By Joseph Dana
Yesterday morning, Nefesh B’Nefesh had the first in a series of summer 2009 celebrations greeting its charter flights packed with new immigrants from North America. Nefesh B'Nefesh is a non-profit organization that encourages and facilitates Jewish immigration to Israel from North America and the United Kingdom. They expect to bring over 3,000 immigrants to Israel over the course of the summer, in addition to the 20,000 they have brought since 2002. Attending the ceremony were the Israeli Minister of Transportation, Israeli Minister of Immigrant Absorption, the Chairman of the Jewish Agency, the CEO of EL Al Israel Airlines and the two American Jewish founders of Nefesh B’Nefesh.
Nefesh B’Nefesh, along with the Jewish Agency and the Israeli
government, is intentionally encouraging new immigrants to move to
illegal settlements. Of the 232 immigrants who arrived in Israel yesterday, seven families were going to settle in Ma’aleh Adumim, along with a handful of people moving to Efrat inside the Gush Etzion settlement block. Both of these areas are considered to be illegal Israeli settlements according to international law. President Obama has recently called on Israel to cease all settlement growth and activity. The Israeli government has, in turn, argued that it must be able to continue what it calls "natural growth," or building within existing settlements for the children of residents. But even using their own logic, "natural growth" certainly can’t include new immigrants from the United States, Canada and the United Kingdom.
Nefesh B’Nefesh will succeed in bringing family after family to the settlements in effect having an American based nonprofit organization directly contributing to Israeli settlement growth (click here to see upcoming Nefesh B'Nefesh events in the US). Furthermore, important staff members of the Nefesh B’Nefesh organization are settlers by their own admission.
In addition to Israel’s stalling of evacuating outposts it has itself slated for dismantlement, the Obama administration faces another crucial obstacle in its efforts to implement a freeze on Israeli settlement growth: American citizens moving there.
How can we allow these types of organizations, which actively undermine the peace process, to fundraise as they wish while we hammer and scrutinize organizations from the Palestinian side?
Bomb the settlements!
AM, it is hard to take seriously to letters of the alphabet, but exactly how do you propose America destroy Israeli groups?
Please call it by its proper name: lebensraum
Related: Video of WB settlers attacking a crew from Peace Now, destroying a camera… Israeli TV.
Let me see if I have this right. MondoLies poses piles of non-stop untruths and propaganda slandering Jews, some American Jews then actually leave the USA and move to Israel and then MondoLies has a problem with that, too. Where should they move to? Efrat is part of a Jewish area that was heavily Jewish until it was ETHNICALLY CLEANSED BY ARABS, both Jordanians and Palestineans (same thing, really). Now that Jews move back, you have a problem with this? Oh, these are not "illegal settlements". They are Jewish towns in disputed territories – just like their Arab neigbors live in Arab towns in disputed territories. It has NEVER IN HISTORY been classified as "Palestine" nor as any modern country. Never. And if Israelis (or Arabs, for that matter) move there without being forced by the govt, then this is perfectly legal under international law, MondoLies notwithstanding.
The Nuremburg Laws were perfectly "legal"
These families are being used as shields to protect Israeli expansionist militants. Whenever Americans finally begin demonstrating like Iranians, they need to target unlawful American institutions that facilitate territorial appropriation of Palestinian territory.
Wrong. Go back to the drawing board. American Jews such as those implied in Phil's article are directly violating the current USA policy. And their supporting agency are being funded by US tax dollars via NGO exemption. The land mentioned was named Palestine during a good part of old history. The settlements are clearly illegal under the laws and extension of law laid down when they hung the Nazis at Nuremberg. Get a grip, Jake, you zionazi dufus.
Was that a variation of What a Wonderful World playing in the background?
