Latest NBC/WSJ poll shows American sympathies with Israel at lowest point since 1989

The latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll is primarily focused on U.S. domestic politics, but contains some interesting numbers pertaining to Israel/Palestine. The full poll results are available online (PDF), and here is a screenshot of the relevant findings for Israel and how Americans think the Obama administration should engage in the Middle East:

poll

The first interesting finding is that 55% of Americans think the U.S. government should treat Israel and the Palestinians “the same” rather than favoring one over the other. Only 31% of respondents answered the U.S. should favor Israel. The “special relationship” suddenly doesn’t look so special.

The bigger surprise is when the poll asks “In the Middle East situation, are your sympathies more with the Israelis or more with the Palestinians?” and only 45% say they sympathize more with Israel. This is down from a high water mark of 61% just two and half years ago. The percentage of Americans sympathizing more with Israel hasn’t been this low in nearly 25 years since the height of the first intifada in April, 1989 when it stood at 36%.

What accounts for the drop? It’s impossible to tell for sure. The poll was taken February 21-24 which followed high profile drama surrounding the Israel lobby and Hagel nomination, mainstream headlines about Israeli soldiers’ photos on Instagram and the publicity surge accompanying 5 Broken Cameras and The Gatekeepers at the Oscars. Still, that doesn’t seem to explain a 15 point drop. More than anything it seems to reflect the general trend we follow here on the site that public perception towards Israel is shifting and the ongoing occupation is eroding American support for the country.

About Adam Horowitz

Adam Horowitz is Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.
Posted in Israel/Palestine, US Policy in the Middle East, US Politics

{ 40 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. Sycamores says:

    one poll is not a trend. however it is encouraging and maybe a critical mass has been reach. only time can tell.

    • bob says:

      Americans May Sympathize With Israel, But They Want a More Even-Handed Policy, Say Walt & Mearsheimer | November 17, 2008

      We think that the discussion on your blog about the recent poll commissioned by the Israel Project misses a critical issue.

      The fact that 57 percent of the respondents “support” or “strongly support” Israel,
      while only 6 percent “support” or “strongly support” the Palestinians
      is not surprising and is consistent with past findings. As Jeff
      Blankfort correctly points out, this is due in good part to the fact
      that Israel’s supporters stifle criticism of Israel in the media, while
      working hard to demonize the Palestinians. But even if we had an open
      and freewheeling discourse about Israel in this country, we believe
      that most Americans would still be sympathetic to Israel and certainly
      support its existence.

      The critical question which the survey
      does not address is, what do most Americans think our policy should be
      toward Israel and the Palestinians? Specifically, do most Americans
      favor the “special relationship,” where we unconditionally give Israel
      abundant material aid and firm diplomatic backing? This policy — which
      has been our actual policy for many years — means that we back Israel
      to the hilt no matter what it does to the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. We favor Israel over the Palestinians, and indeed, favor Israel in any conflict in which it is involved, like the Lebanon war in 2006.

      The answer to that critical question is that most Americans do not support
      the special relationship. They are much more critical of Israeli policy
      than their elected representatives are and they are far more willing to
      support a hard-nosed approach to dealing with the Jewish state than
      most policymakers would be. For example, a 2003 survey conducted by the
      University of Maryland’s Program on International Policy Attitudes
      (PIPA) found that 60 percent of Americans were willing to withhold aid
      to Israel if it resisted U.S. pressure to settle its conflict with the
      Palestinians. In fact, 73 percent of those surveyed said the United
      States should not favor either side in the conflict. Two years later, a
      survey commissioned by the Anti-Defamation League
      found that 78 percent of Americans believed that Washington should
      favor neither Israel nor the Palestinians. A July 1, 2008 poll (“World
      Public Opinion on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict,”)
      conducted by (PIPA) found that 71 percent of Americans believe that we
      should take neither side in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; only 21%
      think we should take Israel’s side.

