Republican presidential frontrunner Rick Perry embraces former terrorist group leader Dov Hikind
Yesterday, I attended Rick Perry's press conference at the W Hotel in New York City, where the Texas Governor and Republican presidential frontrunner denounced President Barack Obama for supposedly "appeasing" America's enemies in the Middle East and failing to sufficiently support Israel. The Perry appearance was timed to pre-empt Obama's speech at the UN in which the President would reject Palestinian demands for statehood.
The most remarkable aspect of Perry's press conference was the cast of characters that assembled behind the Governor while he spoke. To Perry's immediate right was Assemblyman Dov Hikind, the former leader of the Jewish Defense League, a terrorist group responsible for bombing attacks on numerous Arab-American targets and a conspiracy to murder Republican Rep. Darrell Issa. While Hikind's collaborator Victor Vancier spent ten years in jail for firebomb attacks, Hikind was suspected by the FBI of numerous terror attacks of his own. After issuing numerous stentorian condemnations of terror, Perry handed the mic over to Hikind, who exclaimed, "I heard the Governor's speeches and I said to myself, 'He sounds like me!'" The two engaged in a sustained hug before a giant media gaggle.
To Perry's left was Dr. Solomon "Joe" Frager, who was listed on official Perry press material as the organizer of the press conference. Frager is the Chairman of the Jerusalem Reclamation Project, a front group for the Ateret Cohanim organization that steals Palestinian property in East Jerusalem and hands it over to fanatically religious Jewish families. They are the spearhead of Israel's slow motion ethnic cleansing of Silwan and the Old City. For a glimpse at the zealotry, racism and sheer sleaziness behind Ateret Cohanim's operation, watch Louis Theroux's excellent BBC documentary, "The Ultra-Zionists," which follows Ateret Cohanim's man-on-the-ground Daniel Luria as he personally orchestrates the theft of Palestinian homes.
Surrounding Perry was a sundry assortment of Jewish Israeli extremists, from Knesset Deputy Speaker Danny Danon, who advocates annexing the West Bank to punish the Palestinian Authority for pursuing statehood, to Member of Knesset Nissim Zeev, a settler from the Shas Party who has proposed "rehab centers" for homosexuals.
None of the reporters I talked to afterwards seemed to know who any of Perry's "pro-Israel" supporters were, and very few even cared. And nothing I have read so far about the event in the mainstream American media noted that it was planned by a key orchestrator of Palestinian home seizures in occupied territory, or that Perry embraced the former leader of a group listed by the FBI as a terrorist organization. To get a sense of the kind of coverage Perry earned from the mainstream press, read Politico's Ben Smith, who described Perry's speech as "moderate" and "centrist." Meanwhile, the liberal groups that howled in protest when Perry hosted a prayer rally in Houston with Christian right leaders have virtually ignored Perry's embrace of the Jewish extreme right.
It goes without saying that if an American politician meets with any Muslim or Arab leader, they will invite vehement denunciations from their opponents and face intense scrutiny from the mainstream press. This is why Obama has not visited a single mosque during his entire term as President (former White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said Obama was avoiding Muslims "out of sensitivity to the Jewish vote"). When a politician like Perry who surrounds himself with violent Jewish extremists before the national press corps, however, he is lauded as a "centrist" and treated as a serious contender.
This post originally appeared on Max Blumenthal's blog for Al Akhbar English.
Great post. Issa is no statesman, but it would be interesting if he said something.
I got this from Gush Shalom. These are real Jews who live in the Middle East and will pay the price of political failure.
“In front of our very eyes, an insane drama is being acted out. The Prime Minister of Israel is leading his citizens to Masada.
Human morality, Jewish history and the interests of Israel – all clearly show the way to being the first state in the world to recognize, in the United Nations, our neighbor state and them to enter into negations, based on equality, regarding territorial exchanges and security arrangements. After all, the Palestinian State recognizes the State of Israel in the “67 borders.
The Jewish People arose in the Land of Israel, there they developed their identity. The Palestinian People arose in Palestine, there they developed their identity.
Therefore, we sincerely welcome the expected declaration of independence by the Palestinian State, Israel’s neighbor, and within the borders at the time of our independence which were determined at the end of the War of Independence in 1949; the borders more commonly known as the ’67 borders. This is the natural right of both the Jewish and the Palestinian people – as written in Israel’s Declaration of Independence “to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign State”.
