Hark, my fellow Americans. This is amazing, and a sign of the sea change in Israel's image, and also a bit scary. Pat Meehan is a Republican congressman from Pennsylvania, 55, chairman of the House Homeland Security Subcommittee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence. In a post titled "Traveling to Israel" 10 days ago, he announced that he was headed to Israel, on that trip "sponsored by the American Israel Education Fund," an arm of AIPAC.
Well, check out some of the 154 comments on his posting. Incredible. I went from the top, the most popular posts. People get it. I say scary, because there's so much unfocused rage here. Notice the anti-Semitism. New Jewsey. Another reason the media have an obligation to start talking about the Israel lobby, because some people really do want to set up guillotines. Thanks to Annie.
[Michael Rivero] .... No government can serve two masters, and a government that serves Israel cannot serve the American people. A friend to Israel is no friend of America. America needs leaders who will put America first, second, and third. Please remember who you are supposed to work for and represent. This election I am making it my one mission that every politician who screams about how much they love Israel will be voted out of office, so that they free to go live there for the rest of their lives.
another:
Well, it's not like you have anything more important to do in your own country. We're so lucky to have misrepresentatives like you that put the agenda of another country before the needs of your own people who elected you to office and pay your salary. We know you need a vacation from accepting campaign contributions from mega-corporations, Wall St and Israel. We will be happy to accommodate you all. All the dual citizens, Israel-firsters, endless war and occupation supporters, transnationalists, open border...
another:
I agree with you fully Mike Rivero! I don't know how someone could get elected to kindergarten dogcatcher who could not see the obvious conflict of interest in going to israel-----free or not. Bad (good?) things happen on those trips. NJ Governor McGreevey got a gay lover who turned out to be a mossad agent on one of those trips! McGreevey loved his mossad sexionage lover so much he brought him back to NJ to make him Home Land Insecurity Director of New Jewsey!...
another:
Why are you sucking up to an apartheid state like Israel. They treat others as second class citizens. The Israeli government is racist. They put Palestinians in the same kind of "townships" that the South African government put the black citizens in. Israel has nuclear weapons but will not acknowledge it and will not sign the Nuclear Non Proliferation Agreement. They refuse to allow inspection of their nuclear facilities in accordance with international law. No one can serve two governments. To which do you owe allegiance.
another:
I find it despicable that members of this government spend time fawning over Israel and sucking the teat of AIPAC when veterans in this country are sleeping in the street, infrastructure is crumbling, and jobs are being offshored faster than you can say "your unemployment benefits are running out next week." Your allegiance to a foreign power whose interests are not those of the US is treasonous. Out with you!
another:
Ron Paul did not go to israel, he is too concerned about our own country. Imagine that, actually doing the job the people voted him in for.
another:
Your trip to Israel is despicable and proves you and others (pretty mouch our entire Congress) are slaves to Israel and their nefarious lobbies. Why don't you spend the time speaking with your constituents and figuring how to help America rather than the racist, warmongering ethnocractic nation, Israel. Public patience has run out and Congress has been exposed for it really is....a puppet for Israel.
Good. Let the good news ring. Tell it like it is. Call a spade a spade, call the Israeli government an anti-human-rights, oppressive, lawless, dangerous, knee-jerk-reckless danger to peace in its region. I’ve thought about it and said it On-retroactively-abandoning-all-knowledge-of-good-and-evil.php.
An, on an arguably relevant note: A jew ruminates on being BIG & JEWISH & suddenly in negative limelight with a goy audience: link to t.co
Besides AIPAC/AIEF, other Israel junkets congressmen have gone on have been sponsored by (this is a full list from legistorm.org) the American Jewish Committee, Anti-Defamation League, the Brookings Institution, Center for Middle East Peace & Economic Cooperation, Friends of the Israel Defense Forces, IDT Corp., the Jewish Community Relations Council, Makhteshim Agan, New America Foundation, Project Interchange, the Republican Jewish Coalition, numerous local Jewish Federations (especially Chicago), Tel Aviv University, Telos Group, United Jewish Appeals, and the World Jewish Congress.
It is unfortunate that many of the congressman’s comments were antisemitic, but from many of the organizations on the list above it would appear that many in the Jewish community have moved beyond philanthropy, anti-defamation work, or Judaic studies — into pure Zionist advocacy. If we Jews can’t (or won’t) make a distinction between Judaism and Zionism, how the hell do we expect David Duke, the Aryan Nation, or the Grand Kleagle to?
And, i”f we Jews can’t (or won’t) make a distinction between Judaism and Zionism, how the hell do we expect” the man-on-the-Arab-street, not a philosopher king, just a guy with a well-justified gripe to make the distinction?
This was never a winning argument, tho, sadly. Mom to son-the-Israeli-warrior, “Why should the Palestinians want to hurt you? what have you ever done to him?” They just don’t get it.
And not just moms, either. (Sorry mom!)
I think you hit on a bigger issue than most understand it is.
Mobs/Masses, don’t see distinctions well.
When/if, a momentum builds against actions of various Jewish elements, the Mobs won’t be thinking about good Jews or bad Jews, they will lump everyone together and break all the windows on the street.
Phil, wow, great link, although the way you casually mention antisemitism and then cherry pick the minority of responses not written by deranged racists makes it seem as if you were deliberately trying to misrepresent the responses. It seems clear that the overwhelming majority of opposition to Meehan’s trip is predicated on good old Jew-hatred. Shame. I’m sure you guys have a point and you’re more than entitled to it, it’s just most of the people who agree with you are dangerous loons.
Not riddled with nutters at all! Are these the people you want to align yourself with?
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and this beauty by “blueveinedthrobber”
another:
i just read from the top and saw some antisemitism
but i also saw genuine disdain for ethnocracy and apartheid and client stateism
I saw a lot more of the former than the latter, but so what. Seems like just with Mondoweiss, you can’t have one without the other, right Phil?
Gf you should put your condemnation in context. Phil allows comments from people like eee or fredblogs. Look up fredblogs comments.
Stop complaining about antisemitism as if its the only hate that ever existed in the world. You do not operate from a universalist perspective. You are partisan.
Why the hell shouldnt people be enraged their own representatives are wasting time in a foreign country while our country is endurng an economic crisis?
The world does not revolve around you.
>> I saw a lot more of the former than the latter, but so what. Seems like just with Mondoweiss, you can’t have one without the other, right Phil?
GuiltyFeat, I was disappointed – as I’m sure you were, too – when members of this site chose not to condemn the Hamas spokesperson’s comment about “welcoming” the recent attack on Israel, but opted to attack you instead.
I’m now equally disappinted with you for choosing to ignore the point raised by Phil in this thread – that American politicians are demonstrating an inappropriate and, in my opinion, disturbing allegiance to another nation and that they’re finally getting called out on it by non-”lunatic fringe” commenters – and to focus instead on the hateful and immoral comments made by the idiots, the trolls and the (anti-Semitic) haters.
The fact that lunatics will litter sites with their comments is no reason to toss away all valuable information. eee, longliveisrael, RW and others post hateful and immoral things on this site all the time, but I don’t base the value of your comments on the hateful and immoral things they say.
Just my 2¢…
GF, the jewish people in the US – in supporting an increasingly mad Israel – have been in effect supporting ethtnocracy, brutish colonialism, apartheid policies and inhumane treatment of the natives. Given the knee-jerk support for Israel’s evilest policies provided by most mainstream jewish organizations – why should one be surprised that there’d be rage directed against them? a rage born out of revulsion for Israel’s ugly, despicable behavior? do you expect the American people – jewish and not – to sit by silently forever as Israel executes palestinians in broad daylight, abducts and tortures children, maims and kills people at will, holds countless innocent people in its jails and forces our elected representatives – and our media – to kow tow eat crow at the merest attempt at balance?
The US entire foreign policy and a good bit of domestic policy is captive to zionist interests. And zionism has gone from the merely selfishly nationalist to theocratic, racist, parochial, xenophobic and crazy militaristic in just the past 40 odd years (elements that were always there, just not so overtly, and not in our faces – so one could still hope for redemption).
This, not to mention that it is israel – and its madcap supporters in the US that keep bleating on and on about Iran when the problems the world faces are so huge. Just as the same assembly of fanatics and misguided politcal players did about Iraq – when the neocons (the majority of whom were jewish) brought about the destruction of that country and liquidation of a million of its citizens -right along with thousands of US casualties and 10′s of thousands among the wounded and scarred for life. The invasion of Iraq is, BTW, an event that is actually celebrated in Israel, where compassion for anything not-jewish is in very short supply. I have never heard a regular israeli voice the slightest regret for the loss of those American lives sacrificed on its behalf. Not once – something to think about when we hear of those demands to show abiding “love” for a country that loves no one back – not even its own citizens (tent protests, anyone? false flag operations?).
