Lots more to come on the Obama/Netanyahu meeting. Here is a transcript, here is a video, now for some more initial impressions.
One moment that stood out was Netanyau's answer to the direct question whether he supports the two-state solution. He responded, "On the front of peace the important thing to me is to resume negotiations as rapidly as possible, and my view is less one of terminology but one of substance."
Regarding that substance, he gave an incredibly awkward answer. These discussions usually begin with a list of conditions that Palestinians have to meet before Israel will even consider talking with them. The conditions Netanyahu listed were: 1. Recognize Israel as "the Jewish state", 2. Fight terror and 3. "educate their children for peace and to a better future." Honestly, the latter two almost seemed ad-libbed after an agonizingly long pause.
And where did "educate their children for peace" come from? The third point of the Quartet's demands for the Palestinians that is commonly cited is "abide by previous Israeli-Palestinian agreements." Netanyahu's vague "education" demand has never been part of any international understanding, and only seems to relate to the right-wing talking point about the Palestinian education system which is used to try to establish "there is no partner for peace" (and has been discredited).
Netanyahu promises "the terminology will take care of itself if we have a substantive understanding." Now only if he'll start addressing the real issues.
Related posts:
- Can Netanyahu have an ‘economic peace’ with Palestinians without political changes?
- Netanyahu will educate Americans about Israel’s true character. But at what cost?
- The lobby parrots Netanyahu on the Jewish civil right to Palestinians’ homes
- Warm n fuzzy Netanyahu hugs Obama and peace, but nuthin about a Palestinian state
- In political blunder, Netanyahu said to have dissed Jewish peace groups
{ 99 comments }
And don't forget driving lessons for Palestinian drivers! Benny Morris insists! If they don't improve their driving, no state for you lot, so there!
If Palestinians recognize Israel as "the Jewish state", will they be able to negotiate their disputed border conflicts?
Gosh, takes at least a decade to get educated. Let's see what Bibi says later in the evening, and tomorrow. Threats of going it alone against the Palestinian mal-educated terrorists?
What about Holocaust indoctrination for Palestinian children? See Bringing Holocaust Religion to Arabs.
Netanyahu is the one who needs to educate his people — and himself — for peace, instead of perpetually scapegoating "Amalek" in all his supposed manifestations for their never-ending troubles through space and time.
No half measures. Palestinians *must* also recognize: 1. Coke, as the "real thing"; 2. America as the "land of the free"; and last, but not least, 3. The Obama administration as "change we can believe in". As a concession, they will nolonger have to recognize Libya as "Great Socialist People's Arab Jamahiriya" whatever the heck *that* is…
Sure he does. He needs to lead his people to adopt peaceful ways so that the palestinians can slaughter them at will. Go ply your trade at Nazi conventions, Ed. Nobody who counts is buying your bullshit.
I don't know, but their charter declares that they will be an Islamic state.
Hello? Education for tolerance and co-existence is vital. According to survey released today by an Arab professor at Haifa University, 40% of Arabs who are citizens of Israel do not believe that the Holocaust happened in WII. Among Arabs who are not citizens of Israel, so-called Palestineans, this figure is dramatically higher. So long as Pal children are taught "Itbach al Yahud" (slaughter the Jews) and "Allahu Akhbar" (Allah is greater than your god), then there will be no peace. The Palestinean Authority has done everything it can to perpetuate the conflict with the Jews and Netanyahu's pre-requisite is perfectly reasonable and productive.
Israeli children have not been educated about peace. The atrocities Israeli soldiers committed in Gaza, and their T-shirts, are an indictment against peace education's efficacy in Israel.
For you, maybe. Not for Americans. As for your last statement, you wont find much agreement here except among extremist right-wing types. We're frankly fed-up with your bullshit. 61 years is long enough to keep people in camps.
I'm not the one who originated the idea; it was Jeffrey Goldberg working together with Netanyahu himself: Israel’s Fears, Amalek’s Arsenal http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/opinion/17goldb... BTW, Jacob, why are you posting on an Amalek site? Aren't you worried of catching cooties or something?
