Suffer little children

"the jeep reversed for five or six metres and then rammed once again into the tractor" [Indymedia Israel report on an April incident in the Jordan valley in which two Palestinian girls, 5 and 8, were killed when an Israeli jeep left the road to hit their father's tractor; they were in a "basket" seat.]

About Eva Smagacz

White Knight from Britain.
Posted in Israel/Palestine

{ 159 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. eljay says:

    Too bad Hamas didn’t take up composing haikus instead of defending Palestinians against the aggressions (theft, sabotage, destruction, assassination) of Israel. Had they done so, Israelis and Palestinians could have been knitting peace from the green yarn of mutual respect and adoration, and this tragedy could have been avoided.

  2. eee says:

    This story maybe could have made sense if the soldiers were driving an armored Humvee, but a Jeep? A Jeep would be completely crushed if it rams into a tractor and the soldiers in the jeep would be severely injured or dead. Something just does not add up. How could it be that none of the soldiers were hurt by their frontal ramming into the tractor?

    The only probable explanation is that the Jeep did not ram the tractor, it probably side swiped it.

    By the way Eva, you never told me when the Poles plan to return all the property they took from the Jews after WWII.

    • Avi says:

      First off, if you were actually an Israeli, not an Oleh poser, you’d know that the term “Jeep” is interchangeably for most 4×4 vehicles, much in the same way Kleenex is synonymous with tissues.

      Either way, it doesn’t make much difference. A Jeep can easily ram a tractor at low speed without incurring damage, especially if the Jeep has pushbars installed (which most IOF Jeeps do).

      What’s really low, the lowest of the low, is the fact that you’re implying that the girls were killed by accident or weren’t killed by the IOF’s deliberate barbaric behavior. Yeah, the Palestinians are lying…sure.

      It doesn’t surprise me one bit that a nevelah like you would say that.

      As for your diversionary question to Eva, well, this isn’t the place nor the time to ask that question, certainly not when your heroes murdered two little children in cold blood.

      • eee says:

        You are a prize idiot and of course a liar. I have served many years in the IDF and you are so full of shit it is amazing you can even type without ruining your keyboard.

        This libel was originally published in:
        link to palsolidarity.org

        It was not written by an Israeli. So your lame excuse about using Jeep as a generic term for any 4×4 is moot. Furthermore, when one describes accidents, it is common to be specific, not generic.

        And yes, most probably the girls were killed by accident. The one that is low here is you. You are prepared to believe any lie perpetuated about Israeli soldiers. Your irrational hatred is consuming you.

        • kalithea says:

          “I have served many years in the IDF”

          Well now, that explains everything!

          “Your irrational hatred is consuming you.”

          Look in the mirror if you really want to know what it looks like.

        • eee says:

          What does it explain, Mr. there are too many Jews in Congress?
          Please, give us another antisemitic or anti-Israel monologue.

        • kalithea says:

          Correction: There are too many Jews on Aipac’s payroll.

        • VR says:

          Ya eee, this you know from experience –

          “The mark of Cain won’t sprout
          from a soldier who shoots
          at the head of a child
          on a knoll by the fence
          around a refugee camp–
          for beneath his helmet,
          conceptually speaking,
          his head is made of cardboard.
          On the other hand,
          the officer has read The Rebel;
          his head is enlightened,
          and so he does not believe
          in the mark of Cain.
          He’s spent time in museums,
          and when he aims
          his rifle at a boy
          as an ambassador of Culture,
          he updates and recycles
          Goya’s etchings
          and Guernica.”
          Aharon Shabtai

          The number one reason for death of Palestinian children through weapons is a gun shot through the head administered by the IDF. Tell it to someone else eee

      • Reports I have seen said that the ‘jeep’ backed off after the first hit, and deliberately tried a ‘finishing touch’
        link to alethonews.wordpress.com

        Nothing surprises me about this incident. IDF conscript goons, given weapons, vehicles, and a thoroughly racialist training programme, are bound to do something like this if they are high on something.

        The real problem is that we’ve had more than a full generation of IDF conscript goons, from the beginning of the First Intifada in 1987, until now, indoctrinated that Palestinians are less than human, and can be swiped like mosquitoes or cockroaches.

        Those brainwashed young men and women are going to grow up, and be around for a long time.

        • eee says:

          The Jeep was probably trying to disengage and slipped back onto the tractor.

          You are taking an accident and trying to construe it as a murder.

        • Cliff says:

          You’re such a slimeball 3e.

          This article is about the murder of Palestinian children and you’re changing the subject?

          People like you are the lowest of the low. You’re disgusting.

          And naturally, a total liar/criminal/scumbag like you would jump to the defense of your fellow parasites.

        • zamaaz says:

          [when an Israeli military jeep swerved off the road, at speed, and rammed into the tractor from behind.]
          The site of accident is located along a cemetery having lower elevation. The terrain is sloping with the road presumably at the top of the slope. If the Jeep climbed up the ridge to ram the tractor – it was clearly intentional to murder the Palestinians. The report showed the jeep swerved, thus loss of control was a factor. A case of pure accident.
          Nonetheless, it appears the aggravating factor to the news was the emotional sensitionalization of the circumstances. Of course, who has no broken heart in such incident? But the fact suggested the possibility of uncontrolled circumstances, thus we can never insinuate without malice the IDF intentionally murdered them… nor an IDF policy has something to do with it…
          [Israeli citizen Eliazer Salam, from the settlement at Yama, who had witnessed the entire incident from his car, testified that the jeep driver had not applied his brakes at any stage and had, indeed, swerved off the road and accelerated into the tractor.]
          This shows the driver was not able to apply brakes preventively and it swerved then… a possible surprised reaction of the driver (panicked) and the speed was so fast, the time was so short to avoid the tractor. Picture showed as distance of about 10-15 meters from the roadside. With a speed of about 60kph on a highway or 16 meters/sec. it takes a second or a little bit more to hit the tractor. I have several crashes myself, and with a swerving vehicle the driver cannot just easily control the wheels right within 1 second…
          [With the body of one sister draped obscenely over its front bumper, the jeep reversed for five or six metres and then rammed once again into the tractor.]
          [Their jeep undriveable and so unable to escape,]
          Sad to say, the Israeli witness was not quoted about this allegation. But the question arise how come the driver reversed back and hit again the tractor when it was undrivable? On the other hand, if its drivable why did the driver and the jeep remained in the site? As a natural response, they could have at least picked the victims and rushed them to the nearest medical stations? These are the issues that need further investigations and clarifications…
          [Far from protecting the civilian population of the territories which they occupy, as required under international law, the Israeli military brutalises and preys upon a helpless people.]
          This is a separate issue; a pure condemnation of the IDF.

        • zamaaz says:

          An worst the direction of the runaway vehicle appeared somehow downhill, making the time lapse possibly even more shorter, and with increased velocity… The brakes may have been applied but could have been too late… Otherwise, the jeep could have been crashing down the cemetery below…

      • Danaa says:

        Avi, Oleh Poser is precious. I agree with your hunch – despite his protestations, there’s something about eee that’s just too, well, un-Israeli . Maybe the disingenuousness or the fact that he doe protest too much, or just that serpentine, slithery quality that makes him a poster boy for reptilian behavior patterns (with apologies to real reptiles. As a species they are genuine enough, and certainly no self-respecting reptile would pretend to be a zebra – or an eagle). My favorite current theory is that he is a failed oleh – been there, maybe spends some time there, maybe, but not quite fitting in. Being here is how he makes amends to what he thought Israel would be.

