Jeff Blankfort writes:
I wouldn't pay much if any attention to the Al-Quds poll. It is a Fatah
[PA] organ that is not known for telling inconvenient truths. It had an English
edition until sometime
1993 when the editor, amazingly, asked his readers to
send him instances of PLO corruption. Arafat immediately closed the paper down
(just after I had renewed my subscription!) and it never reappeared.
An elderly Palestinian friend of mine who has a home in Ramallah and another on the San Francisco peninsula and divides him time between the two. He also has no use for religion of any sort. He was there during the Israeli onslaught on Gaza and came back claiming that Abbas and the PA, i..e., the Fatah leadership have absolutely no support after Abbas blamed Hamas for the war.
Palestinian public opinion is important but if the folks in the West Bank who see Fatah as collaborators are not likely to give an honest answer to a poll taken by its newspaper which may get your name placed on a list and turned over to the Israelis. I am sure none of your American readers know the background of Al Quds and, whether or not you take sides, I think you owe it to them to give them that historical background.
Palestinian public opinion is important but if the folks in the West Bank who see Fatah as collaborators are not likely to give an honest answer to a poll taken by its newspaper which may get your name placed on a list and turned over to the Israelis. I am sure none of your American readers know the background of Al Quds and, whether or not you take sides, I think you owe it to them to give them that historical background.
Weiss responds:
Fair enough, though I confess a little irritation here. As sympathetic as I am to Palestinian resistance to occupation and apartheid and slaughter, I live in New York. I'm an American who's trying to change my country's policy in a cycle of violence. I have spent 10 days there and I don't feel I can make determinations about what is reliable and what is not. I know American politics pretty well, but not theirs. I want to know what Palestinians want. I'm not going to dismiss anything published in Arabic and translated for me, which I can't read anyway. Etc.
So yes, Blankfort's giving you the background. And I'm trying to maintain some distance...
So yes, Blankfort's giving you the background. And I'm trying to maintain some distance...
he's confirming what I immediately said, and what 'blogger from lebanon' emphatically agreed with. You don't have to be agnostic about it, Phil.
Robert Fisk is not a bad source on the various levels of corruption within Fatah and how it affects life on the West Bank.
Jeffrey is correct in his assessment of Al-Quds. Despite this, I think Phil is right to not make a determination of the reliability of this survey and to allow others to speak on it. The particularities of factionalism in Palestinian society can be daunting. In all honesty I wouldn't expect any of my relatives in the West Bank to give a critique of a poll conducted by the Brookings Institute on the opinions of Americans on US military bases overseas.
Here is a video that more or less expresses the state of Israel's image at this point in time.
One would expect Blankfort to downplay a positive outcome of the Gazan spanking.
spanking??
Two question marks? Could you spare the ink?
Spanking?
See the film I mention above.
Its too easy to dismiss reports that don't fit your own prejudice.
Its not good when ANYONE does it.
http://www.antiwar.com/avnery/?articleid=14176
The Black Flag Is Waving
by Uri Avnery
A Spanish judge has instituted a judicial inquiry against seven Israeli political and military personalities on suspicion of war crimes and crimes against humanity. The case: the 2002 dropping of a one-ton bomb on the home of Hamas leader Salah Shehade. Apart from the intended victim, 14 people, most of them children, were killed.
For those who have forgotten: the then commander of the Israeli air force, Dan Halutz, was asked at the time what he feels when he drops a bomb on a residential building. His unforgettable answer: "A slight bump to the wing." When we in Gush Shalom accused him of a war crime, he demanded that we be put on trial for high treason. He was joined by the prime minister, Ariel Sharon, who accused us of wanting to "turn over Israeli army officers to the enemy." The attorney general notified us officially that he did not intend to open an investigation against those responsible for the bombing.
I should be happy, therefore, that at long last somebody is ready to put that action to a judicial test (even if he seems to have been thwarted by political pressure). But I am sorry that this has happened in Spain, not in Israel.
Please let me know when you press forward the case for arresting and trying the entire Hamas leadership for Crimes against Humanity. Until then, you're just blowing smoke.
Israel recruits army of lurkers to post propaganda comments on web sites, blogs critical of Israeli policies:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056648.html
So do y'll send your money to Hamas via those tunnels that just got blown up? :-)
Yup Suzanne, w'all be terrorists!!!!
(BOOO!)
Chris Berel – hasbara in action? not too impressive, are you? You may want to get a few pointers from our very own Richard witty, who – say what you will – knows how to argue an issue from every side, switching from moot points to disclaimers, from apologetics to downright denounciation of any and all miscreants at a drop of a hat.
Homework for Chris berels:
Please compare and contrast, in three sentences or less, Hamas with the IRA. For bonus points, add one other resistance group to the list (eg, PKK, Chechnian liberation movement, Irgun/Lehi etc.).
grading is on a scale, BTW, so please feel free to express your true feelings.
So, dana, you are at a loss to come up with a counter? Too bad.
chris berel – OK, I'll put on my instructor's hat, just for you, as you seem to be in a learner mode.
On the matter of hamas: just what crimes have they committed exactly that the defenders of the warsaw ghetto did not commit? oh yes, must make allowances for technology differences (eg, no rockets available to warsaw fighters. Also no access to suicide belts, which some would have surely used if they could). And you do realize, I assume, that to the Poles – and their german overlords at the time – the warsaw uprising was a terrorist campaign, I assume. Conquerors from time immemorial considered indiginous insurgents to be terrorists (another example for you – think of the maccabees. Now there were some capable terrorists, no?)
If you don't like this comparison, we can go back to the IRA. Again i'll ask – what is it that hamas did – and does – that the IRA didn't and/or wouldn't? technology notwithtanding, we have at the minimkum: bombing British civilians, check. Mounting hunger strikes, check. having a little internal civil war amongst themselves (a la fatah) and with the protestants (viewed as british settlers, just like the American WB settlers from brooklyn), check. Fighting for independence from an empire? check. religious components? check.
We can go on, further, finding more similarities than differences.
But here ARE two important distinctions that allowed the irish conflict to reach some resolution (admittedly, some 60 years later), unlike the I/P issue (which is still 10 years away, IMO):
1. the Lobby for the Brits and the protestant friends in the US was never one hundredth as powerful as AIPAC – and friends (in whose employ you no doubt are). And the IRA did have a US lobby (surreptitiously) that was almost as powerful as that of the British government, unlike the virtually non-existent and disempowered palestinian rights' lobby..
2. The Brits REALLY wanted to end the conflict and were willing to make compromises. As did the protestants AND the IRA. All the parties basically reached the point where they realized that further violence was a zero sum gain. The result? an agreement, including even the Sinn fein. By contrast, what is israel willing to compromise on?
Heard of any new directions from israel lately (do share, if so…). More importantly, what are YOU willing to compromise on? (admitting that the palestinians may just possibly be human doesn't count, BTW)
happier now?
On the matter of hamas: just what crimes have they committed exactly that the defenders of the warsaw ghetto did not commit?
The defenders of Warsaw were herded into the ghetto for no other reason then they were Jewish. The defenders of Warsaw did not build crude missles and send them in the direction of civilian population centers.
Your intitial assumption proves that you are not much more then a simpleton. Congratulations.
damn, chris, that was a particularly feeble response to dana. Did Suzanne fall asleep in hasbara class too?
dana strides chris like a colossus.
Feeble? Why does anyone need to post anything other than a feeble reply to prove you wrong? You certainly haven't posted anything requiring a stronger counter and I certainly wouldn't want to humiliate you into a suicide belt.