A British Jew warns US Jewish orgs to heed rapidly-shifting world opinion

Israel/Palestine
on 0 Comments
Sheldon Adelson wearing Romney button in Hebrew, at King David Hotel Jerusalem, 2012

Sheldon Adelson wearing Romney button in Hebrew, at King David Hotel Jerusalem, 2012

We received the note below from a British Jew. I then had a conversation on the phone with him and he said he felt the urgent responsibility to communicate the world’s opinion of Israel to American Jews before public opinion in the U.S. shifts dramatically, led by the BDS movement. I’m honoring his wish to remain anonymous.

How do you describe the feeling that your life has been a lie? I think that the reason Jews are so reluctant to acknowledge what is clearly in front of them, is that shifting from ‘Israel is never wrong’ to ‘we have created a monster’ is such a terrifying realisation, self delusion is the easier path.

Please hold my hand. I need you to talk me ‘down from the ledge’ because as I finally see the horror in front of us, I am petrified. I’m reaching out because I don’t know what to do and I hope that by explaining to you, how scary shifting your position on Israel is, I can help us establish a process for other Jews. I need help.

Like Alcoholics Anonymous we need a place where Jews can safely process the ramifications of Israel. This is not a well written article, I’ve edited it many times, but please identify the confused structure, panic and paranoia as the experience all Jews go through when we realise what is in front of us.

I am sure there is a clever word for people like me (a play on birthright, birthrefusal?) who were raised pro-Israel and now see that the only logical position, any sane person can take is that the USA was complicit in Israeli crimes against humanity. How can any normal person not be pro-Palestinian? How can any American not be outraged at what they funded, supported and received hatred for?

I live in London in the UK, my father is Israeli and I was raised to support Israel. Pure hasbara. The atmosphere in Europe towards Israel was bad but is now toxic. If the USA shared the European view, the Jews would be deported out of Israel. Europe used to hate Jews because of anti-semitism, now they have a reason to hate us.

No sane person can support Israel. Any sane person can form a conclusion that the organized American Jewish community, that I admire and love so much, has blinded Americans, given tax money to Israel, and put a bullseye on their back.

My concern is not a reduction in support for Israel, but a vitriolic backlash from the American people, towards Israel, the Jews, the Adelsons of this world, AIPAC, etc. Support for Israel won’t go from 51% to 49%, it will fall off a cliff, with massive implications.

While we sit and dither, the BDS and internet movements have hit a nerve. Students and academics are the only people ‘the lobby’ can’t buy or intimidate. Telling young people no, only makes them more determined. No open debate can support Israel. This is an albatross and will haunt us forever. President Obama has set up Israel perfectly and even peace now won’t suppress future criticisms and revisions. Israel is a stain on America’s history.

While Jews communicate Israel in nuance, the public will say; we paid $100 billion for what? We vetoed war crimes for what? No way. Nothing is off limits. Nazi-esque reparations will be called for, investigations, sanctions, the truth is, I’m very scared.

The EU has already announced sanctions against the settlements. Either Israel agrees to peace now, right now, today, or world condemnation will follow. The message should be it’s already too late.

I apologise for what seems like a rambling, paranoid, overly personal article, but as I said, shifting positions on Israel is so hard and scary, there needs to be a bridge. Create the safe place today that says; Israel is moments away from International condemnation, an irreversible decline in its standing with the American public and pariah status, for Israel, Israelis and Jews.

You can’t legally argue every Israeli position. Human rights trumps emotional attachment. Israel screwed America is a better argument than Israel is sort of a democracy. Israel waged wars, but lost the big battles. American Jews, this is wrong, you will not win in the court of public opinion. Israel will lose, try to salvage something.

The urgency with which peace needs to happen cannot be over stressed. BDS is here. The truth is here.

I then had a second conversation with him on the phone. A London professional, he said he had opened his eyes on these issues when he saw that Avigdor Lieberman was reaching out to Russia, evidently for protection at the United Nations if Israel loses the U.S., and thought, Game over. American Jewish organizations are so completely disconnected from the world’s opinion of Israel they do not see the next phase of the conflict, which is upon us, right now. BDS has educated the next generation, and Palestinians will be going to the U.N. to seek rights, and then– “the light will be shined on the laundry.”

Stories will get out that no one can defend: Wait, a Jew and a non-Jew can’t get married in Israel? Wait, they’re building roads that Palestinians can’t drive on?

I have never been more panicked, he said. Europe is gone, the U.S. is reaching a tipping point, and he fears a “toxic” reaction in public opinion in the U.S. And Obama will not lift a finger, because Israel embarrassed him and when he gave Israel a last chance to “sweep things under the rug,” with a two-state solution, the three numbskulls, Lieberman, Bennett and Netanyahu, took a sledgehammer to it.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

No Responses Yet

  1. lysias
    March 30, 2014, 3:59 pm

    The moment is fast approaching when Israeli Jews, if they do not accept a South Africa-type deal, will be faced with the fate of the pieds noirs European settlers in French Algeria. There is very little time left.

    • Ecru
      March 30, 2014, 4:04 pm

      But there’s a problem there – Israeli Jews (at least in Europe) are becoming so unpopular, and Europe itself so concerned with immigration, that those who had links here may well be told they’re not welcome back.

      • braciole
        March 30, 2014, 9:05 pm

        If they remain Israeli Jews then they will become very unpopular but as European Jews far less so. For instance Spain and Portugal have just announced that they will fast-track naturalization for Sephardic Jews. Most other European countries do the same for Ashkenazi Jews. It is Israel that is the problem for Jews in Europe, and if Israel is perceived to have involved the United States in an unpopular war in the Middle East, then it’ll become a problem in the United States as well.

      • Ecru
        March 31, 2014, 10:14 am

        @ Braciole

        Yes which is why I stated ISRAELI Jews. And that fast tracking in Spain btw – not popular with a lot of people I’ve been speaking to here. Could also possibly run afoul of European law against discrimination (why only the Jews why not Muslims too?).

      • Krauss
        March 30, 2014, 9:12 pm

        But there’s a problem there – Israeli Jews (at least in Europe) are becoming so unpopular, and Europe itself so concerned with immigration, that those who had links here may well be told they’re not welcome back.

        I have plenty of relatives in Europe and I don’t think anyone who made this comment either lives in Europe or is indeed a Jew; I’m guessing you are neither.

        Europe can’t even deport its African migrants, who are about as popular as they are in Israel(and that is not a comment on African migrants, but a de facto statement), so how can they deport integrated Jews, many of whom have reached the highest echelons?

        Furthermore, even if they had the capability, I’m laughing at this notion. This sounds more like your wish than a realistic scenario.

        “Anti-Semitism in Europe” is totally overhyped. Most of the real anti-Semitism has come from muslim immigrants; this isn’t a popular truth but it is truth. Just look in places like Sweden or, indeed, in London.

        Of course, since Zionism=Judaism according to the machers these days, we are led to believe in a massive 1930s-style uprising in anti-Semitism, but it is bunk. Opposition to Zionism, yes, but not to Jews. And the author is afraid that opposition to Zionism may turn to opposition to Jews, but I’ll explain that one further in a separate comment.

      • Elisabeth
        March 31, 2014, 4:14 am

        ” The atmosphere in Europe towards Israel was bad but is now toxic.”
        That is nonsense: Until some 20 years ago Israeli’s were showered with goodwill and admiration. That has changed because of Israel’s behavior.

        “If the USA shared the European view, the Jews would be deported out of Israel.”
        Who in Europe has ever advocated that?

        “Europe used to hate Jews because of anti-semitism, now they have a reason to hate us.”
        Stupid and insulting blanked statement. I am sick and tired of these accusations, as if Europe is one big homogeneous area, or as if the Middle Ages are still here. And who is ‘us’ here? Israelis, Jews, Likudniks? What a messed up piece of writing

      • Hostage
        March 31, 2014, 9:43 pm

        Europe can’t even deport its African migrants, who are about as popular as they are in Israel(and that is not a comment on African migrants, but a de facto statement), so how can they deport integrated Jews, many of whom have reached the highest echelons?

        The article said nothing at all about deporting Jews from Europe:

        If the USA shared the European view, the Jews would be deported out of Israel.

        I take that as the desire to undo the results of the mistaken policies reflected in the Balfour declaration and LoN mandate. Not to be confused with what’s legally or logistically possible.

      • Ecru
        March 31, 2014, 9:22 am

        @ Krauss

        So let me see if I understand this correctly. You a still wet behind the ears American Jew are trying to tell a European non-Jew what European non-Jews feel about Israeli Jews. All based on your supposed contacts who are apparently European Jews. Well that’s an interesting approach.

        “Europe can’t even deport its African migrants, who are about as popular as they are in Israel..”

        Got that from your “European relatives” did you? Well apart from Europe being a rather large area with all different types of problems and “solutions;” uhm, yes it can and it does. Those African migrants who recently stormed into Melilla are slated for just such an expulsion to give you one example. But what Europe doesn’t do, and here you’re revealing your own Zionist leanings by conflating these people with economic migrants, is eject REFUGEES without cause (actually I’m slightly surprised you didn’t call them “infiltrators”). Nor are African migrants as unpopular as you say, nowhere near the amount of vitriol is aimed at them in Europe as it is in Israel. For example I can’t remember a pogrom here in the EC as was the recent case in Tel Aviv. Not liked? Yes. Resented? Yes. But nowhere even approaching the loathing they attract in [Israel]. In fact here in Spain in a lot of ways I’d rather be an African immigrant than a native Gitano.

        Muslims incidentally are the least tolerated immigrants in Europe. Interestingly enough it seems a lot of this is down to Muslim communities being closed off, or at least being perceived as being closed off from the larger host society. Now which people have seen that before?

        “…how can they deport integrated Jews…”

        An emigree to Israel is by definition not integrated into the society they left. And I didn’t talk about expulsion I talked about the possibility of people not being let back in to somewhere they emigrated from. Please leave the straw men in the field where they belong. Thanks.

      • amigo
        March 31, 2014, 10:45 am

        Ecru, I believe Ireland is granting Citizenship to 4000 new Irish Citizens today.
        No one is asked what their religion is.
        And hey, there may even be a few “Black Irish” amongst them.

        Ain,t it grand and so heart rendering watching those folks receiving citizenship in the most Western Democracy in Europe.

        No one says getting there is easy but there is light at the end of the tunnel if they qualify and Ireland does not lock asylum seekers in prisons or try to pay some unnamed state to relieve them of the burden.

      • The JillyBeans
        March 31, 2014, 3:12 pm

        There is an ultranationalist movement in much of Europe. Several countries are trying to outlaw Kosher and Halal rules, circumcision, to begin with. The indigenous ethnics in these countries have moved on from anti-African, anti-Muslim to anti-Jewish. I honestly don’t know how anyone wouldn’t expect this. Once we became fine with Islamophobia, we should have been prepared for antisemitism, after all Jews in those countries don’t conform to the communities either. This is the problem that was created, you can’t expect double standards to hold very long when it comes to racism.

      • Ecru
        April 1, 2014, 2:21 am

        @ The Jilllybeans

        Several countries are trying to outlaw Kosher and Halal rules, circumcision, to begin with.

        Not because of religion but because of European laws on

        1) Animal cruelty.
        2) Protection of children.

        Like many Europeans I don’t like the method of halal/kosher slaughter – it’s got nothing to do with religion, it’s just needlessly cruel in the modern world.

        Likewise I have no objection to an ADULT choosing to be circumcised, free will and all that, but to perform an irreversible and unnecessary operation on an infant unable to give informed consent I find objectionable. Same goes for FGM. Human rights override religious tradition.

        The indigenous ethnics in these countries have moved on from anti-African, anti-Muslim to anti-Jewish.

        Yes because we all know that Africans, Muslims and Jews all get along so well. Look at history and it’s hard to escape the conclusion that people are sh#ts irrespective of ethnicity. Rather than saying “indigenous ethnics” how about “indigenous bigots” that way you’re not tarring all “indigenous” Europeans with the same brush.

        Also you might like to look up the EDL (English Defense League – a xenophobic nationalist group) links with Zionists.

        JDL Supports the EDL

        EDL’s Jewish Division

    • thetruthhurts
      March 30, 2014, 7:17 pm

      i don’t agree with the british jew at all. as a matter of fact i think the person’s tremendously overreacting here.
      i sincerely doubt that in all of human history, such a vast large scale operation of psychological manipulation and truth perversion , as that by the supporters of israel on the american citizenry, has ever been so sucessfully carried out.
      i’d like to tell my fellow mondo readers here of a disturbingly true story regarding my mother’s pharmacist about three years ago. joe was a catholic and one of the nicest people i had ever met. i had known joe then for about three years.
      he had been extremely helpful one time in carefully going over the laboratory clinical trials of a drug that some stupid doctors and nurses had wanted to give my mother, one day after she had been rushed to the hospital because of the very same drug the day before, and which i prevented them from readministering to her before joe’s opinion which ultimately was, “this is the drug responsible for mom vomiting, don’t let them give it to her.” the hospital pharamacist was in total agreement with joe,also.
      if i ever had to pick up drugs at night he would always be listening to michael weiner, AKA michael savage, on his little transistor radio he had propped up on the ledge in the front. i never said anything.
      one day, while waiting in line for drugs, the man in front of me got into it with joe about palestine. i just couldn’t prevent my self.
      i don’t remember what i said but it was very unprovacative, something israel supporters just absolutely detest, facts.
      a friend of mine had told me she knows a lot of intelligent people but when they start talking about politics or religion they go crazy. i had never met one of these before, until joe.
      joe’s face began to immediately contort and his eyes pierced me like daggers of hate,as if in one of the halloween series movies.
      he began to foam at the mouth, literally i kid you not, and began to wildly wave his arms around, all this while in a retail store professionally on duty.
      i remember he said, he as sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, that he could produce a document that proves the palestinians had never owed any land. (gee, i wonder if savage could have put that idea in his head)
      obviously, i realized there was no point in debating this with mr jeckyl. but his mania seemed to rachet up a notch next.
      raving while foaming at the mouth, he wildly said that if he was younger,( he was 60), he’d go over there and fight those damn terrorists himself!
      he went for the three foot high door, behind which i stood, and very huffily opened
      the gate. i thought he was gonna come out to take a swing at me but he walked right by in a huff.
      i just stood there in shock, watching “my friend” turn into a zio-psycho.
      customers were all standing around watching this exibit. another employee came up to me and told me his zionistic sentiments were well known amongst the staff.
      the next four stops to joe he very sincerely apologized and ofcourse i accepted.
      now i’m not saying every israeli-brainwashed american is as passionate as joe, but i have no fears that israel has the minds, and hearts, of their parasitic host, america, wrapped around their little finger, FOREVER!
      vince bugliosi, author of “the prosecution of george w bush(et al) for murder” said very appropriately, most americans are stupid. most definitely.
      israel controls the people, the media, and the courts.
      bugliosi can’t find one prosecutor in the country, not one, that has the guts to appoint him special prosecutor so us real americans can get our justice due.
      as i’ve said here before, a former USArmy war college vietnam vet said”israel will be the cause of wwlll. and i don’t see any reason to disagree.