        I know that what eee is or isn’t is not important in the larger scheme of things. But speculation is a blog-addict’s common currency. The more idle the better value.

        • Cliff says:

          So, Danaa the prostitute from some California truck stop, nice to meet you.

          I urge the regular commentators here to report this Zionist, pathological liar and coward for this disgusting insult.

        • Frances says:

          Not necessary, Cliff. Dana might hypothetically be a Cali truck-stop hooker and eee might be an former soldier in the IDF and bona fide Israeli, but he’s STILL coming off worse than her. Takes talent, that does.

        • kalithea says:

          I doubt Dana appreciates even this “hypothetical” conclusion. I know I wouldn’t.

          I believe eee has shown his true colors.

        • MRW says:

          Danaa is a scientist who worked in Israel, for those who haven’t been on this blog long enough to know.

        • Danaa says:

          Thank you, my able defenders of honor lost to blog pit bottom feeders -

          Alas, business is a bit slow at the california truck stop, so I am back here to collect me some scalps….perhaps I could trade for some good crack?

          However, I think I may have struck a nerve with our lonesome eee, a particularly raw one, at that. hey, it’s Avi’s fault….where is he to avenge my honor?

          BTW, MRW, I did not only work in Israel, but actually grew up there. Though that was before that little country came out of the closet as a mad colonial outpost for north american back-to-the-future, end-of-the-world dead-enders… in my days, we could at least still pretend to be part of the “only democracy in the ME”, a glorious homeland of noble-refugees-turned-reluctant invaders. But that was then… and eee has to (feels obliged to) defend what is now….while pining for what might have been, rosy glasses and all…..

        • MRW says:

          I stand corrected, Danaa, and of course, you did write that you grew up there before Israel became Sparta. I’m still stuck on trying to figure out what kind of scientist you are, ever since you threw down that gauntlet. ;-)

          The real moser on on this blog, eee, never bothered to read the archives.

        • tree says:

          Danaa,

          Yes, it really doesn’t matter who eee is, or where he’s from, but just to lend a bit of support to the idle speculation, I find it odd that eee has repeatedly referred to an incident that occurred in Santa Monica California in 2003 (nearly 7 years ago) to support the idea that witnesses could be mistaken about intent, rather than refer to a similar incident that happened only two months ago involving a Palestinian tractor driver hitting a settler’s car in what was first assumed to be a “terror” attack.

          It seems strange to me that eee would be more familiar with an accident that occurred 7 years ago in California then an accident that occurred in the West Bank 2 months ago, unless he was really living here and not in Israel.

          Idle speculation of course, but intriguing nonetheless.

        • eee says:

          Another idiot. I googled for an American example.

        • tree says:

          Why an American example when a more current Israeli example existed and could be linked to? Afraid of showing that Israeli Jewish witnesses could be wrong? Or, not aware of the incident?

          What were your googling terms that you used to find the American accident? You should be able to share those with us so that you could prove how you located the accident from 7 years ago.

        • tree says:

          “Another idiot.”

          Didn’t you insist earlier that you didn’t name call unless someone had done the same to you first? Another lie?

        • eee says:

          Tree,

          I wrote that I respect people until they disrespect me. Trying to allude that I am not Israeli is an ad hominem attack and disrespectful. Ergo, you are an idiot.

        • tree says:

          So what are the google terms you used to find the California incident ? Share them with us and prove you are right.

          —————
          If ad hominem attacks and disrespect proves idiocy then you’ve got it in spades. But even that is just another logical fallacy of yours, meant to excuse your own disrespect and viscious name calling.

        • eee says:

          You keep doubting that I am Israeli? That is your problem.
          I have indulged Avi and Danna and nothing is proof enough for you assholes. First they alluded that I didn’t know Hebrew, then they alluded that my Hebrew was too good. Then they alluded that I copied my personal information from a facebook page. It never stops.

          I am a second generation Israeli. I was born in Israel, my parents were born in Israel and all my kids were born in Israel. I served many years in the IDF.

          What I don’t understand is why this issue matters so much to you?

        • tree says:

          All I am asking is for you to provide the Google search terms you claimed you used. I’m not talking about whether you are an Israeli or not. I’m asking you to prove you were telling the truth when you said you did a Google search. If you provide the words you used for the search than everyone here can know that, at least in that instance, you were telling the truth . Answering the question might raise your credibility here. Failing to answer such a simple question will only lower it, since if you did no search and just lied about it, then you won’t be able to answer the question.

          So what were the words you used in the search?

        • eee says:

          I am an Israeli, learn to live with it. I am not playing your games anymore. You are trying to allude that I am not.

          In your latest post all of a sudden you change your tune and say:
          “I’m not talking about whether you are an Israeli or not.”

          When in fact in your original post on this you wrote:
          “but just to lend a bit of support to the idle speculation”

          What idle speculation? That I am not Israeli of course.
          So you want me to trust you, a liar, that cannot keep his story straight between two posts?

          No proof will be good enough for you as you indulge in lies and idle speculation.

        • tree says:

          OK, got it. You have just given up the chance to easily prove that you did not lie when you insisted that you did a Goggle search to find the accident. I consider that an admission that you CANNOT prove that you did not lie in that statement.

          No one really knows who anyone who posts anonymously on the internet truly is. That’s the internet for you. Frankly, although I am a woman, I don’t expect that anyone here has to believe me just because I say it. I’m not offended if someone thinks I’m not, or if they idly speculate about who I am, unless the “idle speculation” is merely a crude attempt at nasty name calling. You “idly speculate” that Danaa is a “crack whore” and then get upset because people wonder whether you are Israeli or not? Really?? What a double standard!

          It makes no difference to me whether you are Israeli or not. But lying about something that can so easily be checked doesn’t do you any good. That is what I am concerned with. You could prove that you didn’t lie about the Google search, but you either cannot or choose not to do so. You indulge in lies and vicious “idle speculation” and then accuse others of the things that you do.

        • i hope to god you are an israeli; that would indicate that a certain contagion has not spread to the USofA. we’ve got enough of our own nutcases to contend with.

        • sherbrsi says:

          i hope to god you are an israeli;

          Is there any doubt? There must be hundreds like him swarming the internet right now, telling us this is all an “unfortunate accident,” the Palestinian witnesses are liars and the IDF is still the most army in the world.

        • We called the nurse, eee. Everything is going to be all right. Just take it easy while you’re reported..you foul-mouthed, chatichat chara!

    • eljay says:

      >> This story maybe could have made sense if the soldiers were driving an armored Humvee, but a Jeep? A Jeep would be completely crushed if it rams into a tractor and the soldiers in the jeep would be severely injured or dead.

      This story was covered in a previous thread, and in an article linked to in that thread (link to maannews.net), an Israeli military spokesman confirmed that it was, in fact, a Jeep that struck the tractor.

