Germany takes a toy away from the spoiled child

on 32 Comments

Here is further evidence that in the wake of the U.S. opposition to Palestinian statehood, the world is forcing America out of the cockpit of the conflict. The New York Times’s Robert Mackey picks up a German report that the Germans will back out of its commitment to help pay for an Israeli submarine because the Germans are enraged by Israel’s determination to expand the Gilo settlement in East Jerusalem.

Remember that Netanyahu lectured Angela Merkel when she presumed to criticize him on the matter a month or so back, because he thought he could get away with it. Remember that Turkish P.M. Erdogan declared Israel the west’s “spoiled child” (giving me my headline).

So: Israel’s isolation continues, and so does American isolation.

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32 Responses

  1. Kathleen
    November 2, 2011, 9:38 am

    Israel undermining their own national security for years as well as US national security
    Micheal Scheuer (former head of the CIA’s Bin Laden unit)
    link to
    Motivating enemies: Interventionists and the UN veto
    By mike | Published: September 21, 2011

    “For most of a decade I have said in books, articles, interviews, and speeches that America’s war with the growing Islamist movement is motivated by the Islamists’ belief that U.S. foreign policy is an attack on their faith and brethren. Generally, this effort has been akin to yelling into a closet. The dominance of pro-Saudi and especially pro-Israel political influence and money in both political parties, the media, and the academy is just too strong to allow more than fleeting opportunities to tell Americans that they — and their soldier-children — are and will continue to be at war because of the impact in the Muslim world of the foreign policy of Washington and its NATO allies.

    This week, however, all Americans have a chance to see for themselves how Washington‘s bipartisan, interventionist foreign policy provides our Islamist enemies with their main motivation and encourages young Muslim males to seek out membership in Islamist organizations fighting the United States and its allies. If the Palestinian Authority’s president, Mahmoud Abbas, goes ahead and asks the United Nations to recognize Palestine as an UN member state, and the Obama Administration then vetoes the chance of a positive response — as would any Republican administration — Americans will see clearly and unequivocally how a U.S. foreign policy decision motivates Islamists to war and provides them with their major source of unity and enduring cohesiveness. Actions cause reactions, and, in this case, the pro-Israel lobby will have a harder time than usual telling Americans that U.S. foreign policy does not promote war with Muslims. The Obama veto will surely kill Americans and promote domestic Islamist violence in the years ahead.”

    • seafoid
      November 2, 2011, 10:14 am


      I would be interested to see what Scheuer has to say on the Nuland tour de force yesterday.

      • annie
        November 2, 2011, 10:50 am

        did you mean kathleen?

        i noticed this from the lede:

        Earlier this year, Der Spiegel reported that a leaked United States diplomatic cable from 2005 suggested that Germany might have agreed to partly subsidize the submarine fleet for Israel to make amends for Holocaust-era reparations payments that East Germany had failed to make.

        The cable, which was obtained by WikiLeaks and published later by the Danish newspaper Politiken, reported that an adviser to Israel’s prime minister at the time, Ariel Sharon, told the United States Embassy in Tel Aviv:

        A [Government of Israel] working group charged with developing a five-year plan on Holocaust-era reparations, pensions and restitution is considering a recommendation that the [Government of Israel] ask Germany for about $500 million — possibly in the form of new German-made submarines — in compensation for what the [Government of Israel] says is that portion of the 1953 German-Israeli reparations agreement that had been attributed to East Germany, but never paid.

        it never ends

      • pabelmont
        November 2, 2011, 10:57 am

        German restitution to Israel (a phony to begin with because Israel is *NOT* the Jewish people) should by now be revoked in favor of German restitution to the secondary victims of the Holocaust, the Palestinians.

      • Potsherd2
        November 2, 2011, 11:17 am

        Germany can’t afford to keep bleeding money into the Israeli arms locker. It’s going to have all it can do now to keep the Euro from sinking.

      • marc b.
        November 2, 2011, 11:55 am

        how’s that for irony: germany compensating israel for germany’s annihilistic militarism, by giving advanced war-making technologies to israel.

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 2, 2011, 12:17 pm

        Europe is in its own big d*o d*o.
        The euro is falling, the UE seem to be breaking apart, euro-pockets and wallets are becoming empty, and people are becoming very , very angry.
        The european empire is losing its grip, and a hip ,hip hooray attitude about one big, friendly, happy Europe is no existing any more.
        So, Mr Netanayahu, stop sticking your hand out, and go look for your silver shekels somewhere else.
        Oh gosh, I hope he is not gonna go to Poland.

