Israeli celebrity says she enjoyed video of IDF attacking Danish activist because he looked like a Nazi

Israel/PalestineMiddle East
on 0 Comments
images 6
Irit Linur (Photo: Doron Golan/Jini)

Author and talk-show celebrity Irit Linur explained how pleased she was to see the Israeli officer slam the butt of his rifle into the face of the (unarmed, nonviolent) Danish peace activist. She said his golden hair made him look like a member of the Hitlerjugend, and said about him and other activists: “they were born anti-Semites and will die anti-Semites” – a shameful slander, especially considering what the Danes, whose underground was granted a blanket designation as Righteous Among the Nations for their efforts during World War II to rescue the Danish Jews.

The shouts “anti-Semite!”, which appear to be a recurring Israeli response to any and all opposition, are becoming comical – but slandering Danes like that is no joke.

Transcript:

[One the one hand they say it causes] embarrassment in the IDF and that the pictures are hard to view, and on the other hand they broadcast it a dozen times in a row. [laughs]
And me – every time – first of all it’s scary, because you actually see the weapon, it’s smashed into the face of the peace activist in a really surprising way. It’s scary at first, because – my nose hurt from seeing it.
After the fifth time I say: “show me again. Can I see it again?”
Now, I want to say things precisely. People are talking about – I really want to be very precise.
First of all, there’s a certain something in the image, of the Jew wearing his yarmulke [religious hat], who looks, you know, like one of the householders in [Jewish] town, and standing against him is the golden-haired Dane, with the Hitler-Jugend look to him.
The role reversal – I really-really liked it.
But I don’t’ want to talk about the black chasm in my soul that is haunted by anti-Semitism and Nazism.
I want to say this: all those people who want to solve problems that they have no clue about, and that in any case, they tend to be on the wrong side of it – because they were born anti-Semites and will die anti-Semites – one of the reasons that they come here, of all places, is that it’s a kind of summer camp, they know that they’ll maybe demonstrate, they may bump shoulders with policemen, maybe they’ll get some teargas thrown at them, they’ll catch a bit of actual battle time – a kind of adventure summer camp, at the end of which they’ll go back to their privileged northern nation and homeland and feel how good they’ve been.
They don’t go do that in Syria, nor in Iran nor in Jordan, nor in Egypt, because they know that there – they’d be shot at.
 

A sharp-eared friend in Israel picked this up on Israel’s military radio. The original piece – full length, not just the 96 seconds with the slander – is from here.

No Responses Yet

  1. seafoid
    April 18, 2012, 10:50 am

    “I want to say this: all those people who want to solve problems that they have no clue about, and that in any case, they tend to be on the wrong side of it ”

    I learnt 2 Hebrew phrases today

    Smoch alai- everything will work out
    Al tebalbel li et ha-beitzim- don’t mix up my balls- you have no clue

    Israel is run on the smoch alai principle.
    Anyone who disagrees is an antisemite and gets the al tebalbel…

    • Shunra
      April 18, 2012, 11:46 am

      You’ve got the sense of the translation of those phrases, Seafoid, but the exact words of the first one (“smoch alai”) mean “you can depend on me” (or “trust me”).

      It is so common a phrase in Israeli Hebrew that there’s a whole cultural tradition deriding it: “tarbut ha ‘smoch’” means “the culture of people who say ‘just trust me’” – and it’s not a compliment to these people.

      • Annie Robbins
        April 18, 2012, 12:09 pm

        hey thanks for showing up dena, this is an amazing find. thank your friend in Israel for us please.

        • Shunra
          April 18, 2012, 12:16 pm

          Will do!

        • Citizen
          April 18, 2012, 1:02 pm

          I wish to thank you too, Dena.

        • Shunra
          April 18, 2012, 8:22 pm

          You’re very welcome – truly, I believe sunlight will disinfect the culture where I grew up better than any other method.

        • rchambers587
          April 25, 2012, 11:12 am

          Shunra you comment was brilliantly said.

      • thankgodimatheist
        April 19, 2012, 2:52 am

        “smoch alai”
        Not strangely, ‘smoch alai’ sounds like the Arabic ‘smah li’, allow me, permit me, pardon me. Same roots for both words ‘smh’ and “li”, literally “to me”.

        • Shmuel
          April 19, 2012, 3:27 am

          Not strangely, ‘smoch alai’ sounds like the Arabic ‘smah li’, allow me, permit me, pardon me. Same roots for both words ‘smh’ and “li”, literally “to me”.

          The Arabic cognate of the Hebrew “smkh” (סמ”ך – support, assistance) is “smk”, not “smh” which is the equivalent of the Hebrew “slh” (סל”ח – pardon, forgive). “Smah li” would thus be “selah li” in Hebrew.

        • thankgodimatheist
          April 19, 2012, 5:19 am

          “smkh”
          Well since the transliteration mentioned above is “smach” (not “smack”), it lead me to believe there’s similarity but with a kh, true, it’s a different story. The example I had in mind is “chai” (alive), “hai” in Arabic. But thanks for the correction.

        • Shmuel
          April 19, 2012, 6:35 am

          Since modern Hebrew pronunciation (a symplified hybrid of traditional Ashkenazi and Mizrahi pronunciations) doesn’t distinguish between “het” (h or ḥ) and “khaf” (kh), both are often transliterated as “ch” – even though they are written differently in Hebrew. “Chai” is thus in fact “ḥai”, whereas “smoch” is “smokh” (or “semokh”, if the initial shewa is pronounced).

          A hard khaf/kaf is prounounced “k” – hence the relationship between “semokh” (Heb.) and “simak” (Ar.).

        • seafoid
          April 19, 2012, 6:51 am

          Shmuel

          That explains why Israelis say “(the) Khamas” instead of “Hamas”.

          Where does the Israeli Hebrew pronunciation of “r” come from? It comes across as “gh”.

        • Shmuel
          April 19, 2012, 7:58 am

          That explains why Israelis say “(the) Khamas” instead of “Hamas”.

          And Khizballah and khumus :-)

          Where does the Israeli Hebrew pronunciation of “r” come from?

          Mostly from the Yiddish mother tongue of the modern language’s first speakers (see G. Zukermann), further developed by the first native speakers and subsequent generations. Some radio and TV announcers still affect a softer “r” (closer to an Arabic “r”), long-considered more “correct”, or at least more elegant.

        • seafoid
          April 19, 2012, 9:53 am

          Very interesting. The correct accent would have been the Palestinian one that the local Jews had especially as they had ALWAYS been there . But they were “Oriental” and they weren’t good enough for the Ashkenazim ….

          But it means that yiddish lives on

        • Ellen
          April 19, 2012, 5:35 pm

          Yiddish is a Medieval German dialect that survived in Jewish Communities of German speakers. Every German speaker understands most all of Yiddish. It is a variant of the same language. More so than say….”Swiss German” that no German speaker can understand.

        • lysias
          April 19, 2012, 7:39 pm

          Most Swiss German dialects are High and Highest Alemannic. Yiddish is closer to lower (i.e., more northerly) Alemannic dialects: Swabian, Alsatian, and Low Alemannic (which includes one Swiss dialect, that of Basel).

      • seafoid
        April 19, 2012, 4:04 am

        Shunra

        I got it from this book

        link to books.google.ch

        And just look at the gem on page 117

        “The major targets of Sabra wit were the Arabs, the old timers of the Yishuv and state leadership, the old timers of the moshavuot , Holocaust survivors and the oriental immigrants of the 1950s. ”

        You won’t hear that from Bibi on Holocaust memorial day.

        The crudeness and brutality of Zionist society has its roots in the bigotry and ignorance of the sabras that goes way back.

        • Shunra
          April 19, 2012, 6:46 pm

          Oh, that’s an excellent book (or at least, the Hebrew edition is.)

          I’m having a tiny bit of translator’s envy right now: I’d have LOVED to translate that, or anything else by Oz Almog. Almog is a sociologist of Israeliness, and his magnum opus (to date) is an astonishing book that takes apart Israeli culture from 1967-2002 (or so) and is worth its considerable weight in insights.

  2. Annie Robbins
    April 18, 2012, 10:53 am

    outrageous: First of all, there’s a certain something in the image, of the Jew wearing his yarmulke.. who looks, you know, like one of the householders in [Jewish] town, and standing against him is the golden-haired Dane, with the Hitler-Jugend look to him.
    The role reversal – I really-really liked it.

    • seafoid
      April 18, 2012, 11:05 am

      This should be broadcast to Denmark.

      Europeans are over listening to smug Israelis invoking the Holocaust. How are all the Shoah survivors doing in Israel? Not very well, I hear. `

      • Annie Robbins
        April 18, 2012, 11:18 am

        oh i have a feeling this will definitely reach denmark.

        • Dutch
          April 18, 2012, 3:15 pm

          I sent it to the Copenhagen Post minutes after publication.

      • hammersmith
        April 18, 2012, 12:02 pm

        That is incredible–living in poverty many of them, a great number. Not to be naive, but you would not think that possible.

        • Frankie P
          April 18, 2012, 7:13 pm

          “especially considering what the Danes, whose underground was granted a blanket designation as Righteous Among the Nations for their efforts during World War II to rescue the Danish Jews.”

          I question the need to point out the righteousness of the Danes in the context of WWII. This woman, Irit Linur, with her smearing of the goyim as anti-semites, now because of a head of golden hair, is an outrage and she is certainly a sick individual. This should be said regardless of how the Danes behaved with regards to Jews during the Holocaust.

          “But I don’t’ want to talk about the black chasm in my soul that is haunted by anti-Semitism and Nazism.”

          Dear Ms. Linur,

          I regret to inform you that the black chasm in your soul has appropriated characteristics of a black hole; that is, it has sucked everything else in your soul into it, negating and destroying it, leaving only the chasm itself.

          Sincerely,
          FPM

        • Antidote
          April 19, 2012, 10:08 pm

          Frankie P:

          “I question the need to point out the righteousness of the Danes in the context of WWII. This woman, Irit Linur, with her smearing of the goyim as anti-semites, now because of a head of golden hair, is an outrage and she is certainly a sick individual. This should be said regardless of how the Danes behaved with regards to Jews during the Holocaust.”

          I completely agree and would add that Dena Shunra’s reference to the “righteousness of the Danes” is not only completely irrelevant but also historically incorrect. In fact, it has become all but untenable in view of historical research published over the past decade or so. Sure, it’s popular among Holocaust scholars promoting national/ethnic stereotypes and political agendas rather than more plausible and better researched versions of WW II/Holocaust history:

          “In the international history of the Holocaust one event stands out as a
          unique episode in the midst of endless stories of death and tragedy: The
          rescue of almost 7,000 Danish Jews in 1943 during the German occupa-
          tion of Denmark.1 This impressive and extraordinary operation has
          tended to overshadow everything else in the historiography concerning
          Denmark and the Holocaust. Less flattering aspects of Denmark’s role in
          the Holocaust have been left more or less aside – or have remained un-
          known up until the last decade. [...] A more recent scholarly work that picks up this thread is Daniel J. Goldhagen’s best-selling Hitler’s Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the
          Holocaust (1997). Goldhagen strengthens his thesis about the special
          German “eliminationist anti-Semitism” by a reference to the heroic Danes.
          Goldhagen rhetorically asks if a battalion of Danes (or Italians) would
          have slaughtered, deported and hunted down Jews in the same way as
          the German perpetrators. According to Goldhagen this notion “strains
          credulity beyond the breaking point” because the Danes allegedly treated
          their Jews as human beings.4 But can the Danish rescue of the Jews –
          magnificent as it was – support such conclusions? Would one not want to
          base any claim of a specific Danish mentality on a broader case? In fact,
          recent Danish research demonstrates that foreign Jews were treated with
          significantly less heartfelt warmth and suggests that anti-Semitism per-
          haps was not so uncommon in Denmark in the 1930s and 1940s.”

          more:

          link to diis.dk

          see also:

          link to jcpa.org
          link to groups.yahoo.com

          Apart from taking a closer look at Danish Waffen-SS volunteers — almost as many as there were Jews in Denmark — and the treatment of Jewish refugees from other parts of Europe, the Danes have discovered plenty of other skeletons in their closets. Does the rescue of 7000 Danish Jews in 1943 excuse the death of 7000 German children in 1945, many of them orphans and driven out of their homeland by Poles? The Danes suffered the least under German occupation during WW II but were clearly no more charitable to German civilians of any age than were the Poles who suffered most. How does this inconvenient fact square with the dogma of ‘just reprisals’?