The independence of both peoples strengthens one and the other, it is both a moral and basic necessity at one and, the same time, it is the foundation upon which good, neighborly relations are built.
We, the undersigned, call on all persons seeking peace and freedom, and upon all nations to join us in welcoming the Palestinian Declaration of Independence, to support it and to work and act together in order to encourage the citizens of both countries to live together in peace, based on the ’67 borders and mutual agreement. A final and complete end to the occupation is a basic condition for the freedom of both peoples, for the realization of Israel’s Declaration of Independence and a future of peaceful coexistence.
Initial list of signatories
Larry Abramson, Artist and Prof. of the arts
Maj Gen (Ret.) Avraham Adan (“Bren”), former Commander of the Armored Corps
Prof. Chaim Adler, Israel Prize laureate
Prof. Joseph Agassi, Philosopher
Gila Almagor-Agmon, Israel Prize laureate
Shulamit Aloni, Israel Prize laureate
Prof. Eva Illouz
Oriella Ben-Zvi
Prof. Elie Barnavi, former Ambassador to France
Ilan Baruch, former Ambassador to South Africa
Prof. Yehuda Bauer, Israel Prize laureate
Prof. Haim Ben Shahar, former President of Tel Aviv University
Prof. Miriam Ben-Peretz, Israel Prize laureate
Daniel Blatman, Head of the Department for Contemporary Judaism
Prof. Menachem Brinker, Israel Prize laureate
Dr. Rafael Braun
Prof. Judith Buber Agassi
Maj Gen (Ret) Nehemiah Dagan, former Chief Education Officer
Dr. Yossi Dahan
Yael Dayan, former Member of Knesset
Brig Gen (Ret.) Prof. Eran Dolev, Commander of Health Services
Prof. Yehuda Elkana, former President of the Central European University
Brig Gen (Ret.) Yitzchak Elron, former Military Attaché in South America
Prof. Yaron Ezrahi, winner of the Political Science Society Award
Prof. Menachem Fish
Yona Fischer, Israel Prize laureate
Ari Folman, Golden Globe laureate
Prof. Haim Gans
Maj Gen (Ret.) Shlomo Gazit, former Head of Military
Intelligence, Chairman of the Jewish Agency and President of Ben Gurion University
Yair Garbuz, Emet Prize laureate
Moshe Gershuni, Israel Prize laureate
Prof. Galia Golan
Prof. Amiram Goldblum
Prof. Naomi Graetz
Tal Gutfeld
Prof. Hanoch Gutfreund, former President of the Hebrew
University
Tal Harris, CEO One Voice
Prof. Galit Hasan-Rokem
Prof. Ruth Hacohen
Lahav Halevy
Prof. David Harel, Israel Prize and Emet laureate
Dr. Shmuel Harlap, Chairman of Colmobil Limited
Prof. Naomi Chazan, former Knesset member
Yoram Kaniuk, Sapir Prize laureate
Dani Karavan, Israel Prize laureate
Prof. Avnet Katz
Prof. Elihu Katz, Israel Prize laureate
Prof. Yehoshua Kolodny, Israel Prize laureate
Ofer Lalush
Alex Levac, Israel Prize laureate
Savyon Liebrecht
Dr. Alon Liel, former Director General of Foreign Ministry
Ram Loevy, Israel Prize laureate
Prof. Avishai Margalit, Israel and Emet Prize laureate
Hanna Maron, Israel Prize laureate
Sami Michael, Emet Prize laureate
Hillel Mitlepunkt
Ohad Naharin, Israel laureate
Raz Naftali
Amoz Oz, Israel Prize laureate
Prof. Dov Pekelman
Michal Peleg
Izhar Petkin, Artist
Prof. Itamar Procaccia, Israel Prize laureate
Sefi Rachlevsky, expert on Jewish theology
Prof. Gabi Salomon, Israel Prize laureate
Dr. Aliza Savir
Prof. Hillel Schocken
Prof. Alice Shalvi, Israel Prize laureate
Maj Gen (Ret.) Nathan Sharoni, President of Council of Peace and Security
Prof. David Shulman, Emet Prize laureate
Joshua Sobol, Theater Award laureate
Prof. Zeev Sternhell, Israel Prize laureate
Prof. Carlo Strenger
David Tartakover, Israel Prize laureate
Dan Tsur, Israel Prize laureate
Prof. Zeev Tzahor, President of Sapir College
Micha Ullman, Israel Prize laureate
Lia van Leer, Israel Prize laureate
Prof. Menahem Yaari, Israel Prize laureate, President (Emeritus) of the Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities
Dalia Yairi
Prof. Yossi Yonah
Prof. Yirmiyahu Yovel, Israel Prize laureate
Clil Zisaphel
Max, sounds like you are having a rough day. Go take a break, have a some Osem chicken soup with some Carmel wine, it will relax you.