Since israel insists on dragging the diaspora jews down with it to the special hell it is carving for itself – as it increasingly persecutes palestinians – why would we not expect that jewish institutions – and eventually individuals – be held responsible for the evils perpetrated by Israel? many people said – and Phil’s blog echoes – that if and when things get really tough for the US the mandarin classes will get the brunt of the masses’ ire. It’s one thing to be a madarin. It’s quite another to be seen to work for the interests of a country not your own. That is why it is so absolutely important to draw a line – no, a canal – between the jews of the world and the so-called jews of israel. otherwise, well, there is a lot more not-so-pretty stuff percolating under the surface in this country.
…and you can’t be a Zionist without being a lying and murderous anti intellectual racist GF.
GF,
Cliff’s Why the hell shouldnt people be enraged their own representatives are wasting time in a foreign country while our country is endurng an economic crisis?
You guys are the ones who insist that Israel is a “Jewish State” and not a nation of all its citizens, and then you turn around and object when people use the terms Jews to refer to Israel? What do you expect people to do? Refer to your preferred citizenry (because it sure the hell isn’t just plain Israelis in your view) the way Prince once used a graphic symbol to identify himself?
All this is hubris come home to roost. You won’t listen.
Danaa, (and you should be paying attention too, GF)
The US entire foreign policy and a good bit of domestic policy is captive to zionist interests. And zionism has gone from the merely selfishly nationalist to theocratic, racist, parochial, xenophobic and crazy militaristic in just the past 40 odd years (elements that were always there, just not so overtly, and not in our faces – so one could still hope for redemption).
And we in the US are more than aware of this insanity in the current crop of New Aposotolic Reformationist presidential hopefuls like Perry, Bachmann, and Palin touting the ‘I love Israel more than the US’ line. You better believe people are getting mad, and, you know what? These are NOT anti-semitic people—they don’t give a shit about Jews any more than they care about the Chinese guy who runs the Pick Up Stix restaurant, they want goddam jobs—but their utterances are going to sound wildly anti-semitic to you sitting across the pond. But you should have thought about that when we warned you.
GF, you haven’t been on this board as long as Danaa and I have, and far be it for you to read the archives.
Two years ago, in a late night convo at the end of a long thread, Danaa and I discussed the murmurs we were hearing in the heartland. We both agreed—correct me if I’m wrong, Danaa— that if, should, (sorry, Phil) anti-semitism rears its head here, (1) it would be 10 times worse than Germany because of the population difference and completely unforgiving because of the sympathy Jews have enjoyed for decades in the USA, (which many Jewish leaders like Foxman and Dershowitz failed to appreciate adequately), and (2) it would start in the Christian churches and communities, which sent its kids to die in the military, and that are becoming offended by Christian Zionism and its’ warlike policies killing their kids.
Reread this, GF:
Israeli Danaa may not have lived in this country for a long time, but I can tell you this much. This woman has her finger on the pulse outside DC, NYC, and CNN’s Atlanta, and she is reading it right. Dead Right.
The media has made a deadly mistake silencing Americans, or making any discussion of Israel and its policies some kind of anti-semitic act. Any University 101 psych student can tell you the outcome of imposing those rules and regs: you breed what you’re trying to silence. Accent on “breed.” From an innocent cell.
I came back to make a small comment on Phil’s saying there was a sea change in Israel’s image and then saw MRW’s comment:
“Two years ago, in a late night convo at the end of a long thread, Danaa and I discussed the murmurs we were hearing in the heartland. We both agreed—correct me if I’m wrong, Danaa— that if, should, (sorry, Phil) anti-semitism rears its head here, (1) it would be 10 times worse than Germany because of the population difference and completely unforgiving because of the sympathy Jews have enjoyed for decades in the USA, (which many Jewish leaders like Foxman and Dershowitz failed to appreciate adequately), and (2) it would start in the Christian churches and communities, which sent its kids to die in the military, and that are becoming offended by Christian Zionism and its’ warlike policies killing their kids.”
What I was going to say about how this isn’t so much a sudden sea change, as one has been percolating along for a long time, — what MRW is saying he and Danaa discussed some time ago.
I have watched this since 2002 and tracked it in public comments.
About 2005-6 the Israel-US issue had ripened in the public and was starting to smell, it coincided with W&M’s book but was not caused by their Lobby expose…it was already there.
What happened over the years and now even more so since 2005-6, is instead of the zionist and Israelis considering the growing resentment of them in the US public and backing off, they doubled down, got more aggressive and more vicious toward their critics and assorted enemies. They intensified their efforts to censor, they became even more loud and bullying and demanding. They upped the demonizing of everyone and sent out their minion army of hasbaras to scream anti semite at everyone. They started bragging even more in public about their power and control of US government and elections and people saw that reflected in our politician’s statements of fidelity to Israel and that really cinched for the public that, yes indeed, the Jews (the public doesn’t all discriminate between Jews and zionist) were controlling our government in a lot of areas.
So you know for a normal person after a while enough of this is enough, like being married to some ungrateful insane woman who tries to scratch your eyes out every day because you bought her a Mercedes instead of a Rolls Royce.
But I don’t necessarily think a anti semitic movement will start from the Christian arena. I think it will come from the public’s discontent with our government in general and the Israeli allegiance will be a huge symbol to them of how the US congress and government doesn’t represent Americans …in other words betrays them –and not only that but betrays them in favor of the Jews and Israel, a foreign country–and betrays them in favor of Jews, not abroad, but right here among us who will be seen as not loyal to ‘us’ and our country. The old enemy within being more hated than enemy without. When the Christians zios will convert will be when they can’t withstand the evidence that they too are being betrayed and used in ways that affect the welfare of their families…the practicalities of life, especially as the economy stagnates or gets worse will then trump their religious ideology and peer pressure from the general population will intensify their anger at being had so to speak.
I think what some of us expected, at least I did , was that the zionist and Jews who support them would see the error of their ways–realize that they were acting out the canards of Jews as hostile and disloyal to the nations they lived and imitating the mentality of the nazis in Palestine and be shocked to back to reality when they saw this pointed out in public.
But that didn’t happened among the zios, they have now instead made this a zero sum game for all that oppose their agendas.
I don’t see the US or Americans ever committing a holocaust on the Jews or anyone, or expelling them.
I do see how anti semitism, what we are calling anti semitism, could start at the grassroots as it’s now doing and work it’s way up to where the Jews are shunned and viewed with suspicion by a large segment of the public so that eventually politicians and others of influence in government and business would be loath to be associated with them in the public eye.
Unlike Germany where the attitudes towards the Jews came mainly from the top down, when it comes from the bottom up Jews at bottom start feeling it first. In my area this would affect Jews who have nothing to do with zionist and Israel but I like to think and am pretty confident it wouldn’t affect them in this particular and similar communities.
But in the heavily Jewish enclaves where they are more tribal or Jewish/Israel centric because of living surround mostly by other Jews they will feel it and won’t be moving as freely in and out of the non Jewish world as they once did. They will be confronted politically more and more in pubic by non Jews over Israel loyalty and they may react aggressively as did some of the AIPACers. If they do they will be further marginalized by the majority. Eventually this will work it’s way up to the Jewish elite vr the non Jewish elite. It will be like they are branded with some stigma like the ‘communist” of the 50′s. Politicians accepting money from AIPAC or the zionist then would be akin to getting caught in some spy sting or pedophile ring, political death.
The biggest factor in all this is— the zionist are not going to stop and DC isn’t going to reform itself on this or anything else.
So the above scenario depends on how far the public goes on the zionist and Israel they see in our politics. But it is definitely now in play in the public.
If the zios and their politicians had any frigging sense they would back off, retreat to Israel behind their wall, mind their own business and be grateful for the Israel they do have. Doing what they’ve been doing is leading to a war with the American public they can’t win in the end.
And Gaddafi is gone, just like Mubarak ,yea the guy who called his people pigs and animals–take a lesson US zios.