      • lysias
        March 30, 2014, 10:24 pm

        Bugliosi himself wrote a massive tome defending the Warren Commission fiction. Why, I ask you?

      • heartbeatt
        March 31, 2014, 9:37 am

        It’s not just over-the-top Islamophobes, but well-educated moderates whom I have known for decades who suddenly suspect one of being an antisemite for even discussing the facts. This jolted me into a new awareness of how indoctrinated everyone has been.
        I appreciate anonymous’s paranoia, for if he fears that way, then it’s the way he fears. I am concerned with Palestinian’s well-being first and foremost, for they are the oppressed, but that certainly does not exclude my concern for Israelis who are in the process of forfeiting any sympathy.

      • Pixel
        April 1, 2014, 2:27 am

        Concern for Palestinians and concern for recovering Zionists are not mutually exclusive. Pain is pain.

  2. Justpassingby
    March 30, 2014, 4:19 pm

    I dont agree one bit. Truth is that IP conflict is dead, not many cares unfortunately.

    • MHughes976
      March 30, 2014, 4:33 pm

      I think that the conflict lives on. It complicates everything for everyone, to say the least. Hence all the Kerrying around.

      • Justpassingby
        March 30, 2014, 5:27 pm

        MHughes976
        For who is the IP a problem in the world? Not many imho.

      • jsinton
        March 30, 2014, 7:26 pm

        I think your statement is totally wrong. Europeans, along with the REST OF THE WORLD” is obsessed with what you call the “IP” problem. The last bastion of REAL support is in the US, and I think our UK fellow is correct in saying once the tide slips out on that, there will be no hope of a solution all parties so disparately need.

      • Justpassingby
        March 31, 2014, 7:07 am

        jsinton

        Obsessed? Not at all. Besides US wont stop its support for Israel or its goals. Thats a fact.

      • ToivoS
        March 31, 2014, 12:44 am

        Justpassingby says: Time to give up Palestinians. The Zionists have won. Further resistance is futile. Nothing you Arab lovers can do to change that outcome. To repeat, time to give up Palestinians.

        OK justpassing by, good to hear your advice. Somehow I do not think you are a supporter of justice for the Palestinian people. Just my guess.

      • Justpassingby
        March 31, 2014, 7:05 am

        Toivos

        Its palestinians themselves that have given up. The solution is more and more closer to what Israel wants. Thats a fact.

      • MHughes976
        March 31, 2014, 1:07 pm

        I see the IP problem in all questions of a) all questions of great power status b) all questions of economic relationships between the rest of the world and the oil producers. These two kinds of question are often linked.
        We are seeing Russia in the midst of an attempt to assert itself as a great power, if only in its own (quite big) region. To have this status it must be able to offer support to lesser powers, which is, logically enough, one of the marks of ‘great’ status. Hence the need to keep its naval links with Syria through Crimea. Anyone who wants to be a patron or player in the ME game has to take some position with respect to IP, even if it is ambiguous and prevaricating. But it’s there, a constant irritant.
        We see the EU trying to consolidate its trading position with the ME, where Israel is an important partner. The EU is supposed to stand for certain principles which are at stake in the ME, including when it comes to the Palestinian areas under Israeli control. So there are minor, but perceptibly increasing, difficulties. China is expanding economically into Africa, where there is a strong Muslim presence – and though the Muslim world is not about to initiate a clash of civilisations it is concerned enough about IP to make tact, at very least, on the part of its trading partners necessary.
        Iran, I think, needs to be brought back into some sort of comity of nations. That is because alternatives to ME oil have been overestimated and because Iran has an important proportion of the ME’s overall oil reserves.
        Religious organisations are becoming increasingly uncomfortable with each other as conflicting religious claims are made about IP and the comforting feeling that it can all be solved with a bit of good will looks ever more unpromising.
        All these problems interconnect.
        I disagree with Norman Finkelstein that Obama and Kerry are interesting themselves in the ME out of vanity, when the bubble of their reputation is just as likely to be punctured as amplified by what happens. People motivated by vanity would look elsewhere and take fewer risks. They are motivated by fear.
        The IP problem is the worst thing in the world. Its poison spreads everywhere, here some, there some, noticed here, less noticed there, but always more tomorrow than today.

  3. ritzl
    March 30, 2014, 4:21 pm

    Thanks Phil. For sharing this and that Aslan video. Both are pitch perfect, imho.

    Consensus, forgiveness, sharing form the path forward. I think that would address the concerns in both outlooks.

    The “What Happens Next?” series here at MW also has much “reaching out” ideas in its articles.

    Tough road ahead though. No question.

    Pam Olsen just posted an MLK quote that illustrates the root PTB blame mentality:

    Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.”

    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr. link to mondoweiss.net

    All people, not only Jews, will have to courageous and resilient as this conflict moves into its “punishment of the innocent”* phase. The people that have been right and moral on this (no matter when they came to those realizations) are going to get blamed for causing all the problems. That may be a common bond which may help alleviate some of your contact’s angst.

    New families. New tribes. …

    Thanks again. I think you all are getting out in front of this. That alone is a good sign.

    *These phase lists are meant as humor, but its very dark humor and they have a very strong ring of truth to them: link to pinetree.net

  4. Mike_Konrad
    March 30, 2014, 4:26 pm

    Support for Israel won’t go from 51% to 49%, it will fall off a cliff, with massive implications.

    Nonsense!

    The chief engine of support for Israel is Evangelical Christians who are roughly 33% of the population. Their support for Israel is more dogged than Jewish Americans.

    In real terms, America’s Sarah Palins are more Zionist than Adelson – not for the same reason as Jews are; but even more Zionist.

    No other country in the world has such a large component of Evangelicals. Europe does not. They have Catholics and mainstream Protestants.

    Fire-breathing Evangelicals are almost – not totally – unique to the Americas: The USA, Canada, Brazil, and yes: Chile. Click Here.

    In Brazil, the locals say that when the Evangelicals hit 50%, Brazil’s foreign policy [towards Israel] will change. Brazil is expected to flip to Evangelical in about 10-15 years. They are already 1/4 of the population. A critical mass to push through a pro-Zionist policy.

    Click Here

    They have already started to change the Brazilian culture

    Brazil’s fashion industry changes for Evangelicals

    Okay! That girl may be a bit extreme, but it is changing the culture. Those Brazilian thongs on Ipanema may be fading into history.

    The Americas are substantially different than Europe. In religion, the rise of a dissident Evangelical Christianity – not merely reformed, but on steroids – is changing the body politic. Israel has to hold out only one decade, and South America will start to flip, one nation at a time.

    Some street demonstrations from various countries.

    The protesters do not reflect government policy, not; but they are growing.

    MEXICO SUPPORTS ISRAEL

    CHILE SUPPORTS ISRAEL

    ARGENTINA SUPPORTS ISRAEL

    GUATEMALA SUPPORTS ISRAEL

    PERU SUPPORTS ISRAEL

    Those videos are made by an Argentine Catholic of Italian extractions

    Marcelo100ARG

    link to youtube.com

    Yet, the Arabs are making a full court press in South America. The Palestinians in Chile are extraordinarily strong. But right now there is a massive Evangelical Revival in Latin America. Massive! These people are heavily Zionist.

    Israel is aware of it, and making outreaches to them.

    There is very little like this in post-Christian Europe.

    So America – as well as Canada, and Latin America – will not go the way of Europe.

    • Annie Robbins
      March 30, 2014, 4:51 pm

      The chief engine of support for Israel is Evangelical Christians who are roughly 33% of the population….So America – as well as Canada, and Latin America – will not go the way of Europe.

      so mike, if what you allege is true, that america will not go the way of europe, why do you think the gov of israel got so bent out of shape at the christ at a checkpoint conference in bethlehem recently? maybe you didn’t read zionism was not monolith within the evangelical community and the youth movement (the ‘emerging’ evangelicals) sees things another way.

      if, as you allege the “chief engine of support for Israel is Evangelical Christians” evangelicals cross over, then what?

      link to mondoweiss.net

      link to israeltoday.co.il

      Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) has issued a last-minute statement suggesting Christians steer clear of the “Christ at the Checkpoint” (CatC) conference that opens tomorrow (Monday) in Palestinian-held Bethlehem. The statement, which came in response to an investigative inquiry by Israel Today, regards the CatC conference as a serious long-term threat to Israel’s security.

      so do you disagree w/the israeli gov?

      • chuckcarlos
        March 30, 2014, 5:41 pm

        that leading declared anti-semite Jimmy Carter is one mighty fine example of an EVANGELICAL Christian…

        Mike_Konrad is an Israeli Zionist Plant, in both meanings

      • Mike_Konrad
        March 30, 2014, 9:53 pm
        Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) has issued a last-minute statement suggesting Christians steer clear of the “Christ at the Checkpoint” (CatC) conference that opens tomorrow (Monday) in Palestinian-held Bethlehem. The statement, which came in response to an investigative inquiry by Israel Today, regards the CatC conference as a serious long-term threat to Israel’s security.

        so do you disagree w/the israeli gov?

        I disagree but not for a reason you might like.

        I disagree because I think Christ at the Checkpoint is all but a meaningless minority.

        What is interesting is that Israel considers a religious conference a security threat? I do not agree with everything Israel says or does.

        But the fact remains, the Evangelicals are solidly pro-Israel.

        Much of Christ at the checkpoint is from mainstream Protestants, not Evangelicals.

        For an Evangelical Response to such conferences:

      • FreddyV
        March 31, 2014, 1:53 pm

        @Mike Konrad:

        Paul Wilkinson’s remedial theology and mud slinging only has an ear within a very small corner of Christianity in the UK. Those that latch onto it also believe they will be raptured to heaven for a ringside seat to watch all the Jews of Israel either convert to Christianity or be slaughtered.

        I find it very interesting that Jews want to align themselves with those who hold to such anti Semitic theology, but I suppose such is Israel’s desperation, they’ll happily do so.

      • Pixel
        April 1, 2014, 3:16 am

        “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”
        ……………………………………………………………………………………..Margaret Mead

    • seanmcbride
      March 30, 2014, 5:22 pm

      Mike Konrad,

      Are you a Christian evangelical?

      • seafoid
        March 31, 2014, 9:36 am

        I bet he is. I bet he knows this book

        link to amazon.com

      • seanmcbride
        March 31, 2014, 9:47 am

        If Mike Konrad is a Christian evangelist, I would be curious to know the religious denomination with which he is affiliated.

        Also — which Christian theologians have most influenced Mike’s thinking about Israeli issues and the world in general?

    • talknic
      March 30, 2014, 5:47 pm

      Mike_Konrad Delusional stuff Mike
      “Brazilian fashion covers up for evangelical Christians “

      LOL. They’re making money from the evangelical market by making clothes to cater for evangelicals. They’re not stopping typical non-evangelical Brazilian fashion

      “No other country in the world has such a large component of Evangelicals”

      The US is only one country and it is earning well deserved distrust even within the US. Meanwhile the moderate Islam is outgrowing evangelicals world wide

      “MEXICO / CHILE / ARGENTINA / GUATEMALA / PERU SUPPORTS ISRAEL”
      Desperation all posted by the Islamophobe Marcelo100ARG. Small groups in support of Israel are not whole countries in support of Israel

      “Those videos are made by an Argentine Catholic of Italian extractions

      Marcelo100ARG”

      This is what is actually written

      MOROCCO-ARGENTINA PROUDLY SUPPORTING ISRAEL AGAINST MUSLIMS DAMN TERRORIST.

      CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS SUPPORT AND ALWAYS WILL SUPPORT THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL AS THE VATICAN AND POPE FRANCISCO. link to translate.google.com.

    • bilal a
      March 30, 2014, 7:58 pm

      Even American Evangelicals are waking up to the mainstream pathological hatred of Christianity , from ‘Christopaths’ , in Israel and Hollywood . That and pink washing will reverse evangelical attitudes in one generation.

      Muslims our natural allies
      link to firstthings.com

    • mijj
      March 30, 2014, 8:41 pm

      > “The chief engine of support for Israel is Evangelical Christians who are roughly 33% of the population. Their support for Israel is more dogged than Jewish Americans.”

      For most people, support for Israel is entirely abstract. People do not (literally) physically nourish themselves with Israel every day. For most people it exists entirley within the realm of thought. It’s an idea. People are supporting an idea (via marketing), like they’d support a pop group. And because Israel exists entirely within the realm of abstract thought (for people physically remote from Israel), the only reason it persists in the mind is that the concept is continually marketed (by religious leaders or otherwise) .. otherwise, having no physical day-to-day relevance, it would just fade away as a point of interest. For those where “Israel” exists as a concept void of personal physical relevance, it means the associations with “Israel” can instantaneously change. One set of associations (via marketing) can instantaneously change to another set of associations (revealed previously-hidden realities).

