Reem Salahi writes in Electronic Intifada about what she saw and heard in Gaza on a recent National Lawyers Guild delegation:
But let us play the devil's advocate and agree that the majority of Israel's attacks were completely reactionary and only consequent to Palestinian militant firing. Let us assume that Israel was justified in its attacks against al-Fakhura school, in its demolition of the American School, the best school in Gaza, in its destruction of the UNRWA warehouses which housed tons of humanitarian aid, in its shelling of the Palestine Red Crescent Society, in its obliteration of the Samouni home in the Zeitoun neighborhood of Gaza City where hundreds of family members had taken refuge after being directed to do so by the Israeli military, resulting in the killing of 48 to 70 members of the same family (I visited this area during the mass memorial for the Samouni family and it still reeked of rotting bodies and phosphorus), in its eradication of the Gaza City police station, in its shooting at UN cars, clearly marked with the large blue letters, and at ambulance drivers, in its destruction of the Islamic University of Gaza on 28 December, in its bombing of the Gaza media building, and the list goes on and on. Yet, let us momentarily assume that Israel was the victim in all of this madness, as it claims it was, and that in fact the Palestinians are the ones to blame.
How then, does Israel explain the executions, the shooting of Palestinians point blank in cold blood? How does it justify Israeli soldiers shooting Kassab Shurrab with seven bullets across the chest as he came out of his car with his hands to his side, especially as one of the Palestinian hostages sitting blindfolded by the soldiers heard the commander tell the soldier in Hebrew to shoot the civilians that were driving down the road. What about the two daughters of Khaled Abed Rabu, Amal, two years old, and Suaad, seven years old, murdered by an Israeli soldier using a semi-automatic rifle before their father's eyes as the other Israeli soldiers ate chips and chocolate?
Or Sameer Rashid Mohammad Mohammad, a 43-year-old UNRWA worker, who was separated from his family by Israeli soldiers and taken to a separate room and shot in the chest? For four days after killing Sameer, Israeli soldiers held his family hostage and would make the family prepare the murdered Sameer food. Only when the Israeli soldiers left their home, did Sameer's children see that their father was executed and by their father's dead and bleeding body were piles of food.
How about Farah al-Helo, 18 months old, shot in the stomach when her family was forced to evacuate from their home at 6:30pm by Israeli soldiers who assured them of their safety? Only 50 meters down the road they were shot at by other Israeli soldiers. Farah, with her intestines spilling from her stomach, died on the side of the road a few hours later as the same soldiers that had assured their safety watched.
Further, how can Israel explain its use of the Palestinians as human shields? Upon entering a village, Israeli soldiers would separate the men from the women. Sami Rashid Mohammad Mohammad, Sameer's brother, was taken as a hostage and forced to accompany the Israeli soldiers for four days. He was handcuffed and blindfolded and made to walk in front of the Israeli tanks and soldiers as bullets would whiz by. At other times, he was made to sit on his knees in an open field for hours while Israeli soldiers would shoot from behind him and often at his feet. These Palestinians were nothing more than entertainment for the soldiers, a child's play toy. When I asked Sami whether he saw any Palestinian militants during his time as a human shield, he laughed and said that he only saw Israeli soldiers with their blackened faces and camouflage outfits.
FYI. Al Jazeera and others have reported 27 to 29 dead in the al-Samouni family massacre.
And still the question of why Hamas chose to shell Sderot, Ashkelon, and Beersheba following the formal cessation of the cease-fire.
Witty, either you're really thick, or you choose to be thick? Which one is it? Please answer me. It is a fact that Israel broke the cease-fire on November 4th, you cannot claim anything else. Repeating a lie over and over again does not make it true.
And no, the question does not remain that, since she said above, let's assume that the Palestinians were to blame. Does this give Israeli soldiers the right to commit the heinous crimes she describes? What I'm understanding is, according to people like you, it does.
I'm sure someone else has the facts handy but it is my understanding that Israel is the one that broke the cease-fire and that the blockade itself was a continuation of hostilities..
It's as if Israel acts in the manner of the bully Nelson Muntz of "The Simpsons"; (i.e. "Stop hitting yourself!")
'Almost every Palestinian I met in Gaza believes that Israel's recent attack will only be followed by another bloodier and more deadly attack on Gaza that will exterminate the Palestinians once and for all.'