Doing what they’ve been doing is leading to a war with the American public they can’t win in the end.
i have to agree with this. not everything you said but this i do agree. this is not a win win situation we’ve got going here.
i am also very mindful of create false conspiracy agenda. iow i do believe there are posters on this site intending to ratchet up the discourse..and not in a good way, not only on this site. everything is at play. players play dirty and this could get very very ugly. i’m still having lots of faith in the american people which of course includes american jews. i think we can rise above this but we have to be mindful there are those amongst us who thrive on inflamation. i do think there will be a public backlash against israel but i don’t think (i hope not) it will be directed towards our american jewish community at large. but, wrt my link, everything is at play. they are amongst us and their job is to bring the site down from the left. i know it and i put nothing past them. nothing.
“they are amongst us and their job is to bring the site down from the left. i know it and i put nothing past them. nothing.”
Hummm…think we are being visited by some DKos’ers maybe? I’ve suspected that once or twice in some comments. Making little incursions to see what they could stir up to use.
What I said in my comment though was a hypothetical projection based purely on human nature, the good and bad…the public animal.
And too on how these movements grow and why. Another sceniro would be one side has to break first–like the zios feeling threatened enough to wisely back off or the politicians feeling threatened enough to give up their Israel fetish and Jewish donors Israel I/P strings. But the public would have to get real hot, hotter than they are even now to back them down. However if they did, the Jewish/zio resentment would dissipate quickly once their abnormal influence was removed and just be a blip in the memory hole.
But it would be a game of chicken and I really have no faith in the sanity of zionist or the sanity of any mob movement. I think the zios would smash themselves into the wall if they thought they could take everyone with them before they would give it up.
I don’t know, it’s almost absurd that we having to discuss this in America….have come to this point. But feel free to point out where you don’t agree with my theory or take….I like different imput.
O.K. read the link now.
The thing is this kind of deception will work with some of the public but make the more astute ones even more cynical because they will recognize the ploy.
Perfect way to destroy a country, confuse the hell out of everyone, set them against each other and let chaos reign.
You would think it would dawn on even the so called ‘good people’ (who think they are good) and this is the way to ‘ get good done’ that it is much simpler for’ good people’ to just tell the damn truth and act for common good.
We are so screwed by all these idiots.
I simply have no opinion on what you guys are willing to put up with from your elected representatives. I hear a lot of whining about it on MW but it’s your democracy, not mine. I find it ironic, that I am regularly vilified here for the actions of my government which I voted against while many Americans here chastise the actions of the politicians they voted for (I’m guessing a healthy percentage of Monders are Democrats, no?) as if they were somehow independent of the electorate. As if you somehow didn’t know what was going to happen. Bollocks. The thing about democracy is that we all get the one we deserve. That’s kind of the problem with it.
I think it’s odd that 81 members of Congress (have I got that right?) visited Israel this Summer. I didn’t see any of them. Do members of Congress ever visit other countries? Iraq? Russia? The UK? Are they accused of being traitors and having dual allegiance when they do?
I don’t know. And I don’t care. This is a US problem, not an Israeli one.
What bothers me is racism. Racism hiding behind a veneer of genuine concern for democracy. Racism scares me. Not because I’m a Jew, but because I’m a human. Islamaphobia is as repugnant to me as anti-Semitism even though I have experienced one but not the other.
The repeated assumption that I only care about racism directed at me and my co-religionists is ignorant and insulting.
Every human has a responsibility to call out racists when they say or do racist things. MondoWeiss and Phil as editor in chief has a history of letting racism slide on this board when it doesn’t serve his purpose to oppose it.
In my opinion the idea that Israel “causes” anti-Semitism is not in itself a racist idea, but it is a profoundly ignorant one.
In my opinion the repeated assertion that the support of the American-Jewish community for Israel is the cause of growing anti-Jewish feeling in the US does begin to verge on racism, because it assumes that anyone Jewish (however you decide to define that) aligns themselves with the American-Jewish community which is a racist assumption and it also assumes that everyone in the American-Jewish community agrees with the statements of their leaders who are a self-selecting group that is rarely and only marginally appointed through democratic means. Jews, like everyone else are not a homogeneous group. We don’t like the same food or the same movies. We don’t all vote the same way or think the same way.
These assumptions, which I believe are somewhat racist, are even more astonishing on a site like MW where the overwhelming majority of American Jews who comment are not in agreement with Israel. Yet according to people like American, Phil, Mooser and others will be the unfortunate victims of the rise in US anti-Semitism and it’s all Israel’s fault and there’s nothing American or Danaa or anyone here can do about it and that’s just the way it is and aren’t Israelis cruel.
I call BS. I call BS on American and the MondoWeissers I have encountered who have said that Jews should not be allowed to own media companies because they can’t help themselves from supporting Israel. I call BS on Phil for allowing this racist bollocks to pollute his site. I call BS on anybody who believes that the actions of a government in the Middle East are the cause of an upsurge in racism in the American heartland.
Racism is as American as apple pie served in a “Whites Only” diner. You imported it from Europe in the 17th century and you’ve been practicing it on anyone you can find ever since. These days it’s the “ay-rabs” that you find scariest, but you better keep an eye on those darn Jews in case they go and get all uppity. People like American need to stop blaming everyone else for the faults in his own democracy. Phil needs to stop empowering this nonsense.
So, meh to Meehan. If you don’t like it, don’t vote for it. But don’t get in line behind a bunch of racists and let them slide because you’re angry about the same thing.
>> GuiltyFeat August 22, 2011 at 5:23 am
Good post, but you skirted the point I was trying to make to you.
I believe that Phil’s story was an attempt to show that concerned American citizens are speaking out against politicians who demonstrate an inappropriate allegiance to another nation. Rather than accept the story for what it is, you chose instead to focus on anti-Semitic comments included in the responses on the linked-to site.
Just as you and the points you make should not be coloured by the more hateful and immoral views of fellow Israeli commenters on this site, Phil and the points he raises should not be coloured by the hateful and immoral comments made by people on a linked-to website.
Anyway, just my 2¢ once again. I will continue to read your posts with interest because, generally speaking, you strike me as someone who is doing his best to be reasonable, forthright and fair, and I can admire and respect that.
“I saw a lot more of the former than the latter, but so what. Seems like just with Mondoweiss, you can’t have one without the other, right Phil?”
Sure Guilty Feat, sure. As Israel goes, so goes the fate of American Jews? Go pound holy desert sand clown, and don’t try to scare us.
You are safe in Israel, right, so what the hell do you care?
Yes, there will be anti-semetism involved. You know what? I’ve seen what real bigotry and racism looks like. A few misguided Americans calling me names doesn’t scare me, as long as they don’t lynch or castrate me (already been through one attempt at that, and I don’t remember a single non-Jew in the room).
” Mooser and others will be the unfortunate victims of the rise in US anti-Semitism”
Not me, pal. I bought an anti-semetism insurance policy from the coupon on the back of a Manishevitz matzoh box. Besides, they would have to come throught me wife to get me (if she’s in a good mood and I haven’t missed getting the can out to the curb) and she is one tough shicksa!
So let’s talk about the absolute omniscience conferred by Zionism. I’ve lived here all my life, gone to school with and worked with and married Americans (often, several at once!) but you, a goddam limey who lit out for the Jewish colonies is gonna tell me what they will do. Go pound sand.
Anyway, thank God no Jew in America has ever made an intemperate remark about non-Jews. I’m sure when we point that out, everything will be smoothed over, and we can all join together and excoriate the true danger to America, the Mormons.
OK thanks for giving m the benefit of the doubt. Part of my problem here might be that while I think 81 people visiting is clearly something extreme, I don’t see why each of those visits indicates “an inappropriate allegiance to another nation” by the visitor.
I get that the visits are sponsored by the Israel lobby and that the visitors will be shown a one-sided version of events, but the accusations of “traitor” and the venom shown , even when it isn’t clearly racist, imply that you think these congressmen and congresswomen are incapable of having a single opinion other than the ones they are fed. If that’s true, why did you all vote for them? I just don’t understand. It’s like you should be angry at yourselves but you’re blaming the Israel lobby and Israel for America having elected shit politicians.
” a goddam limey who lit out for the Jewish colonies is gonna tell me what they will do”
Not me, American and Danaa. Read the posts before commenting you funny fellow.
They’re the ones saying that rising anti-Semitism in the US will impact all American Jews and it’s the fault of all American Jews for uniformly supporting Israel. I think they’re full of it. Apparently, so do you.
I’ll let you take it up directly with them when you’re done prematurely responding to threads you haven’t fully understood.
>> Part of my problem here might be that while I think 81 people visiting is clearly something extreme, I don’t see why each of those visits indicates “an inappropriate allegiance to another nation” by the visitor.
