[photo by Mohammed Fares El Majdalawi]
Here's a new poll of Palestinian attitudes, post-Gaza, available here in English. Some of the results:
–Hamas's popularity doubled in the West Bank, from 12 percent to 26 percent;
–53 percent of West Bank respondents say Hamas won the war (only 35 percent of Gazans share that view);
–Trust in Hamas went from 17 percent to 28 percent overall. Trust in Fatah dropped from 31 percent to 26 percent
–Would you vote for Hamas? Jumped from 19 percent last April to 28 percent now. Fatah falls, 34 percent to 28 percent;
–Do rocket attacks help Palestinians achieve their national goal? 39 percent said yes last April. Now: 51 percent say so!
–Those opposited to peace negotiations with Israel jumped from 35 to 41 percent.
Oh, and there's little faith that Obama will do anything different. Half say he'll make no difference, under a third are still optimistic. And: 55 percent of Palestinians still favor the two-state solution (18 percent for binational state, 11 percent for one Palestinian state) and 55 percent support suicide bombing operations against civilians. Surprise.
Thanks to Shoghig, who writes:
Related posts:
- Blankfort: ‘Don’t pay much attention to the Fatah poll’
- What do Palestinians want?? 2/3 say Rockets must stop. 3/5 say Hamas should recognize Israel
- Berman says Congress won’t deal with Hamas-Fatah. But will Obama?
- World Poll, and Kos Poll, Reveal Some Sour Feeling Towards Israel
- Poll: Obama’s progressive base will support him in getting tough on Israel
{ 24 comments }
Hard to read the mixed results; near as I can gather, Israel's stated purpose for the nature of their attack on Gaza has come up way short in results. Agree, disagree? Why?
You might find triad blog a fresh breeze.
According to Franklin Lamb, Hamas was going to was going to really beat Israel up.
That view was pretty prevalent with the Israel hate groups before the war.
What Israel accomplished was to show that there will be a large price to pay attacking Israel.
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/on-heightened-%E2%80%9Cfull-red-alert%E2%80%9D-hezbollah-continues-to-ponder-its-islamic-duty-to-the-palestinians-in-gaza/
"The “Varsity Squad” of Hezbollah has so trained the “Junior Varsity Squad” that there is no need to intervene unless Hamas is on the verge of total elimination which given its strong showing during the past 17 days appears very unlikely. As one Hezbollah reservist noted, “If Hamas survives to fire even one rocket into Israel after Israeli forces eventually withdraw from Gaza, the World will declare Hamas the winner.” Israel discovered Hezbollah expertise last weekend when it learned that the capabilities of Hamas are much more than they anticipated including its ability to strike Beer Sheba.
Based on conversations with several Hezbollah functionaries, Shia Hezbollah appears to have increasingly deep respect for Sunni Hamas. They share an ideology and a set of strategic goals that transcend their religious difference. Both were created as an alternative to failed Arab nationalist organizations in order to effectively confront the Zionist occupation. Hezbollah has been the primary role model, trainer, and “coach” of a “new” Hamas with apparent dramatic results."
I guess the jews are not the only "stiff-necked" people in this world.
A very instructive poll. Basically, it states that Israel should have continued to bomb Gaza until every member of Hamas was dead. Further, that Israel should have sent execution squad into Syria to take out the senior leadership of Hamas.
This will be taken under advisement.
Chris,
A very instructive poll. Basically, it states that Israel should have continued to bomb Gaza until every member of Hamas was dead. Further, that Israel should have sent execution squad into Syria to take out the senior leadership of Hamas.
And polls now show Likud in a robust lead with the more fascist yet Lieberman pulling into second or third. Bascially, it states that Palestinians should bomb Israel until every last fascist element was dead. Further, that Palestinians should send execution squads into the US to take out the American funders of these elements.
This will be taken under advisement.
Indeed.
"–53 percent of West Bank respondents say Hamas won the war (only 35 percent of Gazans share that view)"
ok…don't screech…but this begs the question: should stupid people be breeding??