Chicken soup?
What’s the matter longliveisrael? Did you and biorabbi overdose on the valium?
I don’t know, I kind of like it when the Israelis have nothing but personal attacks to contribute. It sort of proves the point about how their culture values viciousness and throwing away modern conventions of civility.
True, it betrays their lack of any substantive arguments. The usual riposte is to wheel out the fantasy version of history, blatant lies and myths or just attack and smear hysteria. They know it is BS but they just don’t care, they are consumed by themselves.
what a schmuck. what do the jdl, vancier, hikind, and other baruch goldstein worshippers (do you still have your jdl trading card collection lli?) have to do with chicken soup?
Ben Smith must have realized his words were ill-conceived. He now writes:
“UPDATE: There was one point at which Perry seemed — though it wasn’t all that clear what he was talking about — to step well beyond current policy. Asked if the Israelis could continue building settlements — and the word “settlements” refers to an array of things — he said, “I think so, it’s their land.”
Perry, like another recent Governor of Texas, is a disaster when veering off the carefully crafted script of his handlers. Sometimes the stupidity just outs.
Louis Theroux’s doc no longer available due to numerous third party complaints to youtube of copyright infringements. The name David Lynch is quoted 3 times. You’d think somebody (or rather someONE) didn’t want the world to know the truth! :-(
here is a better link
link to liveleak.com
It looks good. Mondo ought to post it up on the front page sometime
thanks iamuglow..
If I was an American and this nutcase Perry became President I would emigrate. This is going too far. He’s a medievalist. He says the theory of evolution has “some holes in it”, he’s a climate warming denier even as his state his burning up. He claims because he’s a “Christian” he supports Israel, but it isn’t Christian to support an apartheid state. Decent Americans need to wake up and stop this man turning the USA into a Christian Saudi Arabia. I am amazed that apart from a few loony Christian fundamentalists anyone take him seriously at all.
I couldn’t have said it better myself. The fact that he actually has a good chance to win the election is terrifying. He would undoubtedly lead America to another war in the ME. Iran, here we come
The loonies here are not few here. That’s the cross we bear for winning the civil war 150 years ago.
Andrew Sullivan:
“Perry and Palin are on record wanting more settlements on the West Bank; for them, Israel is the most important ally on earth because it is deemed to be so by the Old Testament. Add some End-Times theology about the growing number of Jews in ancient Jewish lands and bingo! you have what passes for foreign policy.”
Mencken .
link to jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. ”
I thought he meant Bush but there is no floor to the insanity
Perry is the new Washington carpetbagger.
I think he will be associated too much to GWB.
People are still angry about the last 11 years,
so I cant see a majority voting for this knob.
But, I’ve been surprised in the past.
Perry and GW both seem to shoot from the hip.
Only if Americans let it happen.
I’m glad someone involved with Mondo got in. I tried, but since I wasn’t on the list, I wasn’t allowed in by the event staff.
The lack of comment about KM Danon is even more duplicitous because he was on Fox News just last week:
link to foxnews.com
This wackjob Perry should terrify any American citizen that has more than two brain cells to rub together. The global community should be concerned as well.
us canucks need someone more wacky then harper here in canada to take some of the pressure off… perry suffices…
an open letter to governor rick perry
you just hugged the former leader of the jewish defense league, a terrorist organization
one of its members killed alex odeh on october 11, 1985
blew him to kingdom come with a bomb planted in the front door to his office in santa ana, california
alex was west coast director of the american-arab anti-discrimination committee
he was 41years old, left a wife and two children
he was a poet, a peacemaker, a gentle and caring person
loved and appreciated by all who knew him
how could you embrace a former leader of this terrorist group?
have you no conscience?
Oh, this is lovely indeed. How many if you so-called peace activists have embraced Haniyeh or Meshaal of Hamas who have a hell of a lot of civilian blood on their hands.
Haniyeh or Meshaal don’t have a tenth of the blood on their hands that Netenyahu, Olmert, Rabin or Shamir do.
