Yedioth Ahronot cover page, June 18th, 2012
This article was originally published on June 18, 2012 on Abir Kopty’s website.
Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronot published a story today (June 18th, 2012) about a tourist activity offered by Gush Etzion settlements, where visitors can practice how to shoot “terrorists”.
Stories about such tours both in settlements and army bases are always published, but no serious attention given to such scary culture of hatred and violence. (see here one example in Hebrew from 2003)
Shay, extreme tourism instructor:”Your mommy won’t be here to protect you, so stand up like a man,” continuing, “Are you ready to take out a terrorist?”. (Photo: Alex Kolomoisky)
Tourists from across the globe visit Gush Etzion settlements, where they are offered by settlers “enjoyable” package under the name “Hebrew Extreme Tourism” with range of activities that include: story telling about battles, view live shooting performance and an activity where visitors can practice shooting at “terrorists-mechablim” cardboard pictures hung on the wall.
The word used for terrorist in Hebrew is “Mechabel” (mechablim for terrorists). In Israeli discourse this is a synonym for Palestinian.
This is absolutely disgusting. Illegal and immoral settlers/terrorist teaching tourist how to kill.
Yea it is…like it’s some kind of entertainment.
Sick.
American companies organize this stuff. Here is one.
link to ultimatectmission.com
the photos of this beautiful child being taught how to hate just break my heart.
Author of The Color Purple refuses to authorize Hebrew version because ‘Israel is guilty of apartheid’
Alice Walker says Israeli policies were ‘worse’ than the segregation she suffered as an American youth and said South Africans had told her it was worse than Apartheid.
link to haaretz.com
Ha’aretz comments on the color purple.
I guess she is more interested in making her point than doing good
o By jsio
o 19 Jun 2012
o 00:58PM
Surely, a book about racism is an important read in a society accused of racism. Now it will not be read by those m ost in a position to effectuate change. She is a short sighted thinker.
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we can still survive without reading her novel .
o By alexander
o 19 Jun 2012
o 10:47AM
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alice walker
o By Steve Tel Aviv
o 19 Jun 2012
o 10:45AM
No one ever said that you had to be intelligent to write a book. One good example of an idiot and a fool.
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As usual
o By Rab Burns
o 19 Jun 2012
o 10:34AM
My first post was not allowed by the moderator.enough to say that this person is misinformed in Israel Arabs are allowed just about everywhere that includes mixing with anyone.Arabs can build mosques and worship just about anywhere.Arabs are well represented inthe universities and are not segregated.Arabs mix freely on public transport and mix freely .Arabs are in the armed forces are doctors shopkeepers or owners taxi drivers security guards guides etc.Wherever you go you find large groups of Arabs who are treated the same as everyone else.I have never seen an Arab abused on the stret or anywhere in this country.I am friendly with some Arabs and they call me family btw I am.a Zionist and they know it.Yes there are problems but doesnt every country on earth have some racism.Finally I cannot go to Saudi Arabia even of they allowed me to visit I could not worship openly and I could. It build a place of worship.Bare in mind Jews were there well before Islam was invented.
Actually, Seafoid, the title in Haaretz is (deliberately?) misleading. Alice did not even mention the word Hebrew in her letter. Here’s an update on +972 magazine which initially posted the same title before correcting it:
“Update at 3:36pm — The title of this post was changed from “…boycotts Hebrew translation” to “…boycotts Israeli publisher’s translation” to reflect the difference between the two. Indeed, Walker’s letter to the publisher never mentions the Hebrew language, and the State of Israel and its private companies do not have a monopoly over the language. As pointed out by Ali Abunimah, Walker effectively copies the model of fellow author Noami Klein, who distinguishes between boycotting Israeli companies and boycotting Israelis.”
link to 972mag.com
Hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist citizens of an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist state – living on stolen, cleansed and/or occupied land – teach budding oppressors how to shoot “terrorists”. How wonderfully ironic.