*RE: Netanyahu comes up with new prerequisite for statehood: Palestinians need to 'educate their children for peace' *TAKE ACTION TO END THE OCCUPATION Send a personalized letter (E-mail) to the Members of Congress on the Appropriations Subcommittee. Let these Members of Congress know that you oppose the President's FY2010 budget request for $2.775 billion in military aid to Israel. *TO SEND YOUR LETTER (E-mail) – http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/641/t/2439/c...
The Holocaust didn't happen as or why Zionists claim. See French priest interviews Hitler's willing executioners in Ukraine . I have been arguing for over 10 years that there were two separate Holocausts: Jewish Peril: 1933 Versus 2009. Of course, the Haaretz article does not discuss why E. European and Soviet populations wanted to kill Jews so badly for reasons completely unconnected to the German Nazis or Hitler. If my analysis is too difficult for an ethically challenged Zionist interloper living in Jerusalem, here is a shorter article from YNET: Stalin's Jews.
Isn't it a requirement for the children of Israel to join Israel's military forces where the main function is to "police" the Palestinians and Arabs? What do the polls of Israeli jews and jewish children show is the attitude toward Palestinians, Arabs and Persians?
Every religion thinks its deity is greater than other religion's deities. Jews think YWH is greater than every other religion's god(s). Christians think Jesus' forgiveness is the only path to salvation. It is not unusual for Muslims to think Allah is the one true god, after all they learned about monotheism from the Jews.
:-)
You should also read The Pattern of Ethnic Ashkenazi Genocidalism: The Jewish Century by Yuri Slezkine.
That is very, very interesting to me. I know how American Zionist-supporters get their information. I wonder what the channels of information and persuasion are in Israel. Especially for those who do not speak English.
See what I mean, Ed? Where do Jacobwolfen's delusions come from?
"after all they learned about monotheism from the Jews." Good point.
Yeah Jake in Jerusalem, that makes perfect sense. Sure, if only all the Arabs knew about the Holocaust, they would say: Oh, isn't it terrible what the Germans did to the Jews, know I understand why we, the Palestinians should be punished for it. So the problem is that the Arabs don't feel the proper sympathy for the poor persecuted Jews who just had the assistance of all the great powers England, Soviet Union, US, and more, in pushing their way onto their land? Sure, that makes sense, to a Zionist.
Pity the children!
thanks for the laugh ;-)
Next step. Denial of the holocaust. Figures. :-(
Typical response of a stormfront advocate.
No it isn't. Are you saying that palestinians are not Arabs?
The Arabs do know about the holocaust. At least the educated ones do.
Scroll down to the searched items on Ukraine. Russian Roots There were extensive connections between "White" Russians and the Nazis or anti-Bolshevik forces. This connection was so strong that the German troops didn't move on to Moscow but made a detour to the Ukraine. Were do you think they got the German munition from? How do you squeeze the fact that there were pogroms stirred by the Black Hundreds, ultimately Czarists, long before the revolution?
Israelis are drafted into the Israel DEFENCE Forces. Hamas and the PLO make their own CHILDREN into Jihadi suicide-bombers who have only one holy commandment: kill infidels. I know you hate Jews and are happy with the Palestinean actions… but it will come to get you, too, as soon as they can manage it. Remember 9/11…
1) There WERE no atrocities. The recent accusation were made by an Israeli anarchist and Palestinean sympathizer who did time in jail for refusing orders. Baseless accusations… which you somehow quote. Prouid Ignorantia that you are….
What you trying to prove by citing a 1920 Churchill text? Look you are buying in a myth that was the main propaganda weapon. Joachim this is really sick. In the same year they printed the Protocols in England in the newspaper. People initially believed them. What pulls you into the mad mindset of these times? The Jews ultimately guilty for the Holocaust, since some of them joined the Revolutionaries in Russia or Communists and Social Democrats on German ground? Look at the larger context. Jews had been scapegoated in Russia before. Look at Witte, a non-Jew, who simply for having Jewish friends, and being occupied with economics and modernization was targeted long before the revolution. He was basically trying to modernize Russia. Please Joachim, this makes me sick. If he had succeeded it may have well prevented a revolution. Look at the two last Czars, look closely.