Ha ha, what a drama queen you are, ill.
Drama queening is both the style and content of the Jewish Holocaust Religion, which has joined forces with the Christian Apocalypse Religion, both virulent contemporary forms of faith teaching the sinister fantasy of bulk terror to come on this earth. Their real nemesis is Individualism born in the Enlightenment Era, the liberty to take responsibility for one’s personal actions a la Kant, which requires self-awareness.
***Pro-Palestinian has no drama queens, of course. Only overacting hams.
hey, this thread is about struggle here in america, not in the middle east where, as everyone on mw knows, there’s back & forth violence. here it’s from rightwing terrorist groups, such as the jewish defense league. the left is totally nonviolent. has been so since the vietnam war.
Truth is, eventually, our “Fourth Estate” (in ignoring stories such as this) is going to grease the skids for one of these fucking fanatics like Perry to get his hands on the nuclear trigger.
Perhaps this is the time it will happen. Yesterday he said that (as a Christian) he has a directive from God to “support Israel”. So, do any of you doubt some wackjob Christian zealot like Perry might come to believe that God has directed them to nuke someone?
Whats the difference between some jackass saying God has mandated “supporting Israel”, opposed to some crazy Aryan racist saying that God has mandated “supporting white people”???? Both examples are putting forth a pretty cut and dried “no matter what” kind of premise. And Perry is blathering on about God’s sanctions, while in the company of men whose souls are quite likely owned by the devil.
(Figuratively speaking, of course. I don’t believe in the devil. But surely, EVIL is real, and these guys exude IT like a cold sweat.)
Edward Said on the dead end of the religious claim as the basis of political rights.
link to youtube.com
“The only way you can back it up is to say, well, God gave it to us”.
RE: “To Perry’s immediate right was Assemblyman Dov Hikind, the former leader of the Jewish Defense League, a terrorist group responsible for bombing attacks on numerous Arab-American targets” ~ Blumenthal
FROM WIKIPEDIA:
SOURCE – link to en.wikipedia.org
“I don’t believe in the devil. But surely, EVIL is real, ”
da evil = the devil…
I agree… don’t believe in the ‘devil’ –
the word ‘evil’ spelled backwards is ‘live’
the ultra-zio crowd get their hooks in early to all potential useful tools of israel – remember when suddenly Sarah Palin was shadowed and then openly led by Randy Scheunemann?
Rumsfeld helped organized Perry’s foreign policy team in July. Picked Douglas Feith.
Douglas Feith
link to slate.com
Gen Tommy Franks called him “the fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth.”
Great post. Keep the investigation going, Max.
Exposing all these connections in the network
is critical to the public, since the mainstream
press is complacent with their corporate salaries
and ass-kissing ventures to their political
masters. Although you probably know it much better
than me.
Max
“None of the reporters I talked to afterwards seemed to know who any of Perry’s “pro-Israel” supporters were, and very few even cared. And nothing I have read so far about the event in the mainstream American media noted that it was planned by a key orchestrator of Palestinian home seizures in occupied territory, or that Perry embraced the former leader of a group listed by the FBI as a terrorist organization. To get a sense of the kind of coverage Perry earned from the mainstream press, read Politico’s Ben Smith, who described Perry’s speech as “moderate” and “centrist.” Meanwhile, the liberal groups that howled in protest when Perry hosted a prayer rally in Houston with Christian right leaders have virtually ignored Perry’s embrace of the Jewish extreme right.”
As is always the case Max digs down. Thanks
Perry did take a beating last night on MSNBC for attempting to trump and undermine President Obama’s speech at the UN.
Were Douglas Feith and William Luti there collecting checks? Over at Race for Iran awhile back Flynt Leverett stated that Perry’s foreign policy team is being led by Feith and Luti.
Flynt Levertt references Foreign Policy.com
“ForeignPolicy.com reports, see here, say that Perry’s foreign policy and national security briefings are being organized by former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and feature such Iraq war masterminds as Doug Feith and Bill Luti. ”
link to raceforiran.com
One of President Obama’s lines during his UN speech was a very dangerous and false statement about Iran.
Obama at the UN “Israel is a small country of less than 8 million people look at a world where leaders of much larger nations threaten to wipe them off the map”
This is the clip that Chris Matthews or his producers chose to play during his segment with Howard Fineman and Joan Walsh from Salon. Not one of these well informed savvy individuals chose to bring any attention to this debunked and false statement. Again allowing this inflammatory and false statement about Iran”s President to be repeated once again. This is dangerous dangerous.