From the ynet article:
>> Michel Brown, 40, a Miami banker, chose to take his wife and three children to the range with the purpose of “teaching them values.” Upon entering the range, his five-year-old daughter, Tamara, bursts into tears. A half hour later, she is holding a gun and shooting clay bullets like a pro. “This is part of their education,” Michel says as he proudly watches his daughter. “They should know where they come from and also feel some action.”
Michel Brown is one sick f*ck.
This sort of thing is only possible from a society that has been dehumanised to the point that it has completed the process of niggerising its neighbors.
link to lesley.edu
In his writing about how the exhibition affected him as a Black male spectator, Als reveals that in the photographs and postcards he re-viewed an existential reincarnation of himself: “I am not dead” as the bodies in the photographs, explains Als, “but I have been looked at, watched, and it’s the experience of being watched, and seeing the harm in people’s eyes—that prelude to becoming a dead nigger.” “What is the relationship,” he asks as a Black male intellectual and writer, “of the white people in these pictures to the white people who ask me and sometimes pay me to be [their] Negro?” [10]
Similar to Litwack and other historians of lynching in the U.S., Als reveals that the idea behind the lynch mob mentality is to deny the inhumanity of the act by dehumanizing the victim, exacerbating and manufacturing their guilt, and legitimating and affirming their right to use extra-legal means as a tool to silence dissent and assert social control. Lynching is a dialectic between not only the lynchers, lynched, and the whites that stand by and watch then, but lynching is also a dialectic between the lynched and the members of the group who identify with the mutilated body racially, culturally, or ideologically. Because lynching is a means of social control, essential to the act is to intimidate others who might cross and transgress similar boundaries. Als uses the example of lynching to suggest that in our current racial milieu, this leads historically marginalized groups to “exercise a similar sensitivity where white people are concerned, [in order] to avoid being lynched by their tongues or eyes.” [11] On this form of intimidation, Als asks the reader/viewer to consider the trauma that the families of the lynched throughout history incurred, too. He writes: “Did the families in these pictures stand at the periphery and wait for it all to be over, when someone, maybe the youngest among them, could climb the tree and cut Cousin or Mother or Father down?” [12]
The Cross and the Lynching Tree.
way worse than this…. link to atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com
Way worse or exactly the same?
WTF are any of these parents thinking to hand their children machine guns??
Some American was in the news late last year when his son shot himself in the face during a dad-son bonding session over automatic weapons.
so introducing kids to guns is dumb. But dehumanising Palestinians in the name of religion is even worse.
Those who frequent shooting galleries for extreme fun are completely different from those who aim (sic) to get rid of the Jews. Your suggestion of moral equivalence shows the color of your bias.
Mayhem :
Who aims to get rid of jews ?
Yes Mayhem – who exactly are you talking about?
And this is disingenuous.
They aren’t shooting galleries where you hit the metal duck and win a stuffed toy – it’s “shooting terrorists”. Do you think the participants expect to be shooting:
• illegal Israeli settler terrorists who firebomb mosques, write “death to arabs” graffiti and terrorise Palestinians across the West Bank? OR/
• IDF terrorists who fry children with white phosphorous, force entire extended families into homes then order missile strikes on them, or bulldoze hundreds of Palestinians family homes every year? OR/
• just plain old Palestinians terrorists?
Let’s review the author’s final paragraph:
The word used for terrorist in Hebrew is “Mechabel” (mechablim for terrorists). In Israeli discourse this is a synonym for Palestinian.
Pretty clear, right?
I cannot say the bleeding obvious because I will be blindly labelled as an islamophobe.
>> Your suggestion of moral equivalence shows the color of your bias.
Meanwhile, you show your hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist bias by glossing over the fact that the extreme-fun shooting gallery in question is being operated by Zio-supremacist colonists of an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist state, who are living on stolen, cleansed and/or occupied land.
If the roles were reversed – if a few Arab “settlers” were bringing Arab tourists to a shooting gallery in the “Disputed Territory of the Former Jewish State of Israel” (DTotFJSI) for some “extreme fun” events in which the tourists were encouraged to shoot and kill “terrorists” – you wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss concerns so glibly.
