Netanyahu appoints Ayelet Shaked—who called for genocide of Palestinians—as Justice Minister in new government

Israel/Palestine
on 165 Comments
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided to appoint Ayelet Shaked as justice minister in his fourth government. Shaked is a Member of Knesset (MK) representing the far-right HaBayit HaYehudi (“Jewish Home”) party. She is known for her extreme, ultranationalist views.

During Israel’s summer 2014 attack on Gaza, MK Shaked essentially called for the genocide of Palestinians. In a Facebook post on July 1—a day before Israeli extremists kidnapped Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir and burned him alive—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

Her post consisted of an excerpt from an article by Uri Elitzur, the late right-wing journalist and leader of the Israeli settler movement, which seeks to colonize Palestinian land in contravention of international law. Elitzur also served as a speechwriter and advisor to Netanyahu.

Shaked later deleted the status, which garnered 1,000s of likes and shares, yet not before it was archived. The following is a translation of her post (courtesy of Dena Shunra):

The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy? Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

These are not her original words, and there is a subtle difference between copying and pasting another person’s words and saying them yourself, but Shaked’s post was clearly an endorsement of what Elitzur wrote. In her status, Shaked prefaced the lengthy quote writing “This is an article by the late Uri Elitzur, which was written 12 years ago, but remained unpublished. It is as relevant today as it was at the time.” By insisting that the passage “is as relevant today as it was at the time,” Shaked is explicitly endorsing Elitzur’s call for war against “the entire Palestinian people,” “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

A week later, on July 7, Shaked again quoted the following passage on her Facebook page:

Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.

These remarks led Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to compare MK Shaked to Hitler. “If these words had been said by a Palestinian, the whole world would have denounced it,” he remarked.Journalist Mira Bar-Hillel called the statements “the reason why I am on the brink of burning my Israeli passport.”

Shaked has also adamantly opposed signing any peace deals with Palestinians based on the pre-1967 borders, claiming that such a deal would constitute “national suicide.” Netanyahu was re-elected on the promise that there would never be a Palestinian state.

The lawmaker has furthermore called for annexing parts of the West Bank, which have been under illegal Israeli military occupation since 1967.

Haaretz published a piece on May 11 promising to detail what “Israel’s new justice minister really think about Arabs.” Haaretz confirms that the above translation of Shaked’s Facebook post “was, indeed, very accurate” and recalls past incidents in which Shaked made her anti-Arab views well known:

–In a Channel 2 interview program broadcast in January 2012, she was asked the following question: “When your husband the pilot, when he’s up in the air, do you hope he’ll be pounding the Arabs hard with bombs?” Shaked responded first with a laugh and then said, “Yes.”

–While she was running My Israel, Shaked learned that Bank Leumi was promoting the sale of a real estate company in Jerusalem to a consortium that included a Palestinian investor. Here’s how she described what ensued in an interview with Haaretz in April 2011, “In order to prevent the sale of the neighborhood to Arab hands, all members of the group [My Israel] were instructed to call senior executives at the bank and protest, and those with accounts at Bank Leumi were instructed to call their branch managers and notify them of their desire to leave the bank.” The campaign ultimately paid off.

Naftali Bennett, the leader of the HaBayit HaYehudi party of which Shaked is a prominent member, has himself drawn criticism for his similarly extreme, far-right views. In 2013, Bennett, as Minister of the Economy, declared “I have killed lots of Arabs in my life—and there is no problem with that.”

Bennett has also defended his role as company commander in the April 1996 Qana massacre, in which the Israeli military killed 106 Lebanese civilians and injured 116 Lebanese civilians and four UN workers.

The Most Right-Wing Government in Israeli History

Bennett plays an important role in Netanyahu’s coalition government. He pressured the prime minister to appoint Shaked as justice minister. Netanyahu needed a majority of seats in the 120-member Knesset in order to form a government. Bennett refused to have HaBayit HaYehudi—which had the extra eight seats needed, beyond the 53 Bibi had already established, for a majority—join unless Shaked was given the justice ministry position. Netanyahu conceded, on the conditions that she does not appoint rabbinical judges and does not head the committee overseeing the nomination of new judges.

Extreme-right leader Avigdor Lieberman, the former Israeli foreign minister who called for the beheading of disloyal Palestinians, unexpectedly announced that his Yisrael Beiteinu party, which has six MKs, would refuse to join the new government. Lieberman argued the coalition is not right-wing enough, as he believed it will not pass the so-called “nationality law,” officially defining citizenship based on Jewish ethno-religious heritage—thus turning non-Jewish Israelis into official, de jure second-class citizens—or that it will not go all out to destroy the elected Hamas government of Gaza. Netanyahu thus gave into Bennett’s demands in order to ensure the majority.

With HaBayit HaYehudi, Netanyahu’s coalition has 61 seats, a slight majority. His ruling right-wing Likud party has 30; the right-wing Kulanu party has 10 seats; HaBayit HaYehudi has eight; the ultra-orthodox religious party Shas has seven; and the other ultra-orthodox religious party United Torah Judaism has six seats.

Netanyahu’s fourth government is even further to the right of his previous ones. Many Israelis are concerned, and have characterized the new government as “Bibi’s all-time worst coalition.”

In response to Netanyahu’s appointment of Shaked, head of the Peace Now organization Yariv Oppenheimer commented, “Shaked as Justice Minister is like placing an idol in the Temple. No less.” MK Nachman Shai, of the Zionist Union, remarked “the demand to give Ayelet Shaked the Justice portfolio is like giving the Fire and Rescue Services to a pyromaniac.”

Arutz Sheva, an Israeli news outlet associated with the settler movement, notes “Shaked is expected to tackle leftists inside the judicial system head on.” The publication also characterizes her appointment as an “historic” and “major political coup,” writing

Shaked’s appointment is considered a major political coup and could potentially pave the way for an historic change in Israeli politics. The judicial system in Israel is considered to be the strongest governmental bastion of the leftist founding elites, and its “activism” has hampered attempts by the Right to effectively rule Israel for decades.

The extreme views of Shaked and Bennett are not limited to their party. Other powerful figures in Netanyahu’s government harbor similar ideas. During Israel’s summer 2014 attack, codenamed “Operation Protective Edge,” deputy speaker of the Knesset Moshe Feiglin, a senior figure in Bibi’s Likud party, called for Israel to “concentrate” and “exterminate” Palestinians in Gaza.

An independent investigation into Operation Protective Edge found Israel deliberately targeted civilians and medical workers and used unconventional weapons. After eight months of interviewing over 60 Israeli soldiers and officers who participated in the assault, Israeli veterans organization Breaking the Silence also discovered that “soldiers were briefed by their commanders to fire at every person they identified in a combat zone.” Soldiers say they were ordered to “shoot to kill” “any person you see,” including civilians.

Prime Minister Netanyahu and many of his political peers have continuously referred to the Israel Defense Forces as “the most moral army in the world.” Israeli soldiers recall shooting Palestinian civilians in Gaza because they were “bored.”

This piece was updated to emphasize the distinction between Shaked’s quotation of Elitzur’s words and her own words, and to include recent reports of her views of Palestinians.

About Ben Norton

Ben is a journalist and writer based in New York City. His work has been featured in a variety of publications, and he is presently a politics staff writer at Salon. His website can be found at BenNorton.com. Follow him on Twitter at @BenjaminNorton.

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165 Responses

  1. JeffB
    May 6, 2015, 10:08 am

    @Ben

    I’m writing this at 9:55 am EST. It will be dated probably as soon as I write it.

    First off this is not a done deal.
    Netanyahu is proposing that Shaked not have authority over judges.
    Religious court: Likud and Shas appoints
    Secular court: Likud

    Bennett (Shaked’s boss) is OK with no authority over the religious court since Shaked isn’t religious. But her whole point in justice is to rebuild the judiciary to reduce the scope of judicial authority… similar to the American right’s anger about judicial activism. Netanyahu while desperately wanting the coalition doesn’t want someone in the cabinet who is coming in promising to fight a war against the supreme court.
    Also there is a second issue whether she sits on Ministerial Committee for Legislation (i.e. the group that gets to decide what bills go the Knesset for debate sort of like the office of the Speaker in the USA House of Representatives.

    Netanyahu may lose, he may win but AFAIK it is still not decided.

    ___

    Also your characterization is a bit bizarre. Shaked has given dozens of speeches. Her views are well known. She not shockingly supports her party’s platform which calls for Gaza’s independence, full citizenship in Golan, Jerusalem and Area-C and self rule (a Palestinian homeland inside Israel) for Palestinians in areas A and B. That’s not genocide.

    The other stuff about the coalition being right wing… well yeah the left parties and the center parties ruled out being in the coalition. Netanyahu likes a balanced coalition with Likud in the center this is not his doing.

    • just
      May 6, 2015, 10:23 am

      You’ll justify anything that is brand Israel/Zionism, JeffB.

      It’s grotesque.

      • Mooser
        May 6, 2015, 4:28 pm

        “You’ll justify anything that is brand Israel/Zionism, JeffB.”

        Except, you know, actually going there to live. That, he’ll never justify!

    • a blah chick
      May 6, 2015, 10:23 am

      She’s for Gaza independence? Is that before or after she’s killed all the little snakes?

    • amigo
      May 6, 2015, 10:43 am

      Jeffy boy, how about a source for your claims.

      The same is required of Hamburger restaurants, otherwise customers would not know if they were eating beef or horse meat .

      It may have passed your finely tuned zionist brain , but the fact that nietanyahu is courting this degenerate , gives those operating with the benefit of an intellect an insight into just what to expect and it is not a gov seeking justice and equality for all it,s citizens or those it oppresses.

    • Marnie
      May 6, 2015, 10:45 am

      “Netanyahu likes a balanced coalition with Likud in the center this is not his doing.”

      The words “balanced” and “Netanyahu” do not belong in the same universe, much less your sentence. You’re a damn fool.

    • Annie Robbins
      May 6, 2015, 11:48 am

      jeff,

      She’s not for killing all the little snakes…I don’t know why you all feel the need to make up stuff.

      They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-palestinians-government#sthash.w24WOHKl.dpuf

      who’s making stuff up? you.

      Netanyahu while desperately wanting the coalition doesn’t want someone in the cabinet who is coming in promising to fight a war against the supreme court.

      do you have a source for this or are you making it up?

      edit: whoops, i see someone exited your denial/accusation comment. smart. oh well, my comment stands.

      • JeffB
        May 6, 2015, 12:09 pm

        @Annie

        do you have a source for this or are you making it up?

        Bayit Yehudi faction chairwoman Ayelet Shaked called for a change in the way justices are chosen, so that they do not select their successors and there is a balance between judicial activists and the other members in the 11-member court (http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Court-ruling-on-migrants-irks-critics-of-judicial-activism-376067)

        http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Party-heads-rail-against-bills-limiting-judicial-activism-329393

        http://haforum.org/legal-forum-holds-knesset-conference-judicial-activism

        http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/EU-concerned-over-Likud-proposals-to-weaken-Israels-judiciary-399110

        Should I keep going?

        Now you owe me a retraction. I suspect it will not be forthcoming. Anyway too much censorship on this thread so I’m done.

