Two journalists liken Israel’s radical settlers and its orthodox haredim to the Taliban.
Antony Loewenstein, Aussie anti-Zio:
The aim of these extremists is to establish a Taliban-style, rabbinical state to replace the current “secular” Israel. It may seem like a pipedream to most — not least the vast majority of Israelis who oppose the occupation project — but the attempt to uproot any major settlement blocs will incur a vicious response. A civil war between the state and radical Zionists is not unlikely in the years to come. And Israel will only have itself to blame.
One hotly debated example of ultra-orthodox assertiveness came during a ceremony marking the opening of a bridge in June. The organisers had asked a troupe of girls aged between 13 and 16 to perform a dance routine, but shortly before the show Jerusalem’s ultra-orthodox deputy mayor intervened. Denouncing the planned dance as “promiscuous”, he ordered the dancers to cut out certain moves and wear demure robes that conformed to the Haredi modesty code.
Small as it was, the affair provoked a national outcry. Commentators spoke of the ultra-orthodox “Taliban”, comparing the strictures imposed by the Jerusalem town hall to the hardline views of Islamic fundamentalists in Afghanistan and Iran.
Controversy returned a few weeks later when Gordon Brown, the British prime minister, gave a speech to the Knesset, Israel’s parliament. So as not to offend ultra-orthodox deputies, the choir that
Related posts:
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- Fear of the Pakistani Taliban, and of the ‘Gaza solution’
- ‘In Peshawar, Taliban Country, All 4 of My Sisters Got Master’s Degrees’
- Jewish State’s Next War–Between Ultra-Orthodox and Secular
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'What is happening in Israel? And why is it taking the U.S. so long to cotton to it?'
Because it's media is owned and operated primarily by Israel-firsters, or those who wouldn't dream of crossing them. And because it's politicians are also owned and operated by Israel-firsters, where they are not owned and operated by the MI complex (some answer both descriptions). Each potential entry point into the US thru which information about Israel could be promulgated widely is manned by the Lobby and anything potentially embarrassing is either cleansed of all dangerous import, or simply strangled at birth.
Plus the place seems stuffed to the gills with downstream or basement Lobby types like Ralph Seliger and Richard Witty who patrol the blogs and don't see a problem with Israeli behaviour(or pretend not to, or try to neuter it with pitiful attempts at moral equivalence) and call you an anti-semite if you do.
But this is a time of changes and the chaos to come will embolden people to clear their throats in ways they'd not have considered a very short while ago. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say.
My only question: What is happening in Israel? And why is it taking the U.S. so long to cotton to it?
That's an easy one. This is nothing especially new or important. Religious Jews, like other communities (Arabs, Druse, etc.) are enforcing their customs locally as they've always done. The only "new" thing here (new in the sense of the last decade or two) is that the haredim pretty much control Jerusalem.
The old "secular-religious civil war" chestnut is last decade's news as well. My guess is that this cliche first became popular in the 1970s with the rise of Gush Emunim. The cliche pretty much disappeared after September 2000, but this Lowenstein guy seems to be going for a revival. Since 2000 it's been clear to most Israelis that the strongest divisions in the state of Israel, as in most of the modern world, are national, not creedal.
This comparison is off.
If you're looking for the Israeli equivalent of a religiously murderous movement willing to murder innocent civilians in cold-blood in order to achieve stupid and silly political goals inspired by dogma handed down through books of patent nonsense centuries-old, then you should look no further than the Zionist movement itself. The settlers are merely the most overt part of this movement, but they are fundamentally no different from the Zionist pioneers and their supporters. Or Al-Qaeda.
I go two ways on this one.
On the one hand, I bristle at reactionary group politics of any kind.
On the other hand, the fact that ultra-Orthodox fertility spells the death-knell of the secular Ashkenaz Zionist elite…well, that's not so bad.
On top of that, I think it's still worth distinguishing between the real Haredim (still, if I understand correctly, anti-Zionist) and the so-called religious Zionists.
http://www.antiwar.com/avnery/?articleid=13525
"During the last months, there has been a marked increase in the number of incidents in which settlers attack Palestinians, soldiers, policemen, and "leftists."