@eljay, your opiniated diatribe dotted with emotive language poses spurious hypotheticals and does not acknowledge one jot of the fact that the Islamic anti-Zionists are hell bent on the destruction of the state of Israel and have been all along.
You express your hypocritical shock that pockets of ‘extreme’ activity happen to spring up in a climate of hate that has been propagated throughout history.
We might differ on fundamentals about the I/P conflict, but when you read what gets said (refer link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org ) there can be no surprise at Israeli reaction.
Children like playing with guns, so it is a good way of making school less boring, or a preschool for that matter. Heavy machine gun of WWII vintage is particularly impressive
link to youtube.com
This is video made in Latvia. Unfortunately for the preschool program, Russians living in Latvia complained about Waffen SS uniforms and Ministry of Education instructed the preschool to discontinue.
There’s a shot of German children being instructed in the use of gunsby Wehrmacht soldiers in the first episode of the 1970′s Thames Television series The World at War. I think it takes place in 1930′s Germany.
As others have pointed out before, if these tourists had been Muslim, Obama would have ordered a drone strike.
Great point! Thinking about it, that’s the literal truth.
Is Mondoweiss going to cover the New Yorker’s “Means of Suppressing Demonstrations”
by Shani Boianjiu?
link to newyorker.com
I can’t wait to hear your thoughts.
here pedestrian:
link to mondoweiss.net
And israelis complain about the violence on Palestinian Sesame Street!
It’s like cops and robbers. Though I can see why you’d rather compare it to cowboys and Indians. Nothing wrong with shooting terrorists or pretending to shoot terrorists. Now, if they were actually having a “shoot a Palestinian” event, that would be different.
BTW, who says that “Mechabel” is a synonym for Palestinians? No wonder you are so anti-Israel if you’ve been translating the Hebrew for “we must kill the terrorists” as “we must kill the Palestinians”.
LMAO. Yeah, sure, Fredo. I’m sure if some other state had a “shoot the IDF occupier” even you would be totally okay with that, because there’s nothing wrong with shooting and IDF occupier or pretending to shoot an IDF occupier…
Yeah, sure, Fredo. I’m sure if some other state had a “shoot the IDF occupier
Actually, the analogy would be “shoot the occupiers”. I’m sure Fredblogs agrees that if Palestinians children were taught to “shoot the occupiers”, that could mean some hypothetical non-Israel occupiers.
Just like when Ahmadinejad says that the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish, he could mean any number of real or fictional regimes associated in one way or another with Jerusalem.
It’s like cops and robbers.
That’s the most patently idiotic thing I have read all day. And my standards for that are low.
BTW, who says that “Mechabel” is a synonym for Palestinians?
Okay, smart guy: Which non-Palestinian “terrorists” could these settler guys mean? Possibly?
“That’s the most patently idiotic thing I have read all day. And my standards for that are low.”
Oh, don’t be too hard on ol’ Fredo. He’s got a tough assignment; defending every Jewish Israeli, regardless of the merits of the matter, is a tough gig. You should have seen him dancing when he was defending the organ-snatching ogre, Dr. Hiss…
Again, when you misreport the story, man up and take responsibility. Mechabel is used to refer to Palestinian terrorists, not Palestinians in general.
I’m not a fan of little kids playing with automatic weapons. But I’m also an American, where it’s par for the course in certain parts of the country. And for pro-Palestinian people to complain about a few settlers holding an extreme tourism event (clearly because the people who go there are willing to pay for it) is rich given what goes on with kids and weapons in the territories.
“Mechabel is used to refer to Palestinian terrorists, not Palestinians in general.”
And if you haven’t heard pro-israeli people saying that all Palestinians are terrorists — indeed many of you people say that all Arabs are terrorists — then you haven’t been paying attention, because it is one of the most common bigoted lies on your side. And if they’re doing it in English, do you doubt their doing it in Hebrew?
So really, hoppy, excuse the rest of us if we fail to draw the fine distinctions you require between dictionary defintions, common usages, and idioms, when your fellow zionists are smearing millions (if not hundreds of millions) of people based on their ethnicity.