      So, absolutely, support can fall off a cliff.

    • Giles
      March 31, 2014, 7:30 am

      46 to 1.

  5. irishmoses
    March 30, 2014, 4:38 pm

    Here’s an apropos comment I posted a few days ago on a different thread which shows I share the anonymous British Jew’s fears of what the future might bring for America’s Jews if they fail to get out in front on this issue. I was labeled an anti-Semite for my views:

    link to mondoweiss.net

    Irishmoses says:
    March 21, 2014 at 3:03 pm

    “The intellectual labors are done, the activists are moving. The public square will increasingly belong to the warriors of both sides. And Vassar shows us clearly which side will win.”

    Phil really stumbled onto something at the angry meeting he attended at Vassar College. Jews. even those who support BDS, are being identified as the problem and feel intimidated by the anger and stridency of those who oppose Israel’s oppression of the Palestinians. Phil himself felt that anger and was apparently intimidated enough to not participate and to leave immediately after the meeting. He saw the angry lack of patience for debate and the growing push for action by the unprivileged, the people of color, the non-Jews. His words above reflect his fear that the debate is ending and that the time for action and conflict is beginning.

    The real question for me is when this intellectual debate ends and the battle lines are drawn how will the battle affect American Jews, just a tiny minority of our citizenry? If they are identified as supporters and enablers of an oppressive foreign regime to which their main loyalty lies, that would be a very dangerous development for American Jews. They could be identified as the problem and the underlying cause of whatever harm, perceived or real, that befalls this country because of Israel’s actions and corrupting influence on America’s governmental and public institutions. The charge might become not dual loyalty but disloyalty.

    That’s a very scary prospect that should give American Jews pause. By failing to be out in front in opposing Israel and its US supporters on a very clear-cut human rights issue that is causing great harm to their own country, American Jews are potentially putting all their accomplishments, contributions, credibility and loyalty at stake. What happens if perceptions of Jewish privilege, Jewish influence, and Jewish power get attached to something truly nefarious like Jewish disloyalty to this country? Fairly or unfairly, those dots could be connected into a litany of charges, mostly unfair, that could be devastating to American Jews. Their visceral fear of a potential for a wave of antisemitism in this country could well become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Obviously “American Jews” are a diffuse and complicated group with a broad spectrum of opinions. Because of their success (and successful assimilation), they are no longer seen as a definable and threatening “other” group. But the Israel-Palestine issue has the potential for changing that perception and Phil’s experience at the Vassar meeting may reflect the beginnings of that change. Committed activists are tired of the talk and impatient with the intellectual pleadings of liberal Zionist Jews. They want action, not words, and they may be beginning to perceive Jews, even pro-BDS Jews, as part of the problem not the solution.

    The comments about feeling uncomfortable and intimidated when Israel is questioned are illuminating. To the committed activists, Phil’s “outsiders of color”, Israel is the problem so there was no sympathy for claims of discomfort or intimidation by “privileged Jews”. Or, as Phil put it, citing Omar Bargouti, for people still in the middle, “If you need time to figure this out, just get out of the way.”

    The sad irony in all of this is that American Jews have been the spearhead of civil rights in this country: workplace, racial, gender, sexual orientation, you name it. Yet, when it comes to Israel and Palestine, they have actively or passively enabled one of the worst and longest ongoing violation of human rights in modern times. Sure there are far worse examples in the world, but none of those have been promoted and enabled by an identifiable minority group of American citizens. Nor do any of those far worse regimes identify themselves as the homeland of the Jewish people, which, by definition, includes American Jews.

    Zionism intentionally attached itself to the hip of American Jews and has successfully curried the loyalty of the vast majority and successfully encouraged them to use their political and financial influence to gain the support of our government for their cause. While there are valid emotional reasons for that attachment it comes with a price. It attaches American Jews to the actions and conduct of its oppressive regime. The question for American Jews is whether that emotional attachment is worth the moral price they are paying and the risk it poses to them.”

    • American
      March 30, 2014, 7:53 pm

      @ irishmoses

      I don’t see anti Semitism in that. Pretty accurate in most statements.
      What I think is the problem within the wider Jewish community however, is not they all have all ‘actively’ supported the US Zionist manipulations and Israel, but that they have been ‘lulled’ or propagandized into a sense of entitlement by the holocaust and they accept the deference to them and the Jewish State ‘as their due.’ Therefore the ones that are even marginally Pro Israel see nothing wrong with favoritism shown to them or Israel being allowed everything it wants and they don’t really see any reason to protest it.
      It has become their ‘normal’.
      I totally disagree with the propaganda that the West and the whole world ‘let’ the Jewish holocaust happen and so the entire world owes the Jews ‘forever’.
      That is a very dangerous attitude and expectation for any people to have, particularly when it gets taken to the extreme as by Zionist, Inc..
      And especially when that attitude or expectation is passed down to succeeding generations that weren’t the actual victims.
      Its bound to end cause other people will balk at this when they start seeing it and the best way to end that particular problem gently for Jews is by showing them eternal indulgence of Israel is not going to continue.

    • Pixel
      April 1, 2014, 3:23 am

      “…American Jews have been the spearhead of civil rights in this country: workplace, racial, gender, sexual orientation, you name it.”

      American Jews have been — among those — who spearhead[ed] civil rights in this country: workplace, racial, gender, sexual orientation, you name it.

  6. lysias
    March 30, 2014, 4:48 pm

    One more suggestion that the times may be changing, even among American Jews. Today’s Washington Post (the print edition, no less, page C4) has this piece by Sidney Schwartz about a squabble in the Jewish community in the D.C. area about a new play, What lies beneath the drama over Theater J. Schwartz’s piece opens

    Given the controversy surrounding Theater J’s production of Motti Lerner’s play “The Admission” at the D.C. Jewish Community Center, I expected to see a full-scale indictment of Israel’s conduct during its 1948 war of independence. Instead I encountered a play that probed the complexity of war, politics, memory, ethnic identity, love and survival with astounding sensitivity and nuance.

    After the play was scheduled last summer, a small group of Washington-area Jews organized themselves into a group called Citizens Opposed to Propaganda Masquerading as Art. The group exerted enormous pressure on the Jewish Federation of Greater Washington to cut funding to the DCJCC because of Theater J’s sponsorship of plays that ask uncomfortable questions about Israel. The effort is similar to actions taken in New York and San Francisco to shut down Jewish film festivals over films critical of Israel. In a display of courage all too rare these days, the executive director and president of the Jewish Federation declared that they would not cave to COPMA’s pressure, even though holding firm would likely cost the federation tens of thousands of dollars in contributions.

    In fact, the DCJCC and Theater J did make a concession to the protesters. It downgraded “The Admission” from a full production to a “workshop” and inserted into the spring schedule an additional production of “Golda’s Balcony,” a play about former Israeli prime minister Golda Meir.

    and concludes (significantly, in my opinion)

    One gift Nelson Mandela gave the world was the understanding that no healthy nation can be built on the back of a historical injustice without a process of truth and reconciliation in which all parties come to grips with the past. There is plenty of blame to go around on all sides. Until the parties to the Middle East conflict are ready for such a process, perhaps art will have to suffice.

  7. seafoid
    March 30, 2014, 5:21 pm

    He’s right.
    especially this :

    “Europe used to hate Jews because of anti-semitism, now they have a reason to hate us”

    If the ordinary people in the US join the dots it could get very messy.

    Zionism is odious and they have bred a generation of sabras who are totally out of touch with the outside world. Bringing up the Holocaust to justify Gaza is appalling.
    They are so used to getting their own way that they have lost all sense of PR management.

    “the artificial essence of Zionism, the grounding of its rhetoric in the notion of ‘negation’, ‘inversion’, ‘synthesis’ or ‘combination’; its self definition as a constrained, corrective, redeptive (Ben Gurion even used the notion of ‘messianic’ in historical time and geographic space. In this context, centralized planning is the ultimate trope that binds words and things ; it is the Zionist spirit itself, emanating from layers of fictional prose , ideological manifestos or programmatic protocols and printed on the landscape over and over again with every new spatial move or architectural object” ”
    Zvi Efrat, “a civilian occupation”, Page 61

    Hasbara is dead. 1948 is coming back into the foreground .

    link to electronicintifada.net
    “They keep coming up with these reasons that the Jewish community has to support Israel and one by one they get exposed as nonsense.”
    Dembina is also convinced that opinions really are shifting in the British Jewish community, and that the combined force of protests, cultural contributions and public debate are genuinely affecting public feeling on Palestine. What he calls the “ruse” of accusing any critic of the State of Israel of being anti-Semitic has been “burnt out.”
    “I don’t know how much,” he says, “but the ground is shifting. I wouldn’t say that the Zionists are on the back foot now, but they’re certainly not on the front foot. I don’t want to exaggerate, but it would have been unthinkable ten years ago for a Jewish comedian to put this show on in central London. My sense is most Jewish people will still not yet openly criticize the State of Israel, but their willingness to nail their colors to the overtly Zionist mast seems to be decreasing. The Zionists are having to try much, much harder to hang on to the compliance of the Jewish community. I perform to large numbers of Jewish people all the time, and they are becoming increasingly embarrassed by the antics of the Zionist secret police who claim to speak for them, and they are beginning to drift away.”

    It’s not one thing. It’s multifactorial

    - Euro reaction to the end of the 2SS. Israel never wanted peace.
    - Endless procrastination, zero negotiation
    - The failure of the Bush doctrine
    - Walter Reed hospital wounded
    - Romney’s failure
    - the 29 standing ovations in Congress for Bibi
    - Zionist overreach
    - the decline of American power /Lehman
    - failure to get green light to attack Syria after massive public pushback in UK and US
    - the rise to power of turds like Lieberman and Danon
    - the weakening of the power of the Shoah to keep people in line
    - simple generational change
    - Dem vs Republican differences on key issues – Zionism marginalized
    - Adelson as the embodiment of the Protocols

    • John Douglas
      March 30, 2014, 6:33 pm

      Seafroid, “He’s right. especially this : “Europe used to hate Jews because of anti-semitism, now they have a reason to hate us”

      Seafroid is usually right, but not here. Assuming “Jews” refers to European Jews, or any Jews for that matter, no one is right to hate any individual Jew or “Jews in general” (whatever that means) on the grounds of what any other Jew or any Israeli does. The Israeli government behaves abominably toward the Palestinians, exhibiting racism and cruelty. The responsibility for this rests with those who do it and those who support those who do it.

      • bilal a
        March 30, 2014, 8:05 pm

        Its normal to hate an elitist group’s actions that discriminate against the ‘others’, and pushes a foreign self serving morality upon the majority, especially when this is done with financial corruption and deception. This isnt racism , unless it extends to a confusion of the group actions with individuals in the group.

        Certain WASP groups earned the same disdain.

      • seafoid
        March 31, 2014, 1:49 am

        I don’t think it’s going to be fair, John, but Judaism has pretty much thrown in its lot with Zionism, for better or for worse. And worse is on the way. All of this whining about the Holocaust to justify oppression and brutality – a lot of Eureka moments are ahead, I think. It won’t be possible for the NYT to manage the story.

        There is essentially a media blockade on criticism of Israel in the US. You never see cartoons mocking the Zionists. I think there’s a lot of criticism that’s going to come out of the woodwork .

  8. seanmcbride
    March 30, 2014, 5:21 pm

    If one were to go about orchestrating a campaign to stir up antisemitic feelings in America, one would be hard-pressed to dream up a more effective event than the recent Adelson/RJC meeting — the Elders of Zion meme in flesh and blood all over the mainstream media. The conspicuous groveling of leading Republican politicians before King Adelson will leave an indelible impression in the minds of many Americans.

    The British Jew above has obviously noticed these dangerous trends. The RJC itself is completely oblivious to the consequences of its actions.

    • Abierno
      March 30, 2014, 8:27 pm

      Also Ron Dermer Israeli ambassador was present and spoke. This election can be expected to be a mirror of 2012 with Likud and republican running as a fused party. Many of these machinations will be hidden owing to the machinations of ALEC, lawfare and smears of antisemitic against any who call attention to large sums of out of district monies from Jewish kingmakers (remember the Michael Grim election?), and the refusal of mainstream media to present even a modicum of non biased or accurate information about this process. Mr MacBride your comment is absolutely on the money?

    • JeffB
      March 30, 2014, 10:29 pm

      @ seanmcbride

      Those same candidates are going to spend months pandering to Iowans about ethanol subsidies and creationism. Does that generate anti-Iowa sentiment? The American system is a series of steps where different politicians accrete supporters and slowly build a broad coalition capable of governing the country. That’s how the system is designed to work. Every American understands that politicians who raise money have to go to various interests groups.

      Koch is going to be pushing for stronger anti-environmental positions. Adelson wants war with Iran (most likely). Club for Growth is going to want promises on tax policy. So what?

      • adele
        March 31, 2014, 3:35 am

        JeffB,
        what you say has some truth to it but you are missing the greater picture and possible outcome with your “So what?”. On one side we have the kochs, the adelsons, and their bought politicians, neocons, war & corporate profiteers; on the other side are those already opposing the kochs and the whole sordid entourage. The economy, job creation is still struggling, wages continue to stagnate, treasury continues to be pilfered. And the effects of neo-liberalism is creating alot of instability worldwide. People are weary. Add Adelson into the mix. With Adelson continuing to be a political kingmaker, a more intense spotlight will be put on him, and given his political ideology this will just create a greater awareness of the oppression/ethnic cleansing that he supports (+ supporting an unpopular war with Iran); compound that with the zionist narrative backfiring and spinning out of control before our eyes, the Palestinian narrative will become more focused and generate more mainstream awareness. It will be harder and harder to censor all of this.