This point is very important and bears clarification. Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism are non-exclusionary; they accept that non-believers can be good people without accepting THEIR gospel truth. Christianity and Islam are supercessionist – they grew out of previous religions that they have a theological need to destroy. This is why Islam and Christianity have been at war with each other for centuries. Muslims cry out "Allahu akbar" (Allah is greater than your god) precisely when they slaughter the infidel kaffir. This is their war cry when beheading prisoners, when flying into office buildings, when blowing themselves up. By killing you, they demonstrate (to themselves, at least) that your god cannot protect you and this reconfirms their belief that Allah is the superior god. Thus, you must either accept Allah or die. The earlier you recognize this, the more chance you have of surviving in the end…. Or, you can ignore it all and pretend that "Islam is the religion of peace".
You display your ignorance of history. In WW II, the Jews had no state and no political power. The Allies specifically did not blow up rail lines to the concentration camps so that more Jews would be killed. At the same time, Hajj Amin al Husseini, the highest Islamic Sheikh in Jerusalem, spent most of WW II in Germany, planning to bring Hitler's techniques to the Middle East. And the Arabs are continuing Hitler's work to this day…
I agree with you. The so-called Palestineans who have been denied all rights in every single Arab state should be freed and let out of their camps, given citizenship and allowed to study and work. It's time for the Arab persecution of the Palestineans to end. It's nice to know we agree so wholeheartedly.
Let's get one thing straight. I don't hate jews or Israelis. In fact, I have always loved them and loved Israel. I am simply one of the vast number of Americans who woke up after the Iraq war fiasco and started taking a hard look at our foreign policy. I didn't like what I saw. I discovered that Israel wasn't what I thought it was and that they were behind the demonization of Arabs and now Persians and all Muslims. Then I discovered the truth about Israel and the Palestinians. It has been a long process and there has been a lot of propaganda in the way and myths to clear up. But it's very, very ugly. And when an average American like myself is horrified by the actions of Israel and angry about its influence on America and comes to realize that Israel doesn't share our values, Israel is in big trouble.
If you wish to justify your own paranoid view of the world you should just spend your time with Thors and Ed — they are the local antisemites that Phil tolerates and will feed you with all the self righteousness that you obviously need to oppress and massacre Palestinian victims.
What did the Israelites say when they slew the Caananites?
Thank you for your reply. First you suggest (strongly) that Israeli youths are required to "police" the Pals. When I point out that they are a defence force and that Arabs are actually more free in Israel than anywhere else in the middle east, you tthen ell us that you are "horrified by the actions of Israel" – though you only re-inforce your own ignorance of the facts! Plainly you have no idea what the actions of the parties in the Middle East are! Face it – you hate Israel, you do not have a hold on the facts at all, you subscribe to loony-left Israel-obsessed postings and you want to blame everything on the Jews. So far, you haven't convinced me of anything else.
Every minority has experienced pogroms of one kind or another since the dawn of mankind; only Jewish supremacists leverage their "persecution" (and as we have seen, "persecution" to them can be something as insignificant as a sideways glance) into validation for implementing and executing State-centered initiatives of mass murder, as the Bolsheviks did, and as the Zionists have done on a smaller scale. The only reason that we understand the injustice of the Zionist enterprise to the extent we do is because of the internet and because some people have doggedly pursued the Palestinians' side of the story through the fog of misinformation and lies emitted by the Jewish supremacist propaganda machine. Prior to WWII, the anti-Bolsheviks had no such Western champions, nor the means of disseminating their side of the story. And just as plenty of Western useful idiots have bought into Zionism, so to did many Western useful idiots buy into Bolshevism, even after WWII when it was clear the kind of chaos and mass murder it engendered.
the factrs are the zionist have no rights to any land and must pay trillions in reparations or they can suffer the results as will their supporters in the usa zionist administration which will come to an abrupt end with the release. The traders and sellouts of palestine must be delt with swiftly including abb ass /. The point that if what is going around is in fact true all the zionist and lobbist in the usa groups and the occupation will end but will cost the palestinians as well. The stage was set already for this action and I wonder why they did not do it after the genocide of gaza. what a way to end the millions of zionist and their supporters…pretty dammmed if you think about it. But the end result will be freedom of the zionist cause they won't be alive to fly the weapons or use them..what about the federal reserve and the bankers shouldn't they get their deserts too.