@Hophmi
Don’t hold your breath Hophmi, it takes intellectual honesty and integrity to admit when you are wrong.
@Woody
I’ve been paying attention and I’ve never heard anyone except the fringe, the Israeli equivalent of, well, you. Say that all Arabs or all Palestinians are terrorists. And even they are just saying it as an exaggeration.
“where it’s par for the course in certain parts of the country”
Yes. Over there in US where they teach the concerned citizen and the would be cop how to shoot the homeowners and not the person breaking into the home and smashing the bone of the kids in front of the parents.
>> And for pro-Palestinian people to complain about a few settlers holding an extreme tourism event … is rich given what goes on with kids and weapons in the territories.
This is too funny. If the roles were reversed – if a few Arab “settlers” were bringing Arab tourists into the “Disputed Territory of the Former Jewish State of Israel” (DTotFJSI) for “extreme tourist events” in which the tourists were encouraged to shoot and kill “terrorists” – you can bet that that a pro-Israeli people like hophmi would be whining and wailing about injustice and anti-Semitism, and reminding everyone to “Remember the Holocaust!” And it would be rich given what went on with kids and weapons in the DTotFJSI.
>> … it takes intellectual honesty and integrity to admit when you are wrong.
Funny stuff, coming from a hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist.
LMAO, Well, Fredo, I may be fringe for saying that Palestinians are entitled to human rights, but the fringe once said that slavery was wrong and that Jews had the right be treated like decedent Christian folks. So I’m okay with the fringe.
And if you think that the anti-Palestinian bigotry among zios is only on the fringe, you’re a fool or deluding yourself. It’s the fundamental tenet of your state’s bigoted ideology.
Well said Woody. To be a “Jewish Israeli” is to have racial and colonial privileges over the indigenous Palestinian people; at least 30 racist, supremacist laws within “Israel” solidify and uphold these privileges.
“Which non-Palestinian “terrorists” could these settler guys mean? Possibly?”
EOKA are known to be a real threat to the settlers. And then there are the Mau Mau, the Tamil Tigers, and Sendero Luminoso. And you never know when an MNLA guy might turn up.
If you track who Israel defines as a ‘terrorist’ it is largely equivalent to shooting Palestinians as such. For example, the IDF has claimed victims as young as eight years old were ‘terrorists with long resumes.’ And in fact, settlers, IDF soldiers, and even ordinary Israeli Jews often kill Palestinians apparently just for the fun of it — and only very rarely suffer any penalties for it. It’s pretty much legal to kill Palestinians in Israel. I don’t believe there’s even a season, although there does seem to be a bag limit of sorts.
Don’t forget there are terrorist cows, terrorist chickens, terrorist goats, and terrorist olive trees.
•• Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you ••
Tough gig when even the flora and fauna turn against you. Poor ziobots!
” For example, the IDF has claimed victims as young as eight years old were ‘terrorists with long resumes.’”
Cite? The only source I can find with “terrorists with long resumes” and “eight” is a post you made on another site. Wait, I mean a bunch of posts you made on other sites.
The only other source for “terrorists with long resumes” is about 14 specific deaths, 13 Hamas terrorists, described as “terrorists with long resumes” and one person described as an innocent elderly woman, the mother of one of the terrorists. So, you got any evidence that one of those 13 people was 8?
just when you think the murderous thugs who now run and rule israel cannot possible sink any lower
מחבל Paste it into Google translate. About 20 meanings, including “rope”. Know what meaning it doesn’t have? “Palestinian”.
And israelis and their janitors, like you, don’t equate terrorist with Palestinian IMMEDIATELY, right? Why don’t you pull the other one and tickle my armpit while you’re at it, fredly.
Not all Palestinians are terrorists and not all terrorists are Palestinians. That’s why there are different words for them. It’s a handy way to besmirch someone’s reputation though, deliberately mistranslating their statements about terrorists as statements about Palestinians.
I recall the Israeli media calling the Mavi Marmara passengers “terrorists.” Evidently, the word is used to describe anyone who supports the Palestinian cause.