The segment on Hardball “Perry attacks Obama on Middle East Peace”
Obama’s false statement about the Iranian President’s statements about Israel
link to msnbc.msn.com
Professor Juan Cole at Informed Comment debunked this false statement that has endlessly been repeated in our MSM by Reps, Obama, Clinton etc long ago.
link to juancole.com
“Whatever this quotation from a decades-old speech of Khomeini may have meant, Ahmadinejad did not say that “Israel must be wiped off the map” with the implication that phrase has of Nazi-style extermination of a people. He said that the occupation regime over Jerusalem must be erased from the page of time. ”
——————————————————-
Then this morning on Cspan’s Washington Journal the host of the program allowed Ohio Republican Rep Chabot to repeat more inflammatory and false statements about Iran. Repeating the debunked “Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map” and then repeating unsubstantiated and very dangerous claims that Iran is working on nuclear weapons. The host did not interrupt or challenge.
The 45 minute segment that Rep Chabot was on focused on the I/P conflict, the UN bid. Anyone think Washington Journal will have a guest on with an opposing view about this issue?
The clip of Chabot is not up. Rep Chabot has legislation up cutting Palestinian aide
“Rep. Steve Chabot (R-OH), Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on the Middle East & South Asia – Chairman, discusses his non-binding resolution calling for the withholding of the United States’ U.N. funding if the General Assembly recognizes a Palestinian state.”
link to c-span.org
Camera has a watch CSpan effort going on at their site where they document every comment about Israel, Iran that they do not like. Many people call in with facts. Camera defines almost every caller as anti semitic.
Camera has had to hammer Washington Journal so much that almost every host interrupts anyone stating any comment about Israel with “where do you get your information” Now if the host of Washington Journal would just apply those same questions to those who repeat unsubstantiated claims about Iran.
Camera’s CSpan watch site
link to camera.org
“This is the clip that Chris Matthews or his producers chose to play during his segment with Howard Fineman and Joan Walsh from Salon. Not one of these well informed savvy individuals chose to bring any attention to this debunked and false statement.”
I didn’t notice any Iranian leader trying to debunk it. Maybe you should try and stop doing their work for them.
Hophmi I know this is beyond your capabilities but I really do not want to my country to use military action against Iran or for them to support Israel doing so. Enough innocent people dead, injured, displaced..don’t you think
“I really do not want to my country to use military action against Iran or for them to support Israel doing so.”
I don’t think you have to worry too much about it. But denying that Iran is hostile toward Israel is a little silly.
I certainly will not deny that Israel is far far more hostile towards Iran that Iran is towards Israel. Far more hostile and threatening
Sometimes, Kathleen, I’m just not sure what planet you’re living on. It’s just so symptomatic of your inability to step outside of your own narrow intellectual comfort zone that you do things like go out of your way to suggest that Iran’s intentions toward a state it refuses to even recognize are somehow benign. Everyone with a working brain understands that Iran hates Israel. Iran won’t even recognize Israel is a state.
The man just stood in front of the GA and questioned the Holocaust and all you can do is quibble about whether the proper translation of what he told the “World without Zionism” conference is “wipe off the map” or “vanish from the pages of time.”
“I didn’t notice any Iranian leader trying to debunk it. Maybe you should try and stop doing their work for them.”
What kind of position is this?? It is okay to lie so long as it benefits the Israelis??
hey Woody, after umpty-ump years you’re still surprised at this!
Why, “lies are us” is almost an anagram of Israel US!
you got it.
Does not matter how many people might be killed pushing that agenda
“What kind of position is this?? It is okay to lie so long as it benefits the Israelis??”
I don’t think it’s a lie. I think it’s one translation of what was said, a translation the Iranians were apparently responsible for before it was altered. And more importantly, it’s a sentiment that has been expressed by Iranian leaders before.
“I don’t think it’s a lie. I think it’s one translation of what was said, a translation the Iranians were apparently responsible for before it was altered.”
No, it is a lie. Regardless of whether how it was initially translated incorrectly and by who — that’s a non-issue. People make mistakes, including mistranslations and poor translations all the time. I would not fault anyone for intially relying on these false translations, at first, before the mistranslation was noted.
