Massacre in Gaza: At least 60 killed in Shuja’iyeh, over 60,000 in UN shelters

Israel/Palestine
on 363 Comments
Destroyed ambulance in the neighborhood of Shuja'ieyh in eastern Gaza City. (Photo: Lazar Simeonov)

Destroyed ambulance in the neighborhood of Shuja’ieyh in eastern Gaza City. (Photo: Lazar Simeonov)

Israeli forces heavily shelled the eastern Gaza City neighborhood of Shuja’iyeh last night killing 63 Palestinians, including at least 17 children, and causing thousands to seek shelter in United Nations facilities. This latest attack brings the total number of Palestinians killed since Operation Protective Edge began on July 8, 2014 to more than 350. Over 63,173 are now living in UNRWA shelters across Gaza, nearly 10,000 more than the number of Palestinians made refugees after Operation Cast Lead in 2008-09.

Medhat Abbas, Director General of the Ministry of Health in Gaza said there are “at least 60 dead in Shuja’iyeh only, and hundreds wounded.” He added, “I don’t have the number now because there is no electricity, no nothing.” Dr. Abbas is directing services his ministry usually handles to the overloaded al-Shifa hospital. “The Israeli aggression against civilians should be stopped,” said al-Shifa’s hospital administrator Dr. Hasan Khalas who confirmed that 112 Palestinians were killed across Gaza last night. “The bloodshed and blood in Gaza’s streets,” he added was the responsibility of the international community, “Because of the international decision to put a siege on Gaza, and this is a result of that. We should not continue to live under siege and just be killed continuous.”

According to Haaretz reporter Anshel Pfeffer an IDF officer described last night’s onslaught on Shuja’iyeh as Israel “taking off the gloves.” There are unconfirmed reports that 13 Israeli soldiers were killed in the fighting. (Update: News of the death of 13 Israeli soldiers has now been made public by the Israeli military.)

Palestinians in Shuja'ieyh neighborhood fleeing from Israeli shelling and gunshots earlier this morning. (Photo: Lazar Simeonov)

Palestinians in Shuja’ieyh neighborhood fleeing from Israeli shelling and gunshots earlier this morning. (Photo: Lazar Simeonov)

“There are thousands of people fleeing, and heavy shelling until a couple of hours ago,” said the Daily Beast‘s Jesse Rosenfeld who had just left the carnage the Gazan city’s most intensely fired upon region. Other journalists confirmed bodies were stacked in piles in Gaza’s al-Shifa hospital, the largest medical facility in the besieged coastal strip, and even bodies stacked in Shuja-iyeh’s war torn streets. Palestinian photojournalist Khaled Hamad, 25, was killed while riding with Red Crescent emergency responders, and medic Fouad Jaber, 28, was killed in the line of duty.

Warning graphic video of carnage in Shuja-iyeh:

(Click to enlarge)

(Click to enlarge)

Shuja’iyeh is adjacent to the separation barrier between Israeli and Gaza, just east of Gaza City in the map to the right. Because of its proximity to the buffer zone the Israeli army is able to make incursions into the area with one side protected. The Israeli army claims that Shuja’iyeh is responsible for 8% of the rockets launched from Gaza, and that Gaza City is the largest single rocket launching region in Gaza.

Shuja’iyeh has been a focus of the Israeli onslaught on Gaza. Civilians, specially children carry the brunt of the casualties–even before the ground invasion began. Notably el-Wafa Rehabilitation Hospital which is located in this area was fired upon on two occasions, causing the staff and its disabled patients to evacuate under shelling days ago. Ambulances have been unable to reach the wounded due to Israeli fire. The Israeli military warned residents of the area, letting them know a massacre was on the way:

Shuja'iyeh neighborhood in eastern Gaza City. (Photo: Lazar Simeonov)

Shuja’iyeh neighborhood in eastern Gaza City. (Photo: Lazar Simeonov)

 

363 Responses

  1. just
    July 20, 2014, 10:05 am

    This is genocide and terrorism.

    I am so very sorry for the agony of the beautiful Palestinian people.

  2. bijou
    July 20, 2014, 10:14 am

    Le Figaro is reporting 15 Israeli soldiers dead in “one of the bloodiest nights in years for the Israeli Army.”

    link to lefigaro.fr

    Seems that this will be a watershed point on all sides.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      July 20, 2014, 10:23 am

      I just saw that.

      If true, it would ‘explain’ the particularly virulent nature of the Israeli attack. Zionism is extraordinarily vengeful. David Hirst reported that, in Beirut in 1982, Sharon would call up air strikes killing dozens or even hundreds, in a fit of rage or pique. For the Israelis every one of their ‘elite’ professional killers is worth a hundred Palestinians.

      • seafoid
        July 20, 2014, 11:44 am

        They live on revenge. And I hope they continue to separate meat and dairy. Have to get the priorities right.

      • subconscious
        July 20, 2014, 5:49 pm

        seafoid:

        I hope they continue to separate meat and dairy. Have to get the priorities right.

        The meat-dairy separation, as far as I know, originates in the Biblical command “Thou shalt not cook a kid in his mother’s milk.” (By “kid,” of course, is meant a baby goat, not a human one, for which no boiling medium is specifically ruled out.) Subsequent rabbinic law expanded the injunction considerably, such as to include poultry and dairy: “Do not cook a chick in its mother’s milk!”
        When I first came across this biblical injunction, my immediate impression was of an attempt to engender empathy towards food animals; be mindful of the suffering and deprivation inflicted on the slaughtered young animal and its mother, denied a nurturing opportunity. It’s, of course, symbolic, as you are killing the kid, anyhow.
        So, some of those who observe this injunction fastidiously, would, nevertheless, not hesitate to kill human kids and adults indiscriminately, under whatever pretext, without much regard. Observe a law or ritual, but reject the spirit or the underlying moral message of it.

      • kalithea
        July 20, 2014, 11:00 pm

        Outstanding point made on the archaic and extremely hypocritical nature of such religious rituals.

    • Elisabeth
      July 20, 2014, 10:26 am

      I don’t care about those Israeli soldiers. They are guilty for going there. They have the right to refuse don’t they? It is not as if they will be shot if they refuse. Bloody killers.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 10:33 am

        I don’t care about them either, but the Israeli public does. Their deaths are a drop in the ocean compared to the massive number of Palestinian casualties, but Israel has no stomach for deaths among ‘their own’. If it’s true that 15 ‘elite’ IDF soldiers have been killed in one night, that’s a big deal.

      • bijou
        July 20, 2014, 10:42 am

        Exactly.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 11:11 am

        Seems Netanyahu will give a speech live on Israeli TV at 8 this evening.

        I wonder why? It won’t be to explain the 70 or so Palestinian deaths – most Israelis couldn’t care less. Perhaps he is to put on his best solemn voice and announce the loss of 15 courageous heroes battles khamas terrorists. He will tell the brave Israeli people to be steadfast in the face of such agonising loss….. or maybe not. Should be interesting, and probably stomach-churning, to hear what he has to say.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 11:37 am

        It’s been confirmed. 13 members of the ‘elite’ Golani brigade killed last night in Gaza.

        Like I say, I will not mourn their deaths and the number of Israeli victims – almost all of them combatants – is still tiny compared to that on the Palestinian side. But this will hit Israel hard. They’re used to having things their own way, with ‘war’ as a kind of high-tech video game. If this goes on, Bibi will be crawling to the US looking for a ceasefire. But Hamas won’t accept one which doesn’t involve a lifting of the siege.

        And tragically, whatever happens, the ones who suffer will be innocent Palestinians.

      • Citizen
        July 20, 2014, 10:52 am

        @ Elisabeth
        As somebody who was of ripe male age when the US had military conscription, I don’t agree with you. Further, when my Irish ancestors got off the boat in America, fleeing famine aided immensely by Brit government, they were conscripted into the Union army. At that time, wealthy folks could buy a replacement, but not those poor Irish immigrants. Much later, during the Vietnam War Era, it was a more sophisticated version of the same thing: college deferments. Chaney, for one, a war hawk if there ever was one, took full advantage of this. Bush Jr took advantage too, by being in the National Guard, which was a refuge back than from getting involved as a participating military soldier. I give lots of respect to the IDF soldiers who, although conscripted, speak out in Breaking The Silence. In short, I do care about those Israeli soldiers, because they are conscripts, and brainwashed from birth, just like America did during the Vietnam War era, and check into how the Irish were treated in USA; they formed a disproportionate number of US troops in Civil War, and both WW1 & WW2, although they were once considered subhuman. Slanted Irony: the Irish Americans contributed more cannon fodder for WW2 than any other ethnic group–except the German Americans. I wish the Jewish Americans would be as American as the German Americans. Put this country first. German Americans literally fought Germans, in USA behalf, in behalf equal rights. Can’t Jewish Americans fight against Israel’s wars crimes in the same way? At least by their voices? Nobody’s asking them to fight HAMAS literally.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 1:15 pm

        They are NOT conscripts – and even if they were, they’re still soldiers and therefore legitimate targets. They are members of the professional Golani brigade.

        Do you think any of them give a damn about Palestinian casualties? Of course not, they were there to inflict them. And even if one is ‘brainwashed’, you still have a choice. These men chose to serve in a brutal occupation army, and as such have to live or die with the consequences.

      • Citizen
        July 20, 2014, 5:35 pm

        @ MDM
        I read that the Golani brigade is composed mostly of jewish conscripts and arab volunteers. Apparently it has a ton of prestige in Israel.

      • peeesss
        July 21, 2014, 2:32 am

        r. “I give lots of respect to the IDF soldiers who, although conscripted, speak out in Breaking The Silence.” In Israel everybody over the age of 18 does mandatory service in their armed forces.{ except for some of the Orthodox persuasion} We are talking over the years of millions of willing Jewish men and women, Breaking the Silence , a very laudable group, consist of , 1-200 people. The vast , vast majority of Israeli conscripts and enlisted men and women, serve loyally and without questioning the propriety of their duties. Many , if not most , serve in the occupied territories , where , as Breaking the Silence documents, acts of humiliation, beatings, torture, murder are common are the norm, are orders, are accepted, are encouraged. The Golani Brigade are an “elite” unit. Elite if you mean completely unhinged, violent, and known for their total disregard of human rights, laws of war. To equate , somehow, the deaths of willing Israeli soldiers, who have invaded once again the occupied territory of Palestine{Gaza} worthy of commiseration , I understand as a moral , humane person. But they are soldiers INVADING , illegally, a besieged , occupied, oppressed civilian population, inflicting horrific violence and death and destruction to the impoverished people of Gaza, 50% children , and almost entirely a civilian, entrapped people. Your sympathies should be with these defenseless people facing the horror of the mightily armed Israeli soldiers who , from all accounts , show no mercy , and obey the orders. Being sympathetic to soldiers who die in battle , as I said, is understood as a humane moral quest. However, I find it hard to sympathize with any armed force , soldiers that matter openly destroy homes, hospitals, mosques, schools, electric grids, water sewage plants, crops, chicken farms, and homes of defenseless human beings.
        As for the two US citizens who lost their lives as enlisted men in the service of a foreign government. Of course they and the Israeli soldiers have been nurtured, apparently, on the hasbara , and possibly the teachings of their community leaders and schools. Their loyalty to a foreign govt. obviously was more important than to the land of their birth, They too were part of this Zionist force that was, is , besieging the occupied people of Palestine.
        My humanity bleeds for all but I must say not equally. The unarmed men women and children of Palestine deserve your sympathy and attention and understanding foremost before the armed, enforcers of this brutal regime called Israel.

      • ziusudra
        July 21, 2014, 4:27 am

        Greetings Citizen,
        …fighting for the US……
        Had you been in the US betw. 1848 & 1921, you would have helped your ancestry back in Ireland in one way or another and that’s positive.
        Me surrogate Dad was our Irish American Counsler John Malloy, in St. Joseph’s Home in Peekskill, N.Y. in the 40s. who gave us Kids an Irish Heart from his positive actions.
        ziusudra

      • jd65
        July 20, 2014, 12:56 pm

        To Elisabeth and Maximus: It’s your right to “not care” about the dead Israeli soldiers. But I do care about them. It’s awful that they died in this conflict/conquest. However, at the same time, I will say absolutely that their deaths are completely their own fault and responsibility; and also the fault and responsibility of the Israeli government and, yes, the U.S. government. I would lay approximately 0% of the blame on Hamas for their deaths. But that’s just me, and yes I do care about them as human beings.

        On a colder, more practical note, I feel that you two (Elisabeth and Maximus) should take more “care” in what you write. I’m certain you are aware of the giant, relentless and manipulative Hasbara machine. And I’m sure you are aware of its importance in the continuation of the occupation/conquest. Comments like yours out here in the internets are helping them w/ the Israeli PR war/campaign. They can point to your comments and simply say, “Look! They don’t care about Jews dying. We have to defend ourselves against the new anti-semitism, look what what we’re up against, blah blah blah etc etc etc…” Whether they’re being simplistic in their criticisms (of course they are…) of your comments or not isn’t the point. You’re giving them the opportunity to say it and people eat it up. Is that what you want? Not trying to come off harsh, but I honestly feel that comments like yours are helping the israelis and that’s the last thing I personally want. I assume the same for you two…

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 1:13 pm

        Are you being serious? These are adult men who CHOSE to go and fight in a brutal occupation army. They’re not even conscripts – the Golani Brigade is an ‘elite’ unit of career soldiers. If you choose to enlist in an army, there’s always the possibility that you will be killed in action. Of course, this being the IDF, they likely thought that they’d just get to play high-tech computer games, pressing buttons and watching Palestinians die from a safe distance. But that didn’t happen.

        What do you think these men were in Gaza to do? Distribute medicines? No, they went there to kill, and kill as indiscriminately as possible. But instead of killing – although they may very well have killed Palestinians before their own deaths – they were killed by the resistance. And we are supposed to ‘care’ about them? Since when do soldiers killed in battle evoke sympathy?

        As for your claim that the Zionist hoodlums will seize on our comments, again, I couldn’t give a toss. They invent and misinterpret stuff all the time, and – at best – coldly shrug off the deaths of children. So I’m not going to feign concern for trained killers who were killed by the resistance, for fear of being labelled ‘anti-semitic’ – which every single person who supports the Palestinian cause is labelled as anyway.

        So hasbarists are allowed to applaud the deaths of children, but we’re not allowed to be unconcerned about the deaths of members of an invading army? Please.

      • samlebon2306
        July 20, 2014, 4:56 pm

        You’re right Maximus. Many young Israelis refused to serve and they are serving jail time for their decision.

      • Donald
        July 20, 2014, 3:37 pm

        Maximus, I’d put it this way–I feel some sorrow (not that it matters at this late date) for Confederate soldiers or even young Germans who were part of the invasion of the USSR (which probably saw the greatest concentration of war crimes in history). They were raised in a hopelessly racist societies based on the telling of gigantic lies that permeated everything in society. It’d be nice to think that if I had lived in that era I’d have been a secret member of the Underground Railroad in the American South, or that I’d have refused military service or secretly tried to hide Jews from the Nazis. But most people in most societies are not moral giants.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 3:45 pm

        Again, you’re not reading my posts. These guys were ‘elite’ career soldiers. They chose to make a life out of killing. But that’s OK because they were ‘indoctrinated’? Are we back to the ”Israelis as victims even when they’re killers’ line? Sounds like something I’d read in the hasbara handbook, not Mondoweiss.

        And I think a better comparison is with white South Africans, not Germans in the Nazi era. These guys may be ‘indoctrinated’ but they are free to travel and access international media. Many of them WERE born abroad. But they want to preserve their racial priviliges at the expense of Palestinian lives. They do not deserve my pity, just my contempt.

      • Donald
        July 21, 2014, 12:33 am

        Who said anything about their decisions being okay? I said elsewhere that we should condemn the atrocities and crimes that Israeli soldiers commit. I think the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves against Israeli soldiers. But it’s dehumanizing not to mourn the loss of life–I don’t care whose death it is.

        There’s a Ramadan “sermon” (not sure what the correct term is) that I found by way of Andrew Sullivan’s blog that fits in nicely here. Not my religion, but I agree with the thoughts expressed.

        link

      • aiman
        July 21, 2014, 6:30 am

        “But most people in most societies are not moral giants.”

        That’s not true. One doesn’t have to be a moral giant to refuse military service or hide Jews from the Nazis. It’s very easy and human to do those things. That’s what we should say, because what you say becomes. I’d say it’s very hard not to follow basic decency which is all these examples require. To raise the bar high stunts man’s goodness which has reached far higher than this. In this case, it excuses those rallying to Netanyahu’s belligerence. It reminds me of when people talk of war being a human condition. It is not, and this sort of rhetoric only feeds lethargy and apathy to put it mildly.

      • Citizen
        July 20, 2014, 5:58 pm

        Of the 13 IDF dead so far, two were young Jewish American volunteers: link to breitbart.com

      • Djinn
        July 20, 2014, 10:09 pm

        A growing number of people around the world are tired of speaking about the occupation, siege and bombardments in terms that will not upset Zionists.

        The expectation that we all share in their shooting and crying is always ridiculous but while burnt and butchered bodies litter the streets in Shuja’iyeh it is thoroughly grotesque.

        These were not poor conscripts, this was the Golani Brigade. Well known for war crimes. Which they committed in spades last night.

        If someone broke into my home, armed to the teeth & killed my children before I managed to kill them, would people call for everyone to feel for the dead killer as a human being? In no other conflict is the outright aggressor treated as a victim.

