We’ve gotten several emails about Bruce Wolman’s post on his search for an Israeli map showing the Green Line earlier today. One from Lawrence of Cyberia, who writes:
At left is a photo of what the Jerusalem Post shows as “Israel” on its weather map. From this blog in 2005.
And just to be mischievous, a picture of Ismail Haniya of Hamas, who apparently knows very well where the Green Line is! (Orig caption: Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh speaks during a rally in Gaza May 11, 2006. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem)
Also, some thoughts from the Coalition for the Advancement of Jewish Education on the difficulties the PA faces in preparing maps for its schoolbooks, which I came across when I did a long snarky post directed at Hillary Clinton on the subject of the Palestinian Authority schoolbooks controversy:
In 2000, the first and sixth grade textbooks for the new, comprehensive Palestinian curriculum were completed. When I read the books, I found the reticence I had expected. For instance, the books handled the awkward issue of maps in a series of awkward ways. How should Palestine be represented? Was it the patchwork created by the explicitly interim Oslo Accords? Was Palestine the West Bank and Gaza alone—which Palestinian leaders constantly insisted was their vision for their state, but which remained unrecognized? What of areas in pre-1967 Israel ? Were those who fled those areas in 1948 not Palestinian? But if they were Palestinian did their home towns become non-Palestinian at some point? And what of the Arab population that remained? Should the textbooks do what many Palestinians do in order to make these distinctions in conversation—separate “geographic” or “historic” Palestine (the entire territory) from “political” Palestine—the area of the prospective Palestinian state? These issues were difficult for adults to resolve, but the textbook authors were supposed to draw maps for children. The 2000 books tried various approaches. They sometimes resorted to a topographical map to avoid drawing any borders at all. And they also regularly drew a border between Israeli and the West Bank and Gaza —without labeling either side of the border or even explaining what the border was…
About Philip Weiss
Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.
We’ve gotten several emails about Bruce Wolman’s post on his search for an Israeli map showing the Green Line earlier today. One from Lawrence of Cyberia, who writes:
It must really irk the Jewish Israeli, The Chosen Ones, to have such a small piece of land for a country. The anointed ones deserve a country as big as the size of their ego, which is about the size of the universe. It's unfair to settle for anything less.
Irk? Why? That is all the land that God gave us. Why would we want more?
Who do you think we are? Muslims?
I heard an Israeli sociologist put it like this, in 2002 in Berkeley:
Ask any Israeli how many Israelis there are in Israel. They will tell you about 6 or 7 million (note from Leila – Internet search says about 7 million right now). 5.5 million Jewish Israelis, 1.5 million Arab Israelis.
Ask these folks to define the map of Israel and they'll come up with something that looks like that weather map above.
But what about the 2.5 million Palestinians who live in the West Bank, and 1.5 million in the Gaza strip?
Where are they in this population count? Did they disappear? They live inside this map don't they?
Where are they? Are they not human beings that they don't live inside Israel? Do they live inside Israel but they don't deserve to be counted?
Even African slaves counted as 3/5s of a human being in the American census pre-Emancipation. Looks like Palestinians living inside "Israel" are not even 3/5s of a human being. They are big zeros, in this world view.
I say that everybody on that weather map gets a vote. One state. Yes that means the state is now 50% Arab. What, you don't like it? You want to keep counting people as zeroes? What kind of democracy is that?
Funny all those Arabs were fine with being known as Jordanians until Jews liberated the land from an illegal occupation in 1967. If the Arab cause was legitimate, why did it only express itself when Jews returned to their homeland? From where I stand it looks a lot like ugly racism and religious bigotry. What is a green line anyway? The border between Jordan and Israel has been agreed to. It is the center of the river Arab Palestine is named after.
What land did God give them?
Irk? Why? That is all the land that God gave us. Why would we want more?
Are your Jewish? If so, why are you called Chris?
The last time I checked, God wasn't in the business of real-estate. I'd also love to see you trying to explain to the Chinese how and why a God that they don't believe in chose the Jewish people to have Israel.
last time you checked, God wasn't returning your calls. Seems you have no idea what God does. The Chinese understand very well. Perhaps you have a very limited intellect?
If we just refer to "Palestine-Israel", then the historic and modern geography and its people are included.. That might upset Chris though…
Err, I have a good idea. I do know that he doesn't favour a certain race over the other.
I very much doubt the Chinese (and the other 5 billion people in the world that don't believe in the Bible) understand why God gave a certain group of people a land, only to get rid of them and then to give them the land back. Never mind them, you're having a tough time convincing many Christians that God promised you this land in the Bible.
The biblical claim is a little ridiculous, considering the amount of water under the bridge since 1000BC. Not to mention that we live in a different time than even 100 years ago, and democracy is pluralistic by nature. Israel was founded in the wake of de-colonization, like a last ditch effort of imperialism… colonial/political zionism was always a bad idea, so let's be adults and accept that.
Why didn't YHWH make sure his people create some kind of numinous high court, to make other people recognize his laws so something he gives to one of his "own" people is recognized by others, set out the rules for it? He could have unveiled to Moshe the laws* that have to govern such human endeavors, especially of taking something back given a long time ago. He surely must know the future.
Or do you think the monotheist god, deliberately gave different people different stories and laws to make sure they fight their changing e.g. Amalekites forever? If so, would it be a solution, to expand the idea Dana has suggested for the Palestinians, if the whole world converted to the Jewish God? Or could that be considered a rebellious act against the basic structures of violence he actually intended? First kill the unruly dissenters inside and than an endless series of antagonists out there?
* Note to people attracted to devil symbolism. The peculiar horns Michelangelo gave Moses (link above) are the result of a mistranslations adding the wrong vocals and thus changing "shining" into "horns".
