One killed in protests as Israeli army takes control of Ramallah city center for first time since 2007

Israel/Palestine
on 149 Comments
Clashes between the Israeli army and Palestinian Authority, and Palestinian protesters. (Photo: Mohammed Othman)

Clashes between the Israeli army and Palestinian Authority, and Palestinian protesters. (Photo: Mohammed Othman)

The de facto capital of the West Bank was laid under siege in the early morning hours as both the Israeli army and Palestinian Authority police attacked Palestinians on the streets of Ramallah in a coordinated effort, with one killed by Israeli live-fire. Not since 2007 had the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) taken control of the city’s downtown, typically a nexus of commerce in the occupied Palestinian Territory.

Although there has been longtime security coordination since the establishment of the Palestinian civil administration in 1994, this was the first instance of both Israeli and Palestinian forces working in armed conjunction to suppress Palestinian protesters. A source close to the Palestinian District Commander Office told Mondoweiss that the Palestinian Authority police were notified in advance that the Israeli army would enter the downtown Ramallah area.

Overnight Israeli soldiers killed Mahmoud Atilla Ismael, 27, shooting him in the head with live-fire during the clash. A second Palestinian was killed in the northern West Bank city of Nablus. In Ramallah another, Alaa, 21, was also shot with a live round in the head, although the bullet only grazed his skull. “The doctor told me ‘you are lucky, it’s nothing, it just touched your head,’” he said. Alaa was struck when 50 meters from the Israeli army throwing stones. “I tried to run but I found that my head was wet when I touched it.” He then collapsed on the street, waking hours later in Ramallah public hospital.

Israeli army in central Ramallah. (Photo: Mohammed Othman)

Israeli army in central Ramallah. (Photo: Mohammed Othman)

The scene in Ramallah, which lasted three hours, began at 1:00 am when the IDF first entered the Ramallah area by surrounding a private school administered by a Hamas-affiliated charity in the adjacent town of al-Bireh. Al-Bireh is a municipality divided in two, part a leafy suburb, and part a middle-income former Hamas stronghold. The IDF then entered a second neighborhood in al-Bireh, where they were met by stone-throwing Palestinian youths.

Meanwhile in downtown Ramallah at 1:15 am seven Israeli army Jeeps and two border police vehicles blockaded the city’s sleepy central traffic circle, al-Manara. “They went straight to the police station,” said Mohammed Othman, a human rights activists who photographed and filmed a video of the incursion. Othman saw as soldiers moved through vacant streets to the roof of the police station.

Othman watched as the Israeli army closed the roads circling the Palestinian security building, but youths on foot were able to flood the center of town within the hour. “The kids started going towards them and throwing stones.” Approximately 300 Palestinians had reached the area of the police station by 2:00am. The army fired teargas and sound grenades every few seconds for nearly an hour, before they began firing rubber bullets.

Clashes between the Israeli army and Palestinian protesters in downtown Ramallah. (Photo: Mohammed Othman)

Clashes between the Israeli army and Palestinian protesters in downtown Ramallah. (Photo: Mohammed Othman)

Around 3:00 am the Israeli army appeared to retreat from the center of town. After motoring beyond the first corner of al-Manara circle, the youths directed their attention to the Palestinian Authority and stormed the exterior of the police station, pelting it with rocks. Not before two minutes passed, the Palestinian Authority appeared firing live rounds into the air, every few seconds.

Within ten minutes the Israeli army returned in apparent armed assistance to the Palestinian police force, firing tear gas and rubber bullets at a distance of three blocks from their Palestinian counterparts. Both forces, Israeli and Palestinian, were attacking the Palestinian people on the streets. “The Palestinian Authority is a bitch,” protesters yelled as they hurled broken cinder blocks.

“Since 2006, 2007 this is the first time the Israelis reached the Palestinian police station,” said Othman, explaining the protesters went on to attack the building with rocks out of frustration that their security forces did not protect them against Israeli fire. “This made the people very angry at the Palestinian Authority, it caused conflict between the people and the Palestinian Authority, he said continuing, “this is why they lost respect and trust from the people.”

After the clashes between the Israeli army, the Palestinian Authority and the residents of Ramallah subsided many who were still awake from the overnight conflict congregated at the Ramallah hospital. Trucks full of armed Palestinian police drove onto the compound and arrested one youth from inside of the medical complex. Undercover police also surrounded a youth questioning him about the whereabouts of his younger brother.

The Israeli army’s taking of Ramallah comes after more than a week of the largest military operation in the West Bank since the second Intifada. The turmoil began following the reported abduction of three Israeli youths from an intersection in the West Bank, in the Gush Etzion settlement bloc. In total, over three hundred have been arrested and five killed with thousands of additional Israeli soldiers patrolling major West Bank cities daily.

149 Responses

  1. Cliff
    June 22, 2014, 7:35 am

    The neighborhood sociopath at it again.

    Imagine if a black youth in America kidnapped 3 white kids. Would the police do this to the black neighborhood?

    Israelis are the most racist nation on Earth.

    • Kay24
      June 22, 2014, 9:22 am

      There is something in their psyche that makes them not only racist, but vindictive, and have ingrained sadistic tendencies, to make sure those they hold under military occupation suffer inhumane treatment.
      That inane sense of entitlement to kill, and then claim it was defense, is nauseating.

      • seafoid
        June 22, 2014, 1:51 pm

        And they have the gall to say the Palestinians are not interested in peace.

      • Pat Nguyen
        June 22, 2014, 5:44 pm

        You have the arrogance to say that the Palestinians are.

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 11:13 pm

        You have the arrogance to say that the Palestinians are.

        The Quartet has already determined that they are

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 11:13 pm

        You have the arrogance to say that the Palestinians are.

        The Quartet has already determined that they are. Hasbara fail!

      • amigo
        June 23, 2014, 6:03 am

        Another one of the hasbara brigade who just got off the boat.

      • Pat
        June 22, 2014, 3:07 pm

        Seems like you try to dehumanize those you disagree with. How does that work out for you?

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 11:14 pm

        Seems like you try to dehumanize those you disagree with. How does that work out for you?

        It’s worked out swimmingly for Israel.

      • Cliff
        June 23, 2014, 1:13 am

        @Pat

        Dehumanizing is something the Israelis are good at and have perfected over the course of their 50 year occupation and colonization of Palestine.

      • Accentitude
        June 23, 2014, 5:04 am

        Well, 66 but the PLO already dropped 19 years from claims against Israel on behalf of Palestinian victims everywhere. So I suppose technically its only 47 since we’re supposed to start counting from 1967.

    • Giles
      June 22, 2014, 9:42 am

      You have understated what Israel is doing.

      It is credible that the Police in the USA would tear apart a black neighborhood in such an event. See Charles Stuart and the Mission Hill neighborhood 20 some odd years ago. It was disgusting.

      But pales compared to what Israel is doing.

      The appropriate comparison would be the USA reacting to such a event by sending the army into every black neighborhood in the country and killing several people, arresting hundreds.

      One aspect may have a 100% correlation. Charles Stuart murdered his own wife and blamed it on some black guy. Israel is blaming the disappearance of these three settlers on Hamas……..

      • Kay24
        June 22, 2014, 10:22 pm

        Unlike the killings of 2 Palestinian kids recently, there are no videos, eye witnesses, or media, to collaborate Israel story, and we know Israel is a proven liar.

    • piotr
      June 22, 2014, 11:44 am

      In bad old days, various things were done to black neighborhoods, and IDF did not go that far this time. link to en.wikipedia.org

      In 21-st century the competition for the “most racist nation” is not as wide as before, but Israel is not the only one, so one has to structure the rules of competition in a “biased fashion”. For example, where governments do not event pretend to be non-racists, and in the instances it does so, however half-heartedly, is massively condemned in the press.

      Under “racism” I also put “communalism”, or what is called “communal” in Indian press. For example, recently there was a serious bloody riot in Sri Lanka led by Buddhist monks against Muslim, and while all the involved are of the same racial profile, they form distinct communities, so it would be called a “communal riot”. The press in the capital condemned the police that did not defend the Muslim, the government pretends that it did the best possible, so, advantage Israel.

      But we could also focus on the dollar amounts of destroyed property and the number of fatal victims and declare that current communal activity by Israel are falling short compared with Sri Lanka. But I do not know how to set the rules to give Israel advantage over Burma, except for some arbitrary threshold, like “category of countries with GDP/capita above 2000 dollars”.

      • Qualtrough
        June 22, 2014, 12:57 pm

        I assume you did not read the Tulsa Race Riot entry that you linked to because if you had you would have realized that Israeli forces have gone very much ‘that far’ and more. Government forces in Oklahoma, while not entirely even-handed in their actions, were deployed to stop rioting whites from wreaking further havoc on the black community. The sheriff very bravely instructed his officers to protect the black youth accused of assaulting a white girl (the impetus for the rioting) at all costs to prevent a lynching and they were successful. The National Guard was armed and instructed to fire upon white citizens who were trying to raid the armory, and they were successful in avoiding any such raid. These actions by law enforcement are in complete and utter contrast to what Israeli forces are doing now in reaction to the missing youths.

    • Justpassingby
      June 22, 2014, 12:51 pm

      ..and these people are probably not even kidnapped to begin with. Sick regime.

