Jared Malsin, no stranger to Israel's view of a free and independent press, reports on the Anat Kam scandal for the Huffington Post. He ends with a comment from historian Avner Cohen who puts the episode in a broader context:
Beyond this, what motivated Shin Bet to commit the blunder of imposing a gag order that embarrassingly collapsed under inevitable media pressure?
Avner Cohen told me he thinks one aspect of the motivation was related to "Israeli sensitivity about the Goldstone report," referring to the UN fact-finding mission that accused Israel of war crimes during its offensive on Gaza last year.
He said the underlying context in the Kam/Blau case is concern in the Israeli government about a "crisis of legitimacy" sparked by the allegations in the Goldstone report.
"There is a nervousness in Israel," he said. "There is a sense that what has been tolerated by the world for decades, the occupation, the checkpoints and so on, that there is less and less tolerance for Israel as occupier."
Neither the Goldstone Report nor the Kam affair indicate the lack of Israeli legitimacy, so much as the need to reform.
The over-dramatization of that status is opportunistic.
Neither the quoted report nor the blog post indicate the lack of Israeli legitimacy, so much as the lack of legitimacy of the occupation.
The-over dramatization of other people’s opinions, to make them look extreme while you play the reasonable moderate, is opportunistic.
When you talk about Israel, you say “reform.”
When you talk about Hamas, you say, “military action required.”
You are the opportunist, Witty. And a hypocrite to boot.
It’s all good, Witty. Get some rest.
“Neither the Goldstone Report nor the Kam affair indicate the lack of Israeli legitimacy, so much as the need to reform.”
It sure does. Our courts provide all of the legal protections recognized by civilized people. So, how come an IDF Commander can get the organs of state to round-up all of the incriminating prima facie evidence and mount his defense in the press? After all, we insist on making defendants, like John Demjanjuk, appear in person to enter a plea and answer the charges based upon a lot less credible reports.
So, Witty, when Daniel Ellsberg leaked the Pentagon Papers to Neil Sheehan of the New York Times, that was over-dramatic, and opportunistic?
You are confused about what I am saying Citizen.
I applaud Haaretz for blowing the whistle. I criticize the conclusion that that constitutes illigitimacy.
Both call into question the fundamental principles of a state purportedly based on western, democratic values.
And let’s not forget nor lose sight of the fact that the Kam affair is on one level a matter of a free press, what about the actual content of the documents involved?
Those documents show a military authorized to commit extra-judicial murder.
Richard, do you have any comment on the substance of those documents and the policies that they reflect?
Pineywoodslim… “Those documents show a military authorized to commit extra-judicial murder.”
Hate to be a killjoy here, and I AM NOT defending Israeli assassinations(extra judicial murder, as you very accurately describe it).
But what does it say about the good ol’ USA that our liberal Pres has recently decided he has “the authority to commit/order extra-judicial murder” (of US citizens, no less). Glenn Greenwald has covered this in great detail. (not to mention the recent apparent assassination of a US citizen in Detroit by the FBI).
And what are the odds any American military officers will stand trial for war crimes committed under their watch in Iraq or Afghanistan?
All I think I am asking (assuming I have not confused myself, which is entirely possible) is that if you are going to say “engaging in phenomenon X” delegitimizes Israel, why then does engaging in the same phenomenon X, by the USA, NOT delegitimize the USA? (maybe we are too big to be delegitimized?).
I really am asking for clarification, not criticizing; it may not be important, but it strikes me as important.
If there is one phenomenon that seems to characterize the comments on this web site, it is the assumption that because we (USA) have “better documents”(constitution, bill of rights, etc), that actually means we are better. I am not convinced this is the case. Or maybe I am missing something?
Don,
Excellent question. Don’t expect good answers from the Israel haters on this site.
Based on the “extra-judicial murder authority” announced by Obama and war crimes committed by the US in Iraq, I have absolutely no problem calling into question the fundamental principles of the United States which is purportedly based on western, democratic values.
Next.