      The Lebanon war
      in 2006 provides further evidence that the American public does not
      favor supporting Israel unconditionally. Polls at the time showed that
      U.S. opinion was sharply divided about Israel’s actions during that
      war. Two separate polls found that 46 percent of Americans held Hezbollah
      and Israel equally responsible for starting the conflict and a USA
      Today/Gallup poll found that 65 percent thought the that United States
      should take neither side in the conflict – which again is contrary to
      the idea of a special relationship.
      Nevertheless, the U.S. government
      emphatically took Israel’s side during the Lebanon war, as it has in
      every recent conflict involving Israel.

      In short, the key issue is not where the sympathies of the American people
      lie, but what they think US policy toward Israel and the Palestinians
      should be. The survey done for the Israel Project did not address this
      issue. Nevertheless, it seems clear that the American people do not
      support the special relationship the US has with Israel. Specifically,
      they do not believe that the US should favor Israel over the
      Palestinians, even if they identify more with Israel than the
      Palestinians.

      • pabelmont says:

        bob: Thanks for these very important data points. My memory is that for many years in the 1980s, about 25% of Americans resisted a Palestinian homeland (I assume this was predominantly Jews and Evangelicals) and 55% favored a Palestinian homeland. So my take has long been that the USA government has not acted as the American people seemed to desire.

        Well, why should it? Don’t governments know so much more than the people do? Aren’t they much closer to the totality of the information and data that allow a careful calculation of that elusive thing, “the American National Interest”? You bet they do. Especially they know where political money is coming from. And they also know, as we do, that the “National Interest” is not a sort of average of citizen opinion at all, but, rather, a weighted-average, where average-annual-political-contribution is that “weight”.

  2. seafoid says:

    Wallahi
    9/11 and the war on terror really boosted support for Israel.

    I guess the drug is wearing off as Ziocaine takes off in Israel.

    • hophmi says:

      “9/11 and the war on terror really boosted support for Israel. ”

      That’s simply untrue. The lowest numbers in the last 20 years other than this poll were in 2002, right after 9/11.

      • kylebisme says:

        Seafoid didn’t claim the boost was instant, and the 2006 and 2010 polls show an increase of 9 and 13% respectively over 2002, culminating in 10% higher than ever before.

      • seafoid says:

        Hoph- I know the Israeli education system is sh*t so I don’t expect you to be hot on math but the mean from 74 to 80 is around 40 and the WoT brought it up . We are probably now looking at a reversion to the mean as the effect wears off.

        • hophmi says:

          “Hoph- I know the Israeli education system is sh*t so I don’t expect you to be hot on math ”

          For the umpteenth time, I am not Israeli.

          There may have been some benefit caused by the WoT. It’s hardly clear from these numbers; it’s speculation. Strangely, there are no numbers from the entire peace process period, ’93 to ’00. My guess is that those were high-end years.

          It could also be a combination of WoT, the rise of the Christian fundamentalists, and a lot of other stuff, including successful branding of Israel as a high-tech miracle. Some of this may be wearing off, particularly in light of what happened during the election last year; thus the return to 45 from the historic highs. At the end of the day, what you should focus on is the low, virtually unchanged Palestinian numbers.

          I also think that there’s a valid theory that because this poll was taken in the middle of the Hagel hearings, where Israel was in the news in a negative light, it drove the numbers down.

      • “That’s simply untrue. The lowest numbers in the last 20 years other than this poll were in 2002, right after 9/11.”
        Do you know how to post a link or should we teach you?

    • RFS says:

      It doesn’t look like support for Israel increased by much since the “WoT”.

  3. Poll me! Poll me!

    1. I want us to favor neither Israel nor Palestine. No more foreign intervention. If we withdraw from the ME, the problem will resolve itself in less than 1 year.
    2. My sympathies are more with Palestine
    3. No lasting peace is possible between the Israelis and Palestinians. Only the disintegration of Israel will result in peace in the ME.

  4. hophmi says:

    45% reflects the norm over the past 40 years. In 2010, Israel was not much in the news, and it hit an all-time high. The drop is most likely due to Hagel and to the politicization of Israel during the 2012 election.

    What you should be much more concerned about is the fact that after all of this BDS nonsense, there has been no meaningful change in how Americans view the Palestinians. 13% sympathize with them. 4%(!) feel the US should favor them over the Israelis. In fact, the 31% number who believe the US should favor Israel is also in keeping with historical norms; most usually answer that the US should favor neither side, but, as we know, it’s those who care that get things done, and right now, eight times as many Americans care about the Israelis as they do about the Palestinians.