          “Kirsten Lylloff, 64, a Danish physician and historian, has just written the previously untold story of these unfortunate and forgotten children. She calls their deaths “the biggest humanitarian catastrophe in modern Denmark.” Joergen Poulsen, director of the Red Cross, speaks of a “dark chapter” in Danish history, a chapter “we will always have to be ashamed of.”

          Lylloff’s courageous documentation does much to debunk Danish myths about the nation’s humanity during World War II. In documenting the suffering of what she calls the “tyske flygtningeborn,” she has opened debate on just how willing Danish doctors — and the local population — were to help German refugees. The answers, less positive than most Danes would like to believe, have created an emotional swelling in Denmark and have forced Danes — 60 years later — to come to terms with the truth about their past.

          In the final weeks of the war, between February 11 and May 5, about 250,000 German refugees fled across the Baltic Sea to escape the sinking German Reich. Most were from East Prussia, Pomerania and the Baltic provinces and were fleeing the Soviet Army. And most were women, children or elderly. A third of the refugees were younger than 15 years old.

          When they landed, they found themselves stranded in putative freedom and at the start of a new martyrdom. The refugees were interned in hundreds of camps from Copenhagen to Jutland, placed behind barbed wire and guarded by heavily armed overseers. The largest camp was located in Oksboll, on the west coast of Jutland, and had 37,000 detainees.

          Nutrition was terrible, medical care was miserable. In 1945 alone, more than 13,000 people died, among them some 7,000 children under five. According to Lylloff’s research, more German refugees died in Danish camps, “than Danes did during the entire war.” Lylloff, a long-time senior physician and department head of immunology in Hilerod near Copenhagen, examined 6,200 death certificates and 6,500 grave stones. The result: A dissertation (“Children or enemies?”) and a crushing verdict on members of her own profession: “What kind of monsters masquerading as human beings were those Danish doctors of 1945?” she asks.

          Lylloff discovered that the Danish Association of Doctors had decided in March 1945 that German refugees would not receive any medical care. That same month the Red Cross refused to take any action, according to the newspaper “Politiken,” because public sentiment was “against the Germans.” The result: 80% of the small children that landed on Denmark’s shores did not survive the following months.

          They either starved or were unable to fight infections due to extreme malnutrition. Detailed medical reports don’t exist. All that’s left are endless rows of sad grey grave stones.

          Debate about Danish conduct

          Lylloff’s research is not disputed, but the reasons for what happened are being debated vehemently. Was it Danish “hatred” of everything German as a reaction to the oppressive Nazi occupying forces, as Lylloff believes? Or was it an attempt to wipe away memories of their own collaboration? “We had enough to do, taking care of ourselves,” explains Arne Gammelgaard, a historian of the older generation, in order to excuse the negligent treatment. His view is shared by many.

          There was, as pamphlets distributed in 1945 prove, also a widespread fear of a “new form of invasion” by the Germans. “As soon as the Germans were gone, they seemed to be back again, hundreds of thousands of them, but with different faces,” says Lylloff, trying to explain. It gave rise to “an orgy of hate against a whole people. And children had to pay the price.”

          link to spiegel.de

          “And when we hear about ethnic cleansing and talk about the monstrosities committed against the Hutus and the Tutsis in Rwanda for instance, or in the Balkans, we should remember that we were driven by the same norms due to ethnic hatred,” she told Danish daily Politiken. Lylloff’s thesis, written after nearly two years of pouring over witness testimonies and other research, contradicts most Danish history books which tend to portray the Danish treatment of Germans after the war as good.
          “This chapter should be rewritten, because the reality was quite different,” she said, pointing out that neither Danish authorities nor the Danish Red Cross had come to the German children’s rescue.”

          link to dw.de

      • AllenBee
        April 19, 2012, 9:43 am

        not only holocaust survivors not doing well.
        23.6% of Israeli population lives below poverty line link to indexmundi.com

        Israeli Income Gap is among the widest in OECD countries, and getting worse:

        OECD Report: Israeli Income Gap Too Wide

        A report issued Monday by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), which Israel joined last year, says that the gap between rich and poor grew over the past year – and the gap in Israel is one of the highest among OECD members. According to the report, the average income of the top ten percent of Israeli income earners makes 14 times more than the average in the bottom ten percent. The average for that statistic in other OECD countries is nine times.

        The report warned that the ongoing gap in the standard of living between rich and poor could have serious consequences for Israeli society.”

        But Israel has more, plenty more and growing, of those rifle butts that are such a turn-on for Irit Linur:

        Israel to increase defense budget

        • Kathleen
          April 20, 2012, 9:33 am

          This is interesting

    • dimadok
      April 18, 2012, 11:24 am

      How is that outrageous? Does having strong emotional context when something like this happens is wrong? Does Jewish vengeance and need for revenge are wrong? Not everyone are pacifists when it comes to the context of Holocaust and what European antisemitic culture had to do with that.

      • Annie Robbins
        April 18, 2012, 12:06 pm

        How is that outrageous?

        i dunno dim, this was on israel’s army radio. you don’t find that even a tad outlandish? is there anything ‘pro israel’ you won’t defend?

        • dimadok
          April 18, 2012, 12:19 pm

          Do you see me defending the actual act of Lt. Col. Eisner- it was a very stupid and bad decision of his.

        • Annie Robbins
          April 18, 2012, 12:27 pm

          stupid and a bad decision? is that the extent of your critique?

        • dimadok
          April 18, 2012, 12:34 pm

          Yes-and that is exactly what have happened there. It was a huge failure of judgement by their senior commanding officer at the scene. Do you think when a IDF soldiers being confronted on the daily basis, do not feel the urge to smack down that guy? They are not robots and are allowed to have every spectrum of human emotion. However, this event should emphasize to you or anyone else, how rare those instances are-otherwise all these ISM members and anarchists would be collecting their teeth from the first encounter with IDF.

        • eljay
          April 18, 2012, 12:53 pm

          >> Do you think when a IDF soldiers being confronted on the daily basis, do not feel the urge to smack down that guy?

          They’d get confronted substantially less often if they got the f*ck out of Palestine and back behind (at least) 1967 borders. But that’s probably too much to ask of the glorious Jewish State and its Terrorist Forces.

          >> They are not robots and are allowed to have every spectrum of human emotion.

          Funny that they don’t (often enough) experience emotions like shame and guilt at being part of the immoral machinery of oppression, occupation, colonialism and religion-supremacism. Maybe being part of the Jewish State Terrorist Forces just turns a person into an automaton.

        • Mooser
          April 18, 2012, 1:12 pm

          “They are not robots and are allowed to have every spectrum of human emotion.”

          Unlike Palestinians, or Danes, for that matter?

        • mariapalestina
          April 18, 2012, 3:02 pm

          The ISM activists are unarmed and are there at the invitation of their Palestinian friends. The IOF are armed thugs who are part of an illegal occupation force. Every last illegal Jewish settler and every IOF goon needs to go home to Israel or wherever they came from and leave the Paletinians and their friends to ride bicycles in peace on their own land and their own roads.

        • seafoid
          April 18, 2012, 4:20 pm

          Do you think when a IDF soldiers being confronted on the daily basis do not feel the urge to smack down that goy?

          What was that goy doing in Erez Israel Dim? Are goys allowed there now ?

        • Shingo
          April 18, 2012, 5:06 pm

          They are not robots and are allowed to have every spectrum of human emotion.

          If they can’t control that emotion, they shouldn’t be carrying guns.

          What did the Danish protester do that provoked such a huge reaction and why did he have to lie about it – by claiming he had been previously assaulted?

          You sound insane sometimes Dim. If this is representative if the IDF, then they are a threat to the world.

        • Talkback
          April 18, 2012, 7:08 pm

          “Do you think when a IDF soldiers being confronted on the daily basis, do not feel the urge to smack down that guy? They are not robots and are allowed to have every spectrum of human emotion.”

          You obvioulsy learned something from the Holocaust and how German soldiers treated Jews.

        • eljay
          April 18, 2012, 8:05 pm

          >> Do you think when a IDF soldiers being confronted on the daily basis, do not feel the urge to smack down that guy?

          dimadok, do you truly, sincerely and honestly think the IDF has any business maintaining an offensive (i.e, not in any way defensive) occupation of Palestine and smashing unarmed foreign cyclists in the face with an assault rifle.

          A simple question. I hope you answer it. Thanks. :-)

        • Annie Robbins
          April 18, 2012, 8:11 pm

          this event should emphasize to you or anyone else, how rare those instances are

          oh please! first of all they’ve documented hella lot but seriohsly how many of them do you think there are? do you think they sleep in every house every night to record all the home invasions? did you open the link to the australian? it’s actually AP

          link to mondoweiss.net

          Any reasonable viewer who sees the clip asks himself how many such incidents take place where there is no documentation, and how the army responds when there is no conclusive and public proof of unjustified violence,” wrote Ofer Shelah, a military columnist for the Yediot Ahronot daily.

          get that? and notice how i didn’t include it in the blockquote from the article. it just goes to show how fair use holds is back when publishing and should be a reminded to everyone to open the links.

          bottom line, people re not stupid. where there’s a military rule over millions of people OF COURSE the most flagrant of violations never get recorded. why do you think b’tselem started passing out cameras. this has been going on for decades!

          it wasn’t til the internet came on the scene these images started traveling fast and furiously. and israel still doesn’t change, they just try to keep it from being documented.

        • Fredblogs
          April 18, 2012, 8:40 pm

          Wow, I’m marking today on my calendar. Shingo is right about something. Unfortunately, he then slides back into being wrong. The soldier in question shouldn’t be carrying a gun, or be a soldier, but in a place where almost every international has a camera (or camera phone) this is the first incident I’ve ever seen recorded where an IDF man hit someone who didn’t do anything that justified hitting him and who wasn’t hit by accident in a general scrum. So no, this incident isn’t representative of the IDF in general.

          And surprise, surprise, the Israeli government is condemning the man. Funny how Israel condemns Israelis who attack innocent people and the Palestinians praise Palestinians who attack innocent people.

        • mariapalestina
          April 18, 2012, 10:42 pm

          Actually, Fred, though this particular thug was more brutal than most, attacks by IDF on unarmed and non-violent Palestinians and internationals happens on a weekly basis at the very least. Israel is condemning this criminal because his crime was so egregious and the videotape was seen around the world. Had it not been recorded they would have lied as they always do. And by the way, yes, I do know from personal experience how thuggish these IDF types can be, having been on the receiving end of both tear gas and rubber coated steel bullets. Fortunately I wasn’t close enough to be blinded by the bullet, but the wound took some time to heal. I also am quite deaf and require hearing aids as a result of IDF sound bombs fired close to my head. No provocation by the way. Just business as usual for IDF.

        • Shingo
          April 18, 2012, 11:21 pm

          this is the first incident I’ve ever seen recorded where an IDF man hit someone who didn’t do anything that justified hitting him

          Like all hasbrats, Fred has perfected the art of sticking his head in the sand.

          link to 972mag.com

          link to ynetnews.com

          link to elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.com

          link to mondoweiss.net

          link to maki.org.il

        • AllenBee
          April 19, 2012, 10:55 am

          Is there ever going to come a day when six years in Germany in the last century is not the touchstone for all subsequent Jewish behavior?

        • bigbill
          April 19, 2012, 6:45 pm

          Actually, “subsequent Jewish behavior” is due to the God-given right of Jews to possess the Holy Land and expel or exterminate the goy occupants. It is written.

        • Shunra
          April 19, 2012, 6:46 pm

          Thank you, Shingo. Exactly that.

        • Dex
          April 19, 2012, 10:07 pm

          Interesting comment. There is a section in Gilad Atzmon’s book, “The Wandering Who,” that discusses this very notion. He refers to it as the “Holocaust Religion.”

        • dimadok
          April 24, 2012, 10:41 am

          It has a duty to protect the civilian population of Israel, while maintaining the law in Judea and Samaria. Eisner actions were stupid for both purposes.

        • Woody Tanaka
          April 24, 2012, 11:52 am

          “in Judea and Samaria”

          No such places. Try “the West Bank portion of Palestine.”

      • Shunra
        April 18, 2012, 12:07 pm

        Revenge is not only wrong, it is evil.
        A desire for revenge is normal, understandable, and one of the most dangerous parts of being human. We’ve put society in place, and ever increasing systems of law and custom at every level, explicitly for the purpose of avoiding the perils of revenge.

        I don’t care what confessional faith your avengers consider themselves to be part of – wanton violence is criminal, and needs to be stopped forcefully if we desire a sustainable human society.