After they attacked the soldiers, I’m not surprised they were called that. Though strictly speaking they were “fighters” or “jihadis” rather than terrorists, since their targets were soldiers and not civilians. I suppose not everyone makes the fine distinction that even if you are attacking while dressed as civilians, that doesn’t make you a terrorists unless you target civilians.
OOC did they describe the passengers of the ships where everyone came along peacefully as “terrorists”?
“Not all Palestinians are terrorists…” Very true. But as soon as they get shot they magically become terrorists.
“After they attacked the soldiers”
Yeah poor soldiers who were quietly sleeping in their barracks.
Yeah. Remind me to incorporate that into my definition.
Lessee. A ‘terrorist’ is anyone who attempts to resist your oppression — or anyone at all whom you happen to have killed.
But as soon as they get shot they magically become terrorists.
Exactly.
I’m sure that these settlers will be so incredibly generous not to consider Palestinians “terrorists” if they just prostrate themselves, obediently vacate their property and move away to Jordan, and generally accept the superiority of their Jewish masters.
But Palestinians who dare resist in any way, or make the mistake of standing next to those who do: Terrorists, of course.
I could now list in detail how Israel has labeled basically all forms of Palestinian resistance “terrorism”, but I won’t. Because other people have already done that:
link to 972mag.com
I’ll just pick out one example because it sheds some light on what the organized settler community, specifically, considers “terrorism”:
link to ynetnews.com
There could even be ‘ecological terror’ – breathing while Palestinian may use up oxygen needed by a settler!
Fredblogs :
I am. Attack against soldiers ain’t terrorism. Attacks against civilians is.
Let’s just stop here…
Israeli commandos raided the Free Gaza Flotilla many miles into international waters while they were travelling is a westerly direction (away from Gaza). Multiple eyewitness have testified that the Israelis shot live fire from the helicopter before a single soldier landed on the deck. Overall 50 people had gunshot injuries, and not a single Israeli was among them. Nine people died, again, not a single Israeli among them.
Let’s recall also the the ship had all been inspected on multiple occasions before beginning their journey to Gaza – no weapons found. Let’s recall also that the first thing the commandos did after boarding the ships was to confiscate all media and digital devices that recorded the events on board, to hide what they did from the world.
Furthermore let us recall also that the Mavi Marmara was flying a Turkish flag. Attacking a ship in international waters is a declaration of war on that country. Israel and Israelis should be eternally grateful Turkey responded moderately and didn’t request assistance from it’s NATO partners to respond militarily to Israel’s unprovoked attack.
You know what you can do with you ‘attacked the soldier’ schtick, right?
@mig
Which is what I said, if you’d bothered to read it instead of just quoting me out of context. I said I wasn’t surprised, I didn’t say they were right.
such a cute little girl. perhaps she will grow up to be a natural born killer.
A real archytypal mideastern blonde beauty eh.
Those Palestinians with their dark eyes and dark hair are so obviously Polish it isn’t funny. You can see how evil they are that they shipped in all those tens of millions of Hungarian “Egyptians” and Czech “Syrians” to give the impression that they belong to the region.
link to inventionofthejewishpeople.com
“perhaps she will grow up to be a natural born killer.”
Maybe like these kids:
link to idfblog.com
Maybe she’ll grow up to be a Kapo for the Gaza concentration camp.
The nauseating thing is that it’s entirely possible she will.
You can do almost anything if you look at it in the right way. I’m reminded of some of Melita Maschmann’s memories in ‘Account Rendered’ of what she did as a young Nazi activist in Poland. At the time, seizing possessions from Polish peasants just seemed to be right and proper.
No, perhaps she will grow up to be a libertarian anarcho-pacifist advocating for the one country solution, refuse military service and so on.
Evidence that Mechabel is widely used as a synonym for Palestinian, please. According to this source, certainly not a pro-Israel one, it is a term used to describe Palestinian terrorists, not all Palestinians.
link to books.google.com
Is it really surprising that the settlements offer an activity like this? They’ve obviously had experience with infiltrators, such as the people who slaughtered the Fogel family.