The visits appear to be just the latest manifestation of American politicians placing the interests of a foreign nation and its citizens above the interests of their own nation and the citizens they represent.
And the politicians deserve to be called out on it.
(BTW, just to clarify, I’m not American. I’m Canadian. Eh. :-) )
GF, 1st how do u know we all voted for them? 2nd, we hate the US system of campaign finance, which turns US into a plutocracy. We do what we can to change it. What’s makes you think we don’t? Like the Kennedy Brothers who were murdered, we do what we can to make AIPAC register as agent of foreign country, and to make our FBI/CIA go after the foreign agents in AIPAC. You know it.
“People like American need to stop blaming everyone else for the faults in his own democracy”
Well GF you must not have read half of what I have had to say here.
Which is that I hold we Americans and our corrupt government more responsible than any others for what is going on.
I hold us more responsible than I even do the zios for the US-Israel and I/P situation because as I’ve said repeatedly it is the job of our elected leaders to be the gatekeepers against the influences of agendas like the zios which will always be present in this kind of democracy –and they aren’t doing their jobs.
Don’t know how I could be plainer on that.
“(often, several at once!)”
You know, now that I look back on it, that was big of me, don’t you think?
Wait! So el[bee]jay is a Canadian, but Mooser’s an American. No wonder I’m confused.
“GF, 1st how do u know we all voted for them?”
Er… cause they come from both sides of the house (55 GOP, 26 Democrat) and in the wacky version of democracy you guys practice there are only two parties to vote for so, whichever way you voted, some of these guys are from your party.
It’s true, I did the math.
“Er… cause they come from both sides of the house (55 GOP, 26 Democrat) and in the wacky version of democracy you guys practice there are only two parties to vote for so, whichever way you voted, some of these guys are from your party.”
Shows what you know. First, there are more than two parties in America. In fact, I would venture to guess that many commentators here have abandoned the Democratic wing of the republican party in favor of candidates who are less vomit inducing.
Second, we don’t vote for parties, we vote for candidates. So you would have to show that these candates were of the parties we favor, but also show that they come from the districts (or states, in case of Senators) where we reside.
And, third, that’s assuming we voted for the candidate who holds the seat in our district or represents our state in the Senate.
So it is very possible that none of the congresscritters visiting Israel are people we voted for.
“So el[bee]jay is a Canadian”
Oh, I love a bad pun as much as the next person, but that’s just awful. I don’t know whether to spit or congratulate you.
Oh please GF…..save the racism thing for when it actually applies.
When talking about Jews or zios or Israel creating anti semitism “”by their actions”", everyone here, except you evidently, knows we are talking about “them”…’the group” that does it — not all “the Jews”.
Why does this have to be explained to you over and over again?
Do you just enjoy playing the racism card? Is that it?
Why did you vote for Netenyahu, Shas and Liberman GF? I just don’t understand.
Yeah right, and your political system different how exactly? Does Labor or Meretz stand a chance in the next election?
” Read the posts before commenting you funny fellow.”
There’s a difference between saying Americans might become more anti-semitic because they find out the truth about Israel and the disgusting passive-aggressive game you play with accusations of American anti-Semitism.
BTW, you have never even been in America, have you? A minor blessing anyway, as we have plenty of thieves here.
Sounds like milder versions of what Israelis and their supporters say about Arabs/Muslims in Ynet and the NYPost..
If only it weren’t true. Excellent point.
Mike Rivero is an iconoclast, to say the least. Just as he was the first to write a comment at the legislator’s blog that was later disappeared, he was also the first to cover this story – on Friday, I believe.
Rivero links to a lot of sites that might accurately be characterized as “anti-Semitic,” but he certainly is not. He is also a major climate change skeptic. While I disagree with some of the ideas Mike promotes, having read WRH for over seven years now, I have to say he has been a predictor of many events, good and bad.
Back to Amar’s point: Strange that DK has banned Mondoweiss over some of the comments and viewpoints here, yet diaries and comments there continue to cite JPost, Haaretz and other articles whose comments contain far more inaccuracy, vitriol, racism and blind fucking stupidity than I’ve ever read here.
“articles whose comments contain far more inaccuracy, vitriol, racism and blind fucking stupidity than I’ve ever read here.”
So you’ve been skipping right over my comments, huh? At any rate, you can’t steal my jokes if you don’t read them, (assuming you are too young to remember surrealist vaudville) so you’re the loser, pal.
GuiltyFeat: It seems clear that the overwhelming majority of opposition to Meehan’s trip is predicated on good old Jew-hatred.
But still even you couldn’t find more than four examples out of 157.
When reading the site, I do not see any anti Jewish trash talk, but more simply really really angry about his ignorance, priorities and not listening.
link to meehanforcongress.com
“Pat, Why did you erase the comments to Israel? Now we know you are anti-American, because Americans have spoken HERE and you erase their comments “
GF,
Jewphobia is there and always will be. Just as there is phobia of all defined groups. It is no excuse to excuse what is wrong.
The public has a field day trashing and bashing Catholics in the most ugly way over the failure of the Catholic church. So what?
But diverting and focusing on the release of anti-Catholicism (even with a history of violence against Catholics– remember the Know Nothings?) is NOT any excuse or legitimate diversion from bringing the crimes of the institution (who thought it was above civil laws) to Justice.
Concentrating on ignorant anti Jews is a narcissistic self-pity diversion.
Deal with the crimes of the US Government going on arms junkets and supporting the interest of a foreign country over their own citizens.
That is what is bad, really bad, for Jews of America.
Good point.
In my more paranoid moments, however, I did become suspicious of some of the timing of the media focus on the church crimes and coverups just as anti-war nuns were being sentenced to prison term in the us for protesting at fort Benning.
I only saw a few, like the ones you listed, that were overtly anti-semitic. I do see a lot of rage at congresspeople for putting the interest of Israel over the interest of the U.S. people, and I sort of sympathize, some of it may be sublimated anti-semitism and it may not be. Israel (the state) has shown over and over again that it would happily shaft us if they gained and advantage, yet they get our unconditional support in a way no other foreign country does. Through what appears to be threats against congresspeople (e.g. of targeted campaigns if they don’t toe the line) and bribes. I don’t know if he really ranks Israeli interests above U.S. interests, there are a couple of congresspeople who do (e.g. Sherman and Berman) but by and large I think they’re mostly after their own self-interest above that of the people. I would have applauded Meehan if he’d traveled around the world and put the interest of all the people of the world on more or lest equal footing with the people of the U.S. But he didn’t.
another…another…another
And nary a jihadist to be found.
“It seems clear that the overwhelming majority of opposition to Meehan’s trip is predicated on good old Jew-hatred.”
That’s what you want to believe, rather than face the idea that Jewish support for Israel may have lead people to a new antipathy for Jews.
Of your eight examples, three are only Israel hatred. They do not mention Jews at all.
Of the others, only the last one does not clearly link the antipathy to Jews with Israel.
Other commenters on this site have warned that Gentile America may turn against Jews as a result of Jewish support for Israel. It looks as though it is happening.
Yes sir, that sounds like a great plan. I’ll just let Israelis tell me all about American Jew-hatred. But then again, is there anything they don’t know?
Mooser, of course Jewish Israelis know everything. That’s what you know when you have no intimacy with any Gentiles. It works in reverse too.
Just wait for the Zionists ‘megaphone’ software to kick in gear and watch a flood of pro-Israel comments come in. Something like this will make them go apeshit.
Yep, and it wont be surprising that the ziodrones will impersonate american patriots on the comment section, proclaiming that the us and israel are one.
Cliff, good point. It is one of the customs of the ziobots to impersonate and cough up some old anti-semitic tropes so as to bring discredit to genuine critics of American policies. They do it on blogs, and in newspapers, and have been no doubt attempting to do son this blogs (which we are kept away from thanks to moderation). At least two of the comments highlighted by GF – that great searchers of anti-semitic nuggets – make me suspicious. I’m sure there’ll be more.
The rage in the comments in general, is, I believe, genuine. I witness that anger often in the heartland. Not so much in what people say, but in what they don’t, yet I know they have a lot more and a lot stronger opinions than what we usually hear.
Israel is the cause of anti-semitism? Self-governance as the cause of anti-semitism.
What a thesis Phil.
I thought you were a progressive, an opponent of racism.
You forgot the quote marks Richard.
I am hoping you’ll find the courage to one day actually confront Israel’s vast crimes, but I’m not sure you’ll ever get there.