  2. Accentitude
    June 22, 2014, 8:08 am

    I don’t even know what to think anymore. After reading about this on Ma’an, I’ve been have been experiencing a creeping sensation of paranoia. I’ll admit I shut the window and drew the blinds in my office here in Ramallah as if that would create some sort of barrier between myself and some sniper somewhere out there.

    • ritzl
      June 22, 2014, 8:17 am

      I wouldn’t call it paranoia, creeping or otherwise.

      Be safe.

    • bintbiba
      June 22, 2014, 9:00 am

      I’m not even there in Ramallah /Palestine and I have lost the capacity to think.
      The feeling of numbness towards the absurdity and savagery of all the goings on (in & Syria & Irak too) is taking over. Anger, fury at the stupidity of powers-that-be is so mind boggling, I often feel I’m losing the will to live!

      • just
        June 22, 2014, 9:08 am

        I share your anger/frustration/fear, bintbiba. There is evil at work– Netanyahu is wreaking mayhem and murder.

        Too many are dying for you to give up your will to live, bintbiba.

        Stay safe, Accentitude and Allison– and anyone else that is reading/writing MW that is trapped inside the OPT.

      • Kay24
        June 23, 2014, 8:12 am

        Hang in there. I totally am with you and your feelings of outrage and helplessness. I feel the same way when I read article after article showing just how brutal this occupation is, and just how much suffering is endured by the helpless occupied civilians. It is not fair in all ways. It is unbelievable how certain people belonging to a nation that did not exist until recently, can inflict so much of pain, suffering, inhumane treatment on those who were there before them, and how much their lies, propaganda, and threats, have make the rest of the world look the other way. War criminals supported by my tax money.

  3. Talkback
    June 22, 2014, 8:19 am

    … three hundred have been arrested and five killed …

    Sounds like an Antigentile Apartheid Junta’s search for three missing Jews.

  4. Citizen
    June 22, 2014, 8:28 am

    Israel’s opportunity to destroy Palestinian unity government in its infancy continues.

  5. Kay24
    June 22, 2014, 8:34 am

    All this violence and killing, because Israel “claims” three of their kids are missing?
    What should the Palestinians have done, and then keep doing, for the deaths of their kids recently? Why is retaliation only Israel’s right? Why are victims of a brutal occupation NOT allowed to defend themselves. Even today the leader of the zionists claim, the Palestinian deaths are part of their “defense”. What a load of bull.
    Israel has become a pariah state, and it’s arrogant behavior reminiscent of the nazis.
    Finally Abbas protests and speaks out:

    link to haaretz.com

    But who is listening? Certainly not the US, who continues to be quiet about the overkill Israel once again displays. No Israeli supporter should be surprised it is one of the most disliked nations in the world. It truly deserves that title for the brutality and human rights violations, which has become an ugly habit for them.
    Bibi should stop with the false excuses for justifying these crimes, and constantly whining that it was because of “defending” itself. Yeah right, only God’s chosen can defend itself, and not the victims of their military occupation. Zionist bull.

    • Shingo
      June 22, 2014, 6:36 pm

      Finally Abbas protests and speaks out:

      Speaks out about what? The two faced cretin is collaborating with Israel to crush the protests.

      The sooner someone puts a bullet through his head the better

      • just
        June 22, 2014, 6:51 pm

        Wow. Really?

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 7:07 pm

        Yes really. Abbas is a sleaze, corrupt enabler. He’s part of the problem not the solution and he’s not going to give up power and privilege unless it’s taken from him.

      • just
        June 22, 2014, 7:21 pm

        I think you are wrong.

        By a bullet you want and think that order and justice will be established?
        I’m sure that you remember how well that worked out when Yasser Arafat was made the villain and held hostage by Israel and the ‘west’. I’ll quote wiki b/c it will take forever for me to cut and paste otherwise:

        “Arafat’s long personal and political survival was taken by most Western commentators as a sign of his mastery of asymmetric warfare and his skill as a tactician, given the extremely dangerous nature of politics of the Middle East and the frequency of assassinations.[97] Some commentators believe his survival was largely due to Israel’s fear that he could become a martyr for the Palestinian cause if he were assassinated or even arrested by Israel.[98] Others believe that Israel refrained from taking action against Arafat because it feared Arafat less than Hamas and the other Islamist movements gaining support over Fatah. The complex and fragile web of relations between the US, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and other Arab states contributed also to Arafat’s longevity as the leader of the Palestinians.[97]

        Israel attempted to assassinate Arafat on a number of occasions, but has never used its own agents, preferring instead to “turn” Palestinians close to the intended target, usually using blackmail.[99] According to Alan Hart, the Mossad’s specialty is poison.[99] According to Abu Iyad, two attempts were made on Arafat’s life by the Israeli Mosaad and the Military Directorate in 1970.[100] In 1976, Abu Sa’ed, a Palestinian traitor-agent who had been working for the Mossad for four years, was enlisted in a plot to put poison pellets that looked like grains of rice in Arafat’s food. Abu Iyad explains that Abu Sa’ed confessed after he received the order to go ahead, explaining that he was unable to go through with the plot because, “He was first of all a Palestinian and his conscience wouldn’t let him do it.”[101] Arafat claimed in a 1988 interview with Time that because of his fear of assassination by the Israelis, he never slept in the same place two nights in a row.[102]”

        Petition your own government for something else if you want an end to the INSANITY.

        Ramallah 2002 revisited.

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 7:41 pm

        By a bullet you want and think that order and justice will be established?
        I’m sure that you remember how well that worked out when Yasser Arafat was made the villain and held hostage by Israel and the ‘west’. I’ll quote wiki b/c it will take forever for me to cut and paste otherwise:

        Arafat was killed by Israel for the exact opposite reasons – he actually had the ability to deliver a deal and was not in Israel’s pocket. The fact that Arafat was made out to be a villain by Israel should stand out as a positive endorsement of his credentials.

      • just
        June 22, 2014, 8:16 pm

        I believed in Arafat. I hated to see what Israel and the west did to him, both before and after his death. Yasser Arafat is dead.

        Abbas has tried as well to change things with a path of non- violence, yet Israel and the west continue with their maniacal destruction of an honorable people and their history. I do not want Abbas dead.

        Either way, it is about the surival of Palestinians and justice being done, and not about who is representing them. It is about the US and Israel and what we do/have done to enable Zionism and disenfranchise the indigenous Palestinians– those trapped in the OPT and in the diaspora.

        What should Abbas do? Inflame his people and engage in the Israeli wished- for Intifada 3, so more will die and Palestine will be blamed yet again?

        I think not.

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 8:36 pm

        I hated to see what Israel and the west did to him. Abbas has tried as well to change things with a path to non- violence, yet Israel and the west continue with their maniacal destruction of an honorable people and their history.

        Abbas is part of that apparatus. It’s not that he has adopted non violence – the violence against his own people continues with his complicity. At no point has he told the PA security to face down the Israelis and protected the Palestinians from them.

        The PA security forces are working hand in glove with Israel against the demonstrators. The Israelis came into Ramallah without any reason, yet went about brutalizing the Palestinian population there and now claims to be acting in self defense.

        Either way, it is about the Palestinians and not who is representing them

        It is when those claiming to represent them are complicit in keeping them submissive to the occupation.

        What should Abbas do? Inflame his people and engage in the Israeli wished- for Intifada 3, so more will die and Palestine will be blamed yet again?

        Face down the IDF. Demand that Israel stay out of Ramallah for a start – or dissolve the PA and force the Israelis to pick up the tab.

      • just
        June 22, 2014, 9:05 pm

        “Face down the IDF. Demand that Israel stay out of Ramallah for a start – or dissolve the PA and force the Israelis to pick up the tab.”

        For starters, how does Palestine “face down the IDF”??? Without the help of the US and others– NOT POSSIBLE. They can demand all they want and force all they want, but until and unless somebody reigns Israel in, it will be for nothing but more dead Palestinians.

        I get your frustration, but Abbas is not the enemy that you believe him to be.

        That’s just my opinion. I care very much about this, and have for all of my semi to fully adult life. I think that this debacle that we have enabled and our imperial/hegemonic ambitions will prove to be our downfall. History and our children will judge us harshly and for good reason.

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 9:34 pm

        how does Palestine “face down the IDF”??? Without the help of the US and others– NOT POSSIBLE.

        Why not? The Israelis rely in the PA security forces to keep the Palestinians in line. Without them, the price of liability would go up considerably, both financially and and in terms of risk to Israeli lives. There is nothing stopping the PA from protecting Palestinians from Israelis.

        I get your frustration, but Abbas is not the enemy that you believe him to be.

        Not so much an enemy as a lackey for Israel.

  6. Blownaway
    June 22, 2014, 9:16 am

    The PLA is now part of the problem. The Palestinians cannot move forward with Abbas and his cronies.

    • a blah chick
      June 22, 2014, 9:22 am

      This is why the two state solution is no longer an option. The only kind of Palestinian state that would be tolerated would look like the PA on steroids.

    • just
      June 22, 2014, 9:30 am

      Divide and conquer while creating massive destruction is the out of the Zionist Handbook.

      Who will occupy the space when Abbas and “his cronies” are gone? Is this the time; are we the ones to do it?