      • Ellen
        November 2, 2011, 12:17 pm

        marc b., yes it is Germany’s fault. Israel doesn’t want the advanced submarine and they do not want Germany to help pay for it.

        Isn’t all expanded militarism annihilistic?

      • seafoid
        November 2, 2011, 12:19 pm

        Yes Annie. Sorry. But keep up the great work regardless !

      • teta mother me
        November 2, 2011, 1:42 pm

        That statement demands a response, pabelmont.

        Germans did NOT occupy the homes of the Palestinian people, nor kill them. Jews did that. Germans were prostrat as of 1945; between 1945 armistice and 1948, the Allies killed an additional two to three million German civilians and disarmed German troops. In 1948 when 750,000 Palestinians were displaced from their homes, it was Jewish soldiers and Irgun terrorists who did the displacing.

        How about zionist grow up and accept accountability for their actions? How about zionists pay restitution to the Palestinian people?

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 2, 2011, 1:47 pm

        Prime minister Papandreu in Greece is doing some ” strange”, unexpected moves recently ,which make the Eurocrats to stand on their toes. It looks like this is a begining of the end of the Great Euroland and euro-currency ,which is coming down with a speed of the light.
        Panic among banksters??
        link to

      • teta mother me
        November 2, 2011, 2:02 pm

        marc b, it’s important to keep the facts straight. “germany’s annihilistic militarism” is the meme we’ve all rehearsed, but the facts are at odds —
        -Germany was quite weak, having been demilitarized post-Versailles, scarcely capable of defending itself.
        -Germany was so not-militarized that Austria was annexed by referendum.
        -Germany sought peace in 1940;
        - in contrast, Churchill lusted for war, and FDR eagerly supported Churchill in his warlust.
        -on several occasions Hitler stated publicly and openly that he did not seek war with Great Britain; Hitler’s real enemy was Bolshevist Communism, the same enemy US fought throughout Cold War years.
        -in contrast, Churchill & FDR were admirers of Stalin (just as Jabotinsky modeled zionist militarism on his idol, Mussolini).

        In sum, the epithet “annihilistic militarism” more appropriately describes Churchill and FDR.

      • American
        November 2, 2011, 2:19 pm

        I think you’re wrong on that.
        Germany ‘donated’ 2 subs for free previously to Israel
        Paid half of the cost, 350 million, of a third one to Israel.
        Paid 1/3 of the 1.27 billion for two dolphin class subs for Israel.
        And would have paid 189 to 250 million for this most recent sub requested by Israel.

        Israel fears Berlin could scrap sub deal
        Published: Oct. 28, 2011 at 1:15 PM
        AVIV, Israel, Oct. 28 (UPI) — Israel is reported to have run into difficulties with Germany over the planned sale of a sixth Dolphin class submarine supposedly capable of launching nuclear-tipped missiles, potentially a vital factor in any clash with Iran.
        The Yediot Ahronot newspaper said the problems arose from the failure of Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s right-wing government to move forward on peace negotiations with the Palestinians.
        Udi Shani, director general of the Israeli Defense Ministry, refused to confirm or deny there were problems about the submarine deal.
        German Chancellor Angela Merkel reportedly strongly criticized Netanyahu during a telephone conversation in September. She said she had “absolutely no understanding” of the Israeli government’s decision to increase settlement building in East Jerusalem, the former Arab sector of the holy city captured by Israel in 1967.
        Germany has for decades sought to accommodate Israel in atonement for the Holocaust during the Nazi era but this has been wearing thin for some time, particularly because of the global economic downturn of recent years.
        German opposition parties complain about exporting arms to regions in crisis, such as the Middle East.
        The problem may have something to do with Netanyahu’s request that Berlin pay one-third of the $500 million-$700 million cost of the advanced submarine.
        Netanyahu’s coalition approved significant cuts in the defense budget in September and this may have intensified the government’s efforts to convince Germany to defray much of the cost of the sixth submarine.
        The German newsmagazine Der Spiegel reported in July that the Berlin government had agreed to pay $189.5 million of the cost. It said the deal would be finalized within weeks but that hasn’t happened.
        Israel initially bought three of the heavily modified diesel-electric Type-209 submarines, which it designated the Dolphin class, built by the Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG shipyards in Kiel, in the late 1990s. The Germans donated two and Israel paid $350 million, half the cost, for the third.
        In 2006, Israel ordered two more Dolphins, with the Germans picking up one-third of the total cost of $1.27 billion.
        Unlike the first batch, which have to surface frequently to recharge batteries, the second batch are upgraded models with an air-independent propulsion system, based on technology that allows for silent running plus a fuel cell equipped with oxygen and hydrogen storage.
        It is believed that the Israelis want to maintain a permanent deployment of one or two Dolphins in the Red Sea-Arabian Sea region.
        This is to hit strategic targets in Iran, in conjunction with Israeli airstrikes, if conflict erupts over Tehran’s reported drive to develop nuclear weapons, and to give the Jewish state an added second strike capability if it comes under attack from Iranian ballistic missiles armed with nuclear warheads
        Read more: link to
        American October 29, 2011 at 10:56 am