If every Palestinian believe this nonsense, then why do they keep firing missiles and mortars into Israel?
Embrace commandment of war, Hesder students told
Yaakov Lappin, JPost, Feb 26 2009
A small number of young men soon to be drafted into the IDF from Hesder yeshivot around the country gathered at the Jerusalem Theater on Monday evening to hear speakers from the national-religious camp espouse the virtues of fulfilling “the commandment of war“. The event, the first of its kind, was organized to salute young religious men about to be inducted, and attracted just over 100 youths. IDF Chief Rabbi Brig.-Gen. Avichai Ronsky told the youths it was a privilege to be able to take part
in the commandment of war and the preparations for fulfilling it. Embrace this commandment with all your hearts. It is a right previous generations could not realize.
The IDF chief rabbi said Jewish armies, from the battles between the Israelites and the tribe of Amalek to the present day, had always been manned by virtuous soldiers. Tel Aviv Chief Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau delivered a speech expressing hope that Israel would embark on preemptive wars, rather than wait for
the enemy to come here … and see the whites of our eyes. King David taught the people of Judah how to use the bow and arrow … Jacob our patriarch blessed his son Judah and told him to fight Israel’s enemies, to attack them and not fight defensively … The descendants of the tribe of Judah will do the same. Do we have another home? Somewhere else to go? This is our only home. Therefore, we have no choice but to fight … a preemptive war … not to wait for the next Operation Defensive Shield. If we could throw down our sword, it would be the dream of our lives. We pray for this three times a day, that God will bless us with peace. But so long as this does not happen, we cannot lay down our sword.
Rabbi Haim Druckman, who heads Bnei Akiva, said:
Fighting our enemies is a commandment. To serve in the IDF is a commandment. We must remember that we could not carry out this commandment for 2,000 years. How happy we must be that we live in this great and special time, a time in which we have returned to our land, seen the founding of our state, the ingathering of exiles.
Druckman described yeshiva students in the army as
the jewel of the IDF, because they remind us of the soldiers of King David, of Bar Kochba, and Judah Maccabee. They know why they fight, what this country is for us, that this is the land of our fathers, the land God gave to us. There is nothing more just than our war for our existence and our country, which our enemies want to destroy.
Kiryat Arba Chief Rabbi Dov Lior delivered a fiery and overtly political speech, calling for Israeli sovereignty over the whole of the Land of Israel and criticizing what he described as weak-minded IDF strategies in the face of Israel’s enemies. Lior expressed hope that a growing number of IDF strategists coming from the national-religious camp would have an influence on future military campaigns. Citing the Torah, Lior noted that
200,000 Israelites and 10,000 Judahites fought Amalek. Why are the Judahites counted separately from the others? Because the Israelite army pitied Amalek. Today this is called being humanitarian. Only the tribe of Judah did not pity Amalek, and destroyed it… The sons of Torah are taught not to pity their enemies. We need ethics from the Torah, not the Christian world, which teaches to turn the other cheek. This hypocrisy is against human nature.
Eliya Yonan, 19, of Eilat, who will be drafted to the Armored Corps in August, said he was impressed by the event, and that he fully agreed with the main message of the evening:
To fight is a commandment, there is no doubt.
The best description of the Gaza attack, and the best satire too, from fafblog:
… more at
The question is why Hamas found it necessary to reply to an Israeli raid on a kidnap tunnel that killed only militants with rockets directed against Israeli civilians.
But since we know that you deny Israelis the right to exist and their state the right to pre-empt aggression, the less time spent on you the better.
I see this going either of two ways: either the Pals are going to continue on their long trudge towards a "Dresden" defeat.
Or…they are going to realize the horror of that, their inability to stabilize and forge an honest peace…and get outside intervention.
Looks like a crossroads to me. I hope they pick B. I hope the Israelis are open to B.
One thing's for certain, things are NOT going to stand still.
After reading the final chapters in Koestler's book Promise and Fulfillment I had an intimation it is the national language of Israel that explains so much about its national behavior. Hebrew has programmed the national Israeli mind. A language without vowels seeks to dominate its region, acting out an archaic attitude thousands of years old that celebrates the annihilation of other tribes as righteous, while using the latest Twenty-first Century technology supplied by a nation that speaks a modern, continuously changing language. Until a way can be found to break the Hebrew speakers' linguistic trance, Palestinians and Lebanese will continue to be under assault by a dead language seeking its rebirth through the death of others.