      • Elisabeth
        July 20, 2014, 1:33 pm

        I am not sure where my answer will end up, but this is in response to several of the thoughtful and good comments below (or above):

        My reaction was written in incredible anger. This anger has been building up for years, as I am sure is the case with most of you, but the lasts months were really the last drop. (And the absolute heartlessenss of 90% or more of the comments at Israeli newssites does not help either.)
        I know they have families and I know they must have felt very scared, and that they did not deserve to die (certainly not for Netanyahu), but the thing is: I just cannot feel for them, at least not just now….

        ps
        (The news of the Golani deaths is new to me, so my comment was not in reaction to that.)

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 2:38 pm

        ” they did not deserve to die”

        They were part of an invasion force which has killed hundreds of civilians in a week. What fate did they ‘deserve’? Do you think it would have been better if they had been allowed to continue to slaughter civilians? Isn’t death an occupational hazard when you join a brutal army?

      • Elisabeth
        July 20, 2014, 3:09 pm

        What bothers me Maximus, about my own position, is that they have been indoctrinated fron childhood.

      • jd65
        July 20, 2014, 4:09 pm

        Hey Maximus. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you read my postings which included these excerpts:

        “I will say absolutely that their deaths are completely their own fault and responsibility; and also the fault and responsibility of the Israeli government and, yes, the U.S. government. I would lay approximately 0% of the blame on Hamas for their deaths.”

        “[Zionism and Israel] are all bad. One of the most horrifically ironic historical events/facts in the history of history. Truly disgusting.”

        “[Maximus], no doubt, shares the same anger we have against Israel’s grotesque policies, colonization, and killing. I understand his inability to care about Israeli casualties.”

        Assuming you read that stuff, you were still able to aim this at myself:

        “It’s quite interesting that you seem to have a lot more to say about occupation soldiers killed in battle than about the hundreds of Palestinian civilians who were their victims.”

        Implying that I value Israeli/Jewish lives more than Palestinian lives, without knowing the first thing about me aside from these few posts here, is so extremely offensive to me that I certainly won’t be engaging w/ you any longer. Your implication is unfortunate, wildly incorrect, and quite frankly, gross.

      • jd65
        July 20, 2014, 2:56 pm

        Thanks Elisabeth. Yes, I totally understand and share your incredible anger. For me, Cast Lead was the breaking point. Maybe “Protective Edge” is yours. I no longer see any good coming from “Zionism” or the creation of Israel and it’s make me sick as an American jew. It’s all bad. One of the most horrifically ironic historical events/facts in the history of history. Truly disgusting. However, even w/ all my anger, and even w/ all the facts about Israel’s total culpability in the events occurring right now and all along this conflict since the early 20th century, I can still muster the intellectual ability to understand that saying you “don’t care” about a person being killed – even if this person is a soldier on the wrong side of history – is morally wrong. From your post in response to mine it would seem you feel the same and for that I’m happy. From Maximus’s response above to my post, it would seem he does not feel the same. He, no doubt, shares the same anger we have against Israel’s grotesque policies, colonization, and killing. I understand his inability to care about Israeli casualties. But I don’t share it…

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 3:07 pm

        ”I can still muster the intellectual ability to understand that saying you “don’t care” about a person being killed – even if this person is a soldier on the wrong side of history – is morally wrong. ”

        Sorry, what ‘intellectual ability’ are you referring to? I see nothing intellectually inferior about saying that if someone chooses to make a career out of serving in an army which has killed thousands of innocent civilians, and took part in an operation designed to kill many more, then I’m not going to cry if that person is, for once, on the wrong side of a bullet. Would you prefer if he had lived to kill yet more Palestinians?

        It’s quite interesting that you seem to have a lot more to say about occupation soldiers killed in battle than about the hundreds of Palestinian civilians who were their victims.

      • Donald
        July 20, 2014, 3:27 pm

        jd65–

        I think you’re right. I feel disgust with Israel and if anyone says these soldiers died because they were killed by “terrorists”, I may lose my temper, but yes, it is tragic when people die in war. The hasbarists say this as an excuse for the killing of Palestinian children by Israel, and when they say it is an obscenity, but I think it is tragic when people die for a lie, as Kerry once said about American soldiers in Vietnam. The Israeli soldiers are dying for a lie–many or most or all might have been brought up on that lie and it’s hard for most people to break free of the indoctrination that is part of their society.

        In the long run, we’re the side that hopes everyone can live together in peace and even come to respect and like each other. The Israeli side has a very long way to go, to recognize that their country was based on the willingness to drive people out of their homes, but I think we can probably help them along just a bit by showing compassion for all deaths. That of course doesn’t mean pulling our punches about their war crimes, racism, and practice of apartheid.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 3:33 pm

        Elizabeth,

        ”they have been indoctrinated fron childhood.”

        And yet some Isarelis manage to break free of that indoctrination. Not many, but a few. Your line of thinking implies that adults do not have responsibility for their actions if they have been ‘indoctrinated’. These men CHOSE to sign up for a notoriously brutal ‘brigade’. They CHOSE to fight in a war which has already killed hundreds of innocents. And I’m supposed to feel sorry for them? Nah.

        If they had lived, it’s highly likely they would have killed Palestinians, and felt absolutely no remorse. In fact, they’d probably have been very happy about it. So please, don’t ask me to care about these trained killers. You’ve never heard of the phrase ‘Live by the sword, die by the sword’? These men chose to live by the sword – or rather, the heavily armoured tank and F16 – and very likely have Palestinian blood on their hands. This time, they were at the wrong end of the sword. You’re going to have to forgive me for not shedding tears over them.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 4:26 pm

        Jd65,

        I’m not implying that you value Israelis lives more than Palestinian lives, and I’m sorry if my post could have been read that way.

        But yes, I do think it odd that, when nearly 1oo Palestinians have been murdered in 24 hours, you think it ‘intellectually inferior’ that some of us are not crying over the deaths of IDF soldiers. These men chose to sign up for a brutal regiment in a brutal army. Had they lived, they would very likely have killed yet more Palestinians. It is precisely the fact that Israel is able to kill without consequence that has enabled them to carry out massacres like this on a regular basis.

        So no, I’m not going to mourn these deaths, and I don’t see anything ‘intellectually inferior’ in that position. Anyway, I’ve said what I have to say on this, so maybe best to move on.

      • Elisabeth
        July 20, 2014, 5:26 pm

        jd65: I agree.
        (I should not read those comments in Israeli newspapers: They make me hate the population in general.)

      • oldgeezer
        July 21, 2014, 1:42 am

        Not specfically in reply to jd65 but if I may….

        I don’t think that the two emotions are mutually exclusive.

        I am sorry those soldiers had to die. I am sorry they were born/raised/immigrated into such a screwed up, and racist, country. I’m sorry that the inverted morality prevalent in Israel today taught them that they were doing the right thing by becoming involved in the oppression and killing of others. How screwed up could you possibly be. Having lost many loved ones, I feel for the families, even though they were likely responsible, in large part, for the lack of morals imparted to their children.

        I am glad Hamas managed to make a good strike back at Israel and take out individuals intent on killing civilians and enforcing oppression on others. The bloodier the nose the sooner this will end. The sooner it ends then the more lives will be saved.

        Now I have likely upset both sides but I really do hold both those views at the same time.

    • Walid
      July 20, 2014, 12:01 pm

      Update (Figaro’s) from 90 minutes back says Israel has confirmed 13 dead. But there’s more dead, but Israel is not telling. Israel also saying 50 injured but hospital director in Negev said he treated 150 soldiers and officers in the last 3 days.

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 12:06 pm

        I know why they are not telling the truth, but isn’t it remarkable that they lie all of the time– about everything.

      • a blah chick
        July 20, 2014, 12:10 pm

        I think Mr. Sara is in deep deep trouble. The body bags are piling up and what does he have to show for it? The missiles keep flying and unless they invade they can’t possibly claim to have sealed all the “terror tunnels.” This has the makings of a major fiasco. I would cheer his political fall except that whoever comes along in his wake will be even move ruthless and homicidal.

      • Elisabeth
        July 20, 2014, 1:40 pm

        Why the name Mr Sara?
        The ‘henpicked husband’ is a mysogynist theme, don’t you agree? Because it implies that the man-of-the-house should be the boss.
        But maybe I misunderstand what ‘Mr Sara’ means.

      • a blah chick
        July 20, 2014, 8:20 pm

        I call him “Mr Sara” because I like to give disrespectful nicknames to politicians I do not like. I called a recent U.S. President “Idiot Man Child” (guess who that was.) I chose “Mr Sara” for Natanyahu because I learned that his wife has had too much influence in the choosing of appointments. And also because I could not think of a better one.

  3. iResistDe4iAm
    July 20, 2014, 10:18 am

    Blood Condominiums

    Will the next thousand settlement houses be worth the blood and limbs of the dead and the wounded?
    Are the last thousand settlement houses worth the torment and tears of the tortured and the aggrieved?
    Were the first thousand cleansed houses worth the screams and despair of the ghosts and the dispossessed?

    • just
      July 20, 2014, 10:47 am

      Haunting questions for people who have a soul.

      I don’t think that the rabid Israelis do.

      Just look at what’s happening to the Israelis who speak out– they are attacked, beaten, vilified and spat upon by their fellow citizens and police. Knesset members are thrown out. Gideon Levy has taken leave. Another Haaretz reporter (can’t remember his name just now) wants to leave Israel period.

      • seafoid
        July 20, 2014, 11:45 am

        Sayed Kashua

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 12:04 pm

        Thanks so much, seafoid. His article was searing, and I so wanted to credit him with his name.

  4. Qualtrough
    July 20, 2014, 10:19 am

    The article says a tank was destroyed by a Sagger missile. I certainly hope that those defending Gaza have a lot more of those.

    • Walid
      July 20, 2014, 11:56 am

      Israel is still bogged down 300 meters within Gaza and doesn’t dare advance because it knows what’s waiting for it on the inside. The cowards simply continue shelling civilian areas from far.

      Israel has now admitted to having 13 dead; still another 20 that need to be admitted-to.

      • aiman
        July 20, 2014, 12:05 pm

        Thanks for the updates Walid. Netanyahu must not have expected so many dead soldiers. The bad thing is that this will send them in a psychotic rage and they will target more Palestinian civilians.

      • MahaneYehude1
        July 20, 2014, 1:54 pm

        @Walid:

        I noticed that you use the word “admit” many times. Israel always announces the soldiers who fell in battle, but it usually takes a few hours to one day. The reason for this is simple: In Judaism, a deceased person must be identified by his family. Till this process is not complete, Israel doesn’t announce about the dead soldiers. Moreover, Israel doesn’t announce soldiers were killed before the final identification in order not to cause stress to thousands of families who have soldiers at the front. In case many soldiers died, like today, this process of identification is relatively long.

      • Marnie
        July 20, 2014, 2:49 pm

        Please refrain from the “In Judaism” bit, as if belief in God is part of the state of israel. I haven’t seen any evidence of God consciousness or righteousness, but a whole lot of lip service.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 3:16 pm

        ” In Judaism….”

        Aww, isn’t that cute, Zionists have Judaism as their pet to lead around on a leash.
        And look, it’s Rebbe Yehude, speaking for Judaism. Oh well, can’t say Zionists lack presumption. As was noted long ago, it goes “beyond chutzpah“!

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 4:28 pm

        give me a break MY1. Your boys don’t have dogtags?

      • kalithea
        July 20, 2014, 11:34 pm

        Oh, how delicate and pious of these Zionists! Meanwhile, Palestinians bodies are decomposing on shujaiyeh’s streets because ambulances get blown up by these same delicate, pious Zionist trained killers and are unable to collect all the bodies!

      • oldgeezer
        July 21, 2014, 1:47 am

        I understand MY. It’s a matter of respect for tradition, the dead and the families. I do get that.

        And it’s also because Israel is not a democracy but a combination theocracy and ethnocracy.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 3:11 pm

        Zion ist have shelled and mortared “Arab” civilians since before there was even an Israel. Shelling civilians is one their oldest traditions.

      • Daniel Rich
        July 21, 2014, 2:30 am

        @Walid,

        I want to thank you for being such a voice of reason amidst this torrent of angry exchanges, even under the duress of one painful news articles/social network messaging after another.

        You are a true oasis in the dreaded, desolate desert, where death does not lurk in the shadows any longer, for it now owns the blood soaked land.

        Thank you!

        :[]: = big hug

  5. Kay24
    July 20, 2014, 10:21 am

    The slaughter goes on. The butchers must have welcomed the unfortunate shooting of the Malaysian Airlines passenger plane, because the US media is giving it more coverage that the ongoing slaughter of civilians, but never fails to interview the Butcher of TelAviv, or give it’s servants air time to play victim.

    So far some South American nations have called for the end to the genocide.
    link to rt.com

    South Africans condemn Israeli aggression
    link to globalresearch.ca

    Hypocrisy of US and Israel questioned:

    The US and Israel: The Hypocrisy of UN Security Council Resolutions

    link to globalresearch.ca

    Apart from Erdogan, I have not heard one peep from the other Arab nations.
    Erdogans condemnation was met predictably by the accusation of, you guessed it,
    being anti-semitic, and what do you know, the holocaust card was brought up again, by the butcher of Telaviv.

    Only ONE nation (guess who?) has shown unwavering support, and openly justifies the ongoing sloughier of mostly civilians, after all they have to “defend” themselves, and Palestinian lives are worthless, compared to every precious Israeli life.
    Only ONE nation (guess who?) has shown unwavering support, and openly justifies the ongoing sloughier of mostly civilians, after all they have to “defend” themselves, and Palestinian lives are worthless, compared to every precious Israeli life.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      July 20, 2014, 10:25 am

      Erdogan will talk the talk, but he won’t walk the walk. Even after the Mavi Marmara massacre, relations with Israel were downgraded but not broken off. However, the Turkish public is very pro-Palestinian so Erdogan has to make a show of caring.

      ”Only ONE nation (guess who?) has shown unwavering support, and openly justifies the ongoing sloughier of mostly civilians, ”

      Sadly, that’s not true. The FCO just issued a statement saying ”Israel has the right to defend itself’ and again blaming Hamas. Canada and France are also full square behind Israel. In fact, almost all Western nations are, even if they utter platitudes about ‘proportionality’.

      • Walid
        July 20, 2014, 11:52 am

        Erdogan is a fake and one of Israel’s biggest fans.

      • Sumud
        July 20, 2014, 12:20 pm

        Latuff is on to him:

        link to twitter.com

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 12:22 pm

        LOL! Very good. Right from the start, As’ad Abu Khalil warned Arabs against seeing Erdogan as a saviour. As usual, he was right.

      • MahaneYehude1
        July 20, 2014, 1:06 pm

        @Walid:

        Erdogan is a fake and one of Israel’s biggest fans.

        I am very surprised to read this comment. You wrote in reply to me, that Turkey helps Israel with oil supply. OK, let’s say you right in this point but I assume Turkey did it to keep its economic interests in the region. But I wonder why did you conclude that Erdogan is “Israel’s biggest fans” after he said yesterday terrible things that no other leader, even Muslim, ever dared to say (“Israel is worse 100 times than Hitler” just one of his sayings).

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 3:32 pm

        “But I wonder why did you conclude that Erdogan is “Israel’s biggest fans” after he said yesterday terrible things that no other leader, even Muslim, ever dared to say…”

        Wow, talk about making the desert bloom! There’s nothing a Zionist can’t make whine out of.

      • ziusudra
        July 21, 2014, 5:53 am

        @MY1,
        …worse than hitler……
        Adolf, like Ghengis or Julius were Conquerors.
        You don’t judge conquerors on morals.
        The Zio-Nazi Governments have been vomiting
        Democracies & Morals since 48. You – are – not!
        We can’t judge you morally, hence don’t pump up
        morality. We could get the Impression that you are
        trying to deceive us.
        ziusudra
        PS pppst, Bubala, a little trivia:
        *after he said yesterday…. Temp. Adverbs are after a Phrase.
        * Israel is 100 worse than….. Comparatives are too.
        Spend some time in Williamsburg, B’klyn. You can pick betw.
        Haredi or Hasidic neighorhood, but don’t preach Zionism to
        them, they’ll lynch you.

    • Citizen
      July 20, 2014, 11:16 am

      Why is not possible to imagine the US government sanctioning Israel as it’s doing with Russia and Iran, for example? Can U say AIPAC orchestrated Jewish Establishment matrix in USA? David Duke talks of ZOG. I know we can’t talk about Duke here on MW, but, then how to inform the US public what’s actually happening with their blood, sweat, and tax dollars?

  6. just
    July 20, 2014, 10:25 am

    I just watched the video. There are no words. Israel has murdered these people. Israel has murdered those who could/would rescue them, Israel has prevented doctors from entering to help, Israel has bombed hospitals.

    War criminals, and yet the US via Kerry this morning expressed regret, and seemed vastly more concerned with Israel’s ‘suffering’.

    I don’t know if anyone has posted this from yesterday:

    “Israel must attack Gaza even more mercilessly, expel the population and resettle the territory with Jews, the deputy speaker of Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, has said.

    Moshe Feiglin, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud Party, makes the call in an article for the Israeli news website Arutz Sheva.

    Feiglin demands that Israel launch attacks “throughout Gaza with the IDF’s [Israeli army’s] maximum force (and not a tiny fraction of it) with all the conventional means at its disposal.”
    Force Gaza population out

    “After the IDF completes the ‘softening’ of the targets with its firepower, the IDF will conquer the entire Gaza, using all the means necessary to minimize any harm to our soldiers, with no other considerations,” Feiglin writes in one of several calls for outright war crimes.

    Following the reconquest, Israel’s army “will thoroughly eliminate all armed enemies from Gaza. The enemy population that is innocent of wrongdoing and separated itself from the armed terrorists will be treated in accordance with international law and will be allowed to leave,” Feiglin writes.
    “Gaza is part of our land”

    “Gaza is part of our Land and we will remain there forever,” Feiglin concludes. “Subsequent to the elimination of terror from Gaza, it will become part of sovereign Israel and will be populated by Jews. This will also serve to ease the housing crisis in Israel.”