“But what does it say about the good ol’ USA that our liberal Pres has recently decided he has “the authority to commit/order extra-judicial murder”
The question that I’ve been asking for years now is “If the Presidents, including Clinton, Bush, & etc., think they have the “constitutional power ” to kidnap, torture, or execute civilians without trial overseas, doesn’t that mean the Constitution says they can do the same thing here in the United States?
Given the fact that the government is a fallible bureaucracy it was inevitable that it would kidnap, torture, and execute some innocent people. So far, the US Courts have refused to provide a remedy in those cases. The government claimed it would be required to compromise its classified sources and methods. That sort of thing invites other states to exercise universal jurisdiction.
It’s all in the eye of the beholder.
Israelis still live with the ghetto mentality, always the victims, always surrounded and always under threat. From that point of view, every little prick of a needle seems like a nuclear Armageddon.
I propose 7,000 hours of psychological therapy for the Israeli collective. You can audit if you want. It might help a little.
RW’s “reform” in Israel is going to be just about as effective as “reform” in the USA – ZERO.
“Both call into question the fundamental principles of a state purportedly based on western, democratic values. ”
They certainly call into question the policies and practices of the current Israeli administration.
Fundamental as in not possible to change, I differ with. I believe that it is possible to change Israeli consciousness as illustrated by the outpouring of support for Oslo, in which a respected and experienced long-term general, Rabin, willingly formed an agreement with his formerly terrorist adversary.
Is it repeatable, given the history since. I don’t know. I know that agitation only confirms the Israeli far right theses, which I profoundly disagree with and desire to see changed.
Reform in the US led to the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Acts, the Clean Air Act, child labor regulation, food and drug administration, etc.
If there is work to do, and your radical perspective gets in the way of you doing the work needed, then that is what has occurred, that you merely found an adept way to get out from your responsibility.
Once you have an awareness, a knowledge, that then defines your responsibility. The “responsibility” to war in resistance, isn’t really that, actually a rejection of the slogan “by any means necessary”, as you are limiting what you are willing to do to only militancy, rather than more persuasive and respectful means.
I’ve been thinking about the revolutionary transition, and the relation to reform.
Both are critical of policies and practices, and periodically then join in the content of criticism.
But, reform is an INVESTMENT in the legitimacy of the state in question. It states in effect, this state is worth preserving, worth improving. My criticism is for the purpose of that, improvement.
In contrast, the revolutionary approach, where water has turned to ice, regards reform as a betrayal, at least suspect.
But, the revolutionary approach is a great gamble, and with others’ lives, as expansionist Zionism is a gamble with others’ lives, and militant Hamas resistance is a gamble with others’ lives. There are RARE circumstances where a revolutionary approach is needed, rare.
I don’t believe that this is one of them. I believe that the jewel of Israel, of Zionism, is a net potential fundamental improvement in the world.
Currently a strong net benefit in the world, potentially an exponentially improved one.
I, like J street, and other reform oriented dissent movements, INVEST in Israel, if not in money, in sympathy, while I/we also want it to change.
Gee, Witty, I remember when you use to pick apart J Street whenever Phil wrote about it. Anybody else remember? Similarly, when Phil wrote favorably about M & W’s The Israel Lobby, you
wrote all you could to discredit him and the book–nobody knows to this day if you ever even read it. You use to quote articles bashing it, themselves written by people who never read it at the time. Same when the Goldstone Report surfaced here. Right now your sticking to reactionary verbiage and theories like “lawfare”
and “illegitimacy.” The better to hold back the tide of latent or blatent anti-semites, always around the corner, lusting to
murder any jew, simply because he or she is a jew. Anyway you look at it, Witty, don’t you think the Palestinians have paid their pound of flesh? Don’t they bleed too? And, what on earth did they ever do to you? Is birth on a land where you’ve been declared not to exist by Grandma Golda Meir, the American-born philosphical beauty, such a crime?
