Kerry likens Boston victims to ‘Mavi Marmara’ victims

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U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry listens to a question as he speaks to the media April 21, 2013, Istanbul, Turkey (Photo: AP)
Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2013/04/20/2873349/kerry-pushes-turkey-israel-rapprochement.html#storylink=cpy

At a press conference in Istanbul yesterday, attempting to bring about rapprochment between Israel and Turkey, US Secretary of State John Kerry expressed empathy with Turkey’s loss over the murder of its citizens on board the Mavi Marmara in 2010 by comparing it to the recent bombing at the Boston Marathon.

I have deep feelings for what happens when you have violence and something happens and you lose people that are near and dear to you. It affects a community, it affects a country. We’re very sensitive to that.

The response from Israel was swift. Israel’s deputy Defense Minister Danny Danon responded by implying the Turkish victims of the Israeli attack were terrorists and that Kerry was confused.  Times of Israel reports:

“It is never helpful when a moral equivalency is made confusing terrorists with their victims,” Danon told The Times of Israel. ”As our American friends were made all too aware once again last week, the only way to deal with the evils of terrorism it to wage an unrelenting war against its perpetrators wherever they may be,” he said.

The Blaze describes the pile on:

Middle East expert Barry Rubin, Director of the Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center, tells TheBlaze, “To call Kerry’s statement incredibly ignorant, insulting to Israel, and counterproductive is an understatement. Those killed on the Mavi Marmara were terrorists, aiding a group (Hamas) like those who committed the Boston atrocity.”

“Now he labels Israel as terrorist for defending itself from terrorists. Kerry’s statement gave the Turks justification for not conciliating. Would Americans accept an apology from those who staged the Boston attack? Of course not,” Rubin added.

Israel National News calls Kerry’s words “a jarring comparison.”

The blog Israel Matzav writes: “Just when you thought you’d heard it all from the Obama administration…”

One of those Turkish citizens was also an American, young Furkan Dogan. Perhaps John Kerry read the United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) report (pdf) describing his killing as a “summary execution.”

It appears that some members of the press think we all have very short memories of that awful night. The New York Times‘ Sebnem Arsu and Jodi Rudoren:

The flotilla, which was trying to break Israel’s military blockade of Gaza, was intercepted by Israeli forces in international waters when the vessels refused orders to turn back. When Israeli commandos boarded the lead vessel, a firefight broke out — Israel says the commandos were fired on first — and nine activists were killed, eight Turks and one American of Turkish descent.

(Hat tip Mondoweiss commenter Taxi)

About Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani
Posted in Israel/Palestine | Tagged

{ 99 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. RJL says:

    Kerry is totally wet behind the ears, shoots off his mouth without thinking first. Dumbest thing to have said, especially if he thinks he can pull off restarting negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis. The Palestinians will use this as a starting point to do nothing but blast the Israelis, and the Israelis will use this stupid remark to remind him he doesn’t have the ability to act as a neutral go between. So what’s your point about Kerry?

    • shoots off his mouth without thinking first

      i seriously doubt it. he (they) may have calculated it wrong but the chance this comparison was made on the fly and not part of a prepared discourse is slim to none (imho).

      it wasn’t in response to a trick question but in response to one of the topics at hand, the rapprochment between Israel and Turkey.

      the executions were a national tragedy for turkey (as they should have been for america because of furkan dogan)and kerry, being from boston related it to his immediate experience both a bostonian and as an american. it’s not his job to represent israel, who just dug a hole for themselves by calling the people they killed, over an event they just apologized for, terrorists.

      • pabelmont says:

        If Kerry really thought it through, then he was — on purpose, “with logic aforethought” — characterizing the (portion of the) Israeli military which carried out the attack on Mavi Marmara as terrorists — or as criminals — like the people who attacked the crowd in Boston. And, of course, characterizing the passengers on Mavi Marmara as innocent bystanders. Weeeeeeel, they were in international waters at the time, and they were unarmed (I think) and bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza (I think).

      • FreddyV says:

        Awesome reading of the events Annie. I’ve been out for a few weeks and my reasoning (read: Hasbara bullshit detector) needs a little calibrating.

        So true. Kerry was appealing to the Turkish psyche and identifying the events with Boston. Danon and co would have been wise to shut up, seeing that Israel apologised only the other week for the Mavi Marmara massacre.

    • Shingo says:

      Kerry is totally wet behind the ears, shoots off his mouth without thinking first. Dumbest thing to have said

      I think that every time I read one of your comments.

      The Palestinians will use this as a starting point to do nothing but blast the Israelis

      Projection. The Israelis don’t wait, they have been doing it for 64 years.

      and the Israelis will use this stupid remark to remind him he doesn’t have the ability to act as a neutral go between

      What are you suggesting? That he’s controlled by the lobby?

    • eljay says:

      >> Kerry … shoots off his mouth without thinking first.

      Yes, shame on him for calling out the oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State” on its openly criminal and immoral actions. How dare that anti-Semite forget to “Remember the Holocaust!”™

      Poor Israel. Aggressor-victimhood is such a tough gig… :-(

      Anyway, Kerry’s comment is so feeble he may as well not have said it.

    • K Renner says:

      that’s all you do, shoot your mouth off without thinking.

    • RoHa says:

      “he doesn’t have the ability to act as a neutral go between.”

      Of course not. He’s an American politician, so he will have to do what Israel says.

    • Hostage says:

      Kerry is totally wet behind the ears, shoots off his mouth without thinking first.

      LOL! I’m sure he is much drier behind the ears than his Moldavian-Israeli counterpart. Lieberman left the Israeli foreign ministry in a state of utter disarray.