    Feiglin has a long history of incitement. Last week he expelled Arab members of the Knesset who dared to criticize Israel’s ongoing slaughter in Gaza and called for Israel to cut off power to dialysis patients there.

    As of now, ninety percent of Gaza is without electricity, journalist Mohammed Omer reports, and most Palestinians in Gaza are getting as little as two hours of electricity per day.”

    link to electronicintifada.net

    Genocide.

  7. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    July 20, 2014, 10:27 am

    I posted this elsewhere, but think it deserves a re-post.

    Al Jazeera’s bureau chief, a hardened and experienced reporter, is so overwhelmed by the horror that he breaks down live on TV:

    • Walid
      July 20, 2014, 11:46 am

      Maxiumum, that was after Wael’s 3rd time of being shot at within 2 hours. The first was from his vantage point(same as in video) on top of building where Jazeera’s offices are located. As he was reporting live, a missile buzzed over his head and landed 20 meters across the street and that really shook him. A couple of hours later when the 2-hour lull was announced, he went straight to the area of the massacre and reported from there where he saw 7 corpses in the building where he stood. He ventured to the end of the street to see what was happening in that area and was shot at by the IDF to warn him to stay back. He went back to his original post on the street of the massacre when shells started falling on the street where he was standing in spite of the 2-hour lull still in effect. Jazeera then ordered him to get back to the office. It was shortly after that he broke down on the roof when it was reported that the dead had reached 60.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 11:49 am

        Thanks, I did not know that.

        So not only is Wael having to witness unimaginable horrors, but his life is in danger too. What unbearable stress. No wonder he broke down.

        And the thing is, he knows that if he were to be ‘accidentally’ killed, nobody who counts would care. After all, he’s only an Arab, isn’t he?

      • Elisabeth
        July 20, 2014, 2:00 pm

        That’s right: He is in real danger because his death won’t count. It will NOT be reported back here in the Netherlands for instance. That would only happen if he were Western/white.

  8. Kay24
    July 20, 2014, 10:28 am

    Just now on Fareed Zakaria, the ONLY credible voice on international affairs without prejudice – Zbigniew Brezinski, honestly states that Israel is doing a major blunder by this “lethal” attack on the Palestinians. He says that when Hamas joined the unity government, it was a sign that they were ready to unite and work with the world community, but we all know the Butcher of TelAviv was sore about that, and in true spoilt kid attitude wanted everything HIS way. Fareed Zakaria, of course did not question him further, and ended the interview (of those zionist bosses!).
    A short and must see interview. If some good soul here can link it sometime, it would be appreciated.
    He was a breath of fresh air, and I am tired of hearing those who work for us, keep kissing up to Israel and giving it a free pass for the massacre going on.

    • seafoid
      July 20, 2014, 11:47 am

      Brzezinski is very good on the fantasies of Zionism.

    • Sumud
      July 20, 2014, 12:26 pm

      Brezinski is right and only late by 8 years – they were ready in 2006.

    • ckg
      July 20, 2014, 6:17 pm

      @Kay24, Thanks for the heads up. Zbig is always excellent. The transcript is here:

      ZAKARIA: Let me switch gears with you, Zbig, and ask you about the Israeli invasion of Gaza. Prime Minister Netanyahu on CNN told Wolf Blitzer that this was a strategy to demilitarize Gaza, explaining the use of force, but it has been — it has been quite a robust use of force and the most recent attacks apparently 60 Palestinians have died.

      Do you think that it is going to succeed the Israeli stage?

      BRZEZINSKI: No, I think he is making a very serious mistake. When Hamas in effect accepted the notion of participation in the Palestinian leadership, it in effect acknowledged the determination of that leadership to seek a peaceful solution from Israel — with Israel. That was a real option. They should have persisted in that. Instead Netanyahu launched the campaign of defamation against Hamas, seized on the killing of three innocent Israeli kids to immediately charge Hamas with having done it without any evidence, and has used that to stir up public opinion in Israel in order to justify this attack on Gaza which is so lethal.

      I think he is isolating Israel. He’s endangering its longer-range future and I think we ought to make it very clear that this is a course of action which we thoroughly disapprove and which we do not support and which may compel us and the rest of the international community to take some steps of legitimizing Palestinian aspirations perhaps in the U.N.

      • Kay24
        July 20, 2014, 8:19 pm

        Thanks CKG. When you read the words it is just as strong as hearing him say it. I like Zbiggie and enjoy hearing him speak. The guy has a very sharp mind, and is clearly able to articulate very well.

  9. a blah chick
    July 20, 2014, 10:42 am

    Kerry’s in trouble again. From todays Haaretz: “U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry was caught on open mic speaking to one of his advisors on Sunday, saying sarcastically “It’s a hell of a pinpoint operation,” referring to Israel’s operation in Gaza.”

  10. a blah chick
    July 20, 2014, 10:45 am

    Amos Harel is offering this as an “explanation” of why that neibohood was hit: “While Sajaiya is not particularly significant from a military perspective, it seems that those who planned the operation assumed that a large-scale conflict with Hamas there would lead to many casualties on Hamas’s side. We can also assume that it was necessary to deal with the threat of the terror tunnels there, too, since Sajaiya is only about two kilometers from Israel, near the Karni border crossing and Kibbutz Nahal Oz. In any case, this is the first time during the operation that Hamas has dealt with the army on the ground, in the heart of the urban area.”

    Now it’s terror tunnels.

  11. iResistDe4iAm
    July 20, 2014, 10:55 am

    Here’s a few songs dedicated to Palestinians…

    We Will Not Go Down (Song for Gaza) by Michael Heart (re the 2008/2009 massacre)

    The New Black by The Mavrix (“Palestinian is the New Black”)

    Song for Gaza by Roger Waters: new version of “We Shall Overcome” dedicated to Gaza

  12. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    July 20, 2014, 10:58 am

    Where’s hophmi? Still getting counselling because he’s so offended by some ‘anti-semitic’ comment he heard on YouTube?

    • Penfold
      July 20, 2014, 1:52 pm

      Odd I had visions of him behaving like a myotonic goat, first sign of a counter argument and he goes rigid and faints, perhaps they could be renamed to zionist goats although the goats are relatively harmless so there are contrasting traits.

      • Kay24
        July 20, 2014, 3:00 pm

        Heh, loved the comparison. I had forgotten about those goats, until you mentioned it just now.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 3:36 pm

        I’ve noticed there’s a certain amount of ‘Zionist hang time’ when events are momentous. They have to synchronize their kvetchs for the latest hasbara operation.
        When they get the word on which excuses, which equivocations, and which lies to use, they go to work. Sometimes takes a couple of hours.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 3:48 pm

        Yes, I remember the same after the Mavi Marmara massacre.

        For hours after the news broke, the hasbarists were nowhere to be seen, which is unusual for them. Then, after several hours, they were back in a swarm, all of them spouting the exact same propaganda lines. It was hilarious how just about every single one of them was an instant expert in the obscure ‘San Remo treaty’, because there was supposedly – though not really – some line in there that justified the assault. Obviously hasbara central had put out that talking point, and they all ran with it. It was comical to see.

      • Kay24
        July 20, 2014, 8:22 pm

        The must be waiting for the talking points, the buzz words, and the latest instructions. Their instructor once told them “if you cannot convince them, confuse them”, I often think it is they who are confused, when you read the inane comments.

      • amigo
        July 20, 2014, 8:23 pm

        “When they get the word on which excuses, which equivocations, and which lies to use, they go to work. Sometimes takes a couple of hours.”Mooser.

        Haven,t you heard?. They updated spell check to “Hasbara check”.

        They just “select” the old set of hasbara answers, hit Hasbara check and walla , out comes the latest up to minute response.

        QED.

      • Penfold
        July 21, 2014, 2:44 am

        Kind of like the Borg Collective doing an update?

      • Stephen Shenfield
        July 21, 2014, 5:48 am

        But why don’t they just continue spouting the line about it being Hamas’ fault for not building air raid shelters? That one too was probably coordinated — there was a big article in Commentary that may have been used as a model.

  13. weindeb
    July 20, 2014, 10:58 am

    A short time ago I watched and heard Zbigniew Brezinski being interviewed on CNN and had a hard time believing that someone was actually viewing this latest Israeli transgression honestly, including a reference to the simple historical fact that, as Kay24 put it, “when Hamas joined the unity government, it was a sign that they were ready to unite and work with the world community.” He did not mention another interesting fact; namely, that Hamas was overwhelmingly elected in a democratic vote objectively observed by outsiders who declared the election to have been conducted with a remarkable degree of fairness. Of course, immediately following this election, Israel and the United States refused to accept the results and proceeded to denigrate Hamas and to work with the organization and its leadership. Brezinski did point out that Netanyahu, with no investigation, rapidly accused Hamas as the kidnapper and murderer of the three teens. In other words, one would be hard put to accuse Israel of inconsistency. From its very founding, facts on the ground, whatever their source by whatever method, has been Israel’s modus operandi, rendered palatable to the perpetrators and their enablers through hasbara so thorough, so all-enveloping, so frequently repeated as to be believed even by the liars grinding it out.

  14. The_truth
    July 20, 2014, 11:04 am

    Do you ever bother to ask where these casualty figures come from and who stands to gain from their release? Hmmm, from the UN? And where does the UN get these figures? You think they have a staff that goes around counting bodies? This all comes straight from Hamas which you left-wing crunchy granola eating fools eat up without a second thought. As in Cast Lead, all of these casualty figures are inflated and all assume everybody is an innocent bystander, which couldn’t be further from the truth.
    Just so you know, when the latest tunnel leading into Israel was discovered (a Hamas public works project – Norways tax dollars at work) handcuffs and tranquilizer drugs were found in the tunnels. This is who Israel is fighting – Hannibal Lecter to the 10th power.

    • a blah chick
      July 20, 2014, 1:22 pm

      “This is who Israel is fighting -Hannibal Lecter to the 10th power.”

      It’s worse than that, in addition to being cannibals they have trained sharks to leap out of the water and bring down a helicopter by exploding the dynamite-packed donkeys strapped to their backs.

      • geokat62
        July 20, 2014, 3:43 pm

        ROTFL!

      • Daniel Rich
        July 21, 2014, 5:24 am

        @ a blah chick,

        Q: …dynamite-packed donkeys strapped to their backs.

        R: Damn you, woman!

        Now I had to perform a L’Chaim Heimlich maneuver on myself by throwing my body violently against the sharp side of a table…

        [parts of a tomato and 1/2 a slice of cucumber were lost in the process]

    • justicewillprevail
      July 20, 2014, 2:06 pm

      But you somehow know the ‘real’ casualty figures. Apparently you are unaware that there are observers from many organisations as well as journalists, all who can count and can verify figures from hospitals and mortuaries. Not that you would care.So Hamas might have been planning some kidnaps? How does that compare with the hundreds of Palestinians that Israel has been kidnapping and disappearing, and how does it even compare to the mass murder that Israel is now undertaking – a campaign that would make Hannibal Lecter look like a saint. And as for maligning Norwegian aid, which is necessary thanks to the Israeli occupation, it is hypocritical coming from a country that lives off the teat of the American taxpayer.

      • peeesss
        July 21, 2014, 3:16 am

        Words are important as is their meanings. In taking an invading soldier prisoner the word used should be “Captured” not “kidnapped”. Israel is adept at kidnapping as when they rampage through neighborhoods and take men woman and children ,in the middle of the night to be imprisoned, usually without charge. Soldiers on the battlefield are “captured” not “kidnapped”.

    • just
      July 20, 2014, 4:32 pm

      And what do the IDF do to prisoners, eh? Did they also find forks and knives, some fava beans and a nice chianti?

    • Mooser
      July 20, 2014, 5:47 pm

      “you left-wing crunchy granola eating fools”

      Except, don’t you mean more like ‘you scallops-and-bacon eating fools’? I mean granola, no matter how crunchy, is almost invariably Kosher. There’s no mileage in accusing us of eating granola. Next time try, oh, ‘You trefe-eating Commies!’ instead.

    • Kris
      July 20, 2014, 6:10 pm

      I see that “The_truth” doesn’t have a commenter profile on mondoweiss, so maybe this is his/her first post. And the nasty tone of his/her post reminds me of Israel’s big hasbara push on social media right now. Just saying.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 6:41 pm

        “And the nasty tone of his/her post reminds me of Israel’s big hasbara push on social media right now. Just saying.”

        And then incensed by the opinions in Mondo running counter to what he or she reads on social media, “The_Truth” decides to let us have it! And we get the Hannibal Lector Lecture!
        I guess it’ll go good with all the Zionist whine.

      • Kay24
        July 20, 2014, 8:24 pm

        Then the response the_truth received from you guys, must have made the truth feel welcome. :))

      • Sumud
        July 21, 2014, 2:49 am

        It’s a glitch in the blogging platform, if the user has an underscore in their name they don’t get a profile page.

    • eljay
      July 20, 2014, 6:54 pm

      >> The_truth says …

      Like all good Zio-supremacists, The_”truth” neglects to mention that the oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State” of Israel:
      – was born of Jewish terrorism and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and lands;
      – remains engaged in a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction, torture and murder;
      – refuses to honour its obligations under international law;
      – refuses to accept responsibility and accountability for its past and ON-GOING (war) crimes; and
      – refuses to enter into sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace.

      It’s funny how those truths always slip The mind…

      • peeesss
        July 21, 2014, 3:21 am

        Eljay: Right on.

    • RoHa
      July 20, 2014, 7:50 pm

      I do not eat granola.

    • Djinn
      July 20, 2014, 10:26 pm

      Actually the figures this leftie who wouldn’t eat granola if she was starving, generally sees are the ones posted by a friend who is a nurse at Shifa Hospital.

      After Cast Lead the way I heard about the figures was interviewing families who had buried multiple family members.

  15. Kris
    July 20, 2014, 11:08 am

    Epistemology
    It’s always about loss,
    this kind of epistemology
    philosophers regard with dread.
    And we can fool ourselves with thinking.
    Like the grandfather I read about recently
    who picked up his four year old grandson
    in two pieces on a ((Gaza)) street,
    after ((an Israeli missile strike there)).
    And then just yesterday grocery shopping,
    concentrating on which broccoli florets to buy,
    out of the corner of my eye
    a little blond four year old girl
    is running to the side of my leg
    yelling grandpa, grandpa, we saw your car
    in the parking lot and knew it was you.
    And my son and his beautiful wife
    are smiling an aisle away,
    near the potatoes and sweet onions,
    she holding their year old daughter
    on her hip the way mothers do.
    And I’m so happy to see them all there
    in one piece that I begin to cry,
    like a foolish, foolish old man.
    –Ed Higgins

    link to georgefox.edu

  16. MahaneYehude1
    July 20, 2014, 11:09 am

    It is not a massacre, it was a battle between two armed groups, IDF and Hamas, in which several civilians, women and children, were in the middle. There are between 15 to 25 Israeli soldiers dead and several tens injured including battalion commanders, results of the heavy battle. please, wait until the evening (Israeli time) to the news and realize that the number is correct.

    • seafoid
      July 20, 2014, 1:29 pm

      It’s not a war. It’s a ghetto uprising.

      • MahaneYehude1
        July 20, 2014, 1:58 pm

        It’s not a war. It’s a ghetto uprising.

        Na’am, Ya-seafoid, a very expensive ghetto. No problem, Qatar pays.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 2:55 pm

        Whatever money Gaza gets from Qatar is a drop in the ocean compared to the billions of dollars in annual charity handouts Israel gets from the US. ”Start-up nation” couldn’t even afford to fund the lousy sound and light farce known as the ‘Iron Dome’.

      • MahaneYehude1
        July 20, 2014, 3:16 pm

        @Maximus:

        Someday, this lousy sound and light farce known as the “iron dome” will protect you.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 3:41 pm

        LOL! Another brain-washed bot! There’s not a scrap of evidence that your Iron Sieve has saved a single life, for all American taxpayers’ generous charity.

        And since I have no intention of going anywhere near your shithole of a country, your expensive piece of junk is of no use to me.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 3:41 pm

        “@Maximus:
        Someday, this lousy sound and light farce known as the “iron dome” will protect you.”

        So the Hamas have rockets which can reach England, (if I’m not mistaken about where Maximus hales from)?

        ROTFLMSJAO!! Anybody want to contest the fact that the Zionists think they are doing the world a favor?

        Hey, Mehane, hows about a little discourse about how Israel is ‘on the front lines of fighting terrorism’? Please, let yourself go on the subject.

      • kalithea
        July 20, 2014, 11:47 pm

        So go live there and get back to us!!!

    • jimby
      July 20, 2014, 2:10 pm

      I hope that all the IDF casualties are the result of friendly fire.

    • justicewillprevail
      July 20, 2014, 2:11 pm

      Strange that the people Israel is killing in droves are not members of any armed group, but people that Israel has trapped in the ghetto they have built for them. israel is fighting and killing (thus massacring, because they have no way of fighting back, can’t leave and are civilians) ordinary Palestinians – that is not a war or a battle. It is a crime of great magnitude

    • Mooser
      July 20, 2014, 5:41 pm

      ” please, wait until the evening (Israeli time) to the news and realize that the number is correct.”

      Mondo is so lucky to get this free, disinterested, and completely objective editorial advice. This Yehude dude is only thinking of the site’s best interest. Why if Mondo listens to him, it could achieve the rarefied level of credibility inhabited only by the IDF spokespeople.

    • Djinn
      July 20, 2014, 10:31 pm

      A battle between two grossly uneven armed groups in which the Israeli forces demolished entire blocks. Brought houses down on the heads of children. Shot at ambulances as they tried to reach the wounded.