True, the evil French Monarchy turned into the Terror, and then, the Great Terror. Perhaps, as a model, you can tell us
how this turned into the modern French person? Maybe there’s a clue there for what to do regarding Phil’s article, subject of this thread?
Not to be a pedant, but Golda Meir was actually born in Russia. She only grew up here in the US for most of her life until, if I recall, she reached the age of consent or thereabouts.
Israel makes itself look worse with every step it takes to try to keep itself from looking bad. The concept of actually eliminating bad policies doesn’t seem to occur to it. Today, the army surrounded a school and demanded that the children all leave so they could arrest a stone-thrower.
Arabs in Jewish land makes themselves look worse with every step they take to try to force Jews from Jewish Land. The concept of actually eliminating terrorism and incitement doesn’t seem to occur to them. Today, the stone throwers had to be arrested at school because they were hurling rocks and projectiles at innocent Jews just because they are Jewish
“Today, the stone throwers had to be arrested at school because they were hurling rocks and projectiles at innocent armed to the teeth Jews just because they are Jewish occupiers who stole their lands, ethnic cleansed them and subjected them to an implacable inhumane occupation!
“The concept of actually eliminating terrorism and incitement doesn’t seem to occur to them.
It’s the occupation that incites terrororism, though I am suprised you have a problem with terrorism, given that it was used to create Israel.
adam, rumor has it some of the leaked documents were plans for cast lead. silverstein:
this could blow open goldstone or the falsehood that “Yasser Arafat planned the intifada”
this could be israel’s pandora’s box
LOL i love me a good conspiracy…..
Both compact disks have vanished. They contained over 2000 documents, many originals. Their content covers IDF policy in the OTs. Kam said she collected them and took the disks home and her motive was to make the public aware of what the IDF did there.
link to haaretz.com
That’s what happens in a state that places greater significance on ethnicity (and ideological loyalty) than on professionalism. You end up with sloppy Shin Bet work, sloppy army staff and sloppy army reporters. This sloppiness is also indicative of arrogance that which is at the heart of such moral and professional bankruptcy.
The missing 18 minutes of tape.
When you have a criminal government, it conducts coverups of its crimes by criminal means. You can bet that any documents returned by Blau would also be disappeared.
What Israel doesn’t see is that these actions only condemn it in the eyes of the world. Who destroys incriminating evidence? A criminal.
Blau apparently has a copy of the documents, which the Israeli PTB want him to bring back to Israel–he’s apparently in England. Kam gave up any claim of journalistic source immunity; they are trying to convince Blau
to just come home–without disclosing the contents of the documents to the foreign press; if he does, so Israel will just give him and her a pat on the wrist for being so misguided and “ideological.” Rather then trying them both for treason. They never found the files on her computer; she says she has no clue what happened to those.
link to haaretz.com
If Daniel Ellsberg and the NYT somehow got a copy of those documents today–do you think either would print them?
Is that a rhetorical question? I wish it was not.
Remember when Dick Chaney met in secret with the big boys of
oil to discuss and plan US energy policy? And when it became obvious the Bush Jr regime lied through their teeth to get us into war? And remember the Gaza Turkey Shoot? Where was the old gray lady?
What information can’t be suppressed under the rational of “security issue?”
Nixon got a temporary injunction based on that argument. But the Pentagon Papers were subsequently published. It’s not just what happened to Israel, but what happened to the USA?
This is another way in which our presidency of CHANGE has only given us more of the same secrecy.
Blau would be an idiot to believe any promises that get him to Israel. Mordechai Vanunu’s solitary cell is waiting for him. As I’ve said before, he ought to viralize any documents he does actually have.
As usual more incitement against Israel from Israel haters.
Why don’t you worry about the legitimacy of the US, and let Israelis worry about the legitimacy of Israel?
By the what would you say about a Zionist in the US copying thousands of top secret documents to make sure the US does not do anything illegal in Afghanistan or Iraq? And then running away with them to Israel?
You would of course be shouting at Israel and condemning the person as a traitor. You are just Israel haters.
Well, supporting a religious state creates a legitimacy problem for the US.