      • James
        November 2, 2011, 2:43 pm

        marc – it really is quite sick isn’t it? do you think someone in germany might have been able to see this as others do?

      • pabelmont
        November 2, 2011, 2:44 pm

        teta: Well, yes, the crimes of Zionism are their own (modulo connivance and help and blocking-international-law by USA). Right now, many countries, even in EU are calling the building/settling of EJ (OEJ) “illegal” but do not propose to do anything and do not speak of doing anything to enforce international law. They regard I/L as a dead letter. so perhaps we could blame them too, not for the crimes but for the failure to deter or punish.

        But, again, YES, Germany is not at fault for Zionism’s crimes.

      • MRW
        November 2, 2011, 3:37 pm

        There are a number of submarines, annie. I think they’re bitching about the sixth one.

      • American
        November 2, 2011, 3:59 pm

        “… in compensation for what the [Government of Israel] says is that portion of the 1953 German-Israeli reparations agreement that had been attributed to East Germany, but never paid. ”

        Never paid they say? Well that’s a direct lie. You can read the German Reparations Agreement at the Wilki link below…Germany has paid over 20 billion ‘more’ than they ever even agreed to because Israel has regularly gone back to them time and again for more and the German government gave in to them.
        At the time Germany started the payments in 1953 the German payments represented 87% of Israel’s total income. And Israel used it for purposes other than the survivors. To find out what a con game Israel has played on the world people need to read Norman Finkelstein’s book The Holocaust Industry. These people have sued and are still suing literally everyone in the world and get paid off in many cases because none of the companies want the notority of fighting holocaust claims and very little, if any, of it winds up with actual holocaust survivors. Israel even went so far several years ago as to declare ‘any’ Jew that fled Europe a’ holocuast survivor’ even if they left way in advance of the war and took their money with them.
        That is what pumped up the number of holocaust survivors they claim when the actual number of real survivors is less than half of what of Israel claims because the real survivors are dying out. One of the more recent demands by Israel was for Germany to also pay ‘children’ of holocuast survivors for what their parents suffered. Which would, by Israel’s new definition of holocaust survivor, be the child of any Jew that lived in Germany even if they emigrated before the nazis targeted the Jews and any Jew that left any country Germany occupied even if they left before Germany occupied it. By this standard Germany would be paying about half of all the worlds second generation of Jews since WWII.
        I think the Germans have a right to be sick of this, as Americans have a right to be sick of paying Israelis for something the US had no responsibility for at all….this German generation, now down to the grandchildren of the nazi era, is not responsible for what the nazis did. It has to end somewhere.

        Germany Tells Israel: No More Holocaust Reparations
        Published November 22, 2007
        Associated Press

        Israeli Holocaust survivors asked Germany’s finance minister Thursday to improve a reparations arrangement set up a half-century ago, but he said no additional money would be paid.

        Survivors reasoned the original 1952 accord with Israel did not account for their unexpected longevity or apply to tens of thousands of Holocaust victims who came to Israel following the Soviet Union’s collapse.

        Finance Minister Peer Steinbrueck rejected the appeal, said Zeev Factor, a Holocaust survivor who took part in the meeting.

        “He said Germany reached an agreement with Israel on this matter … and isn’t willing to touch the agreement,” Factor said.

        Steinbrueck said that if German officials concluded problems could be resolved within the framework of the 1952 agreement, then “they will be willing to discuss it,” Factor said.
        The German Embassy did not respond to a request for comment on the meeting.