      Clearly all this slaughter agrees with you Mahane, your English skills certainly improve when you jump in to defend Israel’s more blatantly egregious war crimes. I guess #1 Mahane pulls rank in times like these.

    • ziusudra
      July 21, 2014, 6:32 am

      @MY1,
      …..it is a battle betw two armed groups….
      Agreed.
      The battle is being fought in an enclosed Ghetto.
      The battle is being fought within the Gazan civilian
      population. The Gazan civilian Population is dying
      not the fighters on both sides.
      This is not a moral stand from me, but a perspective
      of how it is.
      ziusudra
      PS We remember what took place in the Warsaw
      Ghetto? Was that also a battle? There is no difference
      here.

  17. American
    July 20, 2014, 11:16 am

    Meanwhile…..

    Bubba fund raises for Hillary’s presidential campaign….wonder how much they get from the zios for every dead Palestine…$2000 each…$10,000 each?

    Bill Clinton: Hamas has “a strategy designed to force Israel to kill their own civilians so that the rest of the world will condemn them.”

    And German leadership has never met any Nazis they didnt support.

    ”Merkel endorses Israeli offensive on Gaza Strip Press TV-Jul 18, 2014 German Chancellor Angela Merkel has affirmed her country’s support for the Israeli regime in its relentless offensive against Palestinians in the …”

    • Kay24
      July 20, 2014, 8:28 pm

      Merkel is always on this guilt trip.

      Clinton is desperate to get another shot in the WH, although not in the oval office.
      Still, nothing like kissing up to zios, to get Hillary there.

    • Antidote
      July 20, 2014, 11:04 pm

      “And German leadership has never met any Nazis they didnt support.”

      Sure, and nobody would call her a Nazi if she would not support Israel? But insist on Israel seriously negotiating with Hamas and lifting the Gaza blockade? Seriously, no matter what she does some moron will call her a Nazi

      Here’s some reading material on your intellectual level

      link to thecontroversialfiles.net

      And no, it’s not a “guilt trip” either.

      Did you notice there’s a bit of a crisis going on right now in Europe as well? Ukraine? “Fuck the EU” Victoria Nuland? Merkel just threw out the Head of the NSA in Germany. So she toes the party line here to avoid further diplomatic complications. From the US perspective, Putin, not Netanyahu, is the new Hitler (Clinton etc). 50 % of Germans favour a continued transatlantic alliance, 50 % are fed up want a German-Russian alliance. Reactions?

      Basically, everybody is a Nazi

      link to dailymail.co.uk

      • American
        July 21, 2014, 9:31 am

        Antidote says:

        July 20, 2014 at 11:04 pm

        “And German leadership has never met any Nazis they didnt support.”
        Sure, and nobody would call her a Nazi if she would not support Israel? But insist on Israel seriously negotiating with Hamas and lifting the Gaza blockade? Seriously, no matter what she does some moron will call her a Nazi.
        Here’s some reading material on your intellectual level’…..>>>

        Here a reply for your intellectual level—–> No one but the zios and Israelis would call her a nazi for condemning Israel.

  18. American
    July 20, 2014, 11:22 am

    link to theguardian.com

    ‘Death and horror’ in Gaza as thousands flee Israeli bombardment
    Fiercest fighting yet as Israel widens ground offensive and faces accusations of war crimes over rising number of civilian deaths

    The UN said that more than 60,000 people had sought sanctuary in 49 shelters it was providing in Gaza, and it expected the numbers to rise.”>>>>>

    Not sure UN shelters are any sanctuary. Israel has bombed UN buildings before.

  19. Citizen
    July 20, 2014, 11:24 am

    I don’t think the US Congress gives a crap about the truth going on. They are only concerned with AIPAC-orchestrated donor dollars and US main stream media tales to Dick n Jane, all hasbara. US political campaign finance system determines US government conduct. Sheldon Adelson, for example, is who they listen to, not Glen Greewwald, or Max Blumenthal. Follow the money. That’s all you need to know about US politics, hence US foreign policy.

    • jimby
      July 20, 2014, 2:12 pm

      that’s right citizen, the politicians take “blood money”. they are rotten at the core. a dead fish stinks from the head down.

  20. MahaneYehude1
    July 20, 2014, 11:32 am

    OK, five minutes ago Israel announced that 13 IDF soldiers died in the battle in Gaza. the IDF IDF encountered armed Hamas fighters and many explosives at homes and streets. Hamas asked the citizens not to leave their homes.

    • a blah chick
      July 20, 2014, 1:12 pm

      Mahane: “IDF encountered armed Hamas fighters and many explosives at homes and streets.”

      It’s called self defense, get use to it.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      July 20, 2014, 1:23 pm

      So they ‘asked’ them, did they? Got a link? I mean, a direct link with a direct quote from a Hamas official, not a hasbara site. And even if they ‘asked’ them, there wouldn’t be much they could do to stop tens of thousands of people, would there?

      Not to mention the fact that many people reported that they were fired upon by Israel even when fleeing their homes. The ”we asked them to leave so it’s OK if we kill them” line is dead. You need something else, and you need it quick.

      • MahaneYehude1
        July 20, 2014, 3:46 pm

        Look, many were killed today, from Gaza and Israel. Indeed, many Palestinians were innocent civilians trapped between IDF and Hamas. But many others were Hamas fighters died in the battle with the IDF soldiers. Why all of you use the words “massacre” and “slaughter”?

        Maximus: Got a link? I mean, a direct link with a direct quote from a Hamas official, not a hasbara site. Yes, I got. Please, check my profile.

        Blah chick: I would call also Israel operation as self defense. IDF is defending the Israeli civilians from all those war criminals shooting missiles on Israeli cities and towns.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 3:58 pm

        ”Why all of you use the words “massacre” and “slaughter”? ”

        Eh….. because we’ve got these high fallutin’ new items called TV’s.

        They haven’t discovered them yet in start-up nation?

        And I’m not going to check your profile. If you have the link I asked for, it shouldn’t be a problem to find it.

        ” IDF is defending the Israeli civilians from all those war criminals shooting missiles on Israeli cities and towns.”

        But they’re not doing very well, are they? More Israelis – albeit soldiers, becuase unlike the IDF, Hamas is not targetting civilians – have been killed in the past few days than in the past few years.

      • MahaneYehude1
        July 20, 2014, 4:17 pm

        @maximus:

        Hamas is not targetting civilians – have been killed in the past few days than in the past few years.

        Nonsense!!! Shooting missiles on civilians, hit or not hit, is a war crime. Don’t try to play with calculations. We don’t have to be killed to satisfy you.
        link to mondoweiss.net

        BTW, if you are from UK, please, on my behalf, thank to your government for supporting Israel.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 5:33 pm

        Maximus, here’s some great background on Gaza and the Zionists The pictures of Old Jaffa are wonderful, too.

        Scroll down, and don’t miss the reports on Zionist actions from the British Colonial Office.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 5:26 pm

        “Blah chick: I would call also Israel operation as self defense.”

        Yes, you would, wouldn’t you? Can’t nobody argue with that!

      • amigo
        July 20, 2014, 7:47 pm

        “BTW, if you are from UK, please, on my behalf, thank to your government for supporting Israel.” club mehane.

        Mehane , before you get orgasmic about the UK government remember.

        Governments come and go. but the people will be there forever.

        You do not have the support of Archie and Rosie.

      • MahaneYehude1
        July 21, 2014, 4:46 am

        @Mooser:

        I please ask you to stop mocking my language. If not, I won’t enter MW site, won’t comment and won’t reply to others. Tx.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 5:35 pm

        Here, Mehane here’s a link for you!!

        “The Arab-Israeli Conflict: Too Complicated For Our Beautiful Minds?”

      • Taxi
        July 21, 2014, 5:33 am

        Mahane,

        The occupier cannot claim self-defence. Only the occupied get this moral privilege.

        Example: an armed robber trespasses into a house and gets caught by the owner of the house, a fire-fight ensues and the owner is killed. Later, in court, the robber submits that he killed the owner in self-defense. Do you think the judge will accept this?

    • seafoid
      July 20, 2014, 2:11 pm

      Typical bot . No idea about 1948 and what palestinians learnt from it. Israel killed those people. In their homes .

    • justicewillprevail
      July 20, 2014, 2:13 pm

      If they were citizens’ homes wtf are the IDF gestapo doing ransacking, destroying and killing the people in them, then?

    • Mooser
      July 20, 2014, 3:44 pm

      “OK, five minutes ago Israel announced that 13 IDF soldiers died”

      Oh well, when you rate your Officers on Torah Knowledge and they know no more of tactics than a novice in a nunnery, these things can happen. Maybe somebody forgot to hold their arms up or something?

      • MahaneYehude1
        July 20, 2014, 3:52 pm

        @Mooser:

        Oh well, when you rate your Officers on Torah Knowledge and they know no more of tactics than a novice in a nunnery, these things can happen. Maybe somebody forgot to hold their arms up or something?

        I want to see the reactions here if I write same thing about dead Hamas fighters. It seems to me that in this site, no matter the rubbish you write, it will be published if it against Israel and Zionism.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 5:04 pm

        “It seems to me that in this site, no matter the rubbish you write, it will be published if it against Israel and Zionism.”

        Ah, we have here a rather light, but still unpleasant vintage, one of those best consumed early, while the bouquet of phosphorus can still be savored. And straight from the little old whine-maker, Yonah.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 5:24 pm

        Okay Yonah, you’re right, I should say something nice about the IDF, so I’ll just say that better IDF Major-Generals have never sat a’gee.

      • eljay
        July 20, 2014, 8:42 pm

        >> MY1: It seems to me that in this site, no matter the rubbish you write, it will be published if it against Israel and Zionism.

        Potato-man, you know very well that this site publishes plenty of pro-Israel and pro-Zionism rubbish. If it didn’t, we wouldn’t see your comments.

        Like the one where Israel killed Palestinians and destroyed Palestinian homes and property during a kidnapping investigation.

        Instead of condemning the murders, you actually expressed pride that your government and army “did all efforts” (killed people and destroyed homes and property) during the investigation and you said it made you – a proud Zionist – feel like a proud Israeli.

      • Marnie
        July 21, 2014, 7:17 am

        You are correct sir! Now be a good boy and go away.

    • amigo
      July 20, 2014, 7:52 pm

      ” IDF IDF” club mehane

      So now your using clones and drones.

    • Djinn
      July 20, 2014, 10:35 pm

      Well if a bunch of war criminals said it, it must be true.

  21. Justpassingby
    July 20, 2014, 11:51 am

    400 lives, 400! That will never come back.

    Where the fck are western leaders hiding at?! You have blood on your hands!

  22. seafoid
    July 20, 2014, 11:54 am

    Kerry and Obama are very very very good value for money.

  23. Sumud
    July 20, 2014, 12:09 pm

    Six IDF died during Israel’s attack on Gaza 2008/09 as a result of combat, there were a few more killed by the IDF in error.

    Just a few days in and they’re at about 18 IDF killed now. Clearly Hamas learnt some lessons.

    • seafoid
      July 20, 2014, 12:13 pm

      Hamas would only need to fire a few rockets a week to destroy the Israeli hotel
      business. Alongside their cruelty the bots are losing serious money. And Iron Dome is very expensive. Wouldn’t work in a long campaign.

      • Sumud
        July 20, 2014, 12:28 pm

        I’ve heard they’re running out of ammunition for Iron Dome and that Hamas are holding stocks of larger missiles as yet unused.

      • Elisabeth
        July 20, 2014, 2:03 pm

        That could change the Israeli attitude, if that were true!

      • Penfold
        July 20, 2014, 12:30 pm

        Isn’t the US picking up the tab for this so I am not sure the cost of Iron Dome really matters.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 1:06 pm

        I’m not sure why I bother posting on this thread, as about seven posts of mine have been languishing in pre-mod for ages, but there’s actually very little independent evidence of the efficacy of the Iron Dome. One Israeli defence expert went so far as to say that not only is the Dome not that efficient, it’s a complete fraud which hasn’t intercepted a single rocket.

        This article claims that the reason there have been fewer casualties from rockets than before is not due to the Dome, but rather to the fact that there are better shelters and warning systems in place, and that Hamas rockets are even less powerful than they used to be:

        link to csmonitor.com

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 3:50 pm

        “I’m not sure why I bother posting on this thread, as about seven posts of mine have been languishing in pre-mod for ages”

        That can be a problem, many have mentioned posts being lost. Since it may have nothing to do with the content of the post, you might try saving a copy, and submitting the comment again. Sometimes, the system seems to mis-route comments for no discernible reason.

      • seafoid
        July 20, 2014, 1:08 pm

        Bennett and co have been talking about dropping the US and trying Israel’s luck with China. They see the BDS writing on the wall.

      • mikeo
        July 20, 2014, 4:21 pm

        Bennett and co have been talking about dropping the US and trying Israel’s luck with China.

        Ha Ha

        Good luck with that…

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 4:45 pm

        please drop us………

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      July 20, 2014, 12:13 pm

      Not sure if anyone will read this – I’ve about 5 comment in the above thread still in pre-mod, even though much later comments have been approved – but according to Ben Whyte, more IDF soldiers have been killed in this ‘war’ than in the last two assaults on Gaza combined.

      This shows that even in the most extreme conditions, besieged from air, land and sea, you cannot stop resistance. They must be crapping themselves at IDF Central. They thought it would be just a nice summer episode of ‘mowing the lawn’. Not quite.

      • seafoid
        July 20, 2014, 1:09 pm

        Mowing the lawn and the garden gnomes go ninja.

      • Pixel
        July 20, 2014, 2:30 pm

        (There’s ABSOLUTELY ZERO to laugh about …but that was really funny, Seafoid.)

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 4:46 pm

        lol, seafoid.

        I haven’t chuckled today– that one got me. Thanks.

        Mostly I just can’t stop tearing up.

      • bintbiba
        July 20, 2014, 7:05 pm

        true, just…me too.
        Seafoid-o you are a breath of fresh air !

      • Daniel Rich
        July 21, 2014, 5:34 am

        @ seafoid,

        Q: Mowing the lawn and the garden gnomes go ninja.

        R: OMFG! I seriously wet myself there, man!

        Everything hurts, but after so much misery I needed a good laugh [also thank you, Mooser and a blah chick].

  24. Sumud
    July 20, 2014, 12:12 pm

    Terrorists kill civilians, legitimate fighters kill soldiers.

    The numbers don’t lie. Proportionally, who are the terrorists again?

    • jd65
      July 20, 2014, 1:04 pm

      Exactly right, Sumud. Over and over again I’ve made this point to Israeli-firsters/Zionists/Conservatives/whateveryouwanncallem and 100% of the time they will say something like, “Well, I don’t wanna talk about numbers.” Of course they don’t. It’s like forcing them to look in the mirror…

  25. aiman
    July 20, 2014, 12:16 pm

    Amazing how liberal Zionists like Amos Oz’s daughter seem incapable of facing this situation. No empathy, only hasbara: link to twitter.com
    Is this the respectable, left-leaning face of a genocide-committing state? It seems so

    • seafoid
      July 20, 2014, 1:13 pm

      I think she was named after his mother. She was really decent, unlike his father. Israel became more like the father.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      July 20, 2014, 1:26 pm

      A bit like how much vaunted ‘liberal Zionist’ David Grossmann publicly supported the July war on Lebanon…… until his own son was killed. And then he expected people to feel sorry for him. And while I can feel sorry for a father who has lost his son, he didn’t much care about the many, many Lebanese fathers who had lost their sons – most of whom, unlike Grossmann’s son, were not combatants but civilians.

      Scratch a ‘liberal Zionist’, you’ll find a Kahanist. Nine times out of ten. At least.

  26. Justpassingby
    July 20, 2014, 12:22 pm

    Israel could kill a million and west wouldnt do anything.

  27. RobertB
    July 20, 2014, 1:11 pm

    The spineless Obama, Kerry, US (Israel’s) Congress are all AIPAC/Apartheid Israel’s servants. The US has lost its moral outcry, its moral fiber…what a damn shame.

    Palestinian civilians, women and children are getting massacred/slaughtered by Israel’s IDF “nazi army” using American made weapons and yet NO American official dares to speak out against this gruesome genocide.

    No condemnation…just praise and support for Israel’s war crimes and massacres.

  28. Marnie
    July 20, 2014, 1:11 pm

    Revenge is behind a lot of cruelty and death. They like to say that the Palestinians have a culture of death. I’ll tell you that almost daily there is something about Hitler, WWII, concentration camps, etc., on the israeli history channel. On the holiday where they remember the fallen soldiers, they list them by name. They are useful idiots, the soldiers and are used as idols whenever the need arises. They aren’t treated that well, I think because there is an endless supply of them and all israeli kids leave highschool and go straight to the army (with few exceptions). To refuse to do service isn’t that big of a deal, its not like you’re thrown in prison for years and years (I think its only months?), but the stigma in this culture of the warrior is a bigger. My daughter’s high school teacher had told the class that people who refused to serve in the army or people that wanted peace were dangerous to society! That’s democracy in this part of the world. I’m not trying to get sympathy for the soldiers by any stretch of the imagination, but this apartheid is poison for everyone in this region; it’s deadly for the Palestinians and it’s deadly for israeli’s except the death is spiritual.

    • Elisabeth
      July 20, 2014, 5:59 pm

      That was interesting. And explanation of the background by someone who knows from the inside. Thank you

    • ziusudra
      July 21, 2014, 7:23 am

      Greetings Marnie,
      much tks for your insight.
      You could have been talking also of
      Nazi Germany, DDR, Aparthid So. Africa,
      Rhodesia, Pol Pot Cambodia, Pinochet’s Chile
      Soviet Union, Mao’s China, etc.
      Nationalizm knows no boundries.
      ziusudra
      PS When the sickly stench of Nationalism
      invades a Nation, its People sense it &
      close themselves off. Israelis know how far they
      can open up & no more.