When “self-governance” requires the universal human rights of others be extinguished, then a moral and legal boundary is crossed.
Your vision of “self-governance” is sick and twisted. Guess you love the smell of white phosphorous in the morning.
Witty when did you stop beating your wife?
That is the same logical fallacy you regularly employ. Zionism is not benign. No moral person should accept Zionism. Zionism is colonialism and ethnic cleansing.
Israel is colonizing the west bank and east jerusalem. That is zionism.
“Israel is the cause of anti-semitism? Self-governance as the cause of anti-semitism.”
Repeat after me witty:
People are critical of Israel because of ‘what it does.’
People resent Jews or the zios among them for ‘what they do’ within our government that Americans see as subversive and against our interest.
Your attitude and those like GF and LLI and others are doing a super job of making Anti semitism equal Pro humanity and Pro Americanism.
if antisemitism is defined as hatred of Jews for no reason other than JUST BECAUSE they are Jews, then most of the language slung on Meehan’s blog is NOT antisemitism. It may express hatred — although outrage is more descriptive; and some of it was targeted at Jews or Israel or zionists, although more of the bad vibes were directed at Meehan; none that I saw was aimed at Jews JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS.
The hatred and outrage was expressed BECAUSE of the negative impact on the United States that was caused by Israeli and Jewish actions and by Meehan’s complicity in and acquiescence to and encouragement of and enabling of and profiting from those actions.
dimdok complained that “only” Jews have been persecuted . . .seinfeld seinfeld seinfeld . . .
turn that around: Meehan’s constituents complained on his blog about his actions in going to Israel and catering to Jews and zionists. Apparently, neither the Belgian lobby nor the Iran lobby nor the Cambodian lobby nor the Siberian lobby has made similar demands and exhibited similar behavior towards Americans and the American Congress, ONLY Jews have done so.
ask the question, why are we persecuted, then answer the question yourself, based on the above reality.
isreal isn’t self goverance. it is conquest. self goverance would be a palestinian state in all of palestine
What self-governance witty is talking about? anyone knows? is there some “live-and-let-live” policy in israel that I missed? is he talking about the samaritans?? the armenians? the druze? bedouins? the Russian emigres? chabad? the Lubavichers? Kazakhstanis? hungarian-chechs?descendents of the visioths? emorites?
Please good commenter passer-bys – help me figure out what lies behind this riddle. There surely must be something so deep and wise that it escapes me. For I have a funny feeling that unless we figure it out today, tomorrow – our entire world is doomed!
Hey Witty,
Why won’t you answer my question about Walt’s statement referring to Cast Lead as morally bankrupt. You wanted Phil to Annie edge it, so do you agree with Walt or not?
Or do you support the morally bankrupt and demonic Cast Lead?
“Israel is the cause of anti-semitism?”
Only you are capable of adding the question mark.
Um, the Israeli/Zionist premise that all Jews do/should support apartheid is ant-semitic.
The Israeli position that Jews cannot live among other groups is anti-semitic.
These hateful Antisemitic or should I say anti-Jewish comments are the simpliest reason for Israel existence. Phil and rest could not see it if it punch them at the nose. Wonderful post Phil- thank you very much. Keep living in the Wonderland of yours and you shall see that the history is as cruel as it can be, particulary when it comes to Jews.
Everything is antisemitic to an ignorant putz like you dim, so none of your hysterics matter.
The day you criticize disgusting comments regularly left on haaretz and ynet by racist zionist jews, is the day pigs will fly.
These people have a right to be outraged that oir politicians whore themselves to your racist apartheid state.
Meanwhile you cult members are defaming the victims of the norway massacre, and lets not even mention the vile hate that they spew regularly about palestinians and any news article that humanizes them.
You are not a victim. You are the establishment and that is the problem.
Dim, Israel exists. Period. But to survive, it’s ‘gotta to be a global citizen like any other country.
Zionism needs to feed the ideas of victimization and threats to justify itself, to build tribalism.
Jews are not the first and not the last group to experience “antisms.” Or to be victims of crimes of others. But why the self identity around this?
As long as people organize themselves into groups, there will always be tensions between the groups, even friendly tensions — like between sports teams, or communities separated by a river. It is just how the brain works. Primitive yes, but no reason to cultivate tribalism.
And yet were are the ONLY group being victimized for the last 2000 (two thousand!) years. So I beg your pardon, but I have my concerns when it comes to the fate of Jewish state.
Yup! So glad there was never a genocide of Armenians. Or a purging of Catholics in Germany before Jews were the target. Oh, and of course each and every last victim of the Holocaust was a Jew.
Nope, I guess only Jewish suffering exists, right dimadok?
>> And yet were are the ONLY group being victimized for the last 2000 (two thousand!) years.
Women have been victimized for far longer. Quit your f*cking whining.
“And yet were are the ONLY group being victimized for the last 2000 (two thousand!) years. ”
If this is true, you are saying that over two thousand years, in dozens of different countries with different customs, Jews couldn’t get on with the neighbours. And, of course, you want to say the problem is with the neighbours.
continued –
For some reason, my previous effort as a response to dimadok was deemed inappropriate even though it put more or less the same point as the other replies perhaps a little less angrily and more politely. Why, Phil?
One point I made that perhaps wasn’t so explicit in the following comments was that statements like dimodok’s (assuming as I think we can that it was not intended sarcastically) put the problem with Zionism in a nutshell – its exceptionalism. Perhaps that is regarded as an inflammatory remark.
Oh the rage of righteous!
Have I said anything mocking the deaths of others?
My exceptionalism lays within the understanding that should someone seek to harm me or my family just for being Jewish- no one will raise a finger in order to prevent it.
Have any Arab countries have recognized Armenian genocide? Do you know any Armenians at all, because I do and their sympathy towards Israel is greater than you could imagine.
Same is for Georgians who had suffered for being minority.
Most of you here do not have a slightest clue what is persecution or hatred and yet spit out unbelievable things, which are the same as hundreds years ago, only the “cause” had changed.
You call me a “whining” Jew, patronizing of high morals, putting murders of Israelis to mockery and still have the audacity to call yourself “moral” people?
Do you know any Armenians at all, because I do and their sympathy towards Israel is greater than you could imagine.
last year i went to a ramadam feast that was also a fundraiser for a water purification system in gaza. i met an extended family there who said they were palestinian-armenians from jerusalem. they were not friends of israel.
You just gave me a great idea Dim.
I should hold up a bank and if I get arrested or shot in the act, I’ll the bank to court on charges if hate crimes.
How do you think that’ll work out?
BTW. As for not recognizing the Armenian genocide, I didn’t realize Israel was an Arab country.
Do you know any Armenians at all, because I do and their sympathy towards Israel is greater than you could imagine.
Absolutely not in the US, especially in Massachusetts where the ADL was pushing to not have the Armenian Genocide recognized.
And Armenians cannot get over that people used photos from the Armenian genocide as Jewish Holocaust pictures.
“put the problem with Zionism in a nutshell – its exceptionalism. Perhaps that is regarded as an inflammatory remark.”
I don’t think it’s inflammatory….the exceptionalism mentality is pretty much recongized as tied in with victimhood culture. IMO that’s the major thing the Jews stuck on that need to overcome to ever live in peace in the world—-that they are eternally entitled or exceptional thru victimhood.
“My exceptionalism lays within the understanding that should someone seek to harm me or my family just for being Jewish- no one will raise a finger in order to prevent it”
Oh what bull.
The first, second and third thing you need to get over is your victimhood exceptionalism.
Name any group in the universe that has been more compensated, catered to and allowed to act out their revenge and psychosis with impunity by the world than the Jews…and because of what one man and bunch of nazis did that most of the world had nothing to do with.
To get any higher on the endangered species list you would have to be put in sterile labs or compound preserves.
The victim meme is cultivated. It is weak and manipulative. Victimology used to unite a people.
Jews have been in positions of esteem and influence as a group longer and more than any other defined group.
Just look at Spain. Sephardic Jews held a very high and privileged position in society. So high, they were successful in getting the Vatican to write a papal bull for “allow them to leave under protection.” The event was to coincide with religious dates to give it permanent significance.
Of course the Jews were right to leave before it got hotter form them, but they suffered much less than the Muslims of Spain. The way history is recounted, one would think that ONLY the Jews suffered under the Inquisition.