      Kerry was a long time member and Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Kerry’s father was the senior legal counsel for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and State Department Bureau of United Nations Affairs. He was also a career diplomat who took his family members along on foreign service postings in Germany and Norway.

      • Taxi says:

        Kerry, being an avid mariner, can easily understand what it is to be terrorized while boating on the high seas.

    • thetumta says:

      Maybe not. A Boston Democrat breaks ranks? Some wet underwear on this one, I suspect? Oslo is dead, as it was always a farce.

      ” if he thinks he can pull off restarting negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis”, he should probably be prepared to explain yet more atrocities on the streets of Boston and other places. You know, sooner or later, they will get it right and then what will the Zionists say? Keep dying?

      Hej! Tumta

  2. radii says:

    it’s Bush I all over again israel … Kerry is your new James Baker

    • Amar says:

      I doubt it. He will grovel and ‘clarify’ (retract) his words soon enough.

    • Shingo says:

      Kerry is your new James Baker

      We could only wish. Baker told the Israelis to go to hell. Then along with Daddy Bush, they got rid of Shamir.

      • miriam6 says:

        That James Baker, Bush Senior era was back in the days when America was in full-on triumphalist mode at having defeated the Commies.

        The White House suddenly had less use for its middle eastern guard-dog Israel.

        So, hypocritically, lack of peace was all Israel’s fault.

        It wasn’t.

        It was all in the interests of America up till the end of the Cold War to back Israel, that Israel should be encouraged to be aggressive.

        Well, poor Soviet Russia simply had bankrupted itself trying to keep pace with America’s vast conventional and nuclear armaments stock.

        Of course most of America’s nukes back in the 80′s then were conveniently stashed in our common European home.

        Nowadays, America’s influence is in decline now—-

        Fortunately it means the Middle Eastern countries can run things for themselves.

        Either way, your comment is a pleasant admission that America has been in charge all along.

        Not Israel, not the Lobby.

        AMERICA

  3. amigo says:

    Kerry just went and messed up all of Obama,s ass kissing on his trip to Israel recently.

    Good job Kerry, hopefully you got to see the “Real Tape”.

    The one untouched by Zionist hands.

  4. Mike_Konrad says:

    Kerry made a very inappropriate metaphor.

    • Hostage says:

      Kerry made a very inappropriate metaphor.

      No Defense Minister Danny Danon did. There’s no evidence that the passengers on board the humanitarian aid flotilla had ever killed or maimed anyone before they were attacked without warning in international waters.

      Even Alan Dershowitz has explained that there is “absolutely” no legal grounds to treat the suspect in the Boston bombings as “an enemy combatant” rather than an ordinary criminal. link to newsmax.com

      • Hostage says:

        P.S. Admiralty Law has always held that passengers and crew of blockade runners are not to be treated as prisoners of war and that liability is limited to seizure of the ship and its cargo, subject to a decision obtained from a prize court.

        The customary law reflected in the 1st additional protocol to the Geneva Conventions prohibits starvation as a method of warfare, e.g. declaring that food items are contraband. It also prohibits the treatment of third party offers of humanitarian assistance as if they were belligerent acts.

        The Helsinki Principles on the Law of Maritime Neutrality provides that

        Cargo constituting contraband and a ship carrying such cargo may be seized by a belligerent, brought before a prize court and condemned. Confiscation without a prize court decision is prohibited.

        The Commentary on the San Remo Manual (page 191) says:

        “In cases of unreasonable diversion, undue delay or unnecessary interference with the ships voyage, compensation should be awarded by the prize court.”

        There are no adequate bases in law for Israel to treat the passengers or crew of the Mavi Marmara as criminals or to avoid paying compensation for the damages that resulted from its wrongful acts.

    • pjdude says:

      What was inappropriate about it? It’s validity?

  5. Daniel Rich says:

    Q: US Secretary of State John Kerry expressed empathy with Turkey’s loss over the murder of its citizens…

    R: Furkan Dogan was an American citizen…, John…

  6. Mike_Konrad says:

    He made a very inappropriate and inaccurate analogy.

    • not really. people have “deep feelings for what happens when you have violence and something happens and you lose people that are near and dear to you. It affects a community, it affects a country.”

      maybe it wasn’t accurate of him to say “we’re very sensitive to that” considering our state department’s response to the execution of an american on board and unwillingness to even carry out our own investigation, but otherwise there was nothing inappropriate or inaccurate about what kerry said. in fact, it’s common sense.

    • pjdude says:

      No he didn’t. He made an apt one. I’m sorry israel being called what they are offends you but it doesn’t change that Kerry description was apt.

  7. miriam6 says:

    It certainly is an inappropriate and lame comparison.

    It is completely incorrect.

    The people in Boston weren’t looking for trouble. THEY didn’t decide to be part of any conflict.

    The folks on board the Mavi Marmara most definitely WERE looking for trouble and unfortunately for them, they got it.

    Personally I think this idea they were ” terrorists” as labelled by Israel or its supporters is pretty over the top.

    Nevertheless, they – the Mavi Marmara crew, went with the EXPRESS intention of PROVOKING Israel rather than helping Gazans.

    The fact that Israel over-reacted doesn’t change the fact that the aim of the Flotilla Mavi Marmara was ONLY to stir up trouble.

    One of the odd contradictions’ with these Palestine solidarity types is that they claim endlessly that Israel is out of control and violent.

    But then when they send one of their provocative , attention seeking , tatty little Flotillas/Flytillas in Israels’ direction – and violence results, they scream about the all too predictable Israeli over-reaction as though it COULD’NT have been predicted!

    As though it was unexpected.

    What hypocrisy.

    What stupidity.

    Another element to the Mavi Marmara fiasco was the Turkish involvement .