What is the source of these reports of shooting people point blank? Are we getting our info from Barbara "I don't apologize for lying about atrocities" Lubin, or her ilk again?
The problem with any reports from the Palestinians is that they don't hesitate to lie about atrocities.
And I am sure some useful idiot is going to say "it isn't the Palestinians reporting this, it is the NLG". Well, when the NLG is merely blindly repeating whatever tall tales the Palestinians tell them, it very well is the Palestinians reporting it.
Like that guy who tried to put the credibility of the Lancet medical magazine behind Hamas casualty figures, then it turned out the Lancet was just blindly quoting Hamas casualty figures.
Actually Hamas never fired any rockets during the cease fire until after Israel attacked Gaza on Nov. 4, 2008. Israel has stated that straight out (google – regev rockets youtube). In fact it was Fatah firing the rockets, acting as agents provocateur for Israel to give pretext for the continued blockade. Hamas clamped down on Fatah and almost completely stopped the rockets, for which Hamas was accused of 'targeting their opponents'.
The same exact thing is happening now only this time Israel is providing air cover for their Fatah agents. When the Hamas police try to get to the scene to catch those firing the rockets, they are killed by Israel gunship helicopters. That is why the Fatah rocket fire is continuing now. Hamas has fired no rockets at all since they ceased fire at the end of January and actually no one has claimed they have. They only say it is Hamas' responsibility because 'Hamas controls Gaza'. Read the news VERY carefully.
Witty, why did Hamas fire those rockets? Did Israel ease the blockade sufficiently? Who was responsible for the sporadic rockets during the lull? When was the Gaza attack planned? Why did the IDF ask their lawyers if they could bomb the police graduations months in advance?
Why didn't Israel end the blockade? Why did does Israel hold 1000 Palestinians without paperwork. Why does Israel hold minors prisoner? Why doesn't Israel recognize the right of return?
You keep spouting your bullshit propaganda. Your superficial truths. No context.
You are a two-faced, pretentious, coward Witty.
" Until a way can be found to break the Hebrew speakers' linguistic trance, Palestinians and Lebanese will continue to be under assault by a dead language seeking its rebirth through the death of others."
Between this and Rowan's claim that Jews are communicating telepathically, I'm starting to think a mental institution has given patients permission to post here during recreation hours.
Show us proof that those tunnels were being built inside Israel proper as Witty insists.
Show us proof that those tunnels were 'kidnap' tunnels, when Jimmy Carter characterized them as both 'defensive' and 'inside Gaza'.
And now tell us why we should give a damn about kidnapped Israeli soldiers when Israel holds 10,000 Palestinians in their prisons. 100s of minors. 1000 without any sort of charge – just administrative detainees.
Tell us why we should give a damn about justice for Israeli soldiers like Shalit when Israeli soldiers get away with crime after crime in the OT.
When only about 40% of complaints by Palestinians concerning the abuses by the IDF, are heard. Only 6% of that 40 are brought to some form of hearing. And the longest sentence has been around 2 years? (Yesh Din)
Tell us why Hamas should recognize Israel when Israel has not recognized the Palestinian right of return. Tell us why Hamas should recognize Israel when it is colonizing the West Bank. Tell us why Hamas should recognize Israel when Israel kills 10 times the number of children and 5 times the number of civilians. Etc. etc. etc.
The idea to bombard the closing ceremony of the Gaza police course was internally criticized in the Israel Defense Forces months before the attack. A military source involved in the planning of the attack, in which dozens of Hamas policemen were killed, says that while military intelligence officers were sure the operation should be carried out and pressed for its approval, the IDF's international law division and the military advocate general were undecided.
After months of the operational elements pushing for the attack's approval, the international law division headed by Col. Pnina Sharvit-Baruch gave the go-ahead. In spite of doubts, and also under pressure, Sharvit-Baruch and the division also legitimized the attack on Hamas government buildings and the relaxing of the rules of engagement, resulting in numerous Palestinian casualties. In the division it is also believed that the killing of civilians in a house whose residents the IDF has warned might be considered legally justified, although the IDF does not actually target civilians in this way. link to haaretz.com
The Israelis planned to violate the ceasefire months in advance of the commencement of the December 2008 hostilities. As reported by the NYT columnist Ethan Bronner, the Israelis shut the international press out of Gaza at least six weeks before the December attack on the police graduation. As noted above, the attack on the graduation was planned with foreknowledge of the recommencement of hostilities. It was also timed to ensure maximum casualties.