        It’s just plain risky to throw your lot in with the war mongers and corporate fiefdoms. And don’t go counting on the evangelicals to save the day in the age of the internet.

      • JeffB
        April 1, 2014, 9:49 am

        @adele

        The same process of interest group accretion works on the Democratic side though not in quite the same way. At a very deep level as much as possible the parties have different strategies:

        Left = those policies that have majority support
        Right = those policies that have strong support from a minority

        So overwhelming a leftwing coalition will be a group of people who mostly agree on most of the stuff. While a rightwing coalition will be a group of people who passionate agree on a few things.

        If you reverse that and take the contrapositive:

        Left’s anti-right strategy = avoid creating subgroups of the population which passionately disagree with a specific the left is doing. Which if you think about it is what Obama’s milk toast kinds of implementations are designed to do.

        Right’s anti-left strategy = avoid allowing a broad / overwhelming consensus to exist on a large group of issues. Which is why the right needs to focus so heavily on wedge issues in their branding.

        guns, anti-mining (or anti-logging), sexual liberation, racial issues…. all fit into this paradigm where the left needs to walk softly structurally. And of course Israel is another example. There is nothing unusual there. It is just another interest group and another issue.

        given his political ideology this will just create a greater awareness of the oppression/ethnic cleansing that he supports (+ supporting an unpopular war with Iran); compound that with the zionist narrative backfiring and spinning out of control before our eyes, the Palestinian narrative will become more focused and generate more mainstream awareness. It will be harder and harder to censor all of this.

        Agreed that’s already happened. Which is why you see such sharp partisan differences in the USA and Europe regarding support for Israel. Israel is gradually losing support from the left because the propaganda doesn’t work as well. But… saying that is very different than saying what is going on is unusual, it is the norm in American politics.

        It’s just plain risky to throw your lot in with the war mongers and corporate fiefdoms.

        I don’t know. Corporate fiefdoms win far more battles in USA politics than they lose. The fact that both parities are essentially representing corporations at this point:

        Democrats = complex processes and service industries (high value labor input) ex: General Electric, Microsoft
        Republicans = resource extraction industries (require lots of investment to offset labor) ex: ExxonMobil, WalMart

        US politics at an economic level is arguable about determining when these corporate interests conflict with one another how to resolve them. There is no meaningful move (i.e. supported by tens of millions) to decentralize the economy broadly. Short of things like a massive plague killing billions globally, a massive religious revival surge leading to a change in attitude (like the Reformation) or a nuclear war I don’t see anything in the next generation or two that’s that could change this much.

        Yes that’s depressing as a leftist but in the end the state of Israel is doing the right thing for Israelis throwing in with corporations.

      • adele
        April 3, 2014, 2:03 pm

        JeffB:
        you made an assumption that the “opposition” I referenced in my comment was the Democratic party. That is not what I meant by “opposition”. Again, it goes back to the GRASSROOTS organizing work that progressive communities are doing which is independent of the establishment Left, i.e., Democratic party. The establishment parties are simply too co-opted by big business and big-money donors and have not been answering to the needs of the people.

        The establishment parties always align with $ (even more so now in light of the SCOTUS ruling), and the progressive grassroots movements act as the vanguard for social change.

        The way you see the political landscape doesn’t incorporate these progressive (and increasingly pro-Palestinian) grassroots movements because a) you don’t share their politics b) you don’t have a grasp of the historical processes and the way social/economic changes occur) c) they are a threat to your priorities and so you erase them from the picture.

        You can continue to behave like an ostrich or pretend that the status quo will remain the same feeling secure in that the Israeli spin doctors bring out the PR & $ Cavalry, continue to use the same discredited lies & distortions, cry “anti-semitism” to the point it no longer has meaning, and of course deploy guns, violence and aggression against the restless natives to keep them in their place. These tactics won’t work forever. In fact, their effectiveness are diminishing by the day.

      • JeffB
        April 3, 2014, 5:33 pm

        @Adele

        The way you see the political landscape doesn’t incorporate these progressive (and increasingly pro-Palestinian) grassroots movements because a) you don’t share their politics b) you don’t have a grasp of the historical processes and the way social/economic changes occur) c) they are a threat to your priorities and so you erase them from the picture.

        No. I don’t have any problem believing progressive ideas percolate up from the fringes to the mainstream. The Overton Window idea that ideas move:
        Unthinkable -> Radical -> Acceptable -> Sensible -> Popular -> Policy

        But I don’t really see that as having much impact on policies. This process for most ideas takes multiple generations. And of course it is just as likely to come from any fringe as the left, I don’t see the progressive left as particularly owning this. For example the recent resurgence of confederate economic ideology that’s hitting the Republican party came from the conservative fringes not the liberal ones.

        I’d say do a test.
        Look at policy proposals from the 10 closest issue to April 3, 1994 in the following 4 magazines:

        The Nation (progressive left)
        The New Republic (mainstream left)
        The Wall Street Journal (mainstream right)
        Reason (fringe right)

        and do a count of which ones are enacted into law by percentages. Who wins? Who wins by a huge margin?

        These tactics won’t work forever. In fact, their effectiveness are diminishing by the day.

        Are they? Then why is the polling in the USA so much more Zionist in 2014 than it was in 1994 which was much more Zionist than 1974 and much more Zionist than 1954? Why has policy shifted?

        What evidence do you have that the effectiveness is diminishing? Polling data even on the left is pretty solid. Even in the The Nation there isn’t an anti-Israeli consensus. Moreover I see is that even in Europe where the pro-UN, pro-Palestinian forces the shift has been pro-Israel over the last decade with whatever shifts are happening in actual European policy being mildly pro-Israel.

        You may be right that we have a fundamental difference. I see two parties that while a bit corrupt mostly do represent the policy positions that voters in the USA support. If voters nearly as progressive as progressives activists claim progressive Democrats would wipe the floor with all Republicans regardless of district. The Democratic party would be happy to run genuine progressives in purple and red districts if they could win elections, but they have a long track record of losing. Which to my mind proves rather clearly that there is no great pent up desire for progressive policy. Which BTW is what the polling shows.

        And this isn’t because of my personal opinions. I’d love to see American policy on a host of issues shift left. But that can’t happen not because of some conspiracy of big money but because more or less the government of the United States represents the opinions of the people of the United States. Big money can win 55-45 battles it doesn’t win 65-35 or 75-25 battles when people care.

  9. Blownaway
    March 30, 2014, 5:30 pm

    Sadly it’s too late already. There is nothing up more heartache for both peoples. It’s already one state, but this time it won’t take 60 years for results. Equality and democracy aren’t subjective. Either your for it or your not.

  10. Frejus
    March 30, 2014, 5:41 pm

    Re the author’s remark: “Europe used to hate Jews because of anti-semitism, now they have a reason to hate us.”

    This brings to mind an exchange from a movie that struck me as an eye-opener on the worsening attitudes in the US and Europe towards Israel, towards the Sheldon Adelsons in America, and perhaps (as feared by the author), towards Jews as a whole:

    #1: I am not a hateful person, but I finally realized why I hate you!
    #2: Oh, then, why do you hate me?
    #1: Because you are so hateful (to others)!

    • RoHa
      March 31, 2014, 4:32 am

      “Europe used to hate Jews because of anti-semitism, now they have a reason to hate us.”

      The first half of this is a silly thing to say. “Anti-Semitism” means “hatred of Jews” so all it says is “Europe used to hate Jews because of hating Jews.” Does he really think there was no reason for Jew-hatred in the past?

      (This is not to say that previous anti-Semitism was justified, but simply that there were reasons for it. I just do not believe that Europeans decided to hate Jews for no reason.)

      • Pixel
        April 1, 2014, 3:45 am

        Very brave of you to toss that out there.

        Nothing happens in a vacuum.

  11. Dan Crowther
    March 30, 2014, 5:51 pm

    Well, I’ve give the writer this: it’s not often the totally full of shit come clean, if only anonymously. Funny thing is, the writer doesn’t even realize he’s in the same paranoia cycle as the guy’s who founded Israel. They’re all trying to do their damndest for the tribe, just in different ways. Progress? I think not.

    • munro
      March 30, 2014, 6:11 pm

      One of my few problems with Philip Weiss is that he sometimes appears to agonize more about Jewish stature and prestige than with simple injustice. Not many abolitionists wasted time worrying about the reputation of whites.

      • JeffB
        March 30, 2014, 10:32 pm

        @munro

        Have you ever read any abolitionists? They most certainly did worry very heavily about the moral status of whites. That was often their primary focus. You’ll see a lot of arguments about slavery breeds a habit of unearned benefits i.e. benefits without labor and leads to terrible sins like masturbation…. Read them.

        sorry you are just 100% wrong on that.

    • ritzl
      March 31, 2014, 5:18 pm

      I don’t think he’s playing victim, Dan, other than that victim may be all he knows.

      I think the letter writer is sincerely looking for a way out of the communally-reinforced victimhood trap. The letter seemed to me to be heartfelt agonizing over the question of “Where do I go, if not where I am?”

      I think that’s a legit feeling and question. I’ve asked it of myself (“If I was Jewish…?”) a hundred times and I’ve never come up with a solid answer. As a non-Jew, I have zero sense of how deep that inculcated fear is, but I suspect pretty dang deep given all the self-contradictory libzio incoherence of late. This letter also gives insight into how deep, but from the angle of the convert.

  12. MHughes976
    March 30, 2014, 5:52 pm

    ‘Now they have a reason to hate us’ says my fellow citizen. No we haven’t. There will never be a good reason for hating or indeed loving anyone because of their race or ancestry.
    People may love or hate with no good reason, of course. It’s another question whether a dangerously anti-Semitic movement could arise without good reason. I must say that I don’t think it will in anything like the near future. When it comes to the Palestine question I do not fear ‘new anti-Semitism’ but the same old complacency and prevarication.

    • irishmoses
      March 30, 2014, 6:15 pm

      Alas, MHughes976, you’re probably right. Whevever we see a glint of progress it’s soon followed by a retrograde movement. It’s easy to imagine progress and beneficial outcomes here on MW. We’re listening to our own choir. Once you leave the church and get out into the real world you soon discover nobody is really thinking about the I-P issue, and nobody really cares all that much. Money will out, as they say.

    • Donald
      March 31, 2014, 7:19 pm

      “There will never be a good reason for hating or indeed loving anyone because of their race or ancestry… It’s another question whether a dangerously anti-Semitic movement could arise without good reason. I must say that I don’t think it will in anything like the near future. When it comes to the Palestine question I do not fear ‘new anti-Semitism’ but the same old complacency and prevarication.”

      I agree with this. I think this post was overwrought and melodramatic. I couldn’t tell if the writer was talking about a new anti-semitism brought on by revulsion at Israel, or merely a loss of face. I think the latter is far more likely–people may someday look back at all the embarrassingly stupid hypocritical things that have been written in defense of Israel and ridicule the people who wrote and believed such things, but that’s happened to a lot of people over a lot of issues–white racism, anti-gay attitudes, pro-Iraq war attitudes, etc… But even that may not happen anytime soon. As you say, the same old complacency and prevarication may well prevail for quite a while longer.

      Of course, I write as an American. But is Europe really on the verge of a new anti-semitism? Seems unlikely. They already know what Israel is like. Americans may not know, but if they find out, I don’t anticipate the roof caving in.

  13. DaBakr
    March 30, 2014, 6:23 pm

    one hysterical Jew from GB and your all up in arms. I suppose you never read about the very assimilated German Jews talking about why and what they could do to staunch the hatred Europeans felt for them? Oh I know, I know, its all so different now. Jews that are Zionist are simply paranoid fanatics with no foundation whatsoever. And ‘now’ there is ‘really’ a reason to hate Jews that, like uh, never existed before. And the Jews have brought this on themselves. A truly novel idea from the so-called ‘Jewish’ and non-Jewish bds crowd.

    • amigo
      March 30, 2014, 6:50 pm

      “one hysterical Jew from GB and your all up in arms.”debaker

      Actually , you are the one up in arms.We are all enjoying the facts.

      You will find some more facts at the following link and it is about far more than one Hysterical Jew.

      link to ijv.org.uk

      Of course you will ignore it and stumble along head first into the quagmire that is zionism.

    • Annie Robbins
      March 30, 2014, 7:13 pm

      Jews talking about why and what they could do to staunch the hatred Europeans felt for them? Oh I know, I know, its all so different now.

      i assume you’re being facetious. or were jewish billionaires like adelson inserting themselves into the political process in nefarious ways back then too? anything we should know about?

    • American
      March 30, 2014, 8:35 pm

      DaBakr says:

      March 30, 2014 at 6:23 pm

      I suppose you never read about the very assimilated German Jews talking about why and what they could do to staunch the hatred Europeans felt for them?>>>>

      Well I have, I spent a entire rainy week reading thru the JTA achieves of news reports on Jews in Germany from 1923 to 1945 to satisfy my curiousity about exactly how things progressed in Germany and how all the various actors propelled everything forward.
      The German Jews were in the main loyal to Germany and tried to stem the tide of the nationalist parties propaganda directed at them….and made entreaties and concessions….but they made some big ‘strategic’ mistakes in trying to cope with it….mostly imo because of bad advice they got from Jewish big wigs that didn’t even live in Germany.
      Wouldnt have made any difference to the ending given the Nazis mentality.
      But some of the things they or again some Jews outside of Germany advised them to do made it easier for Hitler to demonize them and cost the Jews some support from the general public.
      And no, I am not referring the Jewish boycott of Germany incident, there were other moves that just weren’t smart politically or PR wise.

  14. justicewillprevail
    March 30, 2014, 6:28 pm

    When ordinary Americans realise that they are paying $1200 every year to every single Israeli, all of whom have free health care, subsidised housing and infrastructure, and a higher standard of living than many Americans – and in return get insulted, manipulated into endless wars and told to worship at the altar of grubby gangsters like Leiberman, Yahoo and co, who run a segregationist Jim Crow regime – then watch out for the blowback.

