The Washington Post is reporting today that the Obama administration’s desire to challenge Israeli settlement expansion is being made more difficult by a “secret” deal the the Bush Administration struck with Israel 2004. Glenn Kessler and Howard Schneider write that the Obama Administration may be trying to end the agreement:
[Netanyahu spokesman Mark] Regev said the Israeli government is relying on “understandings” between former president George W. Bush and former prime minister Ariel Sharon that some of the larger settlements in the occupied West Bank would ultimately become part of Israel, codified in a letter that Bush gave to Sharon in 2004. In an interview with The Washington Post last year, Sharon aide Dov Weissglas said that in 2005, when Sharon was poised to remove settlers from Gaza, the Bush administration arrived at a secret agreement — not disclosed to the Palestinians — that Israel could add homes in settlements it expected to keep, as long as the construction was dictated by market demand, not subsidies.
Elliott Abrams, a former deputy national security adviser who negotiated the arrangement with Weissglas, confirmed the deal in an interview last week. “At the time of the Gaza withdrawal, there were lengthy discussions about how settlement activity might be constrained, and in fact it was constrained in the later part of the Sharon years and the Olmert years in accordance with the ideas that were discussed,” he said. “There was something of an understanding realized on these questions, but it was never a written agreement.”
Regev said Israeli and U.S. negotiators are discussing the degree to which the terms of the 2004 letter will apply under the new administration, but U.S. officials indicated that Obama wants to move beyond the 2004 letter and hold Israel to its commitments under the road map.
The 2004 exchange of letters between Bush and Sharon (and affirmed by Congress) was a profound change to US policy in Israel/Palestine, and it received scant attention from the media at the time. We’ve been wondering since the Obama administration entered office if they were going to stick to this agreement, and George Mitchell seemed to indicate the administration would on his first visit to Israel as special envoy. It’s good to see this may be getting reconsidered. Watch this great video from the AFSC on what this agreement would look like on the ground – it’s clear that it would make any peace agreement impossible.
So far the Obama administration has changed the tone to US/Israeli relations, but has not really broken from the Bush administration policies in Israel/Palestine. Ending this agreement would be a good start.
Even if it were a written agreement, that doesn't mean squat. If it's not a treaty approved by Congress, we are under no obligation to continue it. It was an informal agreement made at the pleasure of the president, and can be abandoned at the pleasure of the president. The Israelis have not only not given him a shred of help to us with our foreign policy needs, in return for our massive support over so many years, but are actively opposing our critical interests. So I rather suspect that President Obama isn't feeling very pleasurable about the Israelis. Our relationship with them consists of 'give, give, give', and we get nothing in return. I have heard ridiculous counter-examples like 'they didn't fire back at the Iraqis during the Gulf War when under (ineffectual) SCUD attack'. It is extremely clear that it was massively in their interest to refrain from striking back. They wanted Iraq smashed, and our success was fundamentally predicated on Arab support. From whose nations did we invade? The combat success of the war was never in doubt, but the political underpinnings would very much have been so if the Israelis had intervened. They did us no favors: they did themselves a favor. You did what we wanted you to do! We didn't shoot ourselves in the foot! You owe us! Poppycock.
RE: "Obama may be looking to abandon 'secret' deal between the US and Israel on settlements" *TAKE ACTION TO END THE OCCUPATION Send a personalized letter (E-mail) to the Members of Congress on the Appropriations Subcommittee. Let these Members of Congress know that you oppose the President's FY2010 budget request for $2.775 billion in military aid to Israel. *TO SEND YOUR LETTER (E-mail) – http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/641/t/2439/c...
So what? We don't even believe in the agreement that God supposedly had with the Jews about Israel. Bush is just a mortal.
Oh joy! Obama might—*might*—no longer abide by a secret deal whereby the United States essentially made an agreement with Israel that Israel did not really have to live up the the Road Map which the U.S. trumpeted as proving it was a fair broker and Israel was serious about peace. Yup, with Obama we are on the verge of milk and honey running in the streets over there…. Riiiight on the edge….
The Washington Post article referencing an "unwritten agreement" and confirmed by Israel and Elliott Abrams is propaganda to support a basis for refusing to stop the growth in settlements and to make it look like Obama is breaking an agreement. Please note that Bush's 2004 letter did NOT provide for growth in settlements, natural or otherwise. The article conflates Bush's letter with this so-called unwritten agreement. More sleight of hand propaganda, to be sure. The authors of the Washington Post article are AIPAC assets. Let's remember that Glenn Kessler was right in the middle of the AIPAC spy case to leak the US government's Iran documents to the press-he was present at the meeting between Rosen, Weissman, Franklin and the Israeli agent when the information was passed. That makes him one of AIPAC's go to guys.
