Here’s the video accompanying Isabel Kershner’s piece on the West Bank protests last week in the Times. It’s billed: "The Spectacle of West Bank Protests… With a stalled peace process, Israeli soldiers and Palestinian protesters [no mention of Israelis and internationals] clash violently each Friday. The skirmishes are a combination of desperate activism and staged theater." In the video, the narrator, evidently Jaron Gilinsky, who I’m sure is Arab-American (sorry; Jewish irony), says that Jonathan Pollak "claims" to have suffered brain hemmorhages from tear gas cartridges and presents a Palestinian hit in the kidney area by a rubber bullet as play-acting his injury. It calls the protests "theatrical… spectacle." Disgraceful. Remember that these are protests against violent occupation and separate roadways and land confiscation, worse than Jim Crow conditions. Note that on his website Gilinsky, who is based in Jerusalem, questions the non-violence of the protests.
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So basically, he says the protests are not really non-violent, and if they are non-violent, then they are ‘theatrical’.
Sounds like Witty.
Israel has successfully broken down any efforts to demonstrate non violently down over the decades. Now that there is more attention on the non violent actions they call it “theatrical”
From the Israeli government to the Palestinian people. Shut up and take the Gaza.
Violence…wrong
non violence “theatrical”
bunch of crooks backed by the state… If they get their Israel Project completed in the next fifty years, What will the next swindle be? Notice all the American Jewish representatives for Israel in the video that lay ‘claim’ to their land, which has been owned by Palestinians for centuries.
Just like the article itself, the video opens with the stone throwers; only after 5 minutes do we see the Israeli army clubbing peaceful demonstrators.
“Poor Israel soldiers are facing Palestinians monsters who are throwing dangerous stones on them, what do you want to do in such situation? we are victims, the Arab terrorists want to destroy us!”
In hasbara world, one can “claim” to have a brain hemmorhage but that’s never verifiable unless it happened to an IDF soldier. Palestinians can only “claim” suffering that is never “verifiable,” from the Nakba to today’s protests.
When our media pits Israel’s “rights” against Palestinians “claims,” we have “Jewish journalism” in action. The winner in this “debate” is a foregone conclusion.
How theatrical was The Diary Of Anne Frank?
At least Anne was protected for a time at the risk of the Dutch Gentiles who did so; no such
protection for a Palestinian Anne Frank–instead, the USA supports her suffocation:
link to reuters.com
Imagine a movie, or even a UTube clip satirizing the Pals attempts to be treated as equal in some Israeli soda fountain. That so many Jews cannot see this bespeaks a vision
that is really a giant MOTE. It would be merely funny, except that the USA pays the price for this tunnel vision; the USA is going downhill fast because it has been taken over by ZOG. OH, OH, I said it. I kill jews for a living. You all need to look closely at events. I won’t bother you with simple facts, such as i married a jew.
Citizen married a Jewess, he couldn’t possibly be a Jewhater.
And you don’t kill Jews for a living, you hate them as a hobby.
Actually, WJ, you hate me as your hobby. Whatever makes your day.
Alright, so my perception is that when ignoring starts to fail, partisan opinion will switch to discrediting. First we’ve had the tourists, now we have the theater. It doesn’t require PR people who are paid to do this, but it often helps if you want quality.
I thought that it was a well-written article.
Didn’t you Phil?
Of course you thought it was a well written article.
An article that reduces Palestinian non-violent resistance to “theatrics” is somehow a good article to you.
Palestinians are non-violently resisting the theft of their land and the NYT calls it a “spectacle.”
Your obnoxiousness has hit a whole new level.
This is a thread about the video next to the article.
Terming the demonstrations as “theatrical” is indeed shameful. Questioning the demonstrations’ nonviolence is accurate and responsible journalism. Questioning the questioning is much more questionable.
Imagine if the Selma march had included stone throwing. (Obviously nonviolence is not as effective a tactic in the West Bank without t.v. coverage as you have pointed out. But that does not make throwing stones a nonviolent tactic. A nonlethal tactic is not a nonviolent tactic.)