      “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” We must not allow Netanyahu/Israel to triumph. We must demand of our own government to finally speak the truth about Israel’s actions as inhuman and illegal.

      (speaking of evil, abc had Cheney on…..)

      • Blownaway
        June 22, 2014, 12:12 pm

        Right now the PLA give Israel the cover of plausible deniability to say in the bantustans Palestinians are ” free “. They are day to day enforcers of the occupation in exchange for the basic things that most Palestinians lack and aspire to. Like the ability to move freely or make a living or provide healthcare for their families. (What do you expect Abbas to do when his wife gets to get medical care in Israeli hospitals). Dissolution of the PLA will expose who the real rulers of the WB are. Then the process of sorting out rights in one state will start to play out

      • just
        June 22, 2014, 12:21 pm

        “Palestinians turning to UN Security Council to halt West Bank raids

        PLO official Hanan Ashrawi told The Times of Israel on Sunday that other diplomatic options were being weighed besides the plea to the UN Security Council, including an appeal to the High Contracting Parties of the Fourth Geneva Convention and the UN General Assembly.

        “The Israeli operation is unconscionable and criminal,” Ashrawi said. “It is a reign of terror directed against a captive Palestinian population. This is not a systematic search for three abducted boys but collective punishment. It’s crazy and it must stop immediately.”

        The Palestinians have reported six civilian casualties and hundreds of arrests since the start of the IDF operation last week.

        On Saturday, the Executive Committee of the PLO convened in Ramallah, issuing a statement saying “the leadership will not remain silent in the face of the Israeli terrorist aggression against the state of Palestine and will not allow Israel to escape punishment for its premeditated aggression.””

        link to timesofisrael.com

      • just
        June 22, 2014, 12:33 pm

        I forgot to add this to the above article:

        “While the PA has cooperated with Israeli forces, signs of weariness have begun to show in Ramallah and on the Palestinian street. Two Palestinians were killed during clashes with Israeli forces during raids overnight Saturday, bringing the Palestinian death toll during the campaign to four.”

      • Blownaway
        June 22, 2014, 1:05 pm

        Blah blah blah…do something

    • Justpassingby
      June 22, 2014, 12:50 pm

      Exactly!
      What shamful puppet abbas is!

  7. Denis
    June 22, 2014, 9:39 am

    Allison: both the Israeli army and Palestinian Authority police attacked Palestinians on the streets of Ramallah in a coordinated effort

    So, who is the idiot here? Bibi? Or Abbas doing his step’n-fetch-it? This is like MLK helping Bull Connor hold the fire hose. The “unity government” is DoA.

    RT is reporting their offices in Ramallah have been ransacked by IDF. Dumb move. Millions of Americans recognize that RT is one of the few reliable news outlets for news on Israel.

    link to rt.com

    This statement is telling:

    The IDF said Sunday that the raid did not specifically target RT’s office. Rather the Hamas-linked Al-Quds TV channel was the target, due to its “inciting hatred against Israel and advocating terrorism,” the Israeli forces said in a statement.

    The IDF publicly claims the right to be judge, jury, and executioner in shutting down free speech. We know that’s the way they operate, but to come right out and say it — chutzpah. Due process? What’s that? It’s only the corner-stone of civilized nations. Somebody get Pam Geller on the line.

    • Accentitude
      June 23, 2014, 5:17 am

      If only it was just the Al Quds TV Channel. The IDF raided the Palmedia link to palmedia.ps building an confiscated computers, recording equipment, files, and other equipment and materials. Palmedia is part of the greater PalTel group and operates throughout the oPt. One of it’s clients is RT.

  8. yonah fredman
    June 22, 2014, 10:30 am

    Hamas represents approximately half of the Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank. In most Arab countries there is a strong Islamic movement and as Oudeh Basharat pointed out in his column, it is the strong Islamic movement that bolsters the dictatorships, for the dictators paint a picture called: us or the Islamists and neither is a good picture, but that is the current mechanism of democracy, dictatorship and Islamic parties.

    Netanyahu never showed any sign that he was interested in real negotiations with Fatah and thus this crackdown on Hamas seen in the context of the status quo that is the core of the nonannexationist Likud is a tactic to delay all change and evinces zero interest in the Palestinians and the idea of a democratic representation of the Palestinians. Hamas is not my favorite political party, but if we are not to wait forever, the process towards democracy will have to find a way to allow for the fact that Islam unites large groups of people in Palestine and elsewhere in the Arab world. It seems to me a dangerous process but it also seems necessary. Netanyahu is interested in quashing this process for as long as it takes for the Islamic movement into politics to disappear or to turn benign and entirely different. I oppose the status quo but realize that the move forward would be dangerous, but given that netanyahu is in charge his purpose is to preserve the status quo, so I cannot give him my support because his context is wrongheaded.

    • LeaNder
      June 22, 2014, 11:17 am

      He turns them into victims, and I doubt that he isn’t aware of that. Maybe that’s exactly the point. Attacks on even their charity networks does not make it any better.

      yonah, you are by far the most rational Israel supporter here. Don’t you think that statements like this:

      Such language suggests that the Jewish yearning for our own homeland is somehow theologically and morally abhorrent, denying Jews their own identity as a people. A sweeping indictment of Zionism amounts to a blanket condemnation of the vast majority of Jews in the world.

      necessarily must partly produce a religious counterargument? Don’t worry about your constant dispossession the land was always ours. We simply allowed you stay for a couple of centuries.

      I have to admit that this puzzles me most. A century old religion is now reduced to the nationalist right to the procession of the land. And it is not simply the hardcore that uses this national religious argument. Doesn’t that somehow reduce the original covenant to a real estate deal? Is that all it was always about? Highly sarcastically: Does that make the Nazis and the Shoa ultimately necessary. Since without them/it, it wouldn’t have worked?

      All I can say, I have the highest respect for these young men that in spite of the knowledge how dangerous it is, do not allow Israel to reduce them to pure cattle, don’t give up the little space of freedom to protest instead of simply surrendering to the machinery of power.

      • yonah fredman
        June 22, 2014, 3:45 pm

        leander- I do not think that Zionism is the root cause of the Islamic revitalization of the last 35 years (post Khomeini). I think that modernization did not supply the human race with sufficient nutrition for their religious needs and those who expected religion to wither and disappear were unaware of the nature of the human race and certainly human history. The fact that the west is/was associated with the new globalization, the new atheism, the new materialism results in the dynamic of us versus them vis a vis Islam versus modernity. Just because the west has the material goods this is not enough for cultures to wave the white flag, recent history has shown and Islam is a primary form of identity politics that rejects the assimilation demanded by western materialism.

        Certainly the occupation since 67 and the birth of Israel accompanied as it was by the Nakba will/would create a counterforce. But the force of Islam was not born of the Nakba nor of 67; it is much deeper than that.

        Conceiving Israel as the answer to the Shoah is a thorny direction. Having the day to day events of Israel versus her enemy neighbors as your daily bread and your replacement for the study of Talmud and prayer and Sabbath, as the new core of your Jewishness is rather meager nutrition. But around here any discussion of the Shoah and appropriate reactions of Jews of traditional bent to this event, stirs up a storm of sarcasm and unless you can offer some new insight, I don’t need the sarcasm, do you?

    • ritzl
      June 22, 2014, 11:37 am

      With all due respect, yonah, flip this around using Likud…, Jews, and Judaism and see how it sounds.

      Hamas is not creating the problem. To couch the problem in terms of waiting for Hamas to moderate: A) is itself a symptom of the problem; and, B) completely ignores the radicalizing effect of bombs, casual killing sprees (as we’ve seen in the last few days), and most importantly yet most easily accomplished, simple inclusion (a stake) in the discussions and/or outcome.

      As simple as it has always been to do, Israel has never tried to give Hamas an incentive to moderate. “The flogging will continue until morale improves.” is demonstrated GoI policy. They should all just wear the t-shirts and make it official.

      • piotr
        June 22, 2014, 2:23 pm

        Well, this is what Yonah wrote.

      • ritzl
        June 22, 2014, 10:33 pm

        Sort of, piotr. He wrote of danger where there really isn’t any. The radicalization of Hamas is because its people keep getting the crap bombed out of them (and other forms of deprivation) by Israel. It’s not because of some immutable concept of pan-Arab Radical Islam™ that yonah, Likud, or Israel have to hold their collective noses and deal with til the end of time. A peaceful path forward is vastly more transactional and deterministic than that.

    • just
      June 22, 2014, 1:24 pm

      ‘Understanding’ Islamophobia:

      “It took one American Muslim law student, Saba Ahmed, making one mild criticism during a conservative panel discussion of Benghazi, to get people foaming at the mouth at an event co-hosted by a conservative think tank, the Heritage Foundation.

      What could she have said to deserve an upbraiding from the stage? “We portray Islam and all Muslims as bad, but there’s 1.8bn followers of Islam. We have 8 million-plus Muslim Americans in this country and I don’t see them represented here.”

      Watching the video of the panelists respond to Ahmed on Monday afternoon, you can almost hear the wheels turning in their heads: How dare this young American Muslim law student – in a hijab, no less – talk back to us? How out-of-line for her to assert that the majority of Muslims in the world are peaceful people and that society should not use a broad brush to demonize an entire faith based on the acts of a very tiny minority!