    • amigo
      March 30, 2014, 6:40 pm

      “When ordinary Americans realise that they are paying $1200 every year to every single Israeli, all of whom have free health care, subsidised housing and infrastructure, and a higher standard of living than many Americans”JWP

      You mean Israel,s Jews have all those privileges, Right?.
      I doubt if too many non Jewish Israelis wallow in such grand style.

  15. eljay
    March 30, 2014, 6:41 pm

    Self-righteously and with impunity, over the course of 60+ years, Zio-supremacist Jews have sown injustice, immorality, violence, hatred and death.

    One thing I find disturbing and sad about this is that when the blowback finally hits, Zio-supremacist Jews won’t be the only Jews to bear the brunt of it.

    What I find even more disturbing and sad is that Zio-supremacist Jews don’t seem to give a shit.

    • irishmoses
      March 30, 2014, 8:17 pm

      Dickerson3870:

      You got anything on “Masada Complex” in your library of nation state personality disorders?

  16. DICKERSON3870
    March 30, 2014, 6:43 pm

    RE: “How do you describe the feeling* that your life has been a lie? I think that the reason Jews are so reluctant to acknowledge what is clearly in front of them, is that shifting from ‘Israel is never wrong’ to ‘we have created a monster’ is such a terrifying realisation, self delusion** is the easier path.” ~ a British Jew

    * FROM BRITANNICA.COM [cognitive dissonance]

    cognitive dissonance – the mental conflict that occurs when beliefs or assumptions are contradicted by new information. The unease or tension that the conflict arouses in a person is relieved by one of several defensive maneuvers: the person rejects, explains away, or avoids the new information, persuades himself that no conflict really exists, reconciles the differences, or resorts to any other defensive means of preserving stability or order in his conception of the world and of himself. The concept, first introduced in the 1950s, has become a major point of discussion and research.

    SOURCE – link to britannica.com

    ** FROM WIKIPEDIA AS OF 1/28/14 [Defence mechanisms]:

    [EXCERPTS] . . . In Freudian psychoanalytic theory, defense mechanisms are psychological strategies brought into play [primarily ~ J.L.D.] by the unconscious mind[4] to manipulate, deny, or distort reality in order to defend against feelings of anxiety and unacceptable impulses to maintain one’s self schema [and to minimize cognitive dissonance - J.L.D.].[5]
    These processes that manipulate, deny, or distort reality may include the following: repression, or the burying of a painful feeling or thought from one’s awareness even though it may resurface in a symbolic form;[3] identification, incorporating an object or thought into oneself;[6] and rationalization, the justification of one’s behavior and motivations by substituting “good” acceptable reasons for the motivations.[3][7] Generally, repression is considered the basis for other defense mechanisms.[3]
    Healthy persons normally use different defences throughout life. An ego defence mechanism becomes pathological only when its persistent use leads to maladaptive behaviour such that the physical or mental health of the individual is adversely affected. The purpose of ego defence mechanisms is to protect the mind/self/ego from anxiety and/or social sanctions and/or to provide a refuge from a situation with which one cannot currently cope.[8]
    Defence mechanisms are unconscious coping mechanisms that reduce anxiety generated by threats from unacceptable impulses[i.e., a refuge from cognitive dissonance - J.L.D.]..[9]
    Defence mechanisms are unconscious coping mechanisms that reduce anxiety generated by threats from unacceptable impulses.[9] . . .
    . . . The list of defence mechanisms is huge and there is no theoretical consensus on the number of defence mechanisms. . .

    Vaillant’s categorization of defence mechanisms

    Level 1: Pathological
    The mechanisms on this level, when predominating, almost always are severely pathological. These six defences, in conjunction, permit one to effectively rearrange external experiences to eliminate the need to cope with reality. The pathological users of these mechanisms frequently appear irrational or insane to others. These are the “psychotic” defences, common in overt psychosis. However, they are normally found in dreams and throughout childhood as well.[22] They include:
    • Delusional projection: Delusions about external reality, usually of a persecutory nature.
    • Delusional Projection: Delusions about external reality, usually of a persecutory nature. . . [i.e., perceiving legitimate criticism of Israel's actions as "anti-Semitism" ~ J.L.D.]
    • Conversion: The expression of an intrapsychic conflict as a physical symptom; some examples include blindness, deafness, paralysis, or numbness. This phenomena is sometimes called hysteria.[23]
    • Denial: Refusal to accept external reality because it is too threatening; arguing against an anxiety-provoking stimulus by stating it doesn’t exist; resolution of emotional conflict and reduction of anxiety by refusing to perceive or consciously acknowledge the more unpleasant aspects of external reality.
    • Distortion: A gross reshaping of external reality to meet internal needs.
    • Splitting: A primitive defence. Negative and positive impulses are split off and unintegrated, frequently projected onto someone else. The defended individual segregates experiences into all-good and all-bad categories, with no room for ambiguity and ambivalence. When “splitting” is combined with “projecting”, the negative qualities that you unconsciously perceive yourself as possessing, you consciously attribute to another.[24]
    • Extreme projection: The blatant denial of a moral or psychological deficiency, which is perceived as a deficiency in another individual or group.
    • Superiority complex: A psychological defence mechanism in which a person’s feelings of superiority counter or conceal his or her feelings of inferiority. The inflated feelings of being superior, above the ordinary, and special, along with arrogance lead to difficulties at work and in relationships.
    • Inferiority complex: A behaviour that is displayed through a lack of self-worth, an increase of doubt and uncertainty, and feeling of not measuring up to society’s standards. Despotic control [HINT #1: a certain casino mogul, HINT #2: "Rosebud" ~ J.L.D.] is a compensation for tremendous feelings of inferiority, unworthiness, self-rejection and often feeling unlovable. . .

    SOURCE – link to en.wikipedia.org

  17. Scott
    March 30, 2014, 6:57 pm

    I then had a second conversation with him on the phone. A London professional, he said he had opened his eyes on these issues when he saw that Avigdor Lieberman was reaching out to Russia, evidently for protection at the United Nations if Israel loses the U.S., and thought, Game over.

    I find this a little odd. Natural that Lieberman should seek out ties with Russia– and there’s an historical precedent from the 40′s. It is a bit surprising that Israelis think China will bail them out, as Caroline Glick apparently does. Also natural that Putin should be relatively even-handed towards Israel, (sufficient to get Israel’s abstention in the UNSC vote). Putin’s Russian multicultural nationalist POV is relatively philosemitic–he has issued calls for “our Jews” to come home, which wouldn’t be a bad idea for Palestine certainly. In any case, puzzles me that this should be proverbial “last straw” , rather than something like the Gaza attack, or Israel’s non-stop racism. Why is Russia the big bogeyman?

    • seafoid
      March 31, 2014, 5:12 am

      It’ not that odd. Naftali Bennett was interviewed recently and said Israel can do without the US if necessary.
      The people in charge of Israel are nuts.

  18. puppies
    March 30, 2014, 7:04 pm

    Let’s give thanks for the presence of “the three numbskulls, Lieberman, Bennett and Netanyahu” for accelerating things somewhat.

    • seafoid
      March 31, 2014, 6:58 am

      Yes. Wonderful work, superb effort, faultless really.
      G-d is obviously working through them

  19. American
    March 30, 2014, 7:08 pm

    I think the writer may be panicking and exaggerating a bit to try to stir the Jews into some action.
    But my impression from everything I’ve seen and read by non hysterical reporters/commentators Europe (and it publics) is Europeans have reached the limit of their patience with Israel.
    Europe has a whole lot longer history with what they use to refer to as the Jewish Problem than the US has, then Hitler created another Jewish problem century and I think its just been going on too long for Europe and Europeans and they want a final resolution to all of it because its sucking up too much oxygen out of their own and world affairs.
    Which means now something has to be done about Israel.
    I don’t get the sense though that the public wants to make Jews wear a big red J armband to punish them for the situation.
    Of course the ADL and Netanyahu will tell them a holocaust is imminent and they must flee to Israel and then Israel will claim they need all the land from the river to the sea to house the Jews fleeing the coming holocaust.

    The Zionist need to be shut down but the problem with that is they have so infiltrated and bought so much of the politics and press that its impossible to get rid of all their both bought mouthpieces and their true believers in key sectors.
    The Zionist are like the kuzu weed I described, once it gets one root down, it starts spreading and you can’t control it by trimming it back, you have to literally tear it out by the roots and burn the foliage to ashes so no seeds or nodules are left to take root again.
    So to really ever end all of this would take some traumatic action.

  20. RudyM
    March 30, 2014, 7:13 pm

    I can’t help but welcome a vitriolic backlash against Israel and Zionism.

    And why has a twin of the missing Malaysian 777 been sitting in Tel Aviv since November?

    link to bollyn.com

  21. traintosiberia
    March 30, 2014, 7:14 pm

    link to tabletmag.com
    The entire industry based in Yale, Universitites in London, France,and Berlin are looking for an answer why Muslims in Arab countries hate the Jews and why Americans are catching up with Europeans in losing patience with Israel . But they are knowingly looking at the wrong place.

    • Les
      March 30, 2014, 8:49 pm

      I haven’t read anywhere that Palestinian Christians love their Jewish oppresssors.

  22. unverified__5ilf90kd
    March 30, 2014, 7:25 pm

    Yes, the crude activities of Israel, Bibi, Bennett, Edelson, and the rest of them certainly has created a lot of anti-Semitism in recent years. In this page today we are really saying this for the first time. We ourselves in this blog are actually facing up to the truth just like the British Jew above. He has opened out eyes. I am British but I am not a real Jew. Nonetheless I too have detected exactly what he is talking about but coming from a Jew it is all the more riveting. He is right and the obfuscation is finally lifting. I come from Northern Ireland where we only had a small number of Jews and there was never any anti-Semitism. Protestants and Catholics hated each other and themselves but never hated any Jews. In fact, the raw behavior of Israel and the Zionists over the last 30 years has angered the Irish and put them at the forefront of European BDS. It is not that we used to hate Jews because of anti-Semitism and now we have a reason to hate them, as expressed above. It is a genuine disgust for the monster that Israel and America have created and supported blindly.

    • puppies
      March 31, 2014, 12:47 pm

      @unverified – Any resurgence of Antisemitism in recent years remains unverified (just that same minimal level as always, possibly even reduced.) Taking the “Jewish Community” (as it defines itself) to task for its overwhelming support to the Zionist aggression is not “Antisemitism”: support for criminal activity, tribal loyalty and/or religiosity are neither real nor imaginable inborn traits.
      This doesn’t mean that there couldn’t be some such movement. After all, mob IQ is nothing to write home about –just look at racism in Azrael.

  23. bilal a
    March 30, 2014, 7:50 pm

    this seems entirely explanatory of recent and mid 20th century history:

    J-Streetophobia, and the U.S. Jewish right’s hatred for American Jews
    A new film was meant to be an expose of J Street. Instead, it sheds light on a message that marquee names on the U.S. Jewish right have for the vast majority of their fellow American Jews: You’re stupid. We hate you.
    link to haaretz.com

  24. tombishop
    March 30, 2014, 9:11 pm

    And this is how it played out in Philadelphia on Friday for Alan Dershowitz who got caught in the cross fire between right Zionists and left Zionists of J Street as reported by a pro-Zionist Philadelphia Daily News columnist.

    Jews boo Dershowitz
    link to philly.com

  25. Krauss
    March 30, 2014, 9:13 pm

    How do you describe the feeling that your life has been a lie? I think that the reason Jews are so reluctant to acknowledge what is clearly in front of them, is that shifting from ‘Israel is never wrong’ to ‘we have created a monster’ is such a terrifying realisation, self delusion is the easier path.

    Please hold my hand. I need you to talk me ‘down from the ledge’ because as I finally see the horror in front of us, I am petrified. I’m reaching out because I don’t know what to do and I hope that by explaining to you, how scary shifting your position on Israel is, I can help us establish a process for other Jews. I need help.

    Like Alcoholics Anonymous we need a place where Jews can safely process the ramifications of Israel. This is not a well written article, I’ve edited it many times, but please identify the confused structure, panic and paranoia as the experience all Jews go through when we realise what is in front of us.

    I am sure there is a clever word for people like me (a play on birthright, birthrefusal?) who were raised pro-Israel and now see that the only logical position, any sane person can take is that the USA was complicit in Israeli crimes against humanity. How can any normal person not be pro-Palestinian? How can any American not be outraged at what they funded, supported and received hatred for?

    I live in London in the UK, my father is Israeli and I was raised to support Israel. Pure hasbara. The atmosphere in Europe towards Israel was bad but is now toxic. If the USA shared the European view, the Jews would be deported out of Israel. Europe used to hate Jews because of anti-semitism, now they have a reason to hate us.

    No sane person can support Israel. Any sane person can form a conclusion that the organized American Jewish community, that I admire and love so much, has blinded Americans, given tax money to Israel, and put a bullseye on their back.

    My concern is not a reduction in support for Israel, but a vitriolic backlash from the American people, towards Israel, the Jews, the Adelsons of this world, AIPAC, etc. Support for Israel won’t go from 51% to 49%, it will fall off a cliff, with massive implications.

    While we sit and dither, the BDS and internet movements have hit a nerve. Students and academics are the only people ‘the lobby’ can’t buy or intimidate. Telling young people no, only makes them more determined. No open debate can support Israel. This is an albatross and will haunt us forever. President Obama has set up Israel perfectly and even peace now won’t suppress future criticisms and revisions. Israel is a stain on America’s history.

    While Jews communicate Israel in nuance, the public will say; we paid $100 billion for what? We vetoed war crimes for what? No way. Nothing is off limits. Nazi-esque reparations will be called for, investigations, sanctions, the truth is, I’m very scared.

