Notwithstanding his record on the neverending "peace process" (12 years, during which colonization of the West Bank marched on), Dennis Ross is said to be on the inside track to become envoy on the Iran portfolio under Obama. Well, two years ago the ethnocentric institute that Ross chairs in Israel (the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute) offered a "master class" in which at least one participant issued the call, "Bring Ahmadinejad to Justice." Demanding that Iran's president be prosecuted for various statements and threats he's made.
The full argument is all on Dennis Ross's Israeli institute's website. That's fine. Everyone has their opinion. But is this the sort of ideological baggage America wants for a diplomat going to one of the biggest faultlines in the Middle East?
(Phil Weiss)
{ 51 comments }
The Cotler statement that is linked is particularly rich. First, the Iranian/Hizbollah connection to the Argentinian Jewish Community Center bombing is by no means proved. Gareth Porter has offered reasons why the connection is doubtful: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080204/porter
I wasn't aware of this most recent article until I just found it, but Porter and others have debunked this for quite some time.
Second, Argentinians have never been held accountable for the dirty war 1977-83 that took a disproportinate toll on (liberal, left, secular, professional) Jews. This has been partly attributed to the support of Israel and arms sales by Israel to the neo-Nazi regime (they're commonly referred to as neo-Nazi, but I must admit I don't know if they deserve the label any more than other regimes who aren't referred to in the same way).
Just another example where even Jews have to earn their right to be worthy victims. There is always politics behind how Jewish victims get treated, even in relation to the Holocaust, obviously. Jacobo Timmerman, of course, was a refugee from this period.
All of this course is just icing on the cake in terms of the outrageous nature of these claims against Iran.
The bigger issue that you're all missing is this: The Jewish Agency, which funds Dennis Ross's think tank, has been at the center of illegal West Bank colonization. Israeli prosecutor Talia Sasson issued a report on this back in 2005, the Forward has reported on it. etc. etc.
Can the US have a diplomat who is so hard wired into settlement building? If so, why not just hire Lev Leviev to negotiate with Iran?
My candidate for envoy is Roy Mottahedeh. He understands Iran.
I have no idea what his politics are. But he knows the place.
Another point to be made is that Ahmadinejad never called for Israel's physical destruction; rather, he prophetized the end of the Zionist regime.
That this lie can still stand after all this time is incredible.
It does not make much sense either: "GUYS ! I AM SO GOING TO ERASE YOUR COUNTRY ! But don't worry, this nuclear program is only for civilian use."
Really, how dumb and incoherent can people be ? Obviously, a secret urge to destroy a country would imply that Ahmadinejad refrains from publicly advocating a holocaust. If he did, then his whole plan would go to waste. Use your head dammit !
The whole point of Ross' appointment is because Israel DOES NOT want a fixed Iran-US relations. Can you imagine if US had to rely on Iran for regional security? The entire arab world also would hate that as well. Iran's oil and gas fields would threaten their interests and not to mention Russia as well. A pipeline from Iran through Turkey to europe could render Russia useless and threaten its interests in the region.
Many countries interest are at stake here.
Off-topic: France says Israel blocks water equipment for Gaza What is the security justification behind this? Does cholera-free water constitute a terrorist threat? I would like to see an unblinkered analysis of Israeli efforts to derail humanitarian assistance to Gaza.
"Ahmadinejad never called for Israel's physical destruction; rather, he prophetized the end of the Zionist regime."
Actually, it is even more distant from Ahmadi Najad than that! That was not even his thoughts or his words. When he said that he was merely quoting Khomeini's prophesy of the end of the Zionist regime.
Gaza assault a dress rehersal for an attack on Iran?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21878.htm
On CSPAN this morning they had a very rational nuanced guy, totally honest about the I-P situation, and not giving the Pals any leeway as to the terrorist constitution of HAMAS, who represented the American Arab Anti-Defamation Council. He was ASAP followed by a representative from The Israel Project, who was an outright liar
about the history of the region, and the minutia of fact sequence going down to the attack on GZA. The guy was such a liar it left me
speech-bound most of today. Totally one-sided narrative, and if you didn't believe everything he said, you were clearly anti-semitic and un-American. So much for "fair and balanced" and "context." Gaza destruction, for example, is only due to Palestinian rocket attacks. Nothing else. Zero, zilch. The Israel Project said if you don't believe him you are the problem the USA has to fight against. Similar on alleged facts, sequences, history of the area. He was really strident, harsh, his whole body shaking
as he loudly lied outright over and over…. God, it was depressing.