      What came out of their mouths was worse. “Are you American?” asked panelist Brigitte Gabriel, after opining that the majority of peaceful Muslims was “irrelevant” because “Most Germans were peaceful, yet the Nazis drove the agenda and as a result, 60m died.” Panel moderator and conservative radio host Chris Plante mocked Ahmed by asking, “Can you tell me who the head of the ‘Muslim peace movement’ is?” (You know it’s got to be bad when a known Islamophobe, Frank Gaffney, seemed frighteningly like the voice of reason when he said that most Muslims “don’t speak Arabic, aren’t imbued with the traditions of the faith as out of Saudi Arabia, for example, and they are not necessarily the problem, at least not yet.”)”

      more here: link to theguardian.com

      • seafoid
        June 22, 2014, 2:13 pm

        This notion that Israel can reform Palestinian society without offering anything positive and reverse the progress of 30 years towards a more religious outlook is deluded. Hamas is a response to Israeli nihilism and pauperisation. It is part of the reality of Eretz Israel hashlemah for Palestinians on level 5 of zionist hell.

      • just
        June 22, 2014, 2:22 pm

        I think that’s right…

        Why is Israel striving toward apocalypse? It makes no sense. They lose their souls for what?

      • piotr
        June 22, 2014, 3:18 pm

        This is Middle East, and the holy city of three religions, Jerusalem. The question is not “why strive toward apocalypse” but how (or whose). What will hasten the arrival of return of Messiah, Mossiach, al-Mahdi, Hidden Imam and so on. For example, a former president of Iran was urging is compatriots to observe Ramadan better than even to … hasten the demise of the Zionist entity. (In case you are slow or dense, the rules of this game are: who gets his earthly representative of God first, wins everything.) The entire issue of nuclear enrichment was but a subterfuge, diverting the attention from the true plans. A sensible countermeasure would be to disturb the Ramadan observances — which seems the current goal of security operation in the West Bank.

    • seafoid
      June 22, 2014, 2:02 pm

      It wouldn’t matter if the second party in the PA “government” was led by Atticus Finch, yonah. Israel hasn’t sunk over $100bn into YESHA and planted 15% of its jews in the West bank for Zionism to make peace with the Palestinians. Israel is set to zero sum game . Apartheid or ethnic cleansing is the choice available to the Palestinians. And Israel wants Judaism to go all the way with Israel. You have to see where this is going. I wonder what will be retrievable from the wreckage when it goes tits up.

    • Walid
      June 22, 2014, 3:42 pm

      “… the strong Islamic movement that bolsters the dictatorships, for the dictators paint a picture called: us or the Islamists and neither is a good picture, … for as long as it takes for the Islamic movement into politics to disappear or to turn benign and entirely different. ”

      Yonah, you left out of your equation the involvement of the West in propping up the dictators.

      You mentioned the Islamic movements turning benign and entirely different. Exactly what do you mean by that statement? You wrote a long refusal of Netanyahu’s ways yet you appear to agree with him that what he’s doing to the Islamists will be good in the long run. Sitting on the fence will give you a sore behind.

      • yonah fredman
        June 22, 2014, 7:25 pm

        Walid- If I was in charge of the future I would have to get off of the fence, but as is I am merely observing the world circling its axis, if you get my drift. If I had to predict the future I would say that in 20 years Hamas will be a major player in Palestinian politics and Fatah second, so what Netanyahu is doing right now (which seems to be a version, you should pardon the expression of “mowing the lawn”, west bank style) will not stand the test of time 20 years from now and will be viewed at best as quixotic, but in any case futile (or as amos harel in haaretz seems to be hinting, counterproductive) in the long run. in the long run hamas will have to be at the negotiating table or in the back room after fatah sits at the table with israel. the idea that one can suppress hamas forever with these kind of arrests seems futile to me in the long run.

        I am interested in changing the status quo. netanyahu is interested in entrenching the status quo. my first step would be a map negotiated between the 2 sides. netanyahu is uninterested in negotiating any map.

    • Shingo
      June 22, 2014, 6:46 pm

      it is the strong Islamic movement that bolsters the dictatorships

      The opposite actually. It’s Saudi Arabia that supports strong Islamic movements. That us why Saudi Arabia despises the Muslim Brotherhood – because their phylosophy is egalitarian and to share and distribute wealth – a nightmare scenario for the Saudis and oil cartels in the region.

      • yonah fredman
        June 22, 2014, 7:18 pm

        Shingo- It seems to me that Saudi Arabia and Iran did not invent this movement and the Muslim Brotherhood didn’t quite invent it either. The failure of the MB in Egypt, although MB was not the only power to blame, the Mubarak/army/state was always there even during Morsi, sure we can blame the generals and the army for doing what they always want to do: take power, but Morsi was nothing that one is nostalgic for, only nostalgic for the pre coup possibilities, but not the Morsi reality. As far as the jihadists in Iraq or in Syria and the role that Saudi money and organization has in these campaigns, I would suspect that everyone with an interest in “dominating” the region, would find some way to get those that carry the Koran in their hands and their minds to fight or vote for their cause. The artificial lines of Picot sykes, hope i got those names right, are falling apart and there seems to be worsened fighting between Sunni and Shiite and probably more than any other consequence of the war against Iraq of 2003 was the boost that it gave to Iran and that change of the center of gravity of power in the region was the most important geopolitical consequence, other than the weakening of America and America’s “interest” in the rest of the world.

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 7:57 pm

        Shingo- It seems to me that Saudi Arabia and Iran did not invent this movement and the Muslim Brotherhood didn’t quite invent it either

        For a start, Iran has never had anything to so with jihadists, seeing as the jihadist movement is Sunni.

        Saudi Arabia did not invent the movement, but has been the reason it is still alive. Without Saudi backing and finance, it would have expired a long time ago.

        but Morsi was nothing that one is nostalgic for, only nostalgic for the pre coup possibilities, but not the Morsi reality.

        Morsi was incompetent, but the Egytians turned on Morsi largely because the economic situation was in dire straights, which was not Morsi’s doing. They also turned on him because Morsi was powerless to remove the Mubarak era deep state that remained firmly in place. Any efforts on Morsi’s part to clean up the corrupt dead wood was spun by the corrupt apparatus to accuse Morsi of imposing a MB power grab.

        The Mubarak era media remained in place too, so they got away with all manner of outlandish accusations such a Morsi and co selling the pyramids to the Saudis. The Egyptians, not the most sophisticated lot, and notorious for buying into all manner of conspiracy theories, swallowed this crap hook line and sinker.

        yonah fredman commented on One killed in protests as Israeli army takes control of Ramallah city center for first time since 2007.

        in response to Shingo:

        The opposite actually. It’s Saudi Arabia that supports strong Islamic movements. That us why Saudi Arabia despises the Muslim Brotherhood – because their phylosophy is egalitarian and to share and distribute wealth – a nightmare scenario for the Saudis and oil cartels in the region.

        Shingo- It seems to me that Saudi Arabia and Iran did not invent this movement and the Muslim Brotherhood didn’t quite invent it either. The failure of the MB in Egypt, although MB was not the only power to blame, the Mubarak/army/state was always there even during Morsi, sure we can blame the generals and the army for doing what they always want to do: take power, but Morsi was nothing that one is nostalgic for, only nostalgic for the pre coup possibilities, but not the Morsi reality. As far as the jihadists in Iraq or in Syria and the role that Saudi money and organization has in these campaigns, I would suspect that everyone with an interest in “dominating” the region, would find some way to get those that carry the Koran in their hands and their minds to fight or vote for their cause. The artificial lines of Picot sykes, hope i got those names right, are falling apart and there seems to be worsened fighting between Sunni and Shiite and probably more than any other consequence of the war against Iraq of 2003 was the boost that it gave to Iran and that change of the center of gravity of power in the region was the most important geopolitical consequence, other than the weakening of America and America’s “interest” in the rest of the world.

        Sykes-Picot certainly played a part in dividing and conquering the Arab world, but it was over 100 years ago and nationalist movements have since grown, so it’s not as relevant as it was.

        The jihadist movement is largely a movement of the impoverished and and disaffected. The Saudis have funded them as a way to keep them out of Saudi Arabia and the US has funded and backed them as a way to inflict a bloody nose against the USSR/Russia and Iran.

    • Accentitude
      June 24, 2014, 1:54 am

      Yonah, according to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistic’s Local Community Survey of 2013, there are 4,420,549 Palestinians total in the West Bank and Gaza, (again, as of 2013) and contrary to popular belief (which I partially blame on deliberate Israeli misinformation and a heavily biased and negligent MSM but there is also much blame to be passed around to many so-called stakeholders) there are more Palestinian political parties than just Fatah and Hamas present in WB/G. In fact, there are 16 political parties. So it is ridiculous to state that “Hamas represents approximately half of the Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.” because it is, in fact, not true at all. Anyway you carve it, the equation does not come out to 50% of the total Palestinian population being represented by Hamas nor registered as members of the Hamas political party.