Are you joking?
First of all, I’ve been to these demonstrations before, rocks are rarely ever thrown, and when they are thrown, they tend to be thrown after the official demonstration is over.
Second of all, how can you seriously classify throwing rocks at tanks, armored troops in jeeps, and at the security wall itself as a violent provocation?
If anything the rock throwing is a symbolic act.
These Palestinians are having their land stolen as we speak, are being seperated from their farm land (sometimes having their families split by the wall), are forced to live under apartheid, and are being killed with live ammunition, yet you actually criticize them for having the gall to throw a rock at a tank…
WJ,
the label ‘nonviolent’ is considered a precious asset in the fight for legitimation. If you use a hard edged definition then as soon as the first stone is thrown, the demonstration is no longer nonviolent. Point scored. Therefore it is violent. I’d say more, because it is violent it falls in the same category as violent resistance and in the same category as shooting rockets at Sderot. Therefore, if the IDF violently attack the demonstration long enough till a stone is thrown, they’ve ‘ve proven the demonstrations are about violence. And however hard you try as demonstrators, you strangely never succeed to get out of that category.
In Iran the demonstrations were classified differently. Whether the demonstrations throw a stone or not is beside the question. Nobody even considers the question because the focus is on the reasons for the demonstrations.
Whether the demonstrations actually turned into violent riots didn’t matter.
So instead of the reason for the demonstration we now have already 3 other possible issues we can have serious discussions about. The people who are just there as tourists, the people who are just there making theater, and the rock throwing. I’d throw in social pressure causing some people to go while they’d rather watch television, the problems in the private lives of the leading figures, and maybe check if some of them have a job in an EC funded project too.
I think if you use a proximity type categorisation, a nonviolent demonstration comes closest, much closer than riots.
Sorry about replies being nested too deeply.
I’ve read that the demonstrations in Bi’lin have resulted in 100 wounded IDF soldiers. That number underscores the violence of the demonstrations. I think that is a distortion.
Throwing rocks at a wall or at a tank is a symbolic act. Throwing rocks at civilians is a violent act.
Throwing rocks at a soldier is a violent act. If that act comes after the throwing of tear gas, it is one thing. If that act comes after the shooting of bullets it is another thing.
Provocation is a different category which the writer, Gilinsky, did not use, nor did I.
A few days before MLK was killed he led a march in Memphis. At the back of his march youths broke windows of stores and looted. This stained his march. He did not engage in violence, but the march was associated with the breaking of windows which is a violent act.
I am not saying that the throwing of stones means that the movement as a whole is violent. But they do stain the protests with violence.
Shooting rockets at Sderot is in a different category and if we cannot differentiate between the throwing of rocks at soldiers and the launching of rockets into a civilian neighborhood, then there really is little need for a discussion, because we are on different pages and logic will not help us. Discussion is only worthy if we are attempting to use logic to reach some mutual conclusion.
The civil rights movement of America was raised by Phil Weiss as the standard by which we should judge the appropriateness of the label of “theatricality”. It is natural that I would also use the civil rights movement of America to judge the appropriateness of the label of nonviolence. Using that standard: the throwing of stones at human beings, even police or soldiers, does in fact remove the protest from that pristine level of nonviolence.
Nonetheless WJ you ignore the fact that stone throwing, particularly at the official Bilin protests is a rarity.
You also ignore the fact that stone throwing tends to happen AFTER the tear gas, rubber coated bullets, and live ammunition are fired at the demonstrators.
And what civilians are the Palestinians throwing rocks at? The Israeli soldiers enforcing the land grab tend to hide behind the wall and fire rounds at the Palestinians from little openings in the wall designed specifically for that purpose, or from the cover of armored military jeeps and sometimes tanks.
I’m sorry but some Palestinian youth throwing rocks at these demonstrations is hardly violent in nature. These Palestinians aren’t throwing rocks at Israeli civilians, they’re throwing rocks at Israeli military vehicles or at the wall itself.
If you somehow believe that really constitutes a threat to the Israeli occupation forces you are completely deluded.