This story is based on a characteristic Israeli piece of bluff. There was no "secret agreement". That is not the way things work. What happens is, the Israeli media publicise a spurious claim and dare the USA to deny it. This happened with the "Syrian reactor" raid, too.
oh my god you're criticizing the israelis! you're a… nazi!
Saleema, your comments bely your ignorance, What right did Pakistan have to separate from India? If you think Jews are not entitled to a state on secular reasons then you are not entitled to Pakistan. But on religious grounds you are wrong too, Allah is a Zionist. Pakistan is occupying Indian land. And your comments about Zionist atrocities are hypocritical, what did Pakistanis' do to Bangladehsis in the 1972 war? Wikipedia lists it as one of the genocides of the last century. Finally you don't know your own religion. The Quran (your holy book) states that Allah will return Jews to Israel, Here is a Muslim Sheikh, read his website, …he says the Arabs are practicing nationalism by rejecting Israel that is why they keep losing the wars. Koran (17:104, The Night Journey). "And thereafter We said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd."
Allah is a Zionist, Saleema. Here is Sheikh Palazi's website, read it and learn, you have been taught dogma and hate http://amislam.com/yeagley.htm Koran (17:104, The Night Journey). http://amislam.com/yeagley.htm "And thereafter We said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd." http://amislam.com/yeagley.htm Obey the Koran and Leave the Jews Alone The Muslim Zionist Does the Koran support Jewish control of the Holy Land? Palazzi accepts Jewish sovereignty over the Holy Land (he says the Koran supports it as the will of God and, theologically, a necessary prerequisite for the Final Judgment). He quotes the Koran to support Judaism's special connection to the Temple Mount. "The most authoritative Islamic sources affirm the Temples," he says,
Shrub, the end-timer drunk, just signed off on Israel gets what it wants, and Chaney rubber-stamped it, the most evil of mentors, as bad as Dr Strangelove… but Obama doesn't have to rubber stamp Shrub–it's all a about his guesses on who will help him most getting a second term. Any takers on this issue?
Yeah but Daly, do you really put it past Bush to have indeed made and honored the "agreement" that's now being reported? And, indeed, doesn't it seem as if *something* like that agreement or understanding or whatever *was* in effect in that, sure enough, the settlement building and expansion and etc. did go on and we certainly didn't hear Bush or his administration objecting, right? Not that I put it past Netanyahu or Abrams to now be claiming an agreement that didn't exist, but just insofar as the *evidence* goes there sure seems some that supports the notion. And what I laugh at in the Wash. Post article is how utterly they ignore the implications of this "agreement" or whatever. After all essentially they say they uncovered a secret deal by the U.S. utterly subverting its very own celebrated "Road Map" not to mention the Annapolis and Wye accords very possibly. So wouldn't you think that the discovery of such blatant trickery and double-dealing be somewhat big big news? The U.S. essentially lying to the world with the Road Map and secretly agreeing to its serial violation? And what does that say about the U.S.'s claim to be a "fair broker" between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Wouldn't you think it would be interesting to ask the "man on the arab street' what he thinks of trusting the U.S. to be fair in the future? But no no, the Wash. Post tells us, the only question is … whether Obama will stick to this utterly deceitful secret understanding. Amazing. Kinda like a story with the headline "Aside From That Mrs. Lincoln Very Much Enjoyed The Play."
couldn't it be simply a rumor to force people into fighting windmills. A secret deal? Is this legally valid under US law? I agree with Colin Murray. I didn't read the WaPo article admittedly.
So what? Zion is meant to be a sanctuary for battered jewry. Who cares what it says in some old book? Are Jews safer in Israel than in Montana? Apparently not.
Well it quite looks like the Washington Post is elevating the status of this "agreement," if it existed outside of the Israelis conspiring with Abrams. Thus we ask, would you put it past Bush? No, of course not. I guess we can call this the enactment of international law by leaking a story to the press. No doubt they are drafting the ratifying resolutions for Congress to pass, in the dead of night, as we speak. So much is wrong with the story. No wonder they buried it. Ya gotta love Israel though. They don't ever stop, ever.
Wait a guldern second here! Wasn't all this talk of "secret deals" supposed to be just so much "conspiracy theory". Get your story straight, ye yarmulked bozos!
"and it received scant media from the media at the time" Surprised? MSM is "Israeli occupied territory" along with many so called progressive blogs
"Ya gotta love Israel though. They don't ever stop, ever." No, you got that exactly right. Really admirable in a non-partisan kind of way. Like I said before in another thread, at some point you have to say that if the Palestinians/arabs don't get their act together it's hard to feel sorry for them.