But at this point in time, enough knowledgable people have confirmed exactly what was said, sufficient that the words were mistranslated is a fact beyond dispute. He did not say “wipe off the map.”
Anyone who says that he did, now, is either lying or ignorant. The president has sufficient resources to know that, so he cannot be said to be ignorant. Thus, he must be lying.
“And more importantly, it’s a sentiment that has been expressed by Iranian leaders before.”
Here’s where the lie becomes a damned lie. What “sentiment”??? You, and the other one-trick ponies who share your victim complex, will paint the statement “wipe off the map” the non-Jews as wishing genecide on Jews, regardless of the fact that what he actually said dealt with the end of the Israeli state and the return of Jewish immigrants to their countries of origin.
Now, we can disagree with these things enough that we don’t need to pretend that they are anything but what they are. But that is apparently not enough for the victim brigade who don’t seem to know what to think or say if they can’t paint their opponants as Hitler.
” People make mistakes, including mistranslations and poor translations all the time. I would not fault anyone for intially relying on these false translations, at first, before the mistranslation was noted.”
Again, if it’s such a big lie, how come no one from Iran seems to be taking the time to debunk it? The translation was made by Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting and the Islamic Republic News Agency, both government media.
The apparently correct translation is that the Zionist regime should vanish from the pages of time. And, by the way, that’s how MEMRI translated it. The people who have worked the hardest to “debunk” the translation are Arash Norouzi and Juan Cole. Neither one lives in Iran, to my knowledge, and certainly neither one represents the regime.
Anyone who knows anything about translation knows that it is not always literal; idioms in one language can be used to translate statements from another in which those idioms do not exist. It’s a matter of interpretation. Apparently, English state media in Iran had no trouble interpreting what their President meant.
But look, Woody, let’s keep it simple. If Bibi Netanyahu gave a speech to a gathering called “A World without Islamic Nationalism” and said that the Iranian regime should vanish from the pages of time, would you say he was expressing something benign or belligerent? And if Israeli state media released an initial translation saying that Iran should be wiped off the map and I came here and said that what Bibi said really meant “vanish from the pages of time”, would you concede and say “Oh. That’s completely different”?
Bill Kristol, Gaffney, Bolton, Reuel Marc Gerecht, Terry Gross (repeats this false statement endlessly), Robert Siegel, Cheney, Ledeen, McCain, Clinton, Andrea Mitchell, Rachel Maddow etc etc have all repeated this. This is the echo chamber of false claims. The neo con thugs know exactly how this works. That is exactly how Dennis Ross, Bill Clinton pinned the failure of those talks on Arafat. This is exactly how all of the false WMD claims traveled over the air waves.
“And more importantly, it’s a sentiment that has been expressed by Iranian leaders before.”
Where when link?
The neo theo oil cons bank on their purposeful mistranslations
“Again, if it’s such a big lie, how come no one from Iran seems to be taking the time to debunk it? ”
The Iranian foreign minister did, and you don’t care. So, what? Do you expect them to do, keep bringing it up again and again? Why? There’s no chance they will get a fair hearing in the West, especially with the media being in the bag for Israel and the US imperial policies, so what is the point?
“The apparently correct translation is that the Zionist regime should vanish from the pages of time. ”
Exactly. And saying that they threatened to wipe someone from the map is, therefore, a lie.
“Anyone who knows anything about translation knows that it is not always literal; idioms in one language can be used to translate statements from another in which those idioms do not exist. ”
In some ways, yes, and in some ways, no. It depends on the statement. If the statement at issue isn’t an idiom, then it should be literally translated. And that raised the question of whether the idiom in the new language is the equal of the idiom in the old.
And when a passive wish is translated as a supposed call to war — as is the case with the change from “the regime vanish from the pages of time” to the threat to “wipe them off the face of the map” — then one is not translating properly. But that’s not the real crime. The real crime is to use that as a justification for the type of insane sabre-rattling and acts of war which have been the Israeli stock in trade for decades in relation to its neighbors.
“If Bibi Netanyahu gave a speech to a gathering called ‘A World without Islamic Nationalism’ and said that the Iranian regime should vanish from the pages of time, would you say he was expressing something benign or belligerent?”
The issue here isn’t benign or belligerent. They are adversaries based on the actions of the Israelis regarding the Palestinians they are keeping them as subjects, serf, prisoners or worse, as well as based on the two countries struggling for dominence in the region. So one would expect each country’s statements about the other to be belligerent.
