Don't ever use Nazi analogies, right? No. When I went to Gaza, all I could think of was the Warsaw Ghetto, and the effect on the Jewish psyche of that humiliation, and the need to impose the same experience on others. You cannot understand the occupation without looking at the cycle of abuse. Here is the president of Central European U of Budapest, Yehuda Elkana, formerly a prof of history and philosophy of science at Hebrew U, speaking to the Times of India:
A holocaust survivor, who came out of Nazi ( Auschwitz) concentration camps, Yehuda Elkana said that he is against Israel's occupation of Palestine. "When I came out of the camp and settled in Israel I had decided that what happened in Nazi Germany should never happen to Jews again. At the same time, I wished that the same brutality should not be unleashed on others. And hence, I believe that Palestinians should be protected from Israel's occupations as the violence is no less brutal than Nazi occupation," said Elkana. According to him, Palestinian suicide bombers and Israeli occupants are born out of the same mould.
“When I came out of the camp … I wished that the same brutality should not be unleashed on others.”
Pssst, eljay, maybe you should explain to this guy what “Remember the Holocaust” really means. He clearly doesn’t get it.
>> Pssst, eljay, maybe you should explain to this guy what “Remember the Holocaust” really means. He clearly doesn’t get it.
I don’t think there’s any point. I mean, he’s obviously an Israel-hating, self-loathing Jew, and he probably wouldn’t appreciate the fact that sometimes “negotiation” justifies the “necessary” use of ethnic cleansing to realize “a good in the world”.
Hedy Epstein, Reuven Moskowitz and now this guy – won’t these Holocaust survivors ever learn?
Gaza and the Warsaw Ghetto
same place
different time
while the world stands by
genocide*
live
*the only difference is that the genocide is slow motion style in Gaza, whereas in the Warsaw Ghetto it was fast track
It’s funny: We’re always told that Israel is essentially acting out of … reaction. E.g., no, they wouldn’t be treating the Palestinians like this but for the way the Palestinians have behaved, or the way Gaza behaved, or etc.
In the J-Post however, linked to below, was an interesting story regarding an indisputably powerless group, the Bedouin. Talks about how the BDS movement is using the official treatment of these folks to cut off support for the Jewish National Fund which “buys” land. And while the author of the article is bad enough in being against such a BDS move saying “engagement” is better, one has to get a load of the comments in this biggest Israeli paper about these poor defenseless people.
A quote from what is possibly the *gentlest* of such comments:
“The Bedouin are human just as we are. I know many of them and they are extremely gentle…. But let us face the truth. We are at war with them for control over the land of Israel. … We must win or perish.”
Like I say … this is just about the *gentlest* comment. Any number of the others, in one way or another, are inevitably concerned with just how bloody procreative those lousy Bedu are….
Anyway, so much for argument that milk, honey and the love of one’s fellow man just naturally be runs wild through Israeli’ veins.
The link to the story and comments:
link to jpost.com
>> “The Bedouin are human just as we are. … But let us face the truth. We are at war with them for control over the land of Israel. … We must win or perish.”
>> Anyway, so much for argument that milk, honey and the love of one’s fellow man just naturally be runs wild through Israeli’ veins.
The way I understand it from eee, the Bedouin have a wonderful opportunity to “negotiate” with Israel. If they fail to “negotiate” appropriately – that is, to give Israel what it wants – Israel will simply take it.
Ethnic cleansing may or may not be “necessary” in order to secure “a further good in the world” but, if it is, at some point it will be “currently not necessary”, at which time everyone will be able to feel good about that.
At least they have a wonderful opportunity to show how Resiliant and Energetic and whatever-the-other-thing-was they are. Now is their chance to make some better wheels and raft down the river of thingybob to whatsit while avoiding that rock/obelisk of I’m running out of liberal Zionist drivel.
They’re Bedouin Arabs, dammit! Why don’t they understand that they are supposed to fold their tents and silently steal away?
A modern state cannot support nomadic life styles. I don’t see any Native Americans roaming the great plains. Do you support their right to do so?
so are you gonna set up railroads so you can massacre em with long guns? or are you going for the smallpox in the blankets?
Stop givin’ them more ideas…….
eee wrote:
“A modern state cannot support nomadic life styles.”
But eee, that wasn’t the question in the article I linked to at all. Not one little bit. Indeed it’s the opposite as the hottest issue is the Israeli destruction of the little communities where the Bedouin *have* settled and set down roots.
Ironically, indeed, it might be said that Israel seems to want to actually be *creating* “nomads,” can’t it? I.e., by making these people homeless, and presumably they thereby wander off to somewhere else outside of Israel.