      • Mooser
        May 6, 2015, 1:29 pm

        “Anyway too much censorship on this thread…”

        There’s an interesting article by Josh Marshall (a “Jew and a Zionist” verbatim) at “TPM” about this very subject, but with a little more emphasis on the personal relationship between Nettie, Lieberman and the rest.

        It’s called “Bibi Gets the Shiv”

      • Annie Robbins
        May 6, 2015, 1:40 pm

        jeff, you claimed Netanyahu doesn’t want someone in the cabinet who is coming in promising to fight a war against the supreme court.

        your response to my request for a source for that allegation doesn’t quote netanyahu or reference him. i have opened enough of your links in my days to know they don’t provide sources for your allegations. the first link doesn’t even mention netanyahu. can you try quoting something relevant to your allegation please. before demanding a retraction. thanks.

        btw, what you call ‘censorship’ we call spamming the thread with endless unsourced allegations.

      • Mooser
        May 6, 2015, 4:32 pm

        “They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.”

        Annie, it is perfectly obvious Ms Shaked simply thinks Palestinians should not waste their time on herpetology when they could be dialoguing with Israel!
        You are deliberately misinterpreting her statement!

        Really, is there a big demand for herpetologists in the ME?

      • JeffB
        May 7, 2015, 7:55 am

        @Annie

        Likud had been loath to give Jewish Home the Justice Ministry, fearing it would use the position to push through controversial reforms weakening the Supreme Court and changing the makeup of the panel that chooses new justices.

        Likud officials told Haaretz that there were two problems with giving the Justice Ministry to Jewish Home.

        “The first is that the justice minister will soon have to decide on who the next attorney general will be,” one official said. “It’s a very sensitive position, and Netanyahu has no desire to entrust that task to Bennett or Shaked. The second problem is that Shaked is spearheading the battle to change the face of the Supreme Court. Netanyahu has so far avoided going head to head with the court, and he may well not want this headache.” (http://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-homes-ayelet-shaked-gets-justice-ministry-with-limitations/)

        Also
        http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/.premium-1.655139

        Mostly though consider the obvious. Her proposals to restrict the court in 2013 and 2014 weren’t backed by Netanyahu while being attacked on the floor of the knesset by Likud ministers.

      • Mooser
        May 8, 2015, 5:19 am

        Annie, could you check something for me? On another thread I think I see JeffyB saying:

        “The Holocaust justifies the Nabka completely. Had Zionism been successful a decade earlier a huge chunk if not all of the six million who died would have lived.” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/response-washington-blogger/comment-page-1#comment-766460

        I need new glasses, don’t I? I’m seeing things.

      • Kris
        May 8, 2015, 10:48 am

        @Mooser: “Annie, could you check something for me? On another thread I think I see JeffyB saying:

        “The Holocaust justifies the Nabka completely. Had Zionism been successful a decade earlier a huge chunk if not all of the six million who died would have lived.”

        – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-palestinians-government#comment-766461

        Thanks, Mooser; this is the most startling comment I have read on mondoweiss yet!

        No doubt there were “justifications” for slavery, the Holocaust, the Rwandan genocide, Pol Pot, etc., too? Here’s a starter list of genocides: http://www.rantpolitical.com/2014/12/06/15-worst-genocides-in-history/

        Here’s JeffB’s comment:

        JeffB May 7, 2015, 7:17 am

        @oldgeezer (& also indirectly @kris)

        But if there were a group of people who wanted to end Palestinian rights to have self rule in their state shop off huge sections of Palestine and ethnically cleanse the Palestinians from those sections, to give to import a hostile foreign population to rule over the Palestinians… I wouldn’t favor that either.

        Yes you would. You clearly support European and North American Jews doing just that.

        I’m not sure where you get that I support that. If this debate had been in 1915 and not 2015 I might very well have huge problems with the morality of Zionism. The destruction of a society is a horrific act and something that should only be done for the best reasons. I don’t believe Texans are a nation, just as I don’t believe Palestinians in 1915 were a nation. But that doesn’t mean the society in Texas should be destroyed without very good reason. In 1915 it is entirely possible, were I not a partisan that I wouldn’t have seen what Jews were facing as a good enough reason to destroy the Levant society in Palestine. Zionism was a tiny minority view even among Jews in 1915, there is no reason to believe if I lived then I would have been a Zionist. And if I were a Zionist in 1915 I likely wouldn’t have seen that colonialism was about to collapse, (though I would have understood that the Ottoman Empire was done for). The idea that we were a generation away from the entire world going through what Europe went through in the 16th century wouldn’t have occurred to me and I might very well have supported a Jewish homeland in Palestine and not a Jewish state.

        Now I would have been wrong in my moral qualms The Holocaust justifies the Nabka completely. Had Zionism been successful a decade earlier a huge chunk if not all of the six million who died would have lived. Jews who believed in liberal humanism ended up killing millions of their fellows. We know that both Hitler and Eichmann supported the Madagascar Plan, had Palestine been available they would have supported Herzl in his bleak assessment of the Jewish future was proven right, the vast majority of Jews who believed that the middle ages anti-Semitism was a thing of the past proven wrong. So in 1915 knowing the future, yes I would have supported Zionism. The first rule of life is survival.

        But in 2015 that’s not the relevant question. In 1915 the relevant question is not whether to bring back the Christian society that existed in Palestine prior to the Egyptian / Mamluk Byzantine conquest, but whether to replace the existing Levant society with a new Jewish society. Similarly in 2015 the question whether to destroy the Jewish society that exists in Palestine and replace it with an Arab Muslim society. The Levant society of the 19th century is gone forever, just like the pre-Mamluk Christian society is gone forever.

        All humans act in time. We can’t change the past. We cannot decide what happened in the past. We can only act in the present so as to shape the future. You all are the advocates for destroying
        the existing society in Palestine. The argument that this is justified by how they got there is nonsense because the Palestinians themselves got there through the same process. Not wanting to see societies destroyed and not wanting to see the peoples genocided is consistent with opposing BDS not supporting it.

        – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/response-washington-blogger/comment-page-1#comment-766460

      • oldgeezer
        May 8, 2015, 11:34 am

        @Kris/Mooser

        Thanks for your post as I missed jeff’s response.

        Jeff is a rare bird and says some very amazing things. On an article in February when asked if he would support Israel or the US in the case of a conflict he responded

        I don’t have ties to the military but I do have ties to telcos. You better believe if Israel needed me and those were helpful I’d use them. I love America but it is hard to imagine any situation where America faced the kind existential threat that an American / Israeli war would represent. Damn right I’d be wanting the USA to lose and if I had a way to do more than want, I would. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/jeffb/18#sthash.wJrMhNlt.dpuf

        I can’t recite the pledge of allegiance but I’m pretty sure the words maybe and sometimes aren’t in there.

      • just
        May 8, 2015, 11:43 am

        Although somewhat stunning and very gruesome, it’s nice to know where JeffB stands.

        Thanks Mooser, Kris, and oldgeezer.

      • Kris
        May 8, 2015, 11:56 am

        @oldgeezer– Your quote from JeffB’s post: “I love America but it is hard to imagine any situation where America faced the kind existential threat that an American / Israeli war would represent. Damn right I’d be wanting the USA to lose and if I had a way to do more than want, I would.”

        has me thinking of this: “Am I a spy in the land of the living, that I should deliver men to Death? Brother, the password and the plans of our city are safe with me; never through me Shall you be overcome.”

        Conscientious Objector

        I shall die, but that is all I shall do for Death.
        I hear him leading his horse out of the stall; I hear the clatter on the barn door.
        He is in haste; he has business in Cuba, business in the Balkans, many calls to make this morning.
        But I will not hold the bridle while he cinches the girth.
        And he may mount by himself: I will not give him a leg up.
        Though he flick my shoulders with his whip, I will not tell him which way the fox ran.
        With his hoof on my breast, I will not tell him where the black boy hides in the swamp.
        I shall die, but that is all I shall do for Death; I am not on his payroll.
        I will not tell him the whereabouts of my friends nor of my enemies either.
        Though he promise me much, I will not map him the route to any man’s door.
        Am I a spy in the land of the living, that I should deliver men to Death?
        Brother, the password and the plans of our city are safe with me; never through me
        Shall you be overcome.

        – Edna St. Vincent Millay, 1892-1950

        Here is Mary Travers singing this poem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYkIkCtdysw

      • just
        May 8, 2015, 12:20 pm

        Thanks for reminding me, Kris.

      • oldgeezer
        May 8, 2015, 12:26 pm

        @Kris

        Beautiful words to live by. Frankly I am not sure I’d stand up to torture but as a principle it’s something to aspire to.

      • Walid
        May 8, 2015, 12:36 pm

        ” Zionism was a tiny minority view even among Jews in 1915, there is no reason to believe if I lived then I would have been a Zionist. ” (Kris)

        Hi, Kris, 1915 was a very bad year for Jews as colonialism and Palestinian Arabs were the last thing on the mind of Jews in Palestine. It was the year that the Ottomans brought all kinds of diseases to the area and the other half of the Jews that hadn’t been wiped by the famine brought on by the Ottomans was slated for deportation to Syria and Jordan to rid the area of its Jews and Christians; it was actually the Germans that put in a good word for the Jews that prevented their deportation. I don’t have numbers for Palestine but a couple of days back, Beirut commemorated the centenary of the Ottoman-forced famine on the Lebanese that wiped out 200,000 and forced a good part of the remaining population to emigrate to the Americas.

        Last year, Haaretz had a good article on what happened in 1915 to the Jews of Palestine and especially those of Jerusalem:

        http://www.haaretz.com/life/books/.premium-1.608235

      • Annie Robbins
        May 8, 2015, 12:46 pm

        these quotes of jeff’s are really gruesome-disgusting. it’s the first time i have read them.

        jeff, re your link: thanks for at least staying on topic. Netanyahu ‘avoiding going head to head with the court’, and “he may well not want this headache.” is a far cry from “doesn’t want someone in the cabinet who is coming in promising to fight a war against the supreme court. ” albeit, you could be right. thanks for the source tho according to your link he may want to appoint the next attorney general or have that be in likud’s corner, that could be at the crutch of his priority along with the demand from his own likud party members to hold onto a minimum of ministries (i read that latter claim yesterday).

        furthermore, your allegation “Netanyahu likes a balanced coalition with Likud in the center this is not his doing. ” is absurd. this is very much “his doing”. yes he is in a corner but you act like he has no choice. he has a choice. hertzog said he would form a coalition w/likud ( http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-election-2015/.premium-1.637506 ), netanyahu shot that down w/the words “radically left and anti-Zionist list”. if netanyahu had any interest in a ‘balanced’ coalition w/likud in the ‘center’, he could have had one.

        he’d rather form a risky coalition prone to extortion than have likud in the “center”. likud will end up being on the far left inside the coalition he’s cobbled together. and did you read:

        “Next head of ‘Civil Administration’ said Palestinians are sub-human”?
        http://972mag.com/next-head-of-civil-administration-said-palestinians-are-sub-human/106533/

        MK Eli Ben-Dahan was just appointed to oversee the Administration, which oversees the theft of Palestinian land, settlement expansion and controls the movement of millions of Palestinians.

