It seems like the issue of Palestinian freedoms in Israel proper has come up a few times already today, and I finally want to publish a note that my friend the Queen of Sheba sent to a few friends a few weeks back. She is a European woman, half-Muslim, who worked in Haifa for an NGO. The issue is not whether Palestinian Arabs would prefer life in Israel to life in neighboring countries, a "specious" point Anees of Jerusalem has addressed here before. The point of this post is: What does it mean to be a second-class citizen?
My work here is very difficult. To be honest there isn’t a single day
when I don’t leave work completely depressed, sometimes in tears. The
amount of abuse is at a level that you cannot even imagine unless you
live here.
The majority of my work is with Palestinians living in
Israel. These people suffer the most outrageous discrimination within
a country where they are meant to be equal citizens. There are little
things- for example, when you get your dorms at university they are
given based on a point system, and you get points if you serve in the
military. Since the Palestinians don’t serve, they don’t get points
and they live in the worst dorms. If you want to study medicine there
is a minimum age of 21 for entry, which is how old the Jewish kids are
after 3 yrs of the military, so Palestinian students need to just
waste 3 years waiting if they want to do medicine and end up studying
something else instead. [Palestinians are exempted from mandatory military service; though the IDF has many Druse members] And on top of this there is actually an
exception to the rule and you can start at 18 IF you are endorsed by
the military- so again only Jews. These are the small issues.
Then
there is a place near me which is an Arab village and because the
funding in Arab areas is so much less the government decided not to
fund the public school anymore, and not to provide buses for the
children to go to the nearest town to go to school so a few weeks ago
a 5 year old girl was walking to school and the road passes train
tracks- and the girl was hit and killed by a train. In another area-
the Negev valley- where the Bedouins live- the government says that
because they do not have the deeds to the land that they have been
living on for centuries it will not recognize their towns and
therefore no services are provided. There is one village which has an
electricity pole right in the middle of it, but the village itself has
no running water or electricity.
These are a few among hundreds of things; I could go on for pages, so
if you are interested I can write more about it. The area where I live
in Haifa is the most run-down because it is an Arab neighborhood; so
the government does not repave the roads, fix the pipes, etc.
"IF you are endorsed by the military- so again only Jews." That, by the way is why America's founders wisely decided that no man should be denied the right to bear arms, in a "well regulated militia". Denying access to the advancements and honors conferred by service in the country's Armed Forces to certain groups is an old, but effective way of denying equality. If the US still denied service to, or didn't impose it equally when necessary on, all its citizens, would we be called a "democracy"?
thank you Phillip. I have had friends who spent a great deal of time living with Palestinians over the last 15 years. You could go on for page about the discrimination of the Palestinians and because the MSM will not people should go on for pages.
There is no such thing as "half Muslim". Bu such usage you betray the deepseated Western fascination with race and DNA, going back to the days of dear old Comte de Gobineau.
Some complaints of legal merit (defunding of public schools) and some of functional merit (medical school at 21). Reformable.
Imagine that, preference given to Israelis who serve and protect the country against among others, Palestinians. I would ask the writer to show us one Arab/Muslim country where its minorities are treated with even the most basic decency, never mind how good they have it in Israel despite being at war with Israel. Happy Birthday Israel
Naftali, name one other country besides Israel that gets a massive bank check from Americans every year. Quit trying to change the subject. USA enables israel no strings attached. It does the same with its UN Sec Counsel veto. Again, no other country is enabled by US so.
"Half Muslim" makes no sense, but not for the reason you give. The problem is that Islam is a religion, not an ethnic group. Either you are a believer or you aren't; there is no "half". Your notion of a "deepseated Western fascination with race" is just sort of amusing. Every nation, ethnic group, and religion in the world distinguishes between its members and outsiders. If you think the only racists in the world are European, you can't possibly know much about world history.
There are sure to be euphoric, global celebrations once Israel is destroyed.
Mooser, I was unaware of that connection, while aware of the value many people place in the participation in the US Military of their family members, going back generations in some instances. Such values are important, imo; the pride reinforces and is reinforced by an acceptance of personal responsibility for actions by the State. To be aware of such values is to place trust in one's fellow citizens; when the trust is betrayed, as it was by those typified as neo-conservatives, there is outrage. Interesting times in which the value and purpose, as well as the need for, our Bill of Rights and the Amendments to the Constitution are a matter of concern every day.
Definitely, I am interested in the Queen of Sheba's comments about her experiences. Such information is useful and important to have.
What are you on about. The Arabs in Israel aren't at war with Israel and don't have it 'good'. They're treated like second-class citizens. It's also funny how you claim to be a liberal democracy but then compare yourselves with Arab dictatorships. Why not compare Israel to the US or to European countries? And the Israeli army doesn't protect the country, it kills innocent people under the guise of protecting the country.