I give up. Tell us….
The truth of what zionist israel teaches their kids and what the uncontrolled taliban settlers want israel's bibi can not or will not stop. It is a far cry from what the world believes. As for the supporting evangelicas in the usa they will have to choose the truth or deal with the wrath.
Psalm 137:9
In the past 25 years or so, about 3 million Muslims have been slaughtered in the Middle East – butchered in the most horrifying manner possible. Almost 100% of those Muslims were killed by other Muslims. This has happened in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan, Libya and the Palestinean Authority – just to mention a few spots. The total contribution to this figure by Israel, USA, UK etc is negligible. So when you speak of "state-centered initiatives of mass murder", you must be speaking of the Arab regimes. Right? Or have we missed something?
Sure, just like Richard Witty and his ilk are simply trying to modernize America and the Middle East.
Prouid Ignorantia Enantiodromia
Ok, I admit there is a grain of truth in your first paragraph. But that Jews were among the Bolshevik murderers doesn't mean they can't be blamed for all the evil done. I do think its more easy concerning the Nazis and their collaborators. Do you know what percentage of Russian Jews, (or European Jews if you want to study the whole evil left camp?) we are talking about? What percentage would justify collective punishment? Or are you ultimately only attacking Jewish "victimology"? It's use for exemption? The second part is wrong though. The white Russians whose US network was connected with Henry Ford had obviously quite good channels to propagate their hoaxes and tales. And they were well funded. As they were parts of the former Czarist elites among a sea of Russian peasants. Hitler surely was interested in the money flows that came from there. They supported their diverse future Czars, who among others funded them. And these people were well connected in the European nobility circles and elites another good funding source. This is the network behind the propaganda you prefer. But they were actually only Janus faces of each other, fighting for power. And blaming the Jews for Bolshevism was their trump card. As they mirrored their own wish for power and control into the Jewish conspiracy. My problem is this. If you use the extreme right propaganda of the 20's and 30's as a proof that we see something similar now, than it is justified to talk about a "new antisemitism". It is not similar now, Israel relies so solidly on the support of the US since the Holocaust happened. And that the US freed the surviving European Jews surely is the jewel in its crown. Power has shifted quite a bit. Or do you consider Daniel Pipes, Horowitz, Ledeen et al as leftists or Bolsheviks? Does this sound leftist to you?
"police" the Palestinians and Arabs? may I help you jacobwolfen? This is shorthand telling us that the Israeli conflict with the Palestinians seems to spin out into wanting to nuke the whole Arab world into surrender. In other words "police" them. Try out the money sources. But yes, besides the fact you recognize so well, that we are all terrorist-lovers and thus Israel-haters, we know that an Arab Jew is not an Arab Jew but an Oriental Jew. As we do basically know that there is something really evil about the Arab Mind. And that they are about to take over the world and kill us all.
I dated an IAF pilot before I married a USAF pilot. I thought Avi was dreamy and Israel was all that. Then the Iraq war happened and I needed the truth. And I've changed my mind about Israel, her "defense" forces and what she has done to her citizens. And I don't have to convince you. You have to convince me. And you are not convincing me. Shamefully, I supported the Iraq war. I turned in early 2004. The rest of the American people turned after me but turn they did. If the American public follows me in turning against Israel, Israel is in big trouble because we will use a politician's position on Israel, like we used their positions on Iraq, as our measurement of how to vote. If Israel continues to insist that the US demonize all Muslims, attack Iran and support Israel's horrific treatment of the Palestinians, the public and the politicians will turn just like I have. That's a fact.
There is a deeper irony: Arabs are actually more free in Israel than anywhere else in the middle east. During the cold war religion was considered a good medicine against communism in the ME. Now the fact that Arabs are less free in the Middle East has much to do with the Islamists. Do you want them to take over? Algeria went quite through hard times in this respect. Egypt has a problem too. Do you have the impression Palestinians are indistinct from other Arab masses, or do you think their very special history has created indeed something new: The Palestinian people with their very distinct history.
the poor persecuted Jews who just had the assistance of all the great powers England, Soviet Union, US, and more, in pushing their way onto their land? the ultimate trump card. This one person makes all Palestinians Nazis, right? What about the many, many cooperations–partly necessary–between the Nazis and the European Jews and/or the Yishuv?
