I zapped a hijacker

I failed to mention the other day that I had banned a voluble commenter, though he did not violate our rules re obscenity, hate speech. No, what he was doing was hasbara thread-hijacking: He would jump on a post with several comments that had nothing to do with the post but were pure hasbara. Trying to hijack the thread and use our readership for his pro-Israel forum. Yes I know, some folks on my side sometimes do the same, but generally it’s after the comments have moved along. This felt like abuse, a blight on the discussion, and Adam and I are paying for the microphone. To be clear: I don’t mind hasbara folks; I welcome them. I welcome their efforts to justify Israel’s actions, I welcome the whetstone of their ideas. I recognize that my ideas will go nowhere if I’m not engaged at some level with that community. But I’m not down with the hijackers. Thanks to Annie.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.
Posted in Beyondoweiss, Israel Lobby, Israel/Palestine

{ 99 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. DavidSiden says:

    Philip Weiss you banned that person, then you cry wolf when Israel bars Chomsky.
    If that aint hypocrisy i dont know what is.

    • Phil be mindful.
      The Shamir you zapped is back with a different name and a different account. He goes now by the name DavidSeden. Nothing has changed. The same thread jacking technique.

    • Mooser says:

      “If that aint hypocrisy i dont know what is.”

      Right you are! Any understanding of hypocrisy is fatal to a Zionist.

    • MarkF says:

      I think the comparison is off, in my opinion of course. Israel barred Chomsky from entering the West Bank to speak at a university. The university pays to have the speaker, they can chose who they want to host. Phil pays to maintain this site, so he can chose who can post.

      Phil’s criticism deals with the commenter putting up things that have nothing to do with the post.

      You have the freedom to start your own blog and to post whatever you want. I would hope people who comment on your blog would respond to the substance of your posts and not put things on there that had nothing to do with the topic you wish to discuss. But then again, you would have the freedom to do as you wish with your blog.

      • Sumud says:

        It was more than just off-topic comments MarkF – the entity known as Shamir was posting faster than any single human can type. Check out his timestamps, 40 comments in less than an hour, some of them long:

        link to mondoweiss.net

    • Chaos4700 says:

      When Phil Weiss bans a commenter from Drudge Report or Jihad Watch, then maybe your comment vis-a-vis Israel banning Chomsky from Palestine might make sense.

  2. marc b. says:

    so chomsky was going to israel/WB to hijack the national thread and exploit the citizens of Israel for the purpose of criticizing Zionism?

    if that ain’t horse bleep i don’t know what is.

  3. DavidSiden says:

    thankgodimatheist your totally wrong again.
    I’m not Shamir or anyone else.
    Anyone that doesn’t demonize Israel you want off this site.

    • Mooser says:

      “Anyone that doesn’t demonize Israel you want off this site.”

      Asshole! (Finally, the right target!) You’re the one who is always complaining about “crazy leftists”, dummy. The site is private property, and Mr. Weiss can do what he pleases, he has no obligations to any one of us, or to allow comments (which service he pays for) at all.
      What are you, some kind of Commie. Whole lotta Jews and Zionists are Commies, everybody knows that.

    • Sumud says:

      DavidSiden in one instance you are doing EXACTLY what Shamir did – which was *always* post your replies as a new comment instead of replying to comments inline. In Shamir’s case, an examination of his timestamps revealed “he” was making multiple posts in one minute, it was obvious he was a bot or team or posters. By posting multiple comments and always posting at the top level Shamir dominated the comments and hijacked discussion.

      I think Shamir was a bot, with a software limitation of being unable to reply to comments inline. Your behaviour is identical. You’re welcome to prove me wrong and start posting your replies inline – regularly, not just once or twice.

    • Sumud says:

      “I’m not Shamir or anyone else.”

      What are you if you’re not “anyone else” ?

    • potsherd says:

      All Zionists are one

    • “I’m not Shamir or anyone else.”

      Ha! So you’re not “DavidSiden” either?

      You guys keep cracking me up, I can’t help it… It’s too much.

  4. Mooser says:

    “I welcome the whetstone of their ideas.”

    Since Zionist ideas are so new and revolutionary? I mean, the idea that a more powerful group can be assembled and prey on a weaker group might contain the political truths which will enable mankind to attain a glorious future of peace and contentment. We must examine it carefully, especially since it’s never, ever been tried before, and has never failed.

