Sarah Palin talking to Barbara Walters:
"I disagree with the Obama administration on [Israeli settlements]," Palin told Walters. "I believe that the Jewish settlements should be allowed to be expanded upon, because that population of Israel is, is going to grow. More and more Jewish people will be flocking to Israel in the days and weeks and months ahead. And I don’t think that the Obama administration has any right to tell Israel that the Jewish settlements cannot expand."
"More and more Jewish people will be flocking to Israel in the days and weeks and months ahead." Does she know something that we don’t?
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RE: “More and more Jewish people will be flocking to Israel in the days and weeks and months ahead.” Does she know something that we don’t?
MY COMMENT: Good question, but just now I’m very busy ‘flocking’ my Christmas tree with artificial snow. When I am finished flocking my tree, I’ll give your provocative question the thought it deserves.
Whew! Flocking Christmas trees is hard work. Thank God I’m blessed with an abundance of “Protestant Work Ethic” (PWE). Now, let’s see, what was that question?
UPDATE: The artificial snow is now dry. If I do say so myself, I am an expert at flocking! I suppose my extraordinary talent for flocking just naturally comes along with my super-abundance of PWE (Protestant/Puritan Work Ethic).
I am overjoyed to report that I have just finished putting the very latest LED lighting system on my tree. “She sho is purdy!” Seriously though, I will not try to explain ‘what all’ this LED lighting system is capable of, but when you turn it to the ‘Adoration Of The Magi’ setting, the tree truly becomes a “religious experience”. It makes me feel so incredibly close to both God and the iddy, biddy, baby Jesus*.
* FROM “Oh Holy Night” (“Cantique de Noël”), New Orleans Soul Gospel by Irma Thomas
P.S. If anyone knows where I can obtain the ‘iddy, biddy, baby Jesus’ version of Irma Thomas’ “Oh Holy Night” (“Cantique de Noël”), I would be ever so greatful! I have the regular version, but I want the version with the “iddy, biddy, baby Jesus” refrain. Please, I’m beseeching you!
Dickerson, I’m glad you asked about “O Holy Night” one of my favorite Christmas songs, and one that demands the strictest taste in it’s exposition. Here is a beautiful, if informal rendering:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDgSQiUcVnM
You better believe I am taking every chord I can from this version for my own. It sounds wonderful on organ.
I wish Jews had proselytised among America’s African-origin population much more extensively. It would have had a most positive effect on our liturgical music, at a minimum. I’m trying as hard as I can, but I’m only one guy, with eight fingers.
I don’t get the joke. It seems to be some sort of parody, with heaps of ridicule. But what is it exactly that you are ridiculing? Maybe I can join in the laughter if I could only understand it.
Just wait until you see what he does with his Menorah! I see eight nights of lasers and pyrotechnics. Dickerson, don’t forget the necessary permits and fire dep. clearances. And post the video.
Hey, I know what would be cool, Dickerson (you don’t mind if I call you that? Mr. 3870 seems so formal) and very much in the tradition. Okay the first night Hanukkah, big laser light show, fireworks, presents, okay? Everybody comes back on the second night, primed with expectations, and nothing happens except another candle (with appropriate brocha of course) gets lit.
This, of course, starts major controversy in the Jewish community over whether Christmas is really one day or twelve and what is right Jewish response. When we were kids these were serious discussions. We usually, if I remember right, using the most exhaustive Torah exegesis, came down on the side of presents all eight days as the most important Jewish principle, well worth martyrdom.
Well, Mooser, I think I always get your jokes because they are so crude and unsubtle. No problem there. I’m sure the joke about the Christmas tree and its decorations is hilarious if only my sense of humor were up to the task. I just need someone to explain it to me. How else can I learn?
OK, Mooser, after a decent interval I’m taking it back about all your jokes being crude and unsubtle. Hey, I did say all the better to help my comprehension. I just didn’t get the joke about the Christmas tree … but I’ll work on it.
So, Mooser, you are (mock?) whining because the black Americans’ gospel tradition enhanced all the more the religious experience of Christmas? You appreciate their contribution
so much you wish the Jewish people had not kept so much their Hanukkah celebration to themselves? Which is it? Or do you simply have mixed feelings in the matter? That’s OK too.
