Reprint of Yochanan Gordon’s “When Genocide is Permissible” (Updated)

Israel/Palestine
on 115 Comments

gordon

Earlier today the Times of Israel published the article “When Genocide is Permissible” by Yochanan Gordon. They have since taken it down but we are republishing it here as representative of part of the discourse in the American Jewish community. According to Gordon’s bio at the Times of Israel his father is the founder of The Five Towns Jewish Times in Nassau County, NY which is “committed to showing the best of our Orthodox Jewish community, while reflecting reality.” The article is still posted there.

Update:

The article has been taken off the The Five Towns Jewish Times website with this explanation:

An article that was posted earlier today on our website dealt with the question of genocide in a most irresponsible fashion.  We reject any such notion or discussion associated with even entertaining the possibility of such an unacceptable idea.

The piece should have been rejected out of hand by editors but escaped their proper attention.  We reject such a suggestion unequivocally and apologize for the error.

Gordon has reportedly ended his twitter account, citing security concerns. He has now also issued an apology for the article, but he doesn’t seem to get it:

I wish to express deep regret and beg forgiveness for an article I authored which was posted on 5TJT.com, Times of Israel and was tweeted and shared the world over.

I never intended to call to harm any people although my words may have conveyed that message.

With that said I pray and hope for a quick peaceful end to the hostilities and that all people learn to coexist with each other in creating a better world for us all.

When Genocide is Permissible by Yochanan Gordon

Judging by the numbers of casualties on both sides in this almost one-month old war one would be led to the conclusion that Israel has resorted to disproportionate means in fighting a far less- capable enemy. That is as far as what meets the eye. But, it’s now obvious that the US and the UN are completely out of touch with the nature of this foe and are therefore not qualified to dictate or enforce the rules of this war – because when it comes to terror there is much more than meets the eye.

I wasn’t aware of this, but it seems that the nature of warfare has undergone a major shift over the years. Where wars were usually waged to defeat the opposing side, today it seems – and judging by the number of foul calls it would indicate – that today’s wars are fought to a draw. I mean, whoever heard of a timeout in war? An NBA Basketball game allows six timeouts for each team during the course of a game, but last I checked this is a war! We are at war with an enemy whose charter calls for the annihilation of our people. Nothing, then, can be considered disproportionate when we are fighting for our very right to live.

The sad reality is that Israel gets it, but its hands are being tied by world leaders who over the past six years have insisted they are such good friends with the Jewish state, that they know more regarding its interests than even they do. But there’s going to have to come a time where Israel feels threatened enough where it has no other choice but to defy international warnings – because this is life or death.

Most of the reports coming from Gazan officials and leaders since the start of this operation have been either largely exaggerated or patently false. The truth is, it’s not their fault, falsehood and deceit is part of the very fabric of who they are and that will never change. Still however, despite their propensity to lie, when your enemy tells you that they are bent on your destruction you believe them. Similarly, when Khaled Meshal declares that no physical damage to Gaza will dampen their morale or weaken their resolve – they have to be believed. Our sage Gedalia the son of Achikam was given intelligence that Yishmael Ben Nesanyah was plotting to kill him. However, in his piety or rather naiveté Gedalia dismissed the report as a random act of gossip and paid no attention to it. To this day, the day following Rosh Hashana is commemorated as a fast day in the memory of Gedalia who was killed in cold blood on the second day of Rosh Hashana during the meal. They say the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over. History is there to teach us lessons and the lesson here is that when your enemy swears to destroy you – you take him seriously.

Hamas has stated forthrightly that it idealizes death as much as Israel celebrates life. What other way then is there to deal with an enemy of this nature other than obliterate them completely?

News anchors such as those from CNN, BBC and Al-Jazeera have not missed an opportunity to point out the majority of innocent civilians who have lost their lives as a result of this war. But anyone who lives with rocket launchers installed or terror tunnels burrowed in or around the vicinity of their home cannot be considered an innocent civilian. If you’ll counter, that Hamas has been seen abusing civilians who have attempted to leave their homes in response to Israeli warnings to leave – well then, your beginning to come to terms with the nature of this enemy which should automatically cause the rules of standard warfare to be suspended.

Everyone agrees that Israel has the right to defend itself as well as the right to exercise that right. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon has declared it, Obama and Kerry have clearly stated that no one could be expected to sit idle as thousands of rockets rain down on the heads of its citizens, placing them in clear and present danger. It seems then that the only point of contention is regarding the measure of punishment meted out in this situation.

I will conclude with a question for all the humanitarians out there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu clearly stated at the outset of this incursion that his objective is to restore a sustainable quiet for the citizens of Israel. We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?

115 Responses

  1. just
    August 1, 2014, 1:53 pm

    what has filled this US citizen’s head? Is this ok to say?

    I am more committed than ever to block the stupid legislation that allows Israelis to have a visa waiver (well over 87% support this massacre & genocide! I don’t want them entirely free to come and go without scrutiny!)… there is much more to deal with as well, including US citizens that go to help massacre Palestinian civilians, and hatemongers like Yochanan Gordon promoting and celebrating genocide.

    We also have much arduous work to do with Congress and the entire US government’s support of genocide.

  2. chocopie
    August 1, 2014, 2:05 pm

    Did Mondoweiss change the introduction for this piece, because I could have sworn I read here the name of the company he works for. This guy advocates genocide and he should be fired from his job.

  3. hughsansom
    August 1, 2014, 2:14 pm

    Former Mayor Mike Bloomberg asserted that there is no limit to permissible responses to rocket attacks — no limit. So Bloomberg implicitly rejects the notion that a response can be disproportionate, meaning that he rejects international law (that makes such responses war crimes) and he, by implication, would see no problem with genocide — as long as the victims are Palestinian. Barack Obama’s vile indifference suggests he would acquiesce in such a move. And Chuck Schumer’s undiluted embrace of all Israel attacks that he would do the same as Obama, or worse.

    • traintosiberia
      August 1, 2014, 6:36 pm

      The worst ,the extreme,the most vile always have won the debate in the in the internal dissensions within Israel.
      Herzl was overruled ( regarding another location)
      Jabotinsky hijacked Herzl Zionism and his attitude to expulsion was over ruled by his followers
      Weiss was thrown under the bus by Silver and Weisman was by Ben Guiron in Biltmore (.?) Hotel in 1942.
      Sharett was overruled and dismissed by more hawkish Zionist after Lavon Affair.
      Rabin was killed ( by the deep state)
      Olmert did not fare well.
      There have been other great Jewish thinkers . But their ideas were never allowed to play any fundamental role. The extremism of today wins the debate and then it becomes normal tomorrow . It ceases to be extremism next day. It bevomes new normal.
      Then another set of leaders show up and shape it more towards further extremist views . This cycle of evolution towards more extremism and non cooperation is what typifies and characterizes the Zionism.
      One can’t satisfy the beast . It wants more. It devours more. It is an entitled psychopath. It has another argument in its arsenal. It says ” yesterday they ((Palestine )did not agree to compromise on this issue or accept the position which we the Zionist offered. They lost the battle . Not they have lost the right to seek the previous compromise ,they have no right to the previous offer . ” There is always Yesterday for the Zionst . Yesterday is so morally and legally
      useful to the Hasabara.