In any case, most of these Palestinian demonstrations don’t consist of rock throwing, which is something the video tried to smear upon the entire demonstration. Normally, after the official demonstration has been dispersed by Israeli violent actions, do some youth remain behind and throw rocks at the Israeli border patrol firing at them.
That was hilarious! WJ, I am ROTFL! “Stained with violence”? Are you kidding? Zionism endorses violence, and used it as a primary tactic whether they were dealing with the inhabitants or the British.
For you to talk about “Stained with violence” is disgusting.
link to lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com
“Stained with violence”. What a crock. Last month during the Ashura demonstrations in Tehran there were dozens of videos showing stone throwing, fighting with the police, and burning their stations and motor cycles. We in the West cheered them on. I did not hear a single complaint about these tactics though the police were criticized for using live ammo.
In fact that was a proper response to those demonstrations. Now we have WJ crying crocodile tears over the Palestinians “lack of discipline” in the face of much worse oppression than the Iranians experience.
This reminds me of a very similar situation that I witnessed during the anti-Vietnam War days. I was first involved in a public demonstration against the war in 1965. From then to 1970 or so, the prowar forces continuously claimed to support our cause at some vague level, but would go on and on criticizing the tactics. In the beginning these demonstrations were modeled on the non-violence pioneered by King but after the police started using tear gas and billy clubs, stone throwing became more common. Didn’t make one bit of difference to these critics — it was always we sympathize with you but …[WJ can fill this in]. Anyway it was a sure fire way to identify our political enemies.
The video that Phil Weiss linked to is not at Bilin and it consists almost entirely of stone throwing. Your, James Bradley’s, experience not withstanding, it is the video that Phil Weiss linked to that I am relating to.
To call stone throwing nonviolent is a misuse of language. It may be a “small thing” as the Palestinian leader of the protests claims on the tape, but it is not nonviolent.
Maybe the Palestinians deserve one’s support, but to call it nonviolent is a lie. Maybe nonviolence is over rated, but to call it nonviolent is a lie. Certainly the Zionists used violence, but to call these protests nonviolent is a lie.
My understanding of nonviolence views it as a combination of a moral stand and a tactic. Morally the nonviolent protester is not willing to lose their humanity by an act of anger, but instead chooses nonviolence. One can say that the throwing of stones as a “small thing” is certainly less of a loss of humanity than more lethal forms of violence.
Tactics is a different question. Tactics involve who one wishes to convince with the pictures that will emerge from the conflict. If the protesters are throwing stones- they have chosen their tactic and to label their tactic as violent is appropriate to the tactic that they have chosen.
I’m sorry but throwing stones at tanks, jeeps, walls, and heavily armored Israeli soldiers that are far away from the rocks hardly constitutes as violence.
Tactics involve who one wishes to convince with the pictures that will emerge from the conflict.
True, but if your a Palestinian it doesn’t really matter.
You resist violently, you lose your home and your land.
You resist non-violently, you lose your home and your land.
You choose to stand by and do nothing, you lose your home and your land.
The Palestinians have been non-violently protesting the occupation of their land for decades with sit ins, boycotts, refusal to pay taxes, demonstrations and more, but the media chose not to focus on Palestinian resistance to the Israeli occupation until it became finally became violent after the first intifada.
On top of that, when the media does focus on Palestinian non violent resistance it often focus’s on Palestinian youths pathetically throwing stones at tanks (or Palestinians throwing back tear gas canisters at the IDF) so that people like you can justify Israel’s harsh measuress against “non-violent” Palestinian protests.
The Palestinians could be Pacifist Buddhist Monks and the media would still frame them as the aggressors and deserving of the brutality the IDF dishes out to them daily.
NYT coverage of lunch counter sit-ins was phony in the first place. For the NYT the southern civil rights movement begins and ends with Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner.
I have done no research into the NYT’s coverage of the civil rights movement before or after Schwerner and Goodman. On what basis do you consider their coverage phony before or after Schwerner and Goodman?