Going to be very hard to get the truth of the matter out to average Americans. I don't think it will ever get there until
after we are in a battle with Iran and other nations that find in the
end Iran is more useful to them than USAIsrael.
The mother of battles is coming. It has very much to do with
Zionist jews. Americans are tools of the first order and their
"democratically elected" government is a collective traitor, bought
off by American Jewish network to this end (not all American Jews). The crazy goy end-timers in cahoots are off the charts–
zealot nuts in the old sense of the term. Useful tools too. Nothing like 30 million evangelicals with their eyes focused on heaven partnering with the bulk of the world-wide jewish community who focus on this earth.
Actually, it appears that you are a tool being used by Jews to spread such malacious nonsense as to discredit all criticism.
You're doing that vry well.
Is someone paying you for this or are you an independant agent?
> Everyone has their opinion.
No. This is not opinion. These are assertions of fact.
And, they are lies.
They're inciting murder and arson, because the choir in the background incessantly chants, "Attack Iran, attack Iran." It's a package, a choreography.
Here, the lies you quote: (1) State sanctioned (2) incitement to genocide (3) publicly avowed (4) intent to acquire nuclear weapons for that purpose, as former President Akbar Hachemi Rafsanjani put it.
The truth: (1-2) The Iranian state advocates a one-state solution, and has done since 1979, the abolishment of the Israeli regime (its Zionist crimes) — not killing Jews, and that's why see zero quotations to support this endless lie. There are no such quotations, except falsified translations.
(3-4) Iran has never avowed an intent to acquire nuclear weapons, only the precise opposite, and if Akbar Hachemi Rafsanjani ever said any different I'd be real surprised. I haven't seen any such quote.
The U.S. constitution, the free speech amendment, does not protect lies, under any circumstances, lies add no value, to the market place of ideas, no other values are advanced by protecting lies. That's what the U.S. Supreme Court says. Elmer Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc., 418 U.S. 323 (No. 72-617, June 25 1974).
Therefore, the free speech restriction on incitement (that violence be imminent), that restriction does not apply to lies. To opinion, yes; to mistakes, yes; but to lies, no. (No case has ever considered this, as far as I know, but 2+2=4). And, of course, lies themselves are also separate crimes, on official business (lying to Congress, executive branch lying to itself) (e.g., 18 U.S.C. 1001).
So what we've seen the lobby do, the long, slow, patient, conspiracy of lies and liars, about Iran, with the goal of inciting theft, covert action (murder, arson), eventually war — this is a prosecutable violent criminal conspiracy and RICO criminal enterprise, that's the way I see it.
Their motive, it's not relevant, and I'm not a mind-reader, but it's obvious to me their motive is to create a threat, as an excuse to keep the U.S. largess flowing in, the arms, the U.N. vetoes (diplomatic support), and the $3-billion cash, the annual secret political slush fund (and a lot of that money surely never leaves the U.S., it fattens a lot of peoples' pockets). It doesn't matter who the contrived threat is, Netanyahu, he wasted no time positing Pakistan as a threat to Israel, jumping on board with Obama, who favors Pakistan, as the threat of the month.
The falsified translation you speak of was issued by the official Iranian news source.
Seems they stand by it.
Study: U.S. Jewry's willingness to strengthen Israel ties very low
By Cnaan Liphshiz, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Jewish World, Israel
Although American Jews and Israelis share a strong and mutual feeling of solidarity, U.S. coreligionists have a very low willingness to strengthen the relationship, according to a new study on the subject.
The Jewish Peoplehood research, whose findings will be presented on Tuesday at the Herzliya Conference, relies on questionnaires by some 3,000 Israelis and American Jews. Asked about the degree to which they feel connected to a Jewish brotherhood, both groups gave a similar answer which yielded an average score of 68 out of 100.
But the research also shows that Americans possess a drastically lower level of willingness than the Israelis' when it comes to strengthening the bond. While Israelis ranked 66, the Americans' average score was 32. "The emotional attachment that U.S. Jews have to Israel does not translate itself into willingness to act to strengthen this bond," the research states.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060342.html
> The falsified translation you speak of was issued by the official Iranian news source.
