Seham gave us her pre-speech thoughts and now she weighs in after Obama's speech in Cairo:
If only he would have mentioned that Al-Azhar University was a beacon of Islamic and Arabic thought before it was plunged into backwardness by U.S. supported dictators in Egypt. If only people knew that under Mubarak, Al-Azhar represents little more than a place where regular book burnings occur and where extremists can be taught how to sow sectarian discord against their Shia brothers and sisters…
I don't know where to begin, there are so many things I took issue with, but I guess I'll start with the 9/11 lecture. In the last six years, Arabs have witnessed the slaughter of over one million dead Iraqis and thousands of dead Lebanese and Palestinian civilians. Americans sent to Iraq wearing military uniforms have raped and killed children and tortured many, many others. Yet, I'm sure Americans don't want to be judged by rapists like Steven Green or murderers like George Bush. Well Arabs don't want to be reminded about the hijackers at every opportunity, either. Especially considering that those hijackers were not the democratically elected representatives of the Arab people.
Obama also talked about bus bombings, the last of which was carried out in 2004 and about his upcoming visit to a concentration camp in Germany. But he did not mention the more recent slaughter of thousands of people in Lebanon and Palestine by Israel. He couldn't bring himself to condemn the war when it was happening, he didn't want to step on toes, it was a bullshit claim but I cut him some leeway anyway. But five months later he has yet to utter a condemnation of the indiscriminate slaughter of Palestinian civilians and he has no plans to visit Gaza. And I wonder why he mentioned the holocaust and holocaust denial to his Arab audience, Arabs are not responsible for the holocaust and while I denounce the stupidity of those that deny history, I am baffled as to why the holocaust is being viewed within the frame of Muslim denial instead of Christian criminality. And, as far as Palestinians go, we are very aware of the holocaust and we know who perpetrated those crimes because we have been paying the price ever since.
He insulted my intelligence when he talked about Muslims and the founding of this country. There was no mention of how those first Muslims ended up in the US, but they got here on slave ships and they were black Africans and Arabs. And yes, they fought in America's wars, some were even injected with syphilis in the process. Maybe these half-truths were easy for his audience today to accept because they seem to giddy to be recognized and spoken to, even if it is done so condescendingly. I can't blame them because they are just so delighted that they aren't being portrayed as sandal wearing terrorists for once. But I wasn't impressed with the revisionist history of how black Muslims first got to the U.S.
On Palestine and Israel his statement on the settlements were disturbing. He said that Israel must halt settlement growth but he doesn't say anything about the ones that are already there which are just as illegal as the ones that are currently being built and expanded. Does he think that the "old" settlements are legitimate negotiating factors? I was confused when he said that Hamas should recognize Israel, which Israel is it that Hamas should recognize? 1948 borders or 1967? Or Israel within the borders of 2000, 2007, 2008, 2009? Considering that the illegal settlements are constantly expanding, I can see how confusing it must be for Hamas to figure out which Israel to recognize.
His lecturing to Arabs about how they need to take "responsibility" were laughable in light of the fact that this week he reiterated his full support for Israel at the UN and has stated repeatedly that he will not halt welfare to Israel. Meanwhile, Richard Goldstone is leading the UN investigation team in Gaza and he says he is amazed by the devastation which he has seen. He also says that Israel is doing nothing to assist his investigation–an investigation for a war crimes that were funded by the U.S.
Angry Arab says it best:
“Shoukran,” Mr. Obama replied, which in Arabic means “thank you.” Look how nice, how sensitive, and how humane. Why did not other presidents think of that. If only that word was used before. I mean, if you print the word "shoukran" (it should be "shukran" but hey, it is the New York Times), on bombs and missiles that are being dropped on Arabs and Muslims, I think that they will no more mind US wars. Really. Just by using the word, Obama guaranteed a switch in Arab/Muslim public perceptions of the US. In fact, I once entered a French restaurant in Paris: and I started to hit customers and trashing the place. When some customers gathered to attack me, I yelled: "Merci." With that, the entire crowd started to cheer and they went to the kitchen to bake me a croissant. You should try that trick sometimes. "Thank you." -As`ad.
Oh but thanks for telling us that we have pretty calligraphy, Obama.