        This has nothing to do with the caricature of pacifism you gratuitously include in your comment.

      • Mooser
        April 18, 2012, 1:16 pm

        “Does Jewish vengeance and need for revenge are wrong?”

        That’s it Dimmy! You just take your Jewish revenge on the whole world! Sure, they’ve got the guns, but we’ve got the numbers!
        What did Sam Spade say? Oh yeah that’s right: “The cheaper the crook, the gaudier the patter” That’s you all over Wilmer.
        Still mad at the world for what the mohel did to him.

        • WeAreAllMadeOfStars
          April 18, 2012, 6:37 pm

          They’ve got the guns but we’ve got the number … I’ve always linked this lyric to Palestine … Happy to read it on Mondo … Gonna win yeah

      • Dutch
        April 18, 2012, 3:30 pm

        @ Dimadok: ‘Does Jewish vengeance and need for revenge are wrong?’

        What is that supposed to mean? Can you please explain what these soldiers are doing there in the first place? Secondly, can you explain what being Jewish has to do with their crimes?

        • Mooser
          April 18, 2012, 5:17 pm

          Dutch, I’ve asked those same questions over and over before I came to understand they are basically anti-Semitic.

      • G. Seauton
        April 19, 2012, 1:00 am

        “How is that outrageous?”

        If you have to ask, you clearly have no humanitarian sympathies whatsoever.

      • Miss Costello
        April 19, 2012, 7:20 am

        Your judgment stinks, but your name’s spot on.

      • AllenBee
        April 19, 2012, 9:50 am

        jeebus where does the “Jewish . . .need for revenge” end?

        How old is Irit Linur — 40, 45? Where was she born? What wrong did she suffer that she should have a “black chasm” where a soul ought to be, and that she experiences the compulsion for “Jewish vengeance and need for revenge?” A little reality therapy goes a long way toward healing that “need for revenge.”

        If “European antisemitic culture” is so horrible, why are so many Jews scrambling for passports to Europe?

        • Shunra
          April 19, 2012, 7:27 pm

          Linur’s just over fifty, I think.

          Her age explains that black chasm quite well – I’m about half a decade younger than she is, and I went through the same sort of public education. The chasm was masterfully placed into the soul of every schoolchild.
          The point was to generate some form of national cohesion in a colony newly repopulated by immigrants from everywhere, whose highest common denominator was the name of the religion they practiced (but not the actual practice).
          Being in a hurry, they used the good ol’ unifying trick of building up the entire outside world as enemies.
          Holocaust stories were deployed as a primary weapon against a sense of safety. Linur and I are of the generation that got forcefed fear. The very image of a train going through a forest came to mean instant threat not just to oneself, to one’s entire family, nation, and way of life.

          As Seafoid points out waaaaaay up at the top of this conversation, actual survivors of the Holocaust did not get much understanding or acceptance (Israelis were angry at them for not being militant enough and not defeating the Nazis without outside help. The survivors were shamed, teased mercilessly, and often treated brutally) before the Eichmann trial and before it became obvious that they were worth a pretty penny to the country in compensation monies from Germany.
          But once the Holocaust was deemed useful, it was worked over and honed into a narrative that placed each and every one of the people living in the Jewish side of Israel in imminent danger of suffering the worst horrors of war.

          So, a black chasm opened up in the souls of people so educated. Each person dealt with it a little differently. Many got overdosed at some point (mine was the Column Of Fire TV series, in 1981. That was when I first heard Israelis make black humor Holocaust jokes, too – it may have been something of a turning point.)
          Many people decided that it was actually a realistic fear. I’ve seen Israeli mother discuss the exact mechanisms for hiding, if the Nazis take over and compare their children’s relative Aryanness – which they figured would help keep them safe. Note that this was in the early nineties. There were no Nazis left by then. But the chasm in the soul was growing wider.

          Linur is not atypical, I’m afraid. And her description is not an unusual one. The unusual part is that it was broadcast on the radio.

        • Shingo
          April 19, 2012, 7:52 pm

          Thanks for your post Shunra,

          A fabulous insight and highly informative.

        • Mooser
          April 23, 2012, 12:12 pm

          “The very image of a train going through a forest came to mean instant threat not just to oneself, to one’s entire family, nation, and way of life.”

          Yes, all bluegrass groups are warned: “I don’t care what they loved in Branson, don’t play “Orange Blossom Special” if you want to get through the set without being attacked!”

        • dimadok
          April 24, 2012, 10:42 am

          Does the urge of revenge has to be acquired only through actual Holocaust experience?

        • Woody Tanaka
          April 24, 2012, 11:54 am

          “Does the urge of revenge has to be acquired only through actual Holocaust experience?”

          Does “the urge of revenge” have to be limited to only those people who committed the Nakba, or is any ol’ Israeli fair game?

      • RoHa
        April 19, 2012, 8:48 pm

        “Does Jewish vengeance and need for revenge are wrong?”

        So Jewish vengance is:

        “Hey, that little kid there looks pretty much like the kid who pushed my father’s best friend into the mud when they were at school seventy years ago! I’ll push him into to the mud! Revenge! Revenge!”

        And you ask if it is wrong?

      • Kathleen
        April 20, 2012, 9:35 am

        “How is that outrageous?”
        You really have a serious cruel streak. Really cruel and inhumane

        • dimadok
          April 24, 2012, 10:43 am

          I’m harsh and hardened by the realities in Israel. True that but it has nothing to do with the post here.

        • Woody Tanaka
          April 24, 2012, 11:55 am

          “I’m harsh and hardened by the realities in Israel. True that but it has nothing to do with the post here.”

          No, it has everythign to do with it. Lying to yourself and passing off base immorality with simply being “harsh and hardened” is the kind of crap that every evil government on every continent at every time pushed to facilitate its evil. Yours is no exception.

      • dahoit
        April 22, 2012, 11:55 am

        Oh,and not giving a sh*t is a sign of depravity,and a lack of spiritualism,but we all know Jews are the most noble believing people on earth,or at least their rituals say,despite polling to the diff.(57% of American Jews don’t believe in God,according to the NYTs of 05?)
        And it seems the Israelis also,with all their spits in Gods eye.

        • Mooser
          April 23, 2012, 12:15 pm

          “(57% of American Jews don’t believe in God,according to the NYTs of 05?)”

          That’s all right. God only half-believes in the Jews, anyway. Some relationships work best when you keep a respectful distance from each other.
          No wonder God doesn’t listen to Jews, and only answers the prayers of those whose religions boast at least a %90 belief rate.

  3. Taxi
    April 18, 2012, 10:57 am

    LOL israel is so effed and some of us are really enjoying it.

    For the right reasons, of course.

    They must be so self-hating to be so incapable of making any new friends, while fast losing old ones – especially here in the USA. I mean them israelis don’t make enemies of just one person here, one person there – noooooooo, they pride themselves on making enemies of whole nations overnight.

    So I encourage all racist israelis to keep up the good work of rotting out their (stolen) country right from within.

    What a despicable pit of ingrates full of hate and darkest arrogant narcissism. But of course, it was always forever thus in israel, it’s just that now, thanks to the internet, it’s caught on camera and broadcast to the world – bypassing the msm’s zion-muzzle.

    We shouldn’t be sending them 2 billion in aid – we should be sending them 6 million psychiatrists – one per israeli citizen.

    • Shmuel
      April 18, 2012, 12:39 pm

      ingrates full of hate and darkest arrogant narcissism

      Yep, that’s our Irit. Tell me the truth; you’ve heard her before, haven’t you?

      • Chu
        April 18, 2012, 1:11 pm

        talk-show celebrity Irit Linur.
        Never heard of her. Is she the Oprah of Israel?

      • Citizen
        April 18, 2012, 1:11 pm

        Irit’s heart-felt message, her severe recoil, reminds me of Hitler’s passionate passage about when his young eyes fall upon Jews from the East in the Vienna streets. Her thoughts also remind me of Streicher’s images in reverse. Perhaps she should write an Israeli Jewish version of The Fox In The Meadow or The Poisonous Mushroom? Or is that already done.
        I just watched a couple of episodes of Steve’s travels in Denmark on PBS about cozy Denmark. Should he do a new episode incorporating this in the Danish version of “cozy?” If there is any country that looks less like Israel, I can’t think of one that is more effective than Denmark just doing and building what it does naturally. I think there are about the same number of Danes as there are Israelis.

        • Annie Robbins
          April 18, 2012, 1:19 pm

          If there is any country that looks less like Israel, I can’t think of one that is more effective than Denmark just doing and building what it does naturally.

          Table: The World’s Happiest Countries

          link to forbes.com

          Denmark!

        • ritzl
          April 18, 2012, 4:29 pm

          @Citizen It all really does contrast, throw into very high relief actually, the whole chimeric yet repetitious “Western ‘democracy’ ” claim. Yet again.

          My niece just did a semester in Denmark, with great effect and affect. Given her new experiences and the similarities you mention, she would be appalled by what goes on in Israel, and the claim that it in any way resembles a Danish-style enlightened democracy. (Note to self: New discussion indicated…)

      • Taxi
        April 18, 2012, 1:28 pm

        Shmuel,

        I’d rather get mass acupuncture in the eyeball than watch the vile porno of hate on israeli TV.

        • Shmuel
          April 18, 2012, 1:37 pm

          I’d rather get mass acupuncture in the eyeball than watch the vile porno of hate on israeli TV.

          Radio, in Linur’s case. She used to do a show together with a religious right-winger (Uri Orbach – now a member of Knesset for The Jewish Home party), in which she was supposed to be the leftist! She sometimes shocked even him.

        • Annie Robbins
          April 18, 2012, 7:58 pm

          mass acupuncture in the eyeball …jesus taxi!

        • Daniel Rich
          April 18, 2012, 9:01 pm

          @ Taxi,

          Q: …mass acupuncture in the eyeball…

          R: I hope I’ll get rid of that image before I’m due for my next treatment.

    • ritzl
      April 18, 2012, 4:17 pm

      Sort of OT, but your “enjoying” observation made me think it might be relevant here.

      When you or others see a video like this or the parent “pistol-whipping” vid on youtube or elsewhere, do you “like” it or “dislike” it?

      I never know if by “liking” vids that show violence against Palestinians, protestors, or Palestinian farm animals I am endorsing that behaviour or “liking” the fact that it is made available for all the world to see.

      Any thoughts?

      • Sumud
        April 18, 2012, 5:28 pm

        I think better to only like or dislike a vid based on the intention of the person posting the vid. If they are a HR activists documenting IDF abuse, that is admirable; worthy of a like. If it is some thug happy and bragging about messing with a Palestininian then you wouldn’t want to be liking that.

        If it isn’t clear, do nothing.

        • ritzl
          April 18, 2012, 6:59 pm

          Thanks Sumud. “Liked.” ;)

    • G. Seauton
      April 19, 2012, 1:32 am

      I’m not sure I’m enjoying it. I wish it would just stop.

      When I think about what I would prefer for Israel, I imagine something similar to the one-state solution envisioned by Ali Abunimah, but such a possibility seems so remote as to appear naive even to consider it.

      However …

      Seventy-five years ago no one would have thought France and Germany could coexist peacefully. Thirty years ago no one would have believed Northern Ireland could have peace. Seemingly intractable problems have actually been solved.

      Obviously, “regime change,” as we like to term it in America, is needed in Israel. But the fallacy goes thus: regime change = end of Israel = extermination of the Jews. We must accept the Israeli regime because anything else would amount to “driving the Jews into the sea” — unfortunate rhetoric, of course, all the more since it more accurately reflects the fate met by Palestinians after 1948 than anything ever likely to happen to Israelis.

      But without a constantly regenerated sense of victimhood, it would be hard to obtain the support of American Jews for Israel’s constant military adventures, which, of course, to ordinary American sensibilities, seem horrific. To win support for these large-scale atrocities dressed up as self-defense, a high dose of propaganda is required. Enter the compliant American media …

      The end game? Israel may indeed follow the Soviet Union down the path of dissolution, but it could take another fifty years or so. Forces are massively aligned against change. True, change can often take a catastrophic turn, quickly and before anyone would expect it. Still, it does seem that Israel is more likely to expel all the Palestinians from their lands well before the Israeli regime suffers any real “existential” crisis.

      Maybe I’m just being pessimistic.

      • CloakAndDagger
        April 19, 2012, 12:10 pm

        Israel may indeed follow the Soviet Union down the path of dissolution, but it could take another fifty years or so.

        I give it 10 years – 20 tops. The reason for that it is the withdrawal of US influence from the region. Without our protection, the curtains will descend very rapidly.