Jacob, Please do not try to divert from the fact that Zionists(Jews and non-Jews) have always referred to Israel as a Jewish state and that they are trying to force the native Palestinians into recognizing Israel as a Jewish state. Personally I do not see Israel as a Jewish state, I see it as a Zionist state that pretends to be Jewish…What is claimed in the Hamas charter applies to Hamas members, not all Palestinians and it is subject to being altered or amended since it is just a charter for a certain group of Palestinians and does not represent them all… I am curious, does the Israeli constitution refer to Israel as a Jewish state? Israel does have a constitution, doesn't it ?
Sadly, Zionists will believe anything that will help justify their past, present, and future aggressions against the Palestinians, Arabs, and Iranians….
'My problem is this. If you use the extreme right propaganda of the 20's and 30's as a proof that we see something similar now, than it is justified to talk about a "new antisemitism".' Claims of anti-semitism are already being utilized as a pretense to justify everything Israel does. No one is using extreme right propaganda; the are investigating history. The record of the Jewish role in Soviet mass murder was swept under the carpet, and that has also enabled ongoing Zionist crimes because it convinced Jewish authoritarians and supremacists that they could get away with murder and the world could be made to look the other way with the right balance of intimidation, rhetoric, propaganda and political pressure. It is those who want to suppress, bury or berate true history out of political expedience, political correctness and leftist and statist dogma that are a big part of the problem. LeaNder, this means you.
I question your numbers, both Muslim on Muslim and Western + Israel on Muslim. But if Muslims are killing Muslims out of some innate flaw in Islam, there is nothing anyone can do about it except containment. But Zionists seem to believe America is obliged to invade and occupy the Middle East not out of any love of Muslims, but to act as Israel's perpetual bodyguard and enabler. Zionists don't care how many American lives this will cost, nor whether America can even afford to do it without bankrupting itself. In short, they don't value American life. So why should Americans have any regard for Zionist lives?
For those of you who doubted a previous comment about rampant anti-semitism on this blog, please see Able's post above. Its comments like these which lessens this blogs impact and legitimacy. Able, I'd like to be the first person to thank you for your hatred. its thoughts, words, and deeds like yours and people like you which gave the Jews Israel. If there weren't people like you we wouldn't need a state of our own. Todah Rabah mother fucker!
maybe I don't really understand this. I am unable to.
The record of the Jewish role in Soviet mass murder was swept under the carpet It depends on what you consider "the Jewish role" the 20's, 30's right wing propaganda myth or the reality. They aren't quite the same. I do not object at all to studying it, quite the opposite, I think it is necessary. I object to its use as propaganda, and that usually is only the mythical part. One should recognize the difference between myth and reality. Propaganda is no true history. Why confront what you call propaganda with counter-propaganda and not with solid facts? Give me an example of any group on earth, that if it happened to be overrepresented in a special movement could be the basis of a similarly effective propaganda. That's the point. And yes what raised public attention then, were quite a few Jewish voices who proudly witnessed their high presence among the more prominent members of the revolutionary forces. In Hungary, if I remember correctly, Jews were really a majority.Around Béla Kun As the Nazis were connected to fascists there. If I remember well that was part of the secret lines of operation towards the Ukraine. These networks go back to WWI. I simply have no idea on which side I would have been. In hindsight on none. But that's too easy. political correctness I don't care much about political correctness. I had problems with conforming to rules all my life. … But as a human being I don't especially like the "image of the Arab" admittedly spread by hawkish pro-Israel circles, and Pipes often makes me sick.And yes it reminds me of Nazi propaganda.
Zionists are probably the worst "deniers" there could be. I mean, they exhibit all the same racist/ethnocentric/nationalistic behavior of the Nazis. The Holocaust is a religion to these freaks. They shove it down peoples throat for purely political reasons.
Your history doesn't hold significance on the issues today. Netanyahu is going to lose this argument. Americans are fed up with the bullshit, and they are quickly realizing that Israel is not an ally that respects the United States.
They didn't say much but they were singing, "This land is my land, your land is my land!"