      • can of worms
        August 2, 2014, 12:40 am

        “Then another set of leaders show up and shape it more towards further extremist views.”

        Geeez, how can it be otherwise, when all aspects of life in Israel are segregated? When tomorrow’s leaders are necessarily Israeli Jews, who further grow up separately from Palestinians, what should you expect but a spiral of racism, leading to genocide? This is exactly why Zionism is racism.

        Zionism uses segregation and inequality as a way of keeping symbolic and financial capital. Zionism (outside-of-Israel) means the exploitation of a bill of rights at home in order to institute racism and segregationism abroad.

  4. Mooser
    August 1, 2014, 2:14 pm

    I am forced to conclude that by “permissable” they must mean ‘permissable by God, right? I mean, who else do they ask for permission? So, that’s all settled.
    Well, I’m glad He said “yes”. God forbid they should do anything He disapproves of.

    Gosh, I’m a fool, I read it. So basically he’s telling us to get ready for an Israeli nuclear bomb.

    “but last I checked this is a war! We are at war”

    So if the Palestinians are the other side in a “war” I guess there’s nothing they can’t do, huh? Do Zionists know how stupid it is, in every way, to keep calling this a “war” when it’s not, and Israel hasn’t declared war? Maybe somebody ought to explain that to them.

    Ah, Nassau County! I wonder how things are at my alma mamila, North Shore Synagogue?

    • Raksha
      August 1, 2014, 6:33 pm

      I was born in Nassau County – Flushing, to be exact. Just to add insult to injury–the injury being that ANY Jew could have written and published this piece of drecht, however abjectly he apologizes for it later. Is Flushing one of the “five towns”? It was many decades ago that my family moved from Flushing to East Rockaway and then to California, and I haven’t been back since.

    • Patrick
      August 1, 2014, 10:12 pm

      “So basically he’s telling us to get ready for an Israeli nuclear bomb.”

      I bet that many among the Israel uber alles crowd in the U.S. (and elsewhere) who would be really happy if it ever came to this. Not the U.S. government though.

  5. Donald
    August 1, 2014, 2:22 pm

    That attitude is as American as apple pie. The only distinction is the use of the term genocide–people usually refrain from using it to describe their own attitudes because they know “genocide” is a crime, but I know I’ve seen utterly ruthless attitudes on comments after Yahoo articles and such. And I think maybe in the NYT comment sections, but I couldn’t swear to that. It’s hard to keep straight what disgusting things I’ve seen in which venues. But any time someone says it is just part of Arab culture or Islam to be violent or something along those lines, genocidal attitudes are just under the surface.

    • gamal
      August 1, 2014, 2:49 pm

      “but I couldn’t swear to that”

      oh come now Donald, you instinctively know whats right, like our Caliph Abu Bakr Khan, see you on the barricades, assuming we learn how to behave. I feel some fairly reprehensible infractions coming on, but i auto-condemn, if that helps, was Jim Crow not undermined by nine inches of black steel, thrusting into the heart of whiteness, i believe that was the case.

      • Donald
        August 2, 2014, 12:16 am

        Gamal, I’m having a little difficulty understanding that response, perhaps because I’m not as perfect as you. I only aspire to heights I can hardly imagine reaching.
        Enlighten me.

    • can of worms
      August 1, 2014, 3:59 pm

      @Donald. Agree: I mean how many perfectly normative euphemisms have been used, both high and low, to substitute for the unspeakable taboo, ‘Genocide’? Let’s see… “let’s turn Gaza into a parking lot”… “let’s finish the job” (Final Solution)… “flatten Gaza”….”bomb them back to the stone age”… “drugged cockroaches in a bottle”… “Gaza is a graveyard”…etc.
      And, in celebration, “In Gaza there’s no school, no children left there, olé, olé”…

      But no massacres, ethnic cleansings or genocides here….

      • Donald
        August 2, 2014, 12:20 am

        Yeah, exactly. That’s a good way to put it–euphemisms for genocide.

      • Citizen
        August 2, 2014, 9:56 am

        Aw come on, we’re just “mowing the lawn.” And putting them “on a diet” and “in formaldehyde.”

  6. chet
    August 1, 2014, 2:23 pm

    “genocide”, “transfer” (Zio-speak for “ethnic cleansing”) — Yugoslavia redux?

  7. Mooser
    August 1, 2014, 2:27 pm

    Blogger
    Irwin E. Blank
    Irwin E. Blank Irwin was born in New York City and is now retired. He served on the National Administrative Board of B’nai … [More]

    I Refuse
    A Light Unto The Nations by Shellfire
    What? Me Worry???
    Nyah, Nyah, You Missed Me!
    Time To Send Hamas Some Ham-Ass

    1 Samuel 15:18-Samuel said, “Is it not true, though you were little in your own eyes, you were made the head of the tribes of Israel? And the LORD anointed you king over Israel, 18and the LORD sent you on a mission, and said, ‘Go and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are exterminated.’ 19“Why then did you not obey the voice of the LORD, but rushed upon the spoil and did what was evil in the sight of the LORD?”…

    Saul was anointed king of Israel by G-d and given the mission to join the tribes of Israel as one nation and to protect them against their enemies. This has been the primary job of leaders from the beginning of time-to defend their citizens and national rights before any other obligation. For without security, without the power to protect what is basically, the lives of one’s charges and the land that sustains the people, all else is of less than secondary interest or importance. A nation that will not defend itself, in whatever manner that the “king”, or the president or the prime minister is empowered to do, is not a civilization that will be sustainable nor credible.

    There are religious folks that place everything that happens to some esoteric or supernatural dimension, but I, a rather secular man, believe that much of what is in the Hebrew Bible (except for much of the already evidentiary history) as allegorical, and in some manner, presented in order to teach us how to live as a society.

    However, the passage from Samuel is an admonishment on the primary duty of a leader. To me, Samuel represents the people of Israel today, questioning and redressing a grievance to the “king,” or, in this case, our prime minister. One might say that the right to redress of grievances as written in many modern constitutional documents, is one of the fundamental rights of a free people in a republic-the inherent obligation of citizens to make their voices heard when their government either fails to carry out a particular policy or fails to adhere to the voice of the electorate that placed them in position of power.

    G-d might be meant to illustrate that voice of the people-the vox populi. In this case, G-d had demanded that Saul (or the “prime minister”) enter into battle with the Amalekites (Hamas and its savage partners) and destroy them utterly even if that means to the last child, cow and goat. As cruel as this appears, it is a lesson that teaches a nation in terrible danger that it has a legitimate obligation to put a definite end to a substantial threat. The end of such a conflict must make it impossible for that enemy to rebuild and continue to vex one’s nation forever.