  4. Eleanor Kilroy
    April 18, 2012, 11:17 am

    Israel really doesn’t want any friends…except for in US congress.

    The woman is a nasty, ignorant racist, yet I permit myself to feel outrage on behalf of my late Danish grandmother who lived through Nazi Germany’s occupation of her homeland and left for England with her British Navy husband who had fought Nazi Germany. It was, furthermore, the Danish resistance movement, supported by ordinary Danish citizens, that undertook one of the biggest acts of resistance under Nazi occupation, evacuating about 8,000 Danish Jews to safety in Sweden.

  5. dahoit
    April 18, 2012, 11:38 am

    This woman, who I guess has lived her whole life in Israel,experienced anti Semetism from Europeans?Wha?
    They believe their own nonsense.
    Does she love the Samson Option?
    Some radical might call her uncivilized, neh?

  6. William Burns
    April 18, 2012, 11:44 am

    The Dane is an obvious Nazi lookalike–with the blond hair and bright blue eyes of Adolf Hitler, the imposing height of Joseph Goebbels, and the trim, muscular form of Herman Goering.

    • lysias
      April 18, 2012, 2:43 pm

      Hitler did in fact have mesmerizing blue eyes.

    • mariapalestina
      April 18, 2012, 3:05 pm

      Even in Israel the preferred Jewish look is the blond blue eyed European version, rather than the semitic ones who are actually connected to the Middle East.

      • straightline
        April 18, 2012, 5:50 pm

        Slightly off topic but there are two very interesting pieces of recent research about the blue-eyed/blonde gene(s).

        link to telegraph.co.uk
        (apologies for telegraph but easiest to find)

        link to cogweb.ucla.edu

        The gist is that

        1. the blonde/blue eyed “gene” was a mutation from between 6000 and 10000 years ago near the Black Sea.

        2. Frost says that its prevalence in Northern European latitudes was a result of evolutionary pressure from there being relatively few males in the population. Paraphrasing: “gentlemen prefer blondes”! Don’t shoot the messenger!

    • Daniel Rich
      April 18, 2012, 9:11 pm

      @ William Burns,

      Q: …and the trim, muscular form of Herman Goering.

      R: Herman Goering/Göring was a ‘The Great War’ ace and WWII, morphine addicted, fat hog.

      • William Burns
        April 21, 2012, 6:09 pm

        Uh, Daniel, you do realize that my post was a joke? Goebbels was short and Hitler was not a blond, either.

        • Daniel Rich
          April 22, 2012, 9:54 am

          @ William Burns,

          No, William, I did not. An Austrian leading a place that’s not his own country … No where did I see that again?

          Josef? How Aryan!

    • AllenBee
      April 19, 2012, 10:30 am

      it would be helpful to MW and its audience, and it might help Irit Linur fill that “black chasm” in her soul to examine the complexities of German restrictions on intermarriage with Jews, which is really what the Nuremberg laws were about.

      This is not making a judgment on German race laws, it’s just a request to deal in facts rather than bumper stickers.

      Jewish Virtual Library has a reasonably fact-based account of the Nuremberg laws, and the German Propaganda Archive quotes a speech by Dr. Gerhard Wagner on delivered at the 1936 Nuremberg rally.

      Notice the contrast between the way Jewish Virtual library opens its discussion–

      NUREMBERG LAWS, anti-Jewish statutes enacted by Germany on September 15, 1935, marking a major step in clarifying racial policy

      with the introduction to Wagner’s letter on the Calvin.edu website:

      “Wagner was the head of the Nazi organization for physicians. Like much other Nazi rhetoric of the period, it put less emphasis on the evils of the Jews than on the benefits of maintaining a racially pure, and growing, population. “

      Consider also Arthur Ruppin’s Concept of Race. Ruppin, a eugenicist, was concerned with admitting to zionist Palestine only acceptable “human material” to build the “New Jew.” Ruppin’s work predated Nazism by about 30 years.

      Once again, this comment makes no judgment and is not posted with the intent of trying to start an argument. Just trying to point out that the facts are more complicated than the “blue eyed blonde hair” jokes that appear to inform Linur’s “black chasm.”

      • Annie Robbins
        April 19, 2012, 11:04 am

        Ruppin’s work predated Nazism by about 30 years.

        eugenitic was all the rage in the scientific community in the decades after darwin’s On the Origin of Species was published in 1859. it wasn’t limited to nazis and zionists. everybody else just moved on. most everybody.

        • Woody Tanaka
          April 19, 2012, 12:22 pm

          “eugenitic was all the rage in the scientific community in the decades after darwin’s On the Origin of Species was published in 1859.”

          Point of correction: neither Charles Darwin nor On the Origin of Species are relevant, in any proper way, in a discussion about eugenics, as it was Galton, not Darwin, who formulated eugenic’s “principles.” Although many eugencists tried to claim the mantle of Darwin’s great theory (just as many present-day creationist dopes try to link eugenics and evolution), they were absolutely wrong, because Darwin’s theory discusses a process which is, by definition, a wholly natural process, where as eugenics was a human-generated one. It was in no way Darwinian, but was basically the principles of animal husbandry applied to humans.

    • Antidote
      April 19, 2012, 6:18 pm

      From the testimony of Hjalmar Schacht (was he Prussian or Danish?) at the Nuremberg Trials:

      DR. DIX: [...] What did you think about the ideology of the master race (Herrenvolk)?

      SCHACHT: I have always considered it a very unhappy precedent to speak of a “chosen people,” or of “God’s own country,” or of things like that. As a convinced adherent to the Christian faith I believe in Christian charity, which bids me extend love to all men without regard to race or faith. I would like to mention also that the silly talk about the master race, which some Party leaders made their own, was held up to constant ridicule by the German public. That was not surprising, because most of the leaders of the Hitler Party were not exactly ideal types of the Nordic race. And in that connection, when these things were discussed among the German population, little Goebbels was referred to as “Der Schrumpfgermane”-the shrivelled Teuton.

      Only one thing-I have to say this to be just-did most of the leaders of the Party have in common with the old Teutons-and that was drinking; excessive drinking was a main part of the Nazi ideology.

      DR. DIX: What did you think of the so-called National Socialist Weltanschauung?

      SCHACHT: Weltanschauung in my opinion is a summation of all those moral principles which enable me to acquire a clear judgment on all aspects of life. Therefore it is a matter of course that a Weltanschauung cannot take root in the tangible world, but must rise above it; it is something metaphysical, that is to say, it is based on faith, on religion. A Weltanschauung which is not rooted in religion is in my opinion no Weltanschauung at all. Consequently I reject the National Socialist Weltanschauung which was not rooted in religion.”

      link to avalon.law.yale.edu

  7. eljay
    April 18, 2012, 11:52 am

    >> First of all, there’s a certain something in the image, of the Jew wearing his yarmulke … who looks, you know, like one of the householders in [Jewish] town, and standing against him is the golden-haired Dane, with the Hitler-Jugend look to him.
    The role reversal – I really-really liked it.

    She really-really liked seeing a Jew assuming the role of a Nazi. Well, that certainly speaks volumes about her and the twisted, oppressive, colonialist, religion-supremacist culture which has influenced her and which – as a celebrity – she has the power to influence.

    ——————–
    Caption suggestion for the photo: “So what? I like Jewish Nazis. So sue me!”

    :-)

    • Chu
      April 18, 2012, 12:51 pm

      Twisted to say the least. The revenge against the goyim seems limitless to the Israeli mind.

      • Citizen
        April 18, 2012, 1:14 pm

        Wouldn’t it have been entertaining if some American journalist had asked Bibi if he included Amreeka when he told us all that in every generation anti-semites arise?

  8. Shmuel
    April 18, 2012, 11:55 am

    First of all, there’s a certain something in the image, of the Jew wearing his yarmulke [religious hat], who looks, you know, like one of the householders in [Jewish] town, and standing against him is the golden-haired Dane, with the Hitler-Jugend look to him.
    The role reversal – I really-really liked it.

    Poor Irit. All those years and images of Jewish soldiers (some of them religious) smashing Palestinians in the face just didn’t do it for her, because they look … well, kind of like Jews. If only they had been blonde-haired and blue-eyed, with high cheekbones and chiselled jaws, the sublimation of our revenge fantasies would have been so much more satisfying. Damn those Palestinians. Why couldn’t they be just a little more Aryan. Wait, aren’t Iranians supposed to be Aryans? Maybe, but they don’t look the part. Damn those Iranians.

    Ironically, one of the tritest hasbara lines about why Israelis can’t get along with their neighbours is “This is the Middle East, you know. It’s not Scandinavia!”

    • Mooser
      April 18, 2012, 12:17 pm

      Shmuel, I am always interested in what you have to say, so I have to warn you: you won’t get away with this! What did you do with “Newclench”? He never returned to demolish your succinct explication of the psychological and social relations betwenn the Israeli military and Israeli society, and everybody knows he could have done it in one sentence! Easy as pi! But he never came back to do it.
      Okay Shmuel, where is he and what did you do to him?

      • Shmuel
        April 18, 2012, 12:35 pm

        Okay Shmuel, where is he and what did you do to him?

        I think he’s over in the big tent.

        • Mooser
          April 18, 2012, 12:45 pm

          “I think he’s over in the big tent.”

          Of course! Sorry, Shmuel, I should have known. At any rate, when he comes charging back to the small tent, ready to offer definitive proof you wouldn’t know Israel from septic tank, or anything about the IDF or Israeli society, you better duck.
          Or maybe he will tell us that video is “fantastical”.

    • ritzl
      April 18, 2012, 5:04 pm

      Great one. Pity that, on so many levels in Israel, this is aggressively avoided introspection.

      Dickerson posted links to the film “Defamation” a week or so back. I had never seen it, but if it is in the least representative of the “acculturation” Israeli kids get, and have gotten for decades, it’s not remotely surprising this revolting sentiment is accepted as normal and decent in Israel.

    • Antidote
      April 19, 2012, 4:25 pm

      “All those years and images of Jewish soldiers (some of them religious) smashing Palestinians in the face just didn’t do it for her, because they look … well, kind of like Jews. If only they had been blonde-haired and blue-eyed, with high cheekbones and chiselled jaw…”

      re image and reality: Would this be a candidate for Jewish revenge? From Wikipedia (page: Werner Goldberg)

      “Werner Goldberg (October 3, 1919 – September 28, 2004) was a German who was of part Jewish ancestry, or Mischling in Nazi terminology, who served briefly as a soldier during World War II and whose image appeared in a German newspaper as “The Ideal German Soldier”.

      His father himself had grown up in Königsberg as a member of the Jewish community but had himself baptized in the local Lutheran church as he wished to become assimilated and had married a Christian.[1] After Hitler became Chancellor of Germany in 1933, Mr. Goldberg lost his position under the Nazi law of April 1933, Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service, which expelled Jews from the German Civil Service.

      Werner left school in 1935 and became an apprentice at Schneller und Schmeider, a clothing company jointly owned by a Jew and a non-Jew, where many of his colleagues were Jews or mischlinge. Werner’s uncle on his mother’s side was an opportunist who joined the Nazi party and refused to be seen with the Goldberg family, even avoiding Werner’s mother.

      At the beginning of 1938 Werner served a six month term in the Reich Labour Service whose uniform, as Werner later recalled, “had a swastika on an armband”. On December 1 1938 Werner joined the German Army. He took part in the invasion of Poland on September 1 1939, serving alongside childhood friend Karl Wolf whose father was now a high-ranking SS officer.

      Shortly after the beginning of the War, Werner’s photograph appeared in the Sunday edition of the Berliner Tageblatt newspaper with the caption “The Ideal German Soldier”; the photograph had been sold to the newspaper by the official army photographer. It was later used on recruitment posters.

      In 1940 following the Armistice with France, Werner was expelled from the army under Hitler’s order of April 8 1940 which stated that all Mischlinge were to be expelled from the military. He returned to his former workplace which had now changed its name to the Feodor Schmeider Company, having been obliged to remove the Jewish name Schneller. Werner played an increasingly more responsible role within the company, obtaining contracts for uniforms from the army and the navy. He also attended the Reich Board of Labour Studies School (Reichsaussschuss für Arbeitsstudie) where he was one of 4 out of 80 students who passed the test to become a REFA teacher. He then became a Labour Studies Board lecturer on the clothing business, and delivered lectures to organizations and company directors, even publishing an article in the weekly trade publication Textilwoche.