    The EU has already announced sanctions against the settlements. Either Israel agrees to peace now, right now, today, or world condemnation will follow. The message should be it’s already too late.

    I apologise for what seems like a rambling, paranoid, overly personal article, but as I said, shifting positions on Israel is so hard and scary, there needs to be a bridge. Create the safe place today that says; Israel is moments away from International condemnation, an irreversible decline in its standing with the American public and pariah status, for Israel, Israelis and Jews.

    You can’t legally argue every Israeli position. Human rights trumps emotional attachment. Israel screwed America is a better argument than Israel is sort of a democracy. Israel waged wars, but lost the big battles. American Jews, this is wrong, you will not win in the court of public opinion. Israel will lose, try to salvage something.

    The urgency with which peace needs to happen cannot be over stressed. BDS is here. The truth is here.

    I’m writing this as a fellow Jew, I’m in my early 20s. I got a standard-issue Zionist upbringing. Most of my family is still very Zionist but I have stood my ground firmly in my opposition to it. It has strained relations with some relatives to the breaking point, but I am proud that the breaking point never occured. In part, I presume, because I can’t be acused of “betraying my people”. I’m an active shulgoer, I care deeply about Jewish culture and about the future of the Jewish people.

    That was the introduction of me, now let gets to the point.

    You are correct to have been asking about patience for your panic-laden tone. I don’t share the end if nigh attitude, primarily because Jews have survived horrors, famines, world wars and exterminations throughout history. We will get over Zionism if it will fail, which I believe it has(and irrevocably).

    The main issue is to decouple Zionism from Judaism. This, too, will not be an issue. The Haredim, who are the strictest adherents to Judaism are the least Zionist in many ways, certainly outside Israel.

    Nor has it been an issue for us for most of our history. Once the hysteria calms down, people will see this.

    One final word. I am loathe to endorse what is an analysis that is often hijacked by Likudniks to shut down any criticism of Israel, but it is a fact that some anti-Semites use Israel as a shield to hide behind while they bash Jews. The vast majority of critics of Israel are not bigots or hate Jews. But I am saying, that anti-Semitism exists as it has always existed and it is important not to lose our heads about this.

    More now than in generations, we need a cool, calm hand to sort through the maze that our community is in, and how to deal with the world.

    As for the EU, the EU doesn’t matter, which is what everyone from Washington to Beijing knows. But that shouldn’t prevent us from reaching the obvious conclusions about Zionism, that you have done.

    • Krauss
      March 30, 2014, 9:44 pm

      Final additions.

      We should recognize that the mood in diaspora Jewry is still, by and large, overwhelmingly pro-Zionist, because Zionism has been conflated with Judaism.

      To decouple these two will take a long time. It will be messy, but it is inevitable.

      The real question we should ask ourselves, will this have any impact on Israeli Jews? In the beginning, where are now, we can already say something with absolute clarity: no. It has not had any real impact and for many Israeli Jews is just a confirmation of the “weak” diaspora Jew.

      Over time, however, this will change. Israeli Jews will no longer be able to couch themselves on fairy tales and will come to understand the full extent of the consequences of a lost diaspora. But I doubt the entire diaspora will be lost. And this process will happen for generations. Israeli leadership may think that we have a window of a few decades to consolidate(read: ethnic cleansing, permanent separation) before we lost the diaspora. And once we do, we won’t suffer because there is nothing to take from us anymore. We may then begin the slow process of regaining them.

      In addition, not all colonial grabs is condemned indefinitely. Look at China’s de facto annexation of Tibet. It is often brought up by Likudniks and for a good reason. The world has all but stopped talking about Tibet as China has grown so powerful that it cannot be opposed.

      Of course, Jews, contrary to popular perception, are not that powerful. However, Israel is in a different situation than South Africa or Algeria, in that it has a much larger share of the demography. At worst it is 50/50 right now and the situation is likely to only very gradually change and may indeed reverse in a decade from now or so as Haredi birthrites continue and Arab birthrates inside Israel and the West Bank continue to fall.

      What I am trying to tell you is this: if you think that the diaspora can turn this around, even if you have a solid anti-Zionist concensus, I think you just have to adjust yourself to the fact that we matter less than many think. And that Israel may indeed continue its oppression for much longer than either South Africa or Algeria due to demographics and the fact that Israel, unlike those regimes, is not nearly as dependent on its oppressed population. In fact, if they all went away, Israel would be happy. If South Africa lost its black population, the state would be finished, or at least would lose 90% of its working population.

      I personally think we will see the decoupling of Israeli and diaspora Jewry in the coming decades; indeed, this is already happening. To explain this to the rest of the world will take time and patience, in large part because the rest of the world has been told for decades that Zionism = Judaism. People need time to recalibrate.

      I think once this decoupling is firmly made, you will no longer be as panicked, because you, on some level, still buy the Zionism = Judaism propaganda we were all fed as children. And the rest of the world will no longer buy this either.

      I still think and hope for a one state solution. And it is possible.
      And if it isn’t, life goes on. Jews will continue to thrive and go on to great things. Zionism’s fate is, ultimately, not a major event in the history of thousands years.

      • MRW
        March 31, 2014, 6:58 am

        I personally think we will see the decoupling of Israeli and diaspora Jewry in the coming decades

        You don’t have decades, Krauss.

      • lysias
        March 31, 2014, 5:41 pm

        If Israel loses the support of diaspora (including American) Jews, will U.S. support of Israel continue? If it does not, can Israel survive?

        And, if Israel fears it will not survive, will it then use its nukes? That would, I think, constitute a major historical event.

    • irishmoses
      March 30, 2014, 10:32 pm

      “One final word. I am loathe to endorse what is an analysis that is often hijacked by Likudniks to shut down any criticism of Israel, but it is a fact that some anti-Semites use Israel as a shield to hide behind while they bash Jews. The vast majority of critics of Israel are not bigots or hate Jews. But I am saying, that anti-Semitism exists as it has always existed and it is important not to lose our heads about this.”

      Krauss, I think yours is an accurate statement. Evidence of this is seen in how quickly the David Dukes pick up on and use valid arguments against Israel and Zionism crafted by people who are not antisemites. Sometimes it may be hard to tell if someone is an antisemite garbed in clever, articulate language masked as valid criticism of the excesses of Zionism and Israel. But, I think Jews have to be very leery of using this as a convenient excuse for denying the validity of the anti-Zionist, anti-Likudnik, anti-AIPAC criticism. It’s an easy and convenient way to avoid taking responsibility for cleaning up the mess some Jews have created for most Jews.

    • puppies
      March 31, 2014, 12:10 am

      Krauss – Confirming all my surmises: “I’m in my early 20s. I got a standard-issue Zionist upbringing. Most of my family is still very Zionist but I have stood my ground firmly in my opposition to it. It has strained relations with some relatives to the breaking point, but I am proud that the breaking point never occured. In part, I presume, because I can’t be accused of “betraying my people”. I’m an active shulgoer, I care deeply about Jewish culture and about the future of the Jewish people.”
      To summarize, you were raised as a Zionist, could not break with it for fear of alienating parents and other tribals, seem not to be devout but just attending church out of tribal loyalty, are a nationalist, presumably Ashkenaze, have never felt the freedom of cutting that idiotic umbilical chord, and way too young to realize that vicious attacks on people you call “Antisemitic” and “Holocaust deniers” must necessarily be supported by very solid evidence.

      • Philip Weiss
        March 31, 2014, 9:35 am

        vicious anatomist, what’s your umbilical?

      • puppies
        March 31, 2014, 9:57 am

        @Philip – How about we leave secondary things for later and first insist on having clear evidence presented and discussed whenever someone feels like tossing around accusations of “Antisemitism” and “Holocaust denial”? Personally I couldn’t care less, but in the society we live in, them’s fighting words and lead to excommunication, job loss, etc. At least don’t take down posts inviting those hit-and-run smearers to reveal what their minds are imagining under such labels; it may help the rest to differentiate between discrimination for innate and acquired stuff, too.

      • Donald
        March 31, 2014, 11:30 pm

        “To summarize, you were raised as a Zionist, could not break with it for fear of alienating parents and other tribals,”

        That was a weird misreading. He specifically said he has taken a stand against Zionism, which has strained his family relationships, but not broken them and he’s proud of that. Good for him. Why do you object to someone wanting to maintain ties with loved ones?

        And what’s wrong with his being a shulgoer and caring about his culture? Being in favor of Palestinian human rights doesn’t mean one has to embark on a crusade against all forms of cultural identity.

      • puppies
        April 1, 2014, 1:49 am

        @Donald – Because, right or wrong, I correlate the fact of his hallucinating about “Antisemites” and “Holocaust deniers” under every chair precisely to his not having broken his tribal ties. If some “cultural identity” has been statistically pre-empted by the politics of its overwhelming majority, everything there is toxic, like ethnocentric political culture elements in this case. If it is your *loved ones (as you say it yourself) you are in war with, you are in in for a lot of confusion. Serious studies of just this question are available, by the way, from the Spanish and the Greek civil wars. Also, I know what it has done to parts of my own family.

  26. ThorsteinVeblen2012
    March 30, 2014, 9:21 pm

    When will the day come when your AIPAC membership will be equated having belonged to the German American Bund?

  27. JeffB
    March 30, 2014, 10:17 pm

    So here are the numbers in the real world.

    USA: gallop, Pew.

    Europe excluding the left is pretty much balanced both moderates and rightists are fairly split between Palestinians and Israelis: link to pewglobal.org
    and the left while bad is only 2::1 against. So obviously people can support Israel even over there.

    So your friend is just dead wrong on the data. As far as it falling off a cliff. What sorts of issues in terms of public opinion tend to have instant 50+ percentage point shifts in public opinion? I’m having a hard time thinking of any.

    • traintosiberia
      March 31, 2014, 10:49 am

      Don’t quote Pew gallop poll,when Pew figures go south for Jewish people,first thing one hears is how antisemitism is raising its head again instead of hearing of any self reflection or plan to change the direction or discussion about understanding the reason for the drop in the support for the Israeli state. Then one hears the explanation how Muslim immigration is inserting their views in politics and in the colleges Next come legislation in France criminalizing criticism of a Israel and sprouting ofCampus Watch in US.

    • American
      March 31, 2014, 11:58 am

      ” As far as it falling off a cliff. What sorts of issues in terms of public opinion tend to have instant 50+ percentage point shifts in public opinion? I’m having a hard time thinking of any.”…jeffb

      You need to study up more on how revolutions, both peaceful and violent begin.
      One expert on this is Crane Brinton, cant remember the title of his book on this but look it up.
      When something ‘ flips’ it is like ‘falling off a cliff’ because its unexpected.
      Even though it has been percolating under or just barely on the surface for a while.
      Whether the flip is peaceful as in a political revolution or violent, as frustrations accumulate some last straw gets dropped on the people’s complaints or dissatisfaction and ‘lines are drawn’ and its off to the races from there.

      • JeffB
        April 1, 2014, 10:05 am

        @American

        Anatomy of Revolution. And if you want to use Crane Brinton’s model you would need a group of radicals that can’t satisfy moderates. On Israel policy do you see any evidence that moderates aren’t satisfied or can’t be satisfied with moderate changes in direction? I don’t see him as helping your case rather the moment you look at what’s required he gives criteria which the BDS group can’t meet. The moderates in the USA don’t care about I/P policy.

  28. dbroncos
    March 31, 2014, 12:47 am

    Phil has said more than once that American Jews will decide the fate of American support for Israel. The way things look right now I agree with him. One of the best places to find Americans who are interested in and passionate about Israel is among Jews. Many of Israel’s most stout critics were once committed Zionists and when they crossed the street they brought their passion with them. I contrast the commitment and determination of these former Zionist Jews to the ambivalent non Jews I’ve talked to about I/P. It’s not difficult to convince non Jews of the injustice of Israel’s crimes – and watch them stare back with a nod and a look of “yea, it’s a shame, but its not my problem”.

    The most moving and passionate advocates for justice in Palestine are Arab Americans. I get misty when I see Arab students on American college campuses leading the charge for I/P. They’re the most important members of the I/P cause. But the necessary cash for maintaining the status quo is in the Jewish American communitinty. That’s where this battle will be won.

    • MRW
      March 31, 2014, 7:01 am

      @dbroncos,

      Cash or no cash, that Vassar crowd is where it’s going.

  29. dbroncos
    March 31, 2014, 1:02 am

    To Anonymous Brittish Jew

    If you are not already doing so I recommend that you get involved with a local I/P advocacy group. It beats sitting at home and wringing your hands. You may be surprised at how encouraging it can be to meet local advocates who are fellow travelers, with whom you can make new friendships and work towards a common goal of justice. I can think of no better way to address the anxiety and isolation you feel about I/P.

    • seafoid
      March 31, 2014, 9:19 am

      If I were Jewish I would be worried for the weaker sections of Israeli Jewish society. Especially the Orthodox.
      The failure of bigoted intransigence to deal with modernity and the demands of justice did not work out very well for poor Protestants in Northern Ireland.

      link to irishtimes.com

      “The stark reality behind this flurry of statistics – and there are more – is that the promises of “a better life for all” consequent on a “peace dividend” have not materialised – despite globe-trotting ministerial missions to, last year alone, the US, Canada, Australia, China and other lands of advertised investment potential
      .
      The fact that the relatively poor have done less well from the settlement than the relatively rich has to be seen in the context of poor areas having borne the brunt of the Troubles and on that ground alone might be said to have earned the major share of the promised bonanza. The opposite has happened.
      What benefits the agreement has brought have had to do with the morale of communities rather than money in family coffers. And on this score – the loyalists are right – the Catholics have done better than the Protestants. It is even reported that Larne Catholics are holding their heads up these days.