      Now, where did I put that ball of green yarn…

      • eee says:

        Of course it was a Jeep and Avi is again shown to be a compulsive liar. And of course the Jeep could not have “rammed” the tractor because then the soldiers would also be severely injured. It is clear that the Jeep did not hit the tractor frontally and that it was an accident.

        • eljay says:

          >> Of course it was a Jeep …

          Wow, less than half an hour ago, it couldn’t have been a Jeep.

          >> And of course the Jeep could not have “rammed” the tractor because then the soldiers would also be severely injured.

          Not necessarily true. It doesn’t take much “ramming” or colliding to kill exposed children, and if you’re the one doing the ramming / colliding you can take precautions to ensure that your own safety.

          >> It is clear that the Jeep did not hit the tractor frontally and that it was an accident.

          Actually, it is not at all clear in either of the articles just how the Jeep rammed / collided into the tractor.

          C’mon, man, more green yarn and less hate. Make RW proud of you for using poetry instead of destabilization. ;-)

        • eee says:

          You cannot read can you?
          I said that if it were not a Jeep it could have made more sense, but since it is clear that it is a Jeep, then the whole story is highly improbable.

          Instead of spinning an accident into a murder, why don’t you wake up and put your irrational hatred under control?

        • eljay says:

          >> Instead of spinning an accident into a murder, why don’t you wake up and put your irrational hatred under control?

          Hmmm…maybe green is not your colour. How about some blue yarn? It doesn’t quite fit in with RW’s poetic vision (blue yarn on the green line), but I’m willing to give it a try.

        • Frances says:

          Remember, eljay, we must avoid at all costs the usage of a maximalist colour like red. So peach on the green line? Lavender? I like a nice mauve, myself.

        • eee says:

          Remember Frances that the Jews have their own country and an army and that they cannot be pushed around anymore by sanctimonious bigots parading as saints. Thank you for reminding everyone why the Jews need a country of their own.

        • Frances says:

          I’ve no problem acknowledging that. I also believe the Palestinians need their own country and an army so they won’t be pushed around anymore by sanctimonious racists who view God as a real-estate agent and the Bible as a land deed and seriously consider the Gaza massacre an act of self-defense. Thank you for reminding everyone why the Palestinians desperately need to be out from under the thumb of people like you.

        • eee says:

          If you would really believe what you preach, you would support Fayyad and his attempts to create a Palestinian state.

        • Frances says:

          You have no idea whether I do or don’t support Fayyad. Keep guessing.

        • Cliff says:

          Palestinians deserve a State and an army to fight back against butchers, cowards, racists, and bullies like you 3e. Scum like you deserve to rot in prison.

        • eee says:

          Cliff,

          Go join the Palestinian army. Coward, what are you waiting for?

        • Cliff says:

          All supporters of the Palestinians fight against Zionist brutality in their own way. I suppose I already am a member of the ‘Palestinian army’.

          I do my part. I donated food/clothing to the Gaza ‘breaking the siege’ campaign (vis a vis a family friend in the UK).

          Your words mean nothing. You’re just another crook to me. In a long line of crooks, whether they were the Nazis, or the KKK, or the BNP, etc.

          You’re a Jewish Supremacist. A nationalist fanatic.

          And while I believe the Palestinians deserve a physical fighting force to fend of parasites like you, I believe non-violence and protest is much more effective. That’s why I support BDS and constant non-violent pressure.

          That doesn’t mean I believe in stepping on egg-shells lightly like Dick Witty.

          Absolutely not. Israel and Zionism are the enemies. Israel is the military industrial complex. A European settler-State, that rages upon the indigenous population whenever they fight back against the constant dehumanization perpetrated upon them in the form of murder, theft, abuse, unjust imprisonment, etc.

          No one will ever accept being converted to Zionism.

          You and your cult of freaks and liars will eventually be defeated like every other racist organization throughout history. It may take a long time, but it’s only going to get easier as people learn more about Palestine and the true history of Israel rather than the bullshit and lies spouted by Zionist talking-heads over here.

          I don’t need an army. I just need people to take the time to listen to Palestinian voices. To read more. To go over to the Occupied Territories and see scumbag cowards like you in action, pushing around old men and women, and their children – who are just trying to live their lives in the best way they can, under the boot of a bully State like the Zionist State.

          Keep calling me an antisemite or Jew-Hater or w/e handful of Jew-related labels, you can think of.

          It only affirms my beliefs. Being called an antisemite by a coward and liar like you, means I’m doing something right.

        • eee says:

          Did you paint a mural also? You know that helps a lot.
          Meanwhile Israel got accepted to the OECD.
          This time around the Jews have a country and an army. And we will defend ourselves against bigots and haters like you. Your kind have raised their foul head in every generation. What gets you so angry is that the Jews are not pushovers any more. Learn to accept that. You want a fight, you got a fight.

        • Don says:

          “Actually, it is not at all clear in either of the articles just how the Jeep rammed / collided into the tractor.”

          That is precisely correct. So pardon my skeptical mind, but given the absence of “how”…on what basis do you and the others here simply assume it was deliberate? (i.e. murder).

          In the absence of any evidence, many of the comments on this thread make the authors sound like their medication has worn off.

          Oh, I forgot. In the good ol’ USA, we no longer need evidence to convict! (see Glen Greenwald).

        • You still insist, not speculate, that it was an accident./ Yet, a settler, of all people for goozsake who witnessed the whole thing stated otherwise:

          >The soldiers claimed that it was “an accident”, but Israeli citizen Eliazer Salam, from the settlement at Yama, who had witnessed the entire incident from his car, testified that the jeep driver had not applied his brakes at any stage and had, indeed, swerved off the road and accelerated into the tractor.>

          I personally doubt that a settler would accredit the Palestinian version against the IKF(K for killing)!

    • kalithea says:

      Ugh! No words can qualify such apathy; but let me try. Offensive and disgusting!

      • eee says:

        What is offensive and disgusting is you jumping to conclusions. This has all the marks of an unfortunate accident.

        • kalithea says:

          Suuuure…just like all those thousands of other “accidents” the IDF keeps explaining away!

        • eee says:

          The Palestinians have been given hundreds of video cameras to shoot the “brutality” of the IDF. Well, where are these videos? Why don’t we get one every day? Where are those damning pictures coming in every day? Instead what you have is the situation in the West Bank getting economically better. Of course once in a while a soldier acts out of line and is disciplined. But you are painting a picture that is not real.

        • Sumud says:

          Again with the unfortunate accident excuse?

          Israel makes WAY too many “unfortunate accidents” eee.

        • Cliff says:

          There have been countless reports of abuse/murder/all forms of disgusting behavior by the IDF perpetrated upon Palestinians. Just because it’s not caught on video tape does not mean it didn’t happen.

          3e likes to set up the premise (If A exists, then B happened, if not then B did not happen), then argue against or for it. In other words: STRAW MAN.

          You’re an imbecile. Stop posting. You pollute this blog with your asinine arguments. So dumb. You’re not even defending your racist, pariah State properly. Haven’t you read the Hasbara Manual? Did you get rejected from the cult for being utterly worthless at pushing pro-Israel BS on the web?

