Are there reasons to care about newspapers? Yes, and here is one. A triumph of reporting by the Washington Post's Jonathan Finer, from Zaytoun, Gaza, reconstructing the deadly cordoning of the Samouni family by Israeli soldiers a week into the "war", because their houses were in a strategic location. 92 family members are incarcerated. 29 die. Which is why we don't call it a war on this site, but an assault. Finer's exploration was on the front page of the Washington Post today. The world is changing. I believe it was the Washington Post that a few weeks back celebrated as one of the finest books of the year the military history, 1948, by Benny Morris–a work of historical archaeology that pointedly refused to interview Arabs about their experience of the Nakba. Here Finer has interviewed many many Arabs. (Phil Weiss)
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NPR's Eric Westervelt also did a story on today's "Morning Edition," stupidly entitled,
"Fate Of One Family Illustrates Gaza War's Ferocity"
–conveniently calling a massacre a "War" and leaving out the [Israeli] identity of the "Feroci[ous]" killers.
The story gave the bare facts, but then added the traditional, cynical "false equivalency":
'Attorney Jonathan Drimmer is a war-crimes expert and former top prosecutor for special investigations and war crimes in the U.S. Justice Department.
"You must permit the treatment of civilians who are injured or even noncombatants who are injured. You must permit them medical care," he says.
Drimmer says information available so far suggests that serious violations of the rules of war were committed by both sides. The case against Hamas, Drimmer says, seems clear-cut.
"I think there is no question that Hamas did violate the rules of war by firing indiscriminately into civilian areas. They've done it over a substantial period of time, deliberately targeting civilian areas," he says.
Drimmer says the allegations against Israel — including charges the army used disproportionate force, failed to protect civilians and denied them medical care — all warrant further investigation.
"Anytime you have allegations of summary executions, of denial of medical care, of unnecessary deaths of civilians, it is greatly troubling; it is exactly what the laws of war are designed to prohibit," he says.'
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99889479
Calling it a 'war' is bad enough, but I find calling it 'Operation Cast Lead' absolutely intolerable.
"Drimmer says the allegations against Israel — including charges the army used disproportionate force"
Use of disproportionate force in war is not a crime anywhere.
It's not quite the same as stoning a woman to death, as they do in many Arab countires, nor cutting off the hand of a thief, also an islamic practice. That's disproportionate force.
the Los Angeles Times ran a Gaza story a few days ago about another family in Zeitoun who were ordered out and then fire upon while they left. A 1-year-old child died.
Use of disproportionate force in war is not a crime anywhere
It is an internationally indictable war crime carrying the maximum penalty of death, according to the geneva conventions, but who cares about them, eh? Myths about hudud punishments give so much more salacious pleasure, don't they, chris?
By the way, chris, how do you like them electric chairs, that apparently fry people slowly to death? and them lethal injections, that apparently fill the victims' veins and arteries gradually with burning caustic, which takes minutes to reach the heart and stop it, all without benefit of the prior anaesthetic that is supposed to be included in the 'cocktail'? How do you like them electric belts the wardens make prisoners wear in US penitentiaries, which they can use to super-taser the prisoners any time they want? The CHILD prisons, run by private firms, that rape the children? That USA, it's quite a 'beacon of democracy', isn't it?
Use of disproportionate force in war is not a crime anywhere.
It's not quite the same as stoning a woman to death, as they do in many Arab countires, nor cutting off the hand of a thief, also an islamic practice. That's disproportionate force.
Could you explain what justifies the parallel construction?
Is it only the expression of sadness? Not so easy to give up the elation that the War on Terror/the Clash of Western civilization with them Muslims/Arabs produced?
I have never heard about stoning or the cutting off of hands in Palestine. But you are surely are well informed, right?
Parallel constructions require justification? I've never seen you or anyone else chanllange the same type message from pro-islamic nationalist posters.
That you've never heard of stoning or cutting off hands in the region known as palestinian may very well be an honest claim of ignorance. I suggest you research Ottoman empire history.
Of course, do you wish me to post gory "Honor killing" articles?
region known as palestinian
I am talking about Judea and Samaria and Gaza, and you know.
Judea and Samaria? I'm sure that 2000 years ago, it was probably a very common punishment in most regions of the world.
Well, what exact period are you talking about?
An American Jew from Florida in 2002-3 told me that there is no Palestine. Palestine is Jordan, and what I was talking about was Judea and Samaria.
But what period are you talking about. None of the Palestinians I met or read, told me about stoning or cutting off of hands in take your choice: Palestine/Judea & Samaria.