These acts are committed openly, in order to terrorize and deter. Settlers riot in the Palestinian villages whose lands they covet, or for revenge. These are "pogroms" in the classical sense of the term: riots by an armed mob intoxicated with hatred against helpless people, while the police and the army look on. The Pogromchiks destroy, injure, and kill. These days it is happening more and more frequently.
In the few cases when the army or the police intervene, they do not turn on the settlers, but on the Israeli peace activists who come to help the beleaguered Palestinian farmers. The spokesmen of the security establishment and the commentators try to sound balanced and speak about "rioters from the Left and the Right." That is a false evenhandedness, which itself belongs to the fascist arsenal of tricks."
“What I am saying to you now has not been said by any Israeli leader before me,” Mr. Olmert told the newspaper Yediot Aharonot in the interview on the occasion of the Jewish new year, observed from Monday evening till Wednesday evening. “The time has come to say these things.”
He said that traditional Israeli defense strategists had learned nothing from past experiences and that they seemed stuck in the considerations of the 1948 war of independence.
ehud speaks article on the new yawk times.
“With them, it is all about tanks and land and controlling territories and controlled territories and this hilltop and that hilltop,” he said. “All these things are worthless.”
He added, “Who thinks seriously that if we sit on another hilltop, on another hundred meters, that this is what will make the difference for the State of Israel’s basic security?”
I recall signs in orthodox neighborhoods of Jeruslem threatening anyone who is improperly dressed. I wonder if the threats are carried out, and what they consist of?
I think that's an insult to the highly organized and regulated Taliban.
The psycho settlers are more like how small feral groups interact, with random violent acts of dominance over the other.
Posted by Todd: I wonder if the threats are carried out, and what they consist of?
FROM HAARETZ:
VIDEO / Ultra-Orthodox 'Modesty Guard' suspected of beating Jerusalem woman
By Haaretz Staff and Channel 10 – August 7, 2008.
A group of men who police suspect were hired by an ultra-Orthodox gang recently broke into a Jerusalem woman's home and beat her because they deemed her immodest.
The so-called "Modesty Guard" is suspected of being behind the incident. The gang has been known to unleash extortion, mercenaries, violence and surveillance on less religious Jews they deem sacrilegious. They claim to do it all in the name of God.
The incident may be one of a string of signs of rising ultra-Orthodox violence. Last year, five Haredi Jews assaulted a woman and an Israel Defense Forces soldier because they sat next to one another on a Jerusalem bus.
VIDEO- http://www.haaretz.com:80/hasen/spages/1009580.html
John, I was never sure how serious the threat was, but obviously some of the orthodox are willing to carry it out.
I was with a friend who was wearing what I would call modest shorts, and he took the posted warnings and angry looks as a sign to change clothes in an alley. I thought he was being a baby, but maybe not.
Todd, your friend in the "modest shorts" (a contradiction in terms) was very stupid or very rude, or maybe both. The classic Ugly American. You don't just barge right in to a foreign community without learning at least their most basic mores and taboos.
Once again, to everyone: There is no "rising tide" of haredi violence. These kinds of incidents have been reported for decades. And it's nothing special about the haredim. Try having a woman dressed like a typical Israeli walk through an Israeli-Arab village and see what happens. That's how life is outside of New York or Tel Aviv. You Americans need to stop being so sheltered and parochial.
Ploni, he had no idea that he crossed into an area where wearing shorts is forbidden until he saw the signs. Luckily he had his backpack with him, and he changed. He was dressed no differently than our Israeli hosts usualy dressed, and may have even been wearing a pair of shorts that they had given him.
I'm all for respecting local traditions, but threatening an obvious teen tourist because he is wearing shorts on a very hot day is worse than rude. He was a Brit, not an American.
Ugly Americans? I've never understood the contempt that many Israelis and zionists have towards Americans. Hopefully you guys will soon live in total isolation with your aging nukes and other weapons on your tiny piece of land.
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