RE: "Who cares what it says in some old book? " SEE THE ARTICLE: “Moses was stoned when he set Ten Commandments, researcher claims” – the “Guardian” (U.K.), 03/05/08 (EXCERPT) "An Israeli researcher is claiming in a study published this week the prophet may have been stoned when he set the Ten Commandments in stone. According to Benny Shanon, a professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, psychedelic drugs formed an integral part of the religious rites of Israelites in biblical times. Writing in the Time and Mind journal of philosophy, he says concoctions based on the bark of the acacia tree, frequently mentioned in the Old Testament, contain the same molecules as those found in plants from which the powerful Amazonian hallucinogenic brew ayahuasca is prepared…. …..Moses was probably also on mind-altering drugs when he saw the "burning bush", suggested Shanon…." ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/05/relig...
I don't know if it's been reported elsewhere on this blog, but Haaretz states that a law banning mourning of Israel's Independence Day, i.e., banning the Nakba observances, is being prepared for introduction in the Knesset. The law would have penalties of 3 yr. imprisonment for anyone observing the Nakba. http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1087792.html
A contract to commit a criminal act is not enforceable (not legally, anyway).
RE: "Obama may be looking to abandon 'secret' deal between the US and Israel on settlements" FROM LAURA ROZEN'S BLOG "WAR AND PIECE": State Department press statement, May 24, 2009 – Question Taken at the May 21 Daily Press Briefing Question: What is the U.S. response to Prime Minister Netanyahu’s comments that all of Jerusalem will remain under Israeli sovereignty and “will never again be partitioned and divided”? Answer: Jerusalem is a final status issue. Israel and the Palestinians have agreed to resolve its status during negotiations. We will support their efforts to reach agreements on all final status issues. An Israeli diplomat adds: "I'm shocked… Barak is going to Washington to 'convince the administration' that in exchange for removing illegal settlements, the US will acquiesce on Israel's 'demand' to allow for 'natural growth.' You would think that despite being arrogantly dumb on US affairs, they would at least pretend to understand the Obama zeitgeist and at a minimum play the game. But no, they are dumber than meets the eye." SOURCE – http://warandpiece.com/
Yeah… and when Israel restricts books, paper and pens, outside communication to the Palestinians … it kinda explains why Israel wants to make you think they can't get their act together.
This is such an important point. Both Israel and the US are so puffed up with hubris, they don't even bother with the legalities anymore. Both the 2004 letter and the so-called "unwritten agreement" are invalid. This kind of behavior really hurts the US with the world.
Haim, you are getting your Islamic education from the Jimmy Swaggart of Muslim shiekhs. Not even, actually he is a Zionist agent straight up. Palazi doesn't even have Muslim followers….haha! The Zionists sponsor him. Like the Walid Shoebats and the rest, their paychecks are signed by Zionists. I would hate for you to go any further embarrassing yourself by publicizing your profound ignorance on this matter. You don't have to thank me, this is a friendly FYI.
@ Haim, LOL. Thanks for the great laugh. You must read my comments enough to know where my family hails from. So I"m sure you know my views on India and Pakistan. But, Pakistan is not occupying. It broke away, and many people died needlessly on both sides. India does not lay claim to Pakistan and you know that very well. And you also know that Kashmir is the only territorial dispute. Poor Kashmiris and poor Palestinians. They are smashed between powers who can't see past their virtues and other's sins. Because Pakistan committed war crimes in Bangladesh that somehow justifies Israeli crimes? Nice logic. Why do Zionists have to always compare themselves with others atrocities? Can't you guys find something good to compare to, just for once? You have interpreted my religion wrong. Let me elaborate on what the Quran really says. (You know how the Kappos abandoned their brothers and sisters and joined the Nazis? Well, I wouldn't be surprised if there are Muslims who have done the same. That does not make your point right. We got our own Kappos.)
@ Haim cont. The story of the Bani Israel is a beautiful one in the Quran. Allah tells us about how He blessed them again and again, forgave them again and again and how he loved them and showed them many favors and "chose" them among the nations. Then, Allah tells us that they fell out of favor by trangressing bounds. One of the way Allah punished the Bani Israel was to let them wander the desert for 40 years. When, Allah decided it was time for them to go home, he asked them to enter into the city with heads bowed and and prostrating, to show thankfulness. Some refused to do that. Allah became very angry with them again. Allah also sent Jesus to bring them back to the religion of Abraham. They still did no listen. Allah then sent Muhammad. Allah says in the Quran that the earth will belong to those that are righteous. Anyone who trangresses bounds and commits injustice, "for Allah loves not the unjust," then He will punish them through other people and make them weak, and bring other powers to rise who will govern better than the transgressors.