      • yonah fredman
        June 24, 2014, 7:12 am

        accentitude- You are right. Most Palestinians are not affiliated with a party and the percentage affiliated with Hamas or Islamic parties is, if I recall, closer to 22%. But Islam is a major player in politics in the Arab world today and if the path from here to democracy is going to start now, then we will have to confront/experiment with engaging Hamas, which right now is the major player in the Islamic politics of Palestinians. Of course the path to democracy is not starting today and thus we are dealing with a different dynamic, one dedicated to preserving the status quo. It has recently been explained to me that given the tumult of the region, currently spotlight Iraq and the ISIS, anything other than the status quo is a heavenly notion and not of this world. And though I am impatient, I can see that this moment in June 2014 a movement by the Netanyahu government of Israel towards changing the status quo in the direction I have in mind is not only quixotic but contrary to the nature of the dynamics of history. Nonetheless democracy is still the battle cry of the small piece of paper I carry in my pocket even if I know not to scream it. and democracy deals with the situation as given and there is a major movement of Islamic political consciousness folks in what some call Palestine and any path towards democracy will have to deal with those people and the current political mechanisms and structures and parties.

      • piotr
        June 24, 2014, 11:30 am

        Catholicism dominates Polish politics and while it is not something to be thrilled about, it is not an end of the world. Religion as a “major player in politics” is not a static fixture. If you have rank nationalists, the results are not nice whether they are Shinto, Christian, Jews, Buddhists, Hindu, Muslim animists (examples are easy to find). “On a good day” all those religions are nice. When we overly focus on a relatively superficial aspect like “Islam”, we are prone to conclusions that murderous fascists, like the current regime in Egypt (check the death toll and the number of death sentences) are preferable to the dreaded “political Islam”.

  9. just
    June 22, 2014, 11:11 am

    “Netanyahu: Recent Palestinian deaths were not intentional, but self defense
    Israel has unequivocal evidence that Hamas was involved in the abduction of three teens, prime minister says in cabinet meeting.

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday declined to condemn or apologize for the recent deaths of young Palestinians at the hands of Israeli security forces, in response to criticism levelled by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.”

    link to haaretz.com

    • a blah chick
      June 22, 2014, 11:21 am

      One of the deaths was an unarmed mentally challenged man who wanted to go to the mosque and refused to turn back, so they shot him.

      Self defense my ass.

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 7:09 pm

        Yes, can you imagine Hamas killing Israelis in Tel Aviv under the pretext of self defense?

      • Accentitude
        June 24, 2014, 1:57 am

        Several times in the chest from only a few feet away as well. They didn’t bother detaining him or pushing him back in the direction he came from. One less Arab to breathe annexed Israeli air, I’m sure.

    • just
      June 22, 2014, 11:46 am

      More from the above linked article:

      “We are in the middle of an ongoing and focused effort to return our boys home,” Netanyahu said, at the start of Sunday’s government meeting. “That effort involves a certain degree of friction with the civilian population of Judea and Samaria, but we have no intention of maliciously harming anyone.”

      The Israeli forces are acting in a manner consistent with the requirements of self-defense, the prime minister said, “and occasionally there are victims or injuries on the Palestinian side as a result of the self-defense activities of our forces.”

      Netanyahu also referred to Abbas’ statement that there was no categorical proof of the involvement of Hamas in the abduction of three youths over a week ago.

      “We have unequivocal evidence of Hamas’ involvement,” the prime minister said. “We are transferring that evidence and other information to several countries. Soon it will be in the public domain. At that point, Abu Mazen’s (Abbas’) words will be assessed in Saudi Arabia in a practical way.

      “[Abbas’] words will be evaluated not only in the light of the actions to return the boys home, but also as regards our determination to dismantle the unity government with Hamas, which abducted the youths and calls for the destruction of Israel.” ”

      Friction??? Self- defense??? Judea and Samaria??? Saudi Arabia???

      Completely insane, insatiable blood lust and criminality. Yet, there are those who support this sociopath.

      • a blah chick
        June 22, 2014, 12:11 pm

        I tried reading that article but my BS meter started shaking then imploded and vanished with a loud bang.

      • just
        June 22, 2014, 2:31 pm

        Great visual, abc!

        I’ve got another that you can have. One needs a stockpile in order to read/hear anything from the Netanyahu and that bunch.

        (And to think that I almost got rid of them when Bushco. left office)

      • piotr
        June 22, 2014, 4:10 pm

        I was thinking more on sound effect. The best song I know on the theme “preventative self-defense”, “I shot the sherif”, has a beautiful chorus “O no no!” link to youtube.com
        (but in a later performance, the chorus merely sings sceptically “Oo oo oo”).

      • Kate
        June 23, 2014, 3:34 pm

        a blah chick, thank you! I have been so depressed about the outrages that keep getting worse and worse, to the point where doing the Palestine newslist is barely tolerable, and then I read your comment about the BS meter and I laughed out loud for the first time in quite a while.

      • just
        June 23, 2014, 3:46 pm

        Dear Kate… you are so stalwart to do that list. I laughed out loud as well when I read her post, then giggled thru the evening when I thought about it.

        Here I am chuckling again!

      • Shingo
        June 23, 2014, 7:43 pm

        What I can’t fathom is how the Arab world is so pathetic and impotent over this. I am so sick of the whole disgusting lot.

        I hate to admit it, but between the Saudis, Egyptians, ISIS, Fatah, Abbas and Jordan, am beginning to entertain racist notions that Arabs really are the dumbest, cowardly, corrupt and spineless people on the planet. And whether we should resign ourselves to their fete of their own self imposed future of misery.

      • just
        June 23, 2014, 8:04 pm

        Shingo– I find that post deeply offensive.

        I’m also confounded as to why you advocate for the killing of the Palestinian leader twice in two days.

        I expect all that on other sites, not here.

      • Shingo
        June 23, 2014, 8:35 pm

        Shingo– I find that post deeply offensive.

        Sorry, bit I find the complicity of PA security forces in crushing demonstrations and resistance to Israeli occupation deeply offensive – but it is your right to side with the Israelis.

        I also find it deeply offensive that Abbas crushes dissent or protest.

        I’m also confounded as to why you advocate for the killing of the Palestinian leader twice in two days.

        The guy is a upper dictator who refuses to hold elections and has appointed himself permanent ruler. The only way to get rid of this scum bag is to terminate him. Even when he was elected , he remained in office years after his term had expired.

        He does not have the integrity to step down, so he needs to be removed.

      • just
        June 23, 2014, 8:41 pm

        Shingo– you are entitled, of course, to your opinion. I do not “side with the Israelis”.

        btw, the post I found offensive was the one you posted @ 743 pm.

      • Shingo
        June 23, 2014, 8:53 pm

        I do not “side with the Israelis”.

        Like it or not, if you are defending Abbas and the PA, then you are siding with the occupation.

        btw, the post I found offensive was the one you posted @ 743 pm

        I can understand that, but if you read it, you would understand that I am conflicted and beyond despair. The Arab world seems to have mastered the art of making all the wrong decisions, the wrong moves, and adopted every self defeating policy they could possibly have implemented. I know it’s unfair to speak of the Arab world as a collective, but as they say, you get the leaders you deserve.

        Imagine what a massive force the Arab world would be is they weren’t trying to undermine each other, fighting over moronic interpretations of the Quran, money and power and who gets to sit on a fu&king throne in Riyadh or allowing the West to divide and rule them like a bunch of medieval half wits?

        Washington, the EU and Israel would treat the place a lot differently. As Walid has pointed out, instead of demonstrating in the streets demanding justice for Palestine, the Arab world is cowered into submission because of Ryadh. It’s disgusting.
        Really? These people are their own worst enemy.

      • yonah fredman
        June 23, 2014, 8:44 pm

        Shingo- Are other leaders of the PLO calling for Abbas’s termination? Have you heard this sentiment widely? Frustration with Abbas is understandable, but do you really want an assassination? Does the Barghouti who’s in Israeli jail favor such an assassination? Is Hamas calling for it? Some things should be yelled at the t.v., but not spoken in public. I cannot see that an assassination would be a positive development for the Palestinian people.

      • Shingo
        June 23, 2014, 8:54 pm

        I cannot see that an assassination would be a positive development for the Palestinian people.

        I don’t see how it could be any worse.

      • just
        June 23, 2014, 9:44 pm

        “Like it or not, if you are defending Abbas and the PA, then you are siding with the occupation.”

        Utter bs.

        “I can understand that, but if you read it, you would understand that I am conflicted and beyond despair.”

        I’m sorry that you are so frustrated– many of us are. I don’t think that by advocating violence or indulging in anti- Arab bigotry that you will help find a solution or justice.

        The Palestinians’ suffering means far more to me than our frustration.

      • Shingo
        June 23, 2014, 9:49 pm

        Utter bs.

        Truth hurts. There is no point disputing the the PA security services was created so that Israel could outsource their security needs in the OT.

        As for my anti Arab bigotry, there is no disputing that Arabs are their own worst enemy.

      • yonah fredman
        June 23, 2014, 9:53 pm

        shingo- says, i don’t see how it could be any worse.

        you sound like a teenager.

      • eljay
        June 24, 2014, 7:49 am

        >> Shingo:

        … The Arab world seems to have mastered the art of making all the wrong decisions, the wrong moves, and adopted every self defeating policy they could possibly have implemented. I know it’s unfair to speak of the Arab world as a collective, but as they say, you get the leaders you deserve.