The less we help the growing fascist trends in Israel,
the more legitimate we will remain.
(I don’t hate Israel, I just want to stop funding them.)
Chu,
That is all well and good. You have every right not to want to fund Israel. But what are you doing on this site instead of convincing your congress and president? You know, you are the superpower, we are the small country.
The problem Chu, is that instead of blaming all your fellow compatriots for funding Israel or your inability to convince them, some people start blaming AIPAC and indirectly the Jews in America. That is what many on this site do and I find despicable.
AIPAC should be pursued by the DOJ to make it register as the agent of a foreign government, Israel. The DOJ now has an official request in hand asking it to do so. I urge all compatriots to pester our president and congress to join in this request. And I urge you all to
do the same regarding the draining of our resources and reputation
by endless and stringless blank welfare checks to Israel, the state that tried to sink the USS Liberty. And is still metaphorically doing so, so blind is it to its own best long term interests.
I think that the 2 nations should have a clean break from one another moving forward. We have helped Israeli governments for decades, and the occupation, no matter what you think of it, is a detriment to both nations.
Fair enough, but why are you posting all this on a site aimed at inciting against Israel? There are Republican and Democratic sites with 10,000 times the numbers of readers. Why are you wasting your time here?
And what are you doing on this site, then? We already know you are a hypocrite, because you think that US citizens can’t criticize Israel without cleaning their own house first, but yet you constantly carp on the US’s failings instead of doing anything to fix your own home. Why are you wasting YOUR time here. You aren’t convincing anyone here of anything other than your callousness and hypocrisy.
The people on this site have a greater amount of intelligence regarding the reality of the conflict, than other most other sites.
Do you have any suggestions for other blogs?
Eee, why would an American patriot run away with the documents to Israel? Did Daniel Ellsberg run away to Israel? Nixon tried to prevent
the publication of the Pentagon Papers. He failed. Don’t you think Ellsberg did a good thing for the USA by making the American public more aware of what their own government had been doing overseas
in their name? Ellsberg ultimately received many kudos in the USA.
The USA has done many despicable things in both Afghanistan and Iraq;
is still doing so–we nee more Daniel Ellsbergs, not less. So does Israel.
Citizen,
He would run away because unlike you, most Americans would view him as a traitor. You can’t claim thousands of documents are relevant to show wrongdoing. That is a fishing expedition. It would allow anyone to steal documents and claim that he was doing it for the good of America because maybe in one of them there is evidence of wrong doing. That is a BS excuse. But of course, in the case of Israel you condone it. I am tired of telling you why.
Most Americans viewed Daniel Ellsberg as a hero, and do so to this day, an icon of free speech in an open society. Fishing expedition?
The Pentagon Papers examined United States policy and internal planning in Southeast Asia from the close of the Second World War to 1968. The papers were published internally in 1969, and consisted of a large assortment of original documents, accompanied by thousands of pages of analysis written by State Department officials. The documents contained a great deal of information which had not been released to the American public, including revelations that the United States had been more deeply involved in Southeast Asia than most citizens realized.
I am tired of you defending suppression of free speech, the key
to every tyrannical regime and state in modern history.
Citizen,
The documents Kam stole involve day to day operations that put the lives of soldiers in danger. She did not steal one or two documents. She copied thousands. She was not in a think tank. Her documents related to day to day operations, 99% of them legal. Imagine that General McCarthy’s secretary would leak the plans of attack of the US in Afghanistan just in case 1 out of 1000 is illegal. She would be a traitor. But again, Kam is in Israel so your irrational hate and bias show.
She copied thousands because her idiot of a general liked to see his top secret documents on plain paper instead of on a computer screen.
link to richardsilverstein.com
…..
…involve day to day operations that put the lives of soldiers in danger.
And, of course, you “know” this without knowing what is actually in the documents. But it sounds good to claim that disclosing IDF war crimes would put soldiers lives in danger, so you swallow that propaganda whole.