      • Marnie
        July 21, 2014, 12:39 pm

        I’m not a war monger and I’m not an expert on this place, but I’ve seen and experienced things here I never was prepared for – pretty dumb, huh? I hope that judgment comes quickly to the state of Israel and the suffering of the Palestinians will be over. I can’t imagine how they feel, knowing that we see what is happening to them and haven’t lifted a finger. What betrayal! I can’t understand how Slick Willie” Clinton let the Hutus get massacred in 1994, then went on an apology road show later on with the never again shit and now, when his voice could make a difference, he chooses to side with the criminals -again? It’s bad enough to do that once in your life but twice?

  29. yonah fredman
    July 20, 2014, 2:34 pm

    War is just politics by another mean.

    I am all in favor of studying root causes and doing something about those root causes. but there is a dynamic to study here.

    Israel is in the wrong, from my point of view because Bibi’s basic attitude is not towards finding a map of a demarcation line between Palestine and Israel and a refusal to negotiate that map, given the 47 years of it and the occupation of it, puts Israel in the context of refusal.

    Israel is in the wrong, from the point of view of MW, because of the Nakba. Since Israel is not about to remedy the Nakba, anything Israel does must be put in that context.

    Again, I wish to leave the roots behind for a moment and deal with the dynamics.

    Country A does not claim an area, but does have that area under 2/3rds siege. that area launches rockets into Country A, what rights does Country A have? I think if this was the question it would be an interesting one and Americans would consider themselves lucky to not be in that position.

    But this is almost absurd to remove it from its context. Thus the dynamics is not the point here, but the context is.

    Lots of noise in the comments section. I understand. If I was Palestinian I would be flipping out right now and those who empathize with them are entitled to flip out as well. But nonetheless, lots of noise in the comments section. Much more noise than light.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      July 20, 2014, 2:49 pm

      ”Much more noise than light.”

      Odd phrase, from someone who has just written a head-scratchingly inarticulate comment.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 3:23 pm

        “War is just politics by another mean.”

        Isn’t it nice of Yonah to inform us it’s all in a day’s political work for Israel. Hey, don’t get excited, it’s just politics.

      • eljay
        July 20, 2014, 4:18 pm

        >> M.D.M.: Odd phrase, from someone who has just written a head-scratchingly inarticulate comment.

        +1. :-)

      • yonah fredman
        July 20, 2014, 5:22 pm

        MDM- Every statement of yours is approved by your will and self righteousness and is followed by an exclamation point and is real friggin’ loud complete with scatological expressions. Sorry if my groping for a direction in this fog of war does not meet with your level of certitude and decibels.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 6:16 pm

        “MDM- Every statement of yours is approved by your will and self righteousness and is followed by an exclamation point and is real friggin’ loud complete with scatological expressions. Sorry if my groping for a direction in this fog of war does not meet with your level of certitude and decibels.”

        Whoa, this is like one of the French harvest festivals I’ve read about! Yonah just opened the spigot on an entire vat of whine, and it’s flowing everywhere. Whine for all!

        But you keep “groping” Yonah. I’m sure if you find just the right words, why, it’ll change reality. And since everybody must argue using your reality, how can you lose?

        Just do us a favor, and don’t “grope” any of the women while “groping” for your level of decitude and certabels. Okay? I know what you guys are like.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 6:19 pm

        “MDM- Every statement of yours is approved by your will and self righteousness “

        While poor Yonah still has to go through moderation! Is there no justice?

    • Cliff
      July 20, 2014, 3:15 pm

      Wondering Jew,

      Thanks for your sincere comment. It’s clear you do not support the killing of children.

      Neither do we.

      You want to be able to talk about this, and have the luxury of doing so – while Palestinians are incinerated in Gaza.

      But that you are able to put yourself in their shoes for a moment is a lot.

      Yes, there’s a lot of noise – from your point of view. The most recent conflict does not start with the launching of rockets from Gaza into Southern Israel.

      So roots matter. Whether we talk about 48′ or a this year’s Nakba Day killings.

      Try putting yourself in the shoes of your opponents more often.

      I’ve tried to see myself as an Israeli, but I’m not a thief and a liar. I’m not a colonist. I can’t think like you.

      • yonah fredman
        July 20, 2014, 3:41 pm

        Cliff- If you live in America the only thing that separates you from colonialism is 200 years. You can imagine the spot you’re standing on, two hundred years ago, can’t you?

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 3:55 pm

        “If you live in America the only thing that separates you from colonialism is 200 years.”

        And, of course, nothing happens in 200 years!
        But here we go again, with what is I think, the best-aged Zionist whine, that the world owes the Jews an atrocity or two. We got a couple of freebies, a couple of ‘mulligans’ coming.
        Yes, of course we have to have them, we won’t feel right about ourselves as a people until we do! Gotta have us some Blut!
        And besides, you’ll thank us in the end, because, well, Arab-Moslem.

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 3:58 pm

        And wait a minute, wasn’t the Old Testament full of atrocities and religion-as-states making war on one another? Well, I mean, case closed. You’re not expecting us to abandon our religion are you?

        Gosh darn it, if I hadn’t become an incorrigible pork-and-shellfish addict by the time I was in my teens, I coulda been a pretty good Zionist spokesman.
        Nah, maybe I’ll just wait here for the four Angels-on-Horseback of the Apocalypse

      • yonah fredman
        July 20, 2014, 4:23 pm

        Mooser- Ha, ha, ha. you are so funny. actually cliff was asking about imagination, i was not saying nothing has changed, i was saying that a failure of imagination is not because popular culture has neglected your imagination, only that you are not willing to apply your imagination to this issue.

        unfortunately the history or the myth of biblical times is bound to be called up by too many on the Jewish Israeli Zionist side. An Israel with “disputed territory” as part and parcel of a person’s range of motion, rather than a negotiated border as some particular point of reference will allow the myths to be tossed about for various purposes.

        there are approximately five to six million jews living in the middle east, this is the primary fact. the pain inflicted on the palestinians is a primary fact as well as is a large refugee population in gaza. i apologize for trying to think out loud and not every paragraph has a punch line.

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 4:55 pm

        “Nah, maybe I’ll just wait here for the four Angels-on-Horseback of the Apocalypse”

        another lol. Thanks, Mooser.

      • yonah fredman
        July 20, 2014, 5:24 pm

        mooser- when was the last time you had a political discussion with anyone? have you had a discussion of any sort in the last 10 years, because you’re a one liner master, but a political discussion mediocrity. jim carrey, don rickles, yes. eric severaid, no.

      • Cliff
        July 20, 2014, 4:27 pm

        Wondering Jew,

        I don’t want Israeli Jews to pack up and leave.

        I want them to come to terms with their ONGOING criminal national identity.

        Israel is a small country. America is 300M+.

        The national identity here among that 300M+ is different than among the Jewish majority in Israel/Palestine.

        Not only do you have your nationalism, but you also have your victimhood based on real persecution and genocide as well as on fear-mongering and exploitation.

        So our nationalisms and identity politics differ.

        I am not a patriot. I think I just ‘live’ in America. I was born and raised here. I don’t see the point in patriotism unless it means surviving against alien (like from space) invasion and annihilation.

        Maybe there are other scenarios. But this country is too big to have a singular patriotic zeal. The loudest people move the country.

        Israel is more concentrated and is Jewish – so different politics come into play and different pressures.

        I had nothing to do with Manifest Destiny and I cannot do anything about it now.

        I mean, it seems like colonialism is the only crime that never goes out of style for you and other Zionists.

        You would oppose slavery (I hope) or genocide (I hope) – but you roll your eyes at the outrage against colonialism.

        I’m an Indian-American. What do I have to do with American colonialism or slavery?

        I didn’t choose where I was born. I choose how I live and what I do here and NOW.

        Why don’t you try reconciling that. Why don’t you try living in the ‘here’ and in the ‘now’.

        Stop using the past crimes other other countries as an EXCUSE for YOU and your community to continue committing crimes IN THE PRESENT.

        Do you expect people to look away?

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 6:33 pm

        “mooser- when was the last time you had a political discussion with anyone?”

        Yonah, you seem to be laboring under the misconception that there’s some reason to take you as anything but a bad hasbara joke. Can you give me one? Love to hear it.

      • yonah fredman
        July 20, 2014, 8:53 pm

        Cliff- What the white settlers did to the native Americans was quite bad and not something worthy of emulation. But you claimed to be unable to imagine being as evil as the Israelis. And since you live on territory that was in fact claimed through colonialism and evil, I thought you related to the land under your feet with some political seriousness. But in fact you come from Asia and you consider the history of the land under your feet as irrelevant. You are in fact limited in your ability to empathize and imagine. That’s okay. But don’t start with the “do you expect people to look away” bull. You are not able to see your presence in America as an extension of American history and that is your limitation in not being real about the facts of the land where you live. That’s all I was pointing out. That a full human being can see the facts as given and empathize with someone else who has the facts as given. but you are an individual, without any relationship to the history of America and it is that compartmentalization that is key to your inability to see the history of the world a little wider than your choir trained perception.

      • Egbert
        July 21, 2014, 5:18 am

        “when was the last time you had a political discussion with anyone? “

        But Mooser’s humor is just politics by another means.

      • Cliff
        July 20, 2014, 11:06 pm

        @WJ,

        You’re absolutely right that I consider myself to be an individual.

        I am not responsible for Manifest Destiny.

        The American colonial project is over. I do not support any further attempts to disenfranchise (I exclude ‘destroy’ because they’ve already been all but destroyed completely) Native Americans.

        If America was no longer a White Christian majority (or at least a White majority) – I would not care.

        Would you care if Israel was no longer a Jewish majority?

        You are again drawing a parallel between the Zionist Jewish experience (where Zionist Jews, who are part of the Israeli polity, are collectively responsible because of their shared history) and the American experience.

        Do you think Chinese railway workers or African slaves or Indian-Americans like myself are responsible for the eradication of Native American tribes?

        I simply live here. That does not make me responsible.

        We’re all living on land that belonged to someone else at some point. What matters is whether our doing so, in the present, is immoral or illegal.

        I’m not saying I don’t recognize the brutal history of American genocide/colonialism against the indigenous Native Americans.

        I’m saying, I have NOTHING to do with it.

        Israel is still colonizing. Israel is still ethnically cleansing. Israel is still killing the indigenous population.

        Israel is still at war with the indigenous population.

        Israel’s colonial, apartheid enterprise is not a relic of history for us to talk about in the past tense.

        It is happening NOW.

        There is no comparison between you and me. I do not support colonialism. If it were happening here in America, I’d be against it.

        It’s happening in your country but you instead change the subject to American colonialism.

        So going back to what I said:

        Would you support slavery or make these asinine comments about slavery, if Israel were enslaving the Palestinians? Couldn’t you say the same things but rather, about slavery instead of colonialism? America practiced slavery. Am I to blame for it too? If Israel was practicing slavery, would that make me a hypocrite to point out how wrong it is?

        You are a Zionist, Wondering Jew. That informs your world-view.

        So your first reaction is to change the subject or divert. You and your cult never own up to your crimes and hatefulness.

      • yonah fredman
        July 21, 2014, 11:25 am

        Cliff- I imagine a conversation with you might be possible in person, but in text it seems clearly impossible. If i would go back now to your initial response and pull out the half sentence that i was commenting on, i would add another half sentence elsewhere in my paragraph and behold, you would grab onto this other half sentence and you would be off to the races: You are a Zionist. you divert. you never own up to your crimes.

        Well, great. you got that off your chest, now we can talk. On a street corner that’s how it might be, but here, no, this is one upsmanship gamesmanship and certainly very dissimilar to two human beings on a street corner.

        I do not oppose the Jewish sovereignty over the Israel captured in 1948. I do not propose the return of all the Palestinian refugees to their homes. I realize that the leadership in Israel is not oriented towards peace. I fear that the general neighborhood of Israel is a mess and that given the existence of an Israel it is natural for those who live in Israel to object to the return of the refugees. I know you would prefer to sum that up as “you won’t own up to your crimes”, but I prefer to use my own language.

        I can’t tell if in person you would be as impossible to talk to as in text. but in text you are scoring points and now you can have the last word and tally the victory for the anticolonialists.

      • Marnie
        July 21, 2014, 7:03 am

        That doesn’t make it right, does it?

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 5:11 pm

        “Wondering Jew”

        Yonah is, or was “Wondering Jew”? Wow, I guess he stopped wondering, and know, of course, he knows! No more wonderings for him!

    • just
      July 20, 2014, 7:54 pm

      “War is just politics by another mean.”

      People don’t get blown to bits by someone bloviating.

      • yonah fredman
        July 20, 2014, 8:44 pm

        just- I think the quote is: “jaw, jaw, is better than war, war”. I included that line because it came to mind and because the politics of the clash of interests between Hamas and Israel is the essence to a cease fire and an end to the siege. The fact that hundreds are being killed by Israel and this conflict turned to weapons is part of a context of political goals that are seemingly irreconcilable. I suppose the other quote is, “politics is the art of the possible.”

        My favorite israeli politicians: Mitzna and Burg, would not have gotten us into this war and would tend towards negotiations with hamas much more than that is Likud or Bibi’s inclination. Yet, present in Israel currently, I cannot help be moved by the intolerable idea of rockets being shot for no reason at Israel. Of course it is not for “no reason”, there is a siege on Gaza and apparently Israel is stopping Hamas from getting funds from Qatar to pay their monthly bills to the government employees who run the Gaza strip. Since it is not Mitzna or Burg or even Livni (who is hated here because of Cast Lead, but I do not hate her), but it is Bibi in charge and it is the situation as given that must be dealt with. I appreciate that pro Palestinians see only the deaths to their side, but I wish that something could emerge from this war like an end to the siege such that Hamas will be a “good neighbor”. (I exaggerate, but nonetheless the idea is that Hamas should have something to lose by shooting rockets again and something to gain as in normalcy and an end to the siege by stopping the rockets now.) Such optimism that a modus vivendi can be worked out between Likud/Israel and Hamas/Palestine is a bit rose colored glasses, but that’s what I was speaking about: the hope that war will lead to something better than the situation that existed between Cast Lead and now. I did not choose this war, but like a pitcher that did not choose for the bases to be loaded when he is brought into the game, I must deal with the situation on hand, and not the alternative history that I approve of. As such I wish that common interests between Hamas and Israel can be found in such a way that Gaza can breathe easier and this threat of rockets doesn’t hover. I would wish for a modus vivendi on the West bank while I’m at it too, but my optimism just ran out of gas and optimism on fumes is a bit much.

  30. gracie fr
    July 20, 2014, 2:48 pm

    Dr. Mads Gilbert has said that the type of injuries he is seeing at the Shi’fa hospital are eerily similar to those caused by white phosphorous in 2006 and 2008/9 during Operation Cast Lead….

    link to youtube.com
    link to forensic-architecture.org

    • Boomer
      July 20, 2014, 3:51 pm

      And 972 has a report suggesting use of something called “DIMES.” I don’t know what they are, or the implications, or whether it matters. If you are dead, you are dead, regardless of the weapon. But maybe it is significant:
      link to 972mag.com

      • radkelt
        July 21, 2014, 1:47 am

        DIME stands for dense inert metal explosive. The explosion renders the metal component into miniscule particles causing severance of limbs and causing wounds impossible to treat.
        FWIW, IMO its not in Israeli interests to takeout Gaza rockets. They do
        little harm or damage, they provide Israel with invaluable PR, they provide the excuse of retaliating to terror and thus avoid invoking the US Arms Control Act, and further the dependance of the affected on the government. Not to mention IDF has continual access to sophisticated aerial surveillance enabling them to plot the rockets trajectory, and thus its point of origin.
        The IDF demonstrated it’s deadly precision in 2006 by aerial bombing of ambulances in Lebanon, striking them at the center of the red crosses painted on their roofs.
        This unholy massacre is about securing access and possession of the huge gas fields in Gaza’s territorial waters, and little else.

      • oldgeezer
        July 21, 2014, 2:45 am

        hmmm could be. I think it’s more about land and getting rid of Palestinians. If the reserve numbers are accurate then it’s not a huge increase over what they have. Eliminating Palestinians (not necessarily killing them but they don’t balk at that either) has always been a primary goal.

      • Citizen
        July 21, 2014, 9:21 am

        @ radkelt
        Good technical point about the Arms Control Act–the HAMAS rockets allow Israel to support its claim it’s only acting in self-defense, hence avoid said statute’s reach. But there’s been no attempt by anyone in US government to even remind Israel over the years that the US has ethical restriction on its arms exports (just as there’s been no governmental warning to remind Pro Israel NGOs here in US that tax exempt status can be lost for slanted funding of Jewish terrorist groups acting under color of law). In fact, your whole comment is informative, thoughtful, showing Israel has the technical ability to minimize Gaza civilian casualties much more than it has been doing, and yes, I forgot about those huge gas fields in Gaza’s territorial waters; just another aspect of Israel’s macro agenda to grab more Palestinian resources and continue its policy of incremental genocide and slow ethnic cleansing.

    • just
      July 20, 2014, 4:56 pm

      More war crimes… *sigh* sob.

  31. Walid
    July 20, 2014, 3:06 pm

    Israel announced over 400 injured IDF soldiers and 18 dead.

    That’s a really big pickle, Annie.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      July 20, 2014, 3:11 pm

      Ali Abunimah is tweeting that Obama wants Netanyahu to call off the war.