    I think it was a reflection of Turkeys’ growing power and influence in that region, in the wake of Iraq’s’ demotion as a power in the region and Iran’s growing power since 2003.

    They wanted a cheap way at someone else’s expense to irritate Israel, it’s former ally.

    The folks on the Mavi Marmara were merely pawns and dupes in Turkey’s aim of throwing its weight around and showing it’s Muslim credentials by it’s bogus sudden concern for the Palestinians.

    Kerry’s pathetic attempt to grovel in Turkey is reflective of America’s declining power and influence in the Middle East region rather than the power of the Israel Lobby.

    • Shingo says:

      Nevertheless, they – the Mavi Marmara crew, went with the EXPRESS intention of PROVOKING Israel rather than helping Gazans.

      What makes you hasbarats insist that they could not do both, especially seeing as Israel regards anything less than fawning adoration as a provocation?

      The fact that Israel over-reacted doesn’t change the fact that the aim of the Flotilla Mavi Marmara was ONLY to stir up trouble.

      Again false, and surely the idea of the blockade was to create trouble in Gaza for the Gazans.

      One of the odd contradictions’ with these Palestine solidarity types is that they claim endlessly that Israel is out of control and violent.

      How is it a contradiction when Moshe Dayan famously said that Israel must appear like a rabid dog?

      But then when they send one of their provocative , attention seeking , tatty little Flotillas/Flytillas in Israels’ direction – and violence results, they scream about the all too predictable Israeli over-reaction as though it COULD’NT have been predicted

      Violence doesn’t result Miriam, it is the outcome of deliberate aggression on Israel’s part. Attacking ship sin international waters is a crime and the blockade is illegal.

      What hypocrisy.

      What stupidity.

      Kerry’s pathetic attempt to grovel in Turkey is reflective of America’s declining power and influence in the Middle East region rather than the power of the Israel Lobby.

      No, it’s a frank admission that Turkey is far more important strategically to the US than Israel, which is a liability

    • David Samel says:

      Strangely, miriam, there’s a kernel of truth in your comment. There is no equivalence between the Boston and Mavi Marmara victims. The former were simply victims, like the people working in the World Trade Center or on board the planes. The latter were heroes, like the first responders who ran into the burning towers to save people. (I guess they were looking for trouble as well.) The flotilla participants were bravely risking an encounter with the Israeli military in order to bring purely non-military material to the people of Gaza, who were the victims of Israel’s shockingly cruel policy of siege and deprivation. But at least you got the part right about there being a distinction.

      • Denis says:

        Bingo, David. Brilliant.

        The closest comparison for the MM folks I can think of is the brave Jews of Warsaw who also took on an overwhelming and brutal power, with zero odds of winning . Both of these groups lost their respective battles while winning the admiration of people all over the world for generations to come.

      • Shingo says:

        The latter were heroes, like the first responders who ran into the burning towers to save people.

        Nice observation David.

        Using Miriam’s moral yardstick, those who participated in the Entebbe rescue were all looking for trouble. Same with the Jews who participated in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.

    • seafoid says:

      “Nevertheless, they – the Mavi Marmara crew, went with the EXPRESS intention of PROVOKING Israel rather than helping Gazans.”

      What happened all the medical stuff on board, Miriam? Did the bots deliver it? No, they didn’t.

      Why not? Because Gazans are Untermenschen.

      Zionism is a an incurable brain condition that destroys a person’s capacity to feel empathy.

    • K Renner says:

      Disgusting- why don’t you just say what you want to say- that those people murdered by stupid Israeli thugs hiding behind the masquerade of being “soldiers” “deserved” to die?

      I don’t think those on the Mavi Marmara were pawns, nor do I think, as you do, that their lives were wasted uselessly. The world saw the true face of the thug state that day.

    • Peter in SF says:

      Miriam, I am curious if you are basing your comments about the Gaza flotilla participants on any experiences you have had meeting any of them. I have met a number of them, and I did not come away with the impressions of them that you are relating here. But maybe you met some different ones.

    • ToivoS says:

      the Mavi Marmara crew, went with the EXPRESS intention of PROVOKING Israel

      Yes that is true. MLK most certainly went to Birmingham in the summer of 1963 to provoke a reaction and he hit a political gold mine when he provoked Bull Connor and the KKK bombers.

      Kerry’s words are very interesting. He is giving those Turk victims a certain level of recognition for what they were — non-violent resisters of state oppression. He is acknowledging their status as martyrs. If I were Israel this should be very worrisome. There reached a point when every time Bull Connor bellowed about law’n-order and outside agitator millions of civilized Americans cringed in disgust. Israel could be approaching a similar point — perhaps not repelling a majority of Americans but enough to endanger long term support for Israel.

      • Sumud says:

        If I were Israel this should be very worrisome. There reached a point when every time Bull Connor bellowed about law’n-order and outside agitator millions of civilized Americans cringed in disgust. Israel could be approaching a similar point — perhaps not repelling a majority of Americans but enough to endanger long term support for Israel.

        It is oh so easy to see that the average American’s opinion of Israel could be fairly rapidly bought into line with the rest of the world. The voting debacle at the recent DNC on removing Jerusalem from the Democratic platform struck me as a trial balloon of sorts, also. It easily demonstrated that even among the party faithful, Israel has limited support these days…

        • ToivoS says:

          That DNC vote was definitely very interesting. What was quite interesting is that those running the convention did not see it coming. Very slowly there is growing opposition to Israel everywhere in US society. For the most part it is not openly organized. But on that day, we saw a spontaneous demonstration among grass roots democrats. I have a sense of this happening but surely was surprised to see this demonstration on the convention floor. I am active in the Democratic Party and can say that in our club Israel/Palestine is absolutely never discussed. However, every once in a while a hint comes out from one person or another indicating discomfort with US policy. So far this has not led to any open discussions because the topic is just too toxic. We all know where the national party raises its funds.