So would you please enlighten me. Links please. Or Wikipedia would do.
According to the Jewish Oral Law, after the Jewish criminal has been determined as guilty, the two valid witnesses and the sentenced criminal go to the edge of a high place. From there the two witnesses are to push the criminal off. After the criminal has fallen, the two witnesses are to drop a large boulder onto the criminal. Then any people in the surrounding area are to quickly cause him to die by stoning with whatever rocks they can find.
Are you skilfully moving the discussion away from the Israeli war crimes in Gaza last week into the hair spliting about the sharia law in other parts of the world?
Well done.
But 29 members of one family were killed and the several people died and children were starving on the corpses of their mothers while Israeli soldiers stood idly by.
Can we ask the megaphonies to send us someone whose head is not planted so far up their own tailpipe? It's clear the oxygen is being cut off from their brain.
~
All American Jews from Florida are considered experts on the subject? Am I to believe anecdotal information is truth?
It certainly appears to me, based on Mandate Palestine directly following WWI, that Palestine includes the land that was separated in 1922 and then named Transjordan. As that was 75% of the land, it seems to reason that it is palestinian. As approx 70% of the citizens claim palestinian descent, as does the Royal family, it stands to reason the Jordan, by any other name, is Palestine.
Why would any Palestinian you ever met discuss punishments for theft or adultery? Did you consider both and wonder out loud what punishment you would receive if caught?
The idea that Israel's only crime was that it used "disproportionate force" is itself a cockeyed notion. Israel always asks what would the US do if terrorists were firing rockets at us from Mexico or Canada. Well the short answer is the US would never treat Canada or Mexico so badly that organized terrorists would spring up there to do this to us.
If Israel doesn't want the Palestinians to fight back, it might consider not walling them in, cutting off their food, water and fuel, confiscating their land and houses and using checkpoints to humiliate them and block their right to travel. Israelis wouldn't tolerate it if someone took their houses, diverted their water and cut down their olive groups. Why do they think Palestinians would tolerate it, unless Israelis really do think of themselves as the chosen people?
As for the Israeli notion that enough rockets and bombs will force the Palestinians to accept their status as an inferior defeated people, well good luck with that.
chris berel is right. Why should anyone deny the right of world-wide jewry
to take over the land of people guilty for just being there for centuries?
Kudos to you, chris berel, for shitting on the anti-semites.
All American Jews from Florida are considered experts on the subject? Am I to believe anecdotal information is truth?
He was a reader of an academic (H)list on antisemitism, I am still subscribed to. I have the habit to contact people privately off-list, if some of their statements make me wonder. No, I didn't invent the person. I even remember I looked up his name up on the web and thus learned in what field he worked. The only thing I have asked myself since then is, had he answered exactly the same way had I asked him ON the list, since then I could give you a link. As it is the exchange is only one one of my old backup drives.
I can assure you, by now I do not need any extra tuition on Israel and Palestine, especially not on the basics, I have read a lot since then.
Sharia Law in Palestine
Ah, I see, on Dec. 25. (convenient time) Al Hayat according to Israeli media and media watch Hamas intends to introduce Sharia Laws:
Jerusalem Post reports:
Why don't they write today? This is published on "Wednesday", Dec. 24th? So if we believe PMW, JP picks it up one day earlier and thus immediately on the same day. But instead we are given un unspecific "Wednesday"? Last Wednesday? Thus 17 Dec 2008? or maybe: 18 Dec 2008 + yesterday?
And the media watch report, talks of yesterday on 12/25/2008/(12/26/2008/)???) But both clearly give the impression Both Al Hayat reported about the adoption or close adoption and that Hamas only later denied.
Here is a machine translation of the Al Hayat article seems to suggest to me, that in fact to deny whatever leaked documents or rumor on exactly that day.
Interesting, don't you think? Sounds like the report of the denial to me.
I see, I see our friend is informed about strategic perception management campaigns. He even walks in the future. In his universe Sharia law already seem to exist for decades in Palestine.
I think Mondoweiss warrants being assigned a better hasbara operative than Chris.
Chris, do you think you could arrange a re-assignment?
You seem to be at a loss on how to script an inteligent reply. If I were with hasbara, it would seem that I'm all that's needed here.
chris Berel, there is no need to try and make pro Israel propaganda look flakey.
Most of the commenters here already see through it.
As Israel imposes Sharia courts on it's Muslim faith citizens, pointing out the evil of them is a bit hypocritical, don't you think?