        Germany’s government has said it would be willing to discuss requests for additional payments if Israel submits a formal petition, but that so far no such request had been made.

        Israeli Finance Minister Roni Bar-On met with Steinbrueck on Thursday but did not submit a formal request for additional aid, a spokeswoman for the Israeli official said.

        Six million Jews were killed in the Nazi Holocaust of World War II, and hundreds of thousands of Jewish survivors emigrated to Israel after its creation in 1948.

        Germany has paid an estimated $25 billion in reparations to Israeli Holocaust survivors, who Factor said numbered 350,000 to 400,000 at their peak. Germany also provided more than $700 million in goods and services to the Israeli government.

        Today, some 250,000 Holocaust survivors live in Israel. They are living longer than was foreseen under the reparation agreement with Germany, with added expenses and high medical costs, survivor leaders say.
        In addition, about a third of the survivors here are not covered by the agreement, because they escaped Nazi rule by fleeing to the former Soviet Union.

        Some Israelis have argued that the country should be able to take care of its own elderly survivors without going to Germany for more money.
        After a storm of protest by Holocaust survivors who charged the government with abandoning them, the state agreed earlier this year to give the 160,000 Israelis who survived Nazi ghettos and concentration camps a monthly stipend of nearly $300, in addition to tax discounts and other breaks.
        It also approved monthly payments ranging from $40 to $125 for 80,000 survivors who came to Israel from the former Soviet Union.”

        You can check some more here:
        link to

        link to

      • marc b.
        November 3, 2011, 9:46 am

        yes, ellen, it is partly germany’s fault. and, no, i don’t think that the federal republic of germany owes a special debt to israel. and i don’t believe that germany’s current relationship with israel is exclusively defined by the memory of the holocaust. germany’s relationship with israel is based on much more than the PR bit about historical guilt.

    • American
      November 2, 2011, 2:35 pm

      I have seen Micheal Scheuer testify to congress several times on Israel and the ME.
      He is a full on extreme American firster….he doesn’t give a damn about Arabs or Israelis or any people but Americans. He’s one of the most stone cold analytical humans you will ever come across.
      And he doesn’t give a damn if congress likes what he says about Israel or not. In fact in one hearing on the subject he basically told the AIPAC congressmen who were questioning him to go fuck themselves.
      So while he’s not the most admirable ‘human’ in terms of compassion for others, if you want the flat out, objective, no bullshit truth on Israel, I/P and the ME he is The man to go to.

  2. Chaos4700
    November 2, 2011, 9:41 am

    Well, it looks like that abusive relationship is coming to an end, too. This whole fiasco is showing the world that they don’t have to dance to the US/Israel tune.

    I honestly didn’t think this would happen so quickly. It’s not like Obama hasn’t just ignored laws, even constitutional amendments really, before in his Presidency. I think those shows just how bad things are in DC — Congress and the President are literally puppets on Israel’s strings. Nothing goes on in DC that doesn’t carry Israel’s stamp of approval. This legislation that’s being enforced isn’t just not in our best interests it’s DESTRUCTIVE to our interests. And it only exists because Israel wanted to be able to blackmail the UN into being passive of their lebensraum grab.

    Holy crap is that back-firing. On all of us.

  3. Potsherd2
    November 2, 2011, 10:11 am

    Palestine will get its nine SC votes now, after this. Netanyahu is cutting off his own nose, not just Obama’s.

  4. pabelmont
    November 2, 2011, 10:21 am

    I think Arafat used the “spoiled child” phrase quite a bit. See also this from 2002 (I think)

    As to whether the long USA dominance of the world is coming to an end, don’t hold your breath. The nations are facilitating PLO action, but it is the PLO that must take the action.

    In the mean time various countries (I believe I heard on the radio this AM) are denouncing Israekl’s plan to build more housing in EJ, and remarking that settlement is “illegal”. WELL. HAH! It may be illegal, but I haven’;t heard any nation submit to the UNSC a resolution calling for enforcement of that law. UNSC 465 (1980) already called for removal of settlers and dismantlement of settlements. No teeth. And no use. Israel doesn’t hear “signals”.

    • pabelmont
      November 2, 2011, 10:48 am

      On date of Haaretz (Saudi) article: 02.01.10 : seems not to be 2002. Maybe Jan 2, 2010.