Given that all spiritual groups appreciate the enhancement of music and song, which holiday has the wider universal appeal?
Mooser, 8 days instead of 1, yes, think of what an extended light show that could be! Like a concert lasting over a week! Too bad for the Christians they are limited by the fact it doesn’t take that long to birth a baby. Still, they could argue among themselves
about whether or not to segment sequential minutes and celebrate that way on the birth day rather than just show a creche with the baby Jesus already born, surrounded by his attendants. A tremendous opportunity lost for more niche
products/props to tell the tale! Still, something about the one precious moment/day
to make it all worth being thrown to the lions!
Better yet the Christians could celebrate Xmas for 9 straight months every year! Think of the booming business!
Personally, I think the imported pagan German tradition of the Xmas tree and its song is the wonderful aspect–it sure was for me as a kid; even now in my dotage
and agnostic self, it’s the Xmas tree that moves me a tad when visiting friends, relatives, neighbors over the holidays. Dickerson’s delight expressed above
is very touching to me.
we need to be listening to funnymental religious folks more often… it can lighten up our sense of doom and gloom, if we manage to make it thru their madness…. i don’t know the difference between a neo con and a funnymentalist, but apparently their is one…
Randy Scheunemann is the neocon israeli agent/spy/traitor assigned to Palin and these are his words programmed into her pea-brain that she is spouting. Anything, anything she says vis-a-vis israel, Middle East is not an original thought. She is a joke anyway and will transition over to reality television infamy soon enough.
Haha! What does it say about your cause when Sarah Palin is one of your staunchest defenders? She has discredited herself so many times. And I didn’t think her brand of populism had much Jewish appeal. Seriously, I wish Jewish Zionists everywhere would ask themselves, “am I really comfortable being on the same team as her on this?”
Does she know something that we don’t?
With her, I think the safe answer to this question, on anything, is no.
Sarah is like your run of the mill loud mouth opinionated holy roller, these religious abound with mindless fanatics –
SARAH PALIN’S SOUL SISTER
I see that the inconsequential Sarah has been studying some international geography.
Ah yes – Jesus is coming back to the holy lands with the help of that bint!
Hallafuckingluyah!
“bint” implies virginity. (sorry, the pigeon is a language policeman)
“More and more Jewish people will be flocking to Israel in the days and weeks and months ahead.” Does she know something that we don’t?
The Jewish people are nothing but cannon fodder to these people.
You only exist to fulfill Millenialist prophecies.
Mr. Horowitz, are you suggesting that Sarah Palin is actually a well informed and intelligent person?
She’s an end-times observer/advocate.
One of those rare things we agree upon, huh.
perfect for the present style of american politics, where dumbocracy is in full unabashed operation…
Look how limp-wristed the Nazi’s statement is. He states a fact. But doesn’t go further because he knows he needs the support of the fascist Christian Right.
You’re so deeply amoral Witty. Fucking traitor.
Cliff, I frequently share with you the frustration at Richard Witty’s pronounces. But it is really jarring to hear you call him names and use swear words.
Perhaps. But I think the more damaging thing, than to resort to vulgarity, would be to treat Witty’s hypocrisy as credible. The bald fact is, Witty, on a fundamental level, supports what Israel is doing and that therefore makes him culpable on a rhetorical level for those atrocities.
The weird confluence between Zionism, anti-Semitism, and philo-Semitism: all say the Jews must move to Israel.
But it has become even greater anti-Semitism to suggest that Jews should stay here in America and not go to a place where they can hurt themselves and others.
homingpigeon: “But it has become even greater anti-Semitism to suggest that Jews should stay here in America and not go to a place where they can hurt themselves and others. ”
Huh? Sorry, I’m not very familiar with your thinking, so could you explain how this idea indicates antisemitism?
Also, more generally, I’m an unlikely bird to be defending Sarah Palin, but hold it for a moment on her religion. As I understand it, she has always belonged to a Pentecostal Christian denomination with “fundamentalist” beliefs, which include the teaching that ultimately many Jews will convert to Christianity and “go to Heaven”. I’ve never understood why Jews would assume that Christians who hold this belief, possibly including poor Sarah, would necessarily be antisemitic (unless you equate Jewish persons with the religion of Judaism). Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to assume, AT MOST, that they have anti-Judaism-as-distinct-from-Christianity prejudices? That would make their attitude about it no worse than the anti-Christian bigotry I detect in the comments in this thread.