The timing of the November 4, 2008 attack on 'kidnap tunnels' is also instructive.
The attack comes shortly before a key meeting this Sunday in Cairo when Hamas and its political rival Fatah will hold talks on reconciling their differences and creating a single, unified government. It will be the first time the two sides have met at this level since fighting a near civil war more than a year ago.
Israel's rigid nationalist attitude can be partly explained by the limitations of its thought processes imposed by the language it has adopted. Israel is mentally disposed to impose blockades on its neighbors, as if it was an abusive parent imposing corporal punishment on a delinquent child, because of a language that was derived from a two thousand years old patriarchal priestly class. The combination of an archaic linguistic attitude with modern, Western strategies, tactics and weapons is what gives Israel so much power.
Hmm, for once I'm gonna have to agree with you, S.
"And still the question of why Hamas chose to shell Sderot, Ashkelon, and Beersheba following the formal cessation of the cease-fire."
Shouldn't your first question be why Israel chose in November to repeatedly and seriously break a very successful five month ceasefire – a ceasefire which, as reported by Israel's own Ministry of Defense, Hamas kept meticulously, and during which Hamas also did a very creditable job of restraining other groups who were not themselves parties to the ceasefire? Shouldn't you be wondering why Israel chose, instead of working toward a renewal of the ceasefire, to take actions guaranteed to bring about a renewal of hostilities, putting its own citizens in Sderot, Ashkelon, and Beersheba back into the line of rocket fire – rocket fire which Israel's own Ministry of Defense described as retaliatory, thus admitting that they were the aggressors?
As opposed the the Palestinian who shot, at point blank range, a bullet in the skulls of a pregnant woman, and, in turn, slowly, methodically, each of her four pre-teen daughters.
Go on Phil. Keep defending Palestinian terrorism. I want you to dream that dream every night of the rest of your life.
And based on that murder, in Phil's phools tortured logic it is safe to say:
'Almost every Israeli I met in Jerusalem believes that Hamas's recent attack will only be followed by another bloodier and more deadly attack on Israel that will exterminate the Jews once and for all.'
Go on, Phil. Defend those Palestinians. Show how they are determined to kill every Jew who dares freely draw breath on what they consider holy islamic land.
No one here denies Israelis the right to exist. Some, like myself, belief that Israel, the state, has no more "right" to exist as an apartheid government than did South Africa, or the Jim Crow South. If a state that severely discriminates against some of its inhabitants has an inherent right to exist in that discriminatory manner, then individual human rights mean nothing.
Why do you continually conflate the rights of a state with the rights of its people when it comes to Israel? No Israeli government has ever acknowledged the right of a Palestinian state to exist. Is that the same as failing to acknowledge the right of individual Palestinians to exist, in your view? If so, why are you spending time listening to what the government of Israel says and defending it? Or is this just another illustration of your unquestioned double standard when it comes to Israel?
And "provoking aggression" is a more apt description of what Israel does. It is well-known that the Israeli government, throughout its history, has consistently used violence to provoke a reactive violence, and when that hasn't worked, they've just gone ahead with "pre-emptive" violence. Hence the fafblog satirical description of Israeli "pre-retaliation retaliation". Israel wants to play by Calvinball rules, while pretending to be the eternal victim.
@Chris
I am not familiar with that incident (Palestinian shooting, etc.). What are the details?
Ironic situation in Israel/nascent Palestine. The side with the power to exterminate the other doesn't want to and the side that wants to exterminate the other doesn't have the power.
The Palestinians are victims of their own propaganda. They spend so much time lying making absurd claims about "genocide", in an attack that killed less than one person per Israeli soldier over the entire three week war in which the Israelis could easily have killed dozens or hundreds of people per day per soldier, if they wanted to, that they have talked themselves into believing it.
Embrace commandment of war, Hesder students told (link to article quoted by Rowan, above).
No State has the inherent arbitrary right to exist. A State is a political entity. So Israel as a Jewish State, must be abolished as the Apartheid State of South Africa was abolished.
