The following letter is posted on the Seattle Times website:
April 19, 2009
Israel rejects two-state planSegregation not the answer
What have we come to? For peace, Israel's government demands that Palestinians must recognize Israel (population 20 percent Palestinian) as a Jewish state, a Jewish democracy ["Israel rejects U.S. plan for 2-state solution," News, April 17]. And Obama wants two states, one for Jews and another for Palestinians.
Did Martin Luther King Jr. demand two states, one white and another colored, living side-by-side in peace and security? Did President Lyndon Johnson demand that the civil-rights movement first recognize the United States as a white nation, a white democracy as a precondition for any talks?
Meanwhile, Israel declares first macaroni and then jars of honey a threat to the Jewish state and refuses this humanitarian aid to the blockaded and surrounded Palestinian reservation known as Gaza. I wonder if Native Americans recognize the situation from their history of genocidal treatment by the white settlers and their nation.
– David Smith, Seattle
Fabulous. Thanks,David Smith and Adam.
The colonialism comparison is spreading. Again, a sign of hope.
Awesome. I just got a letter published in a local paper that likened Israel to a hypothetical Russia that excludes the descendants of Jewish emigrants from entering. 'Course this one exposed how illiberal the two state solution hard, fast and clean.
What does it say?
Can you act responsibly in reaction to those comments? Doesn't it take understanding more comprehensively, more deeply, more personally?
Where is the honest statement of goal? (All action, all thought has a goal?)
Where's yours?
My goal is to argue for the relevance of the green line as border (with Israeli control of the Jewish portions of Jerusalem within the wall), with ability for Jewish residents in then Palestine to retain their possession, but perfect title by compensation, for Israel to repeal the 1950's laws prohibiting Palestinians from making their title claims.
And, urging for commitment from both Israel and Palestine from non-national, non-ethnic, non-religious color-blind rule of law in both communities.
With the only exception of the invitation of expedited return of members of each community to the land that they are sovereign over.
And, to pursue that goal primarily by persuasion towards an agreement, ratified by Israel, Palestine, Arab League, US, EU, UN.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/opinion/20iht-edcohen.html
Israel, Iran and Fear
Article Tools Sponsored By
By ROGER COHEN
Published: April 19, 2009
NEW YORK — When I lived in Germany in the 1990s, the return of the capital from Bonn to the scene of the crime, Berlin, prompted agonizing over how to memorialize the Holocaust. Germans thirsted for a “Schlussstrich” — closure with Hitler — even as they acknowledged its impossibility.
Reminds me of jewish yearning of closure with the Nakba–why aren't they paying reparations to
the Palestinians yet? First, it seems, they have to at least acknowledge it in their K-12 textbooks…
I don't see a good reason for Americans to internalize the IP situation by comparing Israel's behavior, history and existence to America's. The Jim Crow and founding comparisons are just stupid, and the Indian to Palestinan comparison isn't exact, either. Israel and her supporters are the issue, not America.
I'm starting to think that Jewish journalists aren't the people to report on this topic (or many others) if the real issues are to be put into proper context for Americans. Israel shoud be judged by its own actions. George Washington and George Wallace are not the issue. The issue is Israel and the people who are corrupting the United States in Israel's service. Enough damage has been done to the U.S. by lashing our interests to those of Israel's, and I see nothing but further damage being done when Ameicans are asked to further degrade ourselves, and our nation, by wallowing in the mud with Israel, as Jews seek to make sense of, or evade responsibility for, their actions on behalf of Israel, Zionism and organized Jewry.
I really don't understand you Richard.
Your goals are perfectly fine but why not go a step further and combine both states? It'd make much more sense to have one state with roughly equal populations than two states where there's a minority in each.
P.S.
Has anyone read the comments? It's always funny when people try and compare Israel to Saudi Arabia; they might as well compare it with North Korea.
The populations don't regard themselves as one nation.
States with parity, but between groups that hate each other, experience civil war.
We don't need war without end, we need reconciliation.
The single-state idea is interesting, but a fantasy.
The single-state idea is interesting, but a fantasy.
—
Jul 25, 2008
BY Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates
"We must make sure the American military continues to be a great engine of progress and equality — all the better to defend our people and our values against adversaries around the globe."
—
Except in Israel where equality is seen as an impediment to progress.
Curiousor and curiousor.
Screw MLK & LBJ. Hooray for Malcolm X & Robert Williams.