Munro, that statement is false. The NYT was responsible for publicizing many of the main events of the civil rights movement These include the Emmet Till lynching and the Montgomery bus boycott. The fact that they had these stories on their front page guaranteed national coverage.
The editorializing on the video is appalling, but on the other hand, the video actually shows footage of an unarmed protester being killed by Israeli soldiers and an unarmed old man being punched in the face by a teenaged Israeli soldier. Never thought I’d see the day.
And maybe some people, instead of listening to the mindless drone of the voiceover, will actually pay attention to what their eyes are showing them.
link to
The Israeli National Motto should be: “Who are you going to believe, Israel or your lying eyes?”
Protests by definition are supposed to be theatrical. The next logical step is the “Street Theater” one often sees at political demonstrations.
The civil rights demonstrations in the US South were mainly directed at persuading whites, especially northerners, to side with the blacks. This wasn’t too hard since the northerners had no direct interest in the outcome; Southern integration cost them nothing.
By contrast, Israelis feel very strongly that the Wall brought peace and saved the lives of themselves or somebody they know. Israelis also feel that strengthening Hamas or Fatah can only hurt them. So the anti-wall protesters have a very long road to hoe.
Blacks in the US had a history and reputation of being mostly passive and non-destructive, although they were seen by many as weak in the face of temptation. By contrast, Arabs in the Israeli experience have a history and reputation of aggression, lethality, and terrorism. So the basis for sympathy isn’t really there.
“Blacks in the US had a history and reputation of being mostly passive and non-destructive, although they were seen by many as weak in the face of temptation. By contrast, Arabs in the Israeli experience have a history and reputation of aggression, lethality, and terrorism. So the basis for sympathy isn’t really there”
That one presses the “report abuse” button for me, and I would hope many others.
And what a perfect encapsulation of the essential racism of Zionist-supporters.
Or do you want to tell us that the “passivity” of Afro-Americans and the “violence” of Arabs are racial facts?
Cause you should hear the racial facts about the Jews! And I think we can consider tham within the parameters of the discussion from now on. Won’t you like that, AreaMan?
“Blacks in the US had a history and reputation of being mostly passive and non-destructive, although they were seen by many as weak in the face of temptation. By contrast, Arabs in the Israeli experience have a history and reputation of aggression, lethality, and terrorism.”
Arrogant, big nosed Jews, passive Blacks and violent Arabs.
You sure you want the conversation develop along those lines, AreaMan?
Not sure if ‘Report Abuse’ gets through to Phil or Adam. Email them, because they might want you to explain.
Surely the truly theatrical part would be when the IDF ensures such protests turn violent by sending in undercover Israeli Arab troops to throw stones at the army when the Palestinians fail to oblige?
Riyad Muhammad Yassin Barnat, a 28-year-old construction worker and farmer, father of four, and ‘Alian Ibrahim Ahmad Abu Rahmeh, a 29-year-old school-bus driver, father of two, have been detained by the Israeli army following a peaceful demonstration in their West Bank village of Bil’in on 28 April 2005.
The demonstration was organized by Bil’in villagers and Israeli peace activists to protest at the ongoing construction of the fence/wall, which the Israeli army is building through the West Bank, in violation of international law. The fence/wall cuts the village off from much of its agricultural land, depriving the farmers of their source of livelihood.
Some 500 Palestinian villagers and around 200 Israeli peace activists participated in the demonstration. They informed the Israeli troops present at the scene, through loudspeakers and in Hebrew, that the march was strictly peaceful. But as the demonstrators gathered on the outskirts of the village and began marching in the direction of the fence/wall, Israeli forces shot tear gas at them, pushed and shoved some of them, and fired rock salt projectiles, injuring several of the demonstrators.
Several masked mistaravim (a Hebrew term meaning ‘those who pretend to be Arabs’), undercover agents belonging to the Israeli Prison Service started to behave aggressively and threw stones at the soldiers. When the Palestinian villagers called on them to stop using violence and to leave the demonstration, they revealed their identity, pulled out their weapons, and arrested two Palestinian and four Israeli demonstrators.