        • >Well, where are these videos?The soldiers claimed that it was “an accident”, but Israeli citizen Eliazer Salam, from the settlement at Yama, who had witnessed the entire incident from his car, testified that the jeep driver had not applied his brakes at any stage and had, indeed, swerved off the road and accelerated into the tractor.<

          I know settlers are generally congenital liars but not when it's against their own!

      • Mooser says:

        “Ugh! No words can qualify such apathy; but let me try. Offensive and disgusting!”

        That would be just right to put in the “report abuse” box. Please do so.

    • MarkF says:

      “By the way Eva, you never told me when the Poles plan to return all the property they took from the Jews after WWII”

      Not sure about the Poles, but my father, a Pole, received monthly compensation checks from the German government until he died. Germany paid compensation to Israel.

      “The only probable explanation…” Any chance it’s not the only one? To use your wording, the only “right way” to state this is so say “One possible explanation is..”

      • eee says:

        But the Poles did not give the Jews or Israel a cent. There were 3-4 million Jews in Poland pre WWII. Were they all homeless? The Poles owe Israel and the Jews trillions of dollars.

        • Mooser says:

          “The Poles owe Israel and the Jews trillions of dollars”

          I don’t know why they call it “World” War 2, when only the Jews suffered.

        • MarkF says:

          My opinion, reparations should go to the victims. My dad’s gone, he managed to buy a house, make a living, put me through college and still have enough to invest in Israel. I don’t want a penny from Poland.

          Israel is now a wealthy nation that can afford to provide universal health care for all it’s citizens, thanks in part to Germany, American aid and people like my dad.

        • eee says:

          Good, then we will wait until all the Palestinians that were evicted in 48 die, which should happen in less than 30 years or so and all will be well.

        • marc b. says:

          not just jews, mooser. but you’ll have to admit that they are perched on the apex of the hierarchy of suffering. roma? feh. the tens of millions of poles, ukrainians, russians killed in the war by germany and the soviets alike? double feh. but have no fear, given the zionists strictly adhere to the historical imperative, and a recent archeological find in jerusalem has proven that the swedes were the original settlers of the region. and with this proof, zionists will depart quietly, letting the nords take their rightful place in the holy land. because their presence there is not based on religion, but 4000 years of history.

        • Mooser says:

          Marc, give it up. Everyone knows the Nord will never replace the Hammond! The tone-wheel will defeat the clone-wheel!

        • eee says:

          Many people suffered in WWII. How does that absolve the Poles from returning the trillions in property that they stole from the Jews?

        • Mooser says:

          Don’t try and avoid the subject, “eee”! Where do you stand on the tone-wheel vs. clone-wheel question? And what about rotary-sim? I suppose you think that’s fine, too?
          You make me sick, sick!

        • MarkF says:

          As long as they get reparations and citizenship like my dad, then yes, all will be well.

        • 1.Did Poles wage war on ISRAEL?

          How did that happen, exactly: Israel was not a state until 1948; the war ended in 1945.

          2. Was it the Polish army that started World War II?

          3. Surely you have records to show precisely what “Jewish” property was taken by Germans and what “Jewish” property was taken by Russians??

          4. Speaking of paying just debts, when will Israel pay to Iran the multibillion dollar settlement that a European court has decreed Israel owes to Iran?

          5. Does your sense of justice extend to demanding that Israel repay to American taxpayers the billions of dollars worth of military armaments stolen from US in the immediate aftermath of WWI, with which Israel armed Irgun and the Israeli state, which used the stolen materiel to destroy Palestinian Arabs? How about the millions of dollars in aircraft, intelligence, communications equipment and service that Israel has stolen from US in the past several decades? And the billions that Israel extorts from US to keep Israel from totally fubaring the Middle East to the detriment of the interests of the US people, if not their vaunted, Israel-dominated ‘elite.’

        • How about Israel compensating Palestinians for the land it has stolen throughout its existence and continues to steal today as well as Palestine’s other natural resources including water?

        • MRW says:

          How does that absolve the Israelis from returning the trillions in property that they stole from the Palestinians?

        • Citizen says:

          Gee, didn’t Germany kick off WW2 by invading Poland in 1939? And didn’t the Nazis occupy Poland in a rather severe manner? How free were the Poles under Nazi occupation?

        • kapok says:

          Well, then, obviously, Israel should be in Poland. That’ll larn ‘em!

    • kalithea says:

      “With the body of one sister draped obscenely over its front bumper, the jeep reversed for five or six metres and then rammed once again into the tractor. What might have been a tragic accident is thus revealed for what it was – a cold-blooded murder.”

      So when the jeep rammed once again…this too was an ACCIDENT!

      The IDF have a track record on covering up “accidents”, especially when Palestinian children are involved.

      link to independent.co.uk

      link to commondreams.org

      link to ynetnews.com

      And there is tons more material.

    • How dare you say such a thing to Eva? As I’m sure she’s mentioned, she has relatives who died in Auschwitz! Her grandfather, for example, fell out of a guard tower . . .

  3. pulaski says:

    Oh, Avi got there first. I was also going to call bullshit on our current resident white supremacist. Assuming it was the common AIL Storm jeep, it can easily ram and upturn a tractor (the tractors I’ve seen most Palestinian farmers using are not huge canola-harvesting combines).

    Ho hum another murder. But the IDF know how to spot the swart gevaar.

    • eee says:

      Idiot, the Sufa is based on a Jeep Wrangler. It is an armored Jeep Wrangler. How could the soldiers not have been hurt ramming head on into a tractor?

      • eljay says:

        >> It is an armored Jeep Wrangler. How could the soldiers not have been hurt ramming head on into a tractor?

        Stop focusing on the word ramming. A Jeep collided with a tractor, killing the exposed children. The soldiers were not hurt. Witnesses say it was intentional, even if it was just a “collision” instead of a “ramming”. That one word does not alter the apparent intent.

        • eee says:

          How can witnesses know if the driver lost control or it was intentional? Maybe the driver fell asleep? Witnesses cannot know these things.

        • eljay says:

          >> How can witnesses know if the driver lost control or it was intentional? Maybe the driver fell asleep? Witnesses cannot know these things.

          Don’t be coy: You clearly mean “how can Palestinian witnesses know”. If the elements of the story were reversed, you’d have no problem believing “Israeli witnesses”.

        • eee says:

          Any witness cannot know the intention of the driver.
          Remember this incident:
          link to cnn.com

          To all witnesses it seemed intentional. All they saw was a car rushing head on into a crowded market.

      • May God have mercy on your soul eee.

        • Mooser says:

          “May God have mercy on your soul eee”

          John, that’s wasted on “eee”. He’s one of that new breed, the “atheist Jew”. He believes in the Jewish Nation. He doesn’t really know why Jews, oh, excuse me, Zionist Jews are so much better than other people. It might be genetic, it might be social, but truly, does that matter? But please, don’t insult him by implying there is any God except Zionism and Israel. He might get mad, and then his speech becomes intemperate. We prefer him in the more moderate mood he’s displaying today.

      • pulaski says:

        Oh, I see, you are a 9-11 conspiracy buff. I’ll tell you about 4x4s, and you can tell me about steel melting.

  4. Frances says:

    Must we really descend into this pit of maximalist name-calling?

    Those two little girls were probably packing heat and were clearly trying to delegitimise the Israeli state. We must not jump to conclusions that may destabilise the peace process some (Israelis only) have worked so hard to foster.