    Time and again, throughout Jewish history, we have been told that Amalek will arise in every generation to try to destroy this people. Saul refuses to kill Agag, the king of the Amalekites. In his disobedience, his defying of G-d, is equivalent to our present leadership attempting to fight Hamas while refusing to employ the means to destroy it entirely. By discovering and exploding all the tunnels, or seizing all their arms, is inadequate to assure the utter destruction that is necessary in this war against the Amalekites of today. There must be no quarter given, no “humanitarian ” ceasefires, but a resolute combat without the words and demands of a hateful, hypocritical cabal barking like angry dogs, at our heels.. Because, just as the Amalekites fell upon the rear of the Israelites as they passed through their lands on the way to Canaan, the terrorists will violate every ceasefire, every truce and every politically machined halt to the fighting to retreat and bind their wounds waiting for the next opportunity to attack us.

    We have fought for decades against the terrorist threats around us. In 1956, we went to war to eliminate the “fedayeen” (self sacrificers) of that era whose cross border raids into the Negev Desert, killed dozens of innocent Israelis and made life hell for our southern communities.

    Again, 58 years later, and several bloody campaigns, thousands of rockets launched into Israel, tunnels dug to enable our enemies to kidnap and murder our people, and the myriad attempts of Hamas and its thugs to bring more and greater weapons of death to their arsenals in order to bleed the people of Israel, we find ourselves in battle with 21st century Amalekites because we have failed to listen to the L-rd, we have failed to kill their king, we have failed to, as Samuel lectured Saul, to “utterly destroy” the foe as the L-rd demanded. As the citizens of the State of Israel demand of their “king.”

    Does this mean we, on purpose, kill the innocent? No, that is merely an allegory of Biblical times, an example of the cruelty of ancient warfare. But it does mean that we leave nothing that might sustain a weakened and beaten foe. To destroy Hamas utterly, we cannot stop this war until they unconditionally surrender, even if it means making the war more horrific for the people of Gaza, who are the victims of their own leadership. Just as the Amalekites were the victims of their own king, whom Saul left alive and why today, we fight the modern day Amalekites in every generation.

    It’s time to take heed of the words of the L-rd, it is time to do what the people of Israel demand, it is time to kill Agag.

    Read more: 1 Samuel 15:18 | Irwin E. Blank | Ops & Blogs | The Times of Israel link to blogs.timesofisrael.com

    Before it gets pulled, too! Feel free to truncate I gotta go.

    • Donald
      August 1, 2014, 2:43 pm

      That last part, beginning with “Does the mean we, on purpose, kill the innocent?”,
      which is then followed by a “no” and then by a proposal that Hamas be hit until they unconditionally surrender–that’s the sort of thing I’ve seen in comments elsewhere.

      That’s an American attitude. Not all of us, of course, but a great many Americans grow up hearing defenses of Hiroshima and they carry that logic with them to every war we or one of our allies fight. There’s also this weird logic,where Hiroshima is justified because by some counts the Tokyo firebomb raid was worse. People still get outraged over any questioning of what we did in WWII. I have given up arguing with people about Hiroshima and Nagasaki (thinking about it now because the anniversary is coming up), but one legacy of that action and of WWII civilian bombing in general is that Americans have been taught that you can kill almost any number of civilians and be morally blameless because the enemy is pure evil. And many,not just Jewish Americans, extend this excuse to Israel. Like the good rabbi on Monday that Phil wrote about.

      • crone
        August 1, 2014, 2:48 pm

        I think you’re missing the point here.

        Jews have been the victims of “genocide” ~ and some are advocating the same for Palestinians…

        Americans have never been the victims of “genocide” -

      • Donald
        August 1, 2014, 3:02 pm

        Why is that the point? The point is that a lot of bloody-minded people in America and Israel, Jews and non-Jews, have it in their heads that they can support a military operation guaranteed to slaughter massive numbers of civilians and feel their hearts are pure because the enemy is evil. That’s the point that matters here, since the US supports Israel and Israel is about to add to the already large death toll because they’re the Good Guys and America agrees.

      • Abierno
        August 1, 2014, 3:08 pm

        Just a historical note – when the Japanese began their invasion of China,
        it was on the pretext that the Chinese had captured a Japanese soldier. They then want on to kill millions of people – all in the name of Japanese racial purity. This Israeli action has the same feeling. Do people remember Moishe Feiglin’s (Deputy Speaker of the Knesset) Solution for Gaza?link to israelnationalnews.com Do his proposals fit with the Israeli actions during this war?

      • Annie Robbins
        August 1, 2014, 3:46 pm

        that would depend on which americans you’re considering. native americans certainly were.

      • Antidote
        August 2, 2014, 3:06 pm

        “Americans have never been the victims of “genocide”

        Native Americans = colonists who came over on the Mayflower.

        America: a land without a people for a people without land. There were no “Indians”

      • tombishop
        August 1, 2014, 4:29 pm

        America was founded on the genocide of the Native Americans and the enslavement of Africans. Anyone who has not faced that fact will readily accept it is OK to do it again.

      • just
        August 1, 2014, 4:38 pm

        that’s true.

      • Mooser
        August 1, 2014, 4:51 pm

        Sorry for pasting the entire thing.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 1, 2014, 10:43 pm

        i cleaned it up for you. no prob

      • Mooser
        August 1, 2014, 4:55 pm

        ‘that Hamas be hit until they unconditionally surrender–”

        Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, how can you “unconditionally surrender” whe there’s no war. “War” dignifies what the Israelis are doing in a way they have no right to.

      • eljay
        August 1, 2014, 10:48 pm

        >> To destroy Hamas utterly, we cannot stop this war until they unconditionally surrender …

        1. How can Hamas unconditionally surrender if they have been utterly destroyed?
        2. Are non-Jews permitted to utterly destroy Jews with whom they have a quarrel until they unconditionally surrender?

      • Marnie
        August 2, 2014, 1:58 am

        But it was easier to drop the bomb on the non-white Japanese too now. If Japan had surrendered and Germany had refused, I wonder if Truman would have agreed to drop the bomb on Berlin and I think not. My mother was a WAC and was in Pensacola, Florida from 1944-45 and my father was in the navy with his twin brother on Okinawa. Both were convinced that there could have been no other outcome, that Japan would have continued to fight forever and so to spare american lives (their words), they had to be stopped by whatever means necessary. They were so matter of fact about it too, but I think most Americans were convinced of their moral authority and duty to finish the war and the number of civilians killed could be justified by Japan’s treachery re: Pearl Harbor.

      • Citizen
        August 2, 2014, 10:04 am

        @ Marnie
        So did your parents ever talk about the fire bombing of Dresden?

      • Marnie
        August 2, 2014, 11:55 am

        @Citizen
        What little they did speak about was what I’ve already written. My mother actually came in contact with german POWs who were brought to her base on trains. They rode with the white soldiers and the african american soldiers were in the jim crow cars. Nice, huh?