        “[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” — MK Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan, Aug 1, 2013. (Hebrew)

        “A Jew always has a much higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual.” — MK Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan, Dec 27, 2013. (Hebrew/English)

        Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu finalized the formation of a new government this week when he signed a coalition agreement with far-right settler party Jewish Home. As part of the agreement, Rabbi Ben-Dahan will be Israel’s next deputy defense minister, responsible for the army’s “Civil Administration.”

        The Civil Administration is responsible for all aspects the occupation that don’t involve boots-on-the-ground security operations — it administers planning, building, and infrastructure for both Jews and Palestinians in Area C of the West Bank. It also administers the Palestinian population database and is responsible for granting and revoking entry and travel permits for Palestinians, controlling every aspect of their movement.

        In other words, the man slated to take charge of an organization entrusted with supervising the theft of Palestinian land and supervising Palestinians’ lives, is a racist who said he does not see them as human, but rather as animals

        this is not his doing? he’d prefer this than forming a coalition w/the “anti zionist” hertzog list.

      • Mooser
        May 8, 2015, 1:28 pm

        “Thanks for your post as I missed jeff’s response.”

        Yes that response adds a new perspective to Phil’s “Forgiving the Anti-Semites” article, doesn’t it?
        If we forgive the Holocaust, how can we justify the Nakba?
        Gosh, when I think about the immunity we gain by not forgiving, maybe we should send Hitler a thank-you note.

        I mean, Herzl would, he never forgot his “best friends”.

      • Mooser
        May 8, 2015, 2:03 pm

        “Thanks, Mooser; this is the most startling comment I have read on mondoweiss yet! “

        “Startling”? Not really. It was only a matter of time till somebody in the in the logorrhea phase of a Ziocaine Syndrome episode came out and said it directly. But don’t try and get him to explain it, by now the amnesia phase has kicked in.

        And don’t be alarmed when all the rest of the Ziobots chime in, lauding JeffyB’s statement- a show of tribal unity is very important to them. Without unity, without everybody pulling together, Zionism is doomed!

      • Kris
        May 8, 2015, 2:56 pm

        @Walid–

        Those words you quoted were JeffB’s (quoted in my post), not mine!

      • Walid
        May 8, 2015, 3:38 pm

        “Those words you quoted were JeffB’s (quoted in my post), not mine! ”

        Ooooops; sorry.

      • JeffB
        May 8, 2015, 9:31 pm

        @Annie

        furthermore, your allegation “Netanyahu likes a balanced coalition with Likud in the center this is not his doing. ” is absurd. this is very much “his doing”. yes he is in a corner but you act like he has no choice. he has a choice. hertzog said he would form a coalition w/likud ( link to haaretz.com ), netanyahu shot that down w/the words “radically left and anti-Zionist list”. if netanyahu had any interest in a ‘balanced’ coalition w/likud in the ‘center’, he could have had one.

        Neither of us has access to the coalition negotiations. We know that Herzog was under pressure about 2 weeks ago from within Labor to accept the deal that Netanyahu was offering so he evidently did offer a pretty good deal. ZU had run on not being part of a coalition. Further Netanyahu is clearly holding open Foreign Minister to pick up another partner. From what I’ve heard Herzog is demanding a full 1/2 and 1/2 rotation. Sure there exist some price at which he could have had a unity government but in general, no I think the left is more responsible for this government. Netanyahu’s political philosophy which centers on him maintaining flexibility is well known and well documented over his more than 2 decades in public life. We know as much about his thinking as any political figure.

        Here is a recent link of Herzog yet again refusing: https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2015/05/07/with-weak-edge-netanyahu-saves-big-post-for-rival/EcBuhyGYC7iBm1QMk6HMTP/story.html

        As for Eli Ben-Dahan he’s one of Uri Ariel’s guys and I don’t know their thing. I don’t know if he just intends to quietly build like Ariel tends to do or if he is going to play bad cop to Bennett’s good cop with regard to Area-C (i.e. accept citizenship or live under Ben-Dahan’s law). We’ll see. Clearly he’s not winning humanitarian of the year but OTOH Ariel has mostly avoided

        I support the Bennett plan because it is sensible, reasonable, humane and has the potential for the support of Israelis and the Palestinians. I’m happy to see people in office who are likely to implement the Bennett plan. The situation in the West Bank needs to be resolved. Palestinians need to see progress and hope. 50 years from now I’d hope that every Palestinian has a democratic say in their government and none of them live under a military dictatorship. I think he’s going to help achieve that. But I don’t own a crystal ball. I’d rather see people who are slightly less anti-Palestinian in their views implement the change in government. I think it needs a light touch and respect for West Bank Palestinians concerns and I don’t think Ben-Dahan seems like the right guy for that light touch. But who knows?

    • weiss
      May 6, 2015, 3:53 pm

      Wow… Another smug denunciation of the TRUTH:

      Israel is a Racist Apartheid State that practices SYSTEMIC Racism:

      “They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there. ”

      Just plain disgusting…

      • Stephen Shenfield
        May 6, 2015, 7:08 pm

        There is a long tradition in anti-Semitic literature of representing JEWS as snakes. Is that where the Israelis picked up this imagery?

      • Marnie
        May 7, 2015, 12:01 am

        Hey SS –

        Anything that was done to Jews is okay to do to Palestinians? I suspected that was behind all your posts and those of your compatriots on paTROLL at this site. Kill the snakes but kill the mothers so there won’t be any more little snakes. And when this very sick fantasy of this very sick government has been realized, you and millions others will not be able to say “We didn’t know!” “Why didn’t someone tell us?”

        What you will be held to is what you and your fellow zionazis have said all along “WE DON’T CARE”.

      • Mooser
        May 7, 2015, 2:14 am

        “I suspected that was behind all your posts and those of your compatriots on paTROLL at this site.

        Uh-oh, I’m hearing an old Genesis song.

        Not that I haven’t starred in that number myself, many a time, of course.

    • MRW
      May 7, 2015, 9:18 am

      @JeffB May 6, 2015, 10:08 am,

      But her whole point in justice is to rebuild the judiciary to reduce the scope of judicial authority… similar to the American right’s anger about judicial activism.

      These two things are the exact opposite, yet you conflate them and throw in a little presumed American justification to make it stick.

      Judicial activism is a judge who reinterprets the law for his own personal agenda. E.g. the law says “All men are created equal,” but a judge will rule in favor of a racial (or community) majority based on race (or community) irrespective of the crime, and irrespective of the law. Shaked seeks to enshrine her brand of judicial activism in Israel–one law for the Jews, another for everyone else–not get rid of it.

      What is it with you rabid Israeli lovers that you feel the need to associate Israel’s actions with something American and claim conflation as justification? As if your claim makes it so.

      Let me give you a 411 so you can stop this shit: Israel does not have our system of government, and any effort to claim similarity is bogus. Israel has a Parliamentary system of government. We deliberately weakened the power of our federal government through our structure of separation of powers, and a system of checks and balances. It was deliberate on our part. We have a republican form of government, which led to the claim of a “nation of laws” (currently in peril). Israel doesn’t even have that on its horizon, and is currently veering towards a full theocracy.

      Israel’s executive and legislative parts, like all parliamentary systems, are fused. The Israeli PM can choose, and usually does, members of the legislature to his executive cabinet. We don’t do that here, bucko; The President can’t pull elected members of Congress out of the Congress to serve in the Executive without that person resigning from Congress. I don’t know if you’re Israeli or American, but if you’re the latter, then you didn’t get properly educated.

      Under no circumstances could the Attorney General of the US, as you claim Shaked is doing or wants to do, “rebuild the judiciary to reduce the scope of judicial authority.” Just. Would. Not. Happen. In. The. US. Not even close. There would be an uproar.

      Under a parliamentary system of government the PM can shut down the government and call an election whenever he wants; similarly the members of government can call a ‘no confidence vote’ and force an election.

      You can’t do that in the US. The US President can’t call an election whenever he wants. The terms of office for the two parts of our legislative branch, Congress, are enshrined in law, and tough titties if our lawmakers are screwing up. We have to wait to get rid of the bastards unless he has committed a crime.

      At the end of our election cycle, we know what our government is going to look like. We know who we elected.

      Look at the mess in Israel: the PM, after getting “elected” has had seven weeks to create a government.

      So stop this shit of saying Israeli oranges are like US apples.

      • CigarGod
        May 7, 2015, 9:44 am

        5 Stars!

      • DaBakr
        May 7, 2015, 4:17 pm

        so-your problem is with parliamentary systems (like almost all EU) or just criticizing Israels parliament?

        And can you clarify : “The President can’t pull elected members of Congress out of the Congress to serve in the Executive without that person resigning from Congress ” ? (I assume you mean the US president?

      • DaBakr
        May 7, 2015, 4:54 pm

        @mr

        apologies for the block quotes. no need for any quotes at all.

      • MRW
        May 7, 2015, 5:58 pm

        @DaBakr May 7, 2015, 4:17 pm

        Yes, the US president. We have a republican government with a Presidential system. Our President is both head of government and Head of State. Parliamentary systems do not. In Israel, Netanyahu is PM, and Rivlin is President/Head of State. Diplomatically, Rivlin is higher than Netanyahu.

        My ‘problem’ was with Jeff B conflating Israel with the US, justifying Israel’s political actions because we apparently do it. When we don’t, and our rules are different.

      • MRW
        May 7, 2015, 6:08 pm

        @DaBakr May 7, 2015, 4:17 pm,

        Sorry, forgot to answer your question. Shaked is an elected member of the Knesset. Netanyahu chose her as the Justice Minister yesterday. That does not change her Knesset membership.

        In the US, Eric Holder could not be the US Attorney General if he was an elected member of Congress without resigning his congressional office.

        The Executive branch of the US federal government is separate from the legislative branch. The job of US Attorney General is an Executive-branch job. You cannot hold a job in the Legislative branch at the same time.

      • JeffB
        May 8, 2015, 9:39 pm

        @MRW

        Judicial activism has to do with the relationship between civil and common law. Parliamentary system vs. Presidential system has to do with the relationship between the executive and legislative branches. Your screed misses the point.

        As for limitations on judiciary power in the USA we saw a terrific example under George W Bush when the court ruled against him on his classification of prisoners and he ignored it. There wasn’t an uproar, though there was some limited protest. We are seeing something similar in Obama in pulling extra-judicial assassination out from the judiciary and creating a system entirely within the executive.

        I think you may want to learn a bit about how our system works. You are misusing words like “republican government”. France, England, Israel … are as much of a republic as the USA and that has nothing to do with parliamentary vs. presidential for the executive.

    • MRW
      May 7, 2015, 9:26 am

      @JeffB May 6, 2015, 10:08 am,

      Also there is a second issue whether she sits on Ministerial Committee for Legislation (i.e. the group that gets to decide what bills go the Knesset for debate sort of like the office of the Speaker in the USA House of Representatives.

      Not even close. See my previous post.

      Any member of Congress can submit a bill. And a member of Congress can go to the Fourth Estate, the press, to muster up a debate.