    Let us all strive for peace and understanding (That is, understanding WHY Israel really must kill all these maximalist children). Peace, not destabalization.

    • eljay says:

      >> Let us all strive for peace and understanding …

      Apparently that’s what green yarn is all about! :-)

    • eee says:

      These two little girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time. An Israeli jeep accidentally veered off the road and hit them.

      But you insist on taking this incident and making it into a murder. Nice try.
      Your attempts only prove that you are an irrational hater.

      • eljay says:

        >> An Israeli jeep accidentally veered off the road and hit them.

        So, Palestinian witnesses are liars, but you – who weren’t even there – now know the absolute truth of what happened. That’s impressive.

      • Frances says:

        Peaches, if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck…. it must be an Palestinian terrorist! Fire!

        • eee says:

          You are just irrational haters and blind as well.

          The first intifada started the same way. There was a unfortunate accident in which Palestinians were killed and they spun it as murder.
          link to en.wikipedia.org
          “After a December 8 traffic incident at the Erez Crossing that killed four Palestinian refugees, rumor quickly spread that the wreck was a deliberate act of vengeance in response to the fatal stabbing of an Israeli several days earlier in the Gaza market”

        • eljay says:

          >> You are just irrational haters and blind as well.

          Stop bludgeoning me, you irrational me hater!

          I wonder why Mr. Witty hasn’t show up to encourage you to use more poetry and green (or blue) yarn and less maximalism. Oh, right, that only applies to those who are not pro-Israel.

          Well, never mind, then. As you were!

      • Mooser says:

        “These two little girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time.”

        Like all those Jews in post WW1 Germany? Like all the Jews in Spain? and England?

  5. pabelmont says:

    First the kids were in a cart behind a tractor. Second, it was hit more than once — and was deliberate murder.

    “An Israeli military spokesman confirmed two had been killed when a military vehicle hit a Palestinian tractor, while a National Police representative said the “unfortunate accident” saw two young girls, riding in a cart pulled behind the tractor, were struck.”

    As flagged above.

    By this account, the kids were riding in a CART TOWED BEHIND. surely we can all agree that a “jeep” can crush a “cart” especially if it hits it twice?

    As the principal quoted article relates:

    “With the body of one sister draped obscenely over its front bumper, the jeep reversed for five or six metres and then rammed once again into the tractor. What might have been a tragic accident is thus revealed for what it was – a cold-blooded murder.”

    • eee says:

      Yes, the story so far:
      An Israeli soldier spots a cart with two Palestinian kids.
      He says to himself, what a great opportunity to kill them.
      Then he rams the cart on purpose and then does it again.

      If you can believe such idiocy, you are quite demented.

      It was an accident, pure and simple.

      The first intifada started the same way. There was a unfortunate accident in which Palestinians were killed and they spun it as murder.
      link to en.wikipedia.org
      “After a December 8 traffic incident at the Erez Crossing that killed four Palestinian refugees, rumor quickly spread that the wreck was a deliberate act of vengeance in response to the fatal stabbing of an Israeli several days earlier in the Gaza market”

      You just keep repeating the same blood libels and falsehoods.

      • eljay says:

        >> Yes, the story so far:

        The story so far:
        - A tractor carrying a Palestinian family and pulling a cart with children behind it
        - The tractor is driving 15m off the roadway.
        - A passing armored Israeli Jeep somehow” ends up 15m off the roadway and collides with the tractor/cart, killing two children.
        - Witnesses say the Jeep deliberately drove off the road.
        - An Israeli military spokesman and a National Police representative say it was an accident.

        It was “purely and simply” neither an accident nor murder. Much remains unknown about what happened. But somehow you’ve determined that the Palestinian witnesses are liars and the two Israelis are telling the truth.

        • eee says:

          Witnesses in these cases are not reliable.
          Remember this case?
          link to cnn.com

          To any bystander the crash would look intentional. All he would see is a a car plowing into a market while accelerating. How could he not deem it intentional?

        • eljay says:

          >> Witnesses in these cases are not reliable.

          There were Palestinian witnesses and two Israeli witnesses. You, presumably, were not on the scene. How, then, are you so unshakeably certain that it was an accident?

        • eljay says:

          >> How, then, are you so unshakeably certain that it was an accident?

          eee, just in case you plan to ask me how I’m so sure it was inentional, let me spare you the effort and state that I’m not certain that it was intentional. Not only do I disregard the more inflammatory article, but the closest I ever got to suggesting intent was this comment in an earlier post:
          Witnesses say it was intentional, even if it was just a “collision” instead of a “ramming”. That one word does not alter the apparent intent.

          Note that I refer to the testimony of the witnesses and to the apparent intent behind the incident.

        • eee says:

          Eljay,

          I would have written nothing if the stand of Eva was not that this was surely a murder. That is a ridiculous stand that is not supported by the evidence.

        • eljay says:

          >> I would have written nothing if the stand of Eva was not that this was surely a murder. That is a ridiculous stand that is not supported by the evidence.

          Just a couple of points (not intended as an attack against you):
          - Eva posted the article, but did not make any comment prior to your first post.
          - In your first post, you concluded that “The only probable explanation is that the Jeep did not ram the tractor, it probably side swiped it.” (Neither in her article or in the one I linked to later is it clear that the incident was an accident. The only way you can conclude that with any certainty, given the facts in those articles, is to dismiss the claims of the Palestinian witnesses as lies and accept those of the Israeli witnesses as facts.)
          - You then proceeded to direct an unprovoked non-sequitur at her: “By the way Eva, you never told me when the Poles plan to return all the property they took from the Jews after WWII.”

          Not exactly a style of argument that garners support. :-)

        • ahmed says:

          Oh, it was a TOYOTA jeep!

        • marc b. says:

          you miss the point, eljay. eva was irresponsible because an aggressive, impartial investigation into possible wrongdoing is being conducted as I type. I can see the profusion of sweat and furrowed brows as investigators anguish over the deaths of palestinian children. ‘why are the palestinians such an accident-prone people?’, the lead detective laments. ‘woe, unto them, for truly they have been abandoned by their G_d!’ and truth will out. it always does in the only democracy in the ME.

        • eljay says:

          >> you miss the point, eljay. eva was irresponsible because an aggressive, impartial investigation into possible wrongdoing is being conducted as I type.

          I’m sensing a little sarcasm there… ;-)

          Anyway, even I’m a little suspicious of the later report, in which the violence is much more graphic.
          ————————————————-
          April 29: An Israeli military jeep collided with a tractor carrying a Palestinian family, killing two young girls and injuring their father and brother on Thursday, witnesses said.
          . . .
          Locals told the regional popular committee that the incident was an “act of willful killing by the occupation forces,” reporting that the tractor was in fact 15 meters away from the the highway where the Israeli military vehicle was driving.
          ————————————————-
          May 5: The children had climbed into the “basket” on the ground at the rear of the tractor, ready to be lifted up. Emad was preparing to start the motor when an Israeli military jeep swerved off the road, at speed, and rammed into the tractor from behind. … With the body of one sister draped obscenely over its front bumper, the jeep reversed for five or six metres and then rammed once again into the tractor. What might have been a tragic accident is thus revealed for what it was – a cold-blooded murder.
          ————————————————-
          Did the witnesses suddenly remember things they didn’t remember before? Are they mis-remembering things? In my opinion, there isn’t definitive evidence that it was done on purpose. True, it does seem odd that the Jeep travelled 15m off the highway to collide with the tractor but, well, I just don’t know. Not enough to say for sure it was intentional. And that, of course, is just my opinion.