And Thom, there is a definition of genocide. The crux of which is based on INTENT. No one here is saying that the massacre was on par with the HOLOCAUST which is different. The systematic-assembly-line massacre of the Jews during WW2 is not what happened in Gaza.
But it was a massacre. I'd actually say it's not a genocide but I wouldn't rule it out 100%. Israel has no problem terrorizing the Palestinians into submission. Israel would welcome ethnic cleansing. Genocide? I think Israel would do this as well if it weren't taboo for a 'Western' country.
During the whole course of the cease-fire BOTH Hamas and Israel incrementally tested the envelope of it, which resulted in a series of skirmishes from November 4 to November 18. The skirmishes STOPPED by mutual acceptance.
On December 18th, it was unknown whether Hamas would CHOOSE to continue the cease-fire or abandon it.
They first permitted Islamic Jihad to shell the Negev, without apparently undertaking that themselves.
On approximately December 21st was the first verifiably Hamas initiated shelling. First into the desert, then into Sderot, then into Ashkelon, then at Beersheba.
The shelled and shelled for 9 days without Israeli military responce, only warnings. Hamas INTENDED for Israel to respond militarily.
And, that resulted from a split in their organization with Gazan and social service wings mostly opposed, and Syrian branches (with Iranian recommendations) and teenage "leadership" supporting.
No Witty.
"During the whole course of the cease-fire BOTH Hamas and Israel incrementally tested the envelope of it, which resulted in a series of skirmishes from November 4 to November 18. The skirmishes STOPPED by mutual acceptance."
Bullshit.
11-12 rockets fired during 4-5 months by 'groups in defiance of Hamas' is not pushing 'the envelope'. Israel on the other hand was condemned by all the major human rights groups before/during/after the massacre.
The blockade was affecting 1.5 million people intimately. Insufficient food/water/medicine/electricity. No freedom of movement.
Furthermore, Israel DENIED that there was a humanitarian crisis and insisted that it was allowing sufficient aide in.
Oh and it also didn't allow reporters in for some time.
The terms imposed on Israel were subjective. EASE. Since Israel will not answer to any independent body of justice/human rights or oversight of ANY kind – how can we trust it would fulfill it's terms? We can't – and we were right.
Israel not only denied Palestinians essential life supplies but also denied there was a problem.
Hamas on the other hand was 'careful to maintain the cease-fire' as the MFA report concedes.
I know you're desperate to level the playing field. First you say it's Hamas' fault and I'm trying to make them into heroes. Now you say both Israel and Hamas were 'pushing the envelope'.
What a pathetic liar you are.
Some Israelis feel a Palestinian state does not have the right to come into being as an Islamist supremacist theocracy. They at least have the excuse of living next door, and of having paid the price in blood of Islamic supremacism since the 1920s. Yet you discount this perspective, as Israelis discount yours. In general, the internal political arrangements of states are the business of their citizens, a right you accord only to Palestinians. Discriminatory citizenship and land development laws are a legacy of every successor state of the Ottoman Empire, including Greece, which has religion on ID cards and deported Greek Muslims to Turkey–Greek Muslims, people Greek in language and heritage, but not religion–as recently as the 1920s. Yet you are incensed only by a Jewish state.
"Israel would welcome ethnic cleansing."
ethnic cleansing The systematic elimination of an ethnic group or groups from a region or society, as by deportation, forced emigration, or genocide.
Israel is the ethnic cleanser par excellence. It began its existence as a state with a massive ethnic cleansing, and has continued to carry out ethnic cleansing operations throughout its history.
Israel committed massive ethnic cleansing in Palestine 1948-49. It committed another much smaller ethnic cleansing in Jerusalem and other parts of the West Bank in 1967. Its most successful ethnic cleansing was in the Golan Heights in 1967 when it cleansed the area of 96% of its Syrian population. Since 1948 Israel has carried out "quiet ethnic cleansing" operations of areas within Israel proper, such as the Galilee (called in Hebrew Yihud Ha Galil – Judaization of the Galilee), and the Negev. Israel has been conducting gradual ethnic cleansing in the OPT continuously since 1967.
I look forward to your support for Mustafa Barghouti's National Initiative and your boycott of a Hamas/PLO unity government of Palestine, or either party governing separately, whose track record of official discrimination against and oppression of Palestine's Christian, Samaritan, and Druze minorities are well-known.