Seems they stand by it.
>
In that case, you'll have not the slightest difficulty, to post a link to it, to quote it, but I won't be holding my breath, because it doesn't exist.
chris, how much is Israel paying you for your Israel First verbiage?
More then they are paying you.
> The falsified translation you speak of was issued by the official Iranian news source.
Seems they stand by it.
>
In that case, you'll have not the slightest difficulty, to post a link to it, to quote it, but I won't be holding my breath, because it doesn't exist.
Posted by: CJHarwood-WarLaw
You can breathe easy now. Follow the link yourself. Took all of 30 seconds to find it.
From Amazon.com
Please note that the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting Network, which is owned by the government of Iran, still has an article up titled "Ahmadinejad: Israel must be wiped off the map," which begins: "Tehran, Oct 26 – Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday called for Israel to be "wiped off the map"."
http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=200247
If the translation "wiped off the map" is good enough for Iran's government-owned news agency, I wonder why there are people in the West who choose to be apologists for Ahmadinejad and cover up for him.
2005 "The World Without Zionism" Conference address
Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting IRIB News Network reported the following statements by Ahmadinejad on their website[1] :
IRIB News Department News Headlines 2005/10/26
Ahmadinejad: Israel must be wiped off the map
01:34:13 È.Ù Tehran, Oct 26 – Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday called for Israel to be "wiped off the map".
"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the President told a conference in Tehran entitled 'the world without Zionism'.
"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land," he said.
"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to the late founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Imam Khomeini.
Addressing some 4,000 students gathered in an interior ministry conference hall, Ahmadinejad also called for Palestinian unity, resistance and a point where the annihilation of the Zionist regime will come.
"The Islamic umma (community) will not allow its historic enemy to live in its heartland," he said.
Regarding the Zionist regime's retreat from the Gaza Strip he said, "we should not settle for a piece of land".
"Anyone who signs a treaty which recognises the entity of Israel means he has signed the surrender of the Muslim world," Ahmadinejad said.
"Any leaders in the Islamic umma who recognise Israel face the wrath of their own people."
Regarding the prolonged conflict between the Islamic Ummah and the Zionist regime, Ahmadinejad said "It dates backs hundreds of years. Sometimes Islam has advanced. Sometimes nobody was winning. Unfortunately over the past 300 years, the world of Islam has been in retreat".
"One hundred years ago the last trench of Islam fell, when the oppressors went towards the creation the Zionist regime. It is using it as a fort to spread its aims in the heart of the Islamic world."
Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting News Network Sponsored By IRIB News Computer Center. E-Mail: Info@IRIBNEWS.ir
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel
what a loser you are chris.
by the way wasn't "chris" a strange choice of internet name?
Colin in his comments mentions the possibility of cholera in Gaza. So far this has not been a problem. However some of Israel's policies during the blockade have certainly raised the danger of such an event.
It is not possible for anyone to predict that such an epidemic will occur. However, we do know that if two factors come together then the possibility of a devastating epidemic are possible. One is the complete breakdown between sewerage release and drinking water. The other is the introduction of a virulent cholera bacillus.
The most important factor is that drinking water and waste water streams are completely separated and, if not, that the waste water can be properly treated.
Many descriptions of Gaza mention the prevalent open sewers and sewerage holding ponds within those borders. So far Gazan drinking water has remained isolated from these contaminated sources and for those drinking water sources that have not been isolated, the local public health officials have water treatment procedures.
Here is the problem. Israel has been using the blockade to restrict the importation of water treatment facilities. This means the local public health workers are restricted in their ability to treat the local shallow aquifer (i.e. where locally released sewerage ends up) into drinkable water. The Israelis have already done this. 18 months back they restricted the importation of chlorine, but this insane policy was reversed by some more humane people within the Israeli government. Today we see efforts by some of the more crazed Israeli bureaucrats in preventing importation of other water treatment facilities. We can hope the same more enlightened Israelis will reverse these decisions.
So given this precarious state of the ability of the Gazans to purify their local water why hasn't there been any more severe outbreaks of serious water borne disease. Well, it is because Israel provides Gaza with fresh water (which BTW they are taking from clean West Bank aquifers — recall Peres, bragging about all that water Israel is giving for free to Gaza, well they are stealing it from the West Bank).