      Stop conflating the Israeli system, with the US system. And you don’t need to explain Israeli actions for Americans. We’re smart enough here to perceive the difference, unless of course, you’re a Christian Zionist.

  2. just
    May 6, 2015, 10:15 am

    And I thought that appointing Tzipi Livni was bad. So, this is the true face of Israel. No more pretense, no more excuses. See it now, USA? Are you paying attention White House, Capitol Hill, Foggy Bottom? How about you @ the EU and The Hague? How about you guys in the Arab League? You helped make this a reality~ some more than others.

    Israel continues its descent. In fact, it has accelerated it.

    Thanks for your incredibly well- sourced and written article about this travesty of ‘justice’, Ben.

    • lonely rico
      May 6, 2015, 7:18 pm

      >just
      Israel continues its descent. In fact, it has accelerated it.

      Israel heading down the flight-path taken by co-pilot Andreas Lubitz.

  3. a blah chick
    May 6, 2015, 10:20 am

    I applaud the appointment of Little Snakes. I predict she will do much for the BDS movement in the coming year.

  4. JLewisDickerson
    May 6, 2015, 10:25 am

    RE: “[Ayelet] Shaked has also adamantly opposed signing any peace deals with Palestinians based on the pre-1967 borders, claiming that such a deal would constitute ‘national suicide’. Netanyahu was re-elected on the promise that there would never be a Palestinian state.” ~ Ben Norton

    SEE – “Bibi’s Father’s Answer to the ‘Arab Problem’: Hang’ Em in the Town Square”, By Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 4/04/09

    [EXCERPTS] Imagine, if you will, if Barack Obama’s real father was Rev. Jeremiah Wright and imagine, if you will, that Wright gave an eight-page interview to USA Today the week of Obama’s inauguration. Then you can imagine the “interest” with which such a ‘Maariv’ interview with Bibi Netanyahu’s father was met in Israeli circles.
    Noam Sheizaf…has translated portions of the interview. . .
    . . . And without further ado, I give you, Ben Zion Netanyahu, the father of the man:

    [EXCERPTS] . . . • Question: You don’t like the Arabs, to say the least.
    Benzion Netanyahu: “The Bible finds no worse image than this of the man from the desert. And why? Because he has no respect for any law. Because in the desert he can do as he pleases.
    The tendency towards conflict is in the essence of the Arab. He is an enemy by essence. His personality won’t allow him any compromise or agreement. It doesn’t matter what kind of resistance he will meet, what price he will pay. His existence is one of perpetuate war.”. . .
    . . . • Question: Is there any hope of peace?
    Benzion Netanyahu: …No…The two states solution doesn’t exist. There are no two people here. There is a Jewish people and an Arab population… there is no Palestinian people, so you don’t create a state for an imaginary nation … they only call themselves a people in order to fight the Jews.”
    • Question: So what’s the solution?
    Benzion Netanyahu: “No solution but force… strong military rule. Any outbreak will bring upon the Arabs enormous suffering. We shouldn’t wait for a big mutiny to start, but rather act immediately with great force to prevent them from going on…
    If it’s possible, we should conquer any disputed territory in the land of Israel. Conquer and hold it, even if it brings us years of war. We should conquer Gaza, and parts of the Galil, and the Golan. This will bring upon us a bloody war. . .
    . . . There is valuable experience [on this matter] we don’t pay notice to. I mean the Ottoman rule over the Arabs. The Turks ruled over the Arabs for 400 years, and there was peace and quiet everywhere. The Arabs hated the Ottomans, but every little thing they did brought mass killings and hanging in towns squares. They were hanging people in Damascus, and Izmir… every town had hanging posts in its center…the Arabs were so badly beaten, they didn’t dare revolt. Naturally, I don’t recommend the use of hangings as a show of force like the Turks did, I just want to show that the only thing that might move the Arabs from the rejectionist position is force. . .

    ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/04/04/bibis-fathers-answer-to-the-arab-problem-hang-em-in-the-town-square

    • bintbiba
      May 6, 2015, 10:36 am

      And this is the mother’s milk Baby Bibi grew up on, to become the full blown Bibinyamin .
      No surprise. The fruit does not fall far from the tree !

      Sick … Tragic .

    • JLewisDickerson
      May 6, 2015, 10:44 am

      P.S. ALSO SEE: “A Boy Called Bibi ~ Netanyahu on the Couch”, by Uri Avnery, CounterPunch.org, May 1-3, 2015

      [EXCERPTS] There are two different opinions about Binyamin Netanyahu. It is difficult to believe that they concern the same person.

      One is that Netanyahu is a shallow politician, devoid of ideas and convictions, who is led solely by his obsession to remain in power. This Netanyahu has a good voice and a talent for making shallow speeches on television, speeches devoid of any intellectual content – and that’s all.

      This Netanyahu is highly “pressurable” (a Hebrew word invented almost solely for him), a man who will change his views according to political expediency, disclaiming in the evening what he has said in the morning. None of his words should be trusted. He will lie and cheat anytime to assure his survival.

      The other Netanyahu is almost the exact opposite. A principled patriot, a serious thinker, a statesman who sees danger beyond the horizon. This Netanyahu is a gifted orator, able to move the US Congress and the UN plenum, admired by the great mass of Israelis.

      So which of these descriptions is true?

      Neither.

      If it is true that the character of a person is shaped by his early childhood, we must examine the background of Netanyahu in order to understand him.

      He grew up in the shadow of a strong father. Benzion Millikowsky, who changed his foreign name to the Hebrew Netanyahu, was a very dominant and very unhappy person. Born in Warsaw, then a provincial town in the Russian Empire, he immigrated to Palestine as a young man, studied history at the new Hebrew University in Jerusalem and expected to become a professor there. He was not accepted.

      Benzion was the son of an early adherent of Vladimir (Ze’ev) Jabotinsky, the extreme rightist Zionist leader. He inherited from his father a very extremist outlook, and passed it on to his three sons. . .

      . . . So who is this Netanyahu? Contrary to popular opinion, he is a man of very strong beliefs – the beliefs of his far-right father. The entire world is out to kill us at all times, we need a powerful state to defend ourselves, all of the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan has been given us by God (whether he exists or not). Everything else is lies, subterfuges, tactics.

      When, in a famous speech at Bar-Ilan university near Tel Aviv, Netanyahu embraced the principle of “Two States for Two Peoples”, those who knew him could only smile. It was as if he had recommended the eating of pork on Yom Kippur.

      He dangled this statement before the eyes of the naive Americans and let his Justice Minister, Tzipi Livni, lead endless negotiations with the Palestinians, whom he despises. Whenever it seemed that the negotiations were nearing some goal, he quickly put up another condition, such us the ridiculous demand that the Palestinians recognize Israel as the Nation State of the Jewish People. He would not dream, of course, of recognizing the Palestinian territories as the Nation State of the Palestinian People – a people he does not really believe exists at all.

      On the eve of the last election, just now, Netanyahu announced that there would not be a Palestinian state as long as he was in power. When the Americans remonstrated, he repudiated himself. Why not? As his Likud predecessor, Yitzhak Shamir, famously said, “It is permitted to lie for the Fatherland.”

      Netanyahu will lie, cheat, repudiate himself, raise false flags – all for the purpose of achieving his one and only real goal, the Rock of our Existence (as he loves to say), the heritage of his father – the Jewish State from the sea to the river. . .

      ENTIRE COMMENTARY – http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/05/01/netanyahu-on-the-couch/

    • CigarGod
      May 7, 2015, 9:15 am

      I like the quote: The man of the desert…has no respect for any law.
      Meaning…the man of the desert resists imposition of Jewish law…so all violence that follows is the fault of the man of the desert.

  5. amigo
    May 6, 2015, 10:35 am

    “The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to. ”

    But Israel,s moral warfare did not inclde allowing the 1.5 million Palestinians to escape anywhere.

    This degenerate zionist cannot see the difference.

    And this is the proposed new goi that Obama will accept as serious about making peace.Made up of thieves, murderers and proponents of genocide.

    Give us a break.

  6. JLewisDickerson
    May 6, 2015, 11:01 am

    RE: The extreme views of Shaked and Bennett are not limited to their party. Other powerful figures in Netanyahu’s government harbor similar ideas. During Israel’s summer 2014 attack, codenamed “Operation Protective Edge,” deputy speaker of the Knesset Moshe Feiglin, a senior figure in Bibi’s Likud party, called for Israel to “concentrate” and “exterminate” Palestinians in Gaza. ~ Ben Norton

    FOR SOME BACKGROUND ON FEIGLIN, SEE: “Feiglin New Rightist Power Behind Likud Throne”, by Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 27 December 2008

    [EXCERPTS] Gershom Gorenberg has written a stunner of a political appraisal of the role Moshe Feiglin and his far-right allies will play in Likud before and especially after the next national election. Feiglin is an Orthodox extremist settler leader who toiled in the political trenches of far-right splinter parties until he cottoned on to an idea David Duke had some time ago. Instead of laboring in political obscurity, take over the major party nearest to your ideology. In this case it was Likud.
    In the last leadership primary [i.e., back in 2008 ~ J.L.D.], Feiglin (remember again that his views are somewhat akin to Duke’s in an Israeli context) garnered 25% of the vote to embarrass Netanyahu deeply. In the most recent primary, Feiglin and his allies chipped away further at the party leader: not only did Feiglin place 20th on the list which would’ve made him a certain MK winner (party leaders later used technicalities to move him to 36th), but many of his ideological soulmates placed high in the list as well. Gorenberg argues that no matter how centrist Netanyahu tries to paint the party, the newly empowered extremists will weigh him down like an albatross. The Israeli journalist speculates that even IF (a big “if”) Netanyahu would want to engage in territorial compromise with the Palestinians after becoming prime minister, the rump right wing caucus could muster the support to nix such an initiative or anything that even smacks of craven capitulation to the enemy.

    Here are some of the more shocking beliefs that Feiglin holds:

    On the Jewish Leadership website, [he] proposes principles for a constitution for Israel. It would include a high rabbinic court, chosen only by clergy, that would overturn any legislation it saw as contradicting Jewish religious law. A newly established senate, with a guaranteed Jewish majority of over 80 percent, would have to consult the rabbinic court on all national issues. Israel would lay claim not only to the West Bank and Gaza, but also to all of Jordan.
    . . . He proposes . . . holding a ceremony at every army base in which all non-lethal weaponry would be destroyed. Faced with Palestinian demonstrators, soldiers could only shoot to kill. . . Another Feiglin tract contrasts parliamentary democracy with an “authentic Jewish regime” that would express the “organic unity of the Nation of Israel.” Put simply, Feiglin’s ideology is the meeting point of fundamentalism and fascism.

    Gorenberg concludes his essay with this warning about the false ‘branding’ of Likud under Netanyahu’s leadership:

    The campaign packaging for the Likud will show Netanyahu’s face. In his modulated MBA voice, he’ll try to sell the Likud to voters as a pragmatic conservative party, willing to make peace if only the Palestinians agree to its conditions. Inside the package, however, is a party in thrall to a lean and hungry man offering extremist leadership for Israel. . .

    ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2008/12/27/feiglin-new-rightist-power-behind-likud-throne/

  7. Kay24
    May 6, 2015, 11:08 am

    If this does go through, it will be a message to the entire world from the Butcher of Tel Aviv that they will continue the same ruthless policies, and continue the occupation. Calling for the genocide of Palestinians is so nazi like – and they accuse others of wanting to wipe them off the map – they are no better, in fact worse, because they are killing Palestinians on a daily basis.

    Bibi has a choice of showing just how “sincere” he can be, when he says they want nothing but peace (okay let’s ignore the fact that he boasted that he does not want a two state solution).
    Actions speak louder than words, and Israel’s actions always stink.

  8. eljay
    May 6, 2015, 11:21 am

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu decided to appoint Ayelet Shaked as justice minister in his fourth government.

    It should surprise no-one that a hard-core, Zio-supremacist hate-monger appoints as in/justice minister another hard-core, Zio-supremacist hate-monger.

    During Israel’s summer 2014 attack on Gaza, MK Shaked essentially called for the genocide of Palestinians.

    In typical Zio-supremacist fashion, she neglected to mention in her post that Israel:
    – was envisioned as a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”, primarily of and for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews, in as much of (Mandate) Palestine as possible;
    – was established by means of Jewish terrorism and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and lands;
    – undertook and remains engaged in a 60+ years, on-going and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction, torture and murder;
    – refuses to honour its obligations under international law;
    – refuses to accept responsibility and accountability for its past and on-going (war) crimes; and
    – refuses to enter into sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace.

  9. weiss
    May 6, 2015, 11:29 am

    Benzion Netanyahu: …” No…The two states solution doesn’t exist. There are no two people here. There is a Jewish people and an Arab population… there is no Palestinian people, so you don’t create a state for an imaginary nation … they only call themselves a people in order to fight the Jews.”

    Thanks for reminding us why Satanyahoo is guilty of serial GENOCIDE.

    His father was a certifiably Fascist Dictator of Revisionist History…

  10. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    May 6, 2015, 12:03 pm

    Not on topic but I can’t find a more appropriate place for it.

    While I’m hoping for a Labour victory in tomorrow’s UK elections, I’m sort of dreading the ”anti-semitism” hysteria from the meeja if Miliband becomes PM. The elections haven’t even taken place yet, and they’re already at it, or at least the Jonathan Freedland Guardian is, claiming that a silly cover story in The Sun is ‘anti-semitic’.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/06/sun-front-page-antisemitic-save-our-bacon-ed-miliband#comments

    Thankfully, most readers are mocking the writer for his spurious ‘anti-semite’ accusations, but still, you can tell that the anti-semitism industry is rubbing its hands in glee at the thought of a Miliband victory. It’ll be impossible to say a word against him, because that might be ‘antisemitic’, you see.

    • John O
      May 6, 2015, 12:14 pm

      I’ve been following this story today (and made a BTL comment). I thought it did have a whiff of anti-semitism about it. Like Jeremy Clarkson’s infamous “slope” comment, it has that “let’s see how far we can go” feel about it.

      I, too, hope he gets into No. 10. I hope someone asks Maureen Lipman for her reaction :-)

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        May 6, 2015, 12:39 pm

        ” I thought it did have a whiff of anti-semitism about it. ”

        Meh. If it had been a tuna sandwich they’d have said he was a very fishy character. The Sun specialises in silly word play, but some people are just desperate to find ‘a whiff of antisemitism’ everywhere. Could you imagine if Labour had a Muslim leader? There wouldn’t be a barely detectable ‘whiff’ of Islamophobia about the tabloids’ coverage. There would have been an all-emcompassing stench.

        ”I hope someone asks Maureen Lipman for her reaction :-)”

        You mean she’s still here? I thought she’d run off for safety to Israel, rather than stay in a country so horribly antisemitic that it is seriously considering electing a Jewish PM.

      • John O
        May 6, 2015, 12:55 pm

        “You mean she’s still here?”

        I fear so, and on the stage, too.

      • Bumblebye
        May 7, 2015, 11:41 am

        Apparently Taiwan has been taking a poke at our elections and conclude that we have “electile dysfunction”! Should we take umbrage and point over there at Israel to say they have it far worse than us?

    • DaBakr
      May 11, 2015, 4:57 pm

      just want to put on the record-all the worry about Miliband winning. He was defeated as were all the Bramford East Israel hating crowd. Galloway suffered a most humiliating defeat. Couldn’t wish it on a finer candidate though its probably a good bet he’ll remain around for some time.

  11. Annie Robbins
    May 6, 2015, 12:07 pm

    this is to be expected (her ascension)and what was predicted (generally speaking) when netanyahu won the election. in a normal society someone would be cast out of politics for that genocidal FB screed. in israel, she gets promoted. this is the direction israel is heading, it should be no surprise to anyone.

    • Mooser
      May 7, 2015, 4:09 pm

      Intersting coverage of this at TPM, where Marshall contends that Netties government goes into power at war against itself.

      I’m almost afraid to ask, but is Ms. Shaked, well, a lawyer, or have any legal qualifications at all? Does she have any experience in this sort of thing?

  12. hophmi
    May 6, 2015, 12:24 pm

    May the day come when a single Arab Prime Minister has to go through the six weeks of democratic coalition building the current Israeli Prime Minister has just gone through.

    The only difference between Ayelet Shaked and Hamas is that Shaked represents a party that won 8 seats out of 120, and Hamas, which certainly views every Israeli man, woman, and child as an enemy combatant, rules Gaza and is popular in the West Bank.

    • John O
      May 6, 2015, 12:40 pm

      I seem to remember Iraqi prime ministers, post 2003, having considerable problems putting together a coalition. Tunisia after the Arab spring too. Enough of the “only democracy in the Middle East” bullshit already.

      • just
        May 6, 2015, 1:30 pm

        “Enough of the “only democracy in the Middle East” bullshit already.”

        +1, John O!

        Besides, it’s demonstrably false. So is the “self- defense” meme. Wonder how all the people on the Hill and in the WH feel now after the entire report came out. I wonder whether they will bother to read it. Because the next time they try to screech that entitlement to self- defense (that according to them, belongs only to Israel), even more Americans will be gasping for air between laughs of disgust.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      May 6, 2015, 12:41 pm

      ”May the day come when a single Arab Prime Minister has to go through the six weeks of democratic coalition building the current Israeli Prime Minister has just gone through.”

      We can now add the political history of Lebanon – where coalitions are very much the norm – to the long list of things hophmi has no clue about.

    • just
      May 6, 2015, 12:48 pm

      That’s really stretching the imagination!

      You’ve outdone yourself, hophmi. I take it that you failed Logic 101.

    • Cliff
      May 6, 2015, 1:00 pm

      @hoppy

      Jewish terrorists and their supporters like you regularly kill Palestinian women and children.

      Hamas can only dream or talk of doing what you monsters do in action.

      • traintosiberia
        May 6, 2015, 1:33 pm

        thank you,its always “they are saying , they are saying ”
        while the Zionsit are actually doing while . Followed by the neocons approving saying “Israel is doing the heavy lifting to save the West “. I think the message was neoconishly similar in one of Geller’s ads.

    • oldgeezer
      May 6, 2015, 2:08 pm

      @hophmi

      Shorter hophmi – Israel is no worse than Hamas

      And the bar gets set lower and lower. What a light unto nations.

      • catalan
        May 6, 2015, 3:02 pm

        “What a light unto nations.”
        And why is that, in your opinion? Some Semitic trait? Inability to see the light? Are you saying that if Danes or Swedes settled Palestine, it would be conflict-free?
        Who are these perfect people that we should all emulate? Americans? Germans? Russians? Don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

      • oldgeezer
        May 6, 2015, 4:19 pm

        @catalan

        As if you don’t know where the phrase of being a light unto nations comes from.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Unto_the_Nations#The_State_of_Israel_as_a_Light_unto_the_Nations

        The rest of your post is pure effluent as usual.

      • Mooser
        May 6, 2015, 4:39 pm

        “The rest of your post is pure effluent as usual.”

        Huh? Of course “catalan” is effluent. He’s an all-rightnik!

      • catalan
        May 6, 2015, 5:11 pm

        “The rest of your post is pure effluent as usual.” Oldgeezer
        I am not Irish and can’t write Ulysses and Finnegan’s Wake.
        Since I haven’t shot anyone (yet) I really don’t feel like I need to be a defensive for what soldiers do. I am for peace and love. Where we differ is bds, I think it harms rather than hurts. Maybe I will be proven wrong and historic Palestine will become like Denmark. If so, I can’t wait to see the logistics of it. Somehow, if Israelis have to pay more for goods and can’t travel abroad, they will turn into saints. Cool.

      • Annie Robbins
        May 6, 2015, 7:33 pm

        in general, are you an advocate of a carrot diet for israel, as in no sticks? and if so would that philosophy carry over to other countries as well, or just israel?

      • echinococcus
        May 6, 2015, 5:47 pm

        catalan,

        Neither Danes nor Swedes settled anyone else’s land, grabbing the sovereignty while genociding its inhabitants, at least not in the era of decolonization and afterwards.
        Now tell me you didn’t know that, will you?
        As for the Semitic trait, you are the guy who defends that there is a “Semitic trait” unifying all the Jewish people from Ethiopia to the North Pole in a single Volk that needs its Vaterlandm pardon Lebensraum. Not the people who see Judaism as a religion, period.
        Which reminds me that “Catalan” is a strange name for a rabid “Israel”-firster.

      • Citizen
        May 6, 2015, 6:02 pm

        Yep. What other country yells to the rafters they are a real Western democracy, the only one in the Middle East? When you point out how defective the claimed democracy is, the Zionists resort to, well at least we are better than the Arab states as to human rights. But those Arab states never trumpet they are Western style democracies in the first place.What makes me puke is US politicians sing Israel’s song, constantly tell us Israel has same values as we do; Bibi said the same when he visited us.

      • Citizen
        May 6, 2015, 6:04 pm

        @ catalan
        You live where?

      • oldgeezer
        May 7, 2015, 12:02 am

        @catalan

        “I am not Irish and can’t write Ulysses and Finnegan’s Wake.”

        Good for you. I’m not either. No Irish person wrote Ulysses. More sewage sludge from you.

        “Since I haven’t shot anyone (yet) I really don’t feel like I need to be a defensive for what soldiers do. ”

        I didn’t ask you to be defensive for what they do nor did I mention anything about soldiers in my post. I made a simple reference to hophmi’s comparison of Israel to Hamas. Isn’t that toilet bowl getting full by now? Better flush before it gets all over you.

        “I am for peace and love. ”

        Ooops too late. You are covered in it now. Not a single peace and love post in your history, just defense of a criminal rogue state which commits mass murder of babies, children, women and familes.

        “Where we differ is bds, I think it harms rather than hurts.”

        LOL No… Not at all. Where we differ is you defend human rights violations and mass murder, theft of land. As my history shows I have certainly decried the actions of Hamas which are terrorism. And I’ve taken flack for it. No… Not at all. We have nothing in common whatsoever. When you get a moral compass look me up.