Plus of course the (previously nomadic) way of life of these people was also not at all the subject of the comments to the article either. Instead it is in fact their very *existence* which obviously what worries and indeed galls those readers. So much so, as I noted, that about the gentlest commentator felt it necessary to remind his fellow jews that oh yeah, remember that these are “human just like we are,” remember? Even if he then felt it necessary to say that he was still “at war” with them based on nothing but their very presence….
So what’s the opposite of the term “judenrein” anyway? And with no Bedouin mufti, how to blame them for the Holocaust and justify those commentator’s obvious wishes to ethnically cleanse Israel of them?
I don’t see any Native Americans roaming the great plains.
obviously you haven’t been around.
eee ~ bollocks. Native title over designated areas in Australia has enabled indigenous Australians to live an autonomous lifestyle and mix traditional/western ways as they see fit . The concept of aboriginal title is not unique to Australia.
Oh yeah, don’t be shy now – stop avoiding this question of mine. You said it, all I’m asking is: why?
“I don’t see any Native Americans roaming the great plains.”
Why is it that so many Israel supporters have what can only be described as genocide envy? Especially given the previous horrific intersection of Jews and genocide.
Sheesh, just because European/American disease and politics nearly exterminated a continent full of people doesn’t give Israel the right to do that now to the Palestinians.
“genocide envy”
And that one goes right up there with annie’s “Kvetchistan”.
A modern state cannot support nomadic life styles.
eee,
El-Arakib seems to be pretty stationary to me. FYI, the British mandatory administration took great exception to the majority UNSCOP committee’s careless use of statistics regarding so-called “nomads”. The UNSCOP members had deliberately chosen to exclude the impact of the entire Bedouin population and their assets on the plan of partition. They did that based upon the erroneous assumption that the Bedouins were “nomads”. In fact, they had been settled on the land for generations and were responsible for the cultivation of over two million dunams of land devoted to cereal grain production. At the time, the entire Jewish community only owned about 4.9 million dunams themselves. The government had the RAF conduct an aerial photographic survey that is still useful today in establishing the pre-state existence of Beduoin communities. On 1 November 1947 the British representative turned over the results to the UNSCOP committees. The resident Bedouin population data was revised upwards to 127,000. The RAF counted 3,389 houses and 8,722 tents. The British report explained that Bedouins had been settled on the land for generations and that they were known as Beersheba Bedouins due to the land rights they held in that district. The report said that 105, 000 Bedouins should be added to the number of Arabs who normally resided in the area of the proposed Jewish state. When that was done, the UNSCOP committees reported that
See paragraphs 62-64 on pdf file pages 40-42 of A/AC.14/32, 11 November 1947 @ link to un.org
Formatting on iPhone = fail, take 2….
A modern state cannot support nomadic life styles. I don’t see any Native Americans roaming the great plains.
Don’t get out much do you? Inuit in Canada, numerous central & northern indigenous people from Australia (some elsewhere in Australia but more so there) Amazonian tribes in Brazil etc etc
Do you support their right to do so?
Of course I do, which is why I campaigned for Native Title rights and continue to campaign to make them stronger. Of course I never got a chance to campaign against refusing members of the Kulin nation (I’m in Sth East Oz obviously) the vote, or against laws barring them from certain areas or from marrying whomever they chose because by the time I’d got here those things were considered vile racist vestiges of the past.
Israel STILL does those things, feel free to object to that anytime soon
eee, please go back to hasbara school. You haven’t even passed first grade yet. Repeating the most feeble of hasbara ‘defences’ is not much good when they fall apart at the most cursory examination. Not knowing about the history of your country or its current policies is also a bit of a handicap. Must try harder.
Professor Elkana’s testimony as to the intensity and relentlessness of the violence of occupation is very impressive, considering all his experience. I don’t entirely follow his logic in saying that the suicide bombers and the occupiers come from the same mould. If the occupiers are in truth perpetrating, as according to his solemn word they are, violence fully (fully: he makes no reservation and offers no excuse for what the occupiers do) comparable to that of the Nazis, then in principle resistance to them must be as legitimate as the resistance that arose in WW2 Europe. It’s perhaps true that all resistance movements become morally tainted and corrupt. But it’s still not true that those driven to and beyond the moral extreme by the relentless, fearsomely organised violence of others are in the same position who are, without excuse, perpetrating that violence. They manifestly don’t come from the same mould or the same formative experiences.
Thank you for shedding some well-needed light on the situation. We need more people like you to speak up about the occupation!