  5. edwin
    November 2, 2011, 10:32 am

    Hey! What about Canada? We’re being absolute pricks too! Isolate us.

    Damn. No body ever pays any attention to Canada.

    (and a big f-u to Dear Leader Steven Harper.)

    • pabelmont
      November 2, 2011, 11:06 am

      You have my attention. Canada and Australia are in the same deep pocket as the USA. Something sick in the English-speaking world. So sad. My father was born in Calgary, moved to California as a child.

      Perhaps you can spare a Canadian’s view on tar sands oil recovery and the proposed Keystone XL pipeline (even if it has no obvious connection to Zionism)(does it?).

      • James
        November 2, 2011, 2:48 pm

        here is a great article posted at mondoweiss a few days ago that covers some fine points extremely well..
        link to

        there is nothing ethical about the tar sands.. read the commentary in this article after you read the article for more insight..

      • MRW
        November 2, 2011, 3:52 pm

        James, you mentioned the “ethical” bit about the oil sands over there.

        Levant is using that as a campaign in order to bring Muslim hatred into it. He’s a putz and Calgary personality, a Pam Gellar.

        Why are you taking up his argument, as if energy production is ethical or not? If we don’t get our energy from Canada, we get it from the ME, which then has to travel across the ocean in huge tankers wasting more fossil fuel. Corn? We increased world hunger by boosting the price of corn 4X to feed the biofuel craze, when it takes 1.5 gallons of fossil fuel to produce a gallon of biofuel. link to

        There is no way in hell there is enough solar or wind turbine energy right now to produce enough electricity for this country. Tops, right now, it only produces 7% of our energy needs. Max. The other choices are natural gas and coal.

        So, whether you like it or not, oil is going to be around for another few decades until we wean ourselves and our vehicles off it…especially with our military demands for it.

        So for you to call the oil sands unethical, whatever that means, then is it more ethical to take it from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iraq, Venezuela, and Iran (someday)? Or is it just unethical to take it from Alberta?

        P.S. My impatience is with the topic, not with you.

      • James
        November 2, 2011, 5:13 pm

        hi mrw – i left a link on the other post about the ugly reality of the tar sands project… i am not taking up his argument, or only in so far as i am saying their is nothing ethical about the tar sands project.. i think associating ethics with taking oil out of northern alberta and etc. is just a propaganda tool to try to sell it on more people.. i would prefer not to discuss ethics as i don’t think it has anything to do with this. discussing the reality on the ground and what the tar sands project is actually doing seems more relevant..

  6. tod
    November 2, 2011, 11:21 am

    “but that decision could be reversed to protest Israel’s settlement policies”
    But it will not be. THE END.

  7. dumvitaestspesest
    November 2, 2011, 11:32 am

    “Et tu Brute contra me”, ( “even you, Brutus, against me”).

  8. DICKERSON3870
    November 2, 2011, 5:48 pm

    RE: “The New York Times’s Robert Mackey picks up a German report
    that the Germans will back out of its commitment to help pay for an Israeli submarine…” ~ Cap’n Weiss

    PERHAPS NOT COINCIDENTALLY – Report: Israel seeking to upgrade its nuclear weapons capabilities ~ By Haaretz, 10/31/11

    (excerpt) Israel is working on improving its nuclear weapons capabilities, according to a report by the independent Trident commission in the United Kingdom that was published in the Guardian newspaper on Monday.
    According to the report in the Guardian, Israel is extending the range of its Jericho 3 land-to-land missiles so they will have the capabilities of transcontinental missiles.
    Transcontinental missiles are generally thought of as missiles with ranges of about 5,000 miles.
    The Guardian also reported that Israel is also striving to improve and expand the capabilities of its cruise missiles, designed to be launched from submarines. Israel currently has three submarines and two more are under construction in Germany. Israel and Germany are holding talks about the construction of a sixth submarine…

    ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to

  9. thetumta
    November 2, 2011, 11:38 pm

    Why does this little tiny city state have WMD? I think you all know. Examine what happened in October, 1973. You have the web. Once one goes off, well, oh well, unless all of the great powers have lost their backbone, it’s going to get very serious . Israel must be subdued. Finklestein is right. Occupy Israel!

    Just as the defeat of the German extremists created a better Germany, the defeat of the Zionists is required to solve this problem if there is still time. Otherwise be prepared to live very differently.

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