old journo, slowly being reduced to doing low budget political porno for cult leader Mr. Baracka, so that one day he can buy a ticket to the only game in town.
Extras: All of us, as all of us.
Some nudity. Foul language. Graphic rape.
Tagline: "Now America's broken."
Posted by:MM | July 22, 2008 at 12:50 PM
Israel is the whorehouse of the Middle East and they love their shika blondes:
shiksa
@ SOB
The difference between the readers of this blog and you is that -I venture to guess- they feel empathy towards all victims, not exclusively those belonging to their groups, by the way a notion some have worked long and hard to destroy among the goyim.
You will find no one here condoning Kuntar's murders, especially the Israelis' version (the evil German or Pole or Ukrainian or whatever smashing children's heads has been a favorite among Holocaust scenarists,and apparently still is).
Since the 30 years this happened, how many children lives have been savagely smashed by the noble & gallant IDF?
Thousands, tens of thousands?
More?