    • Hostage says:

      The folks on board the Mavi Marmara most definitely WERE looking for trouble and unfortunately for them, they got it.

      Correction the passengers and crew of a vessel carrying medicines and games for children was subject to a barbarous and pirate-like attack in international waters. The Security Council had ordered the parties to the conflict to insure the continuous and uninterrupted flow of international humanitarian aid throughout Gaza (see UN SC resolution 1860). Over 170 countries have agreed that offers of humanitarian relief shall not be regarded as interference in the armed conflict or as unfriendly acts. See for example Article 70 of the 1st Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions (1977).

      The idea that you could board a neutral vessel 60 miles from the declared limits of the blockade zone and then use deadly force against the passengers is simply a ludicrous proposition. That sort of behavior was already prohibited under the customary laws of the 19th century. For example:

      There are three absolute requirements for a recognized blockade. First reasonable notice must be given, this Germany has done. Second the blockade must be effective. And third a neutral ship can be seized only upon attempting an actual breach of the blockade. The vital point is that the blockade must be uninterrupted if it be raised temporarily for any cause new diplomatic notice must be given. And it must be maintained by a force sufficient really to prevent access to the blockaded coast.

      The penalty provided for the captured blockade runner is seizure. But the law, as interpreted even by German authorities, is explicit upon the point that no lives must be destroyed. Even merchant ships belonging to an enemy may be sunk only in cases of pressing necessity and before such destruction the persons on board must be transferred to a place of safety. The same rules apply but of course with greater emphasis to neutral vessels.

      See James William White, “A Text-book of the War for Americans”, J. C. Winston, 1915, page 396

    • Eva Smagacz says:

      “Nevertheless, they – the Mavi Marmara crew, went with the EXPRESS intention of PROVOKING Israel rather than helping Gazans.”

      And to think that my grandparents, who were deeply involved in resistance work in Warsaw that organised food smuggling into Warsaw ghetto did it all to provoke Germans! (Using Miriam’s logic).

      Miriam, may I remind you that Zionists keep Gaza on a diet of under 1000 calorie a day, and that half of Gaza population is children?

    • Talkback says:

      miriam6 says: “The folks … most definitely WERE looking for trouble and unfortunately for them, they got it.”

      Like the folks who were murdered while trying to help Jews under siege, occupation or worse not long ago, right?

  8. Kerry is not the brightest of lightbulbs, nor well-suited for diplomacy. The two incidents are connected only in the sense of each country losing countrymen to what appears to the suffering country as senseless violence. When you’re trying to repair relations between Turkey and Israel, the source of the Mavi Marmara violence, damaged by that violence, to equate the two is a direct insult to Israel. Wholly apart from whether Israel is deserving of chastisement for Mavi Marmara, this occasion was decidedly not the place for it. Kerry could well become the Anti-Diplomat, with bumbles like this. I’m reminded of that plaster of Paris foot with a hole shot in it given to Interior Secretary James Watt by Ronald Reagan for blocking a Beach Boys concert on the Mall because the fans attracted were “the wrong element.” And Gerald Ford asserting that there was no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe, not on my watch. I’m trying to avoid thinking about Sarah Palin and her view of the Russia from her porch (ignorance vs muddled thinking).

    • seafoid says:

      Insult to Israel my ass.
      Erdogan is playing hardball with Israel. He got Netanyahu to apologise and now he wants more.
      Israel doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Mainly because it shot itself in both feet. Ha ha.

      • ivri says:

        Indeed, he is playing hard ball but it is possible that he is reaching limits there. He milked the anti-Israel posture as much as he could but his dream to become the patron of the Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims vs. Israel cannot go too far. He is essentially an American client, has a huge project on his plate with the Kurds, which is explosive and can go wrong in many ways and also faces a troubling uncertainty in Syria. Chances are that his fantasies for “regional grandeur” will be checked, even if it will take some time, by the harsh realities of the region.

        • seafoid says:

          He is no Nasser. He plays the system. However he knows Israel’s weaknesses and he exploits them.

        • bilal a says:

          Nation states are only actors if one believes underlying multinational corporate webs have no influence on internal politics and the rise of national leaders. But this could hardly explain the United States transfer of trillions to private hands from taxpayers all in the name of fictious WMDs.

          The public dispute between israel and Turkey makes good theatre but their security apparatus (s) are still joined and cooperating in funnelling Jihadis into Syria.

          Bp-Shell consortia economics may provide a better explanation .

        • ivri says:

          Sure, he plays the system and is no amateur, but that only means that Israel has got yet another “fight” on its (busy) schedule – need to be play by its own conditions and rules. As always the “successes” of the challenger come first (as, prominently, with Nasser, Arafat, Hezbollah and even Iran) and it is only later when things begin to cut the bones. That is, in short, the “story” called Israel

        • gamal says:

          tomorrow belongs to you?

        • seafoid says:

          The Sunni vs Shia struggle in the cockpit that is now Syria has the potential to blow Israel’s complacency out of the water.

        • ivri says:

          Don`t get me wrong- I am not playing silly triumphalism here. Israel objective position has always made the odds stacked against it. What I am trying to point out that Israel has made it abundantly clear that it will nevertheless fight back and history shows that it was able to extract real prices from those who went after it. In all cases until now it began rosy for the assailers but changed tack later

        • ivri says:

          “Israel`s complacency”
          Israel can never afford the luxury of being complacent. As for the Sunni-Shia struggle and the Syria upheaval it is not clear at all that it makes things worse for Israel

        • seafoid says:

          Israel is über complacent. Nukes and Uncle Sam are the insurance.
          If the Middle East goes up in flames Israel will get pulled in . And the Jihadis will be delighted. Afghanistan brought to Hodhasharon.