    • libra
      August 1, 2014, 4:11 pm

      @Mooser quoting Irwin E. Blank

      It’s time to take heed of the words of the L-rd, it is time to do what the people of Israel demand, it is time to kill Agag.

      Now those are the words of a prophet who really does believe in power over morality. Take note, Professor Ellis.

      Sadly for Prophet Blank – could there be a better name for such a moral nullity? – his very words show why the Palestinian moral courage to resist will triumph over Israeli military power. They win simply by not losing, leaving poor Prophet Blank angrily shaking his fist at their very existence.

      Ironically, it’s Prophet Blank and his ilk who turn Hamas’s homemade rockets from virtually useless fireworks into psychological strategic weapons – the “we’re still here” taunt being devastatingly on target no matter where they physically land. No wonder they continue to fire them.

    • RoHa
      August 1, 2014, 9:01 pm

      Served on the board of B’nai Brith, eh. That would make him one of those Jewish community leaders, and we all know you revere them nearly as much as I do.

  8. Qualtrough
    August 1, 2014, 2:38 pm

    Jaw-dropping to see the victims of genocide and their descendants calling for the genocide of others. If they feel so strongly about it why don’t they go to Israel so they can do some of the dirty work themselves?

  9. Jean-Victor_C
    August 1, 2014, 2:47 pm

    Oh! THAT was the question! The answer is NO.

  10. MHughes976
    August 1, 2014, 3:21 pm

    What makes anyone think that victims of injustice would be more likely than others to reject injustice in all circumstances? Suffering and discrimination create a very hard school. The lesson it teaches is less likely to be high-minded enlightenment and generosity, more likely to be ruthless determination to survive.

    • Mooser
      August 1, 2014, 5:03 pm

      “Suffering and discrimination create a very hard school”

      Wait, what you are saying is that all that “suffering and discrimination” (quoted simply to use the same terms, not argumentatively) we have been subject to, and which forms the basis of our claim for a country, might be the very thing which makes it not a good idea for us to have one?
      Oy Gevalt!! Why is life so unfair?.
      (Not this persecution has done anything but make us smarter and tougher you see. If you say it has hurt us, that’s anti-Semitic.)

  11. ayesha
    August 1, 2014, 3:34 pm

    I was wondering isn’t there going to be a small a trip to Gitmo for this guy?

  12. bpm
    August 1, 2014, 3:36 pm

    Isn’t it bad enough they were slaughtered in the gas chambers? Now Israel defiles their memory to defend genocide against a people who had absolutely nothing to do with the Holocaust. Israel is bent on confirming every racist stereotype about Jews. If you are a thinking Jew with a conscience, Israel is your worst enemy.

    • Annie Robbins
      August 1, 2014, 3:55 pm

      Now Israel defiles their memory to defend genocide against a people who had absolutely nothing to do with the Holocaust.

      last night i was discussing what was going on w/gaza with some kids who stopped by (25 or so, a couple, who when i met them about 2 years ago knew nothing of israel/palestine. brought up in a little town, like raves and the grateful dead and hiking. just not political. so i told them some of the basics) and they’d heard about the recent slaughter. and one of them said to me, “you know what i heard recently? some people saying palestinians were responsible for the holocaust” i swear, had i not gotten to them first a couple years ago, they might have believed this garbage.

      anyway, finally they are becoming more interested like this isn’t some sideshow. like it’s important. and they said to me, “we have this jewish friend and she wants to know if there’s any jewish peace groups around she could join.” i guess some of the previously uncurious young crowd are starting to get alarmed. so they told her they had this friend who would know and they’d ask me. i showed them the jewish voice for peace website and they memorized the name, it being fairly easy to recall.

      anyway, just rambling.

      • Sumud
        August 1, 2014, 8:54 pm

        Not rambling – this is how it works, literally person by person, millions upon millions of tiny steps.

        Zionists think they can counter this was hasbara but it is impossible. People know you (ie. us) Annie, they know what sort of person you are, your values, that you have integrity. Do they listen to some troll hasbarat or the person who they know and trust?

        I hardly ever talk abt I/P with my friends or family. If they raise it, yes, for sure. But I hardly ever raise it, yet more and more ppl see with their own eyes and that is more powerful than anything.

        A few years ago I asked my mum what she knew about the situation and she said she knew that a Israel was doing some very bad things. My Ma is in her 60s, completely uninterested in politics and her only source if news is the evening broadcast on TV. Then I knew that Israel’s time was almost up.

      • just
        August 1, 2014, 9:05 pm

        I have people in my life that cut off conversations I’m having with others who are interested in P/I……they just don’t want to hear or know about it. Much more fun to talk about anything else (except climate change or ‘things we can’t change’!

        I guess they like it that way. It’s very much like when I was against the Iraq and the Afghan wars– it requires self- examination and accountability, much too icky for most. Lots of folks don’t want to look at any of their responsibility for our actions, much less at pictures/stories of murdered babies,etc. It’s not jolly, nor do they find it ‘relevant’ to their lives.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 1, 2014, 10:57 pm

        yeah just, It’s not jolly.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 1, 2014, 10:56 pm

        sumud, little by little. interestingly this couple ended up living here at my home awhile back for 6 months. so they knew what i did and frankly they were astounded when they heard about some of the stuff. but they were skeptical and they had this friend, a hippie kid who had been to israel and completely drunk the koolaide. but i didn’t get into long discussions with them. i could tell the girl wasn’t into political discussion. but she was into these teenage novels. she just absorbed these saga books like the hunger games. so i gave her the almond tree and she completely got sucked in. it was so up her alley. that book turned her, completely. but she’s still not what one would call an activist at all. yoga, health food, knitting and canning, back to the land stuff. and her boyfriend read the book and he got hooked too. but still they don’t read the news. but they were primed so to speak. so this time when israel invaded it pierced thru into their world somehow, in real time. i think they get it. whereas i was almost in my 50’s before i saw anything really. just didn’t enter into my reality til after iraq.

        but once you see it you can’t go back. so yeah, little by little…tiny steps for some people.

      • just
        August 1, 2014, 11:29 pm

        Annie, you are a most wonderful person.

        I am so glad to have met you.

      • Sumud
        August 2, 2014, 7:13 pm

        It wasn’t until Cast Lead for me Annie.

        I was out in the streets in 2002/3 trying to prevent a new attack on Iraq, I knew that it was all a fraud like many of us. But actually, it wasn’t until I spent a few years working in the ME in the mid-late 2000s that I fully understood the monumental scale of islamophobic propaganda that we’d all been subjected to in the west. Then I decided I had to look at Palestine, because whatever I knew about it from the MSM media was probably wrong.

        Boy, what a shock I had. What a shock.