Saleema: “I am baffled as to why the holocaust is being viewed within the frame of Muslim denial instead of Christian criminality.” Here you are repeating another trope constructed and promoted by Political Judaism. But really, what all of this demonstrates is that neither Political Judaism nor Political Islam can be trusted to assimilate into Western (Christian) civilization-based systems of liberty and freedom, because both are willing to negatively stereotype Christianity at every opportunity for their own authoritarian political ends and agenda, based on the behavior of pseudo-Christian, Judas, authoritarian Statists of Right and Left, both of whom regularly collaborate with Political Judaism. [cont'd]
The colonialists collaborated with Political Judaism. Stalin collaborated with Political Judaism for decades, the Democrats collaborated with Political Judaism for decades, Bush collaborated with Political Judaism. The commonality is authoritarian Statists and Plutocrats and authoritarian Political Judaism. How America learns to cope with Political Judaism is how it will ultimately cope with Political Islam. And deportation to their respective states will be the likely outcome. The only alternative looks increasingly like either Balkanization, or Soviet-like, authoritarian Leftism to hold it all together — but then we’re back to square one, and the Christian-based ethos of liberty and freedom will have to start carving its survival out of the savage political wilderness yet again.
The Holocaust was perpetrated by Western European Christians, who not only slaughtered Jews but millions of Orthodox Christians, too.
A more apt headline would be "Hezbollah credibility hurt by opportunist condemnation of brilliant speech",
No, it was perpetrated by right-wing Statist authoritarians, not unlike the left-wing Statist authoritarians who slaughtered millions of Christians in the Soviet Union in collaboration with Political Judaism prior to the Holocaust. You Lefties have zero moral authority. Quit trying to sweep history under the rug on behalf of another murderous power-grab. http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/20...
Saleema, Seham, same thing to you, right Eric?
No Tommy, we musn't point out the religion of those responsible for the holocaust. It makes us inferior, why can't we just become enlightened and free Western Christians? Sigh.
No one is asking Political Islam or Political Judaism to convert to or "become" anything. But they have their own respective spheres in the Mideast. They don't need to bring their authoritarian ideologies into the West. But they can't seem to help themselves. That's where deportation and containment come into play. If it were up to me, I would deport Statist authoritarians and Plutorats collaborating to illegally overthrow American sovereignty to the Mideast, too. They'd probably feel more at home, and attain the discipline they crave from one or the other there. Clearly, they aren't suited to comprehend, handle, caretake, or perpetuate the freedom and liberty God granted to the West via Christianity. I think it’s their atheism, narcissism, and arrested development. They apparently require remedial moral schooling. The religious Jews and Muslims can give them what they need.
"Clearly, they aren't suited to comprehend, handle, caretake, or perpetuate the freedom and liberty God granted to the West via Christianity." Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Here’s an idea. Political Judaism and Islam in the Mideast agree to take our narcissistic spoiled brats, and we’ll take their dissident freedom lovers willing to respect the moral authority of Christianity as the basis and necessary ingredient of ongoing Western freedom and liberty. It’s a win-win. The Mideast gets some new blood, and the West gets a population that understands and appreciates the freedoms of Western civilization and why they are necessarily based upon a Christian moral foundation.
Oh I see what the problem is, I had you confused with a different commentator who actually had intelligent and interesting things to say so that's the only reason why I ever bothered to respond to you. Carry on.
Hey I took that as a compliment! ;) He must think I'm very intelligent. But, hey, I agree with you all the way Seham.
Ed, I knew it. I knew that the amount of love you have for the Muslims could be judged by the amount of love you have for the Jews. Telling.
From Left to Right, Judaism to Islam to Christianity, everyone reaps what they sow. Take it up with God. At least under my framework, Political Judaism isn't allowed to extract American taxpayer money and the US military from Americans and use it to persecute Palestinians, many of them Christian, and also invade Islamic countries generating blowback against Christians. Maybe as an Islamic Leftist, you thought the Muslims were the only ones that counted, and were happy to see Christians slaughtered just as Judaic Leftistst were happy to see them slaughtered in the Soviet Union. Sorry, but It must be assumed that anyone willing to collaborate with Christian-murdering Leftists doesn't have much love for Christians. Telling.
God granted to the West? Are you fucking joking? Why are you here, Ed? You blast Israel for what it does to the Arabs and yet you push the Manifest Destiny line when it's Christians versus Savage Red Indians? Fuck you.
When Obama spoke of Palestinian suffering as if it were due to a natural disaster, he lost his credibility. If the money changes in the US, so does the politics. As long as Jewish money funds the Western body politic such as it is, then the politics will be business as usual.
I am hopeful. If Obama goes too far he will loose the leverage he has and will become like Jimmy Carter. A well meaning man who does not know how to use the power at his command. He needs to have "the people" with him. If I had been elected they would have impeached and imprisoned me by now. He cannot go too far too fast. I am actually surprised how far he has gone. When he spoke of Palestinian suffering we knew what he meant. The probable path to peace in the ME is to get American Jewry on board. That is where Shlomo Ben-Ami said the answer lies and I sense he is probably right.