"From where I stand it looks a lot like ugly racism and religious bigotry"
In that case your standing in horsehit. Which ain't good.
A weather map as indication of what?
For anyone who is interested in learning more on the Israeli textbooks and their portrayal of Palestinians, I'd suggest reading this from Dr. Nurit-Peled Elhanan, of the Hebrew University School of Education:
http://www.canpalnet-ottawa.org/Nurit-Peled%20Israeli%20Schoolbooks.pdf
Here's a short excerpt from the text:
The entire paper is a good read, giving one a clear picture of the encouragement of racist attitudes among Israeli Jews through Israeli school textbooks, and also illustrates the fine point that Leila made above.
….
ML
Ignoring for the moment that you have little concrete knowledge of what "all those Arabs were fine" with, I continue to find it utterly amazing that people can so completely ignore ordinary human motivation when it involves Palestinians. Jordan, when it annexed the West Bank, gave every Palestinian in the West Bank complete rights of citizenship. Why would you think that the Palestinians, deprived of that right under Israeli rule, and forced to live under a belligerent occupation, shouldn't think that their lives were made measurably worse by Israel's actions in 1967 and since?
And I notice your referral to Israel "liberating" the land. No mention of the people, since of course, the people were not liberated, but rather had their most basic human rights denied by Israel. Why are you proud of that? Is it OK if people are deprived of their rights because they are of the "wrong" ethnicity or religion"? If so, would it be OK for Jews to be deprived of their rights in the US? If your answer to the first question is yes and the second one is no, then you are being inconsistent and inhumane.
@witty
A weather map as indication of what?
are you deliberately obtuse? Do you not notice that any sort of boundaries for gaza and the west bank are missing? Do you see anything similar in maps carried in U.S. papers?
@stevieb,
I don't get it Stevie? Do you think Arab racism and Islamic intolerance are horse shit?
@tree
"Ignoring for the moment that you have little concrete knowledge of what "all those Arabs were fine" with"
I missed the violent intifada, the emergency sessions at the UN, the chants of "death to the Hashemites", the fatwahs authorizing jihad against the occupation, and a lot of other evidence that the Arabs calling themselves Palestinians lost a homeland you are going to fill me in on, huh?
"I continue to find it utterly amazing that people can so completely ignore ordinary human motivation when it involves Palestinians."
I consider it utterly amazing that people continue to ignore Islamic bigotry and Arab racism when it involves the Arabs wishing to be called Palestinians.
"Jordan, when it annexed the West Bank, gave every Palestinian in the West Bank complete rights of citizenship."
Which included what? Land owning males were the only ones allowed to vote in municipal elections, women and share croppers only had the benevolence of a dictatorial monarch to keep them safe. You are missing the point though by reinforcing mine. Israelis are being murdered by the hundreds because of Arab claims that their country was occupied and that the border of that country is the so called Green line that this blog made such a big nothing over. If that line didn't mean anything for 19 years while they were Jordanians what gives them the right to kill over it now? And as you say, they accepted Jordanian citizenship, the borders for Jordan shifted. Since they can't live with those hated Jews as neighbors they should shift with their country where there are none and the same Arabic they speak is spoken.
"Why would you think that the Palestinians, deprived of that right under Israeli rule, and forced to live under a belligerent occupation, shouldn't think that their lives were made measurably worse by Israel's actions in 1967 and since?"
I don't have the time or space to list all the positives. Israeli Jews imposed equality on the gender apartheid system of Eastern Palestine aka Jordan. Women were given the first chance ever to vote in local elections. While the world was struggling Judea and Samaria were experiencing double digit growth, infrastructure was brought to areas long neglected, 5 major universities were built where none had existed, hospitals were built, smaller schools built, there were no check points, no curfews, non-Israeli residents found jobs all over Israel, there were no travel restrictions, no Israeli only roads, and the Jews were willing to give their ancestral lands away for peace.
"And I notice your referral to Israel "liberating" the land."
Since the we constantly hear the mantra that the acquisition of land through war is illegal, the capture of land west of the Jordan, ethnically cleansed of its Jewish inhabitants and annexed by the East Bank Palestinians was an illegal occupation. The land was liberated by Israel. Its current status is correctly labeled disputed, but there is no Green line border.
"No mention of the people, since of course, the people were not liberated, but rather had their most basic human rights denied by Israel."
What basic right was denied? If they were citizens of Jordan they should leave Israel with the shifting border. Jordanian citizenship law accepts any resident of the so called west bank, accept Jews (codified bigotry), of course.
"Why are you proud of that? Is it OK if people are deprived of their rights because they are of the "wrong" ethnicity or religion"?"
You need to ask that of the Jewish residents of Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Gaza…oops, my bad, those Jews were deprived of their rights to breathe. Maybe you can list what real basic rights the Arabs lost? The right to get away with honor killings. The right to discriminate based on religion. The right to impose gender apartheid. The right to lynch Jews without fear of prosecution. I'm curious to compare what they had under a tyranny that they do not have as non-citizen residents of a liberal socialist democracy? A vote? This should be fun.
"If so, would it be OK for Jews to be deprived of their rights in the US?"
You don't seem to have a problem denying Jews a right to a safe country of their own free from threats of genocide by suicidal fanatics that have no desire to accept a Jew as an equal.
Jordanian citizenship includes the right of all Palestinian citizens (42% of all Jordan) to return to their former homelands circa 1948 & 1967.
Michael LeFavour is actually Moshe Leshitzkopf. Not an Aryan bone in his flabby body, just a lot
of gefilte fish swimming up against the morality stream.