Wouldn't you move if you were offered land, home and work for next to nothing. These families are likely part of a failed system in the US that the agency is taking advantage of, just like they did in 1947 as they encouraged jews to immigrate to Israel and run away from Europe; hard to fault these people who believe they are getting a new start. The problem gets bigger and bigger. So let's ask ourselves, before 1967, and before Isarel took over Gaza and the West Bank in its war with the Arabs, this land was under Egyptian and Jordanian control, why did these governments not create Palestine then, why did they not encourage the Palestinians who were refugees in their countries to settle this land until they can figure out how recover the land lost in 1948. The Arabs missed that opportunity then and now they are crying foul. Israel is simply taking advantage of its stupid neigbours who even today still fight among themselves about how to fix this problem. Meanwhile, the Palestinians rot in the refugee camps and Amercian and British losers move to Israel to try and get a new start at someone else's expense. History is a strange whore who will comfort anyone who takes the opprtunity.
Jordan's motivation was a mix of Arab solidarity with the displaced former arab residents, and hope for land grab on their own part. The acceptance of Israel is new.
non profit at who's expense?
I remember there was a medical facility at Efrat where Palestinian villagers received free medical care. Then a Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up in the facility.
i remember there was an area of land that once belonged to the palestinians, then some european jews migrated and occupied it and subjected the aborigenes to a tyrannical rule.
It would be in Israel's best interests to help its neighbors instead of taking advantage of them. Someday Israel's neighbors will be in position to take advantage of Israel, and they will have no memory of Israel's good neighborly behavior. What they will remember are the US gifted aircraft firing missiles into apartment blocks.
"'It has NEVER IN HISTORY been classified as "Palestine"" Really?…rotflmao You are really a dumb little thing Jakie..how old are you? When the UN created Israel in 1948 all the documents referred to giving the Jews "part of Palestine" Before that the British referred to their mandate as "over Palestine". Before that…way way before it all ,the maps in the Library Of Congress show a country called Palestine. All the documents at the British National archives list a country called Palestine…. they show no country called Israel until 1949. Israel is made up country carved out of Palestine ,given to the jews because of the holocuast..and because in large part Britian didn't want all the displaced jews immigrating into the UK. There was no country called Israel in modern times called israel, it didn't exist until 1949.
Natural growth is not the point. Even if nobody from Nefesh bit Settler went there would still be one in 10 Zionist Israelis living in the West Bank. NFN are helping to make the binational state a reality. Thanks guys.
I'm posting a link to diary by Suin over @ Firedoglake — IMO it's a heart-wretching post that seems to have been buried in all the Iranian hysteria and paranoia that's been recently going around the web. Gaza – Some Things Never Change By: Siun Sunday July 5, 2009 6:30 pm http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/gaza-some-thing... Plus, IMO J-Street is looking pretty shady to me at the moment, on the one hand this lobby group that's supposed to be representing moderate, pro-peace Jews are cheering on Obama because he is actually talking about the settlements and Palestinians, but when it comes to actually ways of supporting Obama to stop Israel spitting in our faces — they are silent. Where's their support for Obama to bring down fair sanctions on Israel for the crimes they have committed? Where are the loan conditions, or restrictions that can be made on these so-called charities that fund these militant settlers? They are silent!
There has never in all of history been a country called Palestine. There has never in all of history been a nationality of "Palestinean" until Yasser Arafat invented it in 1964. Palestine existed as a REGION, like Europe or the South of France. There is no NATIONALITY or COUNTRY called Europe or the South of France. All of Jordan and part of Syria were part of the region known as Palestine. 3/4 of Palestine is now occupied by Jordan. You need to study up a bit more…
Violating policy is against the law? Are you the new Hitler? Screw you and your policy.
You have invented some "crimes" with which to accuse Jews. Fascinating. How about the old 'they use the blood of Christian child for baking" accusation? Then YOU call ME a zionazi? Your entire posting is based on MondoLies… Typical…
You mean a region known as Palestine. It was never a sovereign entity so it was never a state.
You remember something that didn't occur?
Unrelated to this issue. Many of the Jewish towns and villages in the Disputed Territories are merely re-establishments of Jewish towns that were ethnically cleansed by murderous Palestinean Arabs just a generation or two ago. The real land thieves are Arabs. They are the ones setting up illegal settlements, on stolen land.
Why would you restrict peaceful organizations? You restrict the palestinian organizations that promote murder and suicide bombing.