        Imagine what a massive force the Arab world would be is they weren’t trying to undermine each other, fighting over moronic interpretations of the Quran, money and power and who gets to sit on a fu&king throne in Riyadh or allowing the West to divide and rule them like a bunch of medieval half wits?

        I sometimes wonder the same thing…

  10. piotr
    June 22, 2014, 11:59 am

    I think that there is unequivocal evidence that the government of Israel is flailing irrationally. Even if one accepts their version of the events, that it is necessary to dismantle the “terrorist infrastructure” by closing all Hamas-related preschools etc. and arresting all sympathizers, and trashing Hamas-related institutions like, say, hardware stores, is a necessary self-defensive measure, how to explain trashing offices of foreign news organizations link to rt.com.

    That could be just soldiers on the scene loosing their cool, but when the Cabinet enacts such silly measures like reducing the time Hamasnik prisoners can spend outside their cells to two hours, it is clear that they are going bonkers. And that undermines the credibility of their announcements. (Assuming that we gave them full credibility, and we judge them solely on the basis of the news from the last week.)

  11. Abierno
    June 22, 2014, 12:04 pm

    +972 reports that parts of operation brother’s keeper was planned before the kidnapping. Inquiring minds would wonder about the synchrony of an all out military operation in the territories being planned and the subsequent, fortuitous kidnapping. Is this a warm up for the annexation of the territories, terrorizing the population, mapping the resistance, arresting any who might lead the resistance? More than Hamas leaders leaders have been arrested. Also, Netanyahu and company have done a masterful job of inciting Israeli citizens who chant, “Abduct, expel, liquidate!”

    Reportedly Abbas is going to the Security Council. – he should be counseled, pressured to demand a UN Protectorate for Palestine, noting that the current situation is worse than East Timor or Kosovo – few dispute that the Israeli right is executing a popular mandate for ethnic cleansing, lead by politicians and rabbis, following the dictates of the King’s Torah. Just as in East Timor, Kosovo, religiously justified ethnic cleansing.

    • Annie Robbins
      June 22, 2014, 4:38 pm

      +972 reports that parts of operation brother’s keeper was planned before the kidnapping.

      we reported something to that effect here link to mondoweiss.net ynet:

      The teens’ kidnapping allowed the leadership in Jerusalem do what they were thinking of doing anyway.

      ….It should be clear to both the citizens of Israel and the Palestinians in the West Bank that the operation against Hamas, which spread overnight to Nablus, the nearby refugee camps and the Bethlehem area, was not meant to bring the kidnapped teens’ release, but to thwart a Hamas takeover of the Palestinian Authority and the PLO.

      972 is more explicit link to 972mag.com

      and this

      ‘Parts of West Bank operation were planned ahead of time’

      ……..According to Hadrei Hadarim, the officer stated that the army is intentionally trying to agitate the population in order to provoke stone throwers, which will allow Israeli snipers to kill them. “There was a group of snipers on the roof – an entire unit that moves on the outskirts of Jenin in order to make noise and raise tensions,” he said. “This was actually the true goal: to provoke them into causing disorder, and then put down those causing the disorder.”

      • Blownaway
        June 22, 2014, 6:45 pm

        Its a pretext to occupy all of Palestine…so transparent. Killing all these civilians is not the way to get these boys back if thats what they wanted to do. They are trying to provoke them into killing them to score sick points

      • Abierno
        June 22, 2014, 7:16 pm

        Thanks Annie for the context. The important aspect of the post was suggesting that after Cast Lead, Operation Pillar of Fire and Operation Brother’s Keeper, that Abbas demand a UN protectorate for Palestine. The issue of Israel’s targeting of children as well as violating a multitude of other statutes would suggest the importance of such step. The killing, terror and abuse will not abate without such a protectorate.

        In the tradition of allowing Palestinians to take the lead, I would suggest a Twitter campaign – “#Safe Our Children – #Palestine Protectorate ” or
        “#Safe Palestine – #UN Protectorate”. These are my poor suggestions, I know they can do it better.

  12. Justpassingby
    June 22, 2014, 12:48 pm

    Israeli government is like a mentally sick person assaulting everyone for no reason.

  13. palijustice
    June 22, 2014, 2:04 pm

    That the Israelis would do this is now an expectation . However cruel and vindictive it is, count on them to do it Of course, Netanyahu is a sociopath, this is not new. But how the PA could do this in coordination with them, is almost unimaginable it is so treacherous.

  14. a blah chick
    June 22, 2014, 3:07 pm

    Anyone else feel some déjà vu and that it’s the spring of 1982? Israel shelling southern Lebanon and just looking for any excuse to invade, only the PLO wasn’t cooperating by showing restraint. Then bang the Israeli ambassador gets shot in London. It’s Arafat! It’s the PLO! They’re to blame! Never mind that it was the work of Abu Nidal, a gun for hire.

    Then as now there are distractions to keep the world from focusing on Israel: imploding Iraq; the Ukraine; the World Cup. In ’82 we had the Falklands war. I am not into conspiracy theories but the coincidences do give one pause.

    Anyone else thinking that if this ends in gunplay it will be a replay of the Wachsman case?

  15. piotr
    June 22, 2014, 3:07 pm

    “Inquiring minds would wonder about the synchrony of an all out military operation in the territories being planned and the subsequent, fortuitous kidnapping.”

    The simple answer is that plans for a wave of repressions in occupied territories may well predate the occupation, and surely do not post-date it by much, and they are simply continually updated. If anything, the repressions are milder than in the old days, but old war horses are surely chomping at the bit. For example, it was reported recently that during debate on instituting force feeding for hunger strikers, the intelligence voices were proponents, while the military was against, “trusting that they would be able to handle any security situations stemming from deaths of the hunger strikers”.

    This made me think that provoking “The Third Intifada” was really in the plans, and if anything, the kidnapping (or disappearance) of the three boys made an unwanted and inconvenient complication. Deaths of hunger strikers would be followed by a traditional unambiguously terrorist revenge and IDF would get “mandate” for much harsher “security operations”. More dead, arrested etc. in the first hour than we have seen in the first week. As it is, smart alecs among the Leftist Fifth Column (Ha’aretz) already criticize the operations as pointless, i.e. not advancing the goal of finding the boys. Avenging a barrage of rockets or an explosion at a bus stop is much simpler. A more centrists source pointed out that the incident came just in time to divert the public opinion from the newest affair in the household of the Prime Minister. That led Israel HaYom (Adelson’s rag) to lament that nobody pays attention to the good deeds of Mrs. Prime Minister like visiting the families of the kidnapped boys (her popularity seems to be at par with Lady MacBeth, in spite of efforts by Israel HaYom’s).

    • Walid
      June 22, 2014, 4:26 pm

      “Inquiring minds would wonder about the synchrony of an all out military operation in the territories being planned and the subsequent, fortuitous kidnapping.”

      Inquiring minds would think back to Cast Lead and how it had been pre-planned almost a year in advance; especially with the MFA hiring of former UN Ambassador Dan Gillerman to head a special department within Foreign Affairs devoted to training the staff at all of Israel’s embassies on how to blitz the media all over the world immediately when war would be actually started by Israel.

      Here is Gillerman in an interview himself a few days after the war started lying through his teeth on how the Khamas people were responsible for the war:

  16. seafoid
    June 22, 2014, 3:07 pm

    Israel retaking Ramallah so Israeli Jews can feel a little steam has been let off. Must be the summer heat. I wonder if levels of wife beating in Israel increase when they trash the west Bank.

    And what it does it say about Israel strategically, the dog returning to its vomit ?

    • Pat Nguyen
      June 22, 2014, 4:11 pm

      What a misogynistic comment. I fear for all the women who are in contact with you as you project your own internal demons onto others

      • seafoid
        June 22, 2014, 5:12 pm

        In other countries it spikes with getting dumped out of the world cup

        link to theguardian.com

        Israelis love their violence. I wonder how well they control it in the domestic sphere when Ramallah gets trashed.

      • a blah chick
        June 22, 2014, 5:15 pm

        Exactly what is misogynistic about the comment? Seafoid is asking how Jewish Israeli men can turn their violence off when they get home. It is a valid question.

      • Pat Nguyen
        June 23, 2014, 1:08 am

        You have to do better. Why are you differencing Jewish Israeli men from Jewish non-Israeli men and non-Jewish Israeli men and men who are neither Jewish nor Israeli in the link between violence towards women at home vs. violence depicted elsewhere? Is there even a link among the violence that wife-beaters deliver at home to their wives vs the violence they deliver to others outside the house?

        You play this silly game so you can defend a misogynistic comment.

      • Annie Robbins
        June 23, 2014, 1:29 am

        . Why are you differencing Jewish Israeli men from Jewish non-Israeli men

        hmm, because Jewish non-Israeli men are not plummeting ramallah?

      • tree
        June 23, 2014, 3:56 am

        Exactly what is misogynistic about the comment?

        Pat’s already proven that s/he doesn’t understand the meaning of the term “white man’s burden”. Is it any surprise that s/he doesn’t know what misogynism is either?

      • Shingo
        June 23, 2014, 4:14 am

        Pat’s already proven that s/he doesn’t understand the meaning of the term “white man’s burden”.