LD,
I personally note that Hamas largely kept the cease-fire, INCLUDING holding other factions to it that were reluctant to.
And, that in response Israel likely should have eased the crossings more than they had.
It does NOT effect my judgement on who broke the calm substantively, nor on the wisdom, effectiveness, or prospects for the future of Hamas INITIATING shelling of civilians.
@Eurosabra
Which other state in the world does this and gets away with it? Cos' Israel does…
Islamist supremacy theocracy?
You're conflating Islamic extremists with all Islamic groups – whether it be Hezbollah or Hamas or whoever.
Hamas is not Al Qaeda. Hamas is not the Taliban.
They are not a theocracy. For people who want to know who/what Hamas is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbVZgrUUSnA
Good place to start. I'd like to understand them further as well. All militant nationalist groups have used grandiose language and rhetoric in their pursuits of 'liberation'.
So there's a bit of salt to take with these descriptions. They have their own internal problems as does any other political entity.
While Zionism in practice for decades, has been built on ethnic cleansing and discrimination, the reactionary words of Hamas distress you.
Zionism is the reality of the I-P conflict. Hamas is a symbol of resistance. Their hateful rhetoric (if there is any, I'll assume there is as I've heard tons about it's Charter) – is a response to the oppression of their people directly by Zionism.
@Eurosabra
Which other state in the world does this and gets away with it? Cos' Israel does…
Israel's rigid nationalist attitude can be partly explained by the limitations of its thought processes imposed by the language it has adopted. Israel is mentally disposed to impose blockades on its neighbors, as if it was an abusive parent imposing corporal punishment on a delinquent child, because of a language that was derived from a two thousand years old patriarchal priestly class. The combination of an archaic linguistic attitude with modern, Western strategies, tactics and weapons is what gives Israel so much power.
Very interesting. The hegemony of language. It might also explain why the Zionists are so laconic and cliched when speaking English; that being that their Hebrew vocabulary is so much smaller, and they're accustomed to having essentially one correct way to say everything. To us, it sounds like a broken record, but to them, this is just how they communicate; almost in slogans and aphorisms.
As a side note: I've dabbled in the Hebrew language and find it quite fascinating. The reason it's written in reverse order is that it was invented to be carved into stone. That's how old it is.
If this happens, Israel is finished. And there can be no victim-screeching because the world will know via the Internets. Finished. And no amount of 'anti-Semitism' cries can erase it. The disgust will be profound. The perception global.
Prove it. You can't.
Wow. Look at the lovely Jewish ultra-nationalists in this thread, all polishing their fangs. How they glimmer when the blood has been wiped off. It seems though that the bloodlust of the sociopaths hasn't yet been quenched. More Palestinian babies will have to die, while the Jews here will weep, claiming that they only want peace. Peace, and just a little bit more land and water. Why do the Arabs insist on making war with their oppressors? Why can't the Arabs understand?
The idiot Jimmy Carter called the Hamas tunnel built to go into Israel and kidnap Israelis a "defensive tunnel". What a moron.
Phil…seems to me the venom on your blog has hit a crossroads.
I challenge you to make it a more hospitable site for balanced dialogue…and one that reflects the desire for resolution — and addresses the concerns of both parties in this conflict.
"The reason it's written in reverse order is that it was invented to be carved into stone. That's how old it is."
Hebrew is not written in reverse order, other languages are. Prior to the invention of the Greek alphabet languages were written from right to left. It was the Greeks who first wrote from left to right.
The limitations of Modern Hebrew sometimes bring interesting results. Cursing in Israel is done in Arabic because Modern Hebrew doesn't have any of its own.
Isn't Arabic written right to left as well? This convo about Hebrew thinking patterns due to linguistics seems patently insane…and if true would have to be applied to natural Arabic speakers too. In any event, sounds like bad science to me.
If there's anything I loathe more than anti-semitic nutjobs, it's people who embrace pseudoscience.
Islamist supremacy theocracy
The English language, although modern, is susceptible to rhetorical contortions that are designed to elicit a specific, emotional response. English's ability to adopt new words, such as Islamist, is a key to its power to influence attitudes, as propagandists know.