  5. DavidSiden says:

    Mooser, you would have an argument if Philip Weiss didn’t whine about Israel not letting Chomsky in.

    • Mooser says:

      Ah yes, Israel, the private Jewish property. No doubt an acre of wine-grapes and olive trees, along with a cottage for sale in a bee-loud glade, awaits me there, if I can prove my Jewish boner fides?

  6. DavidSiden says:

    Mooser you write.
    What are you, some kind of Commie. Whole lotta Jews and Zionists are Commies, everybody knows that.

    The Russians, Cuba, North Korea and the rest of the communist world supported the Arabs in the Cold war.

    • Mooser says:

      “The Russians, Cuba, North Korea and the rest of the communist world supported the Arabs in the Cold war”

      See? Just one big happy Jewish Socialist-Communist family! So why not listen to all your fellow Communist Jews, and start liking your Arab fellow man?

      Dave, I grew up with jerks like you. Please don’t expect me to take you seriously, I know who you are.

  7. Cliff says:

    There is no comparison between Chomsky being barred from entering territory that does not belong to Israel, to give a speech he was INVITED to give VERSUS anonymous commentators who spam an ideological message, on an internet blog, which is totally irrelevant to the current topic at hand.

    These kinds of commentators are not engaged in sincere debate. The World Union of Jewish Students’ ‘Hasbara Handbook: Promoting Israel on Campus’ illustrates how pro-Israeli activists can hijack/undermine debates on Israel-Palestine. Many of the aforementioned commentators, some of whom are banned now, used these tactics.

    ‘Point-scoring’.

    W/ respect to Shamir – there was a detailed argument put forth by Annie and Sumud. He was indeed a bot, evidenced by the timestamps of his posts as well as the fact that he was posting the same garbage across various blogs.

    Even you, DavidSiden (or “Len”) do the same thing – you copy and paste commentary across various blogs. You too should be banned for trolling.

    No one is falling for your song and dance. You’re an utter failure of a hasbarist.

    • Mooser says:

      “You’re an utter failure of a hasbarist.”

      Just a subsidiary point here, Cliff, he’s actually not. The quality and consistency of ideas can qualify those who are attracted to them.
      Zionists use a certain quality of ideas, not because they are the best arguements, but because those kinds of ideas attract the people they want. In that sense, Shamir is a good hasbarist. If they believe absurdities, they’ll commit atrocities, and Zionism knows how to find the right Jews for the job. Now, the extreme bigotries and brutalities of the Holacaust could brutalise anybody, except a saint, but when you are two generations away, the pickings get thinner.
      Shamir knows what he is doing. Better ideas would not attract the right people.

  8. Mooser says:

    “I failed to mention the other day that I had banned a voluble commenter….

    Must not have worked. My comments are still appearing.

  9. Oscar says:

    Important to have dissenting voices so this doesn’t turn into an echo chamber that’s occasionally punctuated by Mooser-humor and Witty’s absurd “compassionate Zionist” hasbarics. But we all know that the hasbara wing is in full-blown hyperdrive with paid trolls intended to spam sites such as Mondo with canned propaganda from websites such as CAMERA.

    These websites get no traffic of their own, so they need to be parasites on other sites that have taken years to build traffic. Phil was right to ban a hasbara-bot that is using software to clog up the comment boards.

    Lesser offenders should be put in the penalty box for a month, and given a second chance, with the threat of a lifetime ban.

    Phil, how many posters have you banned since starting mondoweiss? And which ones were pro-Zionist vs anti-Zionist?

    • Philip Weiss says:

      we’ve banned about 10 i guess, and it’s equal, i think. we banned antisemites, too.
      though maybe i’ll ban davidsiden for calling me a whiner. that hurt my feelings, i dont want people to believe that.

      • Sumud says:

        Philip aren’t comments by article authors usually with a pale blue background? And you’ve stopped writing with capitals too, naughty!

      • RoHa says:

        I’d like you to ban people who don’t use the shift key, but annie’s contributions are worthwhile. It’s just a really difficult to read them.

  10. homingpigeon says:

    eggplant alert!!