BTW–wasn't the other poll exclusively asked of Gazans? This seems to be responses from the occupied territories at large. Doesn't that dilute things and potentially negate the charge that the other poll was very different and manipulated by Fatah?
Is this Jerusalem Media & Communications outfit unbiased, btw? I don't know much about them.
Actually Sam, what it shows is that the Palestinians are idiots. They voted for leadership that lead them straight into a disastrous war with the 4th or 5th strongest military power on the planet. Then they looked at that disaster and said "oooh, sign me up for more of that".
Israeli voters OTOH voted for a government that was succeeding at the war with a 50 to 1 ratio of enemy soldiers killed to Israeli soldiers killed (though with regrettable and unavoidable civilian casualties on the other side), then stopped fighting before the job was done.
Hamas picked a fight with Israel. Israel demonstrated their military capability. Israel let Hamas live hoping that the demonstration would be enough to get Hamas to stop trying to pick a fight. Since it hasn't been, the Israelis are likely to vote for a government that is going to do more than just demonstrate their ability to destroy Hamas.
The problem with Hamas is that they fundamentally don't understand the concept of being merciful to an enemy. If they had the capability to destroy Israel, they would. So they think the fact that Israel hasn't exterminated the Palestinians means that the Israelis are weak.
Quite frankly, I have no idea how you deal with someone whose response to losing is "you let me live, therefore I will keep trying to kill you". What do you do when no matter how much damage you inflict on the other side short of extermination, they won't stop trying to kill you?
Thom, which Occupation are you talking about? The one where an inferior power contains a superior power through 40 years of Occupation?
Cause the situation you are talking about exists completely in your own mind, and has no relation to Gaza, except insofar as it reveals the depths to which your mind has sunk. I hope you aren't a Jew, I can't take too much more of this embarrassment.
"They voted for leadership that lead them straight into a disastrous war…"
I thought the "war" happened in 1967 (the Israelis won, or so they told themselves) and the Palestinian territory has been occupied since then. How can an occupied territory start a "war" with their occupiers?
"The problem with Hamas is that they fundamentally don't understand the concept of being merciful to an enemy. If they had the capability to destroy Israel, they would. So they think the fact that Israel hasn't exterminated the Palestinians means that the Israelis are weak."
Yep…Westerners seem to think Hamas are thinking like Westerners.
Their mentality is from the Iron Age era, or earlier.
"How can an occupied territory start a "war" with their occupiers?"
Definition of guerrilla warfare–(gsymbolrĭl´symbol) [Span.,=little war], fighting by groups of irregular troops (guerrillas) within areas occupied by the enemy. When guerrillas obey the laws of conventional warfare they are entitled, if captured, to be treated as ordinary prisoners of war; however, they are often executed by their captors. The tactics of guerrilla warfare stress deception and ambush, as opposed to mass confrontation, and succeed best in an irregular, rugged, terrain and with a sympathetic populace, whom guerrillas often seek to win over by propaganda, reform, and terrorism. Guerrilla warfare has played a significant role in modern history, especially when waged by Communist liberation movements in Southeast Asia and elsewhere.
Mooser! Welcome! You'll like it here, it's even more animated than JSF.
Sam,
The problem with your scenerio is that the Palestinains do not have the ability to carry out their (and your) genocidal dream.
Suzanne:
How can an occupied territory start a "war" with their occupiers?
Definition of guerrilla warfare…
Start.
Definition of guerrilla warfare…
Start a war.
Definition of guerrilla warfare…
Start a war.
Definition of guerrilla warfare…
Start a war.
Because who starts a war has a lot to do with the morality of everyone who fights that war, no matter on which side.
This why the claims against Palestinian rockets are broadcast so forcefully by Israeli and Israel-sympathetic media, in an attempt to establish who "started" things.
The morality of aggressive response to aggression versus the immorality of aggression itself.
Because morality is important, for reasons a lot of us don't fully understand yet.