      • sandhillexit
        August 3, 2014, 8:57 am

        I had some friends, good people. They really didn’t want their daughter to take up with a non-Jewish boy so they wisked the two teen-aged girls to Israel for a month-long vacation. They loved the history, the archaeology etc etc. However, they stayed long enough to catch up with old friends, relatives and acquaintances. They were shocked, shaken really. The weather is like California, the social attitudes not-so-much.

        People with post-tramatic stress disorder + nuclear and chemical weapons in a giant Zimbardo experiment.

    • Raksha
      August 1, 2014, 6:53 pm

      Israel is bent on confirming every racist stereotype about Jews. If you are a thinking Jew with a conscience, Israel is your worst enemy.

      I found the OP, the Yochanan Gordon article, on the Occupy Judaism page on Facebook and reposted it to my own page. In the short but intense debate on my page that followed, I said to a friend: “You think it WASN’T on StormFront five minutes after the Times of Israel posted it? Don’t kid yourself.”

      –Linda

  13. ToivoS
    August 1, 2014, 3:41 pm

    It must be very difficult for the editors of Jewish publications to maintain written ( in English of all things!) discipline among their activists writers. After all polling shows that 20 to 30% of Israelis support the genocide option for the Palestinian demographic ‘problem’. If that many think genocide, then it should be expected that a once in awhile they just might slip up and write it down.

    Israel’s dilemma. It is so difficult to live a lie because one has to be on constant guard against the truth slipping out while the lies keep changing.

  14. TdBerg
    August 1, 2014, 3:47 pm

    Shockingly, he actually tried to defend his position as moral before shutting down his twitter. link to twitter.com

  15. ayesha
    August 1, 2014, 3:51 pm

    as a kid, when we were taught Islam, we were told that god sent prophets to the tribes and people who indulged the worst excesses and were morally bankrupt- now i know why god chose some people (jewish and arabian) more than others! Don’t think it made any difference?

  16. Walid
    August 1, 2014, 4:05 pm

    Ayesha, some of those Arabs and Jews chosen were actually corrupt to begin with.

  17. tombishop
    August 1, 2014, 4:38 pm

    Democracy Now! had an excellent two-part compelling interview this week with Henry Siegman, a Jewish leader who has not lost his way in the moral swamp so many are in.

    link to democracynow.org

    link to democracynow.org

    • Annie Robbins
      August 1, 2014, 4:46 pm

      i love that interview tom. phil featured it along with some other articles yesterday. link to mondoweiss.net

      • tombishop
        August 1, 2014, 9:08 pm

        Thanks Annie. I missed that. But I think it’s good to have Henry Siegman as a counter post to Yochanan Gordon. Their two positions show what kind of world people are going to have to decide that they want to have.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 1, 2014, 11:00 pm

        absolutely tom

      • Citizen
        August 2, 2014, 10:13 am

        @ tombishop
        For sure.

    • RoHa
      August 1, 2014, 8:57 pm

      “a Jewish leader who has not lost his way in the moral swamp so many are in.”

      Who found his way out of the moral swamp. Eventually.

  18. Kay24
    August 1, 2014, 5:08 pm

    They are really a blood thirsty lot, and considering their own history one cannot imagine there are terrorists like this who write for newspapers, and sadly he writes knowing there are others who agree, and accept his suggestion.

    Now imagine an Iranian journalists writing the same filth about Israeli people, and how the howls of outrage and the whining would have flooded our media.

    We are sending our hard earned money to arm these racists and make sure they are comfortable enough to keep the occupation going, and write such garbage.

  19. mhuizenga
    August 1, 2014, 5:09 pm

    When I first saw this on twitter I thought Wow- I never thought I would see the words “genocide” and “permissible” in the same sentence in the interrogative form in this day and age, let alone in an article where the implication is that the answer to the question is affirmative, and in an Israeli blog too! But then after I thought about it again, I realized that it accurately reflects the attitude of some of the extremists running this horror show, just absent the “newspeak.” i.e. the WSJ article earlier this week.

    And now the president seems to be washing his hands about doing anything at all about it, and just when there was progress in the MSM in bringing the issue to light. I noticed their coverage has been less sympathetic (a lot) since the kidnapping/capture story broke. My fear is we may not have seen the worst yet. And what are people who think of this as a humanitarian catastrophe supposed to do if the POTUS has basically said “We can’t fix everything.”?

    • Annie Robbins
      August 1, 2014, 11:06 pm

      mhuizenga, did you see this: link to mondoweiss.net

      completely freaky. and this represents a lot of teens. i think it’s permeated the culture to a degree we cannot fully comprehend. just the fact this got picked up by the times of israel. i mean,how clueless can you be to imagine this is acceptable speech. the editors? outrageous.

      • mhuizenga
        August 1, 2014, 11:16 pm

        I watch mondo every day. I just don’t comment. I feel afraid and deflated for my gaza friends,who I know only from college, especially after the vox article about why the US doesn’t do anything. It’s making me crazy. I need to do something

      • just
        August 2, 2014, 9:25 am

        Welcome, mhuizenga.

      • Citizen
        August 2, 2014, 10:20 am

        @ mhuizenga
        You can comment more here, and spread word via FB & Twitter, and contact government officials?

  20. Pixel
    August 1, 2014, 5:51 pm

    .
    the deafening sound of silence

    [youtube link to youtube.com

    • Kay24
      August 1, 2014, 7:09 pm

      The similarities are eerily similar. It seems that they are inflicting the same pain they endured, and punishing the Palestinians for what was done to them.
      It is unbelievable that these pictures alone tell the story.

    • ritzl
      August 1, 2014, 7:16 pm

      Compelling images, Pixel. I don’t usually go for Nazi comparisons, but within the context of this article it’s totally apt.

    • Qualtrough
      August 2, 2014, 12:54 am

      Thanks for sharing that. Rather than silence, I think it would be more effective if there was a soundtrack of Zionists fulminating about comparisons of Zionism with the Nazis, spouting their “Purity of Arms’ nonsense, etc. in the background.

    • Citizen
      August 2, 2014, 10:33 am

      MSNBC’s Mika B–tongue slippage on her real feelings reporting on Gaza in corporate controlled media news: link to youtube.com

  21. piotr
    August 1, 2014, 6:01 pm

    The war progresses from fatwas to fashlas (search richardsilvestein.org for explanation). Yocharam Gordon is a private figure, and little late. Those are the words of World Bnei Akiva Secretary-General Rabbi Noam Perel:

    “An entire nation and thousands of years of history demand revenge. The government of Israel is gathering for a revenge meeting that isn’t a grief meeting. The landlord has gone mad at the sight of his sons’ bodies. A government that turns the army of searchers to an army of avengers, an army that will not stop at 300 Philistine foreskins. The disgrace will be paid for with the blood of the enemy, not with our tears,”

    There were some motions to remove him from his position, from the British chapter, and American chapter asked for explanations (and was satisfied with the answer). And this is not a minor organization.

  22. droog
    August 1, 2014, 6:31 pm

    When Genocide is Permissible, evil is truly banal.