@ Hophmi: “Is it really surprising that the settlements offer an activity like this? They’ve obviously had experience with infiltrators, such as the people who slaughtered the Fogel family.”
No, it is not, given the fact that such activities tell us who they are: if you can allow yourself to live in a settlement you will probably love activities like this. Some even take their kids and babies on their adventures, like Fogel did on his ‘sanitizing mission’, infiltrating in someone’s country, steal his land and settle down and exploit it – right under the owner’s nose. So logically, sometimes an infiltrator gets hurt as part of his activity. No surprises here, too.
What actually is surprising is the fact that the police and mills of justice acted, whereas in 99 percent of the killings on the Westbank this is not the case.
For the record: over here it’s forbidden by law what Fogel did. His deeds, and those of his fellows, are considered very serious crimes in this part of the world (as in yours, I believe). Their strive and thoughts are considered unjust, ugly and morally unworthy.
Evidence that Mechabel is widely used as a synonym for Palestinian, please. According to this source, certainly not a pro-Israel one, it is a term used to describe Palestinian terrorists, not all Palestinians.
Hophmi, your own source makes clear that the term does not refer to “terrorists” in general, but specifically to “Palestinian terrorists”.
So, in other words, offering a tourist vacation where Jewish visitors get to practice shooting “mechablim” is the equivalent to offering a tourist vacation where white visitors get to practice shooting “black criminals”. Now, no one should be upset, because they aren’t practicing to shoot all black people, just “black criminals”, right? No, the practice is racist and sick, and the fact that you have your head so far up your Zionist you-know-what is the only thing that prevents you from realizing its inexcusable.
Is it really surprising that the settlements offer an activity like this? They’ve obviously had experience with infiltrators, such as the people who slaughtered the Fogel family.
So, of course, lets make a fun and exciting vacation out of all of this!! That makes no sense whatsoever. And besides, more Israelis were murdered by domestic violence (23) in 2011 than were killed by Palestinians from the occupied territories (21) in the same year, including the Fogel family, assuming the Palestinian boys accused are in fact guilty) . So why not let the little girl in the photo practice shooting her own family members? She’ll likely have just as much or more need for that skill. But of course we can’t have that, can we? It wouldn’t properly promote and enforce racist stereotypes nor encourage the proper xenophobic fear among Jewish Israeli children.
If I’d seized your house and herded you into the garage, I’d probably be on my guard against you myself. It doesn’t follow that somehow I am right and you are wrong — unless of course we are on Planet Israel, I’m a Jew, and you’re not.
Is it really surprising that the settlements offer an activity like this?
No. People who willingly and unnecessarily take their children to live right in the middle of an intensely hostile population (with good reasons to be hostile, but that’s irrelevant to this point) just to establish their tribal entity’s dominance surely don’t have any problems with turning these same children into killing machines to achieve the same end.
The contortions Fredblogs and you go through to defend teaching 5 year olds to kill are amusing to watch, though. Tells us a lot about your allegedly being liberal, pro-peace or whatever label you invent for yourself: In reality, you’re just stooges for the Settler Power, like most lip-service “liberal Zionists” frequenting this site are.
You are clearly oblivious to your own idiocy by referring to Palestinians in the occupied territories as “infiltrators”, but not the illegal settlers.
The settlers are the infiltrators, not Palestinians.
I repeat:
While I condemn without reservation the killing of civilians (Israeli or Palestinian) if they weren’t illegal settlers on occupied Palestinian territory I believe the Fogels would be alive today.
I say shame on any Israeli parent who deliberately puts their children in harms way by making them live as settlers. They are doing something clearly prohibited by the 4th Geneva Convention, and they foolishly expect to be able to do it without consequences.
We know because of the number that they kill Israelis have it in for Palestinian children, but you think they would at least love their own a little more.
Funny how all the Hasbara trolls on here are quick to distinguish between a “Terrorist” and a “Palestinian”.
But ask them about the Palestinian political prisoners held without trial under administrative detention in Israeli prisons and they will be quick to tell you that they are all “Hamasnick murderers” and “pizza parlor bombing terrorists”, especially homphi.