      Naught for your comfort
      But irrespective of religion, if you are a school-leaver, particularly if you have left school without star grades, you will find naught for your comfort in the prospect ahead.
      If you are a teenager or in your 20s on the Falls or the Shankill, the Brandywell or the village of Newbuildings outside Derry, you might react with something approaching rage when you are told again to settle down, don’t cause trouble, don’t undermine the peace.
      If you do behave disruptively, expect to be denounced as a dissident or a thug by the element who appear to have done very well from the Belfast Agreement and who are presented on television every time you turn it on as the heroes of the hour who by hard work and moving on have set the world to rights for you.”

      • Walid
        March 31, 2014, 10:22 am

        seafoid, your article threw a monkey wrench at my view of NI. I had the misconception that the underdogs had been the Catholics and the better off and educated group that controlled just about everything had been the Protestants, probably because of the British. The article is saying that for either religious group, education is the determining factor but I still got the feeling that even with an equal education, the Protestants are still having to come from behind.

      • seafoid
        March 31, 2014, 10:34 am

        Walid

        The Catholics WERE the underdogs because the Protestants gave jobs to their people and Catholics were excluded for the process and given inferior housing. Since the 1960s however , partly due to the efforts of the British Government, Catholics have invested far more time in education – across all social classes.
        The formerly Protestant only industries of shipbuilding and linen collapsed in the 70s and now there are no jobs for non educated Protestant working class kids.

        It is a real mess. The weaker Protestants were shafted by their middle class co religionists.

        Same thing will happen in Israel, I bet.

        The other big insight for me from Northern Ireland is what happens to the settler colonial identity when they lose power. Northern Ireland Protestants have a huge problem now defining their common identity and they have been in the area for over 400 years. They used to define themselves based on loyalty to the Queen, Britishness and the sacrifices of their people at the Somme in 1916 but these are fairly useless now.

      • Walid
        March 31, 2014, 4:21 pm

        “The Catholics WERE the underdogs because the Protestants gave jobs to their people and Catholics were excluded for the process and given inferior housing.”

        seafoid, those jobs being given to Protestants, weren’t these actually given out by the British themselves or by their Protestant wards but under their watchful eye?

      • gamal
        April 1, 2014, 12:21 am

        The foot soldiers of the Protestant ascendency (sorry Harry) in NI were drawn from the extensive working class Protestant community.

        While the IRA volunteers were given a more or less Marxist political education and were inculcated with a fairly severe revolutionary discipline ( for an example see this BBC documentary about the H block protests and compare and contrast the IRA prisoners with the Protestant para-military prisoners ) Johny ‘Mad Dog’ Adair became their poster boy.

        link to youtu.be

        and re Adair
        link to amazon.com

      • seafoid
        April 1, 2014, 2:29 am

        Walid

        At the time pre 1969 Northern Ireland had self rule and its own Parliament outside Belfast so most of the decisions were made by the local Protestants. It was “a Protestant State for a Protestant people”.
        Very like Disneyland really.
        They just couldn’t stop and the whole thing fell over.

        link to virtualmethodist.blogspot.ch

        ” You coasted along
        To larger houses, gadgets, more machines
        To golf and weekend bungalows,
        Caravans when the children were small,
        the Mediterranean, later, with the wife.

        You did not go to Church often,
        Weddings were special;
        But you kept your name on the books
        Against eventualities;
        And the parson called, or the curate.

        You showed a sense of responsibility,
        With subscriptions to worthwhile causes
        And service in voluntary organisations;
        And, anyhow, this did the business no harm,
        No harm at all.
        Relations were improving. A good
        useful life. You coasted along.

        You even had a friend of two of the other sort,
        Coasting too: your ways ran parallel.
        Their children and yours seldom met, though,
        Being at different schools.
        You visited each other, decent folk with a sense
        Of humour. Introduced, even, to
        One of their clergy. And then you smiled
        In the looking-glass, admiring, a
        Little moved by, your broadmindedness.
        Your father would never have known
        One of them. Come to think of it,
        When you were young, your own home was never
        Visited by one of the other sort.

        Relations were improving. The annual processions
        began to look rather like folk-festivals.

        When that noisy preacher started,
        he seemed old-fashioned, a survival.
        Later you remarked on his vehemence,
        a bit on the rough side.
        But you said, admit, you said in the club,
        ‘You know, there’s something in what he says’.

        And you who seldom had time to read a book,
        what with reports and the colour-supplements,
        denounced censorship.
        And you who never had an adventurous thought
        were positive that the church of the other sort
        vetoes thought.
        And you who simply put up with marriage
        for the children’s sake, deplored
        the attitude of the other sort
        to divorce.
        You coasted along.
        And all the time, though you never noticed,
        The old lies festered;
        the ignorant became more thoroughly infected;
        there were gains, of course;
        you never saw any go barefoot.

        The government permanent, sustained
        by the regular plebiscites of loyalty.
        You always voted but never
        put a sticker on your car;
        a card in the window
        would not have been seen from the street.
        Faces changed on posters, names too, often,
        but the same families, the same class of people.
        A Minister once called you by your first name.
        You coasted along
        and the sores supperated and spread.

        Now the fever is high and raging;
        Who would have guessed it, coasting along?
        The ignorant-sick thresh about in delirium
        And tear at the scabs with dirty finger-nails.
        The cloud of infection hangs over the city,
        A quick change of wind and it
        Might spill over the leafy suburbs.
        You coasted along.”

        And it is still a mess.

      • Walid
        April 1, 2014, 3:53 am

        You’re right, the description is a lot like Israel today only the infection is all over the country; in fact, the country is the infection. This week, al-Mayadeen TVs running daily reports on life under the occupation on the Golan. The Syrians still living there are downright miserable under the Israeli boot and not at all happy as Israel would have everyone believe. With 5-star hotels already built or about to be built, this is where Israel is trying to setup its own Jewish Disneyland. The word “resistance” is starting to be in the air for the first time in 40 years.

    • Pixel
      April 1, 2014, 4:53 am

      @dbroncos To Anonymous Brittish Jew…

      +1

  30. yonah fredman
    March 31, 2014, 5:05 am

    As far as having an effect on American Jewish supporters of Israel this anonymous Brit will not have much effect. Even if he was calm and level headed and out with his name, instead of alarmed, disheveled and anonymous, he would have a tough time getting a hearing. But he is alarmed and disheveled..

    Alarmed and disheveled: “shifting from ‘Israel is never wrong’ to ‘we have created a monster’ is such a terrifying realisation, self delusion is the easier path.”

    This is the voice of a child of an Israeli father, (stereotypical Israeli) talking in extremes. It is not possible that there is any other shift rather than from flawless Israel to perfidious Israel. Imperfect Israel that has a purpose and a role to play in the future? Forget about it. This addled mind does not handle nuance. The end is near. Code red. The sky is falling. War of ideas? Ha! Don’t even think about it.

    “I was raised to support Israel. Pure hasbara.”
    Of course, pure hasbara. Everything is pure to this dude. Pure flawless Israel before. Pure monstrous Israel now. Pure hasbara. Everything is pure.

    “This is an albatross and will haunt us forever. ” Forever. Same adolescent attitude and rhetoric.

    If Mr. Anonymous Brit really is interested in creating a space for those who are shifting their opinions on Israel and adjusting to the fears that the future instills in them, he ought to calm down and think. 12 Step programs would never approve of such unhinged thinking. One day at a time. One step at a time.

    This guy helps nobody. I don’t see how this is useful. This is certainly not a war of ideas. Assuming that this guy is not like this 365 days a year, maybe he will get back to Phil when he has calmed down and can say something useful. Maybe. Until then, this is not useful. Maybe encouragement to those who hate Israel, but the stated intended audience is certainly not helped in any way.

    • talknic
      March 31, 2014, 7:01 am

      yonah fredman //”Alarmed and disheveled: “shifting from ‘Israel is never wrong’ to ‘we have created a monster’ is such a terrifying realisation, self delusion is the easier path.”//

      Indeed it is. Once one gets a glimpse thru the myths, propaganda, methods and level of spin, mis-information and out right lies told to justify the illegal usurping of non-Jews of Palestine and realizes one has been fed bullsh*t by the Zionist expansionistas, it takes a while to gather one’s senses and reassemble ones reality to sift thru and take into account all the utter crap the Zionist Movement has shovelled into into people’s minds for generations.

      Retreating into denial is usually the first reaction. Then anger at having been deceived by people who’re supposedly caring towards Jews and whose reactions to Jewish folk who’re dismayed at the level of contempt Zionist apologists have for the basic tenets of Judaism clearly show there is only one aim. A Greater Israel at any cost and woe betide anyone or anything that gets in the way.

      Then dealing with the false accusations of self hated, antisemitism and the ostracism so commonly exercised on those who dare question, let alone stand up and challenge with hard facts against extremist reactions such as your own response.

      “This guy helps nobody. “

      The truth never helped any Zionist colonizer. Israel’s dogged intransigence has dug a deep illegal black hole from which it cannot now legally escape without a plea bargain negotiated with the Palestinians. But as usual it ignores the opportunities the world community has afforded it and continues on its pathologically insane path.

    • puppies
      March 31, 2014, 9:37 am

      @Friedman – “I don’t see how this is useful.”
      Others do, don’t worry. It’s precisely because you don’t see that you are fighting a losing battle.

      • yonah fredman
        March 31, 2014, 11:49 pm

        The reaction of yourself, oh puppies, is proof that this is tailor made for the haters of Israel and somehow I got the impression that Mr. Anonymous Brit was addressing Jewish people who were not so long ago supporters of Israel. If he meant it to give you strength, then he served his purpose. If he was proposing a safe place for reassessment by past tense Zionists, he is totally useless.

      • puppies
        April 1, 2014, 1:34 am

        @Friedman – As I said, that’s something you can’t see by definition; if you could see it you wouldn’t be who you are. The best answer is in a post down a couple from this one, by the brilliant Avigail Abarbanel. I cannot know if she intends her book title in the way I interpret it, but surely “Beyond Tribal Loyalties” is where anyone defecting from Zionism has to go. PDQ. Family and friendship cannot stand the stress of war; the numerically weaker are at risk. This is not a “war of ideas”.

    • seafoid
      April 1, 2014, 3:19 am

      “Even if he was calm and level headed and out with his name, instead of alarmed, disheveled and anonymous, he would have a tough time getting a hearing. But he is alarmed and disheveled.. ”

      Do you need to wait until the suits start panicking for proof ?

    • Pixel
      April 1, 2014, 5:29 am

      “12 Step programs would never approve of such unhinged thinking.”

      You haven’t called your sponsor in awhile, have you?

      You know nobody walks into 12-step programs, we crawl in on our hands and knees with our thinking — completely — unhinged.

      LOL :o)

  31. concernedhuman
    March 31, 2014, 8:25 am

    That is because of the role played by the media in US. The mian stream media in US says every thing that Israel does is right and what ever palestinians do is WRONG .

    But in EU and other countries of the world its a different story .

  32. hophmi
    March 31, 2014, 8:25 am

    Uh-huh. Maybe it’s a false flag, lol.

    Anyway, does this mean that you accept that antisemitism in Europe is a serious problem after denying it? Does it mean that you now accept that pro-Palestinian activism has antisemitic implications?

    There is NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER a reason to hate Jews or anyone else. Never. And the correct thing to do is to condemn this hatred. NOW.

    Polling data in the US totally vitiates this guy’s POV. The US is different. It doesn’t accept the European way of looking of these things, and the racism it implies.

    And as I’ve said many times before, you’re mixing up the cause and effect. Sheldon Adelson isn’t doing anything secret. He can do what he does because supporting Israel in this sort of blind way has become a tenet of Republican Party politics, much like Second Amendment rights, never ending tax cuts, etc. If the GOP didn’t care, Adelson wouldn’t be able to do what he does. Even if there was no Adelson, you’d still end up with a pro-Israel GOP candidate because of the power of Christian evangelicals in the primaries.

    And as I’ve said before, Adelson is not the only big GOP donor. The Koch Brothers are probably much more important.

    So you can create these bogeymen, but rational people will always see right through stuff like this.

  33. Avigail Abarbanel
    March 31, 2014, 8:33 am

    Philip, I would like to send this person a copy of my book Beyond Tribal Loyalties as a way of offering support. Can you help?

  34. pabelmont
    March 31, 2014, 9:49 am

    I don’t see the EU press, hear its radio, see its TV. I don’t listen to the conversations in coffee shops, around the water cooler.

    I wish I did. PHIL: Is there any way to bring this stuff to USA? Can your mysterious correspondent help? Please ask.

    Americans should know what other people think (on a wide range of topics: but I/P is surely one of them). We also need to know how what Chomsky called “Manufacture of Consent” works in USA and how it works in EU. Sometimes Public Opinion is manufactured, sometimes it is (in a way) suppressed, as information is manufactured (advertising, propaganda, lies, emphases) or suppressed (no news at all on topic).

    We need to know how we in USA are being manipulated and how EU folks are being manipulated. But w3e also need to know what Public Opinion is, manufactured or not.

    Of course we’d prefer the manipulation (?) to be of this sort: Here’s the true information, make up your own mind.

    How do you describe the feeling that your life has been a lie? I think that the reason Jews are so reluctant to acknowledge what is clearly in front of them, is that shifting from ‘Israel is never wrong’ to ‘we have created a monster’ is such a terrifying realisation, self delusion is the easier path.

    Please hold my hand. I need you to talk me ‘down from the ledge’ because as I finally see the horror in front of us, I am petrified. I’m reaching out because I don’t know what to do and I hope that by explaining to you, how scary shifting your position on Israel is, I can help us establish a process for other Jews. I need help.

    The correspondent from EU is fearful of a savage over-the-cliff shift in Public Opinion (and can government action be far behind? Well, yes, but how far?) in which support for Israel, sympathy for Jews, etc., drops precipitously. I have no way to measure the accuracy of this fear. It may be irrational (on the facts the correspondent experiences). Or it may be entirely rational.