      I have a suspicion that, if this is true, it has much less to do with the massacre of civilians than with the fact that an unacceptably high number of precious occupation soldiers have been killed, and Bibi is up shit creek. I’m guessing – again, assuming the story is true – that Bibi asked Obama to ‘pressure’ him into accepting a ceasefire. That way Israel will save face and extricate themselves from this quandary of thier own making. I mean, if Obama cared about civilians, wouldn’t he have opposed the ‘war’ from the start? He must know that, when the IDF goes on the rampage, huge numbers of Palestinians die.

      link to twitter.com

      • Mooser
        July 20, 2014, 3:24 pm

        Max, that sounds pretty plausible to me. Yup, now, Obama is concerned.

      • Walid
        July 20, 2014, 3:26 pm

        They have all been desperate to have the fighting stop because Gaza is now fighting and enduring all those dead and injured for the sake of their freedom. If the fighting simply stops, nothing will have been gained.

      • Walid
        July 20, 2014, 3:38 pm

        Israel’s 300-meter venture into Gaza and the digging for tunnels not so successful, Gaza shot 70 missiles into Israel today and the today’s fighting cost it 450 injured soldiers.

      • seafoid
        July 20, 2014, 4:12 pm

        1 day of rockets costs Israel’s hotels $15m.

      • a blah chick
        July 20, 2014, 3:29 pm

        How can he call it off? He’s got 18 dead and hundreds injured, if he calls it off now Bennet will eat him alive.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 3:36 pm

        He will say that Obama ‘pressured’ him into a ceasefire and he had no choice. Also, he’ll concoct some reason to say their ‘objectives have been achieved’.

        But yes, the even more extreme Israeli right will accuse him of being ‘soft’. Which means that, if the siege remains, there’ll be another ‘lawn mowing’ episode a year or two down the line. Walid is right: Hamas must insist, as far as they can, on having the siege lifted. If not, Gazans will be sitting ducks the next time – and there WILL be a next time – some Israeli ‘leader’ needs to appear macho or test new weaponry on lab rats.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 3:39 pm

        ”US President Barack Obama told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that he has serious concerns about the rising number of casualties from clashes between Israel and the Palestinians.

        Obama spoke by telephone to Netanyahu for the second time in three days. He told him Israel has the right to defend itself and he reiterated US condemnation of attacks by Hamas against Israel.

        “The president also raised serious concern about the growing number of casualties, including increasing Palestinian civilian deaths in Gaza and the loss of Israeli soldiers,” the White House said in a statement describing the conversation.

        [AFP]

        Since the White House has announced this publicly, it does seem they are laying the ground for a face-saving exercise for Bibi. Same thing happened in the July war eight years ago. Israel goes on a rampage, puts itself up shit creek, and the US is asked to bail them out.

      • Walid
        July 20, 2014, 3:52 pm

        Maximus, 8 years ago, it was the US that had ordered up the war and kept it going for 34 days. Israel wanted to stop after 7 days but the US and the Gulfies would not let it. It was only after Israel got itself in deep shit that the US allowed it to walk away from the battlefield. The purpose of the war back then was simply to take out Hizbullah, and Israel and the US failed. What we’re having today is a repeat, only this time it’s to take out Hamas. Same end result is in view.

      • Walid
        July 20, 2014, 3:45 pm

        An unconditional cease-fire is the worse thing that could happen to Gaza now. Tsunami of pressure building up on the Arab side to have Hamas roll over and play dead. I’m hoping Hamas holds on until the siege is lifted.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 3:53 pm

        I hope so too, Walid.

        Abunimah’s tweet said Obama mentioned a cease-fire along the lines of 2O12, ie, where the siege will be lifted at some unspecified time, ie never.

        I’m wondering where Qatar is in all this? Hamas, as MB, is supposed to be their ally? Apparently Israel ‘refused’ to deal with them as a ceasefire broker, presumably for that reason. But I hope Hamas aren’t daft enough to allow Egypt to be a ‘broker’.

        BTW I did not know that about the July war. I know the Khaleejis were behind Israel – they came close to openly admitting it, but then back-peddled when the scale of the slaughter became obvious. It was clear this was a planned war to ‘kwash de kheezbalakh’, surely as a back-door way to attack Iran.

      • seafoid
        July 20, 2014, 4:06 pm

        KSA and UAE. pulling The strings post MB in Egypt, deeply reactionary .Only qatar standing up for Gaza. And people everywhere .

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 4:10 pm

        Yes, but what are Qatar actually DOING to stand up for Gaza? Announcing a cut in gas sales to any country that supports Israel? Of course not.

        Don’t forget that only a few years ago, Shimon Peres received the red carpet treatment in Doha. With friends like the qataris, who needs enemies?

        link to matthewmachowski.com

      • seafoid
        July 20, 2014, 6:11 pm

        Hezb’s situation was different. The bots went home suitably chastened.
        Here the bots will continue the siege.
        So no listening to Obomba without concessions from Israel.

      • American
        July 21, 2014, 9:58 am

        Walid says:

        July 20, 2014 at 3:52 pm

        Maximus, 8 years ago, it was the US that had ordered up the war and kept it going for 34 days. Israel wanted to stop after 7 days but the US and the Gulfies would not let it. It was only after Israel got itself in deep shit that the US allowed it to walk away from the battlefield. The purpose of the war back then was simply to take out Hizbullah, and Israel and the US failed
        >>>>

        Why did the US want to take out Hizbollah?
        Because of Syria?
        Why would it want take out Syria?
        Because of Iran?
        Why would it want to take out Iran?

        Why did it take out Iraq?

        Now turn around and go back down the path.

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 3:50 pm
      • just
        July 20, 2014, 3:51 pm

        not such a bad thing, abc…..

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 3:47 pm

        How I wish MDM…perhaps Kerry’s off- air comments were not a gaffe…..

      • ritzl
        July 20, 2014, 5:33 pm

        Good point, just. It could be another example/version of the celebrity tweet and retract tactic. It tells millions that they’re not feeling this way in isolation and/or that they’re not crazy.

        Even though it looks flighty, the tactic has the capacity to connect and support tens of millions of like-minded people. We may be seeing the results in the startling number of people at the protests everywhere.

      • Sumud
        July 20, 2014, 3:54 pm

        If they kill too many people in Gaza the world will force them to end the siege, that’s the last thing Netanyahu could cope with.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 4:00 pm

        What’s ‘too many people’ seafoid? Israel murdered 15OO in ‘cast lead’ and the siege only intensified.

      • seafoid
        July 20, 2014, 6:14 pm

        2008 is such a long time ago. Delegitimisation wasn’t even discussed at Herzliya back then.

        Israel is stuck between the risk of killing too many civilians and the risk of losing too many NJBs (Nice Jewish boys) . Hasbara has been in better shape and Israel also needs to get the tourists coming back in.

        It’s a big decision in a town called malice.
        Most of that Likud bravado is horseshit at the best of times and Bennett is
        even less connected to reality.

  32. seafoid
    July 20, 2014, 3:52 pm

    wonder how judaism Is going to react to this development. No 2 states . Massacres . Rabid Yossi Israeli. A nation of Jews against human rights . The Sderot Gaza cinema. The nihilism. And this Is still jewish . This Is The sanctuary . These are. our sociopaths.

    • Sumud
      July 20, 2014, 4:00 pm

      They’re in a serious state of denial seafoid, nursing a full-time ziocaine addiction.

      I was speaking w/ some young man on twitter about Israel’s looming implosion and I pointed out Ayalet Shaked and what it means for a country when an MK says that and is lionised. All he had to say that she was “1 backbencher” then wanted to talk about the Hamas charter.

    • Walid
      July 20, 2014, 4:01 pm

      Hamas (Kassam Brigade) is saying that Israel is still not admitting its actual losses; especially about the captured IDF soldier, Shaul Aaron and they gave his serial number 6092065.

      Looks like we’re now into Shalit II.

      People in Gaza are all in the streets jubilant at the news.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 4:07 pm

        And this time, they’ll have a much harder time convincing the world to feel sorry for a poor, innocent young boy who was ‘kidnapped’.

        If this story is true – and it seems to be – then Bibi is deep in the doggy doo. The capture of a live IDF soldier is more of a benefit to the resistance than 1o dead ones. This is big.

      • ziusudra
        July 21, 2014, 7:54 am

        Greetings MDM,
        …. Bibi is deep in….
        Me thinks that the high echelon Zio staff
        must now pull Bibi out of the fray, so as to
        deceive us that Zionistan has had enough
        with this Zion Nazi Goebbels! Yes, they
        will bring in popeye bouncer Lieberman.
        ziusudra
        PS They will blame Hamas if they refuse to
        acquiese to this new Führer.

      • Sumud
        July 20, 2014, 4:08 pm

        On Shalid II, first Walid damn you beat me I was going to say that!

        There will be no cease fire for a long time as long now as Hamas have an IDF soldier. Netanyahu is now in quagmire territory.

        Meanwhile the IDF have captured 18 Palestinian Gilad Shalits whose names I don’t think we’ll be seeing in the NYT any time soon.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 4:12 pm

        Hard to say how it could play out….. it’s true that the IDF bombed Gaza heavily when Shalit was captured, but if they repeat that, I doubt Hamas would hesitate to execute the captive. What Israeli leader wants to be seen as the man who sacrified one of their precious soldiers?

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 5:00 pm

        Seriously pickled now.

      • a blah chick
        July 20, 2014, 4:09 pm

        Finally, a real human shield! They need to rotate him through the various medical stations to keep them from being bombed.

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 5:00 pm

        A very good idea. Give him a mop.

  33. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    July 20, 2014, 4:03 pm

    Ayman Mohyeldin tweeting that Hamas has announced the capture of an Israeli soldier.

    link to twitter.com

    I hope they’ve got heavy duty nappies over at IDF Central.

  34. Mooser
    July 20, 2014, 4:10 pm

    “wonder how judaism Is going to react to this development. “

    Seafoid, you know a lot more about this than me, I am sure, so help me out a little (not that I deserve it). When you say “Judaism is going to react” what do you mean? Who do you mean? It’s hard to think of any way that “Judaism” could even express this reaction (or for that matter, register the reaction) that isn’t an organization which is basically Zionist, or defers to Zionism. (Apart from a few courageous outlets for Jewish reaction)
    We all keep hoping for something, anything, in reaction to the Zionists from Judaism. But I wonder, does Judaism, at this time, have any alternative to Zionism as an organizing principle and ‘ideal’? Very few alternatives are offered.
    Almost any “reaction” which can with any truth can call itself “Jewish” will be at the least filtered through Zionism at every level.
    If a reaction comes, it’ll come, (speaking generally) from the bottom up, instead of from the top down. All we’ve gotten from the top down is Zionism, and/or apologists. Something happening in American Judaism from the bottom up is unprecedented, at least in my lifetime.

    • Mooser
      July 20, 2014, 5:16 pm

      If somebody has a hopeful prognosis to offer on my questions in the above comment, I’d sure like to hear it. As far as I can see, American Jews, if they are to take any but an (at least) conformist stance, will have to do it as individuals, I don’t know if they will get much help from the institutions, such as they are, of Judaism.

      • Castellio
        July 20, 2014, 7:49 pm

        I too would like to hear it.

        I think individuals will be affected and will, by and large, as in the past, remain quiet about how it affects them. I can’t see any major Jewish organization “changing direction” because of recent events. They will continue in the direction of polarization they are already following.

        Will the smaller organizations (Jews for a Just Peace, Rabbis for Human Rights, etc) begin to play a more important role? I want to believe that, however…

      • Marnie
        July 21, 2014, 8:42 am

        What would be helpful would be if we’d all start referring to ourselves as human beings instead of by tribal affiliation – can’t we go by what we are first and foremost? Also, personally very tired of every good deed or thought prefaced by jewish, as if jews are the only ones capable of such things. Jews don’t have the market on intelligence, good deeds, or especially suffering, and to be fair and balanced, they don’t have the market on brutality (but some are trying very hard to change that status).

    • RoHa
      July 20, 2014, 8:00 pm

      “All we’ve gotten from the top down is Zionism, and/or apologists. ”

      Mooser, Annie gets shirty if I point that out.

  35. HarryLaw
    July 20, 2014, 4:13 pm

    Most people on this site and all Palestinians agree, Israel is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity on a daily basis. And yet the so called leader of the Palestinians will not formally join the ICC, he has said “I don’t like to go to courts” “I don’t like courts” and “I want to solve my problems directly between the parties”. Have the last few weeks changed his mind? I doubt it.

    • Walid
      July 20, 2014, 4:39 pm

      A few minutes ago, al-Mayadeen called Erekat in Doha to ask him for his reaction to the capture of the IDF soldier. There was silence after the journalist’s question and it appeared as if the line went dead. Guess that could be interpreted as a “no comment”.

      Elsewhere, celebrations under way all over the West Bank including Jerusalem and in Arab towns in Israel.

      • Walid
        July 20, 2014, 4:46 pm

        Haaretz today:

        “Thirteen Israeli soldiers were killed on Sunday in several incidents across the Gaza Strip, bringing to a total 18 troop fatalities in less than two days.

        The IDF spokesman released a statement confirming that during fighting, 13 soldiers in the Golani Brigade were killed. Two of the soldiers were U.S. citizens, the IDF confirmed.

        “The IDF is currently completing the identification process; when the process is completed, and with the families’ approval, the names of the fatalities will be released,” the statement said.

        In one incident in the Tufah neighborhood north of Shujaiyeh, Golani troops fell into an ambush in which an RPG was fired at their APC, killing seven and severly wounding two. Senior IDF officers criticized the use of the aging APC, built in the 1960s. In another incident, three soldiers were killed, including two officers in the battalion. Three more soldiers were killed in another gun battle nearby.

        In another incident, an anti-tank rocket was fired at a building in Shujaiyeh where troops were staying, killing three and wounding many more.

        Six Golani soldiers were wounded in another incident, when a grenade exploded near their positions. Army officials do not know whether the grenade was thrown by army troops and wounded the soldiers afterward, or thrown at the troops by armed Palestinians. In yet another incident, several soldiers suffered from smoke inhalation.

        Five soldiers were killed on Saturday: First Sergeant Eitan Barak, 20, of Herzliya; Major Amotz Greenberg, 45 of Hod HaSharon; Sergeant Adar Bersano,20, of Nahariya; Second Lieutenant Bar Rahav, 21 of Ramat Yishai; and Sergeant Bnaya Rubel, 20 of Holon.”

        link to haaretz.com

        Not mentioned in the Haaretz article are the 89 IDF soldiers injured in Touffah today.

      • a blah chick
        July 20, 2014, 4:59 pm

        “Senior IDF officers criticized the use of the aging APC, built in the 1960s.”

        The military there gets Billions, why the hell do they use equipment that is more than forty years old? Could it be that their racism has so blinded their leaders that they can’t conceive their enemies as being smart, resourceful or brave?

      • Marnie
        July 21, 2014, 8:53 am

        Great point, but I think they expect them to make do while they make hay after taking a good piece off the top of that 3 billion. Also, this remark might have been a subtle way of telling the US Congress to pony up more dough.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 4:59 pm

        IDF apparently saying the ‘captured’ soldier is dead.

        We only have their word, versus that of Qassam Brigades, but I believe the latter.

      • lysias
        July 20, 2014, 5:11 pm

        What were U.S. citizens doing in the Golani Brigade?

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 5:26 pm

        Don’t get me started…..

      • lysias
        July 20, 2014, 5:36 pm

        We learn the identity of one of them. Max Steinberg, from L.A., had been a sniper in the Golani Brigade since 2012. Sounds as if he was a professional soldier. LA Jewish Journal: Max Steinberg, L.A. native and IDF volunteer, killed in Gaza:

        Max Steinberg, a Woodland Hills native and volunteer in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), was killed Sunday along with 12 other soldiers in the Gaza Strip, amidst an Israeli operation to quell rocket fire and destroy underground smuggling tunnels.

        Although the details of Steinberg’s death are not yet known, the IDF reported that 13 soldiers in the Golani brigade were killed in three separate incidents that spanned over eight hours Sunday morning. All of the deaths occurred in the dense Gaza City neighborhood of Shejaiya.

        Seven soldiers were killed when an armored personnel carrier drove over an explosive device shortly after 1 a.m. and three more soldiers were killed during a firefight with a Hamas terror cell. Just before 9 a.m., the military reported, three Golani reconnaissance soldiers were killed when a fire spread through a building they were in.

        Steinberg, who attended Pierce College and El Camino Real High School, was a sniper in Golani, according to his Facebook page, and joined the IDF in December 2012. He was living in the city of Beersheba.

        Shejaiya has been used by Hamas as a launching pad for rockets and as a starting point for sophisticated underground tunnels that extend into Israeli territory, the IDF said.

        The military also reported Sunday that 140 rockets have been fired from Shejaiya and that 10 tunnels have been discovered there since July 8, when Israel launched Operation Protective Edge as a response to Hamas rocket fire.

        Steinberg’s name, along with those of the 12 other fallen soldiers, were initially withheld as the army waited to identify the victims and notify their families.

      • Citizen
        July 20, 2014, 6:57 pm

        @ lysias
        They volunteered, walked past the US military recruiter and signed up with the Israeli recruiter. link to breitbart.com

      • yonah fredman
        July 20, 2014, 7:13 pm

        As far as choosing the Israeli recruiter over the American recruiter: Face it, except for a few years in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, very very very few Americans join up out of patriotism, most most most join up for the boost it will give them into a career or college track that is unavailable to them if they wouldn’t sign up. The American recruiter is one who will tell you the advantages of signing up. The Israeli recruiter is there for those American Jews who feel a desire to express their participation in the Zionist enterprise by defending the Jewish state. the American recruiter is a practical choice that these youngsters do not need. The Israeli recruiter is an idealistic choice that these youngsters have made.