        Pat’s probably a Christian Zionists, so that’s hardly surprising.

      • seafoid
        June 23, 2014, 5:21 am

        Pat is a recycled hasbara drone who has cynically chosen a minor variation on Phan Nguyen’s name . Same hasbara crap, polar opposite of Phan’s output.

      • piotr
        June 22, 2014, 6:50 pm

        I agree that this was not a thoughtful remark, but Walid refers to widely known facts that when a population experiences some frustrations, say, massive layoffs, it increases substance abuse, domestic violence etc. My private theory is that that aspect is totally ignored when we discuss effects of long civil wars, and large segments of the population are borderline insane or worse. This is discussed only in the context of OUR WAR VETERANS, but Afghans, Syrians, Iraqis do not have post-traumatic stress syndrome, they are in constant stress, and it shows. I am not sure what happens to wives in “war regions”, but I would conjecture that they do not fare too well. Historically, the impact of a long civil war on human interactions was described by Hobbes in the context of the English civil war in 1650s, so the effects are similar for Muslim and Anglicans.

        The impact on Israel is harder to predict because the stress there stems mostly from the propaganda of fear, rather than actual mayhem. Because in actuality nothing much happens (in terms of mayhem affecting Israelis), this creates a combination of paranoia and complacency that is challenging to analyze.

      • Pat Nguyen
        June 22, 2014, 8:24 pm

        I am struggling in mechanism you are supporting the above post which I will summarize
        1) in many countries, men beat their wives when their team gets eliminated from the World Cup
        2) Israelis love violence
        3) Israel is engaged in military actions in Ramallah
        4) in light of the above, the Israelis are beating their wives

        As a supporter of Israel, her policies, and elected officials, I am happy that this is the argument of those who wish harm on Israel.

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 11:17 pm

        1) in many countries, men beat their wives when their team gets eliminated from the World Cup

        Which ones?

        2) Israelis love violence

        To be precise, they love inflicting it.

        3) Israel is engaged in military actions in Ramallah

        Not so much, more like a purge. Military actions implies they are fighting against an armed opponent.

        4) in light of the above, the Israelis are beating their wives

        Please consult your doctor. They obviously confused your meds with another prescription.

      • Citizen
        June 23, 2014, 3:28 am

        @ Pat Nguyen
        As a supporter of Israel, her policies, and elected officials, what basic rights, if any, should the Palestinians have, as individuals, and as a collective people? Do you also support a fully sovereign state of Palestine?

      • Talkback
        June 23, 2014, 9:59 am

        As a supporter of Israel, her policies, and elected officials, I am happy that this is the argument of those who wish harm on Israel.

        What a sad Hasbara drone you are.

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 11:25 pm

        I agree that this was not a thoughtful remark, but Walid refers to widely known facts that when a population experiences some frustrations, say, massive layoffs, it increases substance abuse, domestic violence etc.

        This is demonstrably true for Israel too. Israel experienced a surge in domestic violence during periods of economic hardship.

      • Walid
        June 23, 2014, 2:40 am

        Hey, piotr, I have enough of my own battles with the Zionists without you erroneously attributing seafoid’s wife-beating comments to me. Kidding aside, I’d take a hit on behalf of seafoid anytime. Pat Nguyen went all out to misconstrue what seafoid was driving at.

      • bintbiba
        June 23, 2014, 1:27 pm

        A little sense of humour is not remiss when situations are stressful. We all need to lighten up a little, eh.. Pat?

      • piotr
        June 24, 2014, 8:32 am

        When you have a war of ideas, you also have a fog of war, friendly fire etc. I salute your manly attitude. By the way, wife beating is not the only type of abuse of interests. Abuse of maids and other help in Netanyahu household was described a number of times, and it can even be germane to the current situation. For example, Netanyahu could be motivated in blowing up the kidnapping out of proportion to divert the attention from the “affair of switched garden furniture”. Of course, a more statesmanship related motivation was that the coalition was wobbly, with Bennet and Likud crazies railing for annexation, settlement expansion or other ways to drive the stake through the heart of the peace process (not allowed, but an unwelcomed zombie), and Lapid recriminating the lack of seriousness in the peace process, but it is a hard call which need was not pressing. I guess that everybody in Israeli establishment needed a change of pace from assorted problems that they had. Take Lapid: it is nice to say something about the peace zombie, one needs to show that he or she is not a clone or a puppet, but then one had to decide to what extend he or she means that. Unless the topic of interest changes, and the problem goes away.

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 11:21 pm

        I fear for all the women who are in contact with you as you project your own internal demons onto others

        Don’t be so modest Pat. I am sure you cheered for Cast Lead, so you have no problem with women being murdered by the hundreds Pat.

      • seafoid
        June 23, 2014, 2:13 am

        “I fear for all the women who are in contact with you as you project your own internal demons onto others”
        link to israelhayom.com

        “A new report released Tuesday by the Association of Rape Crisis Centers in Israel and Women’s International Zionist’s Organization Israel painted a bleak picture of domestic violence and sex crimes in Israel in 2012-2013. The report said that over 200,000 women and 600,000 children are “trapped in a cycle of domestic violence,” and both organizations warned the actual figures are much higher, as thousands of women and children do not report abuse. ”

        My theory is that incidence rates rise when Israel is trashing Gaza or the West Bank. Feel free to disprove it.
        But don’t bother going off on a tangent about misogyny.

        I feel sorry for poor Jewish women in Israel. The culture of violence and rampant individualism is hard on the poor.

      • ziusudra
        June 23, 2014, 3:24 am

        Greetings Pat Nguyen,
        …what a misogynistic comment…..
        Maybe seafoid remembers what the Vietnamese women went through with our heroic GIs?
        ziusudra
        PS You read him falsely, for sooth.

    • Annie Robbins
      June 22, 2014, 4:46 pm

      Israel retaking Ramallah so Israeli Jews can feel a little steam

      haaretz analyist reported the other day that “punishing Hamas” enables the Israeli public to “release steam”. link to haaretz.com

    • Shmuel
      June 23, 2014, 3:09 am

      I wonder if levels of wife beating in Israel increase when they trash the west Bank.

      A perfectly reasonable question (concern trolls notwithstanding). See e.g. link to books.google.it

      • seafoid
        June 23, 2014, 5:26 am

        It’s one of those things they don’t talk about in Israel. It probably hasn’t been studied. Violence is a shared social value- I bet they can’t control it in the domestic sphere. It would be interesting to get an Israeli social worker’s view on the issue.

        Israel is a very disturbed society. Voting for the likes of Lieberman and Likud, running a brutal military occupation, ignoring rampant human rights abuses and still claiming eternal victimhood don’t happen in a vacuum .

      • Shmuel
        June 23, 2014, 5:38 am

        seafoid,

        It’s certainly a part of feminist discourse in Israel, and has indeed been studied, but hey, it’s all “the Arabs'” fault, anyway, right (as per G. Meir’s supercilious quip)?

        Another opportunity to draw attention to the wonderful women and men at New Profile: link to newprofile.org

      • seafoid
        June 23, 2014, 12:04 pm

        Fair enough Shmuel and thanks for another good link but I never see this discussed in non academia as represented by Ha’aretz, for example.

      • Shmuel
        June 23, 2014, 12:11 pm

        I never see this discussed in non academia as represented by Ha’aretz, for example

        And you never will. Haaretz (on occasion – perhaps by someone like Eva Illouz) is about as far toward the mainstream you will get (and that’s not very far). Militarism and violence against women and especially the connection between the two, are “fringe” issues, best left to feminists and post-colonialists.

      • seafoid
        June 23, 2014, 3:05 pm

        And Israel is such a long way behind on post colonial insight. It doesn’t even acknowledge colonialism.

  17. seafoid
    June 22, 2014, 4:11 pm

    The roots of this weekend’s orgy of Jewish violence go back a long way.

    link to ft.com

    “I recalled a conversation in 1991 with Professor Stanley Cohen, the eminent sociologist who died last month. We were discussing IDF human rights abuses, which Cohen worked tirelessly to expose. He turned to talk instead about his profound concern for young Israelis, specifically the brutalising effect that militarisation was having, and would have, on successive generations of young men and women. At the time his concerns seemed misdirected; on reflection what struck me was their prophetic accuracy.”

    And the militaristic brutalization is not something that US Jews get. Al hamdulallah.

    • a blah chick
      June 22, 2014, 4:21 pm

      There was a picture up at 972Mag showing a small demonstration against the onslaught out in front of the Defense Ministry. After it was over some counter-demonstrators beat up two people badly enough that they had to go to the hospital.

      Israeli “democracy” doesn’t understand the concept of free speech or the protection of minorities, be they political, racial, or religious.

      • seafoid
        June 22, 2014, 5:02 pm

        link to haaretz.com

        He continued, “You know, I would suggest to this Presbyterian organization to fly to the Middle East, come and see Israel for the embattled democracy that it is, and then take a bus tour, go to Libya, go to Syria, go to Iraq, see the difference.”

        link to theguardian.com

        “Binyamin Netanyahu will push ahead with a rare change to Israel’s basic laws – which amount to the country’s constitution – to insist Israel is “the nation state of one people only – the Jewish people – and of no other people”.”