Yeah seriously Ed, it was an interesting argument until you used the line "….the freedom and liberty God granted to the West via Christianity." I'm a Christian myself but that statement reveals such hubris and such a one sided look at history that you pretty much lost credibility with me on that one. If we are to have ecumenical understanding (which includes humanist, atheist thought) we can't go around glorifying our own side and glossing over the sins of history.
Ed: 2009 version of the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion Richard: 2009 version of The Protocols of the Elders of Mecca You both are seriously messed up, although Richard serves up his anti-Arabism with sweet sprinkles on top.
RE: "Considering that the illegal settlements are constantly expanding…" SEE: “House Hunting in the West Bank” by GERSHOM GORENBERG, 06/04/09 (EXCERPT) It’s Benjamin Netanyahu’s fault. Because of his insistence on allowing for “natural growth” of West Bank settlements, I decided to go real-estate shopping. I called Amana, the settlement-building organization, and said I was interested in homes in Binyamin, the name used by settlers and Israeli officialdom for the piece of the West Bank directly north of Jerusalem…. …At Eli, just up the road from Shilo, she offered homes in the center of the settlement and in outlying “neighborhoods.” In Hayovel, for instance, she had a house for $115,000, with a completed first floor and the outer shell for the second floor. She didn’t mention that the “neighborhood” of Hayovel is an illegal outpost, built partly on private Palestinian land. She offered me a similar house at a settlement called Ma’aleh Mikhmash. I thanked her and said I’d talk to my wife… …Netanyahu and his partners don’t want any of this to stop. They want settlements to keep growing, in order to block an Israeli withdrawal and a two-state solution. Obama wants a freeze as the first step toward a solution. The natural-growth argument is worse than a distraction; it’s a scam. Let the buyer beware. ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://prospect.org/cs/articles?article=house_hun...
Today, Hillary flat out said there was no prior agreement for a "natural growth" exception. The EU is considering trade sanctions on Israel for the products coming from the settlements which they believe are being illegally designated as coming from Israel proper.
Won't Obama have to go to Israel at some point? Maybe he will go to Gaza then, after the UN Report comes out, and then we might hear something from him.
Ed Dear, What on earth are you talking about? Who's collaborating with who to kill Christians? Who are the Christian-murdering Leftists? Are you accusing me of being one? I can't even lift a finger to swat at a fly.
@ ED God granted to the West? Via what? Prophethood and the divinity of Jesus? All biblical prophets were "Eastern" and Jesus was a Jew.
Goodness Gracious Me had the perfect comment: http://bit.ly/19BuvR .
The speech was wonderful. For those that imagine that Israel will somehow come to not exist, during their lifetimes (even if you are 20), live in a vain and cruel fantasy world. The statement by Obama that the US is permanently and intimately connected to and committed to Israel's existence is critical. While the US will rationally criticize elements of Israeli policy that are prejudicial in design and outcome, it will NOT adopt the ideological view that "Zionism is racism", or fundamentally endanger Israel. Individuals or groups that seek to remove Israel from the map from whatever ideological perspective, will be an opponent of the US in that regard. To succeed at that goal, they will be fighting Israel, the United State, the EU, moderate (and oppressive) Islamic states. The set of people that engage in that "we will wipe Israel from the map", include those that perceive that they have no other option, those that adopt a theocratic commitment to the one-way heart valve of the Islamic Waqf (expands only), those that are rebels for rebellion sake. Obama will eliminate those that are motivated by "they have no other option" as he will skillfully facilitate other options. There is nothing that he can do about the theocratic expansionist urge (at least by persuasion, except to defer their expansionist goals), nor can he eliminate those that psychologically require themselves to be rebels/outlaws. Obama is the worst news for the far left, for the anti-Zionist right, and for the Zionist right as well. By his skills of emphasizing needs over demands, negotiation over war, he isolates those that bigoted, dogmatic, self-hating humans, from relevance.
Richard, wondering what you think of Hamas' response to the speech? http://hoseyblog.blog.com/5161228/
And of course, there's the tired trope about Palestinians needing to give up violence, while we send billions in weapons to Israel. What's interesting is that the same people who condemn Palestinian violence so strongly are usually against any sort of nonviolent response that the Palestinians come up with, whether it's the civil society BDS call, the Free Gaza activities, the nonviolent demonstrations, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.
Negotiation over war–interested in hearing your reply to the Hamas letter to Obama?
I"ll bet you anytime Witty – Israel will cease to be a jewish state in the next 20 years. That probably means that Israeli will be completely gone – but it doesn't need to be so. But ZIonist arrogance and stupidity will most likely end up destroying Israel completely…