In any case I think we should be aware that the public health of the people of Gaza is completely controlled by Israel. If we see in the coming years a major cholera or other serious outbreak of enteric disease (E. coli, Shigella, Salmonella,) then it will be very clear who is responsible.
How bad could such an outbreak actually be? Before 1800 in Europe, cities with very high population densities (i.e. populations over 300,000) would have cholera epidemics that would kill 10% or more of the people. This occurred at a time when those cities were completely oblivious to the dangers of drinking sewerage contaminated water. If a similar event hit Gaza this would translate into over 100,000 deaths.
I do not believe that Israel would ever allow this to happen, but I am saying that Israel has complete control today over the safety of the drinking water supplies inside Gaza. Should any epidemic break out, we should know in advance who is responsible.
Chris, This is old. You're wrong. A good discussion of this whole thing is to be had on Wikipedia, where Juan Cole has the definitive say: "The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#.22Wiped_off_the_map.22_or_.22Vanish_from_the_pages_of_time.22_translation
chris, you love to defend impossible positions, defend the reference to Rafsanjani.
Change ™.
"The falsified translation you speak of was issued by the official Iranian news source."
Actually, it came from MEMRI, the uber-militant right-wing Zionist professional mistranslators of Arabic and Persian whose raison d'etre is to demonize Arabs and Muslims by going through the media with a fine-tooth comb, taking things out of context, and mistranslating or maliciously translating if necessary. They provide many if not most of the translations used by the mainstream U.S. media.
Here is an example of their work and how they used blatant mistranslation to make a Palestinian children's program infamous all over the United States (and not one American media outlet chose to verify their translation with a third party – not one):
Arabic: بدي أرسم صورة.
Correct translation: I will (or want to) draw a picture.
MEMRI version: I will shoot. [Note: There is absolutely no way to confuse the verb draw with the verb shoot - none. They are from two entirely different, completely unrelated roots that do not have even a single letter in common.]
Arabic: بدنا انقاوم.
Correct translation: We will (or want to) resist.
MEMRI version: We want to fight. [Note: The verb for fight is a completely different word from the one used here. A first year Arabic student would not make this mistake.]
Arabic: بطخّونا اليهود.
Correct translation: The Jews will shoot us. [something virtually every Palestinian child has experienced, or witnessed]
MEMRI version: We will annihilate the Jews. [Note: There is simply no way this is an honest mistake. Wrong verb, wrong subject, wrong object, wrong everything. A first-year Arabic student would not make this mistake.]
MEMRI is the source of most of the mistranslated and out-of-context versions of Ahmadi Najad's words that reach the American public.
"Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday called for Israel to be 'wiped off the map'."
Except that there is no expression in the Persian language that can be reasonably translated as "wiped off the map", nor was Ahmadi Najad "calling for" anything. He was repeating a commonly-quoted speech of Khomeini's made on Jerusalem Day in which Khomeini predicted that the regime ruling over Jerusalem would be erased from the pages of history. The call was for regime change in Jerusalem, not the destruction of Israel.
Furthermore, Ahmadi Najad does not have the authority or the power to take action against another state. That is not his role in the government.
Oh – and the Iranians denied the accuracy of the translation at least twice on American media.
However, I was mistaken in attributing the mistranslation to MEMRI. In this instance their translation was actually fairly accurate. My apologies for that. I should have double-checked to confirm the accuracy of my memory on this.
The official Iranian News service was the original source of the translation.
Not MEMRI.
Seems you fellows have lost this round.
But feel free to try again. I understand you have tons of propaganda to pull out of your nethers.
Yes, Chris, as I said, I should not have trusted my memory on this. MEMRI actually got it more or less right on this one. However, it is never a bad thing to present a solid example of MEMRI's typical work, so my mistake is not all bad.
And, Chris, if my examples from the Children's show are inaccurate, by all means correct me. Maybe you can explain to people here how it is possible to honestly mistake أرسم صورة for حطـُـخ. Or are you suggesting that my transcription is incorrect? If so, why not provide a link to the video along with your corrected transcription of the Arabic? It sure sounded like she said أرسم صورة to me, and that sounds absolutely nothing like حطـُـخ. But maybe my Arabic is just not good enough?
And regardless of the original source of the translation it is not an accurate representation of either the letter or the intent of what Ahmadi Najad said, or of the original words of Khomeini which he was quoting. And, as I said, the Iranian government corrected it at least twice on American media.