    The conclusion you should draw from this is that BDS is an abject failure in this country, and that most Americans are, to begin with, not receptive to its extreme message and that if anything, it has hurt the Palestinian cause in this country by identifying it as more anti-Israel than pro-Palestinian.

    • Cliff says:

      “The conclusion you should draw from this is that BDS is an abject failure in this country, and that most Americans are, to begin with, not receptive to its extreme message and that if anything, it has hurt the Palestinian cause in this country by identifying it as more anti-Israel than pro-Palestinian.”

      Support for Zionism is due to religious reasons.

      The only poll that matters in determining the NATURE of support for Israel is WHO supports Israel.

      Christian evangelicals support Israel the most.

      And Americans don’t like Arabs and Muslims.

      There is overlap on that dislike with the Palestinians – who are portrayed as primarily Muslim and primarily religiously fanatical.

      Our wars in the ME and 9/11 and blah blah don’t help either.

      Meanwhile, Jews are part of our Establishment and Jewish identity is positively reinforced into our culture with movies, political advocacy, and reporting

      Palestinian identity is viewed by Americans as part of the Arab Muslim monolith

      without considering portrayals of both identities and the institutions that produce these portrayals, any analysis is meaningless and by definition superficial

      BDS isn’t going to collapse because some racist Zionist troll on Mondoweiss thinks it’s an abject failure

      Americans are insulated and all these views on foreign policy should be taken with a grain of salt

      the Palestinians aren’t going to win a popularity contest because a popularity contest is a scam

      its a scam run by liars like you and supported by liars like the Israel lobby components – appealing to partially engaged/religious fanatics/anti-Arab Islamophobic racists/American nationalists all in the post-9/11 era

      its more interesting to note the low support for Israel @1989 and before

      when we began our Gulf Wars is when it began to rise dramatically

      and surely Zionist liars painted the Arab world as an enemy to both Jews (Zionism) and Americans. in it together against the barbarian horde!

      • Very well said Cliff..

      • seafoid says:

        “Support for Zionism is due to religious reasons” AND Media thuggery

        They don’t ban Mearsheimer from the NYT because it’s raining outside.

        • hophmi says:

          Mearsheimer isn’t banned from the Times. He may not publish as often, but he’s not banned, and the idea that pro-Palestinian voices are excluded is a myth.

        • Cliff says:

          The idea that they are excluded is a straw man actually and an intentionally dishonest talking point to hide the true impact of our sham of a free discourse.

          Palestinian voices are marginalized and their experiences are marginalized. There are exceptions and positive trends but none of that changes the overarching pattern of subtlety framing the conflict as being between Israeli security and Palestinian intransigence over ‘disputed territory.’

          Absolute rubbish and the fact that Kershner is Jewish and married to an Israeli Likudnik and Bronner has a son in the IDF as well as he himself been on a settler organization board of directors or something – etc etc.

          There is no American media organization that is mainstream and also progressive on the Palestinian question. Everyone parrots pro-Israel propaganda with some exception from guest commenters like Glen Greenwald who is highly respected but more of a outlier in the mainstream.

          No, what we have instead is Dershowitz the self-promoting loudmouth, the ADL, Elliot Felon Abrams, Pam Gellar, Daniel Pipes, Robert Spencer, Zero Dark Thirty and Argo and the usual meathead no-nothing’s like Joe Scarboroguh pontificating on how tragic it is for Israel to have to endure international criticism for simply ‘defending itself.’

        • seafoid says:

          There is no Jewish media lobby. There is no torture. There are no deaths in custody. There is no occupation. There is no land theft. There are no home demolitions. There is no career suicide. There is no fear. Everything is normal.

          Look! There’s a gay pride march in Jerusalem!