Oh Zionism is so full of contradictions and full of itself. Whatever fits the propaganda of the day, Hasbara is here to make it all OK.
“Funny how all the Hasbara trolls on here are quick to distinguish between a “Terrorist” and a “Palestinian”. ”
Funny how writers on Mondoweiss consistently gets things like this wrong, and then the dittoheads in their peanut gallery try to change the subject instead of manning up and accepting responsibility for the mistake.
Maybe it’s because they don’t actually believe that people who do things like link to ynetnews.com
are terrorists.
You keep piling on more and more fabrications that your case for Israel is starting to look like a pyramid scheme.
You conveniently forgot to mention how the Israeli military got a confession for those killings in the illegal Israeli settlement of Itamar.
Not only was the nearby Palestinian village terrorized, its residents’ personal property vandalized and broken by the military, its residents arrested, both young and old, but several children were taken by the military in order to pressure the village and in order to use them as hostages to get a confession that supported the Israeli narrative.
And on top of it all, Itamar is an Israeli settlement on occupied Palestinian land.
And, the Itamar case is an isolated incident whereas in Israeli prisons sit more than 7,000 Palestinian prisoners.
Again, you keep piling on more and more fabrications that your case for Israel looks like a pyramid scheme, which it is.
You keep digging a larger hole for yourself, Avi G. The Fogel family was murdered in cold blood. That is not a fabrication. It was done by terrorists who are Palestinian. That is not a fabrication. It is definitely far from the first time that Palestinian terrorists have infiltrated a settlement, so it is far from an isolated incident, which is YOUR fabrication.
hophmi says:
You keep digging a larger hole for yourself, Avi G. The Fogel family was murdered in cold blood. That is not a fabrication. It was done by terrorists who are Palestinian.”
The murders of the Fogels said they did it in revenge for settler killings of Palestines.
Face facts hoppie, they were murders sure, but Israelis are also murders.
Bottom line is if you weren’t occupying them and on their land and killing them they would have no reason or incentive to kill settlers or Jews. Maybe they were plain criminals who would have murdered someone else over something else, but they murdered the Fogels for what they represent and where they were.
So as bad as it was, you’re not going to get any traction out of calling them terrorist.
You know, being a copycat isn’t a debate tactic, it’s a childish defense mechanism.
The Fogel family was murdered in cold blood, but what does that have to do with the Palestinians?
Also, you seem unable to understand basic facts: when you terrorize someone into confessing, they’ll say whatever you want them to say.
So to claim that the the murderers were Palestinians, as you allege, is dubious.
As for your claim that Palestinians have “infiltrated” settlements, I think you’ve hit rock bottom with your spin.
So now Palestinians are “infiltrating” their own land? That’s fascinating propaganda. Worse still, it is the colonizers who are infiltrating Palestinian land.
i think they were tortured into confession too. the kid had an operation the day before and was in bed. the whole town was traumatized for a month prior to the ‘confession’.
it’s just not feasible.
plus, the same day it was announced the government used it as a pretext to steal more of the villages land, land they wanted anyway.land they coveted becasue one of their patriarchs is buried there. so there was clearly an opportunity for motive from the israeli side tho that was never even considered.
it would be as if a husband was murdered and the detective decided not to even question the wife because they were married. even tho the wife benefited monetarily from the death.
just not convincing.
Israel was born out of terrorism. Enough said.
I’m sorry — but in Israeli usage, I’ve yet to see any clear distinction between ‘terrorist’ and ‘Palestinian.’ Maybe it’s a matter of context. If one is discussing Palestinians one has no intention of killing just yet, they are ‘Palestinians.’ If one is about to kill them, or they have been killed, they are ‘terrorists.’
Sort of like ‘cows’ and ‘beef.’ Or ‘sheep’ and ‘mutton.’ Is that it?
RE: “The word used for terrorist in Hebrew is ‘Mechabel’ (mechablim for terrorists). In Israeli discourse this is a synonym for Palestinian.” ~ Abir Kopty
MY COMMENT: Or, “zee terrorists”, as Golda Meir used to refer to the Palestinians.