There needs to be a line drawn between respecting the work Armed Forces do and glorifying the violence that takes place during a war to such an extent that the unjust and illegal wars are fought against innocent people.
Our founders concluded that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" to insure our militias remain regulated by an armed populous rather than free to turn upon a defenseless one. If you want to dispute their conclusion then please do so directly rather than dancing around the issue misrepresenting them. As for Israel, the ultimate test for military service is loyalty to the Zionist cause, which a few Israeli-Arabs do pledge. I suppose one can call that "democracy" as long as we ignore all the the Jim Crowism against Arabs in Israel proper, and Israelis holding millions of Palestinians under martial law for decades while colonizing their homeland out from under them.
I agree. I have been long lulled by the myth that Israeli Palestinians have equal status with Israeli Jews, and welcome actual examples of the discriminations they face. I suspect that Israel is deeply racist, with Ashkenazim lording it over Sephardim,and they in turn feeling superior to 'town' Arabs, who are superior to the Bedouin at the bottom of the pile. The Druse are used by the Israeli army much as Bushmen were by the Suth Effrikan one, as scouts. (ie, in the most personally dangerous forward positions). If Queen of Sheba 'has pages and pages' to write, then Phil should give her room to do so. If he hasn't got room, then I suggest she sets up her own blog (however irregular her postings) and Phill does his damedest to publicise her efforts.
For the reasons hinted at in my 2nd paragraph, I disagree with the argument that 'half-Muslim' means nothing. It means she has one Muslim parent, of two, That's all. Just as a Northern Irelander could be half Prod, half Taig. If the 'anti-semite' epithet can be used against critics of a small minority (rabid Zionists) of another small minority (Jews) of a huge number of other Semitic peoples (mostly 'Arabs' ) then it can be turned around and used in the opposite direction. Just ask why no Yemeni, Moroccan (or other Maghreb), or Ethiopian Jew has ever achieved high political status in Israel, and then look at Avigdor Lieberman, a 20-year immigrant from Moldova. He's now Foreign Minister – but then, he's Ashkenazi. By the way, was the original Queen of Sheba the last Arab to be made welcome in the 'Kingdom of Israel'?
Get a good laugh at some of the comments, like those by Richard. He happens to know that all 7 million Israelis are racist, never mind that Israel has under great duress brought in millions of immigrants from very diverse cultures and backgrounds. Sure there is racism, Israelis are human like everyone else, contrary to what most of the posters here state. Yet, I defy anyone to show me a country that has had to go through what Israel has and has achieved what it has economically,socially, politically, culturally. Israel has Arab members of the Knesset who very openly and very vocally campaign against Israel. I don't see too many Palestinian Israelis moving to the West Bank or Gaza since its so terrible for them among Jewish Israelis.
Lot of Israel supporters here. The horrible STINK of them is everywhere.
Part 1: "never mind that Israel has under great duress brought in millions of immigrants from very diverse cultures and backgrounds." Yeah, well this "diverse" state would let anyone in except for the native Palestinians of course, who were not allowed to return to their land, because this "diverse" state wanted to be exclusively Jewish. "Yet, I defy anyone to show me a country that has had to go through what Israel has and has achieved what it has economically, socially, politically, culturally." How is that even relevant to this topic? People here are discussing the racism endured by Palestinians of '48, and not Israel's other achievements. Lest we forget that the USA, just like Israel, was found on the dispossession of another people, and while it had a great deal of accomplishments to brag about, they didn't justify or make up for its segregation laws and racist treatment of minorities.
Part 2: "Israel has Arab members of the Knesset who very openly and very vocally campaign against Israel." Yes, and that supposedly revokes all claims of racism mentioned in the article above? Blacks too had the right to vote in the US, but that didn't mean they were not discriminated against. "I don't see too many Palestinian Israelis moving to the West Bank or Gaza since its so terrible for them among Jewish Israelis." How's that a proof of anything? Palestinian Israelis aren't from the West Bank or Gaza. They are the remnants of those who were expelled in 1948 from historic Palestine, and despite the attempts at stifling their lives, they continue to be resilient. Furthermore, life was made a living hell in the occupied territories grace à Israel's ruthless occupation.
Shafiq: I agree. I question whether war ever is 'just.' To do so effectively is going to require a lot of work, which I've barely begun.
Yet, I defy anyone to show me a country that has had to go through what Israel has and has achieved what it has economically,socially, politically, culturally. With $5 billion a year, I think any country could.