The US government has a whole agency devoted to monitoring anti-semitism here and anywhere in the world. I don’t hear anyone calling for it to be put on the spending chopping block although the country is in dire economic straits. Same re the huge chunk of cash US sends israel upfront and early every year (with interest). I’d call that outlay of US taxpayer funds a tad more than raising not a finger in order to prevent harm coming to anyone “just for being Jewish.” Jewish community in USA also gets the bulk of Homeland Security funds to protect it.
You know, dimadok, no-one can be totally shielded from harm. Other countries reduce the risk by being friendly to their neighbours, by negotiating rather than bombing, by getting on with the minorities in their own country rather than treating them as second class citizens or indulging in ethnic cleansing, by agreeing borders rather than stealing land, by allowing reasonably free passage across borders, by not building walls but extending the hand of friendship. Do you understand when people here talk about the “victim mentality”?
Took me less than a minute to find that 20 countries have officially recognized the Armenian genocide including Lebanon but not including either US or Israel. Do you have a point about this?
link to en.wikipedia.org
Israelis are not a minority in Israel so what is your point about Georgians? If you are talking about Jews being a minority in many countries, then realise that there are minorities in every country – in my current country of abode there is a significant minority of Chinese extraction – not a problem – on the whole they do very well because they have a culture of working hard just like the Jews of most countries I know of. The rest of your comment seems to me to be so far distant from current reality, where the world in general and the US in particular allows Israel to behave in ways that would be tolerated in no other country. Sooner or later – and perhaps sooner – people will realise this and start to wonder why they do that.
Nobody called you a whining Jew – somebody did suggest (with a fairly strong epithet) that you were whining – you added the “Jew”. This is a fairly standard attempt by you to suggest anti-semitism in the remark – I certainly detected none. Incidentally in my current home the standard way of referring to a person from England is “whining Pom” – it’s not a big issue – because they will buy you a beer while saying it. I’d even buy you one and still call you a whiner! Get over it!
I don’t think anyone here “puts murders of Israelis to mockery” – I in particular feel sad for everyone whose life is violently (or non-violently) cut short – but I wonder about your feelings for the murder of Palestinians. You don’t seem to have much empathy with your neighbours. Please comment!
“And yet were are the ONLY group being victimized for the last 2000 (two thousand!) years.”
I mentioned this to my friend, Nathan, who’s part Native American and part Australian Aborigine. He laughed at your idiocy.
Has Israel? Oh wait, Israel is not even Arab.
Actually, dim, my Armenian American brother-in-law and I had this conversation a couple of decades ago. It was he who informed me which ‘brand’ of lobbyists put the kibosh on US recognition of the Armenian Genocide. iirc, there was a strong push for recognition early in the first Clinton admin.
I do agree on one thing-it is a shame on me as an Israeli citizen that Israel is yet to recognize Armenian genocide.
Some progress may come soon, as our relations with Ankara deteriorate.
link to haaretz.com
Dimadok – You accuse others of ‘not having a clue’ but know zero about the sacrifices made by the Lebanese (mainly Maronites in demographically fragile mountain enclaves ) to welcome thousands of Armenian refugees after the genocide – similar actions took place in Iran, Syria, and Jordan.
Armenian Genocide Memorial in Bikfaya Lebanon
link to en.wikipedia.org
95th Anniversary Commemoration of the Armenian Genocide Lebanon
link to flickr.com
Recognition of Armenian Genocide by Lebanon
Lebanese Parliament Passes Genocide Resolution
BEIRUT-The Lebanese Parliament unanimously approved a resolution Thursday, calling for the commemoration of the 82nd anniversary of the Armenian Genocide perpetrated by the Ottoman Turkish government at the beginning of the century.
The resolution is the first step toward a complete recognition of the Armenian Genocide by the Lebanese government, and the subsequent condemnation of relentless Turkish denial tactics.
The resolution, presented by the parliament executive, calls on all Lebanese citizens to unite with the Armenian people on April 24” in commemorating the atrocities of 1915-1923.
“Respect for the Victims of the Armenian Genocide” exhibition in Lebanon
photostream: link to flickr.com
Yes, moral enlightenment born of spite. Such a light unto the nations.
For Israel to exist it must keep sucking billions per year off the American teet and having America and the rest of the goyish world fight their wars for them. At least the Maccabees, which Theodore Herzl said the Zionists would be like, in the conclusion to his book, ‘The Jewish State’, did their own fighting…..sure kill every living non Jewish thing like the Maccabees did….hope you’ll feel better…..
Shalom
Your ugly rants on this site are too transparent.
Zionist need to cultivate ideas of hate and victimhood to feed Zionism. Why without rants like yours above, Zionism cannot explain itself.
Maybe that is why your ugly posts were allowed to go through moderation — to show a true face of Zionism.
You are an example of a true Judeophobe.
These hateful Antisemitic or should I say anti-Jewish comments are the simpliest reason for Israel existence.
Then, good. You’re in no danger, then.
people from South Carolina are complaining that Israelis are taking jobs at new industrial park in Myrtle Beach.
wonder if South Carolinians are putting SC Sen. Lindsey Graham on the same hotseat as Meehan’s constituents provided for him.
“Jewish filth”?
What the hell is this?
I can’t tell if you are being facetious or if you are serious.
But this is disgusting and totally over the line either way.
I can understand the rage. I don’t like the venom here, but at the same time, it’s still vitally important that Israel be treated like any other country the US must deal with, and not be favorited any longer. Why is it that 6 mil Israelis are so much more important than than 300 million Arabs and Aran countries who see the injustice the Israelis have done for decades? And which more Americans are finally, at long last, “getting” now.
Pat Meehan took scissors to his page, and now it looks like this:
link to meehanforcongress.com
What Phil linked to, is the original, unadulterated, version.
Eva,
Wait until his constituents see it, and start calling his office. You don’t fuck with the boys from southeast Delaware County, which is in Meehan’s district. That is solid working-class but they are not unaware. It is home to a lot of local universities where kids of the working class are getting the first university degree in the family.
The last thing you do is tell them they can’t speak up. Wrong thing to do. But we shall see.
I checked at 2:03 Brisbane time today, and he’s cut off the second set of critical comments.
But the idea that Israel has huge influence over American politicians is just an old anti-Semitic trope.
Yeah, RoHa, I notice that every time any US politician or wannabe talks about US foreign policy; they always make sure to say in code words that there is no sky between US & Israel. I was especially aware too what an “old anti-Semitic trope” it was counting those 29 standing ovations the US congress gave to Bibi.
You know the Arab Spring might actually come to the United States after all.
RE: “Congressman says, I’m going to Israel, and his site is flooded with ragefilled comments…” ~ Weiss
MY COMMENT: Junkets to Israel aren’t just for congressmen anymore. I have seen many instances over the last couple of decades where local pols go on a junket to Israel and an article or op-ed appears in the paper upon their return wherein they exclusively spew Likud’s talking points. I even remember this happening about 25 years ago in the case of our county’s fire department chief (who was quite an evangelical dimwit).
FOR EXAMPLE, SEE: Israel trip an eye-opening experience for Jefferson chief – link to onlineathens.com
Separation of church and state may seem like a good idea.
But only for a while.
In my country (and many European countries) the church over 2-3 centuries gained so much power that bishops had their own armies, the church minted coins and politicians and businessmen had to donate money and property to the church to be able to continue their work.
The battle to take control back from the church took hundreds of years. And when the state/s won, there were no more crusades to take over the holy land.
Today the king is the symbolic head of the church. (After democracy took over his role).
The state educate priests, appoints bishops, pay them and build and maintain “holy” houses for them to work in.
Superstition belongs in special houses, and society needs to pay to keep it there.
Now politicians can not praise the lord in public. People would shake their heads and vote for another party. Even the small Christian party (4%) is careful to do this.
Politicians may and some do praise their lord in church, but few notice since the churches are mostly empty. (Exept for weddings and funerals).
We do not print ‘In God we trust’ on our money.
‘In God we trust’ was replaced with ‘for king and country’ and then democracy.
The US seems to repeat the mistakes of ‘Old Europe’ and let religion take control of the government.
Onward to Jerusalem…
Separation of church and state is a good idea.
The US has a lot to learn about separation of church and state…
What I see the most of in those comments is a lot of anger at the zio/jewish groups for what they do here in the US…and toward the politicians who serve their Israel agenda.
I predicted long ago that this anger would grow as more of the public noticed our politicians pledging allegiance to Israel instead of America.
So now we have several groups opposing Israel…some on their treatment of Palestine and others on their activities here in the US–and some opposing on both because they are related.