It's getting pretty clear that anybody who has to lie about what they've done and why they did it, to justify an attack that appears unjust and provocational, and who seem to feel they have to dishonestly rationalize what they did and are still doing, is probably not in the morally superior position.
Thom, I wouldn't put too much stock on "the 4th or 5th strongest military power on the planet" with a 50 to 1 kill ratio.
Remember it's possible to win every battle but lose the war.
roy- I'm not going to get into some silly argument about who started the war. Keep popping your pink bubblegum and believe whatever you want to believe.
Ana, can you name a single war in history where the side that won every battle but lost the war had no choice about whether to continue the war? In other words, can you name one country that lost such a war that was destroyed by losing the war?
I can't think of any. The cannonical example of winning every battle but losing the war is Viet Nam. But the stakes for the U.S. in quitting the war weren't life or death for U.S. civilians. The Vietnamese weren't sending suicide bombers and rockets into the U.S. They didn't have one seventh of the U.S. population under constant threat of rocket attacks. The U.S. could afford to lose in Viet Nam. The Israelis can't afford to lose, no matter the cost.
The Palestinians have a choice about whether to continue the war. If they quit, they would get their own country.
The Israelis don't have a choice about whether to continue the war. If they quit, they get exterminated.
They do get to quit. But the Palestinians must quit first. However, the Israelis must always be on guard. While there are no 'christian' nations that still believe there is some sort of mandate to rule the world, most Islamic nations of the middle east are very much enthralled in the darker side of Islam.
"This seems to be responses from the occupied territories at large. Doesn't that dilute things and potentially negate the charge that the other poll was very different and manipulated by Fatah?"
How so? The poll puts the responses for the West Bank and Gaza separately, and also puts the total for the occupied territories.
You're not in the habit of reading, are you?
If you had read,you would've seen that the group that conducted the poll are a partner organization of Friedrich Ebert Stiftung, which is a world-renowned foundation.
blogger from Lebanon–I did see the FES logo stamped on top of the page. I just don't know how hands-on they are in poll taking.
My question was more about how really different the results were when it came to Gazan response.
I don't have time right now to look at the 2 surveys side by side and study how the questions were framed etc.
But if they are vastly different results than obviously one poll is skewed (which one is speculation on all of our parts)
Maybe someone wants to create a blog post that examines that OBJECTIVELY–as well as a comparison of the earlier poll done by this group?
BTW–Venezuela received the highest approval ratings for a country playing an important role. Way higher than Egypt, Jordan, and Qatar. What is THAT all about?
Suzanne, where does the Irgun and Stern Gang fit in your definition of guerrilla warfare? Just asking while popping my pink gum.
Carter: One way of stopping Pal rockets other than mass seige would
have been to simply open up the blockade so Pals could live on a basic needs basis. The USS gives Israel 10 million dollars a day, and depends on the USA at the UN to stop universal appeals in behalf the Palestinians. CNN now. Larry King. Subject: What Obama should do.
Carter is just mad that he lost his title as worst president since Hoover. He is trying his best to bolster his reputation as an incompetent boob.
If the Israelis opened the blockade, Hamas would keep stealing the food and meanwhile bring in more and better rockets to fire at Israel.
Hamas's response to any concession by Israel is more terrorism, not less. Witness what happened when Israel pulled out of Gaza.
Israel should make a deal with Hamas. Borders: open to any and all goods, weapons, bombs, you name it. West Bank settlements: disbanded. Palestinians get to keep the settler's houses, etc. Palestinians get East Jerusalem. What's the catch? The catch is that if, after three months of all those things, the Palestinians ever launch another organized attack on Israel, Israel gets to send the lot of them packing and gets all of the West Bank and Gaza with the Palestinians expelled into Jordan and Egypt.
I figure it would be less than a week before the Palestinians attacked again and off they go.
Kidding about that whole idea of course. No matter what deal the Palestinians made, the world would pitch a fit if the Israelis expelled them for breaking it.
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