“she has always belonged”
Oh, for God’s sake, cut the crap. Sarah Palin has never in her life “always belonged” to anything.
Yeah, yeah, she belonged to a Pentacostal Christian denomination which says your teen-age daughter’s boyfriend should come live in her room while she is sick. And one which doesn’t place any value on veracity.
Are you having trouble, Ishmael, with basic phony-detection? Cause that comes way before “anti-Christian bigotry”
Mooser, of course I know that Palin is a phony in many ways. She is hypocritical in many ways. But I see no reason to believe that she is phony in her professions of religious belief (beliefs that I do not share), beliefs that are basic to the church she was born into and raised within. What evidence do you have that she has not “always belonged” to that religious environment?
I would imagine, Mooser, that I have had much more experience in my life with people of Sarah Palin’s ilk than have you. My opinion is that she is likely to be quite sincere in her religious beliefs – such as they are, and whatever you might think of those beliefs.
Much of the criticism I see of Sarah Palin appears to be inspired not so much by reaction to her own character as by aversion to her avowed fundamentalist Christian beliefs. It really wouldn’t matter to many how bright and capable she might be as long as she holds those beliefs. If we were talking about Joe Lieberman (the VP candidate in 2000) that would be called bigotry. In the case of a hypothetically brilliant, capable, fundamentalist Sarah Palin, it would also be bigotry – and it would be present in abundance.
In case you’re wondering: No, I don’t plan to vote for Sarah Palin.
She was not born into Protestant Fundamentalism. She was born into a Catholic family, and baptized Catholic. Not that I am bragging. As a Catholic myself, my response to this is very Henny Youngman, “take Sarah Palin…please!”.
And fortunately (for us Catholics…we have enough problems), they did.
RE: “I would imagine, Mooser, that I have had much more experience in my life with people of Sarah Palin’s ilk than have you.”
You dare to question Mooser’s crystal ball? How dare you? His comments constantly indicate he knows everybody and everything inside and out–even if he never met you or read a book , or even googled on the subject at issue before he posts his comments.
He even thinks he’s funny!
And BTW, I would never vote for Palin either. Just as I would never vote for Lieberman.
Is the good christian Palin a proponent of the golden rule?
Walters followed up by if asking if Palin would support expanded settlements even if it was into “Palestinian areas.”
“I believe that the Jewish settlements should be allowed to expand,” Palin answered.
Remember when she was running for VP how a tiny Israeli flag suddenly appeared on her home office window sill? If memory serves, it was way off to one side, as if it had just snuck out on the sill from behind the side curtain.
Will be interesting to see which books she says she holds dear when some smart alec
poses the question again before the camera.
Now I see Witty is correct; Palin believes in the rapture, that the war on Iraq is God’s war
(like Shrub), and that presumably Iran is not part of God’s plan. She’s a staunch supporter of Israel like any evangelical fundi. I’d bet she never heard of Finklestein or even the Nakba–she can’t see them from her front porch.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/04/palins-evangelical-faith-drives-pro-israel-view/
Wanna read something really scary about Palin? I mean besides the fact that when she became governor of Alaska she dedicated that state to Jesus in public?
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/politics/144005/palin’s_prayer_leader_hinted_terrorist_attack_could_make_her_president/
Maybe this is why Phil and Witty will have to pack their bags?
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/11/06/sarah-palins-connections-with-mary-glazier-c-peter-wagners-new-apostolic-reformation/
Citizen, it is a great exaggeration to assert that all fundamentalist Evangelicals are staunch supporters of the State of Israel, in the political sense. Such misconceptions tend to cause gross over-estimates of the number of politically Zionist Christians. Also, if memory serves, Sarah Palin is Pentecostal (Assembly of God), not Evangelical.
How religion guides Sarah Palin:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-palin-religion_06sep06,0,3371419.story
Palin may be awkward at playing the media game when it comes to Israel and Jewish interests, but I seriously doubt that she doesn’t understand that Palestinians were pushed form their land to make way for European Jews. Very few people do not understand how Israel was formed, and most Christians aren’t Zionists
I don’t know how long you’ve lived, Todd, nor where, but to assert that” very few people do not understand how Israel was formed” is just ridiculous.