      • lysias
        July 20, 2014, 5:24 pm

        The colonel commanding the Golani Brigade was also seriously wounded and evacuated to hospital. Arutz Sheva: Golani Brigade Commander Seriously Injured: Colonel Raslan Alian the first Druze commander of Golani; four additional soldiers evacuated to Tel HaShomer.. Whatever happened, it sounds as if it was a real disaster for the IDF.

      • lysias
        July 22, 2014, 7:00 pm

        Turns out the second American killed, Sean Carmeli from Texas, was also a sergeant in the Golani Brigade. He apparently was driving the armored personnel carrier that was hit by an antitank weapon.

      • seafoid
        July 20, 2014, 6:16 pm

        Haaretz is clearly heavily censored. Usually it’s good for Israel info but it’s shit this weekend.

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 6:33 pm

        no kidding.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 4:50 pm

        Yes, AJE showing live pictures of people out on the streets in Gaza and Ramalllah, celebrating the news.

        No doubt those who had nothing to say about Sderot Cinema will be tut-tutting at those primitive Palestinians celebrating what by any standards is a formidable and legitimate military achievement.

        On a related note, Bibi is deep deep into shit creek.

      • a blah chick
        July 20, 2014, 5:08 pm

        Walid, the IDF is right now claiming this fellow is dead.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 5:42 pm

        It’s all very confusing. I don’t think the IDF themselves have made any comment, but some sources are saying that the guy was on a list of ‘fallen’ soldiers last night, but that that post had since been deleted. Also, Hamas themselves, as opposed to Qassam Brigades, haven’t confirmed the capture. However, it took them several hours to announce the death of the 15 soldiers yesterday, so I wouldn’t expect them to admit the guy was captured yet.

        I do think it’s more likely than not that the QB are telling the truth. So far, they’ve shown themselves to be a more trustworthy source than the IDF< which admittedly isn't saying much. And I don't think they'd risk stirring up such celebrations, only to have it revealed they were lying to the Palestinian people. But it's really hard to know what's going on. The only way to know for sure is if Hamas produce the soldier holding today's copy of 'Al Quds'. Let's see.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 6:13 pm

        Al J E’s Jerusalem correspondent claiming that ”Israeli sources” are saying that Hamas do have an Israeli soldier but that it’s most likely he’s dead, not alive. I wonder how they’d know though. Clearly, the guy QB are claiming is captured did not return to the barracks, so he’s either dead or captured. Not sure how the IDF can know which is which – it’s clear that their intelligence in Gaza is pretty poor.

        Also on AJE, Osama Hamdan seemed to confirm that a soldier had been captured. Still all very unclear.

      • seafoid
        July 21, 2014, 5:14 pm

        Maxi

        link to theguardian.com
        “Meanwhile, army spokesman Peter Lerner said the IDF could not rule out the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier by Hamas, despite denials late on Sunday by the Israeli ambassador to the UN, Ron Prosor. Investigations were continuing, the IDF said”

      • lysias
        July 21, 2014, 5:53 pm

        Seafoid, I see Lerner used the inappropriate word “kidnap”.

    • ritzl
      July 20, 2014, 5:23 pm

      Hanan Asrawi [sp] said today on ABC that the “decision had been taken” by the PLO to accede to the Rome Statute as and the ICC.

      I’ll try to get the link.

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 5:29 pm

        good. thanks ritzl.

      • Walid
        July 20, 2014, 5:30 pm

        “decision had been taken”

        Is this some kind of palace revolt while Abbas and his group are away trying to remove Netanyahu’s chestnuts from the fire?

      • ritzl
        July 20, 2014, 5:37 pm

        I don’t know, Walid. That’s just what she said. I hope it’s a real thing.

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 5:40 pm

        link to Hanan:

        “When Macdonald asked Ashrawi if Palestinians plan to apply to join the International Criminal Court to bring war crime charges against Israel, she said they plan to take that step, but she’d like to see the situation addressed by the international community before a legal case is prepared.

        “I don’t believe the world has to wait until we do these things and until we prepare these cases,” Ashrawi said. “There has to be immediate intervention to provide the Palestinians with protecting, to curb the Israeli violations and to hold Israel accountable.””

        link to abcnews.go.com

      • ritzl
        July 20, 2014, 6:06 pm

        Sorry to double you, just. The vid contains some more nuggets and is uncharacteristically emotional. Even Palestinian stoics like Asrawi are at their wits end.

      • Inanna
        July 21, 2014, 1:08 am

        Hostage will be happy about that just and ritzl. Where are you Hostage?

      • ritzl
        July 20, 2014, 5:47 pm
      • just
        July 20, 2014, 6:39 pm

        I knew you were looking and I found it had just been posted, so I did it.

        Many thanks.

      • Daniel Rich
        July 21, 2014, 4:16 am

        @ just,

        I’ve always respected and admired Dr. Ashrawi. One hell of a woman. I really hope she’ll get back in the saddle and leads Palestine back to where it so rightfully belon9gs.

        “This morning, it’s nothing short of a massacre, a deliberate massacre. War crimes committed daily. But now there is a deliberate shelling and bombing and destruction of whole areas, of residential areas. These are war crimes being committed before the world, before the eyes of the whole world and I just can’t understand how people sit back and say [it’s] self-defense. I just can’t take the language, I can’t take the propaganda, I can’t take the mantra that Israel has a right to defend itself. Against whom? Against innocent civilians? More than 80 children have been torn to bits. Is this self-defense?” – Dr. Ashrawi

        Its per ritzl’s link.

      • Daniel Rich
        July 21, 2014, 4:11 am

        @ Inanna,

        Q: Where are you Hostage?

        R: I haven’t seen him/her for weeks. I love/d all his/her contributions and the treasure trove of knowledge s/he always brings/brought to the table.

        I hope s/he sipping a martini on the upper deck :o)

  36. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    July 20, 2014, 4:38 pm

    I can’t decide if the capture of the IDF solider – appears to be an ‘elite’ Golani brigade member – is good or bad. On the one hand, it’s great that Hamas has a bargaining chip – we all know how the Israelis fret over their precious soldiers.

    On the other, Israeli rage and vindictiveness – both of which should NEVER be underestimated – might lead them to do what they do best, and then some: blow up civilians in huge numbers. And if they kill the captured soldier, well then, they might say, that’s war, and some sacrifices are neccessary.

    What does anyone think? Help me out here!

    • Walid
      July 20, 2014, 5:44 pm

      Maximus, expect Israel to now carpet-bomb a couple of neighbourhoods, just to get it out of their system. They coined the term “Dahieh Doctrine” back in 2006 and they’ve had ants in their pants since then to repeat it on the Palestinians. Now’s their opportunity.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        July 20, 2014, 5:55 pm

        Yes, I fear that – assuming the soldier has indeed been captured – the rage and spite of the IDF will lead them to redouble their massacres. Already, suburbs in the East of Gaza have had electricity cut off. It’s going to be another horrible night, I fear.

      • Marnie
        July 21, 2014, 12:25 pm

        It’s said they don’t want to reoccupy Gaza. They will leave it a huge cemetary if they aren’t stopped. I pray every night for God to end this. I can’t believe the world is witness to this horror and chants the mantra “israel has a right to defend itself”. The Palestinians have no rights? Have they been so marginalized by their own weak leadership that they get kicked to the curb every time and netanyahu and criminal consorts smirk and talk about doing more and more damage? Dr. Ashwari is a treasure, always so controlled and thoughtful in the face of this ongoing wickedness. The evil is palpable.

    • amigo
      July 20, 2014, 7:17 pm

      MDM try this.

      Put him under administrative detention.

      That,s after intensive interrogation.Do it by the book.IDF BOOK , that is.

    • WeAreAllMadeOfStars
      July 20, 2014, 7:19 pm

      Dear MDM,
      We, as people of consciousness, have absolutely no way to predict how a heartless-brainless monster, let alone a full army of them, will behave …

      Dear Gazans
      I’m so ashamed I can be of so little, next to nothing to help you right now … We want to help you, but it turns out you are to be admired for all your Human qualities. Love.

    • Daniel Rich
      July 21, 2014, 3:33 am

      @ MDM,

      Q: And if they kill the captured soldier, well then, they might say, that’s war, and some sacrifices are neccessary.

      R: According to the hasbara manual, paragraph 6, section 6, guideline 6g; every single of the troops loyal to Netanyahoo who dies, is killed by Hamas [even in case of friendly fire].

  37. gracie fr
    July 20, 2014, 4:40 pm

    Israeli logic has been carefully calibrated to sow confusion with the aim of absolving the IDF of war crimes…
    The distinction between civilians and combatants in the laws of war, alongside the principle of proportionality, is supposed to provide minimal protections to the civilians who are caught up in a “conflict” zone. Israeli military onslaughts on Lebanon in 2006 and on Gaza 2009 deliberately sought to erode the distinction by attacking the “civilian infrastructure” supporting the “combatants” and expanding the latter’s definition.
    . If the reference point of retaliation are the combatants rather than the civilians, then civilians are defined as a negation. They are an afterthought. Rather than being the norm, they become the exception. The expectation and fear thus lingers beneath the categories that define and represent the reality of the oppressed: they are against the invader and hence are suspected of being combatants until proven otherwise. The Israeli reaction to every report of civilian casualties is representative of this view by indicating that the fatal strike targeted a combatant. The international parties call for restraint and return to calm: i.e., to proportional civilian suffering, unattainable peace, and absence of freedom.
    link to criticallegalthinking.com

    • seafoid
      July 20, 2014, 6:18 pm

      I don’t think any of the carefully calibrated arguments would stand up in front of a serious court. Zionism reminds me of Lehman Bros. Dodgy models and when it goes down a lot of people will be very happy.

  38. wes
    July 20, 2014, 5:09 pm

    2nd phase starting,civilians should evacuate south of gaza city

    • Shingo
      July 20, 2014, 6:49 pm

      Israel should withdraw from Gaza and pay massive reparations. Abbas needs to go to the ICC.

      If he refuses, he should be charged with treason.

  39. RobertB
    July 20, 2014, 5:49 pm

    The hundreds of Palestinian deaths and the 1500 plus injured to defend their basic human dignity, their human rights…after decades of suffering under Israel’s “nazi army” and its brutal occupation.

    Just imagine if the Palestinians had 20%-30% of the weapons that Israel’s has in its arsenal … Palestinians need to rid themselves of Apartheid Israel’s suffocating occupation…they need weapons to defend their people, their dignity, their honor….

    1.7 million Palestinians cooped up in the most heavily populated spot on earth & closed up from directions for years…what country…what people can continue with that situation and conditions. It can’t keep going on forever!

    THE TRUTH IS ON THE SIDE OF THE OPPRESSED!

  40. eGuard
    July 20, 2014, 6:01 pm

    I compliment Mondoweiss for bringing this big in top: “Massacre in Gaza”. And next time, the word “Israel” should be right next to it.

  41. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    July 20, 2014, 6:23 pm

    Massive celebrations in Ramallah, with thousands on the streets, many waving Hamas flags. Seems some of them stormed a near-by ‘settlement’ too.

    Fatah must be almost as worried as Bibi right now. They’ve been shown up for the spineless collaborators they are, even enabling the massacres in Gaza, whereas Hamas have put up stiff resistance, particularly if the story of the captured soldier is true. The Palestinian people are not fools, and may now demand more from their ‘leaders’.

  42. HarryLaw
    July 20, 2014, 6:39 pm

    Ashrawi said ” she’d like to see the situation addressed by the international community before a legal case is prepared”. Excuse me, the International community has had 47 years to do something, it has failed, not least because of the US veto at the UNSC. The Palestinian leadership have already asked the ICC to investigate the situation in Palestine the ICC in return have asked for the Palestinians to join the court, they have refused to do so. The Palestinians have a right to ask the International community to act. But when they do not act themselves and join the court, the one venue Israel/US fear, one must ask the question, why?

    • Castellio
      July 20, 2014, 7:56 pm

      Yes, why? Blackmail? Fear of death of their own children, etc? Fear of a cooked court when they get there? Why?

      Does Hostage know, has he ever addressed that question specifically?

      • just
        July 20, 2014, 8:49 pm

        Hostage is apparently on hiatus.

        Some pearls of Hostage wisdom wrt ICC can be found here:

        link to mondoweiss.net

        (I sure wish Hostage’s erudite self was here)

      • Castellio
        July 21, 2014, 12:32 am

        Thanks, Just. Appreciated.

      • W.Jones
        July 21, 2014, 1:14 am

        The answer why they didn’t join is because of Israeli pressure. The PLO wants to be tolerated by their conquerors and not treated as bad as Hamas.

    • Abierno
      July 21, 2014, 12:07 am

      Haaretz article of July 9 2014 stated Abbas had signed paperwork to join ICC.

  43. Citizen
    July 20, 2014, 7:20 pm

    Kerry remarks on Israel’s assault on #Gaza: “It’s a hell of a pinpoint operation.” link to nyti.ms

    • bilal a
      July 20, 2014, 8:29 pm

      Civilian Palestinians have no where to flee and little control over the military operations of the missile cells. So what is the military purpose , what is the psychological purpose,of terror bombing of children in Gaza?

      Not to terrorize the Arabs, but the West, especially Europe.(They can proliferate surface to air missiles and dirty bombs right onto EU borders)

      The mad man theory : Why looking crazy can be an asset

      link to foreignpolicy.com

      “We kill our enemies’ children. Beware… “

      • Pixel
        July 20, 2014, 10:20 pm

        But they ARE crazy.

  44. Shingo
    July 20, 2014, 8:51 pm

    Kerry and Obama are clearly sick of Israel’s barbarity.
    link to huffingtonpost.com

    • Castellio
      July 21, 2014, 12:38 am

      I don’t believe it. It is not as if those two men are powerless. They could begin by speaking the truth in public. They could say, for instance, that the great crime of the Palestinians is that they are not Jewish, for if they were Jewish then the Israeli state would find housing for them, and schools, and first rate medical care.

      • Justpassingby
        July 21, 2014, 6:45 am

        Castellio

        Fully agree, they are the ones making it possible, they have blood on their hands!

      • Mooser
        July 21, 2014, 8:02 pm

        “They could say, for instance, that the great crime of the Palestinians is that they are not Jewish,”

        Of course if they were Jewish, they would be, well “Arab Jews” and I’m not sure they would have been well treated at all by Zionists. And if they were Arab Jews and wanted to stay in control of the place they lived in I’m not sure Zionists would have found them inviolate.

    • Annie Robbins
      July 21, 2014, 2:29 am
  45. ckg
    July 20, 2014, 9:17 pm

    Ted Rall and Matt Bors weigh in.

  46. crone
    July 20, 2014, 9:48 pm

    Boomer

    DIME stands for Dense Inert Metal Explosive – it’s a bitch… another no/no that Israel continues to use. Here’s wiki on it
    link to en.wikipedia.org

    DIME does horrific damage… remember the 4 boys on the beach? The first one shot, whose father picked up his body parts and put them into a garbage bag?

    Another no/no Israel is using, besides the ever ready to hand WP, is flechette rounds

    Independent has piece on those here: link to independent.co.uk

    Israel used them in the last two sieges on Gaza… remember when IDF shot photographer/journalist and the flechettes scattered killing 8 civilians also?

    NO ONE can say Israel is trying to NOT hit civilians. NO ONE. and be truthful.

    • seafoid
      July 21, 2014, 2:49 am

      link to haaretz.com

      “Gantz spoke of the need to persevere in carrying out missions and of the moral duty to defend the citizens of Israel without inflicting unnecessary harm on enemy civilians. The pressure on him and the government is mounting. There is enormous sensitivity in Israel to losing soldiers in combat. Paradoxically, it is greater than the sensitivity to the loss of civilian lives.

      It’s not a paradox- that’s Zionism
      Sadly the goys see things differently

      and what about this ?

      “The Israeli public, most of which adapted with admirable serenity to rocket fire on the home front, will now have to also bear the burden of combat deaths. The wild rampage on social networks is not exactly assisting in dissipating passions. An exaggerated wave of rumors spread yesterday. At its low point, not only were the names of victims posted on ‘whatsapp’ before families had been notified, but pictures of coffins prepared at a central base for casualties in Shujaiyeh were shown as well. This was long before the media were allowed to report the casualties. If reserve soldiers were responsible for this it is scandalous”

      you are just sitting down on a couch in Sderot watching the cinema – you don’t expect nice Jewish boys to die .

    • Kay24
      July 21, 2014, 9:02 am

      If we had a credible, free from zionist influence media, they would ask the apologists for this massacre, why they are using these banned weapons on civilians, if they are genuinely trying to avoid the deaths of civilians. We all know they spew BS, but the media is instructed to give them a free pass from the lies.

  47. Walid
    July 21, 2014, 2:26 am

    Good news or bad news? Nasrallah has declared he stands with Hamas; does that mean just spiritually or all the way?

    • seafoid
      July 21, 2014, 2:58 am

      The lawnmowing exercise must be doing serious damage to the q3 economic figures for Israel if so many people are spending so much time in bomb shelters.

      link to ezranet.com

      • Kay24
        July 21, 2014, 8:58 am

        Reports are Israel is taking a huge hit in their economy, with tourism down, and business is not as usual.
        As for the fund raising, they are experts at it. Even prior to this war situation, they try to get the sympathy of Americans, and fund raise for starving children in Israel (if they are starving imagine the poor Gazans)
        I have seen billboards with cute Israeli kids looking appealing down on us, asking for AID. Yeah, they are well organized at fund raising. Maybe they need funds for their continuous war crimes. War is expensive as we know, after the fiascos in Afghanistan and Iraq, for which we still pay.