          The IDF hasn’t fought a real war lasting more than 2 weeks for a very long time .

        • Citizen says:

          I wrote here recently that Israel has not fought a war for over 33 days in the last 40 years. It was on the thread about Friends Of The IDF, who get tax deductions for donating $ to Israel soldiers, while 186,000 US vets are sinking in misery without much help from their government.

        • miriam6 says:

          Ha!

          And when did AMERICA last fight a REAL war?

          Maybe Vietnam.

          Really probably only since ww2 – - a VERY long time ago.

          Everything since then has been mere homicidal bullying with all of Uncle Sam’s state -of —the- art militarised technology at it’s disposal.

          During the 1990/91 Gulf War – Iraqi troops would be attacked at night by Yankee soldiers using night vision.

          The poor Iraqi conscript soldiers , by contrast with the well equipped Yankee soldiers, couldn’t even SEE what or who was attacking them.

          Then the ” Turkey Shoot ” at the very end – even though Iraq had by that time been forced to sue for peace.

          Interestingly Timothy McVeigh “fought” as a US soldier in that war.

          He was disturbed by the one-sided-nature of the “war”.

          He realised it was really a war on the Iraqi people and state.

          Anyway, his training as a US soldier coupled with his political ideas , his disturbed – post- Gulf War- state-of-mind and outrage at the FBI’s cruel massacre of those in the Waco Compound, led him to become an expert terrorist killer himself.

          Then the Boston Bombings – I tended to think, because of the timing and circumstances it would turn out to be another Tim McVeigh type terrorist action.

          Funnily enough, for decades now, Russia has been trying to persuade the Americans , that the Chechen conflict has not been as simple as the Americans presented it all.

          ” Brave freedom fighting Chechens versus Evil Russia.”

          That was how the American government, people and media viewed the Chechen question.

          Apparently, even AFTER the notorious Beslan school massacre of innocents.

          Now, of course America is being forced to look at things differently.

          Yes, America really HAS been Uber Complacent.

          link to rt.com

    • Shingo says:

      When you’re trying to repair relations between Turkey and Israel, the source of the Mavi Marmara violence, damaged by that violence, to equate the two is a direct insult to Israel.

      Love the Hasbara playbook here. It’s OK to murder Turks, but it’s unacceptable to insult to Israel.

      I’m trying to avoid thinking about Sarah Palin and her view of the Russia from her porch

      You forgot to mention the Israeli flag on lapel and on her desk.

    • peterfeld says:

      The last thing on earth the Palestinians need is more negotiations with Israel – Netanyahu’s govt in particular. Kerry’s brilliance is dropping “Kinsley gaffes” or inconvenient truths (this Mavi Marmara comment plus the “expiration date” he placed on the two-state “solution”) that will move things past the negotiation stage. Let’s hope there will never be another negotiation session between Israel and the PA.

    • piotr says:

      Insult to Israel? Israel is a rhinoceros that pretends to have thin skin. Insult?

      I tried to find examples of stories on navies boarding ships in international waters and meeting violent opposition. As a rule, firearms are not used. A series of incidents concerns Chinese fishing vessels intercepted by Koreans. It seems like kung-fu versus takwendo. The bottom line is that whatever Koreans think about justice of their cause, they do not want to insult the Chinese.

      Unlike Israelis who insulted Turkey with abandon. And they are so conceited that it is hard to explain basic facts to them.

      • Citizen says:

        The Israeli conceit is that they were merely trying to stop the Gaza boat from breaking their blockade of the enemy they were at defensive war with (Gaza), and so they sent down as a boarding party on the enemy fellow-travelers, who tried to murder them as they came down as boarding party defenders. In short, what a surprise: it was purely self-defense on the part of Israel. I read versions of that in the Jewish/Israeli papers today.

  9. seafoid says:

    ““It is never helpful when a moral equivalency is made confusing terrorists with their victims,” Danon told The Times of Israel. ”As our American friends were made all too aware once again last week, the only way to deal with the evils of terrorism it to wage an unrelenting war against its perpetrators wherever they may be,” he said.”

    Turkey’s economy is 3 times bigger than Israel’s

    link to youtube.com

    And the bots are vicious. Obnoxious doesn’t go anywhere near it. The end will come when they spin this Hebrew logic after an American tragedy.

    • Shingo says:

      And the bots are vicious. Obnoxious doesn’t go anywhere near it. The end will come when they spin this Hebrew logic after an American tragedy.

      A Netenyahu aid has already expressed that the attack will benefit Israel.

      link to haaretz.com

      Leave it to Iseasl to always look on the bright side of a terror attack against the US.

      • A Netenyahu aid has already expressed that the attack will benefit Israel.

        yep, and if you open the ‘blaze’ link in the article, which was posted by yahoo, they lead with that. framing the story around it.

        Israelis have been commenting all week about how the Boston Marathon bombing was a bonding moment for Americans and Israelis, who have had too much experience with terrorist attacks in their major cities.

        That idea apparently doesn’t resonate with Secretary of State John Kerry who at a press conference over the weekend compared families mourning those killed in Boston last Monday with the families of pro-Palestinian Turkish activists killed by the Israeli Defense Forces aboard the Mavi Marmara, a boat involved in the 2010 Gaza flotilla.

        those israelis sure do know how to make lemonade out of lemons.

  10. Bumblebye says:

    Am I hearing right on this new ‘foiled plot’ story out of Canada? Al Qaeda in IraN? They’re havin us on!

    My immediate thought is no way, this is a ‘plot’ set up by secret services of a ‘third’ country, who undoubtedly also revealed it to the authorities! Gotta get & keep ‘em onside for an attack on Iran!