Few people don’t understand that European Jews took Palestine from the Palestinians after WWII. I would guess that most people have little knowledge of the politics of zionism, and scant knowledge of what happened on the ground in Palestine. I don’t argue otherwise. However, most people have heard the official story of Jews returning to retake their homeland, and understand what happens when one group displaces another.
I have to side with Todd. When I was a kid, I actually wondered where Israel came from. Really wasn’t until I started college that I learned what Israel was and why so many people with German, Polish and Russian names were living in the Middle East and who it was they displaced to make room for themselves.
I went to Catholic school, and they taught us fairly reliable history (let me put it this way, they didn’t whitewash the Crusades, or what was done to Galileo by the Church of that day) and even then, with the exception of one clever nun who had some oblique commentary that I haven’t recognized until long after in retrospect, there wasn’t even any talk at all about what Israel was. Everything I learned I had to learn on my own initiative.
I will agree with you, Citizen, insofar as there are very few informed people who don’t understand how Israel was formed. The crux of the problem, is that there are very few informed people.
OK, Chaos, I can live with that. Most average Americans would not know an Ashkenazi
from a Jewish family who had lived in the Mandate land for eons. All that the average American “knows” is that Hitler gassed the Jews, and now Jews have their own country. They also tend to buy into the concept of Israel is our Pal with the same interest, that interest being Arabs are terrorists and we are (absurdly) engaged
in a War with Islamic terrorists–they never think, isn’t terrorism a tactic? They have no clue such a paradigm sets up an endlessly lucrative endless war. And they have no clue that the outside world might not think those that hate the USA do so out of American foreign policy; rather it’s because “they are jealous.” Even those
Americans who live in the street, and ever-increasing proportion.
“Very few people do not understand how Israel was formed, ”
Sorry, not true, know it myself, over a lifetime. And even the most cursory type of survey or research will confirm it: people have no fucking idea of how Israel got there, but it had something to do with all those unfortunate Jews who were murdered by Hitler and the Nazis.
“and most Christians aren’t Zionists.”
I don’t know. Naybe they are, maybe they aren’t, but they don’t seem inclined to worry much (except for a few of us) about what Israel does, after all, they are doing it to Muslims, so it must be good.
I think it’s common knowledge that Jews from Europe returned to take Palestine. The story of exile and return is BS, but most people understand the basics of what happened.
I don’t believe that anywhere near a majority of Christians are Zionists. Many have an affinity for the Jews of the book, but I don’t believe that they would support what is being done to Palestinians, any more than they would support what Hutus and Tutsis do to one another. If anything, I would say that most American Christians have a strong isolationist streak when it comes to politics.
Jews in Israel fulfills the book of Revelation, any Christian who believes in that or wants redemption is a Zionist.
I am an Zionist and I don’t support what is happening to the Palestinians anymore than what is happening to the Hutus and Tutsis.
How is the story of exile and return BS? Jerusalem and returning to Zion are a fundamental factor to Judaism.
The point is not whether it’s a fundamental blah blah, the point is whether it’s true. If it is true, what are the implications?
You can’t have your Jewish State w/o expelling and destroying the indigenous society.
That’s what happened in 48′. That’s what is slowly happening in the present. From one admin. to the next admin. – it’s like the phrase ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’.
Just because Zionist Nazis like yourself aren’t able to exterminate the Palestinians, doesn’t mean you wouldn’t want to and it doesn’t mean you aren’t finding new ways to dispossess them.
The common knowledge sense is that (1) Hitler gassed the Jews in Europe, and (2) then, they went to Israel. And, (3) Palestinians are Arabs, that is sandn****** (a status below blacks). They are Zionist (without knowing the word) in the sense that they understand Israel is the Jewish insurance policy they won’t be gassed again–and no matter how much many of them
dislike the Jews they have encountered in their daily lives–usually not many, but if so,
usually with some sort of power that has (often negatively ) affected their individual lives.
yonira says: “Jews in Israel fulfills the book of Revelation, any Christian who believes in that or wants redemption is a Zionist.”