What Israel has achieved. No credit to all the gentile nations who helped them, and still do? The State Of Israel and all its activities since then–would never have happened without standing on the power shoulders of gentiles. That is both the plus and minus of gentile enablement. I'm not saying gentile enablement was totally voluntary, but it was to the extent it recognized Hitler went too far & something equitable had to be done for the Jews, but face it, it was also due to zionist moneybags where that has been a chief motive of American politicians since Truman. It is very misleading to think of spunky little Israel as its obvious if it was not sitting atop white gentiles it would have never had got off the ground. The Arabs and Persians had nothing to say about it, even though they were the ones directly impacted. We are trying to deal with this today. Jews, with their concept of "Righteous Gentile" slur all gentiles and their nations, especially in the 20th and 21st Centuries. Of course this is in keeping with the Jewish narrative involving themselves in world history.
It's interesting that every "pro-Israel" supporter NEVER mentions the financial and UN Sec Counsel veto that has so made Israel stronger than it would otherwise be. Where would the Pals be today with such US support? But the Jews give only themselves credit, the punk hiding behind the bully Goliath in the school yard, raising his puny clenched fist. Secretly despising Goliath himself.
Citizen, "But the Jews give only themselves credit…" I don't think using "Jews" is appropriate here; I think the correct term would be Zionists or Israelis. Not all Jews support Israel, or Zionism.
Its no surprise to me to see the hypocrisy and hate among the posters here as regards Jews. After all, they feel free to voice their bigotry on the blog of a Jew who demeans Israel daily. So you get comments like: Lot of Israel supporters here. The horrible STINK of them is everywhere. (Yes, the old stinking Jews comment) Zionist moneybags (Jews and money) (Of course, no one mentions that the Arab countries have way more money than Israel. They prefer to build palaces, and donate money to families of homicide bombers.
Someone mentioned Palestinian dispossesion. Anyone living in pre 1948 Palestine was Palestinian, Jew, Muslim, Christian or other. There was no identifiable and unique Palestinian Arab people. Their Arab brethern said no, we will not accept the UN Partition resolution to allow the Arab population of the area called Palestine to live side by side with the Jews in peace, we will destroy the nanscent state of Israel. Israelis refused to commit suicide and now the Palestinians claim to be victims. In 1967 the mobs in Cairo and Damascus screamed "Slaughter the Jews" and I personally remember that. I can assure you that had Israel lost that or any other war, thats EXACTLY what would have happened. It would make the Muslim on Muslim carnage in Iraq look like a tea party.. Aside from all of the above, I know very well that all these posters could not give a rats ass about the Palestinians just like their Arab brothers could not care less and keep them in camps for 60 years and when they rebel as they did recently in Lebanon, they rain artillery down on them with not a whimper of protest from any of you so-called supporters.
The comments you quoted are clearly directed at Israel's supporters and Zionists, not Jews. Your attempt at depicting people as racist is futile, since it's based on a straw man.
Naftali, I wrote a 2-part reply (above) to your ludicrous post about racism in Israel, and rebutted your claims. You didn't respond to any of my points, and instead picked up one of my side-comments, and began a whole new argument about it. I'm not sure if this is going anywhere, but I'll give your drivel a try: "Someone mentioned Palestinian dispossesion. Anyone living in pre 1948 Palestine was Palestinian, Jew, Muslim, Christian or other." I was clearly referring to the Palestinian Arab refugees who were expelled by Israel in 1947/48. Palestinian is the term commonly used to refer to Arabs from Palestine. The Jewish community was referred to as Yishuv. "There was no identifiable and unique Palestinian Arab people." There was a collective of Arab people with their own unique identity living in Palestine. And even if you are going to argue that the Arab Palestinians didn't have their own identity, how does that justify the mass ethnic cleansing of them and barring them from returning? to be continued…
Naftali, I wrote a 2-part reply to your ludicrous post about racism in Israel, and rebutted your claims. You didn't respond to any of my points, and instead picked up one of my side-comments, and began a whole new argument about it. I’m not sure if this is going anywhere, but I’ll give your drivel a try: "Someone mentioned Palestinian dispossesion. Anyone living in pre 1948 Palestine was Palestinian, Jew, Muslim, Christian or other." I was clearly referring to the Palestinian Arab refugees who were expelled by Israel in 1947/48. Palestinian is the term commonly used to refer to Arabs from Palestine. The Jewish community was referred to as Yishuv. "There was no identifiable and unique Palestinian Arab people." There was a collective of Arab people with their own unique identity living in Palestine. And even if you are going to argue that the Arab Palestinians didn't have their own identity, how does that justify the mass ethnic cleansing of them and barring them from returning?