  11. And when he goes to Israel hes going to use the Mavi Marmara comparsion too:

    ‘In Boston we faced the same terror that Israel faced on Mavi Marmara’.

  12. RJL says:

    Quick reply, Annie. Good debate afterwards from other comments, too. If he meant it after deliberate thought, he still failed, as his comment will not help foster any meaningful negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis, as explained before. Still think he’s a babe in the woods, diplomatically. If he worked for the UN, espec. the unaligned group, his remark would elicit a yawn. From the state dept., he will get a warning at best, a caustic put down at worst.

    • Shingo says:

      as his comment will not help foster any meaningful negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis, as explained before.

      Oh dear, how will he ever live with himself given how determined he and Obama are to make that happen. NOT.

      Obama waved the white flag and he’s given up on the peace process.

      If he worked for the UN, espec. the unaligned group, his remark would elicit a yawn

      “unaligned “”meaning those not bribed and corrupted by powerful pro Israeli interests.

    • ToivoS says:

      rjl says: his comment will not help foster any meaningful negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis

      I suspect Kerry’s comment was likely motivated by Israel’s immediate rejection for his plan to restart the IP negotiations. This happened in the last two weeks. Kerry is seriously pissed. He is sending a signal to Netanyahu: If you think you can continue to humiliate the US government without impunity this is what I can do. Of course the Israelis believe they can do this because they control the house and senate. But they do not control the State Department. Kerry is using the one tool he has to communicate with the Israelis.

      It is Netanyahu that opposes meaningful negotiations, Kerry is trying to undermine that opposition. Kerry is foolish to even try, IMHO, because eventually Israel will go back to the US Congress with their Lobby allies, and reinforce discipline.

    • K Renner says:

      “meaningful negotiations” imply that the Israelis and their stooges are willing to make concessions of any sort.

      Telling the Palestinians “you don’t get any preconditional demands but we get to force all our demands onto you and you can’t complain” is nothing more than the usual Israeli stalling and bluster.

  13. Henry Norr says:

    > One of those Turkish citizens was also an American, young Furkan Dogan.

    Actually, Furman Dog an was not a Turkish citizen – he was born in the USA, and according to his dad, this is the only country he was a citizen of.

    (Posted from a sitting in SF against the Keystone XL pipeline.)

    • henry the United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) report claims he was a dual citizen. alex (i linked to his report above) cited directly from the report: link to mondoweiss.net

      At the meeting with Pettit, Dogan brought up the United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) report (pdf) on the flotilla raid which said that Furkan Dogan was killed in a “summary execution.” The report states:

      Furkan Doğan, a 19-year-old with dual Turkish and United States citizenship, was on the central area of the top deck filming with a small video camera when he was first hit with live fire. It appears that he was lying on the deck in a conscious, or semi-conscious, state for some time. In total Furkan received five bullet wounds, to the face, head, back thorax, left leg and foot. All of the entry wounds were on the back of his body, except for the face wound which entered to the right of his nose. According to forensic analysis, tattooing around the wound in his face indicates that the shot was delivered at point blank range.

      other than that, i have not personally verified it henry. i trust his father knows tho. it’s easy to imagine the turks consider him one of their own.

      • ANOTHER EXCERPT FROM THE SAME LENGTHY MONDOWEISS ARTICLE (BY ALEX KANE):

        . . . In addition to documents relating to Furkan Dogan’s death, the CCR published additional documents related to the electronic equipment taken from American passengers on the flotilla. While U.S. officials repeatedly inquired about the status of the electronic property and expressed frustration at the Israeli response, there was no high-level pressure to ensure that it was returned.

        The electronic property held by Israel included the video camera Furkan Dogan was holding on the ship, which may contain evidence as to what transpired on the Mavi Marmara. A CCR analysis concludes: “As of February 2013, property belonging to the U.S. passengers aboard the 2010 Gaza flotilla remains missing, presumably within Israeli custody.”

        ● P.S. Furkan Doğan’s Wikipedia page gives his nationality as “American”.

      • Henry Norr says:

        Interesting that the UN HRC report says Furkan had dual citizenship.

        On the other hand, his father, Professor Ahmet Dogan, has said in several interviews that Furkan did not have Turkish citizenship. Here’s one of them: “Furkan was a U.S. citizen. He did not have Turkish citizenship. He could have taken Turkish citizenship at any time after he turned 18 but he had not done so.”

  14. Well good for Kerry. An accurate and timely statement.

    I hope that he does not resile.

  15. RE: “It is never helpful when a moral equivalency is made confusing terrorists with their victims,” Danon told The Times of Israel.

    MY COMMENT: Israel is a master of using “moral equivalency” when it suits its purposes! ! !
    Kerry will learn to keep to the script approved by AIPAC and Israel. He needs to be like a Ken doll with that pull cord on its back.

    • P.S. “Kerry will learn to keep to the script approved by AIPAC and Israel. He needs to be like a Ken doll with that pull cord on its back.” – me (from above)

      EXCITING NEWS: They have done away with the pull cord! ! !
      Sweet Talkin’ Ken John Kerry (in 90 seconds) at Toy Fair 2011 [VIDEO, 01:30] – link to youtube.com

  16. Sumud says:

    The flotilla, which was trying to break Israel’s military blockade of Gaza, was intercepted by Israeli forces in international waters when the vessels refused orders to turn back.

    The New York Times’ Sebnem Arsu and Jodi Rudoren should be fired for this little piece of historical revisionism.

    The Free Gaza Flotilla were in international waters and were heading AWAY from Gaza when the attack occurred, not towards. Israel pursued them and attacked them.