  23. amigo
    August 1, 2014, 6:53 pm

    ” The truth is, it’s not their fault, falsehood and deceit is part of the very fabric of who they are and that will never change. ”

    I stopped reading this vile racist bigot after that diatribe above.

    Can you imagine this mad man with power.

    After he had solved the “Palestinian Question “, who is next??.

    • Annie Robbins
      August 1, 2014, 11:08 pm

      After he had solved the “Palestinian Question “, who is next??.

      the rest of the arab /muslim world i suppose. i mean adelson advocated nuking iran. wtf.

      • Marnie
        August 2, 2014, 1:43 am

        That’s what it’s like, there’s always the “next” population to deal with. Death’s work is never done.

  24. 911maxx
    August 1, 2014, 7:02 pm

    piotr, it’s richardsilverstein.com

  25. Shingo
    August 1, 2014, 7:41 pm

    This gives a real insight into the true ideology and racism built into Zionists. That genocide in indeed permissible, but it’s not really genocide if it’s carried out against Arabs.

  26. uh...clem
    August 1, 2014, 8:55 pm

    maybe genocide is not permissible but “worth it” anyhow. this was the US secretary of state’s reply when she was asked about the deaths of a half-million children in iraq.

  27. RoHa
    August 1, 2014, 8:56 pm

    ” whoever heard of a timeout in war? ”

    Er … I have. It’s called a “truce” and used to be quite common.

  28. Sumud
    August 1, 2014, 9:01 pm

    Mondoweiss Editors: this article begs to be expanded upon placing it in the wider context of incitement by Israel’s political and religious leaders.

    The author is not an isolated crackpot.

    These calls for genocide coming thick and fast now, and after nearly a decade of quiet for Israelis. Meanwhile 5000+ Palestinians have been killed in Gaza in the same period with cries for more.

    It’s really happening folks. The descendants of Holocaust survivors.

    • Annie Robbins
      August 1, 2014, 11:11 pm

      The descendants of Holocaust survivors.

      and all those holocaust museums all over the country/world. try explaining it’s only about jews, not a lesson on genocide. that would be a sick neat trick.

      • Sumud
        August 2, 2014, 7:04 pm

        I was thinking of those museums too Annie, as I wrote above.

        Yad Vashem as an instruction manual, not a cautionary tale. It’s just … an abomination. A terrible, terrible betrayal of the 6 million.

  29. Inanna
    August 1, 2014, 9:06 pm

    Thank you Mondoweiss for your great work during this time. It’s greatly appreciated.

    • Mooser
      August 1, 2014, 10:05 pm

      They’ve done a great job. Risen to meet the challenge. And it’s not over yet.

      • Citizen
        August 2, 2014, 10:39 am

        @ Mooser
        You do too. I’m glad you’ve decided to bring your antlers back here, even though you’ve stabbed me in the eye a few times. I see you just stabbed Phil W re his two-step approach comment on another thread here. Your response was oblique, but raised interesting questions.

  30. crone
    August 1, 2014, 11:28 pm

    VIDEO: Israel’s Violence Builds Solidarity For Gaza

    The first part is a take down of a Bill Maher tweet – the interesting part comes after that – an interview with young student from LA – Kash Nikazmrad, – thesis – Israel is a ‘proxy’ state

    I found this to be thought-provoking, worth chewing on (proxy state)

  31. Qualtrough
    August 2, 2014, 12:57 am

    When his article is translated into German the title should be “Die Endlösung”

  32. Shingo
    August 2, 2014, 1:42 am

    This has really gone viral.

    Another PR showpiece for Zionist sadism.

  33. iResistDe4iAm
    August 2, 2014, 1:55 am

    15 May 2014: Two Palestinian teenagers are murdered in cold blood in the West Bank by suspected Israeli snipers.
    – No arrests or charges in spite of security camera and news footage implicating Israeli forces.

    12 June 2014: Three Israeli teenagers are kidnapped in the West Bank by suspected Palestinian militants.
    – Israel starts a massive collective punishment rampage against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and bombing raids on the besieged Gaza Strip.
    – On 30 June, the 3 missing Israeli teenagers are found dead, and 2 days later a Palestinian teenager is burned alive by Jewish Israelis.
    – On 8 July, after 26 days of non-stop collective punishment, Israel launches a full scale invasion of Gaza (the third in 5 years).

    Q: If Israel can arrest 3 alleged Jewish Israeli terrorists WITHOUT demolishing their family homes, killing over 1600+ other Israelis, wounding 8600 others, detaining hundreds more, ransacking 1000+ and bombing 9000+ Jewish settler homes while relentlessly bombing settlement blocs from the air, land and sea, …then why can’t it arrest 2 alleged Palestinian terrorists the same way?

    A: Israeli apartheid demands collective punishment.
    Israeli fascism demands “death to the Arabs”.
    Israeli supremacism demands “a thousand non-Jewish lives” for “a Jew’s fingernail”.

    Evidence of Israeli fascism will be ignored in the west until Israeli fascists start lynching Jewish Israelis who support Palestinians.

    • Marnie
      August 3, 2014, 12:08 am

      “Suffering and discrimination create a very hard school” is that right Mr. Gordon?
      Let’s not go there shall we? You want to talk about suffering, talk about the estimated 10 million africans who died during the second passage. And the thousands lynched in america from the period of reconstruction to about 1965. And the continued injustice served to people of color. (Barack Obama being the 1st black president, so what!)
      Jews have suffered, no argument, but change your name and have some cosmetic surgery and you fit right in to WASP world. You can’t change your color. People of color have suffered at the hands of white folks for hundreds and hundreds of years. Yet, there hasn’t been a war declared on white people, no matter what the tea party says.
      Do you want to even talk about women are treated in the world? I’m not necessarily talking about 3rd world countries either, but being a woman is rough, many places are hell. Don’t talk to me about Eve.
      And don’t talk about how the Jews have suffered, as if they have the patent. It’s not like we don’t know, there’s books, film, documentaries, required courses in schools, holocaust museums where there was no holocaust (go figure), and to use your suffering as a segue to legitimize the suffering you inflict on others is sinful and disgusting. Good luck explaining that to God.

  34. Marnie
    August 2, 2014, 2:06 am

    Nice apology, did not say he was sorry for what he wrote and believes, only the deep regret that he never realized there would be such a negative reaction to it, he’d look stupid and have to retract his message.
    “With that said I pray and hope for a quick peaceful end to the hostilities and that all people learn to coexist with each other in creating a better world for us all.” LIAR.

  35. Taxi
    August 2, 2014, 2:12 am

    If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?

    Looks like the dastardly dude is hiding his true belief behind the question mark at the end of his last sentence.

    Israel is f*cked forever. All the more reason to dismantle the genocidal zionist regime in the holy land.