    If he/she is right, then it is clear (to me) that circling the wagons is NOT the right way for Jews, Liberals, Liberal Zionists (?), or hard-right-Zionists to go. Rather they must join the morality of “the people” and quickly show themselves to be on the side of morality rather than on the side of “monsters”. Of course, I’ve wanted Jews to do this for a long time: I regard myself as Jew (others might not), and I want Jews to have a “good name”; supporting the monstrosity of Israel cannot, it seems to me, be the way to get a good name. A “name for power”, sure, as long as the power lasts, but not a “good name”.

    And didn’t an awful lot of 19th century and 20th century antisemitism arise from a sense — whether right or wrong, whether accurate or exaggerated — that Jews had aided “power”, been tools of “power”, ultimately BECOME “power” themselves (e.g., the so well known “Jewish Bankers” before 1945) and thus marvelously objectionable?

    So, I agree with the correspondent that the path trod by American Jews is (or ought to be) a path over a very dangerous cliff — dangerous, initially, to Palestinians, but dangerous ultimately to American Jews. The Jewish sense of invincibility may be the most odious feeling ever — because it allows horrible immorality, here called monstrousness, and because it allows those who feel that way to ignore the possibility and likelihood of pushback.

    Thanks for this article.

  35. piotr
    March 31, 2014, 11:40 am

    I think that the British Jew was raised with Zionist paranoia with a consolation point “our cause is just, the important people see it, so we will prevail”. If your remove “our cause is just” than we see a house build from cards.

    Of course, it is not entirely correct because the Zionist paranoia is built on a huge exaggeration. Anti-semitism is but one of many “anti-isms”, and while it indeed took a disastrous turn with Nazism where that was ascendant for a historically brief period, it was more of an aberration than a rule. Thus precipitous decline of the position of Israel and Jews in the diaspora is not likely, yes, a dam is crumbling but there is no large lake on the other side.

    That said, the complacency of Zionists (which is build on a strange combination of complacency and paranoia) is misplaced as well. What we see in USA is the evolution of “support of Israel” toward “a cultural issue”. In USA this means a right wing nutty issue. Historically, those issues do not fare well. It is “outside the mainstream” to be frankly racist. Frank homophobia was used to replace it, and not it is in fast decline mode, gay marriage getting legal in one state after another, and it is hard to remember that even 10 years ago it was a good issue to mobilize the right wing “base”.

    Also, when polls ask “do you support Israel”, the “yes” answers do not mean “in whatever it does now and whatever it will do later”. Zionists try to straddle the divide between liberals and wingnuts, so far successfully, but it is such a contradictory feat that I do not see that it can last long. To keep PEPs peppy we have pinkwashing, and to keep wingnuts happy, we have “Judeo-Christian civilization and Biblical promises”. If you are so Biblical, why do you suffer sodomites to live proudly? And if you are so progressive, what do you do with such anti-progressive chaps like Adelson?

    • irishmoses
      March 31, 2014, 12:29 pm

      Great comment Piotr.

      • Ellen
        March 31, 2014, 7:54 pm

        yes, Piotr makes some great and thoughtful comments. I also came away from the letter written by an anonymous British citizen, who is Jewish, that he/she may be more greatly motivated by self concern and paranoia than simply what is right and human.

        My concern is not a reduction in support for Israel, but a vitriolic backlash from the American people, towards Israel, the Jews….

        This writer states flatly and right up front that no sane person can support Israel. I take that to mean no sane person can support Israeli policies and the Zionist project.

        Yet what motivation has dominance: rejection of crimes and support of a people repressed under the Zionist fantasies, OR fear of backlash against Jews?

        Jewish people are not the Zionist project, not the Israeli government, not the occupation industry. Sane people everywhere understand that.

        This writer seems to conflate Jews and Zionism and first project paranoia.

        Who really cares about this state or that state, rejection or not of a group, blah blah. That is irrelevant. What is relevant is concern with the crimes of an enterprise and state over a people.

    • yonah fredman
      March 31, 2014, 11:37 pm

      piotr- you wrote : “Zionist paranoia is built on a huge exaggeration. Anti-semitism is but one of many “anti-isms”, and while it indeed took a disastrous turn with Nazism where that was ascendant for a historically brief period, it was more of an aberration than a rule.”

      As they say, even paranoids have enemies, but I am not sure that this “joke” “allows” the use of the word paranoia without painting you as one such enemy.

      I take it that you are a European white. As such, and given your intelligence, I am sure you are aware that the most relevant anti-ism of the years 1881 to 1929 (I stop before the ascendancy of Nazism but not before its birth) in white Europe was anti Semitism. It was a major factor in the Russian Revolution and a major mover of men and minds in France during Dreyfuss and everywhere in the aftermath of WWI. It may be that in the aftermath of WWII it is only one of many anti-ism’s but from 1881 to 1945 it was the major anti-ism of Europe and to dismiss it as an aberration either paints you as ignorant of pre 1945 European history or else as someone for whom that period of history, which included the Russian revolution, World War I and World War II, is merely weird or a type of pre history that is as relevant as the dinosaurs. To paint it as super relevant as the only relevant fact of human history til the present I admit is an exaggeration. But to dismiss it as an aberration seems to be somewhat akin to calling history bunk. (A Henry Ford quote, I believe.)

      • piotr
        April 1, 2014, 12:21 pm

        It is only the lens of “history written for Jews” that Dreyfus affair was the most important event in the French history of the respective decade , or that the most important factors driving the revolutions can be omitted etc.

      • lysias
        April 2, 2014, 6:56 pm

        I don’t think you have to be looking at French history through a Jewish lens to regard the Dreyfus affair as extremely important, probably the most important event in France in that decade (with the possible exception of the alliance with Russia, an event with which it was related): it overturned French politics, brought to power, in place of conservatives, liberals (in the European sense) with a strong anticlerical bent, and discredited the French right, church, and army.

  36. W.Jones
    March 31, 2014, 5:50 pm

    I don’t see how there would realistically be some kind of major anti-Jewish backlash, if that is what he is worried about. The US is not and would not be at war with the Israeli State or Jews by mere virtue of becoming aware of the system of discrimination imposed on native people in the Holy Land.

    What would happen is people would recognize a system of discrimination existing such as has occurred in many other places. Americans came to oppose Jim Crow and discrimination in South Africa, but they were far from enacting discriminatory rules against southern US whites or white US South Africans. People are aware enough of the distinction between a discriminatory foreign government and people who happen to be of the same nationality in the US. In the US there has been some discrimination against Muslims, but this comes from the national security issues since 2001, and would not exist without it.

    Phil’s British acquaintance is worried about people becoming aware of discrimination in the Israeli state and then creating discrimination themselves, but it doesn’t work that way. The kind of people who perform discrimination are not the same people who would care about human rights abuses in another country. As you may have noticed, intolerant groups in Europe tend to sympathize with discrimination in the Israeli state, a strange alliance.

    The way for Phil’s colleague to deal with this is not to have some kind of fear, but rather to inform other people about it so that we can work together to end systems of discrimination.

    • W.Jones
      March 31, 2014, 6:04 pm

      A reassuring idea for progressives like Phil’s friend can be the understanding that their work is against discrimination worldwide, even when they work against it in any country. For this, one can note the right wing alliances between the Israeli State and right wing forces in Europe going back to WWII, if not earlier. The scholar Lenni Brenner has written about supportive agreements between the Israeli State’s predecessors and the German and Italian governments in that era, and nowadays you can see a similar counterintuitive support for Ukrainian neo-Nazis. So anyone who is progressive can have a sense of confidence that by opposing a discriminatory system in one region they indirectly work against it in another.

      The driving morality for progressive advocates in all these cases is a belief in human rights and equality, and the end result can only be a strengthening of both. The whole foundation of the human rights campaign for Palestinians is a belief in equality, and so to further this campaign means to emphasize in the minds of our audience those very beliefs, which in turn raise people up from discrimination in general, especially because we are pointing to one of the largest ongoing cases of a people’s suffering in the world today.

      Rather than merely focusing on past events and leaving students with a feeling of helplessness, the effort to protect Palestinians’ rights energizes people in the real world so that it can truly be a living movement against inequality wherever we find it.

      • JeffB
        April 1, 2014, 10:30 pm

        @W.Jones

        The problem with the theory of ties between Israel and the pre-WWII right is that these ties are mostly non-existant. Everyone talks to everyone. But Zionist movement was part of the Eastern European socialism with far stronger ties to Communism than Fascist governments during the 1930s. The fascist movements were anti-Zionist, which is not to say some fascist elements didn’t like the idea of voluntary Jewish migration but none of them supported Zionism.

        Israel’s close ties to the European right come out of the European left adopting an anti-colonialist view towards Israel starting after 1967 and waxing and waning since them. The most recent wave being after 9/11 when Israel was egging the Americans on in Iraq and using the post 9/11 situation and to shatter the PA. Israel has been courting the right particularly in France where the domestic Jewish population flipped from left to right fleeing new-Antisemitism from the left.

      • Hostage
        April 2, 2014, 6:41 pm

        The fascist movements were anti-Zionist, which is not to say some fascist elements didn’t like the idea of voluntary Jewish migration but none of them supported Zionism.

        That’s a complete crock of shit. The Zionist Organization and the Third Reich were members of a legal business partnership that was entrenched in German currency control and other statutes in order to facilitate Jewish emigration. The Nuremberg laws supported the aims of the Zionist movement to prevent assimilation, prevent intermarriages, and preserve the purity of the Jewish and German peoples.

      • JeffB
        April 2, 2014, 8:08 pm

        @Hostage –

        The Zionist movement has never supported using violence and force against Jews to prevent assimilation or intermarriage. Israelis regularly go to Cyprus to marry and Israel recognizes those marriages as valid.

        As for a German partnership. If there had been a Nazi supported migration to Palestine there wouldn’t have been a holocaust. So no they weren’t working together.

      • lysias
        April 2, 2014, 6:51 pm

        From Wikipedia entry on Betar Naval Academy in Civitavecchia, Italy in the 1930′s:

        Italy was a source of ideological, historical and cultural inspiration for the Zionist Revisionists of the 1920s and 1930s.[3] The country under Mussolini was seen as a historical reminder of the roots of the Jewish people and as a contemporary example of a once glorious culture reclaiming its role in the world through the affirmation of power and national pride.[3]

        . . .

        In 1933 the Italian foreign ministry (Mussolini was also foreign minister) began circulating internal policy documents arguing that a strong Jewish state would be in Italy’s best interests.[8]

        Although Jabotinsky had still not been able to arrange a meeting with Mussolini it became clear that the Italian government did view the Revisionists as potential ideological partners.[8] It was this change that facilitated the creation of the Betar Naval Academy in the Italian port city of Civitavecchia.[9]

      • JeffB
        April 2, 2014, 8:15 pm

        @lysias

        I think the article you link to is a perfect example of my point. The Zionists fascists and the Italian fascists are aware of one another and semi-friendly but they don’t cooperate in any meaningful way. The Academy is funded out of Belgium. Mussolini and Jabotinsky never meet….

        Was there a potential alliance? Absolutely. But it didn’t happen. In the end European fascism’s anti-Semitism was too strong to tolerate Zionism as a solution to the Jewish question and went for The Final Solution instead which was anti-Zionists.

      • W.Jones
        April 4, 2014, 3:26 pm

        Jeff B,

        For open or direct connections to the European right long preceding 1967 including the nationalists’ resettlement plans and supplying wartime weapons to nationalist forces, see the writings of Lenni Brenner and the background on Jabotinsky’s group. On the use of violence for nationalist purposes, see the testimonies of the immigrants from Iraq.

  37. Pixel
    April 1, 2014, 2:10 am

    Distinctly exquisite pain is born from the breaking of a sacred trust.

    Just after watching the UM student govt /SAFE livestream, I googled to see whether any 12-step (Zi-Anon?) or other groups existed to support “Recovering Zionists”. I was truly sorry not to have found any because I think that kind of support would be / will be INvaluable, for the very reasons “UK” mentions.

    UK, if you’re out there reading these comments…

    You may already know that 12-step folks help themselves by/though helping each other. In that same spirit, perhaps you’d consider starting some kind of support group, yourself. To do so is not about having all the answers. Rather, it’s about having the willingness to sit with others in their pain and their questions.

    Think about it.

    Also, work hard not to conflate Jewishness with Zionist-ness. The correlation is factually incorrect and clouds the waters of self-healing. While there will always be “haters” in the world, I have a strong sense that many people who are other-than-Jewish are / will be able to separate the two.

    Buckle your seat belt; you’re in for the ride of your life.

    … Along the way, be gentle with yourself.

  38. marshald
    April 1, 2014, 3:11 pm

    I m not suggesting the Israeli-Palestinian issue is not valid.

    But why no world-wide attention (and I do not mean to suggest equivalency) with:
    – China/Tibet
    – England/N. Ireland
    – Spain/Catalonia
    – American States (northern and southern) and indigenous peoples
    – Kashmir

    And on and on.

    Throughout history (and no doubt before) war led to winners and losers, with loss of land.

    800,000 Palestinian refugees after WWII – not the human rights nightmare it is portrayed as.

    Whatever the true reasons for the war, the creation of Israel is akin to a man jumping out of a burning building, onto an innocent bystander.

    • a blah chick
      April 2, 2014, 8:36 pm

      “Whatever the true reasons for the war, the creation of Israel is akin to a man jumping out of a burning building, onto an innocent bystander.”

      That is a very poor analogy. A man jumping from a burning building is not trying to hit anyone. Armed Zionists entering an Arab village and expelling and killing the inhabitants is intentionally creating “facts on the ground.”

  39. el truth
    April 3, 2014, 11:56 pm

    “I am sure there is a clever word for people like me (a play on birthright, birthrefusal?) who were raised pro-Israel and now see that the only logical position, any sane person can take is that the USA was complicit in Israeli crimes against humanity.”

    How about “Born Again Jew”. Let’s hope more realise this truth.

Leave a Reply