    • Au contraire, after the billions spent massaging and manipulating public opinion, smearing all Palestinian arguments, relentlessly disguising and hiding the truth from Americans, occuping the media and Congress, you can’t even push it above 50%. So less than half of Americans, even with the torrents of disinformation and propaganda shoved down their throats, agree that somehow Israel deserves handouts and special treatment/immunity from criticism or international law. Not very convincing given how we are told that America is ‘shoulder to shoulder with Israel ‘ blah blah. And btw, BDS is aimed at US companies and Israel, only a fool or a wishful thinker would find any evidence of its impact in these figures, whatever you think of it.

    • ToivoS says:

      The conclusion you should draw from this is that BDS is an abject failure in this country

      I remember the BDS campaign against S. Africa. It lasted 30 years. During most of that time it was quite frankly an abject failure. In fact at the time I was unaware that the campaign was having any effect even towards the last days. Afrikaaner hasbara was quite successful in hiding the truth. Then, suddenly, it was over. So patience good hophni, just be patient and one of these days we will all be pleasantly surprised by how quickly the apartheid system ends.

    • Citizen says:

      @ hophmi

      The poll reflects that slowly the stranglehold on anything Israel made by US mainstream media for scores of years now is being weakened by circumvention via the internet. A majority of Americans think their government should treat the Israelis and Palestinians the same. If the average American actually knew how unbalanced their government is, their sympathies will grow tremendously to favor the Palestinians, same as it would if they actually knew what Israel has done to the native people of Palestine.

    • RFS says:

      “…BDS is an abject failure in this country… it has hurt the Palestinian cause in this country by identifying it as more anti-Israel than pro-Palestinian.”

      BDS has not come up but recently. If what you said — that “it has hurt the Palestinian cause in this country” — had any basis on fact, Americans’ positive opinions on Palestinians would have declined, and this isn’t the case. Not to be rude here, but please, comment seriously and drop the concern trolling.

  5. jimmy says:

    and that is with the massive campaign by the US msm to hide israeli actions…

    along with the massive propaganda campaign to show israel in a positive light…

    I think the fact of the matter is ..that most americans just dont care what happens over there…we have a ton of problems right here

  6. Kathleen says:

    Hey when the facts start getting through the cracks most people will favor those who are being killed, having their land stolen, homes bulldozed. When the facts get through. And they are slowly but surely after decades of Israeli propaganda being filtered through the US congress and the US MSM the facts on the ground are starting to get through on the internet (Mondoweiss , If Americans Knew, Democracy Now etc), concerned citizens calling national talk shows, some in the MSM, international bodies taking stands. As Finkelstein has said over and over “stick to the facts” International Courts decision on the wall and settlements totally illegal. UN resolutions etc. Those numbers are going to keep going down if people continue to get the facts out in every way they can

  7. Perhaps it would be a good thing for Israel, if support in America erodes further.

    • Ellen says:

      James, it will be good for Israel if it has any hope of surviving long into the future as a country. Israel depends on the US largess and its government prostrating to Israel. This is not sustainable. The sooner Israel is peaceful and independent, the better the country will be.

      Problem is, too many in power (i.e. the conflict industry in Israel) deeply depend on the status quo. But it is doomed.

    • Avi_G. says:

      James Canning says:
      February 27, 2013 at 7:10 pm

      Perhaps it would be a good thing for Israel, if support in America erodes further.

      I don’t see that happening anytime soon given the Jewish column in the US.

      • hophmi says:

        “I don’t see that happening anytime soon given the Jewish column in the US.”

        The Jewish column? What is wrong with you? Do you blame everything that goes wrong in your life on other people?

        Jews are less than 2% of the country. That means the vast majority of Americans who support Israel are not Jewish. A rational thinker would conclude that there’s something more to it than “the Jewish column.”

  8. RFS says:

    “The first interesting finding is that 55% of Americans think the U.S. government should treat Israel and the Palestinians “the same” rather than favoring one over the other.”

