Editor note: The Occupy Wall Street press team send Ben Lorber the following email in response to questions regarding his post Flotilla controversy within Occupy Wall Street shows Palestine continues to be a fault line:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Press <press@occupywallst.org>
Date: Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:08 AM
Subject: Re: Reporter Inquiry- deleted #FreedomWaves Tweet
To: Ben Lorber
Hey Ben,
Sorry for the delay.
Many people involved in OWS support the liberation of Palestine and many other freedom movements around the world. However, since we have grown very quickly as an organization, we have not been able to come to consensus on certain issues that are outside the scope of the original message of OWS, which has dealt with the American financial crisis, democracy and wealth inequality. The flotilla actions are something that we have not had time to discuss or come to a cohesive policy on, but that does not mean that we do not fundamentally support it.
The tweet was erased because there was discussion about how it was not appropriate to address this issue on these large public social media accounts until we had agreement from the group on our exact stance on these kinds of international conflicts.
Even though this account states that it is not the official opinion of OWS, we thought it appropriate to be careful about this since those accounts tend to be perceived as the voice of OWS.
Let me know if you need any other info that would be helpful.
-Will
PR Team
Occupy Wall Street: www.occupywallst.org
New York General Assembly: http://nycga.cc/
If OWS = the 99%, then you’d have to ask the 99% and not the 1/100th of 1% that are in the room at the time.
Even the activist vision of what the 99% want or even need or even need defense against, is not determinable without good discussion.
Even to say “the movement determines” is a stretch. There are MANY in the movement that don’t live anywhere near New York or even any big city.
It is SO important that the issues of working people, NOT be diluted by factional perspective, even if widely held.
And your point is?
Yes – that is what I was thinking too.
If OWS = the 99%, then you’d have to ask the 99% and not the 1/100th of 1% that are in the room at the time.
so, nothing, anything, ever gets done until a poll of ‘the 99%’ is conducted? ‘the 99%’ is a slogan for an activist movement, witty, not a prescription for paralysis. as usual, you have turned things inside out in your humanistic effort at censorship.
It is SO important that the issues of working people, NOT be diluted by factional perspective, even if widely held.
ah, the hysteria builds, as the CAPS are deployed. in other words, says witty, we must turn our attention elsewhere, to any issue other than I/P, but in this case, ‘the issues of working people’, which, presumably, have been carefully vetted through dialogue with ‘the 99%’. so, is it only the subject of palestine that needs near unanimous agreement before being acted on?
“And your point is?”
“It is SO important that the issues of working people, NOT be diluted by factional perspective, even if widely held.”
is the primary point.
Richard Witty said, ‘My point is — I’m sympathetic to Occupy Wall Street, as long as they don’t mention Palestinian rights. Once Israel/Palestine comes up, the Except for Palestine outweighs the Progressive in my PEP identity, and I’ll have to turn away from the OWS protests.’
My point is don’t kill the movement to improve the lives of working people.
Stop the PEP name-calling.
The two-state liberal Zionist approach is the most progressive on any proposals, of those presented here.
I consider the advocacy for the single-state accompanied by the maximalist definition of right of return as “progressive except for Palestine”.
As, it reduces the prospective proportions of consent of the governed from around 80% in Israel and in Palestine to 50% or less in Israstine.
“PEP”. Polemic en Palestine.
>> The two-state liberal Zionist approach is the most progressive on any proposals, of those presented here.
progressive: 1. favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are …
The “liberal Zionist approach” – the way it is presented on this site, anyway – advocates for maintaining Israel’s status as a religion-supremacist “Jewish state”, rather than progressing / changing / improving / reforming to become the secular, democratic and egalitarian state of all Israelis. Because of this, the “liberal Zionist approach” cannot be considered the most progressive of the proposals presented on this site.
However, since we have grown very quickly as an organization, we have not been able to come to consensus on certain issues that are outside the scope of the original message of OWS, which has dealt with the American financial crisis, democracy and wealth inequality.
OWS is developing a platform – a set of policies and demands! If you are in OWS because the environment is being destroyed by corporate greed, you are in the wrong movement. If you are in OWS because the military industrial complex has become just about the only tool in the US foreign policy kit and it is creating extreme poverty and death throughout the world and bankrupting the US, you are in the wrong movement.
American Financial Crisis – yes this applies – current total “aid” to a first world country is approximately 140 billion and rising.
Democracy – yes this applies – the money is being used to prevent democracy – one person one vote in Israel. Israel is the guiding light of the Republican party and its attempts at destroying democracy in the US.