Jews were there a coupla thousand years before anyone invented the name "Palestinean". Jews even had an ancient capital in Jerusalem before Mohammed was toilet trained. You seem not to be clear on who the indigenous people of Israel really are. MondoFool?
it occurred and continues. you just need to pay attention.
Jake in Jerusalem wrote: "There has never in all of history been a country called Palestine…." But so what, Jake? Isn't it *people* who matter rather than the form they are organized by, if any? If, for instance, Iran found some way to nuke just those jews living in the occupied territories would it make a difference to you that they technically were not living in Israel since Israel has never formally annexed same? Indeed, aren't they living in no country whatsoever then just like those Palestinians? Yet we don't regard them as fair game to commit any atrocity upon, right? Moreover, if it is a matter of form then Israel is still on the weak end of the stick given the near unanimity of the world community (and certainly that of the World Court) that Israel is in violation of International law by building those settlements and therefor as a matter of form is essentially a rogue nation.
Get a time reference that goes back more than a few years, child. The Palestinian Arabs have been there since the Roman Empire. We all know most of the Jewish Israelis have been there at best since the earliest days of the Zionist movement in the last years of the 19th Century. And we know most have only been there since after the death of Hitler.
What "disputed territories?" Oh, you mean the occupied territories. How cute. And torture isn't torture. Now you Jake are a true light to the Gentiles. Keep on shining.
I recently did a post on the subject here on my blog. You don't need to bring up Nefesh B'Nefesh; just by looking at Israel's own statistical data you'll get a clear picture that most building in the settlements is done to house new migrants.
Very feeble use of hasbara, Jake, calling me an anti-semite, a liar, crying wolf yet again with your invented "anti-semitism." Keep it up. Glad to have you aboard. You are the best case we have for shutting off the welfare checks to Israel. We Americans could use the money at home. BTW, Jake, YOU and your ilk are the new Hitler and his nutty cronies, you just don't have the glamour. That's why you treasure your sticky collection of Stalag comix.
Persia has been Persia for thousands of years, even though now it is known as the state of Iran. The phrase "a sovereign entity" is a relatively late term. As has been pointed out, applicable to Israel only in circa 1948 context.
True, time for ismail to wipe his own butt, get rid of colonial jargon and POV. Get up to date. He's never been a victim in his life. He's a sheltered and thrice protected American jew living in a fantasy concocted by zionist jews. Next thing, he will be telling us all the Jews were slaves in Egypt, and then all jews were booted out of there. Actually many stayed. These are today's palestinians. Further none were ever slaves in Egypt. They were former military allies of Egypt who hated it when the Egyptian authority made them public works laborers, as they did all lame peoples they beat in battle. They had all kinds of fringe benefits worthy of their low class. The Jews didn't like to haul bricks, they wanted to continue killing others to benefit the Egyptian authority of the times.
Karin and I looked into Nefesh b'Nefesh years ago: Scamming Americans, Robbing Palestinians. Feldstein and AIG seem to have been involved with CDSs and synthetic CDOs constructed from mortgages of settlement properties: Greg Mankiw's Blog: Marty leaves AIG. A Russian Jewish friend, who lived in a settlement until he realized Israel was evil and emigrated, asked me why he was never able to avail himself of the scam: Followup: Scamming Americans, Robbing Palestinians.
All arabs are not alike; most come from former Western colonies over recent generations, and before that Turkish colonies, etc. Their regimes have had their own growing and securing pains as facsimiles of modern Western -style sovereign states, as is also true of most of S Africa and S America. The arabs as a whole did not so much miss an opportunity as not have sufficient time to transit the aftermath of the modern 30 years war (WW1 thru WW2). The diaspora jews benefited from the fact they had big moneybags and very influential media personnel in the Western countries, and the use of all that borrowed white christian originating but also secularizing gentile knowledge and networking for so many generations. History is a whore who not merely takes the opportunity, but first has the power and influence to do so in a way that forces the opportunity. As Truman said when asked why he signed on to recognize Israel as a sovereign nation among nations, he had no Arab constituency (and he needed NY Jewish votes and Jewish moneybags to finance his whistle stop campaign).