    That’s not very remarkable, in my view. Most people, even if they are in favor of one of the two sides, will still say they want the brokers to be fair to both. That’s because fairness is felt as a virtue, as the default moral position, as something valuable in itself . If someone is charged of a heinous crime, and we feel in out guts that he’s guilty of it, we would still say that we want the courts to treat him fairly instead of favoring the prosecution’s case over that of the defense. Ask the average pro-Israel US Jew to answer that questionnaire, and he would still say, I believe, that he wants the US government to be fair, even if he believes all the hasbara hype about Israel’s superior morality, the special relationship etc. Having that in mind, I have to say that I find the share of the US people who favor a pro-Israel position (31%) exceedingly high. Not that this is surprising: average Americans bear such monstrous hostilities against Palestinians (or is it Arabs in general?), that most (or was it a plurality?) said to this same pollster, not much long ago (it was in the wake of Cast Lead, I think), that they don’t see any difference between Gazan civilians and militant fighters.

    Also, I would point out that what’s perceived as fair varies according to one’s politics. For example, what the average American believes would be a fair resolution to the conflict, wouldn’t be so considered by the average Egyptian or even the average European.

    To conclude, I don’t think, based on the reasons delineated above, that this poll is any reason for optimism regarding Americans’ position towards the Israeli colonization of Palestine. Americans are a lost case, and if Palestinians are ever to achieve self-determination, they shouldn’t wait for the Americans’ patronage.

    • Sycamores says:

      perhaps the best thing that the US could do is to relinquish their stranglehold on the Palestine/israel peace settlement. the US has proven with its vetos that they are no longer consider by anyone to be the ‘honest broker’ on the subject.
      this would be in line with what 55% of Americans in the poll want – ‘treat both the same’ – what better way then stop pretending to be the ‘honest broker’.

  9. sardelapasti says:

    Two things look significant, personally:
    - the 13% of sympathy for the Palestinians against Ishghaal (huge compared to the 4% asking that they be favored by US foreign policy)
    - the absolutely moronic question that renders the whole thing worthless about sympathies for “Arab nations”. You’d swear that the questionnaire was drawn by some reality-independent Zionist, someone like for example our very own Hopfme, with a conscious objective of obtaining as unrepresentative a survey as possible.

    In fact, I don’t imagine that either NBC or WSJ are practicing journalism or want to learn something; they just need numbers to show that Zionism is the main concern for all Americans. Even so, the donkey effect shows. Polling won’t show any upset anytime before a major, shocking event.
    RFS is absolutely right: Americans are an incurable case to be written off.

  10. Dagon says:

    Wow ,45%,that’s it?honestly it’s been years since I’ve seen or hearda pro paletinian in the usa media.I had to turn to the lousy aljazeera to see an arab face on tv.In my line of work i get to meet a lot of people who wants to know where Iam from.I get a lot of sympathy for the palestinians,more than 45%,Few nut job christian zealots,that i refuse to talk to.Others who are aware of the lobby,and the media control,and few jew haters who are aware of the situation but make me uncomfortable.sure you can put lipstic on a pig but it still stink.

  11. MRW says:

    Doesn’t surprise me. I’ve been saying it here for almost two years. Started with Netanyahu appearing before Congress and acting as if he were the President of this country, four days after “publicly spurning President Obama’s vision for ending the Israeli-Arab conflict.” May 2011.

    Arrogant and non-listening NY and DC newsmen missed it.

  12. Avi_G. says:

    There are several factors affecting such surveys, here are a few that I can think of:

    1. The depiction in the media and pop culture of Moslems and Arabs as enemies of the West with Israel as a Western outpost.

    This results in more Americans siding with Israelis than siding with Palestinians.

    2. Jewish symbols displayed in abundance in everyday American life — the Menorah at hospitals, shopping malls, hotel reception areas, offices etc.

    This creates identification with Jews as familiar and safe, whereas Moslems are foreign, threatening, unknown.

    Either take down all these religious symbols or add symbols to equally represent every religious group in the US. Jews make up a mere 2% of the population, but based on the predominant display of Jewish symbols one would think they make up 80% of the population.

    3. The prevalence of Jews in the American media and cinema.

    Not a week goes by, for example, without Jon Stewart reminding his audience almost every evening, that he’s Jewish. It’s almost as predicable as a baby’s fart. He eats, gets full and starts passing gas. That’s Jon Stewart and dozens others like him with their mention of their Jewishness.

    Consider also the prevalence of Jews in movies, with the hero often having a Jewish last name (Greenberg, Epstien, etc.). This sends the message that Jews are Americans like you and me. They’re normal people (Which they are) and in many cases they are even nicer and smarter than your next door Christian neighbor (Which they aren’t necessarily).