        • eee says:

          Eljay,

          If the driver fell asleep, it takes only a split second to veer 15 meters of the road. If the Jeep was going 60 km/h then it takes less than a second to go 15 meters. (60 km/h is 16.66 meters/second)

        • marc b. says:

          eljay, accidents happen. i don’t have any definitive information either that would prove whether the deaths were the result of accident or intent. i also don’t have any faith that the result of an impartial investigation, if conducted, would be publicized if intent were the finding.

        • When you’ve seen Palestinian kids shot at with live ammunition with your own eyes in the West Bank when the lives of the Israeli soldiers were not in anyway in danger you tend to form a different opinion.

          Furthermore, Israeli and Palestinian human rights organisations have documented the trigger-happy behaviour of Israeli soldiers for decades..and it’s only getting worse.

        • MRW says:

          May 5: The children had climbed into the “basket” on the ground at the rear of the tractor, ready to be lifted up. Emad was preparing to start the motor when an Israeli military jeep swerved off the road, at speed, and rammed into the tractor from behind. … With the body of one sister draped obscenely over its front bumper, the jeep reversed for five or six metres and then rammed once again into the tractor. What might have been a tragic accident is thus revealed for what it was – a cold-blooded murder.

          Asleep at the wheel in broad daylight?

        • Frances says:

          You’re being so unreasonable, Mooser. The most moral army in the world can’t help it if a tiny proportion of its members are narcoleptics with little spatial intelligence. Just like they can’t help it if a tiny proportion of their members suffer involuntary muscle spasms when their fingers touch a trigger while aiming at Palestinian children. Those damn kids shouldn’t be so accident-prone, it’s all part of a smear campaign to discredit the democratic gay paradise, the light unto the nations.

        • Dickerson linked to an article that contained this explanation for what may have been an understandable lapse in judgment of members of the most moral army in the world.

          The entire problem, it seems, revolves around Israel’s inability to solve this problem: How does Israel teach three generations of its citizens and soldiers that Arabs are “animals” that they must “kill, kill, kill” and still be able to assume the roles of “normal human beings.”

          Arnon Soffer has spent years advising the government on the “demographic threat” posed by the Arabs. The Haifa university geographer paints a bleak vision of how he sees the Gaza strip a generation after Israel’s withdrawal.

          “When 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it’s going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today, with the aid of an insane fundamentalist Islam. The pressure at the border will be awful. It’s going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day,” he told the Jerusalem Post.

          “If we don’t kill, we will cease to exist. The only thing that concerns me is how to ensure that the boys and men who are going to have to do the killing will be able to return home to their families and be normal human beings.”

        • eljay says:

          >> eee: If the driver fell asleep …

          Yes, “IF” he did. But there’s no evidence to say he did.

          >> marc b.: accidents happen. i don’t have any definitive information … i also don’t have any faith that the result of an impartial investigation, if conducted, would be publicized if intent were the finding.

          Fair enough.

          >> Miss Dee Mena: When you’ve seen Palestinian kids shot at with live ammunition with your own eyes … you tend to form a different opinion.

          I agree. I haven’t seen that, so I can only say that the facts are not conclusive. My personal opinion, based solely on the information in the articles, is that the soldiers intentionally drove off the road and hit the tractor.

          - Did they mean to kill the girls or just hurt them? Dunno.
          - Did the back up the jeep and strike the tractor again? I doubt it.
          - Did the soldiers fall asleep at the wheel and accidentally drive 15m off the road and strike a bunch of Palestinians in a tractor? I highly doubt it.

          But this is just my opinion.

    • Mooser says:

      I can’t understand why the invariably conciliatory and moderating comments of “eee” have not convinced everyone here that the IDF would never, ever do such a thing! “Eee” his very own self is the livink testimony to the pacific character of Israel.

      And you’re all a bunch of whores and anti-semites and irrational haters!
      Christians parading as Jews in a drug induced stupor!

      Oh yeah, we got us a healthy one here! But I still don’t think “eee” is a Jewish name. “eeestein” or “eeeiwitz”, maybe. Of course, it might have been shortened at Eliis Island.

      • Frances says:

        “I can’t understand why the invariably conciliatory and moderating comments of “eee” have not convinced everyone here that the IDF would never, ever do such a thing! “Eee” his very own self is the livink testimony to the pacific character of Israel.

        And you’re all a bunch of whores and anti-semites and irrational haters!
        Christians parading as Jews in a drug induced stupor!

        Oh yeah, we got us a healthy one here! But I still don’t think “eee” is a Jewish name. “eeestein” or “eeeiwitz”, maybe. Of course, it might have been shortened at Eliis Island. ”

        Abraham Foxman? Is that you? Oh my gawd, y’all.

        • eee says:

          If you have not noticed, I respect all posters until they disrespect me. You want to attack me personally? Go ahead, I will not complain nor will I report you, but I will certainly pay you back in your own coin. So Mooser, continue with your lies.

        • Mooser says:

          “Eee” I could never, in a million years, hurt you the way reading your comments hurts me, although I try to hide it under a pose of sarcasm and irony and stale puns. If it makes you feel any better, your comments have made me cry out to the Lord, “This, this is our “Jewish Nation, for christ’s goddam sake, is that the best You can do?”
          And the answer always come back “Don’t blame Me, Kiddo, after all “eee” doesn’t!”

          So you win, “eee”! I admit it, you can do much more to convince people that Jews aren’t fit to live with other people, and are a danger to all they come in contact with, and are damned unpleasant, to boot! That’s what you came to do, and you are doing a damned good job of it. I can’t compete, and I know it.

        • eee says:

          Get off your high horse or moose or whatever.
          Fending off slander and libel thrown at fellow Israelis is a mitsvah. That you are willing to accept without any evidence that an Israeli soldier intentionally murdered two kids shows that you are quite sick.

          Also, it is not healthy to talk to God too much, especially since he doesn’t exist. Why don’t you make aliyah, join the IDF and make sure the people around you act like you want instead of writing stale jokes on a blog?

        • Cliff says:

          No it doesn’t. You simply impose an unrealistic level of skepticism upon others.

          So if the reports say witnesses think the incident was intentional, and if we put the act in context w/ other acts throughout the history of the conflict, then it’s REASONABLE to lean towards thinking the Israelis are guilty.

          That’s just a normal reaction, to judge before knowing all the minute details.

          What you are doing, is the opposite. You always assume your racist, apartheid, vandal State is innocent of the charges.

          Being the total scumbag, pathological lying coward that you are it is unsurprising.

          You only see poor poor Jewish State, with its inherent and arbitrary right to exist (at the expense of the indigenous Palestinians), irrationally criticized.

          You’re nothing but a White Supremacist who happens to be Jewish.

          You belong in prison w/ the rest of the IDF butchers. Pathetic. Why don’t you fight an army of equal power rather than children, you freak.