Your statement is incorrect. The Book of Revelations has received many competing interpretations in Christian theology, up to and including exclusion from the Canon. Only someone quite unfamiliar with Christianity would say that any Christian who wants “redemption” must “believe” in the contents of that particular book.
As Todd has said, a majority (probably a large majority) of people who call themselves Christians are not Zionists, certainly not in the sense you use the term. Of those fundamentalist Christians who can be considered “Zionist” owing to their spiritual beliefs, theirs for the most part is a “soft” Zionism that could easily be obliterated by a significant shift in their political views. In today’s politico-economic environment, such shifts might occur at any time.
If you derive comfort from the idea that Zionism is going to continue receiving widespread support among American Christians, then I would say it’s time you began to feel really uncomfortable.
You got it right, Mooser. I left home at age 17 and have been around a good part of the USA for more time than probably anyone on this blog.
“How is the story of exile and return BS? Jerusalem and returning to Zion are a fundamental factor to Judaism.”
Only since the Zionists made it so, and never for a very big slice of the Jewish people.
In fact, if I am not mistaken, getting us back to Zion is God’s business, our’s is just trying to deserve it.
Did you not read the article about Israeli Prof. Schlomo Sand, Yonira? His story of the Jewish people seems much more plausible to me, since it pretty well tallies with , well, you know, reality.
But tell me, Yonira, if we are still the same people since getting kicked out, who are the girls they are chasing in the vans? You know, the ones going out with Arab men? That’s not a good way to maintain that ol’ racial purity!
What you call the “fundemental factors” of Judaism is a bunch of made up hooey, concocted to serve Zionism’s purposes, to deprive others of their homes and rights.
But please, yonira, please don’t get the idea this is anti-Semetic accusation. Re-writing history to serve a regime’s or movement’s purposes is something that almost everyone has done. I think I may be forgiven a little bit of ethnic pride when I say that we Jews do it as well as anyone, and better than most!
But anyway Yoyo, baby, if you know some magic secret by which Jews can take things, and nobody has any less, or murder people but not make them dead, or oppress people to make them happy, please, please let me know. It’s possible I have missed out on some of the “fundamental factor” in Judaism.
“I am an Zionist and I don’t support what is happening to the Palestinians”
1) So what? You “don’t support”
“what is happening ” so bad you can’t even name what it is.
2) And Gee, couldn’t we go back just a few threads and find you in full cry against the Palestinians and their “culture of death” and all the rest? Why yes, we could, calling them “killers” and whining about the “thousands of rockets”
But that’s all right, Yoni, we know that ziocaine makes you say one thing one day, and then forget what you said. We’re used to that.
And you don’t care if I stay here in this barrel forever, Yoni, or how many flashlight batteries I have to buy before I find an honest Zionist. C’mon Yoni, it’s cold in this thing. (But on me, it looks good)
“Jews in Israel fulfills the book of Revelation, any Christian who believes in that or wants redemption is a Zionist”
I didn’t know you were a Christian, Yoni! You do remember what happens to the Jews in Revelation, don’t you. Hey but if the Christians are dumb enough to help you get to Israel cause they think you are all gonna suddenly keel over when Jesus comes, well, they got another think coming, right, Yoni?
God, Zionists are pathetic.
“God, Zionists are pathetic. ”
Am I the only one who is disturbed by this kind of personal attack? It seems to me that this is becoming part of the culture here.
Phil? Adam?
Some of them probably think the Jews will see the Jesus light and convert; as for the rest? Well, that’s not only Jews that will be killed as the forces of darkness. See, no anti-semitism in the book of Revelation. Feel the rapture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_significance_of_Jerusalem
You’d think the Israelites could have built their own city instead of stealing one from the Jebusites.
Now that’s an open invitation for Witty to bring up Hasbara #4 once again.
The Evangelists’ support of Israel is based on their belief that when the great majority of Jews settled-down in Palestine – Jesus Christ will make his second-coming – and his mission would be to convert Jews to Christianity and whosoever refuse – Jesus will put him to sword.
I have read several people calling Barack Obama as “the Messiah” – but not Palin, who, I believe is an Eavangelist.
Obama: The “Promised Messiah”
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/obama-the-promised-messiah/
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