  36. Pixel
    August 2, 2014, 3:22 am

    Please forgive me if I missed comments on this somewhere here on MW but I found the following profoundly disturbing:

    Elie Wiesel Condemns Hamas for Using Children as Human Shields, Calls on Gazans to Reject Hamas’s Child Sacrifice

    • fingrinn
      August 2, 2014, 4:58 am

      It upsets me greatly when a person of noble esteem deceives through either intellectual dishonesty or blind ignorance. Neither acceptable. I guess the International Rights of Children’s report condemning Israel for using Palestinians as human shields is Just Antisemitism in his eyes. Irreverent to the “Debate” the sad thing is people still believe it as Gospel. Maybe the way to peace is the Education and the truth will set the Middle East free.

    • can of worms
      August 2, 2014, 5:49 am

      It’s pure ziokitsch, just Pamela Geller with veneer. For pete’s sake he’s a fund raiser for illegal settlements in Al Quds/Occupied East Jerusalem. He is or was the head of Ir David, in Silwan, what could be more grotesque. Some 84% of children in Al Quds are living under the poverty line.
      (link to statistics: link to acri.org.il)

      …Meanwhile, according to the University of California’s Journal of Palestine Studies, “the most respected English language journal devoted to the Arab-Israeli conflict, Israel’s stranglehold over Gaza has been designed to make ‘Palestinian access to the Marine-1 and Marine-2 gas wells impossible.’ Israel’s long-term goal ‘besides preventing the Palestinians from exploiting their own resources, is to integrate the gas fields off Gaza into the adjacent Israeli offshore installations.’
      link to revolution-news.com

  37. wes
    August 2, 2014, 4:44 am

    I find the whole holocaust comparison sad.this is 2014 not 1945 most israelis are not holocaust survivors especially those serving in the idf.
    They are not fighting germans but arabs who want to wipe them out.the one,s making the connection are trying to apply psychlogical pressure on jews worldwide.
    what bullsh.it……..like holding a cross up to count dracula.
    America,s military industry is making millions of dollars off this conflict,while vilifying israel for killing it,s enemies….
    no wonder the cease fires never lasts …not good for business
    i wonder who is supplying hamas inc. with its weaponary.

    • Shingo
      August 2, 2014, 4:52 pm

      They are not fighting germans but arabs who want to wipe them out.the one,s making the connection are trying to apply psychlogical pressure on jews worldwide.

      Yawn what psychological pressure? The only psychological pressure Jews are experiencing is that they are being forces to chose between human values and gratuitous Israeli sadism.

      America,s military industry is making millions of dollars off this conflict,while vilifying israel for killing it,s enemies….

      Israel has been making billions from the occupation while vilifying Palestine for wanting their land back.

  38. eGuard
    August 2, 2014, 7:24 am

    Yochanan is not a bright thinker even. His one but last paragraph is about the “right to defend itself”. Then he ends with this sentence: … point of contention is regarding the measure of punishment meted out in this situation.

    Punishment? Punishment as a defense?

  39. Donald
    August 2, 2014, 8:38 am

    Someone named Barry Lando wrote a fictitious memo by someone in the IDF proposing a policy of ethnic cleansing in Gaza. At first I thought he was using this gimmick to say what he wished Israel would do, but if you read it you can see he really means it as criticism of Israel’s past and present policies and he probably thinks this is what the Israelis would like to do now if they could.

    At the moment, 2 of the 3 commenters below the post think it is a good idea. The third probably does as well, but it’s not quite as clear.

    link

  40. DICKERSON3870
    August 2, 2014, 8:51 am

    RE: “Reprint of Yochanan Gordon’s “When Genocide is Permissible” (Updated)

    MY COMMENT: I have noticed that something about Operation Leading Edge seems to have made it quite fashionable for Israel’s supporters to cavalierly call for the genocide of the Palestinians.* I don’t recall having seen this phenomenon back during either “Cast Lead” or “Pillar of Defense”.

    * A COMMENT AT POLITICO IN SUPPORT OF THE IDF PERPETRATING A GENOCIDE IN GAZA:

    Jack Jackson • a day ago
    I don’t care if Israeli operations are pinpoint or not. Don’t stop until the vermin have been exterminated
    • Reply•Share ›
    Avatar
    dickerson3870 Jack Jackson • a day ago
    RE: “Don’t stop until the vermin have been exterminated” ~ Jack Jackson

    MY COMMENT: Exterminated? Really? Would you approve of the IDF locking all Gazans (Muslim, Christian and otherwise) into as few buildings as possible, and then using Zyclon B to gas those buildings?

    Would you approve of the IDF using the same tactics to effectuate a genocide of the Palestinians in the West Bank? Christians as well as Muslims? What about the Bedouins? And the Druze?

    Would you approve of the IDF using the same or similar tactics to effectuate a genocide of the Palestinians in Israel proper (i.e., within the green line)?

    Additionally, please tell us a little about yourself, Mr. Jackson. For instance, are you a devotee of the late Rabbi Meir Kahane. Are you a member of the JDL/JDO? Or, are you perhaps a member of John Hagee’s Christians United for Israel (CUFI)? Also, would you be willing to participate in a study of how character traits unique to psychopaths manifest themselves on the internet. I certainly hope so, because you would clearly be a highly prized test subject.

    Lastly, thank you, Jack Jackson, for enlightening us with you fascinating ‘world view’ (a/k/a, worldview)!

    SOURCE – link to politico.com

    • Mazal
      August 2, 2014, 12:27 pm

      For sure there is a rage in the Jewish community against the world’s apparent lack of willingness to deal with Hamas and leaving it to Israel to clean the dirt.
      I have seen the occasional talk about ‘wiping out’ Gaza, but it is your manipulation to turn these occasional misplaced frustrations into a portrayal of the general desire of Jews and Israelis. If Hamas & friends stop attacking Israel and the oil-rich Arab States pump in money for economic development (and not for weapons), Gaza civilians will have jobs, food and hopefully freedom of expression and travel. Israel wants nothing more than lifting the blockade, but never again will Israelis or Jews be naive victims.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 2, 2014, 7:13 pm

        Israel wants nothing more than lifting the blockade

        unreal

      • adele
        August 2, 2014, 7:29 pm

        some will never get it Annie. perpetual darkness of the soul and heart. I can’t help but wonder at the irony that people such as Mazal can say such inhumane, surreal nonsense and yet the onus is put on the the Palestinians to prove their humanity to the world.

      • Shingo
        August 2, 2014, 7:19 pm

        For sure there is a rage in the Jewish community against the world’s apparent lack of willingness to deal with Hamas and leaving it to Israel to clean the dirt.

        The racist bigot introduces themselves by referring to Palestinians as dirt. Charming.

        I have seen the occasional talk about ‘wiping out’ Gaza, but it is your manipulation to turn these occasional misplaced frustrations into a portrayal of the general desire of Jews and Israelis.

