Earlier today we mentioned Netanyahu's three adlibbed conditions for Palestinian self-government. From the transcript of his press conference: "If, however, the Palestinians recognize
Israel as the Jewish state, if they — if they fight terror, they
educate their children for peace and to a better future, then I think
we can come to a substantive solution that allows the two peoples to
live side by side in security and peace."
A friend's response:
The first condition, about calling it "the Jewish state," is merely picturesque and denominational; a piece of sentiment meant for no other purpose than to show what monstrous deniers the people are who would not oblige. The second and third conditions are absurdly insubstantial, vague, almost metaphorical. They are what the philosophers call indefeasible–impossible to see what actions would confirm and what would disappoint such a request. To arrive in the U.S. as unprepared as this is a calculated insult. Like a mobster asking a reform police commissioner, "What do you mean by drugs, and what do you mean by bootleg?"
Thanks for this. I think Netanyahu's whole posture during this was arrogant and insulting. Not only was he willing to not concede anything, the right-wing Israeli govt seems intent on sabotaging any hope of a peace process – at least a real one- think about it- what is the predictable, and understandable under the circumstances, response going to be from not only more radical Islamic groups and states, but also more moderate ones? They will be offended too. And why in the world does the PA or any Palestinian have to recognize Israel as a *Jewish* State, versus simply recognize Israel's right to exist? Such a condition will help ensure the peace process never gets off the ground. Not only would 'Bibi' not say the word(s) "two state", he refused to commit to even trying to stop settlements expansions. The whole meeting was an insult not only to Obama, but to all of us who pay taxes in this country- a great deal of which apparently go to Israel's defense and paying the bill for bombing the shit out of Gaza. With those funds should come some strings attached- ie. if the PA have to make concessions, then so does Israel!
While I agree that the new demand of recognizing Israel 'as a Jewish state' is a stalling tactic, I'm not sure that's all it is. Meaning we are increasingly at a point where the 2 state solution is in doubt. If the Israeli government can get the Palestinians to agree that Israel is a Jewish state, than if the Palestinian statehood never materializes, than the Israelis can say, 'Well yes, we are one state. It is a Jewish state, and as such you (non-Jews) are without full rights, as you've agreed in recognizing 'Israel as a Jewish state'. It sounds devious but it's actually exactly what we have now- a de-facto one state with full rights only for Jews. There could be a method to this seemingly obfuscatory tactic.
Israel has dug itself into a deep deep hole by refusing to negotiate honestly. You now have too many generations born into this quagmire and it has become monstorously complicated. My god, Likud funded Hamas during the 1st Infatada. They have screwed themselves in hundreds of ways. Wouldn't negotiate with Arafat ("not a partner for peace") I bet they would have said the same of Gandhi. Israel has avoided serious negotiations until they have to or I suspect Israel will go down in flames. They must get off their schmaltzy asses.
I am with Bibi: a one state solution for both Jews and Arabs residing in Israel. One can only wish Bibi well – for everything he does hastens that eventuality.
Unfortunately, no one with real power in Congress or the Govt will dare come out and say Bibi wasn't negotiating in good faith or even that his refusal to talk about a "two state" solution was a total slap in the face to Obama and this country. How sad when one, big, powerful, monied lobby not only controls our government, but the whole prospect for peace in the mid-east.
Why should weanyone surprised that Netanyahu passes gas while breaking bread with Obama for the first time. Obama, are you stunned at the way you were dissed today? Shucks, Bibi has the US Congress in his back pocket! Jane Harman says "screw Obama" — we have a "special relationship" that goes back 60 years! AIPAC says, Obama's a wussy. He let Chas Freeman get garrotted without a single word. His Justice Depatment let traitorous spies Weissman and Rosen go despite the career prosecutors saying they had a case more rock-solid than Jonathan Pollard's. Obama said nothing while the IDF's Operation Kill Kids targeted innocent Muslims in Gaza with US taypayer-paid weaponry.
Bibi is betting that the US is all locked up with money from the nouveau riche Leviev-Adelson American-Zionists and that Obama is a mere ceremonial figurehead who can spout platitudes about "change we can believe in" but, hey, the US Congress is utterly corrupt — check out that AIPAC authored letter "co-signed" by Steny Hoyer and Eric Cantor. Obama, do you have the cojones to go up against that kind of corruption? Are you willing to risk the 60% of donations to the Democratic Party given by progessive Jews who expect the party to support Israel, even if it dehumanizes Palestinian children and coldly incinerates them in an attempt to steal their parents' land?____Well, guess what? That's why we elected you, bro. Change you can believe in? Hey, it's not easy, but the entire world is on your side. Get tough. Threaten sanctions against Israel. Suspend the "special relationship." Propose NATO peacekeepers to allow aid into Palestine. You thought this would be a cakewalk? Man up and throw this corrupt Israeli scumbag under the bus! This is your moment to change the course of history. Don't waste a moment.
a one state solution for both Jews and Arabs residing in Israel. No "hastening" required. It's already here!
Now we have to figure out what to do with Gaza, Samaria, and Judea
When there is an honest palestinian partner for peace, we'll get off our schmaltzy ass. Until then, tough shit for you.
A great deal? Less then 3/10 of 1 percent. A drop in the bucket. Send me your address and I'll give you your 50 cents back.
50 cents? There are 140 million taxpayers in this country.
As Tony Karon wrote, if the Satmar Hasidim don’t recognize Israel as a “Jewish State”, why should the Palestinians?