      In December 1942, Werner’s father was admitted to the Bavaria Hospital. The Gestapo however raided the hospital and sent him to a Jewish hospital which had been requisitioned by the Gestapo for use as prison, with Jews being taken from and sent to Auschwitz. On Christmas Eve, gambling that the guards would be drunk or absent, Werner took his father from the hospital. Mr. Goldberg was soon back in the hands of the Gestapo and in April 1943 was summoned for deportation, but Werner told him not to show up and he was again saved. He became the only member of Werner’s family to survive the War.

      Werner Goldberg’s story formed part of the 2006 documentary Hitler’s Jewish Soldiers, a 58 minute film produced by Larry Price in association with the Israel Broadcasting Authority.[2]

      Werner Goldberg featured in an episode of the Yesterday TV series “Nazi Collaborators”, first screened in the UK in December 2010.

      Werner Goldberg died in Berlin on September 28, 2004 [...]“

  9. hammersmith
    April 18, 2012, 11:57 am

    She is not helping Israel. To say the least….

  10. marc b.
    April 18, 2012, 11:57 am

    First of all, there’s a certain something in the image, of the Jew wearing his yarmulke [religious hat], who looks, you know, like one of the householders in [Jewish] town, and standing against him is the golden-haired Dane, with the Hitler-Jugend look to him.
    The role reversal – I really-really liked it.

    there is no ‘role reversal’ dumb ass. the ‘golden-haired’ dane wasn’t born during the time of the hitler youth, and probably hasn’t harmed a fly in his life. (brilliant how someone complaining of ‘anti-semitism’ is incapable of analyzing anything without resorting to racial stereotypes.) on the other hand, this is just another day at the office for obersttleutnant eisner who bashed a couple of other unarmed civilians in the face the same day he was caught on tape suffering (oh, yes, he was suffering, poor mensch) an armed temper tantrum.

    But I don’t’ want to talk about the black chasm in my soul that is haunted by anti-Semitism and Nazism.

    I want to say this: all those people who want to solve problems that they have no clue about, and that in any case, they tend to be on the wrong side of it – because they were born anti-Semites and will die anti-Semites . . .

    heavens no, she doesn’t want to talk about herself . . . [one one thousand, two one thousand, three . . .] oh, well she couldn’t resist. such is the micro-mentality of the narcissist; even when talking about a third party, they are talking about themselves.

    • Mooser
      April 18, 2012, 12:20 pm

      . “such is the micro-mentality of the narcissist; even when talking about a third party, they are talking about themselves.”

      Hey, you just exposed my entire comment response technique!

  11. Shmuel
    April 18, 2012, 12:06 pm

    Oh, and thanks, Dena :-)

    • Shunra
      April 18, 2012, 12:15 pm

      I’m glad to have the opportunity to shed some light on this.
      Especially ’cause my family is about half-blonde… …I’ll be sure to tell the fair-haired, blue-eyed members of my household how dangerous it is to get anywhere near Linur and her color-coded revenge fantasies.

      • Taxi
        April 18, 2012, 12:30 pm

        “color-coded revenge fantasies” = psychotic projections.

        • Citizen
          April 18, 2012, 1:16 pm

          Time to watch Susan George in Mandigo?

  12. Annie Robbins
    April 18, 2012, 12:13 pm

    i hope everyone has a chance to open the Righteous Among the Nations link provided in the article.

    The rescue of the Danish Jews occurred during Nazi Germany’s occupation of Denmark during World War II. On October 1st 1943 Nazi leader Adolf Hitler ordered Danish Jews to be arrested and deported. Despite great personal risk, the Danish resistance movement with the assistance of many ordinary Danish citizens took part in a collective effort to evacuate about 8,000 Jews of Denmark by sea to nearby neutral Sweden.

    The rescue allowed the vast majority of Denmark’s Jewish population to avoid capture by the Nazis and is considered to be one of the largest actions of collective resistance to repression in the countries occupied by Nazi Germany. As a result of the rescue and Danish intercession on behalf of the 5% of Danish Jews who were deported to Theresienstadt transit camp in Bohemia, over 99% of Denmark’s Jewish population survived the Holocaust.

    …….

    The Danish resistance movement as a collective effort, rather than as individuals, has been honoured at Yad Vashem in Israel as being part of the “righteous among the nations”.[15][16] Also honoured are a handful of Danes who were not members of the official resistance movement, and Georg Ferdinand Duckwitz.[17]

    • marc b.
      April 18, 2012, 1:09 pm

      but this doesn’t answer the most important question implicitly raised by irit’s commentary: were any members of the danish resistance movement blond? we can’t evaluate the historical circumstances of the war peculiar to denmark without discussing hair color. i’d bet that no blond danes risked their lives to protect jewish danes. so, in other words, this guy had it coming to him.

      • dahoit
        April 22, 2012, 12:47 pm

        Though I’m sure there are a lot of blond Danes,aren’t more dark haired,ala Rasmussen or Viggo?

    • thetumta
      April 18, 2012, 7:59 pm

      ‘Danish resistance movement has been honoured at Yad Vashem in Israel as being part of the “righteous among the nations””. So what’s your point? They have the Oppressor’s seal of approval?

      How many Danish Jews who were deported to Theresienstadt transit camp in Bohemia survived? Most of them, none of them? What do the Theresienstadt camp records reveal? Was it a death camp, labor camp or simple internment?

      Speaking of Sweden(Denmark was part of the Swedish Empire not so long ago, not the current one), has Yad Vashem honored Count Bernadette as part of the “righteous among the nations”? After all one of their Prime Ministers was complicit in his murder. That would be so bold!

      Hej! Tumta

      P.S. If your a pork lover, nobody does it better than a Danish breakfast buffet.

      • Citizen
        April 19, 2012, 2:56 am

        In 1943 the Nazis sent to Theresienstadt some 500 Danish Jews who had not escaped to Sweden. While Europeans elsewhere often quickly lost interest in their deported Jewish fellow citizens, the Danes persisted in demanding that the Germans account for these Danish citizens and allow the Red Cross to visit the ghetto.
        To dispel rumours about the extermination camps, the Nazis permitted the visit, but they arranged an elaborate hoax. They deported many camp residents to Auschwitz to minimize the appearance of overcrowding and erected fake stores and cafés to give the appearance of a life of comfort and ease. The Red Cross visited the Danish Jews—no more than two or three in a room—in freshly painted quarters. A children’s opera, Brundibar, was performed for the guests. The hoax succeeded so well that the Nazis made a propaganda film at Theresienstadt showing how well the Jews were living under the benevolent protection of the Third Reich. link to britannica.com

      • straightline
        April 19, 2012, 4:12 pm

        thetumta>> P.S. If your a pork lover, nobody does it better than a Danish breakfast buffet.

        That proves it – Danes are antisemitic!

        • Shmuel
          April 19, 2012, 5:32 pm

          thetumta>> P.S. If your a pork lover, nobody does it better than a Danish breakfast buffet.

          That proves it – Danes are antisemitic!

          On the contrary. How do you think the danish was invented? Those wonderful, big-hearted Danes were concerned that the Jews would have nothing to eat for breakfast.

    • Antidote
      April 19, 2012, 10:33 pm

      JTA reported in July 45:

      “from the point of view of actual survival, the Jews of Germany fared better than those in any of the countries occupied by the Nazis.”

      link to archive.jta.org

      Would that include Denmark?

  13. maz
    April 18, 2012, 12:47 pm

    ” “they were born anti-Semites and will die anti-Semites””

    Is that like the Christian concept of original sin?

    The Holocaust has been in the news a little bit more than usual the past few days, most notably the story about 3rd generations now $uffering due to post traumatic stress, probably from being traumatized stories of Nazis since birth.

    Wonder why this is?

    • Shunra
      April 18, 2012, 1:01 pm

      Israel has started celebrating its six-week cycle of historical reenactment. Last week was Passover, this week (today) Israeli Holocaust Memorial day, next week Memorial Day (for war casualties, mostly soldiers) and immediately thereafter, Independence Day, then a week later Jerusalem Day, celebrating the 1967 occupation of Jerusalem’s walled city.

      So Israelis are thinking about the Holocaust even more than usual this week.

      • Annie Robbins
        April 18, 2012, 1:10 pm

        Israel has started celebrating its six-week cycle of historical reenactment.
        dena, noam gur mentioned that in our interview you helped set up.
        link to mondoweiss.net

        The Israeli society still worship the dead far more the the living. I’m not sure if I mentioned that but the refuse date is pretty bad – it’s the month of the Holocaust Remembrance Day, Memorial Day for IDF soldiers and the Israeli independence day. April is always a month when you can see how much Israel invests in the dead.

        • eljay
          April 18, 2012, 1:14 pm

          >> Israel has started celebrating its six-week cycle …

          And what better way to celebrate a cycle than to smash an unarmed cyclist in the face with an assault rifle!

          Or was that just a coincidence?

        • Shunra
          April 18, 2012, 1:19 pm

          Right , I had forgotten she wrote about that.

          In practice, it’s a mechanism of national psyche-molding which stalks the edges of a nation campaign to induce PTSD.

          And it is very, very effective.

      • Shmuel
        April 18, 2012, 1:23 pm

        I wonder whether anyone noticed – on Holocaust Remembrance Day – that Linur cast a pro-Palestinian “Nazi” (my apologies to Mr. Ias for repeating this nasty slur even in quotation marks) in the role of a Jewish victim, and a Jewish IDF officer in the role of a Nazi.

    • Fredblogs
      April 18, 2012, 8:48 pm

      Oh, please, had the Dane been a Palestinian it would have caused the same level of outrage as with a Dane. The fact is that unambiguous situations like this are rare on the Israeli attacks Palestinian side and common as muck on the Palestinian attacks Israeli side.

      • Sumud
        April 18, 2012, 10:58 pm

        The fact is that unambiguous situations like this are rare on the Israeli attacks Palestinian side and common as muck on the Palestinian attacks Israeli side.

        So when Israel kills 10 Palestinian children for every one Israeli child killed – as has occurred over the last 1o years – I suppose you classify that as ‘ambiguous’…?

        300+ children slaughtered by the “most moral army in the world” in 22 days in Gaza, ‘ambiguous’…?

        Midnight raids with old people shot in their beds, ‘ambiguous’…?

        Private Israeli arms manufacturers testing their products (“battlefield tested”) by shooting people in Gaza, ‘ambiguous’…?

        45 years of military occupation, ‘ambiguous’…?

  14. rensanceman
    April 18, 2012, 1:02 pm

    Again Dimadok provides the Zionist psychological constructs for Soldier Eisner’s temper tantrum caught on tape blaming the constant harassment of protesters in the ME ‘s only democracy. People who protest are bothersome and deserve a back-hand swipe once in a while.

  15. justicewillprevail
    April 18, 2012, 1:16 pm

    The crutch of the Holocaust to excuse any violence by Israelis is quite sick. It is especially insulting to Europeans and their descendants who fought the Nazis, helped rescue Jews and died for their efforts. But it is most insulting to the Jews who died at the time. It appears modern Israelis have, tragically, learnt nothing from history or their forefathers, but instead are determined to desecrate their memory by cheap resorts to their suffering in order to justify racism, violence, theft and the dispossession of an entire people. Ill. If you must make cheap comparisons to the Nazis, then there is only one in this scenario, and he isn’t Danish.

  16. OlegR
    April 18, 2012, 1:50 pm

    Cool Irit made the front page in Mondoweiss, good for her.
    And BTW she is a very funny cynical and smart.
    That comment she made on Ma Boer stirred quite a storm in our PC liberal Mass media.
    Which is a sure sign she had a good point.

    • justicewillprevail
      April 18, 2012, 2:01 pm

      Yes, racists are hilarious, though not smart.

    • Djinn
      April 19, 2012, 12:16 am

      Mel Gibson’s anti-semitic rantings also caused quite a stir in “pc liberal” mass media, I guess you think he was making good points.

    • Miss Costello
      April 19, 2012, 7:34 am

      Sick bucket, quick!

  17. Les
    April 18, 2012, 1:59 pm

    Insecure Jews express their whiteness in peculiar ways, in this case she makes clear he is nothing but white trash.

  18. PeaceThroughJustice
    April 18, 2012, 2:02 pm

    “because they were born anti-Semites and will die anti-Semites …”

    It’s important that gentiles get to see these glimpses into what “antisemitism” really means to many secular Jews. It’s not just the word used to categorize prejudice against a minority when that minority happens to be Jewish. For the Irit Linurs, antisemitism is its own metaphysical category (“causeless hatred”), which is not caused by anything in history but is what causes history itself. It’s a prime mover of the world, and she worships it.