But this case was closed years ago. Don't you have any up-to-date talking points?
Sorry, make that بدي ارسم صورة. It's difficult to mix Arabic and English in these comment forms. I know you caught that mistake right away, Chris.
There is no need for anything up to date. The official Iranian news posted all that was needed back in 2005.
But using your memory as fact certainly cost you credibility points. Not that you actually had any.
Iran denies wanting to "wipe Israel off the map"
"WIPED OFF THE MAP" – The Rumor of the Century
word for word translation
bayad : should
az : from
safheh-ye : pages of
ruzgar : history
mahv : removed
shavad : be
This should be about Dennis Ross, not some lame attempt to lead everyone to bite a big Red Herring.
>> The official Iranian News service was the original source of the translation.Not MEMRI. Seems you fellows have lost this round.
No, Chris. The original speech did NOT translate as you and your brethen say. Shririn was only apologizing to attributing the mistranslation to MEMRI.
It remains that the original did NOT say "wipe Israel off the map." The Iranian news agency corrected their own bad translation soon after it was issued.
This can all be vetted quite indendently. A thousand native speakers have analysed it — again, refer to the Wiki link above. It did not say "wiped off the map."
This is a very old debate that was resolved for all thinking people quite some time ago. Why do you persist with a losing hand?
I expect you to do your homework and come back and apologize for wasting our time.
Sam
Everyone just got diverted from talking about this issue with a lame red herring.
This is an often forgot piece
The interview that Mike Wallace did of Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad 2 years ago was aired on C-Span recently, and a diligent blogger has reported on what "60 Minutes" cut out of the interview when it aired. When Wallace confronted Ahmadinejad with the "wipe Israel off the map" threats, Ahmadinejad said that "the solution is democracy" in Israel and Palestine, a suggestion that he favors a one-state solution. I agree with blogger Tom Murphy that "60"'s edits misrepresent Ahmadinejad's thrust, making him out to be far more confrontational than he is, especially after Wallace promised Ahmadinejad that he would listen to his complete answers to questions. And yes, that this amounts to "suppression of basic facts concerning Israel and the Palestinians."
Well, Chris, what do you have to say about the accuracy of my transcription and translation of that children's program? Still studying it? It's only a handful of words, but I can understand if you want to be sure.
Sorry, I haven't bothered listening. I'm still concerned about Iran's desire to wipe Israel of the map while it attempts to devise nuclear weapons.
yeah – "don't confuse me with the facts".
Why, Chris, I do believe you are outclassed here. Maybe you ought to talk to your handlers about sending someone in here who actually knows something.
chris approaches every single thread as if he thinks he's playing verbal table tennis.
Shirin is absolutely accurate about the correct translation of what Ahmadi-Najad said. Including the correct spelling.
Me always reminds me not to engage the Chris troll. So I pass his or her advice along.
"chris approaches every single thread as if he thinks he's playing verbal table tennis."
Without a paddle.
useful james petras article about gaza as a trial balloon for iran, here:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12106
I think what I find most distressing about the this whole current jewish program to subject the planet to thought control, is that it is obviously being directed by the brain of the un-dead Ariel Sharon, which they have wired up so that it hear speech, read texts and diagrams, and drive a voice generator, and which they are using as an oracle. It's so like them.
My handlers say that most of you are befuddled. That things are going well. That most of you are like Rowan.
you mean, well-versed in folklore?
I have been impressed by how transparently false MEMRI translations of colloquial Palestinian Arabic have been: What Sanabel Said.
Some material referring to Irwin Cotler:
.
I am equally impressed by the actual comment you made about yourself:
"but I am not a good judge"
One af the few true statements you have made.
I've parked a copy of James Petras' article "From Gaza to Tehran" here, and re-formatted it a bit for added clarity:
http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2009/02/01/james-petras-from-gaza-to-tehran/
The Petras article includes a list of the fifty-one member organisations in the CPMAJO, as Appendix #1.
Ah yes Dennis Ross,drum major for attack on Iraq. Having him handle negotiations with Iran would have been a JOKE. Those talks would have been designed to fail. That would have been the Israeli directive. What is even more worthy of consideration is the cost of Israel to the American Taxpayer. According to the Christian Science Monitor,Israel has cost the US $1.3 TRILLION since 1973
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