Wealth Inequality – Massive sums of money for wealthy heavily militarized countries at the expense of poor countries, and at the expense of health care for poor Americans. If the US were to give a $500 gift to the poorest 6 million or so Americans it would make a huge difference, instead of providing bullets and guns to a first world country that does not need the money.
Say it like it is – freedom for everyone is just too hot to handle for OWS.
Whether OWS likes it or not, the US as a country is part of the “1%” of countries. So are you going to stick it to the poorest of the poor in order to maintain your economic privileges? Is this issue outside OWS too? You really need to get a list of formal demands going so those who have incorrect demands can go somewhere else.
[ ops - this is not a comment dirrected at witty ]
I think the 99% are going to remember which side of the fence you jumped over to, Witty. As if you know the “issues of working people” like us.
Can you please make up your mind. It’s either a “widely held view” or “fractional” it feels.
“Factional”, not “fractional”.
I think MLK said it (and probably a few others)
Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere (not sure of the exact quote)
If you can’t support equal rights in Palestine, you don’t support equal rights. If you support use of collective punishment of Gazans in the form of economic siege and destruction of their ability to farm, trade, produce their own electricity, run hospitals or operate sewage treatment plants, or leave or enter, if you support the state-sponsored confiscation of Palestinian land for use by settlers in blatant ethnic discrimination, you’re supporting not just state-enforced economic inequality along ethnic lines, you’re supporting state-enforced impoverishment of a whole ethnic group. What moral standing do you have to object to exclusion of the 99% from a more equitable distribution of wealth, while supporting the exclusion of the native people of Palestine/Israel, and only the native people Palestine/Israel, who would be a majority of maybe 66% if they were still living there, from the rights and wealth in their own land?
So 3 billion a year of those those working people’s tax dollars flowing to Israel while they’re denied any kind of national health isn’t an issue?
I’m sure you’d rather it wasnt recognized as an issue RW but I’m sure many working Americans could see better uses for their money.
Mr. Witty expresses a sentiment I have heard in every forum imaginable:
1. “That unmentionable THING that is happening to Palestinians cannot be breathed in this forum at this time.
2. “Nor can we ever mention WHO is doing that THING to the Palestinians…that would be divisive!
3. “No other issues are divisive. Just the Palestine issue. Sorry!”
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Here is what I say to that: Never deny the ongoing Holocaust being committed against the Palestinians, and against the wider Arab and Muslim world…
…Or else your precious forum will be paralyzed, built on a shameful lie.
Then your forum will dissolve itself anyway, out of dread fear that Palestinians might somehow be mentioned as if they are human beings.
That is exactly how the anti-war movement dissolved around 2004.. from the dread fear that Palestine would be mentioned audibly.
That email from Will is the first sign that the OWS movement is dissolving itself, simply to smother any forum for the issue of Palestine.
I say boycott Israel anyway:
link to youtube.com
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You’re absolutely right. Cindy Sheehan was wiped off the media landscape as soon as she started talking about the other occupation in the Middle East that the US overtly funds.
Dick Witty is jealous that his long-time ‘friend’ is more important and successful than he is (or ever will be).
So he spends his twilight years here, at his friend’s website. He usually passes the time blabbering nonsensically to himself. In the case of the above post, he is thread-jacking.
Making sure he gets the first comment, so people who view the site for the first time (generally newcomers to MW) think he is some reasonable regular.
You know, I feel only a slight tinge of guilt that I have no sort of pity for him whatsoever anymore.
Anonymous is claiming to have taken down several Israeli Gov’t websites in protest for the flotilla interception. And threatens further action unless the blockade of Gaza is lifted.
Let’s hope they stick to it. If Israel is going to behave like a nation of barbarians, then may they lose the benefits of modern civilization.
link to haaretz.com
Israel government, security services websites down in suspected cyber-attack
I had been under the impression that the movement was called Occupy Wall Street for a reason.
The Occupy movement seems to lack vision and purpose. I am inclined to label the majority of the participants in that movement as misguided idealists who saw something cool — the Arab Spring — and wanted to copy it.
It was bad enough when assorted leftists tried to create as narrow an anti-war movement as possible during the Iraq war, they now want to narrow OWS as well?
Funny, but I don’t think they would have deleted messages of support to OTHER resistance movements. Palestine is indeed, the fault line.
Ben Lorber isn’t even in the US, I don’t think he should be the voice of reason. His main focus are Palestinians, he is only concerned about the OWS movement so he can try and use it as a vehicle to further his cause.
As long as the US pollutes the planet with its jackass foreign and economic policies, EVERYONE has the right to comment.