    So when Dena Shunra calls this ranting a “slander,” she’s actually missing the point. A slander is a lie, and a lie is something that could at least conceivably be true. But here we’re talking about something which exists only in the casebooks of aberrant psychology.

    • marc b.
      April 18, 2012, 2:49 pm

      . For the Irit Linurs, antisemitism is its own metaphysical category (“causeless hatred”), which is not caused by anything in history but is what causes history itself. It’s a prime mover of the world, and she worships it.

      a metaphysical category, or a biological category? she worships ‘race’, that mix of pseudo-science and mysticism. this better explains the mental block to acknowledging that non-jews did/do risk their lives to save jews, her refusal being the obverse of ‘everyone wants to kill the jews’, and it’s just a short step from there to an argument about the superiority of her genetic stock.

  19. gingershot
    April 18, 2012, 2:28 pm

    The biatch watched ‘Inglorious Bastards’ once too often

    • Mooser
      April 18, 2012, 5:22 pm

      I’d rather get plague than watch that drek. And rather just be tortured than watch it in a theater.

  20. lysias
    April 18, 2012, 2:51 pm

    Blond Israelis better think twice about continuing to live in the country.

  21. piotr
    April 18, 2012, 2:52 pm

    This explain the mystery: why Israeli TV showed this video so many times. Ratings. And a related mystery: why the video was so popular.

    By the way, in Poland the reactions to video, as seen on comments, range from ecstatic to ecstatic. Fascists are delighted to see a “far leftist” beaten up (German anarchists showed up on a Polish fascistic parade on Independence Day.) Anti-semites had a good occasion for some juicy invectives. An anti-semitic fascist would be in a quandary.

  22. LanceThruster
    April 18, 2012, 2:59 pm

    First of all, there’s a certain something in the image, of the Jew wearing his yarmulke [religious hat], who looks, you know, like one of the householders in [Jewish] town, and standing against him is the golden-haired Dane, with the Hitler-Jugend look to him.
    The role reversal – I really-really liked it.

    So a golden-hair Hitler-Jugend clubbing a yarmulke-wearing householder in Jewish-town is an act of barbarism and depravity, but in reverse, brings forth a deep sense of pride.

    That is one f#cking magic beanie, baby!

    • Les
      April 18, 2012, 3:52 pm

      This is utterly revealing and both the article and the comments are informative in the best sense of education. Thanks Mondoweiss for making this possible.

      I shared the article and the comments with the subject line:

      What happens to the minds of Zionists who justify their brutality by labeling their opponents as anti-Semites

      • Talkback
        April 18, 2012, 7:35 pm

        “What happens to the minds of Zionists who justify their brutality by labeling their opponents as anti-Semites”

        The same that happened to the minds of those who justified their brutality by labeling their opponents as Jews?

        • Les
          April 18, 2012, 8:17 pm

          This duality recalls the commemorative coin Goebbels had minted to celebrate Nazi and Zionist collaboration, with the swastika on one side and the star of David on the other.

          link to jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com

        • mariapalestina
          April 18, 2012, 8:24 pm

          Labels are always a problem, and I agree that both zionists and anti-semites are tarred with the same brush. It might be a good idea, though, for Jews, or many Jews, to stop flaunting their “Jewishness” and setting themselves apart and sometimes above non-Jews. It never occurs to me that somebody is or is not Jewish, because I’m not into labels. Nowadays we hardly even notice if somebody is non-white. But this “Jewish State” thing is what angers and alienates people. So for the most part the “labelling” of Jews comes from Jews themselves.

    • Mooser
      April 23, 2012, 12:51 pm

      “That is one f#cking magic beanie, baby!”

      Don’t knock it, Lance. You try wearing a well-cut dark suit, and a co-ordinated-but subtle tie and yarmulke combination, and tell me you don’t feel like a million. I tell you from experience, it’s magic! And the magic certainly wasn’t coming from my Towncraft jacket.

      • Mooser
        April 23, 2012, 12:56 pm

        And if you think the magic is going to stop, Google: “MIT wearable computer, or “computer fabric” or “nano-computers”. I tell you it’s just beginning! And who needs heavy batteries when it’s pointed directly at the Earth’s biggest source of power!
        The yarmulke of the future is just around the corner. So don’t step on it.

  23. elephantine
    April 18, 2012, 3:31 pm

    I think who ever identifies with this sort of twisted, hateful, paranoid mentality needs therapy. Not more guns, bombs or power…serious therapy. The things I jeep reading coming from supposedly average Israelis, is just certifiably nuts. It’s just so nuts I have a difficult time finding the words for it, or even understanding it. It’s truly disturbing.

  24. Kathleen
    April 18, 2012, 3:43 pm

    I have heard and know many Jewish racist. Brutal and pathetic words. Telling

    • seafoid
      April 18, 2012, 3:59 pm

      They are like poison in the body of Judaism.

      • Kathleen
        April 19, 2012, 10:09 am

        When I spent time listening to and talking with Rabbi Weiss and several other Rabbi’s against Zionism at the Occupy Aipac gathering this year and last. They remind me a great deal of pure believers like Art and Peggy Gish. Just real believers in following the ten commandments. Folks who really walk the talk
        link to youtube.com
        link to youtube.com
        link to aljazeera.com

        • seafoid
          April 19, 2012, 3:37 pm

          The people who led West Germany through the 1950s were nowhere on the radar in the early 40s. Judaism is going to need people like Rabbi Weiss to put the community back on its feet when Zionist apartheid breaks down and the Israelis come to realise that everything they thought they knew about their society was nuts.

  25. Elisabeth
    April 18, 2012, 3:48 pm

    My kids are blond. They do not look like Hitler Jugend to me, but I will keep them away from the ‘Holy Land’ just to be sure. The hostile and racist mentality behind these remarks and behind the policies of the present Israeli regime should vanish from the page of time. I must be a ‘born anti-Semite’.

    • seafoid
      April 18, 2012, 4:02 pm

      Still, give an Israeli Jew a choice between a blond and a coffee coloured Ethiopian or, god forbid, a Palestinian as a neighbour and the one who looks most white will get the apartment 99 times out of 100.

      • LanceThruster
        April 18, 2012, 4:14 pm

        Very astute point.

        • seafoid
          April 18, 2012, 5:13 pm

          They only ever invoke the Nazis to be provocative.
          Deep down they hate brown people. Not very deep down.

        • marc b.
          April 18, 2012, 6:56 pm

          it’s complicated. well, not that complicated, but poor irit probably wouldn’t have found it as satisfying if eisner were blond and the danish boy were dusky complected. wouldn’t fit her preconceived, pornographic narrative. it’s not gratifying if it strays too far off script.

      • Fredblogs
        April 18, 2012, 8:51 pm

        Yeah, no racism against Israeli Jews there, just a statement about what every single Israeli Jew would do.

        • Annie Robbins
          April 18, 2012, 9:08 pm

          don’t go slagging the one percenters fred. they pack a punch when they ban together. at least in this country they do.

        • Shingo
          April 18, 2012, 10:03 pm

          Yeah, no racism against Israeli Jews there, just a statement about what every single Israeli Jew would do.

          The only exceptions are those who refuse to participate in the IDF and thus support the occupation.

          Every Israeli who supports the IDF, the settlements and occupation is just as guilty.

        • seafoid
          April 19, 2012, 4:10 am

          Fred

          You’ll be entitled to moan when “Israeli Arabs” get houses in the settlements and they are also permitted to live in any community inside the Green Line.

        • Mooser
          April 23, 2012, 12:27 pm

          “Yeah, no racism against Israeli Jews there, just a statement about what every single Israeli Jew would do.”

          Wait a minute Fredblogs, “Israeli” is a “race” now? I thought Jews were the race, and “Israeli” the Jewish self-self-determined nationality.
          At any rate, your comment sure validates the truth of the Biblical statement: “The race is not always to the swift.”

  26. PeaceThroughJustice
    April 18, 2012, 4:44 pm

    Remember the argument against BSD, that it would engender a “siege mentality” among Israelis? That first we must win their trust and then they will make concessions? Well just how long do you think it would take to win the trust of Irit Linur?

    • ritzl
      April 18, 2012, 5:35 pm

      Yup. Can the vast majority of Israelis be driven to separate themselves from the rest of the world, or are they already there? I think, already there.

      BDS is about power to counter what already is, as opposed to affecting [already intransigent] beliefs.

  27. Shingo
    April 18, 2012, 5:02 pm

    She said his golden hair made him look like a member of the Hitlerjugend..

    I wonder what she thinks Bibbi’s golden hair makes him look like?

    • seafoid
      April 18, 2012, 5:13 pm

      Bibi’s comb-over makes him look like a twat.

    • Mooser
      April 18, 2012, 5:28 pm

      You know, you guys are missing the entire point; the infinite fungibility of Zionism.
      You keep on expecting some kind of foolish consistency, as if the Zionists would ever be hobbled by the hobgoblin of small minds like that. No, there is only one criteria, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with logical consistency.
      Does it get the Ziocaine flowing, that’s the question.
      If it does, well then it’s true, good and right. If it tends to dampen the high, tends to harsh the liberal Ziocaine mellow, well then, it’s extreme, anarchist, Communist or anti-Semitic.
      And I’d be willing to bet (just don’t ask me to listen to her) that this “Irit” is an expert at provoking the Ziocaine syndrome.

      • RoHa
        April 19, 2012, 2:45 am

        “No, there is only one criteria, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with logical consistency.”

        Which explains why you say “one” and then follow it with the plural of “criterion”.

        • Mooser
          April 23, 2012, 12:38 pm

          “Which explains why you say “one” and then follow it with the plural of “criterion”.

          Help, my syntax has a compound fracture! Thanks, will keep those two straight from now on. Criteria are what you get when lots of criterions get together and agree, right?

  28. Pixel
    April 18, 2012, 5:17 pm
  29. Citizen
    April 18, 2012, 5:18 pm

    “Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu condemned the soldier’s actions, saying: “Such conduct is not characteristic of the soldiers and commanders of the Israeli military, and has no place in the army or the state of Israel.”
    President Shimon Peres said he was shocked, and Benny Gantz, the Israeli chief of staff, described it as “a severe incident, which contravenes the IDF’s values”, saying it would be investigated thoroughly. The IDF routinely claims it is the most moral army in the world.
    However, friends of the suspended IDF officer claimed that the demonstrator had fractured bones in the soldier’s hand before the incident. The soldiers had acted with restraint, tried to calmly disperse the activists blocking the road, and only retaliated when they were attacked, they added.

    Ias said the event had been non-violent, and there had been no verbal exchange or contact between him and the officer before he was hit in the face. He was taken to hospital where he had stitches to his lips.
    “It’s surprising to me that there’s this big reaction,” he said on Israeli television on Monday night, saying that he had seen similar incidents “all the time” in the West Bank.”
    link to ikners.com

  30. Citizen
    April 18, 2012, 5:30 pm

    Here, the spin is that the IDF officer was merely “a Jew fighting back” and has been smeared by anti-semitic edited video: link to jpost.com

    Apparently, Illinois taxpayers have funded this female Israeli propagandist, who reminds me of Streicher, who was hanged at Nuremberg for his speech, writing: link to electronicintifada.net

  31. ritzl
    April 18, 2012, 5:41 pm

    As the collapse of the Israeli narrative continues, she’ll probably be offered the lefty (Colmes) seat on many US talk shows.

  32. Citizen
    April 18, 2012, 6:02 pm

    But a ripple in the Zionist stream:

    link to haaretz.com

  33. Sin Nombre
    April 18, 2012, 7:25 pm

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again now, both as to this Israeli celebrity’s emission and that of that U.S. writer: This is exactly what you get succeeding generations with an ever-increasingly lopsided understanding of history. E.g., the jews as unique. As victims, and as being free from villainry.

    You can talk theory and sentiment at ‘em all you want, it’s our understanding of what’s really been done to us and what we’ve really done to others that makes a difference. Everything else is mere grit under the steamroller of myth-making.

    • Mooser
      April 23, 2012, 1:01 pm

      “This is exactly what you get succeeding generations with an ever-increasingly lopsided understanding of history. E.g., the jews as unique.”

      I agree completely, and I think (did somebody mutter “contradiction in terms, there”?) that idea (“the jews as unique.”) poses as much rhetorical or intellectual danger to the anti-Zionist movement as it does to the Zionists. Maybe more.

  34. Talkback
    April 18, 2012, 7:29 pm

    I see no difference between her and someone who enjoys watching violence while explaining that the victim looked, was born and will die like a Jew. But I wouldn’t go so far to say that she thinks like a Nazi. She’s not aware of her shadow.