        “Somehow, if Israelis have to pay more for goods and can’t travel abroad, they will turn into saints ”

        Probably not. In which case the pressure should be upped. State sanctions are probably going to be required. Have you deluded yourself into thinking that if we turn a blind eye to their crimes and write off the murders and theft which occur every week then they will turn into saints? Pull the other leg. They will use the opportunity to oppress, kill, steal, cleanse and create illegal facts on the ground.

        You have responded twice to my post which was a comment on hophmi’s post in which he implies Israel is no worse than Hamas.

        You have raised around a half dozen issues that i did not raise. You have made accusations against me on topics not even discussed.. You have made outlandish claims such as standing for peace and love.

        No, nothing in common between us. You are a fake, fraud and troll.

        Our conversation has ended.

      • RoHa
        May 7, 2015, 12:36 am

        “No Irish person wrote Ulysses”

        James Joyce wasn’t Irish?

      • oldgeezer
        May 7, 2015, 1:06 am

        @Mooser

        His parents hoped he would be affluent but he didn’t listen closely enough

      • oldgeezer
        May 7, 2015, 10:24 am

        @RoHa

        Mea culpa.

        I read Ulysses and thought Homer. The miracle of a couple of G&T’s.

      • catalan
        May 7, 2015, 10:35 am

        “Which reminds me that “Catalan” is a strange name for a rabid “Israel”-firster. -”
        Catalan is my grandfather’s family name on mother’s side. It’s common for Sephardic Jews to have names like that, like Toledo, Granada, etc.
        As to “Israel firster” I am no firster anything. I am a Spanish Jew from Bulgaria who has lived in the U.S. For 20 years. My relatives are everywhere. I once did a genetic study and they found Slavic, Greek, and Palestinian elements predominating.
        I have not said a word of hatred here because I simply don’t hate. You, on the other hand, are full of anger. That is not the way of the Buddha.

      • catalan
        May 7, 2015, 10:38 am

        “@ catalan You live where?” Citizen
        Albuquerque, New Mexico.

      • gamal
        May 7, 2015, 10:42 am

        ” “No Irish person wrote Ulysses”

        James Joyce wasn’t Irish?”

        While Joyce was Irish, he is not an Irish person, he is an Irish institution. I am surprised you didn’t know that.

      • just
        May 7, 2015, 10:55 am

        good one, gamal!

        ;-o

      • RoHa
        May 7, 2015, 6:44 pm

        @oldgeezer

        Homer isn’t a writer at all. He works at a nuclear power plant.

      • RoHa
        May 7, 2015, 6:54 pm

        “I am a Spanish Jew from Bulgaria who has lived in the U.S. For 20 years. ”

        If you are from Bulgaria, how do you manage to be Spanish rather than American?

      • just
        May 7, 2015, 7:31 pm

        A good question.

        It’s a mystery.

      • Bumblebye
        May 7, 2015, 8:13 pm

        @RoHa
        D’oh!

      • Mooser
        May 8, 2015, 1:42 pm

        ” I am a Spanish Jew from Bulgaria who has lived in the U.S. For 20 years.”

        That’s it “catalan” you tell us what a hildago you are! G-d forbid anybody should think you were just another Bulgarian..

      • James North
        May 8, 2015, 1:49 pm

        Catalan: Your English is awfully good for someone who came to the US only 20 years ago. You are either
        a) a linguist of astonishing and rare skill, or
        b) not who you purport to be

      • Annie Robbins
        May 8, 2015, 2:00 pm

        b)

      • catalan
        May 8, 2015, 2:09 pm

        “Catalan: Your English is awfully good for someone who came to the US only 20 years ago. You are either a) a linguist of astonishing and rare skill, or – ” James
        You are now making me blush. I am thinking to put this comment in a frame.
        Actually, I worked as a translator in Bulgaria for years. Also, I went to an English language high school where much of the instruction was on English.
        But I do have some linguistic skills too. I learned some German, French, Spanish and Russian. I was actually training to be a Bulgarian diplomat. I kind of wanted to solve the world’s problems. But the wind blew me away to New Mexico, where they need accountants and not diplomats…mice and men…

      • Mooser
        May 8, 2015, 2:12 pm

        “b) not who you purport to be”

        Maybe he just doesn’t know who he is? But one thing is clear, “catalan” knows who he would like to be.

      • catalan
        May 8, 2015, 2:16 pm

        That’s it “catalan” you tell us what a hildago you are! G-d forbid anybody should think you were just another Bulgarian.. – Mooser
        Moose,
        The good people of Bulgaria saved the Jews during WWII. That is an astonishing event. I love Bulgaria dearly. It’s a great country, with a complex culture with Slavic, Roman, and Greek influences. It’s my favorite place in the whole world.
        However, I grew up being with my grandparents all the time. They spoke Ladino at home, cooked Spanish food, sang Spanish songs and told Spanish proverbs. It was just my culture. My grandfather was high in the communist regime and they used his Spanish skills. He met with Alliende, Castro and Neruda as a translator for one of the higher ups. Sephardic simply means Spanish in Hebrew.

      • just
        May 8, 2015, 2:18 pm

        James, catalan rarely misses an opportunity to reveal his/her genius!

        …”I could have a bigger career but I am not interested. As to my degrees they are from Bulgarian, American and British institutions and include both humanities and economics.” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/04/violence-calling-finkelstein#comment-761630

        Methinks it is ‘b’.

      • Annie Robbins
        May 8, 2015, 2:33 pm

        just, a lot of thread spamming if you ask me.

      • catalan
        May 8, 2015, 2:35 pm

        …”I could have a bigger career but I am not interested. As to my degrees they are from Bulgarian, American and British institutions and include both humanities and economics” -just
        Just,
        You are unfair. All of the above is true but I don’t want to mention the institutions because then I could lose my anonymity. As far as the career, that is obviously subjective. It’s just that there are some pretty high positions that I can apply for if I wanted but I currently prefer to do other things.
        If Phil or James find my background or opinions of any interest, I would be happy to write a piece for the blog, in which case I might drop the anonymity. Then my credentials would be public. However, my views are not fully in line with the editorial ones so I doubt that would ever happen.
        Peace.

      • Annie Robbins
        May 8, 2015, 2:48 pm

        I would be happy to write a piece for the blog, in which case I might drop the anonymity. Then my credentials would be public. However, my views are not fully in line with the editorial ones so I doubt that would ever happen.

        we’ve published lots of opinion here not “fully in line” with any particular editorial stance. what would you write about? yourself? your anti bds stance? and when you reference your credentials it implies an authority on something relevant to a topic of interest. what might that be? why would being bulgarian or spanish or speaking several languages give your anti bds positioning creds?

        if you send in a submission it will be judged on its merits. and why are you concerned about losing your anonymity? do you think your opinions are radical?

      • just
        May 8, 2015, 2:39 pm

        Indeed, Annie.

        There’s nothing “unfair” about anything that I reposted of yours, catalan.

        I have never read someone toot their own horn on MW as much as you have. Go ahead, submit an article.

        Seriously, most people who post here are quite humble.

      • catalan
        May 8, 2015, 3:04 pm

        “I have never read someone toot their own horn on MW as – ” just
        Just,
        You are welcome to share your personal experiences and how they affect your worldview. It’s called being honest, not being a blowhard, as long as you stick to the truth. Phil Weiss shares personal experiences all the time. It brings credibility. Otherwise we would all read Wikipedia and be done with it. I am very cool with a critique of the Jewish worldview because I am familiar with many of its pathologies. I think it’s important to stick to the facts though. I get upset when the talk spills into vast Jewish networks and conspiracies, which just don’t exist. I figure if they did exist I would have surely been contacted by these invisible puppet masters due to my position and contacts.

      • Mooser
        May 8, 2015, 6:22 pm

        “I figure if they did exist I would have surely been contacted by these invisible puppet masters due to my position and contacts.”

        Gosh, what happened to the guy who couldn’t get “into the mainstream”? The one who was telling us about being just a regular guy?

        “You know, “catalan”, I used to think Jewish success was due to bias and favoritism” – Mooser

        “So what is the code? Why not share it with a dummy brother? What should I say next time there is a Jew interviewing me for a job? – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net
        /profile/catalan/1#sthash.JWkG5uxt.dpuf

        “By the way I am not high powered, I am in middle management. I could have a bigger career but I am not interested. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/catalan/1#sthash.JWkG5uxt.dpuf

        “As to me I used to be an illegal working with Poles, Philippinos and others in the restaurant business” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/catalan/1#sthash.JWkG5uxt.dpuf

        “In western Europe, Canada, and the U.S., being Jewish “opens many doors and it closes none.” – Keith
        “Please tell me where this door is. I am going in as as soon as I know! Thanks. One will suffice. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/catalan/1#sthash.JWkG5uxt.dpuf

        “I am not sure Seafoid. I have always been squeezed and lived among the squeezed. I am living the affluence here in the States but inside I will aways be a 7 year old boy with boogers waiting in line in the cold for the once a year oranges. It doesn’t work like that. People don’t change their ways under pressure.”? – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/catalan/1#sthash.vxFgQbuj.dpuf

        Okay, “catalan”.

      • Mooser
        May 8, 2015, 7:23 pm

        “Catalan” When you first arrived at Mondo, you expressed a great disdain for commenter “Talknic”:

        “@ talknic – you, presumably a native speaker of the English language, clearly do not know the rules for using contractions and apostrophes (it’s vs its). Yet you wish to be heard on international law. Learn grammar first:).” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/catalan/1#sthash.PW4yXTQl.dpuf

        “You are making some great points. However, respectfully, talknic is no Jane Austen or Emily Dickinson. He just repeats the same things about over and over, each time making the same grammatical errors as well. Browse through his archive if you don’t believe me.” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/catalan/1#sthash.PW4yXTQl.dpuf

        Well, there you go, “cattila”! There’s the subject of your first Mondo article! Call it: “Why “Talknic” is All Wrong and Has Bad Grammar”
        (Just running the title up the flagpole to see who sets it on fire, choose any title you like)
        Hell, I bet Mondo would promise to publish it, as soon as you hand it in.
        Ought to be a breeze for a high-powered, well-educated and traveled guy like you.

      • Mooser
        May 8, 2015, 7:42 pm

        “Homer isn’t a writer at all. He works at a nuclear power plant.”

        Really? Well, I guess it just show to go that you never know. I never thought that skinny Price kid from the Shady Rest Tourist Camp would end up working at a nuclear power plant! I was sure he had a big future in commercial baking or electronics.

      • lysias
        May 8, 2015, 10:05 pm

        Better to deal with Allende, Castro, and Neruda than to support Israel.

    • Citizen
      May 6, 2015, 6:07 pm

      @ hophmi
      NO , the difference is HAMAS does not claim to be a democracy like the USA or an EU state, and HAMAS isn’t the biggest beneficiary of US foreign aid in entire US history.

  13. a blah chick
    May 6, 2015, 12:48 pm

    “May the day come when a single Arab Prime Minister…”

    Hopmi, the Joint List got 13 seats and NOBODY came calling asking for their support. So why would you think they would let one of those people become PM? The Joint List ran on a platform of equality for ALL Israeli citizens and the Jewish majority said a resounding no. What they want are their privileges and the status quo, and they don’t want to pay for any of it.