Anyway, why should Uncle Sam who has admitted his crime against the native Americans, and today even gives those people extra rights other Americans don't have, support Jews recreating the crime? And this so after the German leaders were hung, and the Germans were collectively punished, including the ethnic Germans from the East, by all the Allied Powers after WW2? AIPAC jews are dragging us down into the gutter with them. That's why our reputation in the world is so bad.
Slightly off-topic, about the penetration of fanatical religious settlers into the ranks of the IDF, from Ma'an, written by Uri Avnery: The state of the most moral army in the world
Zionists invented Jewish "peoplehood" in the last couple of decades of the 19th Century. The Arabs today known as Palestinians are descended from the Hebrews who lived in the Middle East in ancient times. Ashkenazis are not from the Middle East. They are descendants of some Hebrews who left the Middle East when Judaism went after converts like Mormons do, most Ashkenazis being non-Hebrew converts from the areas such as modern Georgia. And of course, the most influential Ashkenazis are ziofascists, the original source of Nazi philosophical justification.
I sent my Jewish relations by marriage your referenced url, ThorsPovoni, and they have not talked to me since, the same in-laws by marriage that were always ultra liberal. I have children. What do I do now? All my biological family live far away and I live in Chicago amidst my wife's extended Jewish family. l had to battle them all just to have my male children free of brutal tribal deprivation of their natural organ and future experience of full sexual pleasure.
Are you in West Rogers Park?
What rights do native Americans have that Americans at large don't?
Egad Ed, it you are taking advice from Thors on how to deal with your Jewish inlaws, then you are asking for problems. If you want to send them links, I suggest you use Haaretz resources. You really do not need to rely on overtly antisemitic sites.
I agree! I find Martillo's research fascinating, but sending your Jewish inlaws a link to his site is almost like giving out copies of *The Culture of Critique* for Chanuka presents.
As a matter of fact of history ,we palestinians are the Edomites,moabites,hebrews,philistines,canaaits,arabs,jebusites,we built Jebus,that is ,ahem,renamed Jerusalem,and yes Amalek.Read The Mythic Past,there were no Israel ,no king david ,no solomon.You"ll be very hard pressed to find any thing of archiological proof of any jewish kingdoms in palestine.You would think the prolific Egyptians would've chiseled something about their fabulously wealthy nation to the north.Iam sure they would've made a grab for king solomon riches.According to the great Hasbara book,the Israelits ethnically cleansed all off the above mentioned people from the Promised land.So what's your point Jake?Do you want to deny whats in your book?
Whether the region was known as Palestine or not is irrelevant. Palestinians OWNED the land they were living on, 50% of Palestine in fact. Jews only owned 7% of the land and ended up with over 50% by stealing it from the Palestinians.
There has never in all of history been a nationality of "Palestinean" until Yasser Arafat invented it in 1964. Rubbish of course. In the 1920's, all inhabitants of Palestine were known as Palestinian, Jew or Arab.
"Jews even had an ancient capital in Jerusalem before Mohammed was toilet trained." Jerusalem was created by the Cannanites before the Jews were even invented. In any case, a recent study has been released in Israel that debunks the myth of the diaspora and reveals that the majority of Jews were not removed by the Roman, but remained behind and converted to Islam. So the Palestinians are the decedents of the original Israelites, while most Jews are just converts to the religion.
"You restrict the palestinian organizations that promote murder and suicide bombing." Why not the Israeli organizations that promote murder and aerial bombing?
More charming behaviour from the Jewish religious nutcases upon whose altar we are putting the futures of our own children… http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/06/261... They're so like us, aren't they? A real democracy with real white people in a sea of mad mullahs, eh?