        They are anything but occasional. Ayelet Shaked of the Jewish Home party, which is in Netanyahu’s ruling coalition, issued a call for genocide of the Palestinian people on June 30th. She declared that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy. And she justifies their destruction, including, quote, “its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.” And she said that Israel would be justified to slaughter Palestinian mothers because they give birth to little snakes.

        She got something like 5,000 likes for that statement on Facebook.

        If Hamas & friends stop attacking Israel and the oil-rich Arab States pump in money for economic development (and not for weapons), Gaza civilians will have jobs, food and hopefully freedom of expression and travel

        Rubbish. Israel is the aggressor who keeps violating ceasefires to “mow the land”. The last time an oil-rich Arab States pump in money for economic development, the US cracked down on them.

        In fact, Israel’s own internal documents reveals that the block has nothing to do with rockets, but is a program of economic warfare.

        Israeli document: Gaza blockade isn’t about security
        link to mcclatchydc.com

        The last thing Israel wants is a viable and thriving Gaza. They much prefer to maintain a the world’s biggest concentration camp

      • Donald
        August 2, 2014, 7:52 pm

        “The racist bigot introduces themselves by referring to Palestinians as dirt. ”

        You should thank him Shingo. I find it helpful when someone signals so plainly right at the start that you don’t have to take them seriously.

      • Shingo
        August 2, 2014, 7:55 pm

        I find it helpful when someone signals so plainly right at the start that you don’t have to take them seriously.

        I agree Donald, unlike MY1, who has tried to keep their true face hidden.

        On the other hand, this looks to me like another drive by troll who won’t be showing up again.

      • eljay
        August 2, 2014, 8:10 pm

        >> Mazaleee: For sure there is a rage in the Jewish community against the world’s apparent lack of willingness to deal with Hamas …

        Just think how much rage there is in the world over the oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State’s” lack of willingness to:
        – halt its 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction, torture and murder;
        – honour its obligations under international law;
        – accept responsibility and accountability for its past and ON-GOING (war) crimes; and
        – enter into sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace.

        >> … never again will Israelis or Jews be naive victims.

        So…you want them to be informed victims? Or do you prefer they be the victimizers?

        Anyway, no-one – not even Israelis and Jews – should ever be victims. The correct response to injustice against anyone – even Israelis and Jews – is justice and accountability. No-one – not even Israelis or Jews – is entitled to a supremacist state.

      • Marnie
        August 3, 2014, 7:28 am

        Oh give me a break – “never again” till the kingdom comes. The Palestinians are not responsible for the holocaust. period. However, the creation of the state of israel caused the Nakhba , end of story. “If Hamas & friends stop attacking Israel and the oil-rich Arab States pump in money for economic development (and not for weapons), Gaza civilians will have jobs, food and hopefully freedom of expression and travel. Israel wants nothing more than lifting the blockade, but never again will Israelis or Jews be naive victims.” Really? GoI has done nothing but lie and change the rules for playing the game, why? Because they don’t want peace they want every square inch of territory and will not q

      • Marnie
        August 3, 2014, 7:43 am

        “If Hamas & friends stop attacking Israel and the oil-rich Arab States pump in money for economic development (and not for weapons), Gaza civilians will have jobs, food and hopefully freedom of expression and travel. Israel wants nothing more than lifting the blockade, but never again will Israelis or Jews be naive victims.”

        What a pile of shit. Is there any chance, after 70 years, that you’ll quit playing the victim? You can’t fight the nazis because been there, done that. Why are you content to make a people who had nothing to do with your relative’s demise, the victims that your relatives were? People better than you actually were victims and I’m sure would cringe with disgust at what you propose and expound in their name. The Palestinians did not cause or have any hand in the holocaust, but the creation of the “state of israel” caused a holocaust for them. The state of israel does not now and never has wanted peace, because they want every square inch of territory and don’t give a care how they get it. “There is a rage in the Jewish community in the world?” So that’s the excuse you’re going to try to use, now you’re going to blame the rest of the world for not doing you’re murdering for you? You actually have to get your hands dirty? Where in the world do you get your sense of entitlement?

      • Marnie
        August 3, 2014, 8:55 am

        Oh and “Gaza civilians will have jobs, food and hopefully freedom of expression and travel.” (as long as they obey our every command, don’t look us in the eye when we speak to them, don’t try to use the same toilet or drink from the same fountain, etc.) They’ll have jobs and food and hopefully freedom of expression and travel”. The arrogance you expressed is infuriating to me; I can’t even imagine the rage a Palestinian would feel. You are no one’s master.

  41. traintosiberia
    August 2, 2014, 12:23 pm

    Genocide is fine. Sending messages clarifying the reasons and offerring one additional is also fine
    link to independent.co.uk. Killing is in retaliation to canceling the concert.
    Didn’t Nero used to do that? BTW ,Neros wife was a Judaizing factor in Roman culture .
    Israeli children scrawled picture and messages on the rockets that rained down Lebanaon and Gaza in 2006 .

    I think I am remembering correct . It was a picture of a rocket in 1991 with slogan -Moses to Saddam . It was in Times magazine .

  42. gnarlylove
    August 2, 2014, 2:39 pm

    Yochanan Gordon alleges the commonality of “the right to defend” is accepted by all parties. True. But does the right to defend imply the right to use force? No. Certainly not in this case. Chomsky says just as the American colonists knew how to find security (by leaving natives and their lands alone i.e. not colonizing) so too the Israel government knows how to gain security, namely lift the siege and forfeit any attempts at expansion and control of the West Bank and Gaza. But this won’t happen because Israel is not aiming for peace. It is aiming for expansion over security and what we are witnessing is utterly predictable.

  43. kma
    August 2, 2014, 3:29 pm

    wow. it’s not just a defense of genocide, it’s an honest admission that the goal of Israel’s government is NOT wrecking tunnels (as we already know it isn’t) or any of the other previously stated objectives, but rather actual genocide.

    I have seen idiot arguments online about whether you can call the massacre of 1500 people “genocide”. people seem hung up on the running total, as if it is over every time another one is killed.

    it may not be completed, but it is an ongoing genocide.
    it truly is genocide, and
    it is openly admittedly the goal.

    it’s also sickening that the author whines that Israel’s allies are holding it back so that it is only a slow genocide. wow.

  44. just
    August 2, 2014, 5:20 pm

    I don’t think that this lousy guy is really sorry:

    Yochanan Gordon @YochananGordon
    Disappointed in Times Of Israel for caving to pressure, deleting my article “When Genocide Is Permissable.” PDF copy link to dropbox.com

    link to haaretz.com

  45. MHughes976
    August 2, 2014, 5:27 pm

    He’s certainly not sorry. He’s just saying that he doesn’t in any absolute sense want anyone to die. He just wants the Palestinians to know that Israel has the right to exterminate them if they continue to make trouble. That’s all.

  46. kma
    August 2, 2014, 5:37 pm

    no, he’s clearly not sorry.
    also, the editors did not accidentally let it “escape” their “proper attention” – it had “genocide” in the title!

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