    But congrats on working Hamas into the matter. One thing those people have never been accused of is killing out of boredom.

  14. Walid
    May 6, 2015, 1:03 pm

    Good-looking girl; a shame she is so vicious.

    • eljay
      May 6, 2015, 1:06 pm

      || Walid: Good-looking girl; a shame she is so vicious. ||

      +1.

      • Mooser
        May 6, 2015, 1:38 pm

        “Good-looking girl; a shame she is so vicious.”

        That particular phenomenon as been well-remarked on, and advice given.

      • echinococcus
        May 6, 2015, 5:51 pm

        Reminds me a lot of the angelic-looking uniformed blonde pictured holding a bloody knife in the cover picture on a postwar pulp novel titled: “Ilse, the wild beast of the Stalag”.

    • John O
      May 6, 2015, 1:23 pm

      Concentrate on the eyes, just concentrate on the eyes.

    • ckg
      May 6, 2015, 10:07 pm

      Good-looking girl

      On the outside, perhaps. On the inside, she looks like this.

      • Kris
        May 8, 2015, 3:27 pm

        There is a reason that so many good fairy tales begin in this way: “Once upon a time, there was a princess who was as good as she was beautiful.”

      • Mooser
        May 8, 2015, 6:38 pm

        “Once upon a time, there was a princess who was as good as she was beautiful.”

        That would be (I’m not kidding): “Princess Dora Beatrice of Labrador.” That’s the name on her papers. I told you she had one hell of a bloodline. A snob, too, always saying stuff like, “Seems a little dusty in here”, or sneezing, when I walk into the room.

      • Citizen
        May 9, 2015, 8:47 am

        LOL

  15. traintosiberia
    May 6, 2015, 1:30 pm

    “—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure”
    There is something wrong in the free dispersal of the relevant speech across the public domain .Hoepfully next time when more sanctions are touted in letters to WSJ for “Death to Amareica and Death to Israel” or Pamela in her next move wants the world to know of creeping backdoor entry of the death cults of Islam to US, she should ask her new found Zionist God how to make an offerring and the WSJ should scatter the news of the availability of the latest opportunity .

  16. MHughes976
    May 6, 2015, 4:45 pm

    The Hobbesian view of war where ‘nothing can be unjust’ is a defensible one and in a way it would be a relief if Israeli leaders adopted it clearly and consistently, getting rid of the false moralism in which Palestinian attacks are appalling terrorism, Israeli attacks on a massively greater scale are part of the world’s most moral form of conflict.
    I think Shaked is not (as yet) calling for a war of extermination but for a ruthless war. She still may not accept the other side of Hobbes’ argument, ie that the intention behind war, however ruthless, must always be peace. Again it would in a way be a relief if Israel abandoned all that ‘most moral’ stuff and simply said that it was playing to win by whatever means necessary and defined the objectives that would constitute winning. That would at least end the maddening fake negotiations where there are never any proposals. But Israel’s Western allies and patrons insist on the ambiguities and euphemisms by which Shaked claims she is infuriated. So of course do the liberal Zionists who are for ever on the verge of burning their passports.

    • edwardm
      May 6, 2015, 5:00 pm

      So is this “defensible” then?
      http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ghettos/images/Abusing%20the%20jews%20of%20riga%20big%20.jpg
      or this?
      http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/International/ap_nick_ut_pulitzer_prize_image_1972_vietnam_thg_120606_wblog.jpg
      or this?
      http://images.tcj.com/2012/07/Abu-Ghraib.jpg
      If that is just, then by all accounts, Hitler or maybe Pol Pot, Custer, and Ben Gurion were some real go getters for peace.

    • Citizen
      May 6, 2015, 5:57 pm

      If she says in public she’s playing to win at whatever cost to the opponents collectively, she sits in the same booth as Attila The Hun, or HItler, or Goebbels (“Total War), or Goering, when he said , he accepted his situation since MIght Is Right (& also, that democracies are easy to control by the use of Fear).

      Gott ist mitt uns: embossed on buckle of German soldiers in the world wars.

      • MHughes976
        May 8, 2015, 4:48 pm

        I share your views about the horror and hatefulness of certain historical events. Hobbes’ view is that horrible things are not necessarily, simply because they are horrible and cruel, contrary to moral law, which would make it our moral duty to punish (if necessary to destroy) the perpetrator and those who are on his side, because that would lead to endless exchange of horrible actions and to the death of everyone. If Attila has behaved atrociously with the support of most of the Huns, it is not our duty to destroy hundreds of thousands of Huns. It is our duty to set up a system, if this is at all possible, which will bind both us and the Huns and prevent atrocities in the future, ie to wage war with the aim of peace.
        Hobbes didn’t know about Goebbels but he was thinking of Thucydides’ portrait of Athenian democracy and the excesses for which it was responsible under the impulse of fear. I do think that this is a defensible theory of war and peace and a perceptive view of history. It is not an incitement to cruelty but an effort to deal with its horrors without getting involved in a cycle of cruelty and revenge.
        I think that the first few chapters of Leviathan are among the most powerful philosophical arguments ever written. I don’t know if you’ve had a look at them? That’s not to say that I think that they are the last word.
        If you are ready to say ‘I play this game like Attila the Hun’ then you have no right to respond moralistically if someone plays on the other side in the same spirit.

      • Citizen
        May 8, 2015, 6:33 pm

        @ MHughes976

        If memory serves, Ron Paul said the US had ditched just war theory for preemptive war application. Seems we copied Israel there; this also seems to apply to US police tactics & strategy & we know US is so enmeshed with Israel & our cops get trained by Israelis now.

      • RoHa
        May 9, 2015, 5:08 am

        @ Citizen.

        Not pre-emptive, but preventative.

  17. joer
    May 6, 2015, 5:28 pm

    The contrast of Frau Shaked’s natural physical beauty with her genocidal adherence to a mystical/racial ideology makes her remind me of Manson Follower Susan Atkins. I wonder if she will suffer the same fate as Atkins forty years from now: begging for forgiveness as she withers away behind prison bars. Or possibly she could be like Pamela Geller, traveling around Texas peddling snake oil hatred to paranoid psychopaths… with layers of makeup grotesquely caked on her face in a fruitless attempt to hide her hideous wrinkles,, Personally I hope Shaked…and Geller…are forgotten in forty years time by everyone except a few graduate students who are studying this sad period in history,

    • Citizen
      May 8, 2015, 6:35 pm

      @ joer
      If memory serves Susan Atkins was by far the ugliest and dumpiest of Manson’s female followers. I think you confused her with one of the others.

    • DaBakr
      May 11, 2015, 5:11 pm

      @jor

      ” I wonder if she will suffer the same fate as Atkins forty years from now: begging for forgiveness as she withers away behind prison bars. ”

      you keep wishing and wondering about that fantasy. you’ll really go far with that.

  18. Walid
    May 6, 2015, 6:45 pm

    “And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America.

    … The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to. ” (Ayelet Shaked)

    Certainly not in any way as a justification for her calls for the mass extermination of the Palestinian people, Shaked nonetheless asks very interesting questions about why the Americans, the British, the Russians and so on have not been dragged to court for their massive war time crimes. I’m assuming she purposely left out the fire and nuclear bombings of Japanese cities out of her shopping list because she felt that the Japanese had “asked for it” and implying that the Palestinians are in the same evil boat. Were Hiroshima and Nagasaki really necessary? She’s pretending that Israel is no worse but the majority of Israelis share her perverted mentality, and that’s what’s spooky about her.

    • michal
      May 7, 2015, 3:30 am

      The point on USA, Britain and Russia is valid, but from what I see, people opposing Israeli occupation and massacre of Gaza pretty consistentnly oppose American destruction of Iraq, NATO bombing of Belgrade and Russian punishment of Grozny. They are all war crimes.

      In fact, I have been pointed to Putin’s treatment of Grozny during Gaza massacre by supporters of Israeli policy (they are actually pretty similar) – well, if Putin is the moral standard by which they want me to judge Israel, I’m happy to comply.

  19. Laurent Weppe
    May 6, 2015, 6:57 pm

    the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.”

    Well, kudos to Netanyahu for finding someone who managed to be even more cartoonishly villainous than Ultron.

  20. just
    May 6, 2015, 7:32 pm

    “Israeli society isn’t extreme, so the center can still prevail

    Our political culture is sick and incapable of translating the popular will into a functioning rule of the people. So we must define a new center now.

    At third and fourth glance the results of the recent election appear less bleak than they seemed at first and second glance.

    The first piece of good news is that Naftali Bennett lost a third of his power. This was partly because his party was seen as homophobic — and in the new Israel you can’t be both cool and homophobic at the same tie.

    The second piece of good news is that Avigdor Lieberman lost two-thirds of his power because young Russian-speakers here no longer want Belarus politics, but California politics.

    The third piece of good news is that extremist Moshe Feiglin got kicked out of Likud, and Shas renegade Eli Yishai failed to make it into the Knesset. Because unlike (enlightened?) Europe, (dark?) Israel rejects candidates and parties clearly seen as racist.

    The fourth piece of good news is that Joint Arab List leader Ayman Odeh has spawned a large united Arab party, because in the democratic Jewish state Arab men and women can do what they can’t do in most Arab states — vote and be elected in a free and fair election.

    The fifth piece of good news is that the unadulterated nationalist camp gained less than one-third of the vote, and the split ultra-Orthodox camp gained little more than one-tenth of the vote. So the majority in Israel apparently is still one that can be negotiated with. Maybe it’s still one with which one can build — or save — a country.

    All this good news of the 2015 election has been overshadowed by one crushing piece of news — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s undisputed big victory over the media coalition that rose against him. But a mere six weeks after that bombshell night of March 17, this piece of news has grown stale. …

    …The conclusion is clear — we need a center. Israel needs a sane, strong, worthy center like the air it breathes. Since Israeli society is not that extreme, it’s possible to establish a new center. Since Israel is already in crisis, it’s crucial to establish a new center.

    As we watch the repulsive spasms of politics past, we must define the center now. Around it we can forge the politics of the future.”

    For more of Shavit’s delusions & contortions: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.655262?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    • Walid
      May 6, 2015, 11:13 pm

      “Since Israeli society is not that extreme…” (Shhavit)

      Funny.

    • mikeo
      May 7, 2015, 9:14 am

      Shavit is completely delusional…
      Magical thinking of the highest order.
      His lack of self-awareness is a massive problem for his writing.
      You can sense his pride, that he believes his assessments are worldly and sophisticated.
      I cannot believe he is aware of how parochial and gauche they seem to non-Israelis…

  21. David Doppler
    May 7, 2015, 4:38 am

    The big story is the coalition, and the language being used in the Israeli press to describe it is fascinating:

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4654681,00.html

    I can’t help but wonder will Moshe Kahlon affirm his deal with Netanyahu, when the prospects for him and his reform initiative within this dysfunctional coalition seem hopeless. Wouldn’t he be better off joining forces with the opposition, giving them a 67-53 majority, at least. Perhaps one of the religious parties would switch sides, as well. Perhaps Likud, sans its Leader, could be persuaded to join a broad coalition, with Herzog providing the new leadership everyone, I mean everyone but Bibi and Sara, are pining for.