"Let me see if I have this right. " As usual, you don't. "Where should they move to? " Israel, not the occupied territories. "Efrat is part of a Jewish area that was heavily Jewish until it was ETHNICALLY CLEANSED BY ARABS" Efrat is an illegal settlement and was NEVER part of Israel. "Jordanians and Palestineans (same thing, really)" That's a lie of course. "Now that Jews move back, you have a problem with this" Just like stealing a car is illegal, so it stealing land. "Oh, these are not "illegal settlements". They are Jewish towns in disputed territories" Same thing. The word disputed is a sleazy term Israel invented to sound less malevolent, but the territories are not disputed, they are occupied. if they were disputed, there would be UN peace keepers there to arbitrate disputes. "It has NEVER IN HISTORY been classified as "Palestine" nor as any modern country." Wrong again. It has always been know as Palestine, since the Romans. "And if Israelis (or Arabs, for that matter) move there without being forced by the govt, then this is perfectly legal under international law" Wrong again. Settling in occupied territories is a violation of the 4th Geneva Convention. Here endeth the lesson.
As it can plainly be seen, the problem is not just with murderous colonial settlers, it is with the state of Israel. The heart of the problem is racist exclusivity, and so far international impunity for crimes against humanity.
Jews have been a people for 3500 years.
You actually don't know that you are the same "people", as the basis of Palestinian identity is recent geographical and MANY different peoples have migrated through and inter-married, including Jews. There is no people that have "always been there". The formation and preservation of a social identity occurs at some point, some reference point.
Nationality and the idea of a nation state is a European concept. By your logic, Japan didn't exist until the 18th century. The label 'Palestinian' used to describe residents of the area has been in use in its Arabic form since the 12th century. Better luck next time
sovereign entities are an invention born out of the Treaty of Westphalia in the 1600s in Europe. Most states in the world weren't sovereign entities in 1918 but later many did become states through a common acceptance of traditional land divisions. Palestine was one such land division.
No. See comments above, including your own. a religion is not a people.
Here's an interesting idea. I was having a few with a jewish friend of mine last night and he mentioned his idea for a solution to the settlements in the West Bank. He figures, rightfully in my opinion, the Stellements are being pushed by American Jews more than anyone else, for whatever the reason. So he figures, every Jew who choses the W-Bank settlement to live should also be offered similar option in Florida including the removal of who ever is occupying the chosen property. In contrast, the Palestinians who are removed to make room for the new settler, if the settler insists on the W-Bank, then the Palestinian should get the land in Florida as an exchange. Interesting? I wonder if the Americans would then realize the impact they are having on another people. How many of these settlers would quickly chose Florida instead if they had that option…
They especially were miffed about Scamming Americans, Robbing Palestinians.
I've lived there, also Skokie, Evanston, Lincolnwood, and various surrounding places farther north, more affluent.
Nothing like having endless gobs of orthodox jewish spit rain down on you because god mandates you do nothing one day a week, not even flick on or off a light switch–even if you're not jewish. Where is that in the Noahide Laws?
That article simplified the scam because Karin and I did not believe that the requesting paper's readership would get to the end of the article if we included the fraudulent securitization aspects.
Kevin MacDonald told me he was inspired by Cuddihy's Ordeal of Civility, which was a National Book Awards Finalist in 1975. Cuddihy was for the most part clueless about Jewish life in E. Europe and the Jewish role in modernization — probably the reason the book was a finalist. From Origins: Zionist Gay Pubic Diplomacy:
I recommended to MacDonald that in the future he should probably be a little more skeptical about secondary literature written by Jews about Jews. If I had known Cuddihy before he wrote his book, I would have made the same recommendation to him.
Yeah, they blend. Here's some more charming behaviour straight from inside the Israeli discrimination machine, in this case shows Israel honors its non-Jewish IDF veterans by cutting their water supply: Druze, Circassians demonstrate in Tel-Aviv Published: 07.09.09, 12:34 / Israel News Some 200 Druze and Circassian protestors demonstrated Thursday in front of the IDF base in Tel-Aviv. They protested the ongoing discrimination by the government, climaxing at the water cut-off in several of the community's villages. The demonstration was held on the same day the IDF salutes the Druze soldier.(Daniel Edelson)
Probably a shrewd call. Those fraudulent securitization aspects are really damning; of course most Americans wouldn't have a clue. Interesting, my Jewish in-laws–I always have to walk on egg shells at family and holiday events. Smile, be nice, nod whenever an American Jew is in the news, which is always pointed out if its good news and ignored if the breaking news is not so good for the Jews–the only exception has been Madoff. He should be shot because he took advantage of Jews. I did have a good, regular communication with one of my wife's nieces who is very liberal until–you ready for this? I sent her that same Scamming Americans, Robbing Palestinians from Martillo's website. The niece has not spoken to me since….