"I object to its use as propaganda…Give me one example of any group on earth, that if it happened to be overrepresented in a special movement could be the basis of a similarly effective propaganda." Primarily the Jewish apparatus and Left-Statists have leveraged Christianity's ambiguous and allegedly outsized connection to Nazism in order to undermine, erode and supplant its moral authority in the West for decades. Also, the Islamic identity of the 9/11 hijackers was leveraged into multiple Western wars against Islamic countries and Muslims primarily by the Jewish apparatus (of Left and Right) and by Right-Statists. What are the common denominators? The Jewish Apparatus and Statists, working together in a soulless enterprise to persecute and murder the salt of the earth religious “peasantry” because it is in the way of what they disingenuously advertise as “modernity” and liberal Western progressivism, but what other’s correctly identify as stunted narcissism and group insanity.
:) Yeah, none of the mecca cola I hear some people on the Arab world drink. The real thing, or no deal.
Good question, Mooser. I have a crazy aunt who speaks similarly about non-Muslims. She asks me every time I visit Pakistan, if I have non-Muslim friends? There's this strange newspaper she reads. She used to read it out loud to me (in Urdu) and the writers always claimed to kill hundreds of American soldiers every day in Aghanistan and then claim the Media world wide over was covering it up, including the Pakistan media. It was laden with conspiracy theories and almost cultish exhortations. I suspect people of similar stripe all over the world read stuff written by crazies. I am also convinced that quite a few screws are lose in my Aunt's head. That's why she belives the crazy stuff.
Allah Akbar means "Allah is greater than your god?" LOL. That's a new one I have heard. Muslims are taught that the Abrahamic faiths worship the One and Same God. I know, I just know, you can't be that ignorant. I even learned this stuff in high school humanities class. When Muslims say "Allahu Akbar" they say it out of surprise or shock, and saying it kinda means that God is greater than all things and obstacles and He will help in overcoming it. Or compensate for the wrong done one way or the other. Or on seeing somethig beautiful, one can also say it, etc.
potty mouth
Yeah, Ed, wake up and smell Jacobwolfen's coffee–the goys are always waiting for the right moment to kill him and his people, today, tomorrow, in 30, 70, or a century from now. Why? Simply because he's a Jew, of course.
Phil uses a Hanan Ashwari web site to prove something has been discredited. Why not use Counterpunch or an unbiased source like Martillo?
And the Israeli kids graduate from high school thinking their families been physically on the land longer than the families of the Pal kids their own age.
And those T-shirts were made by arabs and slipped over the heads of the sleeping Israeli children.
So, the Allies intentionally avoided blowing up the rail lines to the concentration camps because they wanted more Jews killed? It couldn't have been a decision by prioritizing defeating Hitler's military and military industry factories and rail lines first? The mistake was due to looking at the biggest picture? Perhaps they should have diverted bombs from the roller bearing factories to the rails going into the camps? Nobody was dying but the Jews herded into the camps?
According to survey released today by an Arab professor at Haifa University, 40% of Arabs who are citizens of Israel do not believe that the Holocaust happened in WII. Among Arabs who are not citizens of Israel, so-called Palestineans, this figure is dramatically higher. i don't see what business it is of yours what they believe or don't believe.
That one is simple. Israelis can listen/read Hebrew. Arabs can listen/read Al-Jazeera. Israel, you see, is a free country, unlike anything else in the Middle East. Maybe this is one of the reasons that the Arab governments fear Israel so much…
I repeat. "There WERE no atrocities." Unless t-shirts are atrocities… like cartoons of Mohammed? And where did you get a name like "Hymie in Jerusalem"? Who gave you a name like that, anyways? Or is that supposed to tell us something more about your tolerance of others?
I merely point out 1) that one of the prime goals of Nazi philosophy is kill all the Jews on the planet, 2) that one of the prime goals of "Palestinean" patriotism is to kill all of the Jews on the Planet (as demonstrated by both PLO actions by Arafat over the decades and more recent actions by Islamo-Fascist groups like Hizbullah, Hamas, Al Qaeda and more), 3) that Nazism has disappeared (sorry to disappoint some of you) 4) Palestinean terrorism is very much with us still. If you think that this makes Palestineans Nazis, then that is your conclusion. I merely point out the (inconvenient) facts. Use your own logic to reach your own conclusions.