Further, it’s a false argument here, because you Zios don’t use the lie “wipe of the map” to merely state that Iran is being belligerent toward Israel.
You use it for more diabolical reasons. Because there’s a difference between wishing that the Zionist regime disappears and wishing that Zionists are killed. Nothing wrong with the first, but you try to paint it like he’s wishing for the second. And that’s crap.
“And if Israeli state media released an initial translation saying that Iran should be wiped off the map and I came here and said that what Bibi said really meant ‘vanish from the pages of time’, would you concede and say ‘Oh. That’s completely different’?”
Yes, I would. If it was not a correct translation, then it is not a correct translation. I gain nothing by pretending that someone said something that they didn’t say.
But the difference here is that I wouldn’t have an unthining, knee-jerk opposition to Netanyahu, like your unthinking victim-panic that you have whenever someone opposes Israel. I agree with the sentiment that the Iranian regime should be disappear from the pages of time along with the Zionist regime. You, on the other hand, are on a truffle hunt to find each and every bad thought about Zionism, so that you can feed the victim monkey on your back. That’s the difference.
“The Iranian foreign minister did, and you don’t care.” Link?
“And when a passive wish is translated as a supposed call to war”
Who are you to call it a passive wish? This is country who is fond of letting people know when they develop missiles with the range to reach Israel.
If this were a murder trial, a statement by the defendant wishing the victim would “vanish from the pages of time” would be relevant in proving intent.
“The issue here isn’t benign or belligerent.”
No, it isn’t, because it’s crystal clear that it’s belligerent.
“You use it for more diabolical reasons. Because there’s a difference between wishing that the Zionist regime disappears and wishing that Zionists are killed. Nothing wrong with the first, but you try to paint it like he’s wishing for the second. And that’s crap.”
Oh, please. Iran has been funding terrorism for many years. It’s not a secret.
“But the difference here is that I wouldn’t have an unthining, knee-jerk opposition to Netanyahu, like your unthinking victim-panic that you have whenever someone opposes Israel”
Sure. There’s nothing about you that says knee-jerk. LOL.
“You, on the other hand, are on a truffle hunt to find each and every bad thought about Zionism, so that you can feed the victim monkey on your back. ”
Not really. Again, simply ask yourself why the Arab states in the region are more frightened of Iran than they are of Israel.
“Link?”
Do your own homework.
“Who are you to call it a passive wish?”
I’m someone who knows how to read. Nothing more is required.
“This is country who is fond of letting people know when they develop missiles with the range to reach Israel.”
You mean Israel, the nuclear-armed country that repeatedly threatens to attack it, and has repeatedly stated an ability to hit Iran??? Why, I can’t imagine ANY reason why Iran might be concerned about Israel…. Holy smokes. They’re adversaries. That’s what adversaries do. If Israel has too fragile a constitution to understand this, they shouldn’t be a belligerent.
“If this were a murder trial, a statement by the defendant wishing the victim would ‘vanish from the pages of time’ would be relevant in proving intent.”
So? It’s not a murder trial, it’s politics, so your analogy is dumb. It is the equivalent of Reagan talking about the dustbin of history. Rhetoric.
“No, it isn’t, because it’s crystal clear that it’s belligerent. “
But so what? They’re adversaries. Belligerency is to be expected. What do you expect; Israelis call them the new hitlers and threaten to attack their country and the Iranians are supposed to just laugh it off?
“Oh, please. Iran has been funding terrorism for many years. It’s not a secret.”
And Israel has been committing terrorism for many years. Also no secret.
“Sure. There’s nothing about you that says knee-jerk. LOL.”
Typical.
“Not really. Again, simply ask yourself why the Arab states in the region are more frightened of Iran than they are of Israel.”
Because of power politics fueled by intra-Muslim cultural conflicts. Duh. Take away the bribe money which the USA pays to various Arab states to play nice with the Zionists and my guess is that you’d see some significant changes in the region.
Phil, Annie, Adam etc really think you are going to want to listen to what Rep Chabot had to say about the UN vote etc. Anyone think Washington Journal will have a guest on with an opposing or fact based views?
“Then this morning on Cspan’s Washington Journal the host of the program allowed Ohio Republican Rep Chabot to repeat more inflammatory and false statements about Iran. Repeating the debunked “Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map” and then repeating unsubstantiated and very dangerous claims that Iran is working on nuclear weapons. The host did not interrupt or challenge.