All theological enthusiasts believe in the supremacy of their philosophies. Rabbis, mullahs, pastors and priests prefer death and murder for their followers rather than renunciation of their beliefs.
No one here denies Israelis the right to exist.
Posted by: tree | March 03, 2009 at 02:01 PM
Tree, you have to stop lying. You have good ideas, but when you pull a boner like the above, your posts get shot to hell.
Thom, Eva, our favorite polish antisemite has the details. But basically, Palestinians executed a pregnant woman and her 4 daughters at point blank range. They, of course, shot the mother in the stomach first so she would know the child she carries was dead.
As Phil is posting another one of his patented "Let's all hate Jews" posts, it is time to remind him of what he is actually advocating.
Hamas has a fairly good track record of killing Israelis in the Territories since '87, and the occasional kidnap/murder was followed by mass-casualty suicide terror events in Israel from '93-'94 onwards, culminating in the 2nd Intifada, where Hamas killed twenty or thirty Israelis at a time, wounding tens and sometimes hundreds.
Since it has made the transition to rocket war, the capacity for mass casualties has expanded exponentially, since Grads can carry nerve gas warheads, the genocidal rhetoric has moved from a real concern to clear and present danger. Whereas previously they had the desire and the nihilism but not the technical capacity, now they have all three. And the only warning will be the nerve gas airburst.
The Charter is pretty explicit about Palestine being an Islamic Waqf, and awaqaf are always, always, always governed by Sharia. Article 11 makes it pretty clear that Sharia governs Palestine. But you haven't read it. So I assume you know about as much about Hamas, which is not al-Qaeda or the Taliban. It is Hamas. That is enough.
LD, you are either a liar or a fool. Since you haven't read the Hamas Charter that declares, "Sharia is the law in Palestine", and you claim that Hamas is not a theocracy, I'd say a fool.
Transformational grammar has a large bibliography of scholarly work. Although called transformational grammar now by its proponents, it was originally called modern grammar, and was based on the linguistic work of Noam Chomsky. The breakthrough for combining grammar and psychology came when some scholars investigated the three main ways language is used to evade uncomfortable truths, using denial, distortion and nominalization. A well trained interlocutor can use a person's denials, distortions and nominalizations to discover underlying psychological problems people have. Native Hebrew speakers utilize a language greatly lacking in ways of modern expression. Hebrew automatically contains many denials and distortions of developed human thought, which helps to explain Israeli national intransigence.
Tommy—ever hear of the scientific method? In order to turn your hypothesis into actual theory, you need to test it over and over again for consistent results. The method exists in part to prevent strange people like you from practicing pseudoscience.
For one thing, your premise suggests that nurture overrides Nature, and that's been deeply challenged in the scientific world for some time now.
Perhaps it could be proven that language and culture influence each other somehow…but to put all your eggs in that basket is pretty witless. Humans are far too complex.
So nice try, but afraid it doesn't fly. :-)
Tommy: "Native Hebrew speakers utilize a language greatly lacking in ways of modern expression. Hebrew automatically contains many denials and distortions of developed human thought, which helps to explain Israeli national intransigence."
An interesting idea. Can you give us a couple of examples?
"Which other state in the world does this [builds houses on lands taken from someone else] and gets away with it? Cos' Israel does…" -Gert
Sorry to burst your bubble Gert, but every state in the world does that. The U.S. builds houses on lands taken from the Native Americans. Every other country in the Western Hemisphere likewise. In Europe, the English build on lands taken from the Celtic people who used to live there. In Australia, they build on lands taken from the Aborigines. In Africa, the lands have changed hands many times over the millennia. The Germans in Prussia are building on lands taken from the Pruthenian tribes they wiped out. The Japanese are building on the lands of the Ainu. The Spaniards are building on lands taken from the Basques. The Egyptians and Libyans are building on lands taken from the people who they took the lands from. Don't get me started on the Russians, Chinese, Pakistanis, etc.
So, are you merely incredibly ignorant of how the world works, or are OK with all that building on "stolen" land as long as it isn't Jews doing the building?
@Chris
Enough with the "Polish". So what if Eva is Polish. No reason to point that out.
My point about more detail is, please provide a source. Yes I know that the Palestinians and other terrorists commit such atrocities, but we should hold ourselves to the same standards that we want the Barbara Lubin's of the world to hold themselves. No untraceable stories of atrocities.