I merely pointed out that the Allies in WW II could have EASILY bombed either the death camps or the rail lines that supplied them and saved untold Jewish lives. That they did NOT do so substantiates my earlier claim that the Jews in WW II had no real political power. Much like Christians in Darfur and East Timor (do you have any idea where that is???) have no real political power and are massacred in genocidal actions by Islamic armies. I do hope that some factual information and reasoned logic doesn't hurt your brain too much…
Please list for us some of those past aggressions… if you can think of any that actually happened. Until the revolution of the Ayatollahs, Israel actually had very friendly relations with Iran. (Sorry, more inconvenient facts for you. And I was actually in Teheran in those days.) As for future aggressions, your "facts" about the future are as weak as your "facts" about the past.
Tthanks for providing the link to Sever Plocker. He is a well-known rabid Leftist and an economist by training who embarasses himself here by pretending to be a historian. In this article, he simply says that the evils of the Communist Soviet are the fault of Jews. Wherever he can blame Jews somewhere, he will. That he is an Israeli Jew himself is a matter of embarrasment, of course – for him and for everyone else. Unfortunate of you to quote him, though, he really weakens your case. :-)
Iran and Iraq killed a million of each other in the 1980's war. A quarter million Lebanse were killed in the civil war in the same decade; some were Christians, some Muslims, Palestineans did a lot of the killing. Saddam in Iraq and Assad in Syria killed tens of thousands, if not hundereds of thousands of their citizens. King Hussein of Jordan killed nearly 10,000 "Palestineans" in the very first Intifada in Black September of 1970, when Arafat tried to liberate Palestine, on the Jordanian-Occupied East Bank. And don't forget Qadaffi in Libya, and slaughter in Algeria, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and more. Millions. I saw one statistic of 11,000,000 Muslims slaughtered by other Muslims in the past 60 years, but I can easily count 3,000,000 in the past 25 years. And Israel, US, UK, etc contributed negligibly to these figures. Sorry, inconvenient facts again…
Ed says: "But if Muslims are killing Muslims out of some innate flaw in Islam, there is nothing anyone can do about it except containment." That is what the Security Wall in Israel is about: containment. Keep the Palestinean terrorists and Worshipers of Death on one side and let people on the other side live kind-of normal lives. But some of your friends call that "apartheid". Thanks for supporting the Israeli point of view, Ed. Much appreciated.
Ed says "Zionists seem to believe America is obliged to invade and occupy the Middle East". Wrongo! The US has it's own interests and acts on those interests. Just ask President Obama, who seems to be protecting the Iranian Nuke, for reasons best known to Barack Obama. Neither the State of Israel nor Zionists anywhere have any interest in the USA going to war for Israel. Your arguments are laced with non-factual statements. You are not convincing.
You seem to be very confused with the facts. Facts are excellent things for building your world on so lets stick with facts, OK? Israel does NOT "insist that the US demonize all Muslims". The US has it's own interests and will do what is best for the USA – just like Israel has it's own interests and does what is best for Israel. Overall, the interests of the 2 countries are co-incident – which is one of the reasons they have been so close. You don't really want to live like the Egyptians or the Saudis, now, do you? Thus, the US makes its own independent decisions. The US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were waged to further *US* interests. Israel may have benefitted – but Saudi Arabia and Kuwait benefitted much more!!! In fact, Petro-Dollars control Washington a whole lot more than any Zionist conspiracy any of you guys can cook up!
As for treatment of Palestineans, Arabs inside Israel have greater rights, privileges, protections and freedoms than they do anywhere else in the Middle East. Surprising, but true. You can't present any facts to deny this, because there aren't any – just as there is no "horrific treatmen of Palestineans". None. Period. When you have DAILY suicide-bombings in your schools, cafes, and buses, then maybe you will understand, too. But then, of course, any action you take will be for YOUR OWN interest. Or are you going to blame Israel when you go and defend yourself, too?
Another reason might be that they are almost all puppet governments, put in power by the USA, or Britain and France before it. Your kicking them around is just an added gesture of colonialist contempt.