@ Haim, Cont Allah does not say that if Muslims committ injustice then He won't punish them. Any people who committ injustice and cause grief to others will be punished. Just because punishment hasn't been visited upon those who are trangsressing all bounds right now, doens't mean that it will never come. Before talking stupidly about Pakistan and what I think of it's politics, past and present, read my views on my blog. Allah also warns Muslims not to sell Allah's verses for a small sum of fee and lose His Grace. Again, He takes us back into history and shows us how not to behave. So there are among the Jews, Christians and Muslims, who sell their souls for money in this world. The Jews did it. The Christians did it. THe Muslims did it. In fact, Muhammad said that Muslims would split into more factions than the Jews and Christians, but there will always be those that will stay on the true path. So Haim, I suggest that you stay on the true path and buy your soul back and start loving people instead of worshipping nations. That's a form of Idolarty, you know. Have a wonderful day.
Is it a toss-up as to whether these three religions have caused more harm than good in history? Please don't split my question by saying some humans use their religion in ways not originally intended–the practical point is there will always be religious zealots and political users of religion. So, with that in mind, what is your answer?
Are you asking me? I think you answered your own question, no? There will always be those that will use religion for political means and religious zealots. The rest of us should try to stay as human as possible. I think the 10 comandments are pretty good and easy to follow. Don't murder, be kind to neighbors and dont' steal and I think you are pretty much on the safe side of God no matter what religion you belong too.
Saleema, you twisted my words to mean something i didn't imply, I didn't say i don't love people, or that i'm full of hate, nor did i say Zionists were sinless , and i didn't say what Zionists did, should be ignored because of what Pakistan did to Bengalis. My point was why are Pakistani' like yourself, coming here so Pro Palestinian, and condemning us, without condeming what your own have done? This is hypocricy. You skipped my points and obfuscated. Are you saying Jews are not entitled to a state because some us transgressed, (so did Muslims and Xtians too) against the laws? The Sheikh is not a kappo, because he is not anti Muslim, you didn't even read what he had to say did you? you're a hate filled bigot, pretending to be holier than thou,
Do you think Zionists are not entitled to a state because of Palestina suffering? Then you have to relinquish the right to Pakistan too.. Why did you gloss over that? Answer it. Are you saying that you don't believe that Jews will return to Israel before the end? I have discussed this with Islamic sheiksh, and the traditional islamic belief is that Jews will return . I've been told that your prophet said when you practice nationalism as opposed to islam, you will fall. The early Muslism were not opposed to Israel, Sharif Hussein supported it. Nationilsm is why you reject Israel and why you fail, as your prophet said to you.
It's really simple. Read my blog.
Well they sound good and all however the facts remain there has never been any real g-d the fact that people with this blind faith for the very things that will destroy all eventually is pathetic that no one takes creedance in the facts . Look at the missing link found in Frankfurt, how does the bible explain that one? It is all lies and hocus pocus. Jesus was a politician
what part of the hocus pocus do you not understand…it is every religon. Religon is no more than a control used to tame the peoples in places we are not and even the future peoples going to find truth of these baseless fundamentalists with nothing better to do. Look at all the evangelicals in the usa being told send your last few dollars and the lord with give you ten fold back. Yeah right and when i see a cow flying over the moon I will then believe a little..but untill the so called judgement day when it will take the almighty himself to show his power and explain how genocide and slaughter was his game play for the zionist to commit os a beautiful thing is disturbing all together. Did everyone get a stupid pill that BB was passing out. Besides being extraterestial aliens the zionist and all these religons are bound for failure…till the next cheney and bush send a drone plane into some buildings or destroy an old munition settling in the coastal waters, which will have everyone again praying to their g-ds. WELL GET OVER IT THERE WAS NEVER ANY GOD
THIS MAKES ME WONDER WHAT YOU ALL ARE SMOKING, SNORTING OR SHOOTING. COMPARING ATROSCITIES TO JUSTIFY….GODS WILL AND WHAT OBAMA IS , ALL FIT INTO THE GAME OF THE ZIONIST HE IS A TRADER TO AMERICANS AND THEY DO NOT EVEN SEE IT. say it together now…..We were fooled and there is no god. But do not fall apart now demand all that prime real estate be vacant. a shifting in tetonic plates driving one higher does not mean god wanted moe to ascend up to the heavens …he probably was hurled into the heavens by natural gas explotion, as for all the other stuff it is blind faith in nothingness