        Very strong democracy
        Doesn’t even have a Constitution. Or defined borders.

      • a blah chick
        June 22, 2014, 5:17 pm

        “Binyamin Netanyahu will push ahead with a rare change to Israel’s basic laws – which amount to the country’s constitution – to insist Israel is “the nation state of one people only – the Jewish people – and of no other people”.

        This might be Israel’s 9/11.

      • Shingo
        June 22, 2014, 11:30 pm

        I would suggest to this Presbyterian organization to fly to the Middle East, come and see Israel for the embattled democracy that it is, and then take a bus tour, go to Libya, go to Syria, go to Iraq, see the difference.”

        I would suggest they fly to Gaza and Hebron, where they will see very little difference.

      • piotr
        June 22, 2014, 7:11 pm

        I think that understand those concept, it is more that they do not approve those concept. Although the level of understanding of how the world works seems to be sketchy. For example, the current issue of ynetnews.com has a nice gamut of opinion. Some of it is critical of the government as doing silly stuff (if you truly believe that you can find the kidnapped boys, do not divert soldiers to massive deployments in areas where you do not believe that those boys are), but some critiques, as usual, are for being freier, soft and so on. But consider this: link to ynetnews.com
        “[countries around] would not allow themselves to be suckers like we are. If Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ wife, Umm Mazen, had undergone surgery in a hospital located in the heart of one of their main cities while their citizens were kidnapped, it’s hard to believe that she would have returned home safely so fast.”

        I am ready to give Noah Klieger, the author, 10,000 shekels if he gives me example of a wife of head of state taken from the hospital as a hostage by state authorities (rather than some ISIS gang etc.), say, in the last 100 years. This is a type of stupidity that I learned to expect from Zionist press. While most opinion pieces are not as stupid, the commenting readers clearly like the most rank idiocy most.

  18. crone
    June 22, 2014, 4:47 pm

    The Zionist entity was elected as vice-chair of the UN Special Committee on Decolonization, in a new human rights farce.

    The committee deals with matters related to the Palestinian cause, like probing the Israeli occupation to Palestine, following the international resolutions on this cause and investigating the Israeli violations to the international law and human rights.

    *****

    full article here:

    link to almanar.com.lb

  19. seafoid
    June 22, 2014, 5:33 pm

    the Zionist mentality
    link to haaretz.com
    “In Israel there is a special sensitivity to kidnappings, as we saw in the Gilad Shalit case, and as we are seeing now. But the response should be carefully considered: This is a serious terror attack that requires a harsh response, and those responsible must be found.”

    But Zionists themselves don’t do responsibility.

    And what about this , also from the link

    “The Israeli public is not stupid or naïve”

    #Facepalm.

  20. crone
    June 22, 2014, 7:52 pm

    Israeli Air Strikes Pound Multiple Syrian Army Sites

    Blames Syria for Attack in Golan Heights

    link to news.antiwar.com

  21. Daniel Rich
    June 23, 2014, 6:21 am

    When I read “A teenage boy was killed and two other people were wounded in the first deadly incident along the volatile Israeli-Syrian front since Syria’s civil war erupted more than three years ago. The Israeli vehicle was delivering water as it was doing contract work for Israel’s Defense Ministry when it was struck.

    I thought, “What’s a teenage boy doing in war zone delivering water?”

    Then, a few paragraphs down I found this; “Israeli police identified the boy as Mohammed Karaka, 14, of the Arab village of Arraba in northern Israel. Local media said he had accompanied his father, the truck driver, to work.”

    So, now the Apartheid State cares about Arabs being killed?

    Israel has repeatedly said it holds the Syrian government responsible for any attacks emanating from its territory, regardless of who actually carries them out.

    That’s a good thing, otherwise they had to shoot themselves [most likely] or their AQ buddies.

    LINK

    • just
      June 23, 2014, 7:38 am

      “So, now the Apartheid State cares about Arabs being killed? ”

      Nope. See below: the child was an “Israeli”. Only claimed when he was dead.

      • Jethro
        June 23, 2014, 8:04 am

        But there is no “Israeli” nationality, according to Israel.

      • Daniel Rich
        June 23, 2014, 5:47 pm

        @ just,

        If you step on a cockroach inside my house, can I bomb the shit out of you, claiming to be a star with wings?

        The ‘el’ in my name mostly feels like a devil’s child…

    • yonah fredman
      June 23, 2014, 7:55 am

      The phrase “demographic threat” is too near my lips to assert that Israel values its nonJewish citizens. (near my lips but not near my heart? near my fears and not near my hopes!). But Israel guards its borders and anyone within its borders, citizen or not (he was a citizen), valued or not, who is injured by foreign violence will result in a response to the threat to Israel’s sovereignty.

      • Jethro
        June 23, 2014, 8:01 am

        Can I remind everyone that those are NOT Israel’s borders? The Golan Heights is in Syria.

      • just
        June 23, 2014, 8:12 am

        Yes it is, Jethro.

      • yonah fredman
        June 23, 2014, 8:12 am

        Jethro- You’re right. Israel guards its cease fire lines, is what I should have written.

      • Shmuel
        June 23, 2014, 8:05 am

        But Israel guards its borders and anyone within its borders, citizen or not (he was a citizen), valued or not, who is injured by foreign violence will result in a response to the threat to Israel’s sovereignty.

        So why does it remind me of this old joke? link to jewishjokes.org

      • just
        June 23, 2014, 8:12 am

        That’s good, Shmuel.

      • bintbiba
        June 23, 2014, 1:41 pm

        Priceless ,Shmuel !!

      • just
        June 23, 2014, 9:32 am

        Which “borders” are you referring to?

  22. just
    June 23, 2014, 7:03 am

    “Ten people were killed in when the Israel Air Force struck several military targets in neighboring Syria early on Monday, the head of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.

    The Israeli strikes were made in response to Sunday’s cross-border missile shooting, which killed an Israeli teenager and wounded his father and two other civilians.”


    Rami Abdel Rahman, head of the British-based organization, told DPA that the strikes destroyed two tanks and seven army posts. Earlier Monday, a Syrian opposition operative said that the Israeli strikes caused severe damage to Syrian army tanks, armored personnel carriers and a command center.

    The Syrian government did not immediately issue a response to the attack.

    An IDF officer told Haaretz the strikes were carried out using both Tamuz guided missiles and IAF jets.

    On Sunday, an Israel Defense Forces officer said it was not known whether Syrian government forces or rebels fired the anti-tank missile, though the segment of the border fence where it landed is under rebel control. ”

    link to haaretz.com

    RIP, child. RIP unknown dead.

    What is Israel doing? Resuming war? They just kill at will, it seems.

  23. HarryLaw
    June 23, 2014, 7:12 am

    The Deputy Defence Minister Danny Danon now advocates additional war crimes already committed by Israel in Palestine, saying on Sunday, Israel should cut off electricity to all Palestinians, who, unless Danon does not know are under military occupation and are protected persons under the Geneva Conventions. Requests for protection from these fanatics must be made to the United Nations and if not forthcoming the Palestinians will have to find ways to protect themselves. link to timesofisrael.com

  24. just
    June 23, 2014, 9:07 am

    “Signs of intifada emerge, but this time it’s aimed at Abbas, too

    A Fatah member considered a loyalist of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas told me over the weekend that he and his teenage son had bitterly quarreled. The subject: the boy’s Facebook posts that harshly criticized Abbas.

    Fearing reprisals from people on the street, the man convinced his son to delete some of the posts and tone down others. But he understood the anger of his son and his generation.

    “This is a generation that grew up after the Oslo Accords and was fairly young during the second intifada. This generation cheered Abu Mazen (Abbas) when he spoke from the UN podium asking for recognition from the world and the international community — a generation that innocently thought a Palestinian state was within reach and now feels that everything has blown up,” the Fatah member said.

    “At the moment of truth there is no state and no sovereignty. It’s the same cruel occupation, the same checkpoints, the same settlements that are expanding before [my son’s] and his friends’ eyes. The same army, the same terrible midnight visits and searches — everything under the pretext of security,” the Fatah member said, adding that the current situation will boomerang on everyone. ”

    link to haaretz.com

    Looks like divide and conquer to me…Israel’s strategy at work again.

    • Walid
      June 23, 2014, 3:55 pm

      It’s being reported that Israel is doing more than house to house searches on the WB, it’s vandalizing the homes they are searching by breaking furniture and appliances. Breaking people’s furniture will surely not help find the missing kids. This is punishment pure and simple for the agreement signed with Hamas.

      Also, that when the Israeli soldiers entered Ramallah, they began by sequestering the Palestinian police to one side of town or in their barracks. As the soldiers advanced deeper into the city, they were chased off by stone-throwing Palestinians. As soon as the soldiers retreated, the Palestinian police moved in with force on the protesters. Great coordination between the IDF soldiers and the Palestinian police.

      And the Palestinians leader instead of heading to the UN, went to Moscow today.

      • Shingo
        June 23, 2014, 7:32 pm

        As soon as the soldiers retreated, the Palestinian police moved in with force on the protesters. Great coordination between the IDF soldiers and the Palestinian

        Again more evidence Abbas is part of the problem. to put a bullet into the back of this scum bag’s head andake way for a real leader.

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