And I can see why much of the public puts it in terms of the Jews because most of them see what appears to be the “united front” of the Jews in electing politicians who will cater to Israel when they read the NYT and other publications that quote a Jew as saying Israel is his most important consideration in US politics–and it’s already gotten worse with the next election gearing up and Jews like the former mayor of NY mouthing off and fanning the flames of Jewish Israel support.
Let me see if I can make this clear once again without eliciting anti semite flames.
For a citizen of the United States–or any country–to hold a higher allegiance to a foreign country and actively advocate for it to the detriment of their fellow citizens and when it conflicts with the interest of the county they live in is a abomination–it is not something within their ‘democratic rights.”
I cannot imagine Israeli politicians saying they will spend every drop of Israeli blood and treasure for the good of America as ours do or campaiging on their allegience to the US….or their citizens urging them to say or do that.
The danger for the Jews is some of them think they and Israel are an ‘exception’ to this basic universal rule and expectation of loyalty in any country and population.
We can say all day long that this anger should not be directed at “The Jews”, only at the ones that do it, but that’s not how the human mob works and not how the Jewish tribe works…the anti Israel, anti US zionist critics will attack, the Jews will circle the wagons, claim it’s all anti semitism and the lines will be drawn. Both sides will be egged on by the uber zios in the Jewish camp and the real anti semites in the critics camp and away it will go.
Yes, American, as Hitler says in Mein Kampf, hate is the great mass solidarity engine, whomever your chosen people are.
That’s very true…besides the survival instinct …the two strongest motivators for humans are love and hate.
I’ve been been predicting for some time that Zionism will probably trigger the biggest explosion of antisemitism in world history, from everywhere in the world all at once. This outcome seems to me to be more likely than ever. The big question is this: has this been the objective of many leading Zionists, especially religious Zionists, right from the start? Is this the name of the game — to produce an apocalyptic explosion in the service of grandiose messianic fantasies?
It certainly is on the part of Christian Zionists. They are banking, of course, on a mass conversion of Jews to Christianity because they fantasize this is needed for the Rapture. If this doesn’t happen, they will be the leaders of a revival of anti-Semitism.
See link to bit.ly
I agree—fanatic against fanatic in that showdown…but since the coming of the Rapture keeps getting kicked down the road I doubt the showdown will ever come….they will just keep on waiting for the ever elusive Rapture. LOL
Only the Christian Zionists totally believe in heaven, in a future life.
I think you and American nailed it: the Zionists fuel anti-semitism all over the world and then claim ‘We need Fortress Israel because everyone hates the Jews.’
As this site has frequently pointed out, the biggest anti-semites going are the Zionists.
I am not predicting such a result but it has worried me considerably. And yes I do think an anti-Semitic backlash is the objective of many leading Zionists. Anyone who seriously criticizes Israel and urges the US to end its unilateral support for them should be aware of this very real danger. There was a time when I constrained by criticisms for this reason.
“Anyone who seriously criticizes Israel and urges the US to end its unilateral support for them should be aware of this very real danger. There was a time when I constrained by criticisms for this reason”
But it is now more important than ever for jewish people to criticize israel most severely. And more over draw an important distinction between them – as citizens of some country in the world – and the madcap Judeans that took over israel.
History unfortunately has this tendency to repeat itself. Once before the zealots of judea brought the entire country of israel down. Now unfortunately, the entire world is the new judeans’ playground. Everything has changed in 2000 years, but the zealotry remained. Along with the self-destructive tendencies.
I second Danaa’s comment at August 21, 2011 at 6:27 pm, 100%.
Stephen Robert’s article in The Nation recently is one important example.
I seem to remember when I first started talking about this issue years ago Israeli activist and even others saying, oh you can’t talk about that because it involves the Jews and will cause anti semitism.
But then I’ve been discussing this so long I have probably heard every warning and excuse ever put out there to censor criticism of the Lobby, Israel and their minions.
After a while you caught on to the zio game… most people would be e talking about the Israel issue in a ‘political context’ – foreign policy–and inevitably some Israeli activist would come along and try to change the subject to being all about the Jews, Jew hatred, anti semitism, the holocaust and go into Jewish vicitmhood, peoplehood, what the world owes them–anything but the present day issue of I/P and US-Isr collusion. And then of course the slurs would start flying and it would turn into a regular pie throwing contest…which was the goal of the hasbara activist I guess.
My position then became if the Jews or Zios wanted to be political influencers and players as a ‘group’ then they had to expect to be discussed or criticized or knocked around like all the other political groups are.
For Zios anti semitism and anti semite still seems to their main and almost only fall back position now.
For the Christian zios it’s we Israel critics are lost and Godless, doomed to hell, and they quote scripture to us.
Most of the Jewish zios are nuts and all of the Christian zios are nuts.
I actually rather argue with a Jewish zio than a gentile Christian Zio because the Christians just spew out all this off the planet religious mumbo jumbo to any thing you say. They are about as rational as those snake handling religious sects.
The only possible reason I can see, besides keeping the usual Jewish victimhood meme going, that the zionist would deliberately esculate anti semitism is that they think they have ‘enough control’ of US and other governments to use any peak in anti semitism to gain even more consessions, money, aid, perhaps have even more laws written for especially for Jews or holocaust denial and etc,. I think they see people aren’t to turn over everything to them and that resentment is growing, so perhaps they think they can ‘force’ more of what they want out of everyone by rising the old holocaust and anti semite specters to higher levels.
If that were what they had in mind I have to say that would be a pretty wild and chancy game.
“The only possible reason I can see, besides keeping the usual Jewish victimhood meme going, that the zionist would deliberately esculate anti semitism is that they think they have ‘enough control’ of US and other governments to use any peak in anti semitism to gain even more consessions, money, aid, perhaps have even more laws written for especially for Jews or holocaust denial and etc,.”
And control of more Jews. That’s the thing that American democracy denies Zionists, and they hate it. As is easily seen in all of our zio-nuts here: they all think they own the Jews and Judaism.
I don’t think the Zionists ever thought that far ahead. They think history ended on June 4 1967. The hasbara has protected them but it won’t work indefinitely.
They bought official Judaism and when Zionism goes down the mess will be monumental.
Zionism and Israel are fundamentally amoral and it is going to be a big shock to a lot of goys when they come to realise this.
If extreme right wing policies, like apartheid, occupation and state terrorism, are identified with Zionism then it is hardly surprising that people are going to be disgusted by their representatives kowtowing to them and accepting funds and favours from them. Zionism has tried to use antisemitism as a cover for its activities and to suppress criticism and debate. Zionism, by insisting that it somehow represents and speaks for all Jews, making them complicit in its war crimes and illegal land grab, is bound to stoke antisemitism by such a misleading identification. Of course, in a vicious circle of abuse, it then uses such a reaction to justify its actions. Crying racism while building a state with racism embedded in its laws and actions is reprehensible, and can only lead to further separation and the suffering of innocent Jews around the world who have nothing to do with Israel’s racist policies. What a mess, when they could have constructed a modern enlightened state with universal human rights instead of a closed, 19th Century separatist one with very unhealthy dependency and subversive relationship with one which, for all its faults, has a constitution based on equal rights.
“Is this the name of the game — to produce an apocalyptic explosion in the service of grandiose messianic fantasies?”
Jeez, man, if the goddam goyim refuse to put us in ghettos, it’ll be up to our fellow Jewish ‘leaders’ to do the job. I mean, they’d be out of a job, otherwise.
I was just looking at headlines and saw these.
Is Glen Beck really any different from the Hoyers or the Hoyers any different from him. They both say the same thing.
21:44 Glenn Beck at Caesarea rally: No matter what our governments say, we stand with you (Haaretz (AP)
And more and more US politicians talk like Israeli Barak…primitive, thug talk.
18:17 Barak: Those who act against Israel will have their heads separated from their bodies (Haaretz)
The country in the world most in need of a revolution is the US…maybe we will get around to it after a while.
Anyone else of that 81 congresspersons blogging with a comment option? Might be interesting.
Oh this timing is too good!
I just got a fund raising call from the DNC 10 minutes ago..on Sunday yet.
I let the lady finish her talk about why I should support the party and then I lost it.
I flipped to the 81′s trip to Israel, and the JP Hoyer article where he promises Israel all our money and read it to her, and then to current Meehan quotes, and then to my copies of Hillary’s, Obama’s, Hoyer, Reid and Wasserman speeches to AIPAC and read the relevant quotes off to her.
And then I really lost it and told her exactly what I though should be done to these politicians, dems and repubs alike which I won’t repeat here.