  48. seafoid
    July 21, 2014, 3:24 am

    Support now comes qualified

    link to theguardian.com

    “David Cameron also spoke with Netanyahu, reiterating “the UK’s strong support for Israel’s right to take proportionate action to defend itself from” Gaza rockets, while expressing condolences over the Israeli deaths and concern over the “mounting civilian casualties in Gaza.””

    Meanwhile Yossi Israeli wants to raze Gaza to the ground because a few Golani soldiers were killed

    • Kay24
      July 21, 2014, 8:49 am

      That is sad, but when you consider just how evil these war criminals are on a regular basis, you expect the humiliation of having their elite brigade take a huge loss, must enrage them, and bruise their massive egos. Those who suffer from more Israeli wrath will be the unarmed civilians. Already they showed their anger by bombing a family of 30 in a home they claim belonged to a Hamas member.
      They are out of their element over there in Gaza, they don’t know their way, they are in a nerve wracking situation, that is why they try to bomb from afar, now it seems using banned weapons.

    • Kay24
      July 21, 2014, 8:53 am

      No surprise. Israel can dish out, but does not have the damn guts to take it.

      Imagine their humiliation, when the world hears that they lost many from an elite brigade to an outfit that has weapons far less inferior to what they, the 6th largest arms manufacturer, plus use the most sophisticated weapons sent by us, brags about.

      • seafoid
        July 21, 2014, 12:17 pm

        Apparently Hamas are using Hezb tactics which have their roots in anti Yank activity in Iraq …Israel of course wanted that war ….

  49. Daniel Rich
    July 21, 2014, 3:26 am

    The young men’s love of Israel ultimately led them to join the Israel Defense Forces, and they ended up fighting for the Jewish state in the Gaza Strip this week.

    Too bad they let others die for America.

    I’m in bit of a moral crisis at the moment. The only time I embrace death is when a person no longer has to suffer. I don’t want anyone dead. No matter whom.

    When I read about the 13/15 dead Apartheid State’s soldiers, I missed my natural feeling of compassion for the first time ever. I didn’t feel joy or elated, I felt something along the line of ‘Ah, a little bit balance back.’

    I don’t want to see more death and destruction, I want it to stop. The only person to stop this is CIC Obama…

    Please, Mr. Obama, sir, do the right thing and either intervene to save lives [on both sides] or go back to Oslo with your head hanging down and give back the Nobel peace prize, for you are not worthy of it. This is your last chance to prove the real ‘world community’ wrong. Act now.

  50. Walid
    July 21, 2014, 4:36 am

    Israel this morning reported 5 of its dead in 2 separate attacks on them. Also admitted to using 6 flechette bombs. These are used to kill as many people as possible in areas of heavy concentration of people.

    “Small” phosphorus bombs being dropped on peripheral areas of Gaza this morning. These are legally being used to light the sky or to create a smoke screen.

    Shifa Hospital reporting treating people hit with DIME munitions.

    • seafoid
      July 21, 2014, 4:54 am

      The Goldstone report was pulled because the bots objected to the assertion that Israel deliberately killed civilians. And they are doing it again.

      The Sderot cinema is probably the most powerful image to come from the whole situation. Israel doesn’t care about civilian casualties. It’s all linked to the memes of Zionism.

      • Walid
        July 21, 2014, 5:25 am

        13 Golanis (I understood the 13th fell to friendly fire) must have really shaken up the already weak Israeli confidence. Same thing had happened to the Golanis in Bint Jbail and Maroun al-Ras. Another tank taken out this morning by the Kassam Brigade in which 5 IDF soldiers were killed. Those Golanis are not up to the image created of them. Marches by Israeli mothers to get their boys out of Gaza should be starting soon.

      • seafoid
        July 21, 2014, 6:23 am

        Mowing the lawn isn’t just cynical- it also expresses the Israeli assumption of eternal fighting superiority

        link to haaretz.com.

        “With due caution given the circumstances, it should be noted that in recent years the IDF has had no experience in ground battles in general and in Gaza in particular.”

        They just kill via drones and pick off kids with sniper fire.
        And they could hardly send in the Checkpoint Sunglasses Battalion.

        I think they had a similar shock in 1973 before the Yanks started the resupply.

      • a blah chick
        July 21, 2014, 7:14 am

        “Checkpoint Sunglasses Battalion.”

        I am stealing that!

      • Daniel Rich
        July 21, 2014, 9:01 am

        @ seafoid,

        Q: Checkpoint Sunglasses Battalion.

        R: Dude, you’s on a roll today. Now, slip me some skin, bro…

        I’m still lol, lol, lol..

        Ouch.

    • eljay
      July 21, 2014, 8:39 am

      >> Israel … admitted to using 6 flechette bombs. … “Small” phosphorus bombs being dropped on peripheral areas of Gaza this morning. … Shifa Hospital reporting treating people hit with DIME munitions.

      Wow, Israel really is “doing all efforts”! The Potato-man must be swollen impossibly large with pride at being Israeli.

      • Kay24
        July 21, 2014, 8:44 am

        Well that is the way they “defend” themselves, they know they can use any damn thing they want, and the US and it’s subservient congress, will keep supporting these war criminals.

    • just
      July 21, 2014, 9:10 am

      “The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) did not deny using the shells in the conflict. “As a rule, the IDF only employs weapons that have been determined lawful under international law, and in a manner which fully conforms with the laws of armed conflict,” a spokesperson said in response to a request for specific comment on the deployment of flechettes.

      B’Tselem, an Israeli human rights organisation, describes a flechette shell as “an anti-personnel weapon that is generally fired from a tank. The shell explodes in the air and releases thousands of metal darts 37.5mm in length, which disperse in a conical arch 300 metres long and about 90 metres wide”.

      The munitions are not prohibited under international humanitarian law, but according to B’Tselem, “other rules of humanitarian law render their use in the Gaza Strip illegal…..”

      For a look at the horrible flechette darts:

      link to theguardian.com

  51. Egbert
    July 21, 2014, 5:39 am

    Just been reading a article about this on Tikun Olam. Somebody misread the article title and thought there was a real IDF spokesman called Major Fashla.

    • Annie Robbins
      July 21, 2014, 6:27 am

      508? i doubt it. that’s what it was a few hours ago.

      • Daniel Rich
        July 21, 2014, 7:25 am

        @ Annie Robbins,

        The numbers are very, very depressing as it is. To think many more lives have been lost… it just makes me sick to the stomach…

    • Kay24
      July 21, 2014, 8:42 am

      I just heard that 30 members of one family was massacred this morning, when the IDF targeted a home of (supposed to be) a Hamas member. I guess yesterday made Israel look like they are getting their behinds kicked, so expect them to be enraged, and take their anger out of more civilians.

  52. aiman
    July 21, 2014, 6:12 am

    Maximus is right. In fact, international law allows resistance against armed aggression as long as it’s not directed against civilians. The question of feeling care and concern toward soldiers is a general human one. And if you feel that toward these soldiers, I hope you extend that empathy to aggressors of other religions and nations. I would rather spend my time and effort to express concern for innocents and the meek wherever they live and whatever they believe.

  53. seafoid
    July 21, 2014, 6:30 am

    link to haaretz.com

    “Four more bodies were identified in Khan Younis under the rubble of a demolished house belonging to the Abu Jama family, raising the death toll in that specific house to 13. ”

    Accusing Israel of killing civilians deliberately is a blood libel .
    Israel is deeply sorry

    • Walid
      July 21, 2014, 6:42 am

      Good video, seafoid, it showed me that the spokeswoman in it was Miri Eisen that I had previously identified as Miri Regev; my mistake.

  54. Daniel Rich
    July 21, 2014, 7:18 am

    “The arrogance of the Apartheid State’s Über Command has again chalked up a bloody nose. One would exp-”

    “We’re special…!”

    Hezbollah’s Intelligence War.

    One of the first things Sun Tzu penned down was “Do not underestimate your adversary…”

    That went right over a few heads… obviously…

  55. just
    July 21, 2014, 7:21 am

    Well, give Chairman Royce a gold star of David.

    When wolf asked him if he thought that the criticism that Israel was using disproportionate force, etc (dead children) was correct, he answered not at all, they go out of their way to avoid civilians, unlike Hamas who uses their people as shields so they can fire the rockets that are supplied by Iran… he mentioned Iran about 5x……

    Now with Iran. It’s a first in many days afaik.

    • Kay24
      July 21, 2014, 8:37 am

      I watched it too, it was utterly disgusting, and it was obvious he was doing the hasbara for his beloved country, that not being the US.

      Isn’t it strange the blame for this brutal massacre ALL goes to Hamas.
      Guess who pulls the final trigger for those precision bombs to go into civilian homes?
      Don’t we blame the gunman who fires at children in schools, for firing that gun?

      • seafoid
        July 21, 2014, 9:33 am

        Israel is responsible for all civilian deaths.
        Otherwise all holocaust museums should explain that the Jews killed themselves.

  56. gracie fr
    July 21, 2014, 7:29 am

    Harvard’s Sarah Roy weighs in in Boston Globe column…
    “Gaza’s deterioration, however, was not accidental or inadvertent. To the contrary, the devastation of Gaza’s economy (and environment) was deliberate and planned by Israel, imposed through separation and isolation and through a destructive economic blockade, which entered its eighth year last month. The blockade — which has been supported by the United States, the European Union, and Egypt in particular — virtually bans access to markets outside Gaza and confines the overwhelming majority of people to the Strip. This has ended all normal trade upon which Gaza’s tiny economy depends and has disabled the private sector and its capacity to generate jobs, preventing any viable recovery of Gaza’s productive sectors.

    Unemployment in Gaza stands at 40.8 percent, a dramatic increase from 18.7 percent in 2000; however, for those people between 15 and 29 years of age, the unemployment rate is almost 60 percent. Because of this, poverty has increased with almost 80 percent of Gazans made dependent on humanitarian aid to survive although they are able and desperate to work.

    Another way to understand the impact of the Israeli blockade is this: In 2000, UNRWA (the UN agency responsible for Palestine refugees) was feeding 80,000 people in the Gaza Strip; today it feeds over 830,000 people. Yet, UNRWA’s food aid to almost half the population is now under threat as some international donors such as Canada have inexplicably defunded UNRWA or fund at levels that do not meet Gaza’s burgeoning need. Without an increase in financial support to cover a $22 million shortfall, UNRWA may have to eliminate its food distributions by the end of 2014. If this happens there should be no doubt that Palestinians in Gaza will face starvation for the first time in their history, and the violence that will ensue from their deepened agony and abandonment will be calamitous……”
    link to bostonglobe.com

    • seafoid
      July 21, 2014, 9:32 am

      Thanks Gracie. A keeper.
      A reference for the utter evil of the occupation and the system behind it.

    • Citizen
      July 21, 2014, 10:14 am

      @ gracie fr

      The US main media never explains to the American people the context of what’s happening in Gaza; they usually refer to just the latest cycle in endless tribal conflict in the area. Nobody in mainstream media ever tells us public that when Israel took its settlers and IDF out of Gaza, they never really left Gaza because they immediately surrounded Gaza with a blockade, a continuous siege down to this day (with the help of Egypt, services paid for by US taxpayers).

  57. Vikram
    July 21, 2014, 7:30 am

    I have been reading a series of novels on Genghis Khan back in the 12th century. It doesn’t seem that we have made much progress since then, in respect of warfare. With the Israelis massacres are the order of the day. They seem to see Palestinians as non-people and most people, in my experience, are not too interested one way or the other.

    In the modern world, with all it’s distractions, what happens to the Palestinians doesn’t seem to be too important. It’s a sad reflection on the state of humanity !

  58. Daniel Rich
    July 21, 2014, 8:37 am

    What’s Mondoweiss’ battle-strategy in combating these atrocities in a more vigorous way [beside reporting them]?

    Fundraisers, mail lists, JVP, GDP, etc?

  59. Daniel Rich
    July 21, 2014, 9:11 am

    Kerry makes mic gaffe on Gaza

    Be sure to bring a solid barf bag and leave the popcorn where it is at …

  60. ahhiyawa
    July 21, 2014, 9:49 am

    HOW HAMAS WON
    link to foreignaffairs.com

    The more I reflect on this the more I’m becoming convinced the game is up for Israel in Gaza, and that they have suffered a tactical as well as strategic defeat no less serious than what they suffered in Lebanon II.

    The Israelis have withdrawn from the fighting, though they continue with the terror bombing of civilians and hospitals. The full facts that will become known regarding this current IDF SNAFU, may likely prove that Israel is done parading through Gaza as they are done launching flying columns of armor through Lebanon.

  61. Talkback
    July 21, 2014, 10:02 am

    Many days ago, we dropped this Arabic flyer warning residents of Shuja’iya to evacuate. Read the English translation. pic.twitter.com/14REpZqhB3

    — IDF (@IDFSpokesperson) July 20, 2014

    Many decades ago, I wrote “Mein Kampf” warning the Jews in Germany to evacuate.

    — Adolf Hitler

    • Talkback
      July 21, 2014, 10:16 am

      ” People of Earth, your attention, please. This is Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz of the Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council. As you will no doubt be aware, the plans for development of the outlying regions of the Galaxy require the building of a hyperspatial express route through your star system. And regrettably, your planet is one of those scheduled for demolition. The process will take slightly less than two of your Earth minutes. Thank you.

      There’s no point in acting surprised about it. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display at your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth years, so you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to start making a fuss about it now. … What do you mean you’ve never been to Alpha Centauri? Oh, for heaven’s sake, mankind, it’s only four light years away, you know. I’m sorry, but if you can’t be bothered to take an interest in local affairs, that’s your own lookout. Energize the demolition beams.”
      link to en.wikiquote.org

  62. MSeveral
    July 21, 2014, 10:23 am

    It is the first responsibility of a government to protect its citizens. On one hand, Israel is doing a pretty good job fulfilling its responsibility. On the other hand, Hamas has totally abdicated its responsibility. In the years since the last war in Gaza, Hamas has shown it expected another war by constructing tunnels, acquiring rockets, expending its arsenal, and training its military forces. However, during that time, it did nothing that would protect the people it is responsible for in the upcoming conflict. Based on the two previous wars, it could be expected that Israel would bomb Gaza. However, apparently Hamas did not build any bomb shelters. During the bombing of both the UK and Germany during WWII, the respective governments opened up tunnels, such as subways, where they existed. Hamas apparently has not opened up its tunnels to protect the Gaza residents. Hamas apparently never prepared any evacuation plans by working with UNRHA or any NGO to set up safe areas. When warned by Israel that an attack on Sheja’iah was imminent, Hamas apparently failed to take any action to evacuate the residents. Caught between Israeli firepower and Hamas’ abdication of its responsibility to protect, there was a human tragedy in Sheja’iah. I have sadly concluded, that Hamas’ absolute and total failure to fulfill its basic responsibility to protect indicates that it is not a government. Rather, it is a non-state actor, and the terrorist organization that the civilized world has classified it.

    • Castellio
      July 21, 2014, 2:20 pm

      “sadly concluded….”

      Right. Nice of you to keep us informed. We’ll keep your sadness in mind. May I suggest fluoxetine? It’s not only good for sadness, it will help with the underlying obsessive-compulsive disorder that allows you to murder and blame the victims in extremely rapid cycles of recurring behaviour.

      • Pixel
        July 21, 2014, 11:14 pm

        nice one!

    • eljay
      July 21, 2014, 2:46 pm

      >> Hamas apparently has not opened up its tunnels to protect the Gaza residents.

      Every time Israel attacks Gaza, one of the things it does without fail is target the tunnels for demolition. Why on Earth would Hamas want to invite civilians into those tunnels to be more easily massacred by Israel?

      Since you appear to be repeating (almost verbatim) a point made by JustaJester, perhaps you can answer the question I asked him: Does Gaza receive sufficient concrete and other building materials to permit the construction of bomb shelters? Or does it only (barely?) get what it needs to build civilian buildings (dwellings, stores, etc.) and necessary infrastructure?

      (My take: Israel would never agree to provide Gaza with sufficient materials to build bomb shelters. It would be counter-productive.)

      • MSeveral
        July 21, 2014, 3:33 pm

        It appears that Hamas has enough concrete to protect missiles. I guess, the motto of Hamas is “we protect missiles not people.”

      • eljay
        July 21, 2014, 4:45 pm

        >> It appears that Hamas has enough concrete to protect missiles.

        I appears that that is a clear non-answer.

  63. seafoid
    July 21, 2014, 2:29 pm

    Mr cupid stunt

    That is pathetic. Hamas is not a government. Gaza is not a country. It is still occupied. Sheja’ieh was not a human tragedy. It was an IDF operation.

    • tree
      July 21, 2014, 2:38 pm

      Seafoid. Please don’t use gross misogynistic slurs.

      • Sumud
        July 21, 2014, 3:03 pm

        No offense tree, I hope you like this, it’s all done in the best possible taste!

      • tree
        July 21, 2014, 3:26 pm

        Sumud, I know what “Cupid Stunt” means and I know its a play on words with the first letters of the name reversed. And no its not in the “best possible taste”. I don’t see the humor in referring to someone by uttering a hateful slur used to refer to a female body part.

    • MSeveral
      July 21, 2014, 3:50 pm

      I am glad you agree with me. Hamas is not a government. And Gaza is not a country, which I agree with. By occupied, I guess you mean the control of the border by both Israel and Egypt. However, with the anecdotal reports in the media that people in Gaza have been afraid to express complaints about Hamas, it appears that Hamas is the warden for the occupation.

  64. Mooser
    July 21, 2014, 8:31 pm

    “However, with the anecdotal reports in the media that people in Gaza have been afraid to express complaints about Hamas, it appears that Hamas is the warden for the occupation.”

    That should win some sort of award for being on of the weaseliest sentences to ever appear here. Weasels, of course, eat ripe anecdotes.

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