    • The Free Gaza Flotilla were in international waters and were heading AWAY from Gaza when the attack occurred, not towards. Israel pursued them and attacked them.

      I wish more people knew that.

      To those of us who followed the interception in real time, both from the intermittent video feed from the MV Mari Marmara, and from its tracking transponder on Live Ships Maps, it was clear that the MVMM and associated vessels were putting distance between themselves and the coasts of Israel, Gaza and Egypt (a course of about 265 degrees true), and were well within international waters, at the time they were illegally attacked. None had ever come close to any coastal waters or legitimate exclusionary area.

      All the Israelis had to do to the Mavi Marmara to stop it was to foul its props or rudders, which I could have told them how to do. The vessel would have then drifted, until towed back to Turkey by a tug. The attack wasn’t just illegal. It was stupid. Everyone involved in its planning should have been cashiered out of the service within days.

  17. dbroncos says:

    “Those killed on the Mavi Marmara were terrorists, aiding a group (Hamas) like those who committed the Boston atrocity.”

    “As our American friends were made all too aware once again last week…”

    Zionists continue to play the 9/11 card again and again. The gift that keeps on giving.

    • K Renner says:

      It’s funny because one of the main ways that actual terrorist groups- AQ as opposed to Hamas or Hezbollah- recruit successfully is through talking about the oppression and murder of Palestinians by Israelis backed by America.

  18. Blank State says:

    Check out the L.A. Times article, today, (the 22nd), on Hagel’s impending visit to
    the Jewish State. Long article, not a single mention of the Palestinians. Whole article devoted to how Hagel’s visit is to reinforce our “oneness” with Israel over the Iranian “nuclear threat”. Hagel, unfortunately, is gonna be a HUGE disappointment to all his loyal fans here at Mondo. He is as spineless,and as sold-out, as Obama is.

  19. John Douglas says:

    Into John Kerry’s mouth went his foot and out of his mouth,by some miracle, came the truth. Too bad he’ll be forced to to choke on it.

  20. kalithea says:

    In a more perfect world, Obama would have appointed John Kerry Secy of Defense and Hagel, Secy of State; but Obama’s too shallow, stupid and weak to recognize the sublime irony in doing so.

    In this State position, Kerry is but a whisper of his former self:

    link to youtube.com

    Back then Kerry roared with the truth, because he felt the horror, but, I love to wonder what he would do confronted with the clamor of war with Iran as Secy of Defense. I wonder if he would remember his own experience of war and those profound words and avoid war with a vengeance. I would put that test before him!

    We must end this senseless cycle of violence; grieve for ALL the dead and honor their victims too with a moment of silence and then indignation against the savagery of war, because not doing so is to be less than human OURSELVES! The more advanced the war machine becomes the more ignoble and cowardly it is. Let’s make war on WAR!!! And in the words of the wise; for God’s sake GIVE PEACE A CHANCE already DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  21. Basilio says:

    What Kerry said wasn’t smart politically at all, but there was some truth to what he said except the passengers had political motives. None-the-less, the Israelis attacked them first and in international waters, and Israel shot an unarmed 18 year old several times at close range. That’s definitely criminal. Israel’s behavior was criminal.

  22. Taxi says:

    Kerry knew EXACTLY what he was saying and it’s proof that Obama’s reconciliation tour of israel was just a freaking shallow PR show.

    There’s plenty of animosity still between israel and Obama’s White House. It was there a month ago. It’s STILL there right now. America, losing it’s hegemony in the middle east, is currently using the mad dog israel to keep the mideast in a chaotic flux while it figures out how to keep the Chinese and Russians out of the middle east. In case you haven’t noticed, America is rapidly losing the Syrian battle to the Russians:
    1- Bashar is sternly still in power (after billions spent on dethroning him)
    2- A Russian fleet of five warships will any day now be docked in Syrian waters
    3- The building of a permanent Russian naval base in Syria is already underway.
    link to timesofisrael.com
    Why else do you think the White House rushed to complete the 10 billion dollar deal to Saudi Arabia/UAE/israel if not to announce it at the heals of Russia’s mideast maneuvers?

    So yes, Obama will be giving israel a portion of the $10 billion in arms soon AND at the same time he’s sending them israeli recipients of our ‘gifts’ a message: ‘Me and my boy Kerry are gonna say what we need to say to our OTHER mideast and moslim allies. No, you will NOT take my money then gag me while I’m drowning in the mediterranean.’

    Meanwhile, Hagel has been instructed to play nice in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, thus confusing the zionists even more: ‘does America still REALLY love us?’. They’re still asking themselves this question, been asking it since Obama’s first term.

    It looks like Obama’s got a handful of thorns (not swords, unfortunately) and he will use them as American needs demand, against the zionist love-bubble.

    • Shingo says:

      I second that Annie.

      Taxi is a sock star!

      The US is losing big time with the gamble in Syria, and so has the Arab League, so the US is losing on two fronts.

      Moon of Alabama has been following this closely, and documenting the collapse of the so called rebels. The latest installment shows that the cheer leaders for the rebels in the West are losing interest.

      “The Free Syrian Army spoke of “tactical withdrawal” and, as usual in its forced retreats, alleged that the Syrian Army committed a “massacre”. Translation: “The Syrian army beat the shit out of us.””
      link to moonofalabama.org

      • Moon of Alabama has been following this closely

        yes i know, i read b/moa every day.

        • Sumud says:

          Didn’t catch the details but heard just now on ABC (Australia) Radio National that an Israeli military type has accused Assad of using chemical weapons.

          At a glance:

          link to latimes.com

          Sounds like Israel is showing it’s hand – and it’s a bit desperate.