Poor woman, she was sympathetic and wanted to give me the number of someone at the party headquarters I should talk to about this. I told her been there done that, they don’t care what Americans think.
Finally I said look, I’m not a Jew or a Zionist or a Christian Zionist or a Defense contractor or a WS trader or a Drug manufacturer or a Union member or the CEO of some offshore multinational so I don’t see any reason to give my money to elect politicians who don’t work for Americans.
I did apologize for taking it out on her though….but she said….” I don’t blame you”.
Made my f***** day.
Something tells me she was hearing this a lot.
Something tells me she was hearing this a lot.
If all this goes south, and the worse happens, so much of what will happen can be traced back to silencing people’s complaints.
The Catholic Church, for all its inquisitions and tortures and whatever else it did to stay in power for 1500 years, understood one thing: Mardi Gras before Lent. Every year. Two weeks of anything goes, screw anything, drink anything, say anything, and no retributions. Let the people let off steam.
If I were running Israel, I would have two weeks of Anti-Semitism Carnival, and attempt to make it global, annually. Invite the raunchiest, most despicable cartoons, plays, movies, street festivals possible. We all know it would take less than two years to turn it into the greatest laugh-fest going. And the end result it that it would get rid of it.
But that’s not what Israel wants, or it wouldn’t be able to put its hands into everyone’s pockets and wallets. Israel can’t survive without anti-semitism.
Agree they have to have enemies …lots of them…anti semites, Arabs, Europeans. If Israel vanquished the Arabs and Iran they would have a new enemy and new existential threat the next day.
For the zios the world is their enemy…..it’s their business model and their way of life.
Enjoyed this story, American. Any chance such notes trickle upwards in the organisation, as a statistic? At least Pat Meehan must have read them on his own site.
just heard, ICC says Qadaffi detained!
“Thanks to Annie”
Chuckle.
poa, originally i just sent him the link and suggested he read the comments, he thanked me and i did tell phil i deserved no credit and sent him the link to your comment. i do mine the comment section for material. if you find something post worthy send it to him and he’ll give you credit.
Gimmee a break, Annie.
I am not interested in “credit”.
You misinterpreted my chuckle. Don’t worry about it, it was a harmless thought.
well, you brought it up. either way if you find a good link send it to phil or adam because the site thrives on good material and thanks for bringing it to our attention.
This thread is especially apropos for a few comments of mine that have been censored, not allowed to appear. The irony is that many of you are expressing the same opinions, thoughts and sentiments, albiet with a bit less explanation.
Perhaps if I call the scum in DC “maggots” instead of “sluts”, Weiss & Co. will allow me to express myself candidly.
Or, perhaps its much easier to take a cue from Daily Kos, and simply banish thoughts and opinions that make them uncomfortable.
I won’t attempt to express my opinion about the inevitable rise in anti-semitism that Israel’s actions are sure to foster, except in this brief sentence.
Apparently, if I opine further, no matter how succinctly, or honestly, the post simply won’t appear, which makes it a waste of my time.
I think you may be paraniod from being beat up by zios elsewhere.
Just don’t use s**** and similar words.
I think there has been some strange censorship going on, American. One of my comments which to my mind said nothing inflammatory – except to say that one of the earlier comments by dimadok was so outrageous that it might, if I wasn’t aware of where it was coming from, be sarcastic – was deleted. That’s about as strong as it got! It seemed to me a model of courtesy. I’ve never had a comment censored on this site before and I’ve been far more angry and less self-disciplined.
Had the same problem occasionally Straightline, but again I really think it’s a glitch. I re-posted if I noticed it not appearing and it always went thru.
You’re wrong. My posts were not allowed to appear due to the content of my opinions, rather than the semantics. I was called “anti-semitic”, directly, when I inquired via email the reasons for my recent banishment.
Apparently, it is anti-semitic to comment at length on the FACT that Israel’s actions will inevitably lead to increased global anti-semitism. One post that was censored from appearing, was described as an “excellent” essay by my Jewish housemate, and she was pretty amazed when it was not allowed.
Imagine, if you will, what an Israeli instigated attack on Iran, that escalates into a global nuclear conflict, (as it may well do), would do to the global sentiment about “Jews”. Millions, perhaps billions, dead, all due to an Israeli attack on Iran. Is anyone here naive enough to think that such an event would not cause widespread and universal anti-semitism?
Why is Mondoweiss censoring such predictions?
POA, that arguable prediction, basically WW3 stemming from Israeli attack on Iran & US ASAP supporting Israel, or a combined attack by the two on Iran, has been made many times on this web site, including by me. I’m not sure if anyone has included in such prediction a consequential rise of anti-semitism, but it makes sense to me judging by what I know of world history. I find it difficult to believe Phil, Adam or staff would exclude an essay merely for saying so.
Oh for God’s frickin’ sake, this is ridiculous! When you write a comment, send a copy to the clipboard. If your comment does not appear, take the copied comment and shoot it in again. It was probably just a bandwidth problem, or they confused your comment with one of mine.
POA…I think Mooser is right. I had comment not appear the other day and I think some just get lost or over looked by the monitor or they don’t fully load. I just re-posted it and it went thur.
On the other hand I did have one comment rejected once when I totally lost it and went for the jugular of a certain zio and slashed and burned thru his Israeli Jewish supremacy attitude with some devastating stuff that I knew was antisemitic sounding but in my temper fit of the moment I didn’t care. After I calmed down I was relieved it was caught.
There is little censorship here so I don’t know what the problem was with what you wrote. But there are some that would like to see this site reviled and disappear so it behooves us not to necessarily censor ourselves but to express our opinions in the right words.
this again:
is it completely lost on you have made this point over and over and over here and keep complaining how you can’t? i’m so over extended conversations about the moderation policy here. maybe the moderators are just fed up w/it. meanwhile i have personally informed you how i’m repulsed by some of your sexist rhetoric, as others have also (i have never told you to check the comment policy, but you might think of trying that). instead of listening you double down and explain why using the word ‘slut’ is fine.
this is turning into one of those daily kos type discussion about appropriate discourse, one used repeatedly to divert the topic and use up endless reams of bandwidth over on that other site. basically your complaint is directed towards the site moderation system. we hear you. you want more talk about how anti semitism is the responsibility of israel. this theme is one you find important and you are blaming the site or the mods because everytime you bring it up nobody seems to be chomping at what you call the FACT .
complain complain complain yet not really considering the possibility some of your comments might just violate the site policy.
and if they do not like the term maggots used to describe people i am sure you will be back complaining about it.
everyone here has the opportunity to turn this comment section about this congressperson’s trip to israel into a rag session about the mod policy. EVERYONE. chomp chomp chomp.
any more takers?
i’ve had comments disappear. i just re entered them.
I think we should bear in mind that the best means to weaken Mondoweiss is to provoke or elicit comments that could plausibly be advertised to normal people as ‘anti-Semitic’.
“POA…I think Mooser is right.”
I’ve been reading and commenting at Mondoweiss for over a year. Mondoweiss can be very reliable and quick for many weeks, or it can have glitches, not to mention the vagaries of whatever the local internet connection is.
I guess that either Meehan or someone in his office did not like the comments. They all have been removed and comments are closed.
Obviously he can’t take the heat.
whoa, i thought that was a cached link? shit..i should have copied it all. i hope someone did.
i googled some of these comments and found a small segment were cached here.
Thanks Annie.
Of course MSNBC, CNN did not touch this critical issue
Anyone hear anything on NPR
Don’t know if I missed it on this page but is there a screenshot of the comments anywhere? I read through a few of the ones in the beginning yesterday but didn’t finish all.
Look, I’ve lived, or at least been incarcerated, in many states in America (all above the Mason-Dixon line, of course, I’m no fool) and the only time, the only time ever, ever, ever, in my adult life that Christians have ever gotten mad at me or expressed the least resentment of me being Jewish is when they find out I am anti- or indeed, non- Zionist!!
I cannot remember, no matter how I cudgel what’s left of my cerebellum, a time when my being Jewish aroused resentment for any other reason!
Great comments posted at Reps site. thanks for bringing attention Phil.
Hope folks start documenting how many times and on what outlets they hear unsubstantiated claims about Iran repeated. And no challenges to the unsubstantiated claims.
Have been keeping a list for about 8 years now.
Anti semites are out there but its unlikely that they’ll play a leading role in shaping American policy towards Israel or the greater ME. It seems more likely that American Jews who are committed to social justice will be the cornerstone of a more equitable American policy vis-a-vis I/P.
Meehan’s site is now closed for comments.