“She didn’t steal one document, she stole 1,000s.”
So, if that’s your standard, then you agree that Jonathan Pollard should remain in jail for life?
And do you know the opposite? Do you know that the documents did not contain information that put in danger soldiers? Or do you just believe it because of your irrational hatred of Israel?
Yes, I believe the IDF over a traitor. If new information is published, I may change my mind.
“So, if that’s your standard, then you agree that Jonathan Pollard should remain in jail for life?”
It is solely for the US to decide if he should be pardoned. From an American point of view, he should stay in jail for life. Since he was working for Israel, it is at least our duty to ask for his release.
So you admit that you made a statement in ignorance of the facts, but simply parroted what the IDF spokesperson said. And you’ve already charged and convicted Kamm and Blau without knowing the truth. Guilty until proven innocent. A fine moral stand you’ve got there. Maybe you aren’t capable of fixing your own country.
Tree,
I believe the IDF because what they say makes sense. I was in the IDF. I know what kind of documents go through the office of “Pikud Merkaz”. Furthermore, I know for a fact that Haaretz used only 2-3 documents in the end. So what were the rest for?
You on the other hand are trying to argue, against all those facts that Kam was right in stealing thousands of documents. Why, because you are an irrational Israel hater. You don’t care about the facts, only about inciting against Israel.
The final word will be the court’s. If they exonerate Kam, I will accept that judgement and admit I was wrong. You on the other hand, if Kam is proven guilty, will decry the Israeli justice system and still insist you were right. There is just no pleasing you. You will twist and massage any argument to meet your aim which is to incite against Israel.
eee,
You constantly jump to conclusions about what other people think or would say. You don’t know me, or what I would do or say and yet you constantly insist that you can mind-read everyone here. You can’t and your attempts are silly and irritating. You don’t listen because you think you already know things you have no way of knowing. Maybe you should give that attitude up.
Personally, I don’t automatically believe the IDF because I’ve seen or read too many cases where they have out and out lied and been caught at it, and then changed their story. But its possible that occasionally the truth and IDF statements intersect. Stranger things have happened. You have assumed that you know the truth in this case when you have next to no information. Its the same thing that you do here.
Tree,
Will you accept the decision of the Israeli courts?
Why should he, eee? It’s not like the Israeli military or government ever listens to them when they do err on the side of human rights.
I will wait and see what the evidence shows, rather than jumping to conclusions as you have.
I don’t think it is incumbent upon me to agree with every court decision that is made. I don’t do that for US court decisions, and I don’t see any reason that I need to react differently to Israeli court decisions.
Do you accept the ICC court ruling as to the illegality of the Separation Wall that snakes through the West Bank? Do you accept the Israeli Supreme Court rulings on the Wall? Do you accept the Israeli Supreme Court rulings on the limited circumstances under which “targeted assasinations” may take place? You know, the ISC rulings that the IDF violated, according to their own documents?
You have not jumped to conclusions? Have you no shame?
You have already started inciting against Israel based on conclusions you have reached about the Kam case.
You have already started to incite against Israel based on Goldstone even though the report itself clearly states that the presumption of innocence is paramount and that its evidence is not one that would be accepted by a criminal court?
Just admit it. You would use any excuse to incite against Israel because you irrationally hate Israel.
You haven’t answered my questions. And my opinion of Israel has been formed through personal experience and extensive reading, including numerous Israeli sources. I haven’t reached any conclusions about the Kamm case, other than the one I can reach, because it was admitted in the leaked documents- the IDF disobeyed Israel Supreme Court rulings.
Please answer my questions. Do YOU accept the Israeli Supreme Court rulings , especially the one that the IDF violated? Do you believe that the IDF officials involved should be prosecuted for violating the ISC orders?
Pollard stole between an estimated 80.000 to one million documents – giving them all to Israel for free and selling the most sensitive documents to China.
Some analysts reckon one of the reasons why USA bows to Israel is because Israel knows all our military secrets and covertly blackmails us with the release of these stolen secrets.