It’s really a very handy intellectual device. All one does is redefine the Palestinians as ‘terrorists’ — and they magically lose all rights.
Presto, as they say.
What do you expect? You boycott Ahava products so alternative plans are made. However your title to the article contains an element of artistic license. A big element that is.
Well, this could be a whole new tourist industry for our Most Reliable Ally In The Middle East/Light Unto The Nations.
I mean, why stop at using Palestinians as faux target practice? With the great intellectual powers of the Israelis, i’m sure it’s only a matter of time before they start to stage re-enactments of the IDF’s and the Mossad’s “Greatest Hits.”
I mean, reall, c’mon folks – who wouldn’t thrill to a re-enactment of the ethnic cleansing of Deir Yassin? Or Ariel Sharon’s murderous raid on Qibya? Who wouldn’t thrill to be a bystander at the massacre of Pally women, children and old men at the Sabra and Shittilla refugee camps? And who wouldn’t want to send letter bombs to unsuspecting Americans and Brits in Egypt as the Lavon Affair is restaged? And kidnap a Mordecai Vannunu look-alike? And, once a year, in the best overblown Michael Bay pyrotechnic style, the IDF can reenact the sneak attack on the USS Liberty. Or the shooting down of the Egyptian civilian airliner over siani in early 1973?
Yep, the possibilities, while not limitless, are not to be sneered at.
Perhaps Shelly Alderson can finance it from his deep pockets of blood-drenched shekels?
This idea, should I ‘TM’ it? I’d hate for it to fall into the wrong hands!
‘ Well, this could be a whole new tourist industry for our Most Reliable Ally In The Middle East/Light Unto The Nations.
I mean, why stop at using Palestinians as faux target practice? With the great intellectual powers of the Israelis, i’m sure it’s only a matter of time before they start to stage re-enactments of the IDF’s and the Mossad’s “Greatest Hits.” ‘
You don’t know how close you are to the truth. There was some Birthright Israel trip that finished up with all the little nippers going out and beating the crap out of a Palestinian shepherd (Boy, I bet that made them feel like MEN), and then there was some American Jew a couple of years back who got into hot water when he started targeting left wing Israeli politicians. Thing was, he’d been going back and forth for years, and had murdered several Palestinians. The Israeli police had been aware of it, too. They let him keep coming back.
So you can see we’ve got all the ingredients. Organized tours glorifying violence. Effectively legalized homicide. Victims that can be classified as ‘terrorists’ at will. Regular airflights and hotel accomodations.
In fact, I bet that RIGHT NOW, if you’re in with the right people, and pay enough money, you can indeed get to go to Israel and kill someone. I wouldn’t be excessively surprised if some do. However, while you could probably arrange to have a photo taken of you with your ‘kill,’ (those I’ve seen as well), I seriously doubt if you could get it mounted and take it home with you.
That would require further advances in our thinking.
Nothing faux about it. Israel is one of the largest arms manufacturers in the world, and all their weapons are ‘battlefield tested’.
Can you guess on who they are tested?
Have you seen Jeff Halper’s great talk on Israel’s arms manufacturers using Palestinians in the OPTs, a captive population, to test & develop their equipment? I’ll supply some links if you haven’t. Important, but sickening.
Round and round the echo chamber.
Pop goes the Hasbra bubble
I wonder if the skinhead wearing a black t-shirt in the photo with the girl is her father, Michel.
FROM a Ynet article: “This is part of their education,” Michel says as he proudly watches his daughter. “They should know where they come from and also feel some action.”
MY SNARK: So she is the product of (came from) a “shotgun marriage”?
P.S. SEE: Father Lets His 8-Year-Old Boy Fire An Uzi machine Gun and It Backfires (VIDEO, 02:29) – link to youtube.com
P.P.S. ALSO SEE: “Boy, 8, accidentally kills self at gun show”, by The Associated Press, 10/27/08
ENTIRE ARTCLE – link to msnbc.msn.com