The four Israelis were subsequently released and the Israeli army commander promised that Riyad and ‘Alian would be released as soon as the demonstration ended. However, they instead took them to a police station in the nearby Israeli settlement of Pisgat Ze’ev and later transferred them to the detention centre at ‘Ofer military base. They continue to be detained there and are accused of assaulting members of the security forces. To date the army has provided no evidence to substantiate these allegations.
On 19 May 2005, three weeks after their arrest, the military judge ordered the release on bail of Riyad Muhammad Yassin Barnat and ‘Alian Ibrahim Ahmad Abu Rahmeh, but as the military prosecution announced its intention to appeal the judge’s decision, they remain in detention.
According to the information available to Amnesty International, including video footage of the demonstration and testimonies of Israeli and Palestinians peace activists present at the demonstration, the demonstrators did not use violence against the Israeli forces, whereas Israeli members of the security forces did use unwarranted force against the demonstrators.
Amnesty International believes that Riyad Muhammad Yassin Barnat and ‘Alian Ibrahim Ahmad Abu Rahmeh are being detained to discourage others from organizing and participating in peaceful demonstrations. It considers them to be prisoners of conscience and calls for their immediate and unconditional release.
Amnesty International press release.
20/05/05
Mistaravim are an elite group who infiltrate Palestinian towns in disguise, and frequently act as agents-provocateurs. However, they need not be Israeli Arabs, who are not allowed to serve in the IDF, but Druse, who are. This may be the reason that these people are officially attached to the Israeli Prison Service. They would easily be recognised as strangers by local villagers.
But the mistaravim stone throwing proves that stone throwing is only a minor nuisance to heavily-armoured Israeli police, and hardly constitutes ‘violent protest’.
Note that the report is dated 5 years ago, in the spring of 2005, so that these weekly demonstrations in Bil’in have been occurring for 5 years, with no positive results for the villagers, who have not regained any land yet.
The thing that is worrying the Israeli occupiers is that such demonstrations are spreading to other villages, and getting reported more widely
Tear Gas is hardly an innocuous substance to be used randomly against peaceful demonstrators.
link to covertaction.org
I have interpolated [dates] based on inference from the undated original document. This was occurring 20 years ago.
But not to worry. Israeli tear gas grenades are now manufactured in Israel, by Israeli companies, presumably under lucrative licenses from the original US suppliers.
Nor are ‘Rubber Bullets’ innocuous demonstration dispersers.
from Bt’Selem:
Thanks, Diane Mason, for this information. Israel has every incentive to use provocateurs to discredit the growing nonviolent movement on the occupied West Bank.
Hey, uppity is uppity, yes?
The Times is disgraceful. Advocacy for Israeli violence against demonstrators demands action. Make the Times rely on all of its revenues from Zionists.
That’s a little difficult. The NYT survives, barely, on its reducing advertising revenues. The company’s chairman is Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr., whose family has controlled the paper since 1896.
Of course, he isn’t overtly an Israel sympathiser, and nor are his Trust board members; Daniel H. Cohen, James M. Cohen, Lynn G. Dolnick, Susan W. Dryfoos, Michael Golden, Eric M. A. Lax, Arthur O. Sulzberger, Jr. and Cathy J. Sulzberger.
As Gilinsky himself admits, if there were not some violence, the media would not bother to report on the demonstrations. The Palestinians are committed not to use lethal violence (not a single shot has been fired; not a single Israeli has been killed), but they’re not stupid enough to make the demonstrations so quiet that no one will cover them.
In other words, they have struck a balance between nonviolence and visibility. Any proposals for alternative approaches that will guarantee a similarly wide coverage will be appreciated.
Yes, a whole village (Nabi Saleh) who marched out and sat down to protest a local settler village took over over their local spring, the only local source of water for the village.
But even so, there was a lot of violence.
You can see more at Adam Horowitz’s post at:link to mondoweiss.net
link to indymedia.org.il
When violence is initiated by Israeli troops or deliberate provocation by mistavarim, then all the Gandhi stuff goes out of the window.
Nothing is correct about your victim when you are totally wrong.
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