  35. Daniel Rich
    April 18, 2012, 8:50 pm

    Fallacy 101

    Say anything outrageous, add holocaust to it, after that, anyone disagreeing with you also denies the holocaust. Discussion won.

    • eGuard
      April 19, 2012, 6:22 am

      First of all, where is holocaust denied on this page?

      Really, this is how to win a discussion: in steps: 1-2-3-4. Congrats, you made all four. In 139 characters.

      • Daniel Rich
        April 19, 2012, 9:11 pm

        @ eGuard,

        Hitler-Jugend look + Nazism.

  36. AJM
    April 18, 2012, 10:52 pm

    Israeli racism never ends. To many, every non-Jewish European is a Nazi or a terrorist. She needs to go cool off, watch some Inglorious Basterds. It’s obviously Israeli policy to indoctrinate their kids to believe the whole world are anti-semites just waiting to wipe them off the map. The film Defamation illustrates it brilliantly on the trip to Auschwitz when the girl is overcome with fear & loathing at the site of a couple of harmless Polish pensioners, imagining the hate filled venom they are spitting at her in indecipherable Polish.

    And yet Israeli’s are applying for second passports at record rates, Berlins Jewish population is booming. Maybe the cats out the bag. Maybe, Jews dont need Israel anymore.

  37. Charon
    April 19, 2012, 1:57 am

    She looks like Ehud Barak’s twin. Seriously.

    • Taxi
      April 19, 2012, 2:16 am

      Beady eyes. Like sharks.

  38. giladg
    April 19, 2012, 2:59 am

    Shows just how little the monoweiss soldiers know about Israel. Israel ArmyRadio is dominated by Leftists who would feel right at home on the monoweiss pages 364 days of the year. Irit Linur has been the darling of the Left and it is nice to see the Left turn on itself when one dares to break rank.

    • Shmuel
      April 19, 2012, 3:51 am

      Shows how little you know about the Israeli left (and MW). Galei Tzahal (IDF Radio) is the voice of the Israeli establishment, which tolerates a certain range of opinions, from centre-left to centre-right. The Israeli centre-left would certainly not feel “right at home” at MW on any day of the year.

      Linur is the darling of a certain part of the left (primarily for her anti-religious persepctive – a factor that often defines “left” in Israel) and, as such, was chosen as “the leftist” for “Ha-milah ha-ahronah” (The Last Word – the programme on which she made the statements cited in this post). Her views on Zionism and “the justness of our cause” are thoroughly mainstream.

      In this particular case, Linur made an ass of herself – as she often does – and got some flak for it (as well as a good deal of support). The idea of Linur somehow “breaking rank” with her “comrades” and being “turned on” as a result is pretty funny.

      • giladg
        April 19, 2012, 5:56 am

        Shmuel, why don’t you list the personalities on IDF Radio, who dominate the morning, afternoon and evening shows, who represent anything but the left. I can list Dayan, Barkai, Raskin, Friedman. And then they put on young soldiers at various times who think its “fab” to run down the Right, like recently calling on Netanyahu to extend his oversees trip as not being at home prevents him from doing further damage.
        Now your turn.
        Irit Linur has begun to understand that the Left has some gaping holes in their world view. This happens from time to time to those who start listening to the other side instead of shouting them down.

        • justicewillprevail
          April 19, 2012, 7:08 am

          Ah yes, those gaping holes – the left are not racist enough, and don’t constantly peddle hate speech like the majority of Israeli commentators. And they don’t approve of unprovoked violence and assault, as this goon does (who doesn’t just approve, but positively revels in it and applauds it). It wouldn’t matter what one idiot thinks, but the reason it has traction is that it exposes the widely held isolationist, prejudiced bigotry of Israeli culture, one which it encourages in poorly schooled bullies like the above.

        • Shmuel
          April 19, 2012, 7:44 am

          Yes, yes, that old battle horse of the right (and Netanyahu in particular): the “hostile” “leftist” media. Apart from the instrumentalisation of this accusation and the ridiculous assumption that media must be “national” (i.e. nationalist), Galei Tzahal is entirely within the “consensus” – particularly when it comes to topics such as Zionism, Holocaust, the “no partner” excuse and, for the most part, the “normality” of most of the settlements. Editorial policy is determined by the station commander – in coordination with the IDF Spokesman, particularly when it comes to matters concerning the military itself. (News reports concerning the IDF actually require IDF Spokesman approval prior to broadcast).

          The programme in which Linur participates was specifically developed to present ideas beyond the consensus – both to the right and to the left. In the original lineup, Linur was the secular “leftist” and Uri Orbach (now a far-right member of Knesset) the religious right-winger. Eventually, they were joined by Jackie Levi (Mizrahi, religious and moderate) and others. Part of the concept was also to find the common denominator, to show where right and left, religious and secular basically agree. Linur has performed that role admirably.

          Again, the idea that Linur suddenly realised that there is some sort of lacuna in her “team”‘s worldview and therefore sided with the other “team” is simply wrong. She is consistently centre-left mainstream (her comments about Eisner included), with a little anti-religious extremism and feminism thrown in from time to time, and a considerable “davka”, Mary-contrary twist.

        • giladg
          April 19, 2012, 8:46 am

          The Right, in Israel, does not peddle hate speech. They peddle the absurd idea that Jews have rights as well. The Left are always prepared to sacrifice anything that smells of nationalism, and to anyone. This is called being short sighted and committing suicide. It’s okay for the other side to rally around Islam and Islamic symbols, but not for Jews. It’s okay for Palestinians to fly the nationalistic flag, but don’t let the Jews do the same. The alliance between Islam, Christian Palestinians and the secular left has nothing in common other than the hate for Jews. And this blinds the three of them.

        • Shmuel
          April 19, 2012, 9:26 am

          The Right, in Israel, does not peddle hate speech.

          Never. Not against Palestinians. Not against the Israeli “left”. Not against non-Jews. Not against international activists.

          They peddle the absurd idea that Jews have rights as well.

          As well as whom?

          The Left are always prepared to sacrifice anything that smells of nationalism, and to anyone.

          If you are referring to the Israeli “left”, it is thoroughly nationalist.

          The alliance between Islam, Christian Palestinians and the secular left has nothing in common other than the hate for Jews. And this blinds the three of them.

          No “hate speech” there. No generalisations. No prejudice. No blindness.

        • eljay
          April 19, 2012, 9:41 am

          >> It’s okay for the other side to rally around Islam and Islamic symbols, but not for Jews.

          Jews have every right to rally around Jewish symbols all they want, just as Muslims have every right to rally around Islamic symbols all they want. What neither religious group has the moral right to, however (and IMO), is to create a religion-supremacist state in which citizens who belong to that religious group have more / a different set of rights than citizens who do not belong to that religious group.

          >> It’s okay for Palestinians to fly the nationalistic flag, but don’t let the Jews do the same.

          Israel is free to fly the Israeli flag.

          But if what you want is for Jews to fly the Jewish flag of Jewishstan, make Jewish a nationality, one which can be bestowed bureaucratically on existing non-Jewish citizens, and acquired bureaucratically by immigrants. By doing so, all citizens in the secular, democratic and egalitarian state of Jewishstan will have the same set of rights and can be proud of their Jewish nationality.

        • Woody Tanaka
          April 19, 2012, 10:03 am

          The Right, in Israel, does not peddle hate speech…. The alliance between Islam, Christian Palestinians and the secular left has nothing in common other than the hate for Jews. And this blinds the three of them.

          Mods, really. Are you really going to let this kind of bigoted and hasbara bullshit continue to infest this site? I have to tell you, the amount of nonsense which this idiot, as well as others like the newest Zio-dopes, Fredblogs and dimwitdog, are permitted to spew is enough for me to dial back my participation. There is really no margin in debating with parasites like these.

        • Philip Weiss
          April 19, 2012, 10:13 am

          Thanks Shmuel. Dispositive

        • giladg
          April 19, 2012, 12:09 pm

          Unfortunately eljay, some of the Jewish symbols just happen to be Islamic symbols as well. Only that Israel recognizes the importance of these to Islam but Islam both educates and encourages the denial of the Jewish connection. How are we to ever move towards true peace with an attitude like this? You tell me eljay.
          This has nothing to do with a super state , elitism or anything about Jews being better than anyone else. The Jews are the chosen people. This does not mean that they are better. It is your interpretation of this biblical message that you need to work out and understand for yourself. Try not to project your own discomfort with this on an entire nation. The story goes that G-d approached different nations and asked if they would be prepared to accept the word of the Almighty. Only until G-d offered this to Abraham and he accepted, did the concept of the chosen people come into play. They were chosen to keep the word of G-d. Others did not want to. Subsequently they have but the Jews started the ball rolling.

        • eljay
          April 19, 2012, 12:57 pm

          >> Unfortunately eljay, some of the Jewish symbols just happen to be Islamic symbols as well. Only that Israel recognizes the importance of these to Islam but Islam both educates and encourages the denial of the Jewish connection. How are we to ever move towards true peace with an attitude like this?

          So you believe that Israel’s troubles with its neighbours stem from disagreements over symbols, and have nothing to do:
          - with Jewish terrorism and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and lands;
          - with the establishment of a religion-supremacist state on stolen and cleansed lands;
          - with Israel’s 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder; and
          - with Israel’s consistent refusal to enter into sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace.

          My goodness! How are we to ever move towards true peace with an attitude like this?

          >> The Jews are the chosen people.

          The Jews are the “chosen people” because they declared themselves so when they created their religion. Big surprise there! (not)

          >> This does not mean that they are better.

          Of course it doesn’t mean they’re better. Jews are just as human as everyone else. Unfortunately, many Jews can’t seem to accept that fact.

        • Woody Tanaka
          April 19, 2012, 1:32 pm

          “The Jews are the chosen people.”

          Oh, not this silly bullshit again…

        • Citizen
          April 19, 2012, 2:09 pm

          Jewish “chosenness” is a perennial topic; here’s a recent entry on FDL:
          link to my.firedoglake.com

          It has been said that the Torah is explained/interpreted by the Talmud; an analogy may be US founding documents and the federal judiciary all the way up to SCOTUS.

          Here’s some upbeat versions of Jewish choseness: link to judaism.about.com

        • Citizen
          April 19, 2012, 3:36 pm

          I think Atzmon’s distinction between speaking as a Jew, or organizing as a Jew first, is the root issue. Appeals to tribe leave a bad taste in my senses, even when ostensibly well-meaning; I say this, knowing Phil started this blog because he himself was struggling with the issue, and its ramifications in the 21st Century while being aware of the historical past.
          In recent reactions to the BDS movement, writers like Peter Beinart, Daniel Levy and Thomas Friedman have offered criticism. This criticism, however, which views the question of Palestine through the prism of Zionism, is incapable of grappling with a movement that views the same question through a humanist perspective of rights.

          In a lengthier article for the Atlantic, Daniel Levy recently expanded on a point Beinart made in his New York Times Op-Ed and one that is more or less reflected in Friedman’s column demanding boycott activists carry a map of a two-state solution with them at all times…

        • Talkback
          April 19, 2012, 6:09 pm

          giladg: “The alliance between Islam, Christian Palestinians and the secular left has nothing in common other than the hate for Jews. And this blinds the three of them.”

          How unbelievably stupid is it to break this political opposition you obvioulsy hate down to antisemitism?

        • giladg
          April 20, 2012, 1:37 am

          Sometimes the answers are there staring at you in the face and you see nothing.

        • OlegR
          April 22, 2012, 10:34 am

          He still didn’t answer the primary question though
          /why don’t you list the personalities on IDF Radio, who dominate the morning, afternoon and evening shows, who represent anything but the left./

          Because he can’t.There are no such personalities.
          It’s not really relevant to this debate rather then to the age long strife between
          “Left” and “Right” in Israel.

        • OlegR
          April 22, 2012, 10:41 am

          /is incapable of grappling with a movement that views the same question through a humanist perspective of rights./

          Rights don’t exist in thin air they are achieved through political change on the
          ground of reality. The BDS avoids talking about that reality and that is their main problem in the eye of Zionists such as myself.They are not stating their
          political end game clearly and that makes me agree (God knows how can this be but it is) with the interpretation of professor Finkelstein.

        • Annie Robbins
          April 22, 2012, 10:56 am

          political change on the ground of reality. The BDS avoids talking about that reality

          huh? like this:

          link to imemc.org

          or this:

          link to mondoweiss.net

          more where that came from:

          link to mondoweiss.net

        • OlegR
          April 22, 2012, 10:59 am

          Nope Annie nice try to divert attention .
          What is BDS’s political end game and i am not interesting in hearing
          “we want human rights”.I am interested in how they are supposed to be achieved, what’s the political endgame?