Glad to see you're back Jake, after threatening to leave this site forever, you present such flawed arguments, I don't know who to respond to when you're silent. Your main argument here is that Palestine never existed as a state but a region, I think many replies answered this question and if not, i would be interested in knowing when you think legitimate history started and if Israel was the very first legitimate state in history, at least as you see it. Second which I find confusing, even coming from you, that the land is disputed not illegal. Given that as your reason for justifying the settlements, does it not exist even in Israeli law that any land dispute "must be settled leagally" before any changes or anyone moves into it? As far as ethnically cleansing, Israel's history is full of documented examples of how Arabs were forced to leave their homes, land and businesses to make room for jews and in some cases, even their newborn given to new jews who did not have children.
There wasn't even an Arabic language in the times of the Roman Empire!!! Jerusalem was the Capitol of the Jewish State in the times of King David, over 1,000 years BEFORE the Roman Empire! Does your BabySitter know you are on the Internet?? (This kind of response is typical for this website; entirely baseless, ahistorical and hate-filled. MondoLies.)
Israel is not occupying the territory of any country. The West Bank has never been recognized in International Law as the territory of ANY country. Therefore, while a DISPUTE continues over such territories, they are properly called DISPUTED TERRITORIES and not Occupied.
1) You have AGAIN failed to address your earlier false accusation. Instead, you blabber on with the tired old anti-Jewish psycho-babble. 2) Your references (here and in previous posts) to Nazi pornography only reinforce the impression that you are a moron and not a serious debater interested in any kind of truth. You are a real MondoBigot.
Sin, the issue of a Palestine never having existed before is relevant to the "Palestinean" demand that Jerusalem is their capital, even though there is no historical, political, religious nor cultural foundation for this demand. That is the context in whic I mentioned it. As for International Law, it forbids COLONIZATION of OCCUPIED territory. Thus if, say, Panama were to occupy an existing country, say England, and FORCE PANAMANIANS to settle in England, THAT would be illegal. Because the W Bank is NOT Occupied but rather disputed and because Israelis are NOT forced to move there but choose to, of their own free will, such activitiy is LEGAL by International law. Incidentally, there was LOADS of this in Europe in the 20th Century. All legal. If the UN doesn't like this, then it just demonstrates to those who haven't noticed yet that the UN has been hijacked by the Islamic states (e.g. UNHCR) and is not a moral body – and maybe never was.
There were and are EUROPEANS and NEW ENGLANDERS. That doesn't make those descriptions "nationalities". The Invention of "Palestinean nationality" was made by a young Egyptian revolutionary named Yasser Arafat. He later became a mass murderer and terrorist, received a Nobel PEACE Prize (of all things!) and died a terrorist, recognized as such even by his close supporters.
al-Shafiq, COUNTRIES are a pretty modern concept. NATIONS have existed for much longer. Thus the Jews, Arabs, Japanese and Chinese have all been around for a very long time (much longer than the USA, say) but as COUNTRIES, they have only had them for the last century or two. "Palestinean" does indeed describe people from Palestine, in the same way that "Earthling" describes people from Earth. Neither implies nationality. My father was a Palestinean – we still have his id documents. He was very Jewish, I assure you….
Arabs from the East an West Banks of Palestine are FAMOUS for their thievery. They are most famous for this, of course, among ARABS. They KNOW who really threatens them. Ask around in private – and tell us what you find. Do you recall the HALF MILLION PALESTINEANS who were SUMMARILY DEPORTED from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia for participating in Saddam's rape and pillage there? Palestineans stole and continue to steal land. Their bleating of having been robbed is so empty…
al-Shafiq is wrong again. Palestine is not such a division. JORDAN IS. It was made out of 3/4 of Historic Palestine, on the East Bank. This is why it was originally named Trans-Jordan. Check any old map over 100 years old and you'll see that I"m right.