        • Mooser, first thing this morning I promised myself I would NOT post on Mondoweiss — need to break the addiction/fascination.

          But I gotta tell you, your post at 11:05 am touched my soul.

          Some guy named Liulevicius does a series of lectures titled, “Utopia and Terror,” about the causes for the murderous 20th century. He remarked at one point that one counterbalance to the horror was the use of humor to deflate the hatemongers. That is your gift, Mooser.

          It’s amazing to me how important this community is, and how the humanity of many commenters glows.

          Even if I think Phil is seriously deluded if he thinks Jerry Muller’s book on capitalism is capital, Ya done good, Phil.

        • MRW says:

          I concur, PG.

  6. eljay says:

    >> If you have not noticed, I respect all posters until they disrespect me.

    No, you have not respected all posters. I kept my side of the discussion polite – even jocund – but you threw the first punch with “why don’t you wake up and put your irrational hatred under control?”

    (At least you spared me the “anti-semite” and “Israel-hater” epithets.)

    • eee says:

      You are right and I apologize. It is not an excuse, but I have been answering to quite a few people and of course I am human and make mistakes.

      • eljay says:

        No sweat. :-)

      • Mooser says:

        ” I am human and make mistakes.”

        Oh, don’t sell yourself short like that “eee”! You’re part of The Jewish Nation! Hell, You Are The Jewish Nation!
        Don’t demote yourself to a mere human, it is an insult to your Zionist compatriots!
        Remember, “eee” you are fighting for Israel’s honor! Which is more than…., well, you know the rest.

      • Mooser says:

        “If you have not noticed, I respect all posters until they disrespect me.

        Nah, “eee” I just read the thread over carefully. Actually, you don’t.
        The most shocking thing, really, is how unaware you are of your projection. But if you want to ruin our reputation for intelligence as well as manners, have at it. Like I said, I’ll never be able to compete.
        And of coss, you have the innate and inordinate advantage: I’m just one Jewish guy, whereas you, you are The Jewish Nation! I ain’t got a chance.
        Or maybe I’m just “parading as a Jewess in a drug-induced stupor” Hey, thanks, “eee” you have just given a great idea to improve my drag act!

  7. I’m fairly new to this site but have been observing it for a while. Having lived and worked in the West Bank and Gaza for about seven years I would have to say that eee is the most boring, stupid, vapid, irrational, racist and insatiable attention whore ever. I’ve never seen a cretin spout such bullshit. I can only guess you enjoy toying with the attention-seeking troll.

    Personally I can suffer trolls if they have triple digit IQs, are witty or fun but he is none of this and just basically a waste of space. I wouldn’t even bother disturbing one of my neurons to respond to his drivel.

    • Mooser says:

      Miss Dee Mena: Phil and Adam stated long ago they would not police the comment section. And they don’t. If these things bother you, I suggest Jews Sans frontieres, where Mark Elf does engage commentors and won’t tolerate “liars, timewasters or bigots”. In any case, I’m always glad to plug JSF, it’s a good blog, and covers anti-Zionism from a British viewpoint, the author being based in London.

      • Mooser says:

        Sorry, got diverted. Anyway, we are not toying with “eee”, he is toying with us! Why I bet thousands of Jewish and Christian Zonists gain new inspiration, vow to re-double their efforts, and find new pride in themselves and the Zionist project every time “eee” opens his yap.
        And if dogs would try a new brand instead of always returning to their own, we would have an infinite source of pet food.

    • welcome Miss Dee Mena.
      I think I love you.
      could you return the favor to one who struggled with a non-Nobel-range mere-double-digit IQ?

    • eee says:

      Yet in fact you devote your one neuron to write a post which is just one long ad-hominem attack. Why don’t you take your own advice?

      • Mooser says:

        “Why don’t you take your own advice?”

        Nah, I don’t want to poison my poor old dog. But you are welcome to come back to it each day and lap it up.

      • Cliff says:

        This is hilarious.

        Every new user to the blog, acknowledges what a total loser you are 3e.

        Think of new hasbara BS to pollute the blog with. Your act is getting boring.

    • eljay says:

      >> I’m fairly new to this site but … I would have to say that eee is the most boring, stupid, vapid, irrational, racist and insatiable attention whore ever. … I can suffer trolls if they have triple digit IQs, are witty or fun but he is none of this and just basically a waste of space.

      There is a Witty on this site, but he’s really not all that “witty”. And, with all due respect, why would you want your first post to consist of an attack on eee rather than, say, information which might contradict his position? Just curious.

      • eljay I have posted already on other pages in regard to subjects where I wanted to contribute. Perhaps you missed those. That particular post was the result of an opinion formed after a substantial amount of time.

        I don’t waste my time with attention-seeking trolls who have no credibility in my eyes and who are totally irrational like that thing is.

  8. Mooser…the thing doesn’t bother me as I pay no attention to it other than to read your responses to it. I just think the comments feeds its insatiable attention whoring inclinations and encourage it.

    • eee says:

      MDM,

      So you called me a “boring, stupid, vapid, irrational, racist and insatiable attention whore ever” without reading my comments? You made up your mind about me just reading Mooser’s comments to my posts? Nice. You are quite demented.

      • Cliff says:

        3e, she read your comments. Then she came to her own conclusions.

      • Mooser says:

        “You are quite demented”

        Miss Demena, if you don’t speak Israeli, I’ll translate: He’s asking you for a date.
        When he starts threatening murder, you’ll know he’s looking for something permanent. Old modern Israeli custom.

    • Mooser says:

      Miss Dee Mena, as far as I know, all we can do is press the “report abuse” button, and maybe put something in the little box.
      And as far as reading my response, don’t waste your time. Why read the blathering of one poor, dumb (but moderately good looking, when seen sideways, several decades ago) old Jewish guy, when “eee” represents the Jewish Nation?

  9. I read your posts Mooser because I find you intelligent and witty
    and you make me laugh. Hope that is ok with you.

    • Mooser says:

      “I read your posts Mooser because I find you intelligent and witty
      and you make me laugh.”

      Seek help immediately! Do you want to end up in a drug-induced stupor, parading as a Jewess? If so, let’s go out clubbing this Saturday night!
      I’ll show you how it’s done!

      • first it’s the humus, then cherry tomatoes, now Mooser is muscling in, claiming first rights to Miss Dee Mena’s attentions.

        MY declaration of deep-felt, genuine, eternal love is time-stamped 11:24; best you can do is 11:46!

        The girl is MINE!

        • Mooser says:

          Okay, I withdraw my suit!
          Besides, PG, my intentions were honorable. I just wanted some make-up and hair-do hints.
          Actually, my drag act is coming along well. It’s male-impersonation which really gives me a hard time.

        • if it’s male impersonation you’re working on, you better draw that suit back on.

  10. Mooser says:

    “Having lived and worked in the West Bank and Gaza…”

    As usual, Miss De Mena, I missed the most significant phrase in your comment! As you have personal experience in the area, as do many of the other commentors, I hope you will continue to comment, and I’m looking forward to it.