"Their Arab brethern said no, we will not accept the UN Partition resolution to allow the Arab population of the area called Palestine to live side by side with the Jews in peace, we will destroy the nanscent state of Israel." The UN partition plan allocated more than 50% of Arab land to one third of an immigrant population, and thus was rejected by the natives. Nonetheless the massacring of Palestinians and their dispossession began prior to the war. By the time the Arab armies invaded, almost 400,000 Palestinians were already expelled, and many massacres had already taken place, including the infamous Dir Yassin. After the war, the same the UN that had allocated land to the Yishuv, tried to correct its original sin by issuing Resolution 194 , which granted the refugees the right to return. Of course, Israel refused because it wanted to maintain a Jewish majority. "Israelis refused to commit suicide and now the Palestinians claim to be victims." Palestinians are victims because they were expelled and denied the right to go back to their lands. It had nothing to do with suicide; more to do with the desire of Israel to keep the non-Jewish population at a minimum.
"In 1967 the mobs in Cairo and Damascus screamed "Slaughter the Jews" and I personally remember that. I can assure you that had Israel lost that or any other war, thats EXACTLY what would have happened." Zionist hoodlums have always screamed about killing Palestinian Arabs and not allowing them to go back to their lands. I not only remember, but I continue to see it and hear it today in the action and rhetoric of their leaders. If the Palestinians were allowed to return, there would've probably been no '67 or other wars for that matter.
“Aside from all of the above, I know very well that all these posters could not give a rats ass about the Palestinians just like their Arab brothers could not care less and keep them in camps for 60 years and when they rebel as they did recently in Lebanon, they rain artillery down on them with not a whimper of protest from any of you so-called supporters.” No, you don’t know anything too well, least of all about the posters here. The crimes of Arab regimes are abhorred and are protested at by the supporters of Palestinians, in the same way the crime of the state of Israel are abhorred and rejected. Of course, no state's crime makes the other acceptable.
See, Rykart, what happens? We aren't in Phil's living room, although some times it seems like it. It is a public arena. To me the situation reminds somewhat of a non-violent protest; tactics are required: one controls events by not losing control of one's temper. Were you responding to the picture of the bloodied child on Richard P.'s website? I seem to recognize your feeling sometimes, your words remind me of my rage each day on reading the news about events in Gaza at the beginning of the year. But people who come here looking for antisemitism, which must seem almost a forbidden thrill to those who rarely encounter it, aren't thinking about the sickening feeling that comes when one reads of people dieing from white phosphorous burns, when they read such words. They're looking for connections to strengthen Lerner's fallacy of association – this time (stink) more likely to make a connection with people who call the police pigs. Doing so strenthens their bond with Israel and their defenses against other views of Israel.
"aren't thinking about the sickening feeling that comes when one reads of people dieing from white phosphorous burns" Israel does not show the bloodied bodies of victims of terror. What do you think the childrens bodies killed in the Sbarro pizzeria bombing looked like? What do you think the bodies of those killed at the Passover dinner in Netnaya looked like? How about the 13 children killed in the Coastal Road Bus terror attack? How about this one "20 May 1970 12 killed, 19 injured (mostly children) in attack on school bus with three bazooka rockets" or this one "15 May 1974 27 killed, 134 injured in attack on Ma'alot; terrorists killed 2 people in initial attack and took 90 children hostage; most casualties were inflicted by the terrorists during a rescue attempt in which 20 children and 1 soldier were killed (along with all three terrorists" I could go on for pages…….
The vast majority of Jews support Israel, but I guess they are all brainwashed racist idiots as per commentators on this blog. The vast majority of Israelis supported the long overdue action in Gaza, with many saying it did not go far enough, but what do they know, they are all racist idiots, right.
pretty much, yeah
And pages upon pages are easily composed of the thousands of Palestinians dead, maimed, dispossessed, detained or otherwise subjected to an an untenable situation: being Israel's number one enemy. Line up the victims; to do so demonstrates Israel's o'erweening use of power against a captive population. The dead have no nationality; the tears of the Israelite and the Arab come from the same water.
naftali: Those who claim greater privilege to rights because of ethnicity are racists; those who don't aren't. There are other forms of adverse discrimination, also. To call those who support Israel's military policies idiots would be to underestimate them. I don't. I consider them dangerous.
Right, and if I was to say that the vast majority of Palestinians support terror, support honor killings, support Jihad, you would get all upset and call us racists. Its however perfectly ok for you to call the vast majority of Jews racists for supporting Israel. You and your cohorts here know it all, we Israelis know nothing, right?
More to the point is to take apart your argument: what proof do you have of your assertions regarding the Palestinians? There is no reason to believe them, some reason even without further investigation to conclude you will not be able to muster support for what you say. Are you saying that the support you assert the Palestinians give to etc. is something uniquely Palestinian, and inherent to the state of being born of a race of Palestinians? If so, I would consider such a perspective racist. Wouldn't you?
By supporting Israel as a Jewish state, you disenfranchise all the Arabs that live (or lived), which is racist. The vast majority of Palestinians don't care about Jihad or honour killings (honour killings aren't even a Palestinian thing). Whereas a thought-process has gone into my accusation, in your's there hasn't.