Shingo is full of lies. That's why Shingo loves MondoLies. 1) Efrat is part of Israel and was so even before the 1948 armistice lines. 2) Jordaniand and Palestineans are the SAME FAMILIES. Same language, religion, dialect, accent blood, DNA. There are VASTLY greater differences between Californians, Texans, Midwesterners, New Englanders and New Yorkers, but those are all AMERICANS. But when EAST Bank and WEST Bank Arabs want a TWO-STATE solution, they decide that thery are really different people. One Arab state on the East Bank, another Arab state on the West Bank. Dishonest. Just like you. 3) Stealing cars? Funny that you mention this. Among "Palestineans", this is THE national industry. Stealing cars from Jews is one of the main reasons that they want free access into Israel… More coming up…
Shingo lies even more. I correct Shingo with facts. Stubborn, real facts. 4) UN (and international) PEACE keepers only MONITOR Peace Agreements. They do not MAKE them. This is why the TIPH and MFO are in Hebron, Sinai etc but NOT in Somalia or Afghanistan. You really should find out about things before you embarass yourself in public. Repeatedly. 5) If you think Palestine was a country, I dare you to tell us who the first president was or where it's capital was? You can't because there was never any such country. Shingo, you are a MondoBigot, happily wallowing in your own hatred and ignorance here, at your natural home, MondoLies.
Brad, You are clearly not my friend but your civil language deserves a decent response. You are to be commended for your apparent decency. Especially for someone on a site as hate-filled and deeply dishonest as MondoLies. Please don't disappoint me in the future. 1) Palestine having never existed is relevant for the current claims on Jerusalem and territory on the West Bank. A Palestinean state already exists on the East Bank. It is (currently) called Jordan. Arafat himself first tried to liberate Jordan for the Palestineans. Lookup Black September, 1970. 2) You are correct that land disputes should be resolved peacefully. While Arafat was an avowed terrorist, this was not an option. When Arafat renounced terrorism, Israel did, indeed, proceed as you suggested in the Oslo Process. When Arafat turned out to be a double-crossing murderer, this option failed again; Arafat never complied with a single clause of any agreement he ever signed.. His successors cannot continue (Abbas has no authority and Hamas wants everlasting Jihad). More in next comment…
Brad, 3) Your "documented history" of ethnic cleansing is very flawed. There is an entire industry of propagandists like Noam Chomsky, John Pilger, Phil MondoLies and others who are so blinded by their hatred of Jews (even if they are Jewish themselves) that cannot write a single honest sentence. Be careful in your research, use your intelligence and decide for yourself when reading these accounts. I wish you well in finding the truth. It IS out there…
Just today the Director of the Tel Hashomer hospital near Tel Aviv revealed several such attempts by Arabs from Gaza whose LIVES HAD BEEN SAVED at the hospital, planning terrorist attacks on the hospital. Mind-boggling. That's Arabs for you…
Citizen the Bigot! Is wasn't JEWS who invented their "peoplehood". It was the antisemites, like you. In the Spanish Inquisition, the Russian Pogroms, the Slaviv Pale of Settlement, the Italian Ghittos, the Roman and Egyptian enslavement of Jews. If you don't have real facts or reasoned argument to share withus, why do you bother at all? Is it because MondoBigots Love MondoLies???
Tell that to Hamas. Or Osama bin Laden. Or the Saudi Family (which thinks that their FAMILY is a nation)…
Dagnon, the fool. "Read The Mythic Past,there were no Israel ,no king david ,no solomon." That there are graves of and books written by these people will come as some shock to you. Brace yourself… "You"ll be very hard pressed to find any thing of archiological proof of any jewish kingdoms in palestine." I would be happy to personally take you on a tour of archeologival digs right here in Jerusalem of this evidence you don't belive in. Oh, done by non-Jewish scientists, over the past 2-3 centuries. And on-going today. Your claim of ethnic cleansing is similarly false. Don't bother coming back. Unless you actually have facts.
Shingo. you are regurgitating propaganda. Bring some sources. or something new. Otherwise, you still smell of your antisemitic vomit.