  11. potsherd says:

    Phil, if there were Zionists with ideas, I would want you to welcome them. But with the exception of wondering jew, the Zionists we get here are doing nothing but hijacking threads with stale hasbara. They aren’t engaged in debate or discussion.

  12. Colin Murray says:

    Yes I know, some folks on my side sometimes do the same, …

    Oops, that’s probably me. I promise to be good. :)

  13. Debonnaire says:

    Hasbara bots completely deracinated the Mattew Yglesias site. They pullulate like maggots there.

  14. demize says:

    Officer Wiess of Passport control United States of Blogtopia baring entry of a third party citizen into someone else’s sovreign territory, yes exactly.

  15. demize says:

    I mispell because I can.

  16. I found some of Shamir’s comments to be very informative, providing some backbone for pro-Zionist positions, that others that have just spouted didn’t support.

    Was their a warning process, a definition of the space’s protocol, consistently defined and applied?

    • Are there rules that apply to gross and intentional misrepresentation of others’ views, and harrassment?

    • Shingo says:

      ”I found some of Shamir’s comments to be very informative, providing some backbone for pro-Zionist positions, that others that have just spouted didn’t support.”

      Of course you did Witty, because you and Shamir are on exactly the same page and becasue lieberal Zionists are right wing Zionists with lipstick.

  17. robin says:

    Not only was Shamir a hijacker, but the few times I reported him it was because I felt his comments at least bordered on hate speech. “The Palestinians are not a people,” “the Palestinian state is Jordan,” “I prefer to see Palestinians weeping after an Israeli rocket attack,” that sort of thing.

    • Shingo says:

      What confuses me about Shamir and David Siden, is that if they are paid to troll here, then what is their goal? If they are trying to debate criticism of Israel and improve Israel’s image, they are failing miserably because all they are doing is reinforcing the stereotypes of angry, racist, war mongering, supremacist Zionists.

      I have a theory that the Usraeli pyopaganda machine has realized the fight to win hearts and minds is lost, and that they are going back to the Herzl theory that anti semiyism is Israel’s greatest ally. They could be resorting to inciting anti semitism as a means of delegitimizing Israel’s critics.

      Let’s ensure that if this is their goal, they do not succeed.

      • potsherd says:

        The goal is to keep the truth from being disseminated.

        • Shingo says:

          It’s certainly Witty’s.

        • rachel says:

          “The goal is to keep the truth from being disseminated.”

          Au contraire! Truth is like beauty. There are no truths, only narratives and POVs! Case in point, the picture. Every facet of the IP conflict is subject to many interpretations. You think Shamir was preventing your so called “truth” from coming out while in reality he was just trying to disseminate his own truths. And he does not have to be paid for that. In my case I should actually pay you and your posse for providing me with untold infotainment. I clicked 590 visits already! Wow! I switched from watching Jon Stewart to checking in here for my nightly fix. It is that much fun! One has to keep one’s frenemis very very close! How else can we come up with new hasbara points all the time ? We have to try them on you first. Once hasbarisms have spread far and wide and become truisms, we get a cheque from the Elders.

          Hey Phil, what don’t you zap Javs? He is coucou.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          Pot, kettle, rachel.

          Tell that to the African Americans in the picture, that what they suffered through wasn’t “the truth” but merely “they’re biased perspective.”

          Try telling that to the ones that got lynched. Or raped. Or both.

        • “He is coucou. ”
          What’s coucou is to look at the photo of the cackling hyenas taunting and teasing a woman who had been thrown out of her home, and think they’re “just having some fun together”. What’s coucou is to look at an endless stream of photos documenting the nakba, the expulsion, the dispossession, the long trail of misery, people hitting the road bare-foot, carrying their elderly and all they could manage to carry on their backs, children erring in the mud, and think that they could be “taken anywhere in the M.E in the 50s” .
          That’s more than coucou. That’s FUBAR…In case you don’t know what it stands for, check it out.

        • In other words, you have failed the test of your humanity.

        • Sumud says:

          “In my case I should actually pay you and your posse for providing me with untold infotainment.”

          Hey that’s exactly what eee said – he was here for entertainment, not because he had a deep sense of foreboding that the racist settler state of Israel is in serious trouble. I didn’t believe him either.

          Don’t be so cynical about truth rachel. Would you tell a holocaust survivor their testimony was a POV not a truth?