Todd, it seems to me you are viewing the world from behind the identity of an American, rather than as an American. To do so would be counter-productive to my aim, which is a just, peaceful society. We fund Israel, through taxes and charitable donations. IMO, not recognizing that Israel in many instances acts on behalf of US interests is handy in allowing us to escape responsibility hold for it's actions. While Israel's actions make it a central issue of our times, what lies at the basis of that issue is public acceptance of such activity when undertaken by our own government, as well as continued support for Israel. We are responsible for the actions of our government, even though as individuals we seem to have little power over it.
Holding "Jews" responsible for Israel is a good example of antisemitism, while the act also allows one to shrug off personal responsibility.
@ Richard
The Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks didn't really regard themselves as one nation, but they managed to make it work (with a bit of international prodding). The US managed to work themselves out after the Civil War, Belgium works, Switzerland etc.
In my opinion, a two-state solution will end up similar to the India/Pakistan situation, where the two countries are constantly at war; where the two countries are deeply suspicious of each other; and now, one is perilously close to becoming a failed state.
Israel will end up being economically, politically and militarily dominant whilst Palestine will end up living in the shadow of its neighbour.
I want a peaceful and just society, also, Margaret, but I'm not going to put my head in the sand. If you don't think that the bulk of Jewish organizations push specific group or Israeli interests, what can I do about that? I don't see the great evidence of Israel and the United States working together for the best interests of the U.S.
I understand that many non-Jewish leaders in government and industry wouldn't know or care about my interests if they had to, but that isn't the topic. How many U.S. presidents alone have complained of pressure from Jewish groups to do Israel's bidding? Maybe they were lying or scapegoating, but I doubt it.
If you have a problem with claims of Jewish power, talk to Phil. If you don't like my interpretation of Jewish power, I don't care.
Happy to see your response, Todd. While I understand that you don't care whether I like your interpretation of Jewish power, I think it's worthwhile to respond, and am writing a reply.
Does anyone have suggestions for the best way to organize comments from mondoweiss so that one knows when there is a response to a comment made? My method isn't working very well.
I should have said, I will review what you've written and consider a response!
"I don't see a good reason for Americans to internalize the IP situation by comparing Israel's behavior, history and existence to America's. The Jim Crow and founding comparisons are just stupid, and the Indian to Palestinan comparison isn't exact, either. Israel and her supporters are the issue, not America.
I'm starting to think that Jewish journalists aren't the people to report on this topic (or many others) if the real issues are to be put into proper context for Americans. Israel shoud be judged by its own actions. George Washington and George Wallace are not the issue. The issue is Israel and the people who are corrupting the United States in Israel's service. Enough damage has been done to the U.S. by lashing our interests to those of Israel's, and I see nothing but further damage being done when Ameicans are asked to further degrade ourselves, and our nation, by wallowing in the mud with Israel, as Jews seek to make sense of, or evade responsibility for, their actions on behalf of Israel, Zionism and organized Jewry."
Posted by: Todd | April 20, 2009 at 11:35 AM
In what you've written, you appear to be making a distinction between Americans and Jews. Are you, and would you explain why you consider these people to be members of two different groups?
I'm not sure really that there is a need to explain, but I'll do it anyway.
I'm not a multiculturalist, and I don't see anything good coming out of a Balkanized nation. Why not bring up Jews as an example when considering the harms that can come from immigration and foreign loyalties?
Am I making too much of the issue? Possibly, but I doubt it. Even Phil constantly talks of his own trouble assimilating, and he's second or third generation. Yes, there's a difference between most Jews and most WASPs culturally, and apparently ideologically, also. Is that a shock to you?
Do you see a good reason for Americans to internalize the IP situation, or to constantly make false comparisons between the U.S. and Israel, in order to cement a relationship that most Americans could easily do without? Should Americans constantly be forced to hold their history and legitimacy as a people, culture and nation under a microscope so that Jews can have their little civil war over Palestine? That's what many would have us do, and it happens on this site all the time. Is that how you would form a peaceful and just society?
Many people go to great lengths distinguishing between regular Jews and Zionists, but my experiences lead me to believe that Zionism has shaped the Jewsih community significantly, and has broad support among Jews. Again, I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. What happens if I'm right? Am I still a naive and lazy bigot? Could a small minority harm the majority? Should loyalty and assimilation be considered in the immigration debate? What if I am right?
Thank you. Your words provide much to consider. I will probably, but not necessarily, write in response.
Your willingness to discuss your beliefs in answer to a question is much appreciated.