Err yes it has, which is why the International Court of Justice, the UN Security Council the International Red Cross and every other organisation worth its salt refers to them as occupied territories. You should back off the propaganda. This is too much even for you
Yes there was an Arabic language at the time of Romans. Granted, the Palestinians didn't speak Arabic at the time, but the modern Palestinians are descended from the ones that lived in the Roman Empire.
Now you're just getting ridiculous. The US, Israel's bitch-boy aint buying that argument, which tells you something
Actually no, nations have not existed for longer. Apart from a few examples such as Britain, France and Japan, nations have not existed. Russia is a good example. All of the Americas being another, India/Pakistan/Bangladesh; South East Asia, East Asia (minus Japan and parts of China), Oceania, all of Africa….so yes pretty much the whole world.
So now they're a nationality? I thought they were just an invention? I said this to you last week and its ringing true again: You don't make sense even when you try to be racist
Wrong! Pre 1917, Jordan and Palestine were two separate regions according to cultural norms. They were joined together by the British for the sake of easing administration of the region.
1) Do you know how to read a map? It's nowhere near the border! 2) Actually, if you met a Palestinian and a Jordanian, you'd notice the difference in dialect and accent. It's something they always teach other about. 3) Racist tripe. If I said something about Jews and Bernie Madoff, you'd be crying anti-Semite by now and for once, you'd be right. It's a shame you don't understand the irony of your own words.
Jake; not sure why you would think I am or am not your friend, neither is the purpose of my posts. As a History buff, all i am trying to do is to seaprate facts from fiction by researching what people contribute to these blogs and then research historical docs to support one way or the other. I don't share your opinion about most of the contributors to this site but that's your option. I also don't support your opinion of Arafat, at least not the early Arafat. He definitley went wrong but only after he shed his freedom fighter ideals and joined the flawed political process which lead his people to their current state. He, by the way also fought in Lebanon where he had his last stand before surrendering to the political process. Both Arafat and your leaders in Israel contributed to the murders commited against both people. Do you think Lebanon is also part of Palestine?. more…
4) If the area was disputed, the UN would be there to keep the peace so that no side could launch an attack on the other. Like the disputed area between Indian and Pakistan Kashmir. But knowing you, you probably think that's a name of an ice-cream. 5) Palestine's first president was Yasser Arafat. Its capital is East Jerusalem. What that has to do with what Shingo said, I don't know
Hate filled? Try looking in the mirror.
"Anti-Semite! " That phrase sounds familiar
Jakey, Jakey, Jakey I think you should calm down, breathe and count to 10. It sounds like you're going to explode any second from the anger of having your arguments destroyed. Now we wouldn't want that would we? Especially when your mommy told you not to talk to those evil Jew-haters?
Arafat's biggest fault was to try and play in a field where he was tottally out of his league. I am certain if he simply continued an armed struggle, at least he would have died for a cause and would be remebered for it, as it was he died becasue everyone wanted him gone, just like Sharon. That was another page in history and unfortunately by the death of these two nothing changed. I won't go into Oslo as I am sure a little bit of research on your part, you would realize, Israel never followed any of the terms which had a counter response by the Palestinians. Chomsky, Pilger and Phil, self hating jews … I won't give you this, you know better. My biggest disappointment in your argument is a new line that B-yahou and his aides are now pushing, Palestinians belong in Jordan. Are you willing to lose Jordan's support just to push this lost idea, i feel sorry for the Jordanians as I suspect after the next war, they will inherit millions of Palestinians. last comment
Jake; Think, as I suspect you are an intelligent although a misguided person. Even if Jordan agrees to absorb the Palestinians, how many more generations are you willing to bet on that in the future, Palestinians will forget and simply give up. Your people didn't forget for 2000 years, how long do you think it will take the Palestinians. Yes Jake, the Palestinians, even if you chose to reject that they exist. Chomsky is a loving jew, and loves jews more than you can imagine, unlike people like Alllan Dershowitz who hate jews and wishes they destroy themselves by destroying their history.
Remember when Arafat hollowed and gutted Tel-Aviv with his air force during operation Peace For Litani? He should've been in the Hague for that.
It figures a guy who constantly calls Arabs LIARS would take at face value an Arab monarch's rationale for mass summary deportation.