        • that accusation went over like a lead brick last month when the victims turned out to be syrian soldiers, but hasbarists rely on short attention spans so now they are reviving the accusations. it won’t work.

          link to moonofalabama.org

          In the “famous incident of March 19″ there were no chemical weapons but chlorine that, according to a Reuters reporter, was used against a government held barrier. Several Syrian army soldiers died. The attack came after insurgents had captured a factory east of Aleppo that produced chlorine for disinfecting drinking water.

          So lets call the Israeli claim what it is: Factless propaganda.

          i recommend all the links.

    • kalithea says:

      “America, losing it’s hegemony in the middle east, is currently using the mad dog israel to keep the mideast in a chaotic flux while it figures out how to keep the Chinese and Russians out of the middle east. In case you haven’t noticed, America is rapidly losing the Syrian battle to the Russians…”

      The Russians aren’t just in Syria but Russian warships are presently on a little visit to a Southern port in Iran where Russian commanders are meeting with their Iranian counterparts. Notice how the mainstream is totally avoiding this event.

      link to presstv.ir

      So Russia is definitely demonstrating that it means to protect its own interests in the area.

      Speaking of Israaaaael, the U.S.’s mad, really maaaad dog, you won’t believe the latest crock of bull Israelis have cooked up to get the U.S. to escalate or expand the proxy by civil war invasion of Syria.

      “”To the best of our understanding, there was use of lethal chemical weapons. Which chemical weapons? Probably sarin,” Brun said in the most definitive Israeli statement on the issue to date.”

      Israelis sure are desperate to trigger full blown war in Syria, Iran and bring on WWIII! They’ll DO and say anything to drag everyone into it! There was something too “homemade” about that chemical attack a few months ago. I wonder if Israel is working with the Syrian rebels, like they trained the PKK and worked with Jundallah and MEK in Iran to assassinate scientists and commit other acts of sabotage and terrorism inside Iran?

      The Russians have already made a connection between Syrian rebels and the Boston bombings, since all belong to salafist radical groups connected to Al-Qaeda. They all carry that black flag with white writing on it, and there are Chechens actually fighting with the rebels in Syria.

      Now that there are Chechens fighting with the opposition side and given the tragedy in Boston, how can the U.S. justify providing more support to that side? Hence the reason Israel cooked up this story to move the red line the U.S. stated would be a legitimate casus belli against the Assad regime.

      Israel wants WAR by any means!

      • Hostage says:

        you won’t believe the latest crock of bull Israelis have cooked up to get the U.S. to escalate or expand the proxy by civil war invasion of Syria.

        You got that part right:

        U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had not been able to confirm to him on Tuesday that the Syrian regime had used chemical weapons against rebels.

        “I think it is fair to say (the prime minister) was not in a position to confirm that in the conversation,” Kerry said, explaining that he had telephoned Netanyahu following reports of their use.

        link to timesofisrael.com

  23. bilal a says:

    Historically the Chechen Mafia / Chechen Terrorism was associated with a now deceased russian oligarch who had close ties to Israel. But it now turns out that the Boston bombing suspects had an association with a triple homicide in Waltham MA where an Israeli citizen died. This almost certainly means that both the FBI and Israeli intelligence were monitoring the suspects, for possible ties to terrorism and.or criminal narcotic trafficking. (Contrary to the FBI’s declaration of no foreign ties despite the sophisticated electronic trigger mechanism of the bombs).

    In any case, we have little independent information on the forensics so far. See:

    AMERICAN BESLAN 20 Clues to the Foreign Connection of the Boston Bombings

    link to cartelism.com

    Kerry was signaling that he understood who was behind the Boston bombings ?

  24. talknic says:

    WOW!! Only Americans can feel sadness at the loss of their kinfolk! AMAZING!!

    The people making these accusations are completely insane! Israel is about to pay compensation.

  25. seafoid says:

    Had to laugh at the description of Arch bot Barry Rubin as Middle East expert. Like calliing Ben Dover a leading feminist .

  26. thetumta says:

    Officer, with a story. Just like the Kennedy’s, the McCain’s and the Bushes and all the other Frat boys(Obama) and the big Central Banks they front for? You and yours get to pay for it. See you on the other side of poverty.
    Hej!

  27. bilal a says:

    The Boston bombing suspect lived in a ‘russian’ neighborhood and is now alleged to have sequentially cut the throat of three of his frieinds, one of whom was Israeli. From the the Jewish Daily Forward :

    Police Probe 9/11 Anniversary Link in Jewish Murders Tied to Boston Bomber

    http://forward.com/articles/175285/police-probe—anniversary-link-in-jewish-murde/#ixzz2RMwJoLM9

    Apparently, the Israeli security services , along with the FBI, were monitoring the suspect for his possible involvement in the murder of an Israeli citizen.

  28. Citizen says:

    As an aside re the Boston Bombings, A NJ Muslim leader has come out condemning the bombings: link to triboro.patch.com

    Re those who always tell us that the American Muslim does not speak up and condemn terrorism.

  29. Citizen says:

    Falk puts the Boston Bombings in the factual macro perspective: Blowback from US foreign policy in the Middle East ever since PNAC got the dummy POTUS it needed and 9/11–ultimate orchestrator comes from Tel Aviv with direct line to AIPAC:

    link to foreignpolicyjournal.com

    PS: If you google for Falk’s essay generally in FP, you will find just tons of essays, reports on his essay, all painting Falk as a moron and jew-hater. Not many defending him, his POV. Americans never even got the public, watered-down version of the original 9/11 Commission Report respecting motive of those terrorists, so they surely won’t be reading Falk’s essay. That’s what troubled Hart the most in his Last Post after 30 years of waging the ideas war against Zionist propaganda that has been the daily diet of US main media product and Congress’s, since at least 1967.