        • rachel says:

          What I refuse to do my dear TGIA is to grant Palestinians
          sainthood. I refuse to mythologize and fetishize them. Lots of people suffer on earth. As a matter, their “suffering” has taken up too much of the world’s sympathy and resources. I am not buying into it. Sue me!
          That woman-if indeed they were arguing-was no shrinking violet. She does not need you to defend her. What was in her hand anyways? Was she trying to hit them with a tray?
          This picture is nothing. Nobody dies from calling each other sharmoota. You don’t have a case! You are making mountains out of a molehill.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          I refuse to mythologize and fetishize them.

          Right. Being Zionist, that’s just something else you make exclusive to Jews and Jews only, as well.

          Also, kudos for basically saying the same sort of thing as, “Well, Krystallnacht wasn’t so bad.”

        • rachel says:

          Sumud ou resistance,
          Holocaut deniers certainly think so. Ask David Duke.

          I am cynical about the manipulation intended to tug at my heart strings and I am not buying into it!

        • Sumud says:

          “As a matter, their “suffering” has taken up too much of the world’s sympathy and resources”

          Rachel, comptroller of the world’s “sympathy and resources”. I guess it sucks when your hasbara just can’t get traction.

        • rachel says:

          Chaos,

          You have this unhealthy obssession with nazi memorabilia.

        • Sumud says:

          “I am cynical about the manipulation intended to tug at my heart strings and I am not buying into it!”

          How do you feel about the zionist exploitation of the holocaust for political ends then? I find it deeply offensive.

        • rachel says:

          Hasbara, shmasbara. Your side, my side. WHat is this, a soccer game? And your have nothing, except slogans and a nice keffyeh.
          Ciao!

      • “…if they are paid to troll here, then what is their goal?”

        Exactly, the people who comment here are much too well informed (i.e., they have functioning brains) to really be convinced by any of their rhetoric, so the idea is a failure to begin with. And as the facts are not on their side, it’s just generally a lost cause. The “I can shout louder than you, and cite more irrelevant documents and web pages than you” argument doesn’t work here. It just takes up space.

        The only thing I can think of is to stir up tensions and get people to react violently, tarnishing the reputation of Phil’s site.

        • demize says:

          That’s insightful Laraine. There is a strategic military precedent. I assume this would translate into Psychological Operations/Information Warfare. link to en.wikipedia.org

        • Hmm. I suppose the equivalent here would be posting racist and antisemitic comments, inciting violence, and using that to “prove” that Mondoweiss is a place that encourages or harbors an antisemitic agenda… a way of planting “bombs”…
          I’ve seen a very little of that here (no names), but I think they were actually sincere.
          Controlling opinion and image is a huge enterprise, and Israel and the US spend enormous amounts of money on public relations every year – it’s not for nothing. People tend to believe what they read because it has an almost “sacred” character to it, as if it being written down confers some sort of truth to an idea, and if it’s repeated enough times, it becomes credible. There have been studies on this, I’m sure.

        • Sumud says:

          Sometimes astroturfing is merely about creating noise so serious comments are lost.

        • yonira says:

          So Lare, you are saying the Israeli government is paying to tarnish the name of a blog? way to use that functioning brain of yours LOL. Genius!!

        • Sumud says:

          “you are saying the Israeli government is paying to tarnish the name of a blog?”

          Israel is no stranger to false flag operations:

          link to en.wikipedia.org

          If Israel is prepared to plant bombs with the hopes others are blamed it’s entirely conceivable the MFA or some other gov. group would covertly seek to derail a blog. On Lavon I wouldn’t normally cite an event 50+ years old but so little about the tactics, strategy and vision of zionism has changed in the interim it seems relevant.

        • I never advanced the hypothesis that the Israeli gov’t was paying people to spread propaganda. There is already the NYT, the JPost and a slew of others already doing that.

          Also, I don’t need to, it’s been reported on and referred to here several times. This is absolutely not far-fetched, and has been done before, especially in times of war. IF it is being done, then one OBVIOUS tactic would be to discredit and pollute pro-Palestinian and generally progressive websites. Again, nothing mind-bending here.