    Meanwhile, Moslems and Arabs are only included in movies in contexts surrounding issues like terrorism, sleeper cells, the wars in the Middle East, etc.

    And whenever the Middle East is shown in mainstream American media, it is either shown in the context of news (war) or in the context of films with images of desert, goats, camels, or masked fanatics.

    4. Despite the fact that relatively speaking the number of Jews is no greater than the number of Moslems and Arabs in the US (African-Americans, for example, make up about 13% of the population and yet their representation in pop culture and the media does not approach that of Jews), the average American is given implicit and explicit messages that Arabs and Moslems are new immigrants whereas Jews have been an intrinsic part of the American fabric for centuries. But that ignores historical facts where Moslems first came to this country as slaves on ships from Western Africa, or that Arabs from Syria and Lebanon have been living in certain states as early as the mid 1800s, certainly longer than Italian and Polish immigrants.

    But when the facts are inconvenient, then the next best thing to making them go away is to manipulate people’s perceptions.

    Many of these points go back to the media and to Hollywood. And just like Chomsky explains that consent can be manufactured, then perceptions can also be manufactured.

    So the ADL and prominent Jews in Hollywood can cry about anti-Semitism until the cows come home, but that doesn’t change their complicity in peRVerting American views and attitudes toward Arabs and Moslems.

    I think the shift will occur the day we start seeing Jews depicted in the mainstream media in a negative light. After all, there are Jewish thugs, there are Jewish murderers, there are Jewish bank robbers, there are Jewish supremacists, there are Jewish rapists, there are Jewish pedophiles and Jewish kidnappers, there are Jewish terrorists and there are Jewish bums who live on welfare.

    For the time being, however, Jews will continue to pat themselves on the back as they depict themselves as smart, wise, well-educated, honest, caring, successful, compassionate and thoughtful. But the truth is that they are just like everybody else, no more and no less.

    When both non-Jews in this country, especially Christians, and Jews finally admit these facts, then we can start having an honest conversation as mature adults (re: Phil’s comment about the Ted skit at the Oscars).

    And perhaps one day AIPAC will be weak enough to allow CAIR to send interns to Capitol Hill without accusing both CAIR and American Moslems of being terrorist sympathizers and security threats, especially since the opposite is true; AIPAC is the biggest threat to the United States right now given the extent of its penetration in American government and media, from the likes of Deniss Ross, the Neo-Cons or their DC think tank buddies from WINEP and the like.

    • ritzl says:

      Great comment! The perceptions are manufactured, and the mechanism is “built-in.” I don’t think that’s necessarily wrong, but it is unbalanced and in need of correction through counter advocacy. I think that correction is happening.

    • hophmi says:

      It’s just like Fox News:

      1. ” The depiction in the media and pop culture of Moslems and Arabs as enemies of the West with Israel as a Western outpost. ”

      First, blame the media.

      2. “US. Jews make up a mere 2% of the population, but based on the predominant display of Jewish symbols one would think they make up 80% of the population. ”

      The predominant display of Jewish symbols? Do you live in the United States, or do you live in Timbuktu? About the only prevalent Jewish symbol I can think of is the Menorah on Chanukah, and only in areas with large Jewish populations. People are not putting up Magen Davids all over the place. Ecumenical displays often include Kwanzaa candlelabras; would you say people think African-Americans are 80% of the population?

      All of this is dwarfed, completely, by the display of Christmas decorations, from Santa in the shopping malls to lights on the houses, to red and green everywhere. So, no, Avi, no one in their right mind would think Jews are 80% of the population or that Christianity is not the dominant faith in the United States.

      “3. The prevalence of Jews in the American media and cinema. ”

      If it’s not the media and it’s not the culture, it must be the conspiracy.