LOL sure Taxi, i’d love to see some proof of this lie. Pollard was a traitor and deserves to be imprisoned for the rest of his life. But he didn’t sell shit to China and 1 million documents is laughable.
you are laughable.
ARRIVAL OF TROLL, END OF RATIONAL DISCOURSE
The Kam affair proves just how much stronger the free press in Israel is than the Shin-Bet. Yes, the Shin-Bet made a mistake by insisting on the gag order. But the free press took care of that. That is why Israel is such a successful country. We have a free press and we learn from our mistakes. Of course, Israel haters will want to spin this some other way. But the facts are there to see for any reasonable person who is not an irrational hater.
The story has not ended; we will watch what Israel does with its own mini-version of the Pentagon Papers. If the handling of the Goldstone Report is any advance indicator, it does not look promising.
Actually, the MSM in Israel didn’t cover this at all in the beginning. It was because of coverage on blogs and list-servs in Israel AND the US that that the gag-order eventually became a joke. If the “free press” in Israel was so strong, then the documents themselves would have been made public by numerous investigative reporters.
The MSM in Israel worked to remove the gag order. That is also what the NY Times did in the case of the Pentagon Papers.
Was any blog censored in Israel? Was ANY foreign media site? Israelis could freely read anything on the internet. Compare that to what non-democratic countries would do. Yet you incite against Israel. Yes, that makes you irrational Israel haters.
Oh, so now you are forced to compare Israel with non-democratic countries. You’re doing great! Criticism is only considered “incitement” by people who can’t handle criticism and seek to suppress it, which is just what you are doing here.
Tree,
You are saying Israel’s democracy is going down the tubes based on this case. I showed that this is just false. How else would you show that Israel is a democracy without comparing it to countries that are not democracies? You have every right to criticize, but you are inciting, not criticizing. And what is really strange, is why would an American spend so much time criticizing Israel when there are so many problems in the US to solve? In my opinion you are an irrational Israel hater.
You haven’t SHOWN anything. You’ve just repeated the same tired talking points over and over again. I say that Israel’s democracy has always been limited and bears more resemblance to an ethnocracy than a true democracy. This case is simply a small example of that.
Of course to you I have shown nothing. There is no pleasing you with any rational argument as you are an irrational Israel hater. What is tired by showing that Israel clearly acts in a democratic manner in the case of freedom of press?
How can a case in which both defendants are a part of the “Ashkenazi Elite” prove that Israel is an ethnocracy? It proves exactly the opposite! The Israeli justice system will go after anybody, no matter his ethnicity. Again, you will twist any argument just so you can incite against Israel.
eee.
Repeating things over and over again does not constitute proof. And you are mind-reading again. You jump to conclusions without facts, and claim criticism is “incitement”. Both actions of yours make you a poor defender of democracy.
The few documents that were made public show that the IDF flaunted Israeli Supreme Court rulings and executed Palestinians without charge or trial or even concern for non-targeted innocent individuals that were also killed in those IDF killings. If you think that shows what a great democracy Israel is, then you are sorely mistaken. It shows that Palestinian lives are considered unimportant and not worthy of even the basic human right to life as far as the IDF is concerned. If you want to to be proud of that, I can’t stop you. But I can disagree, and I do.
Tree,
You are changing the subject. The fact of the matter is that there was no problem whatsoever for Ha’aretz to publish the documents showing that the Israeli supreme court was ignored. And I think it is good that Ha’aretz did so. So yes, the fact that Ha’aretz had no problem publishing the documents, shows that Israel is a strong democracy.
The question we are discussing, is why Kam gave the press thousands of documents instead of just the 2-3 they used.
That is a dangerous precedent as anyone could steal thousands of documents and claim they were doing it because maybe one or two showed some illegal action.
You know, it would be interesting to see what happens if an American soldier steals thousands of documents from the office of a general in Afghanistan and leaks them to the press because one or two may indicate coverups. You are an hypocrite and an irrational Israel hater.