*RE: " The whole meeting was an insult not only to Obama, but to all of us who pay taxes in this country- a great deal of which apparently go to Israel's defense and paying the bill for bombing the shit out of Gaza." *TAKE ACTION TO END THE OCCUPATION Send a personalized letter (E-mail) to the Members of Congress on the Appropriations Subcommittee. Let these Members of Congress know that you oppose the President's FY2010 budget request for $2.775 billion in military aid to Israel. *TO SEND YOUR LETTER (E-mail) – http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/641/t/2439/c...
Actually, I think its what philosophers call defeasible, but maybe I'm mistaken. I thought indefeasible was like unalienable.
Total aid package each year to each Israeli Jew amounts to more federal aid than our government gives per capita to each American. Israel gets 20% of ALL US foreign aid; the balance is left for the rest of the entire world, including whole continents–minus the annual 2 billion Egypt gets simply for playing nice with Israel. That's like giving all the people in the soup kitchen a tea spoon of soup after they have each cleaned the kitchen floor with a toothbrush, except for the tiniest begger, who get's the giant vat of soup left on the stove for nothing, simply for being there. Nobody's supposed to notice.
What if the Pal leader said, "Yes, we do recognize that the state of Israel as it currently exists is a democracy for Jews, who are 80% of the population."
That's exactly what Obama should tell Israel, especially since it has never been an honest partner for peace since 1948.
Let's give them homes in upstate NY.
Obama wants most to help black Americans (second, help single moms); he must know blacks in general are very critical of American foreign policy in the Third World. I'd say he feels he needs to humor his AIPAC constituency until he is assured of a second term–of course by then he may have humored them by inadvertently shoe-horning us all into a war with Iran.
Why did the release of the aid package to Israel depend upon their effort toward peace? They have 30 billion to be received for the next 10 years, so why should they listen?
Jacobwolfson- to try to pass off US aid to Israel as insignificant is laughable- if they are so self sufficient and our aid a del in the bucket then perhaps they don't really need it? And now the $$ the US is paying (900 million) to clean up gaza so that Israel can retainits special status as "occupier" without all those annoying strings (ie. Responsibilities) attached- aid, which btw Israel doesn't see fit to let through to Gaza.
There can't be an honest partner, since if you were in their place you would return to older yishuv methods too? Right?
Obama wants most to help black Americans evidence, citizen. This feels like a pure projection. I've seen nothing like this on his programs so far. If I missed something. I'd be pleased if you could point it out to me.
Readers, financial subsidies for Israel are much greater than the oft-quoted mythical $3 billion per year. Every dollar we give them for another purpose frees up a dollar of their own to spend on ethnic cleansing and colonization of the occupied Palestinian territories. See Chapter 1 of The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy.
Giving a copy of "Innocents Abroad" sent a pretty clear insult message. "Hey Obama! You're an innocent! Abroad! Hahaha." It was all down hill from there.
I guarantee that if someone asked Obama what happened to the Jewish population of Hebron in August of 1929, he'd draw a blank. If you asked, "Who owned more of the land in 1948, Jews or Arabs?" He wouldn't know that in fact the Jews owned a slightly larger percentage than Arabs. If you were to ask him "which came first, terror or occupation?" He probably isn't aware of the hundreds of Arab attacks on Jewish civilians in the 1950's, more than a decade before the 1967 war. MondoWeiss is blind when it comes to the Palestinian terror education issue. Anyone criticizing Bibi’s request to “fight terror and educate their children for peace” by calling it “absurdly insubstantial” is themselves absurdly blind to the root causes of terror. Arab-Palestinian Terror was around long before the security occupation came into effect in 1967. Arabs murdered Jews during riots in the 1920’s & 1930’s and during hundreds of terrorist attacks on civilians in the 1950’s. The British did little to prevent these attacks and the Jews had to form their own defense forces. This is the sole reason settlements remain today. The thousands of Jews that were driven off of THEIR native land in Hebron, Gaza, Jericho, Jerusalem and other cities prior to 1948 are ignored and forgotten in this conflict. Palestinians still use brainwashing indoctrination on children from the moment of birth & racist television programs for children to ensure there never will be peace. Imagine what the world would be like if Nazi propaganda was still prevalent in the middle east… oh wait it is ! It never went away after Palestinian leaders like Mohammad Amin al-Husayni allied themselves with Nazis. Talk about irony, the 1st Palestinian leader was a Nazi war criminal! I guess they are sort of responsible for the Holocaust… http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Histo... http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Histo...
When there is an honest Israeli politician, you might have to learn to be honest yourself — but there isn't much danger of that.
Blimey, more Holocaust drivel. Will it never end?
No. Nor should it.
Indeed. Obama should demand the Palestinians act honestly.
No need as long as the palestinians refuse to produce an honest politician.
Except it isn't given to every Israeli jew. So your comment was rather meaningless.
Except Israel spends no money on ethnic cleansing.
It is insignificant as compared to the rest of the US budget. But i'll gladly send you your 50 cents back.
So what? Are you pretending to be stupid?
Except Israeli jews do not get the money.
Except there is no money spent on ethnic cleansing.
No.
Daniel Bar-Tal found that ‘in most Israeli textbooks, throughout the educational system, Arabs are depicted as “Murderers”, “Villains”, and “Blood Lovers”’. (Pappe,A History of Modern Palestine, 2nd ed., pp. 302–3, n. 15.