Facts. Most of the so-called "Palestineans" in Israel moved here in the past century or so, mostly from what is today Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt. They came to Israel for the jobs. Jews in Israel were building a real economy, something the Arabs are endemically incapable of doing. Arabs moved into Israel for the same reasons that Arabs and "Palestineans" move today – to find work. Here we are a century later, and they actually believe that they have been here forever, even though there is no historical evidence for this. The Palestinean Waqf and the PLO have spent years trying to cover up archeological evidence of ancient Jewish presence in Israel, but it still doesn't hold water. Sorry about that, whoever you are.
The recent accusation were made by an Israeli anarchist and Palestinean sympathizer who did time in jail for refusing orders. um… does that make them implausible, to your tiny mind?
You're living in the past, dude. Get over it.
You sound like the racist here pal. Your attempt to link Zionists to their arch enemy, Germans of the Nazi party is futile at best. It only serves as a window into your true feelings for Jews, the victims of Nazis. Your purpose of attempting to link Jews and Nazis could only serve to cover up the ACTUAL Palestinian ties to Nazis and their complicity in the Holocaust. Your agenda is as transparent as your bigoted views about Zionists. It makes one wonder…. How do you feel about Islamists?
"discredited" by whom exactly? can't you be bothered to give details?
The point is that Israeli PM Netanyahu is perfectly reasonable when he expects the Palestinean Authority to educate children for peace, the same way Israeli children are taught. Palestinean schools teach that Jews never lived in Israel in ancient times and that the Holocaust never happened. This is official education policy in the Palestinean Authority. Peace efforts with people like that are not going to bear fruit.
Rowan, thank you for measuring my mind for me. You really make your points eloquently! What is relevant, though, is that the accusations against Israeli soldiers were unsubstantiated, that a subsequent investigation found NO evidence whatsoever to support them and that these were fraudulent claims made by a self-promoting, publicity-seeking crackpot. Or, to paraphrase a favorite expert I know, "um… does that make them plausible, to your tiny mind?" Cheers, Rowan! :-)
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Anyways, it's not the past. Palestinean terrorism is trying to kill people TODAY. Like the missiles launched ffrom Gaza TODAY thgat knocked down an Israeli house. Get over it?????
I assume you have a close relationship and share many personality traits.
Not the first time that has happened.
Fact: The USA/Britain/France/et al did NOT put Mubarak in power (for life!) in Egypt, nor Madman Qadaffi in Libya (Clinton actually bombed him), nor Assad Jr in Syria (after his father Assad Sr died after HE overthrew the previous govt), nor King Abdullah II in Jordan (King Abdullah bin Hussein bin Talal bin Hussein, all Kings of Jordan before him – oh and THEY stole the East Bank of Palestine for themselves, which is why King Hussein I was ASSASINATED by Palestineans), nor Ahmadinejad nor any of the Ayatollahs in Iran, nor the al Sauds in Arabia (who stole the land from the Hashemites and then named the country after their own family), nor any of the MANY OTHER Arab and Muslim despots who rule the Middle East. Fact: I am not kicking the Petro States around, Israel isn't kicking them around, the US pays through the nose for oil and is not kicking them around. Fact: RowanBerkeley has yet to provide a single fact in contribution to this discussion. I am not impressed.
The point was that Palestineans, like Arabs and Muslims elsewhere in the Middle East, are taught fallacies and false histories so as to perpetuate their struggle against the Infidel. Israel happens to be the nearest Infidel state (and you are not far down on the list of Infidels). Thus, when Israeli PM Netanyahu requires that the Palestinean Authority use the VAST sums of money donated to them by Uncle Sam, the EU, UNRWA and various well-meaning (and some good old fashioned antisemitic) church groups to educate young Palestinean children for PEACE instead of EVERLASTING JIHAD, then Netanyahu's request is appropriate , positive and constructive.
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Have you been practicing your goose step? Looking forward to the return of the good old days?
The PLO guarded the Jewish neighborhood Wadi Abu Jamil in Beirut during the civil war. Hizbullah supports restoring the Magen Abraham Synagogue. Hamas gave a Palestinian passport to Jeff Halper.
Comments on this entry are closed.