          The problem with the pro-Israeli crowd here is that the arguments are so weak and so rehashed and so gathered up from dubious sources that they can’t possibly believe that they are actually making a good case. So the only other explanations are :

          1. They are paid, and have to honor their contracts no matter what
          2. They are bored, and actually enjoy the conversation
          3. They are masochists
          4. They are severely delusional

          Tell me if I missed something.

        • from
          link to spinprofiles.org

          The Guardian’s Rachel Shabi highlighted the Directorate’s use of new media and social networks in the conflict:

          The hasbara directive also liaises over core messages with bodies such as friendship leagues, Jewish communities, bloggers and backers using online networks. Last week the directorate started a YouTube channel showing Israeli bombings in the Gaza strip. “New media is a new war zone within the media – we are planning to be relevant there,” said Leibovich.

          As the conflict wore on, Rachel Shabi concluded that the Directorate’s work was proving successful:

          Israel’s war on Gaza was the first time we saw the “hasbara” directive in action. A body set up to spin (or “explain”, if you like) the country’s justifications for the war, it tightly coordinated key messages and worked on so many levels – mainstream media as well as diplomatic channels, friendship leagues, YouTube, Twitter and the blogosphere – that the effect was epidemic. It got world media repeating the Israeli government’s core messages practically verbatim.

        • Shingo says:

          “Israel’s war on Gaza was the first time we saw the “hasbara” directive in action. A body set up to spin (or “explain”, if you like) the country’s justifications for the war, it tightly coordinated key messages and worked on so many levels – mainstream media as well as diplomatic channels, friendship leagues, YouTube, Twitter and the blogosphere – that the effect was epidemic. It got world media repeating the Israeli government’s core messages practically verbatim.”

          Actually, the rolled it out first during the 2006 Lebanon war, though that had no more success than this effort.  Sadly for Israel, they weren’t able to block access for foreign journalists on that occasion.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        I just wish someone would pay them to learn how to use the freakin’ Reply button.

      • “if they are paid to troll here, then what is their goal?”

        Keep us busy being on the defensive responding to attacks. They, not us, would be framing the discussion, the choice of topics becomes theirs. It is often said that he who frame the discussion controls it. That’s why shamir /seden the two two maggots throw an avalanche of topic/attacks one every 30 seconds in a new window and leave you to argue and defend.
        A classic.

        • yonira says:

          I don’t understand what the point is. You guys, on Phil’s side, really have your minds made up. I don’t see any paid troll blogger winning the hearts and minds of anyone here.

          I could see where it would be more official on more mainstream websites and talk-backs where the populous hasn’t already made up their mind.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          Nice try, but if you really thought Mondoweiss wasn’t making an impact, you wouldn’t be here so persistently, yourself.

        • yonira says:

          Who is it impacting Chaos? Like minded individuals, anti-Zionists. Nobody that visits this site is on the ropes, they are either ardent anti-Zionists, anti-Semites, ardent Zionist, or Islamophobes.

        • Whether paid or not that is not the issue. I can easily imagine they’re not. I’m aware that Israel lovers have more zeal than any other cult known to Man kind. My point was that the flood, avalanche, bombardment of off-topic, irrelevant posts was meant to drown/bury/destroy the whole thread..

        • “Nobody that visits this site is on the ropes, they are either ardent anti-Zionists, anti-Semites, ardent Zionist, or Islamophobes.”

          No only! You forgot the curious, the undecided and the sitting on the fence crowd, they’re legions.

        • Sumud says:

          “Nobody that visits this site is on the ropes, they are either ardent anti-Zionists, anti-Semites, ardent Zionist, or Islamophobes.”

          You can’t know that yonira. Which of your (inadequate) categories are you BTW?

        • Sumud says:

          “Nobody that visits this site is on the ropes, they are either ardent anti-Zionists, anti-Semites, ardent Zionist, or Islamophobes.”

          You can’t know that yonira. Which of your (inadequate) categories are you BTW?

        • yonira says:

          Atheist,

          how about the constant ad hominem and hateful comments against those that are against you. Is this not flooding the blog also? For example, calling my a Nazi, fat, fake jew, red neck, as I have been called on here many times, is that not hijacking the blog too?

        • Chaos4700 says:

          I’m pretty sure I never called you fat. That was one I reserved for Witty.

  18. Oscar says:

    Has everyone noticed how spirited the debates have been in recent weeks? New Mondo postings are now routinely getting 200+ comments. Critical mass . . .