The 45 minute segment that Rep Chabot was on focused on the I/P conflict, the UN bid. Anyone think Washington Journal will have a guest on with an opposing view about this issue?
The clip of Chabot is not up. Rep Chabot has legislation up cutting Palestinian aide
“Rep. Steve Chabot (R-OH), Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on the Middle East & South Asia – Chairman, discusses his non-binding resolution calling for the withholding of the United States’ U.N. funding if the General Assembly recognizes a Palestinian state.”
link to c-span.org ”
Rep Chabot repeated all of Israel and the I lobbies talking points
link to c-span.org
“Israel is our strongest ally”
“Arafat walked away from middle east talks” Dennis Ross’s work in our media
go get Iran bad bad Iran
You are correct, Kathleen, I watched the show too.
Hey Max, great news. Aliyah to Israel up 20%
link to jpost.com
it doesn’t mention how many left tho. any data on that?
how many israelis live in the US? isn’t it in the hundreds of thousands?
Unfortunately, so is the rate of emigration .
Israelis Leave Their ‘Promised Land’
link to news.independent.co.uk
Wealthy Jews Now Leaving Israel
link to godlikeproductions.com
Every Second Person Leaving Israel Is a FSU Immigrant
link to idi.org.il
The Jews want to leave Israel, apparently
“Since the year 2000, net emigration (i.e. the total of emigration over immigration) is about 10,000 a year, give or take.”
link to jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com
of course, your own link admits that:
“…we haven’t seen a dramatic rise in the numbers and that’s why we believe strengthening Jewish identity will bring more people from North America to Israel,” said JAFI Chairman Natan Sharansky in response to the new numbers.”
So yeah, good luck with those extra immigrants LLI. It’s looks like you’re going to need them,
Sorry to burt your bubble, but I couldn’t resist.
It’s closer to a million Annie.
Completely wrong as usual.
It’s at most 100,000.
link to jewishfederations.org
No Hop,
It was around 700,000 in 2005 and that number is climbing.
link to consortiumnews.com
The great majority of these were Jews. In addition, polls show that at least 60 percent and as high as 80 percent of remaining Israeli Jews “sympathize with those who leave the country.”
link to samsonblinded.org
At present, the United States has issued over half a million passports to Israelis and a quarter million additional applications are pending. Germany runs second with 100,000 passports given to Israeli Jews and 7,000 new ones issued yearly.
link to almanar.com.lb
The question is how many Israelis LIVE in the US.
None of the these articles suggest that it’s 700,000 or million.
hophmi, the link you cited,although not dated, refers to 1997 as its latest year of included statistics. That’s 14 years ago.
A report from only 6 years (2005) ago states:
link to somethingjewish.co.uk
That’s about 450,000 living in the US and Canada.
And from earlier this year,
link to mideast.foreignpolicy.com
Citing the same 60 percent in North America that means that 480,000 to 600,000 Israelis living in the US and Canada.
And then there is this:
(from second link above
None of the these articles suggest that it’s 700,000 or million.
And none of them, except for your one article from the late ’90s suggest its “at most 100,000″ as you claim. (Actually, your article doesn’t even suggest “at most”. One estimate it cites is 340,000 Israelis living abroad according to Israeli government sources, with roughly half of them in the US, making it 170,000 in the late 1990s.)
The current low end seems to be around 400,000 and the high end is around 600,000 with all indications leaning towards increasing numbers in the future.
wow, you realize you just linked to God Like Productions?
link to godlikeproductions.com
Do you believe Ashkenazim are reptilians also Shingo?
Is it safe to assume you ignored EVERY OTHER LINK that was cited on this thread just so you could troll about that one? I’ll confess it was foolish for Shingo to link that, but you aren’t about to suggest that the Independent is lunatic fringe, are you DBG? Or how about the Israeli Democracy Institute? I’ll admit the name sounds oxymoronic to me at first blush, but I still took a look and maintained critical analysis.
Point taken, but that’s an ad hhominem isn’t it BDG?
I did a Google search and that link included a further link to the stats. Would you dispute that the earth was round if that web site agreed?
Perry screwed his chances at the debate in Orlando–on the illegal immigration issue and on SS issue. Lots of Repubs will switch to Romney. Perry sure is rough around the edges for a long time governor. I keep thinking he just stepped out of the cow pasture or coal mine.