Accusing people of changing the subject while you constantly change the subject to every human rights crisis on the planet except the ones you personally are responsible for, and then laying on the name-calling thick.
This has been an insightful exploration into Israeli culture, actually.
what do you expect from a coward, who served in a coward-infested army?
this guy has been raised to feel like a victim, while living on top of a virtually defenseless population whom he colonizes and subjugates.
this same coward, wants to de-militarize Palestine so his coward army can butcher even more Palestinians. apparently a ratio of 100 to 1, and mostly civilian deaths, and mostly civilian infrastructure destroyed is not enough for this murderer
Mr. The Jews corrupted Congress,
Unless you haven’t noticed, it is the US which is the world superpower. You are a coward because instead of monitoring your troops to make sure they don’t gut pregnant women or shoot civilian buses, you incite against Israel.
You are a coward because you are doing nothing to reverse the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo that you forced on Mexico. Was that treaty more “just” than the UN Partition resolution?
link to en.wikipedia.org
Why don’t you first start by reversing CLEAR historical injustices that YOUR country did?
You know why? Because you are an irrational Israel hater and a coward.
You make wild-eyed comments about what you think I will say or do, and you accuse me of changing the subject?
I am discussing the case as a whole. All reports in Israel that deal with the military or that over-broad rubric, “security” have to go through military censorship. This is not an indication of a healthy “free press” in a country. I would hope that if an American soldier in Afghanistan WOULD leak documents to the press if some of them indicated cover-ups. I don’t see anything wrong with it being thousands of documents, and I wouldn’t assume that what was in those documents were not related to a cover-up just because the army said so. That would be exceedingly gullible of me. Any organization engaged in a cover-up has already proved itself capable of lying.
Tree,
Israel’s censors ONLY censor reports that can put the life of soldiers in imminent danger. That is why what Ha’aretz published was NOT censored.
You are taking an extreme position that very few Americans would take. Since it has already been proved that the US had several coverups in Afghanistan, you are saying that it is ok to leak any classified document in Afghanistan to the press. That will certainly put the lives of American soldiers in danger.
Well, eee, considering you’ve characterized Americans as avid supporters of gutting pregnant women on a lark, I dare say you telling tree that he’s not like his fellow Americans (and you’re assuming that he is American, as it’s been pointed out this blog is more than just American) is actually a strange sort of backhanded compliment.
tree: Any organization engaged in a cover-up has already proved itself capable of lying.
Sure, but why aren’t you saying that about TEXAS? I’ll tell you why – because you are a BASHER ;-)
Ceterum autem censeo, Carthaginem esse delendam!
Shmuel,
Thank you for comparing me to Cato the Elder.
Do you really believe that the American public would support stealing thousands of classified army documents in Afghanistan just because the army there has proved to have several coverups?
Isn’t taking this extreme position regarding Israel incitement?
What about taking the extreme position that ethnic cleansing is morally justified, eee? Physician, heal thyself.
Truth be known, these days I’m more of a DASHER, and sometimes a GNASHER, but I used to be a HASH-er. ;-)
I’d quote something in Latin, but I learned all of my Latin from the Three Stooges .
Iway ouldn’tshay eedfay ethay olltray. Iway owknay.
funny BK commercial…
link to eaazi.blogspot.com
LOL. It’s only funny because it’s true. :P
Great find Chu.
Boy do we all here need mega comic relief today or what?!
If you get down to the basics of this “legitimacy” argument you have to ask – who brought this up in the first place? You have to say it came from the Zionist contingency, why? There were not a number of people out here saying Israel was illegitimate, and there is some thing to be said for the “twist” value of taking thing tack. However, if you go deeper, I think it comes from the underlying fact that the Israelis KNOW that what is occurring is absolutely incorrect and unacceptable – and does not speak of a state normally functioning, and there is no excuse for it. It might be used as a defense, but I think it is derived from a deep sense of shame and suppressed knowledge that this cannot continue – hence the “shrewd” defense of “you are trying to say we are illegitimate!”
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