  11. rosahill says:

    I saw something very similar when I was in Hebron 5 years ago. A Palestinian man and a very small child — maybe two years old — crossing a wide intersection near Kiryat Arba. An IDF jeep approached the intersection. The man and child continued to cross over. The jeep headed directly at them, coming very close and swerving away only after I stepped in front of them. The bitterness on the man’s face was palpable.

  12. demize says:

    I’m relatively new around here so I say this with respect; it seems as you are being intentionally derailed by minutea. The bottom line is this Military should NOT BE THERE! If they were not where they don’t belong this wouldn’t have happened.

    • quite right, demize;

      The bottom line is this Military should NOT BE THERE!

      I suspect most commenters here recognize that posts like eee’s are an attempt to obscure that fundamental truth by derailing, distorting, disturbing, distressing, dementing.

      In Iraq’s war on Iran, Iraq salted fields with landmines to ensnare Iranians from defending the main target; Iran had no means of clearing the mines — they tried sending animals into the field to detonate the mines but the animals quickly fled. Eventually, Iran sent children as human landmine detonators. How horrible is that? Iran sent its young treasures to clear the field so that the ‘big guns’ could be preserved to use against the main target.

      I think about those little children, and I realize my own impotence to be a ‘big gun,’ capable of destroying a major enemy emplacement. But I can clear a few landmines.
      In the process, I’ve learned a thing or two about the mentality that would place those landmines — about the mental habits of an eee or yonira or julian: they are sneaky, cowardly, viciously destructive.
      We — or at least I — fight back, even against their minutae, for a number of reasons:
      to let thugs like eee know that they do not have an open field to practice their hate;
      to expose the structure and function of the mindset, and perhaps even the organized offices and institutions that support commenters like eee, yonira, julian — it’s not at all unlikely that they are part of one or another group underwritten by the Israeli government, as is WUJS, underwriter of Hasbara manual. Israel has used flechettes http //livewire dot amnesty.org/2009/01/27/a-bloodstained-wall-full-of-flechettes/ against civilians in Gaza, and cluster bombs against civilians in Lebanon in 2006 http //www dot atfl.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=116:bomblets&catid=44:latest-causes&Itemid=88. Why should we not expect that a system that has descended to that level of barbarity would not also sponsor human ‘cluster bomblets’ to confound an online army of resistance?

      We fight back even if it seems futile because hate should not go unopposed.

      • eee says:

        Psycho,

        You are writing on a blog. That is one level below painting a mural.
        You want to fight, go to Washington and actually lobby somebody.
        Pathetic.

        • Mooser says:

          You tell him, “eee”! Goddamit, at least there is somebody around here who will defend the Jewish faith! God bless you, boychik!

        • Mooser says:

          I can’t help it if these professional obtusians around this place here can’t the truth what is staring them down in the mouth:

          If those two kids had emerged alive from that basket, Hitler might as well have won WW2. Hitler and the Commies!

        • tree says:

          You are writing on a blog. …
          Pathetic.

          Oooh. Classic pot kettle-ism.

        • eee says:

          You are so off the mark. I am enjoying myself. Blogging is just another form of entertainment. Psycho thinks he is fighting a holy war or something similar.

        • Mooser says:

          “I am enjoying myself.”
          So you don’t give a good husky fuck if you repulse people, people who otherwise might be supporters of Israel or Zionism. It’s just all about you having a good time? Okay, nice to know.

          Oh Brave New Jew, that has such screechings in it!

        • that’s amusing, eee.
          Actually, what I DO do, is go to J Street meetings and other such assemblages in my sphere.

          I hear this at J Street: “A bunch of Jewish billionaires, Jewish elites, are supporting the zionist state and AIPAC. They have a lot of money to spread around to influence US Congress. They make the world think ALL Jews think the way AIPAC/the billionaires think. That’s not True!!”

          So here’s what the J Streeters urge people to do: YOU go tell Congress, “Don’t listen to THOSE Jews, listen to US Jews. THOSE Jews are giving US Jews a bad name….”

          From my point of view, that’s pretty inefficient, politically immature, and it’s pretty childish. First the childish part — running to tell the guv’mint is the equivalent of “I’m telling mommie on you.” Childish.

          Politically immature: two feuding entities who can’t solve their own problems within the organization/tribe. It’s like Cain having a beef with Abel and instead of Cain going to Abel and saying, “Stop doing that crap, you’re giving our family a bad name,” Cain pays Rahab to go the the governor of Jericho to persuade the governor of Jericho not to listen to what Abel says but to listen to what Cain says. I suppose it’s a step up from Cain killing Abel, so at least we can give J Street props from learning from experience what don’t work so good.

          Inefficient — If J Street is upset that AIPAC misrepresents the majority of Jews, and if J Street KNOWS who those kosher Daddy Warbucks are who are financing that misrepresentation that is putting ALL Jews in such a terribly undeserved bad light, why not keep it in the family, approach the billionaires, tell them to stop their bad behavior or they’re out of the tribe? Works for Catholics — pope made a king cool his jets in the snow, fer god’s sake. Whatsa matter, buncha Jews can’t do what one little Deigo pope did, bring one or two billionaire Jewish princes to heel? Wimps.

          And eee, look who’s talkin’ “want to fight.” If your opponent is any more threatening than a Palestinian 5-year old, you go running to MY uncle, Sam, for more bigger bombs to make his back down.

          You wanna fight? reform your own sick culture; that’s a battle worthy of your crabbed talents.

        • demize says:

          I don’t disagree with you in the slightest. Evil should vehemently opposed whenever or however encountered. Adding insult to injury is a component of a larger evil, it minimizes and insults simotaneously and I admire those who have the patience to consistantly rhetorically oppose those who engage in it. I was just pointing out a simple truism that is simple to understand for even people who aren’t immersed in these issues: if ya ain’t there you don’t get sniped at. In other words, if your Military an settelers weren’t where they don’t belong then these atrocities wouldn’t occur and your soldiers wouldn’t be injured when people resist. And people always resist. But I suppose they know this. And yes Information Warfare or Psychological Operations are something most modern Military/Intelligence States employ.

  13. Danaa says:

    The irritant known as eee is no more. He will be sorely missed [not]. He seems to have outdone even his most nefarious self on this thread and, as a result, is believed to have been returned to the nether-ether world from whence he came. I hope the outcry of the multitudes at his absence will be bearable (Mooser, you’ll be OK, right?). Alas, in this cyber world, the respite may not last. Let’s enjoy it while we can. Personally, I’d love to go back to fighting with Donald over the essence of duality (hey, if Chomsky wants in too, I’m game. Jeffrey lesson plans…you know). Without the eee-ruptions, that may yet happen. Worse come to worst, we can do a bang-up job just fighting over the true nature vs nurture of BDS.

    • “The irritant known as eee is no more.”

      Danaa
      I hope you’re right but my feeling is that he will be back under another name, another IP address. The guys are professionals. I’ve been dealing with them for 4 years now, they always come back with new tricks. Besides they have unlimited means provided to them by a specific agency within the gov’t.

  14. MHughes976 says:

    You’d think that professionals wouldn’t be so unsubtle. Maybe professional propagandists can’t actually listen to argument, or venture away from their sheltering barrage of wild abuse, or they’d be in danger of seeing the truth.
    Glad to see that Danaa can revert to being addressed respectfully as befits the legitimate Queen of Mycenae.