      Let’s begin with nonsense:

      “Not a week goes by, for example, without Jon Stewart reminding his audience almost every evening, that he’s Jewish. It’s almost as predicable as a baby’s fart. He eats, gets full and starts passing gas. That’s Jon Stewart and dozens others like him with their mention of their Jewishness. ”

      Dozens of others like him? Such as? In fact, I can’t think of the single one. Stewart does a sort of faux-Borsch-belt humor sometimes. The late night hosts with the highest ratings are David Letterman and Jay Leno. Their ratings far exceed Stewart’s. So the idea that Jon Stewart’s joking about being Jewish is responsible for support of Israel is really one of the silliest things I’ve ever heard.

      “Consider also the prevalence of Jews in movies, with the hero often having a Jewish last name (Greenberg, Epstien, etc.). This sends the message that Jews are Americans like you and me. They’re normal people (Which they are) and in many cases they are even nicer and smarter than your next door Christian neighbor (Which they aren’t necessarily).”

      Consider the fact that many Jewish actors changed their names to avoid being identified as Jewish. Consider the fact that Jews are not at all prevalent in movies; the vast majority of the heros in American movies are not Jewish, much as some of their creators might be.

      “Meanwhile, Moslems and Arabs are only included in movies in contexts surrounding issues like terrorism, sleeper cells, the wars in the Middle East, etc.”

      Not true. There are movies where Muslims and Arabs are depicted positively.

      But yes, Muslims and Arabs are often depicted as terrorists. Maybe it’s because Muslims and Arabs are disproportionately represented in the suicide bombing and terrorism communities. It just might have something to do with that. Just maybe. I’m only spitballing here.

      “4. Despite the fact that relatively speaking the number of Jews is no greater than the number of Moslems and Arabs in the US”

      A matter of some controversy, but go on…

      “(African-Americans, for example, make up about 13% of the population and yet their representation in pop culture and the media does not approach that of Jews)”

      And you base this on what? I’d say African-Americans are well-represented in pop culture. Hip-hop is mainstream. The most famous female singer in the world is Beyonce. Can you tell me who all of these Jewish artists in pop culture are? I’d love to know.

      “the average American is given implicit and explicit messages that Arabs and Moslems are new immigrants whereas Jews have been an intrinsic part of the American fabric for centuries. But that ignores historical facts where Moslems first came to this country as slaves on ships from Western Africa, or that Arabs from Syria and Lebanon have been living in certain states as early as the mid 1800s, certainly longer than Italian and Polish immigrants. ”

      New immigrants? That must be it. Americans don’t like the Palestinians because they see Muslims as new immigrants.

      “So the ADL and prominent Jews in Hollywood can cry about anti-Semitism until the cows come home, but that doesn’t change their complicity in peRVerting American views and attitudes toward Arabs and Moslems. ”

      It also doesn’t change the fact that the lion’s share of negative stereotyping in the media and in society about Muslims and Arabs likely comes from conservative media like Fox News, which is owned by a Christian guy, conservative talk radio, which is made up mostly of Christian guys, and Christian fundamentalist pastors, who are . . . you guessed it, Christian guys.

      “I think the shift will occur the day we start seeing Jews depicted in the mainstream media in a negative light. After all, there are Jewish thugs, there are Jewish murderers, there are Jewish bank robbers, there are Jewish supremacists, there are Jewish rapists, there are Jewish pedophiles and Jewish kidnappers, there are Jewish terrorists and there are Jewish bums who live on welfare. ”

      We’ve had about a year and change of a child molestation scandal in the chassidic Jewish community front and center in the NY Times. Hasn’t changed the perception of Jews much. There have been plenty of movies about Jewish gangsters, like Bugsy and Once Upon a Time in America. There have been many more about Italian gangsters, and at last check, the society did not hate Italian people.

      So there is plenty of negative depiction of Jews in the media. I suspect what you want is wall-to-wall negative depiction to reflect your own biases.

      “For the time being, however, Jews will continue to pat themselves on the back as they depict themselves as smart, wise, well-educated, honest, caring, successful, compassionate and thoughtful. But the truth is that they are just like everybody else, no more and no less. ”

      They are disproportionately represented in government. They are disproportionately represented in social justice movements. They are disproportionately represented in higher education. There’s no need for Jews to “depict themselves” as anything. American society draws its own conclusions. They view us positively because there is a lot of positive, and they reject, overwhelmingly, the antisemitic tropes of people like you who get off on trashing the Jews because they have a political disagreement with them.