    • rachel says:

      New Mondo postings are now routinely getting 200+ comments. Critical mass . . .

      Only when ” the zionists” post! Then the knives come out! Otherwise the thread is listless.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        Only the psychopathic could look at the sort of pictures we’ve seen here of Palestinians suffering at the hands of Zionist dilettantes and find that dull and unmoving, I dare say.

        • rachel says:

          “find that dull and unmoving, I dare say.”

          Cry me a river-er
          Cry me a river
          Cry me a river-er, yea yea

        • rachel says:

          My suffering is bigger than your suffering!

        • Chaos4700 says:

          Only because you are bigger than I am.

          That’s not a Zionist, that’s a battle station!

        • rachel
          You fit perfectly the image of the psychotic Israel lover. Your inability to see things for what they are, (as in two cases of the nakba photos and the cackling hyenas photo) can only be interpreted as a pathological case of being in total denial about your own responsibility in supporting and cheering for a criminal enterprise of dispossession and subjugation..You simply DO NOT want to know. It’s too distablising..

        • If we had shown you the famous b&w photo of the Vietnamese girl running naked trying to escape the napalm bombardment, you would have said ( if it was in an Israeli/Palestinian context), ” What a lousy photoshop job! Can’t you see she just wants to jump into the water and have some fun at the pool?”

        • rachel says:

          Nice try, TGIA. I don’t do guilt either!

        • rachel says:

          Oh I get it now. You are hoping for this picture to become an iconic image? Sorry to disappoint you. It won’t do! It is a nothing picture!

        • “I don’t do guilt either! ”

          Well, EXACTLY!

        • “You are hoping for this picture to become an iconic image? Sorry to disappoint you. It won’t do! It is a nothing picture! ”

          I’m hoping nothing for the photo. It’s just a photo. My thoughts go to the dispossessed woman and all her people, my people, who have been demonised, dehumanised, that the idea of inflicting unbearable pain on them is just the normal thing to do. The problem with you is that you’re part of the problem because you deny that this is really taking place..

      • yonira says:

        Rachel, remind me when you see the next 200+ comment thread. I’ll go one by one through the comments and see how many are NOT simply ad hominems and calls for banning ‘trolls’ because of their differing opinions. My guess is 5 percent.

        • rachel says:

          So true, Yonira. How many ways can they say to each other
          genocideethniccleansinglandtheftwhitephosphorus?
          It always, Israel is bad, super bad, super freaky bad. It is like that song from Rick James. “Israel is such a freaky thing” Motown 2010.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          Talk about role reversal. Can you imagine what charming anti-Semites these two hateful freaks would make if they weren’t Jewish? They’ve certainly got the trivialization of crimes against humanity down pat.

        • Sumud says:

          Let’s hope they don’t breed. Maybe Rachel needs to have reduced calorific intake.

          link to richardsilverstein.com

        • rachel says:

          You are right Sumud. I defenitely could use some reduced caloric intake! My tuchus is on the big side.

        • We can’t put yonira and Rachel in the same category. I think yonira rather goes with Witty but Rachel goes with the cackling hyenas shown in the photo of yesterday’s post. I’m very often opposed to what yonira says but I don’t think he’s a loathsome being. Rachel on the other hand has the mind of a Dr. Mengele.

        • Sumud says:

          “I defenitely could use some reduced caloric intake! ”

          Nothing a few months in Gaza couldn’t solve.

        • Sumud says:

          I agree TGIA – Rachel has a serious case of Schadenfreude.

        • Mike Whitney on rachel like Israeli freaks:
          “Narcissistic and hysterical. Pathologically self- absorbed. The only thing that matters is Israeli suffering, anything else is trivial. It’s no wonder security is so hard to come by when people are so lacking in empathy.”

        • Shingo says:

          Mike Whitney on rachel like Israeli freaks:
          “Narcissistic and hysterical. Pathologically self- absorbed. The only thing that matters is Israeli suffering, anything else is trivial. It’s no wonder security is so hard to come by when people are so lacking in empathy.”

          Wow, that is a perfect psychoanalysis of Witty right there in one sentence.

        • “My tuchus is on the big side. ”

          Kryste! rachel! We don’t need as much information.