        • Annie Robbins
          April 22, 2012, 11:13 am

          what’s the political endgame?

          you just told me you were not interested in hearing the political endgame.

          btw, i already read mr hasbara’s (Eran Shayshon Director of National Security & Global Affairs at the Reut Institute) refreshed talking pts today oleg so spare us your observations about who is or is not diverting on this 200 comment thread. pleeeeease.

          i know very well how this works. any really popular thread that makes israel look bad gets trolled for days and filled up with a bunch of crap.

        • OlegR
          April 22, 2012, 11:22 am

          /you just told me you were not interested in hearing the political endgame./
          Nope annie still diverting but that’s ok.
          You want Israel gone or changed to such a degree that it won’t be a state of Israel in the sense that most Israelis want it to be.
          Fine that’s your right, keep on working at it you are not the first nor the last one to try.

          /i know very well how this works. any really popular thread that makes israel look bad gets trolled for days and filled up with a bunch of crap./
          Trust me Annie this thread was crap from the get-co
          most of the threads on Mondoweiss are crap (the articles are sometimes ok).

        • Annie Robbins
          April 22, 2012, 12:42 pm

          You want Israel gone or changed to such a degree that it won’t be a state of Israel in the sense that most Israelis want it to be.

          poor oleg, didn’t get the answer he wants so he answers for me. anyone can play that game, boring.

          Nope annie still diverting but that’s ok.

          endgame link to thefreedictionary.com

          2. The final stage of an extended process or course of events: the diplomatic endgame that led to the treaty.

          bds strategy is simple. boycott divestment and sanctions til israel agrees to equality/human rights. that’s all there is to it. their strategy is not complicated. there’s nothing hidden and there’s no diversion. you just don’t like it. reminds me of when some iof person said ‘we don’t do gandhi very well’. your ilk are just more comfortable with violent opponents and evil intent, so predictable link to mondoweiss.net

          We want to caution from falling into the trap of a good atmosphere…

        • Danaa
          April 22, 2012, 1:23 pm

          I agree with Woody who called out the mods on the poster gildag. This one is not out for debate or discussion but for vituperation and smear. He just accused christians, moslems and “leftists” of being anti-semitic through and through – with not even a hint of a caveat. This is pure name calling of the first degree and should not, IMO, be tolerated, much less debated among civilized people. Certain people got banned from here for a heck of a lot less than that.

          It really seems all wrong when individuals are permitted into a discussion whose one and only intent is obviously to provoke. If people want to see examples of that type of extreme ultra-nationalist zio mentality, they can look through the Haaretz talkbacks (now a sad, sad, remnant of their former selves) or even worse, ynet. I can’t recommend translating talkbacks and/or facebook comments from Hebrew because I fear that to even cite most such comments, or draw attention to them, would be to wake dormant strands of anti-semitism – not entirely unjustified this time. Which is kind of what Gildag is trying to get at. Right along with the poster Fredblobs. They have effectively accused the blog owners of anti-semitism and hate speech several times over. If you let these two stick around in the face of continuing violations of comment guidelines then you hollow out your own policy and can’t expect us to take it seriously.

          Please send these two elsewhere (or what? says the mods. you will bring up Gilad again?).

        • PeaceThroughJustice
          April 22, 2012, 2:01 pm

          Remember when Phil asked “When is someone going to lose his job for calling someone an anti-Semite?” Why don’t we we start here.

          Anyone who uses this highly problematic term as if it had a clear meaning is either a naive fool, or a scoundrel.

        • seafoid
          April 22, 2012, 2:40 pm

          “most of the threads on Mondoweiss are crap”

          Oleg. play your part in the cleanup and stay away !
          Hasbara is dead.

        • Taxi
          April 22, 2012, 3:31 pm

          “most of the threads on Mondoweiss are crap”

          And you’re just the fly who like a good old fashioned landing, right?

        • Mooser
          April 23, 2012, 12:47 pm

          The alliance between Islam, Christian Palestinians and the secular left has nothing in common other than the hate for Jews.”

          Ah yes, it’s the settlers, their Rabbis, the ultra-religious and the Haredim who will save Israel. Only they are worthy of God’s attentions and can petition Him. You think God listens to “the secular Left”? Please, get a grip.

          I agree with Giladg, there’s just no such thing as being too Jewish for Israel! Like God is going to part any waters for Reform or secular Jews! Why, He wouldn’t even recognise them! Where are their kippahs?
          As Israel becomes more secular, or even atheist, God rewards Israel with His favor less and less.

        • Mooser
          April 23, 2012, 1:13 pm

          “There is really no margin in debating with parasites like these.”

          Haven’t you noticed the wonderful symbiotic relationship Mondoweiss has with those commenters? It works out very much in Mondoweiss’s favor. First of all, there’s the persona everyone projects through their writing. That doesn’t work in their favor, unless Mondoweiss has become the go-to resource for sociopaths looking for an outlet, who might think about making aliyah to a place where their salient characteristics are appreciated on a national level.
          And second, the fantastic ingenuousness of stupidity and bigotry in their comments gives Mondoweiss editors, I would guess, a pretty good guide to the excuses and fabrications most likely to be secreted by Zionists in any given situation, and as such, a guide through regions of special pleading and political lowest-common-denominators they might be unwilling or unable to get to on their own.
          And besides, pondering the question: “What on earth do those losers think they are accomplishing, and why do they think it’s their appointed task to do something they have not the slightest aptitude for” has given me several seconds of fun, now and then.

        • Mooser
          April 23, 2012, 1:19 pm

          “The Jews are the chosen people.”

          How can you be so stupid? Obviously, the Koreans are the chosun people. For “G-d’s” sake, an entire war was fought over it.

          Say, isn’t it lovely how you can just sort of carelessly write about “god” but when you need a quick religious boner fido (like a Peke dog humping your ankle) you start with the “G-d”.
          Yes, sirree, that “-” is as good as a prayer shawl, phylacteries and several hours of davaning. Me, I’ll be in the living room divaning for a couple of hours. There’s nothing like a good nap.

        • Mooser
          April 23, 2012, 1:21 pm

          But don’t you just love the way Giladg (or whichever of the crew it was) shifts into his Rabbi-mode, and then tells that completely plointless and completely idiotic, not to mention false, story?
          He must have one of the new computer-fabric yarmulkes informing his nano-brain.

  39. Refaat
    April 19, 2012, 4:29 am

    I am not surprised. I am only surprised that some are surprised.

  40. Citizen
    April 19, 2012, 4:45 am

    Should travel warnings be issued for those who are not Jewish and want to fly to visit the Holy Land? This should include what one can wear, say, and to whom–in the interest of preservation of the local endangered species.
    link to haaretz.com

    On a related note, Denmark and Sweden have decided they will not follow Israeli screening security measures at their airports; seems the Scandinavians are having a problem with a process aimed to prevent flying while being Arab or Muslim….or Nordic-looking?

  41. stevelaudig
    April 19, 2012, 5:13 am

    How do you say “blood libel” in Danish?

    • mig
      April 19, 2012, 12:08 pm

      steve :

      How do you say “blood libel” in Danish?

      Blod bagvaske, or blod bagtale.

  42. DICKERSON3870
    April 19, 2012, 3:12 pm

    RE: “She (Irit Linur) said his (the Danish peace activist’s) golden hair made him look like a member of the Hitlerjugend, and said about him and other activists: “they were born anti-Semites and will die anti-Semites” – a shameful slander, especially considering what the Danes, whose underground was granted a blanket designation as Righteous Among the Nations for their efforts during World War II to rescue the Danish Jews.” ~ Dena Shunra

    ALSO SEE: “The Norwegians, the settlers, the zealot, the olive seedlings– and the Palestinian’s suit against ‘Nobody’ “, by Philip Weiss, Mondoweiss, 3/18/12

    (excerpts). . . First, here is the International Middle East Media Center’s report on the Norwegians’ work at the village of Beit Iskaria, near the Israeli settlement Eleazar, on March 7:
    On Wednesday morning a group of 11 Norwegian students and their teacher joined Yassin Da’doua on his land to plant 200 olive trees as part of the olive tree planting campaign organized by Joint Advocacy Initiative of East Jerusalem YMCA and YWCA of Palestine.
    The group along with the Palestinian farmer and his family managed to plant half of the trees on Wednesday before the leader of the radical settler organization ‘Women in Green’, Nadia Matar, arrived along with two other Israeli settlers who started taking photos of the young Norwegians.
    “Your grandparents have killed my grandparents in the holocaust and now you are helping the Arabs to steal our land. This is the land for the people of Israel. You are helping the wrong people. You are like the Nazis.” Matar shouted at the Norwegian students. . .
    . . . “How can they call me a Nazi? My grandparents fought the Nazis during the second world war,” said one of the Norwegian students responding to Matar comments.

    Video is here. . . – link to tv2.no [The video takes a while to load, but it is well worth the wait to see and hear this freaking nutjob, Nadia Matar. Incredible! What a "freak show"! - J.L.D.]

    SOURCE – link to mondoweiss.net

    • DICKERSON3870
      April 19, 2012, 3:31 pm

      P.S. “The video takes a while to load, but it is well worth the wait to see and hear this freaking nutjob, Nadia Matar.” ~ me, above

      COMMENT: The Dissociative State of Israel™, needs better mental health care! Why isn’t this Nadia Matar in the Kfar Shaul Mental Health Center built on what was Deir Yassin before the 1948 massacre?!?!
      Dissociation (psychology) - link to en.wikipedia.org

      FROM A FILM REVIEW BY GILAD ATZMON, 1/15/10:

      (excepts) I urge every person on this planet to watch Yoav Shamir’s “Defamation”, a documentary about anti-Semitism. . .
      …He provides us with some intimate footage of Israeli youth being indoctrinated into collective anxiety and total neurosis just before they join the IDF.
      The general image we are left with is no less than grotesque. The film elaborates on the aggressive vulgar orchestrated amplification of fear amongst Israelis and Zionist Jews. “We are raised to believe that we are hated” says an Israeli high school girl on her way to a concentration camp…
      …Shamir provides us with an opportunity to see how badly young Israelis behave once in Poland. You watch their contempt to the local population and disrespect to Polish people and institutes. You can also watch Israelis project their hatred onto others. For some reason they are convinced that everyone out there is as merciless as they happen to be. The Israeli youngsters are saturated with fear, yet, they are having a good time, you can watch them having a party dancing in a bus all the way to a Auschwitz. . .

      ENTIRE FILM REVIEW – link to gilad.co.uk
      “Defamation” can be streamed from Netflix (91 minutes) – link to movies.netflix.com
      “Defamation” is also on YouTube (VIDEO 1:31:18) – link to youtube.com

    • Les
      April 19, 2012, 7:36 pm

      When the Nazis invaded Norway in 1940, the head of Norway’s Parliament fled to Sweden. Lucky for him Sweden remained neutral since he was Jewish. I suspect Nadia Matar knows next to nothing about the Nazis other than the fate of Jews which is why she robotically calls the Norwegians Nazis.

  43. Marlene
    April 21, 2012, 5:01 pm

    “She said his golden hair made him look like a member of the Hitlerjugend, and said about him and other activists: “they were born anti-Semites and will die anti-Semites”

    Interesting comment because the Nazis had a perception of what Jews looked like also. There were plenty of images to go around in Der Sturmer, a Nazi propaganda newspaper. So what we have here is just opposite sides of the same disgusting coin.

  44. kalithea
    April 22, 2012, 3:01 am

    Hmmm…she looks very familiar…

    Oh, I remember! The glasses threw me off for a moment! The eyes give her away…the eyes are the window to the soul and hers is rotten to the core.:

    link to 2.bp.blogspot.com

  45. woohooman
    April 22, 2012, 3:19 pm

    It’s time to reject the hypocritical racist behavior of Jews who hide under their umbrella word ‘antisemite’ whenever it’s convenient to shield themselves from any accountability for their own racist behavior.

    Irit Linur saying that his “golden hair made him look like a member of the Hitlerjugendis” demonstrates even more extreme behavior than she seems to condemn.
    “they were born anti-Semites and will die anti-Semites” can only come from the mouth of a narrow minded bigot.

    • Mooser
      April 23, 2012, 1:25 pm

      “they were born anti-Semites and will die anti-Semites” can only come from the mouth of a narrow minded bigot.”

      You mean it wasn’t her “historical memory” talking?