      “When both non-Jews in this country, especially Christians, and Jews finally admit these facts, then we can start having an honest conversation as mature adults (re: Phil’s comment about the Ted skit at the Oscars). ”

      Don’t hold your breath, since what you want “admitted” is not fact, but your own crazy theories.

      “And perhaps one day AIPAC will be weak enough to allow CAIR to send interns to Capitol Hill without accusing both CAIR and American Moslems of being terrorist sympathizers and security threats”

      CAIR sends people to Capitol Hill to lobby like everyone else does. So do more moderate Arab groups. No one is preventing their members from picking up the phone and making their case. And like every other American, the religious freedom of Muslims is protected under the law.

      “AIPAC is the biggest threat to the United States right now”

      Isn’t it so sad for you that virtually no one outside of the pro-Palestinian community (apparently around 4% of the country) thinks that?

  13. German Lefty says:

    I just found this German online poll by Financial Times Germany from 30th November 2012:
    A state of Palestine is …
    a) long overdue. -> 47%
    b) valueless without Israel’s consent. -> 20%
    c) the right way for peace in the region. -> 23%
    d) an obstacle for the peace plan. -> 10%
    2,270 votes
    link to ftd.de
    (To see the result click on “Zum Ergebnis”.)

  14. kalithea says:

    You’d think Americans would be less supportive of Israel with Aipac trashing American heros like Hagel, the attack on the USS Liberty and the slaughter and execution of Americans by Israeli Occupation Forces.

    How much clearer can the truth regarding Zionist intentions be: “A communication to the Israeli Ambassador on 10 June, by Secretary Rusk stated, among other things: “At the time of the attack, the USS Liberty was flying the American flag and its identification was clearly indicated in large white letters and numerals on its hull. … Experience demonstrates that both the flag and the identification number of the vessel were readily visible from the air…. Accordingly, there is every reason to believe that the USS Liberty was identified, or at least her nationality determined, by Israeli aircraft approximately one hour before the attack. … The subsequent attack by the torpedo boats, substantially after the vessel was or should have been identified by Israeli military forces, manifests the same reckless disregard for human life.”

    This barbaric act perpetrated by Zionists reflects what they really think of Americans who challenge their questionable and over-reaching sovereignty.

    But unfortunately American masses have been fed the lies and propaganda by Zionist GATEKEEPERS in the mainstream media and the gatekeepers are everywhere that matters working against the truth and on behalf of Zionist interests at the expense of Americans and American interests.

    Everyone is convinced that Iraq is seriously unravelling at present in a way that hurts American interests. The Iraq war was pushed by Zionist neocons on Americans. Thousands of Americans paid with their lives and tens of thousands are disabled for life and that doesn’t begin to describe the tragic magnitude of that war not to mention the trillion-dollar cost and still Americans remain ignorant of the price they’re paying on behalf of Zionist interests, the least of which is the 3-billion plus dollars Americans dish out yearly to benefit Zionist interests and keep Palestinians locked up under occupation and oppression.

    • hophmi says:

      “You’d think Americans would be less supportive of Israel with Aipac trashing American heros like Hagel, the attack on the USS Liberty and the slaughter and execution of Americans by Israeli Occupation Forces. ”

      You’d think. Except AIPAC did not trash Hagel (they stayed out of the fight). And the USS Liberty is a old conspiracy theory from over 40 years ago that no one mainstream accepts and that has no relevance today, and there have been many, many more Americans killed by Muslims and Palestinians than by the IDF.

      Here’s a clue: Maybe Americans don’t like the Palestinian cause because their advocates do little but trash Israel and the Jews and tell lots of lies, while having almost nothing positive to say about the Palestinians themselves.

      “Everyone is convinced that Iraq is seriously unravelling at present in a way that hurts American interests. The Iraq war was pushed by Zionist neocons on Americans. ”

      Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. It was pushed by a Christian fundamentalist President and his Christian VP, who wanted Saddam Hussein’s ass for many years, and supported by a majority of the country.

  15. yourstruly says:

    the public’s support of israel

    at lowest point since intifada i?

    & on a downward slope?

    so if there’s an intifada iii?

    turnabout?