  22. NickJOCW
    May 7, 2015, 7:09 am

    One finds these morally challenged attitudes more or less everywhere, but usually in isolation or in insignificant minorities, Israel seems to have concentrated them to the point where they have become the significant majority. This person’s appointment demonstrates that the Israeli political system has become something of a pantomime, and that may provoke some who have been turning a blind eye to pay more attention. Germany, which for historical reasons has long been in a delicate position now has a younger population which no longer feels the same sense of personal responsibility for the actions of the fast distancing past. Der Spiegal has an interesting analysis of this related to Netanyahu’s election:

    This puts German politicians in a moral dilemma: How should they deal with a country that is constantly pursuing a regime of occupation and whose treatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories occasionally resembles apartheid?

    http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/a-1031964.html

    The response to this kind of appointment can only serve to resolve the ‘dilemma’ for them, and where Germany goes others cannot afford not to follow.

  23. Sibiriak
    May 7, 2015, 8:08 am

    “Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people.”

    —————-

    And thus some 20% of the Israeli population are full-fledged enemies of the state. What should be done with this fifth column? Abrogation of civil rights, total surveillance, internment, expulsion? 20% of the population *at war* with the nation–hard to see how that can be tolerated.

  24. just
    May 7, 2015, 8:25 am

    “Israeli defense minister promises to kill more civilians and threatens to nuke Iran

    Israeli defense minister Moshe Yaalon on Tuesday said Israel would attack entire civilian neighborhoods during any future assault on Gaza or Lebanon.

    Speaking at a conference in Jerusalem, Yaalon threatened that “we are going to hurt Lebanese civilians to include kids of the family. We went through a very long deep discussion … we did it then, we did it in [the] Gaza Strip, we are going to do it in any round of hostilities in the future.”

    The Israeli official also appeared to threaten to drop a nuclear bomb on Iran, although he said “we are not there yet.”

    In response to a question about Iran, Yaalon said that “in certain cases” when “we feel like we don’t have the answer by surgical operations” Israel might take “certain steps” such as the Americans did in “Nagasaki and Hiroshima, causing at the end the fatalities of 200,000.”

    Relating a July 2013 meeting with UN secretary-general Ban Ki-moon, Yaalon recalled promising Israel would bomb the entire Gaza City neighborhood of Shujaiya.

    He showed Ban photos of villages in Lebanon and of “certain neighborhoods in Gaza, to include well-known Shujaiya, with many red spots” which he claimed were “terror assets in the densely populated urban area. And I said – July 2013 – we are going to hit it.”…

    Threat of BDS

    The conference was titled “Towards a new law of war” and was intended to help Israel use “lawfare” to defend its crimes in courts around the world.

    The other main theme of Yaalon’s speech, which closed the conference, was the “challenge” of BDS, boycott, divestment and sanctions. The Palestinian-led global movement aims to hold Israel accountable for its crimes.

    Yaalon sought to cast the grassroots activist movement as a kind of military front. He said that “delegitimization, BDS and lawfare” were just “another tool” in the war of Israel’s enemies.

    He complained that he had been unable to visit European countries because of the possibility he could have been arrested for suspected war crimes under universal jurisdiction law: “I prefer not to go to [the] UK, to London for about 10 years, or to Spain for a while.”…

    “Lawfare” conference

    The conference was organized by Shurat HaDin, a group of Israeli lawyers which is at the forefront of using courts around the world to defend Israeli war crimes, and attack Palestine solidarity groups.

    In 2013, as I reported for The Electronic Intifada at the time, it was revealed that the group has extremely close ties to the Israeli security establishment, to the extent of acting as a proxy group for the Mossad, Israel’s deadly overseas spy agency. …

    The New York Times reported Wednesday that Yaalon is likely to continue as defense minister in the newly-agreed government headed by his Likud party leader Benjamin Netanyahu, in coalition with the Jewish Home and other ultra-right-wing parties.

    The Electronic Intifada watched the entire conference by livestream and will be reporting more detail soon.”

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/israeli-defense-minister-promises-kill-more-civilians-and-threatens-nuke-iran

    Is it ok to promise to commit more war crimes?

    • oldgeezer
      May 7, 2015, 10:32 am

      He has certainly admitted that Israel commited what amounts to war crimes in it’s latest rampage as well. Yes the law needs to be changed to remove protection for civilians. That’s what he wants. Why does zionism want to drag civilization back hundreds of years. These types of people (Yaalon) would have admired Hitler were he killing people of the proper ethnicity.

  25. sklein1953
    May 7, 2015, 8:28 am

    Mondoweiss wrote? “In a Facebook post on July 1—a day before Israeli extremists kidnapped Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir and burned him alive—the lawmaker asserted that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for its destruction, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.” etc.

    This is taken out of context as can be seen from the later quote from her Facebook page:

    “….in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure…..”

  26. just
    May 7, 2015, 9:20 am

    Gideon Levy on Lieberman:

    “Finally we can say ‘good riddance’ to one of Israel’s most heinous hate-mongers

    Once again we hear cries of enthusiasm for Avigdor Lieberman: He taught them a lesson, that enigmatic Lieberman, the chess player, the strategist, the sophisticated, the man’s man, the man whose word is his bond, who understands the Arabs, and even the only one who can reach an agreement with the Palestinians. Most of Lieberman’s latest admirers come from the center-left. They will always qualify their remarks with, “I’m far from his positions,” and right after the “but” they will gush with admiration for the strongman, a man after their own hearts.

    More than what this says about Lieberman, this covert or overt admiration says a lot about the admirers and their real values. If Lieberman taught anyone a lesson, it was the media, most of which were impressed with him, if only secretly. Quite a few Israelis even wanted to see him prime minister. “He’ll show the Arabs and the world,” said the nationalists; “Only he can make peace,” whispered the leftists to themselves.

    Because that’s the way all these admirers want their leaders – strong, bold, aggressive and cynical; just like them (or at least the way they’d like to be). But the truth is that Lieberman is one of Israel’s lowest, most destructive politicians, among the progenitors of contemporary Israeli racism and one of the country’s most heinous hate-mongers. He has caused long-term damage by introducing hatred and racism into the accepted Israeli lexicon. If there is incitement against Arab citizens, Lieberman has a golden share in it. If there is demonization and dehumanization of Palestinians, Lieberman is one of its agents. If there is incitement against the left, Lieberman, whose concept of democracy is frightfully limited, is one of its instigators.

    Israel has never held him to account for this. It forgave and absolved him of almost everything – the suspicions of graft, his tainted political party, his dictatorial leadership, and of course his dark and primitive views. The center-left loved his aggressiveness, not to mention his battle against the ultra-Orthodox. Lieberman was portrayed as a harbinger of enlightened Israeli liberalism – after all, he favored imposing military service and the study of the core curriculum on everyone.

    His career was built on expressions of bullying that reached their apex during his ridiculous years as foreign minister. To the position meant to bring Israel at least a semblance of international legitimacy, it appointed someone who did it the most damage. Has he left a single positive impression anywhere? Is there a single person who believes he was a good foreign minister? His only contribution was to show Israel as it really is, without masks or makeup; a country that thumbs its nose at the world, at international law and decisions by international organizations, a country convinced it can do whatever it feels like doing, just because it can.

    Many Israelis applauded him for that; for his call to boycott Arab stores after they struck to protest war crimes in Gaza; for his proposal to hand over the lower Galilee Triangle to the Palestinians (“He’s the only one who has a plan”), for the way he compared Yesh Gvul to kapos, for how he was sickeningly rude to Joint Arab List leader Ayman Odeh, for declaring that terrorists deserve the death penalty. Lieberman the macho man.

    ………“We will serve the people from the opposition,” he declared in a round of interviews with his interviewer-admirers, who murmured “enigma.”

    But the truth is that the decline in his power and the possibility of his forced departure is the most joyful news of this election campaign. True, it’s poor people’s joy, but it’s joy nonetheless. It might be premature, but one can’t resist saying good riddance. Although wishing doesn’t make it so, one can’t help hoping that Lieberman will just leave.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.655252

    Yes Gideon, but you’ve got Shaked and Bennett now. What is “center- left” anyway? Is it akin to “liberal Zionist”?

    “Binyamin Netanyahu clings to a crumbly coalition precipice
    The Israeli PM has managed to build a single-seat majority, but it could come at a high cost, both at home and abroad”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/07/binyamin-netanyahu-clings-to-a-coalition-precipice

  27. catalan
    May 7, 2015, 10:56 am

    As a side note, I think the word “rabid” conjures images of an animal infected with rabies; it is an unbecoming and disrespectful way to address me, or anyone else.
    Respect.

    • just
      May 7, 2015, 11:19 am

      Have a look @ Oxford’s primary definition:

      “rabid
      [ ˈrabəd, ˈrā- ]
      ADJECTIVE
      having or proceeding from an extreme or fanatical support of or belief in something:
      “a rabid feminist”
      synonyms: extreme · fanatical · overzealous · extremist · maniacal · passionate · fervent · overkeen · diehard · uncompromising · illiberal · gung-ho · foaming at the mouth

      (of an animal) affected with rabies.
      synonyms: rabies-infected · mad · hydrophobic
      Powered by OxfordDictionaries · © Oxford University Press”

      • Annie Robbins
        May 7, 2015, 8:19 pm

        just, somehow i don’t think catalan is interested in dictionary definitions. she’d rather assume the reference was to israel lovers being a deseased dogs than being extreme · fanatical · overzealous · maniacal · passionate · fervent · overkeen · diehard · uncompromising · illiberal · etc etc.

        she wants up to pussy foot around what rabid “conjures” (in her mind) instead of the obvious definition .. and she wants respect at the same time. that’s a tall order.

      • just
        May 7, 2015, 8:31 pm

        True enough, Annie.

        The “catalan” ego is veritably ginormous. It’s also marked with many passive- aggressive features.

    • echinococcus
      May 7, 2015, 11:37 am

      It doesn’t conjure or evoke, having lost that connotation after having been a cliché for a long time; if it would have evoked an animal infected with rabies, that image is certainly more benign than that of a propagandist for war of aggression and genocidal invasion. Anyway, pride of Iberian origin and rabid romantic Biblical nationalism don’t coexist well.

      • RoHa
        May 7, 2015, 6:57 pm

        “if it would have evoked an animal infected with rabies”

        Foam-flecked, swivel-eyed, uncompromising, grammar fanatics urge you to write “if it had evoked an animal infected with rabies..”.

      • just
        May 7, 2015, 7:29 pm

        lol, RoHa!

      • echinococcus
        May 8, 2015, 12:38 am

        The initial intention, the delayed fingers on the keyboard and the slowly liquefying immediate memory remain out of synch with each other. Thank you for that twist of the knife in the wound.

    • Keith
      May 7, 2015, 5:43 pm

      CATALAN- “…it is an unbecoming and disrespectful way to address me, or anyone else. Respect.”

      This from the guy who claimed that Peter Belmont’s and Giles’ hearts would be “warmed” by the murder of Jews in Thessaloniki! Respect?

      • Mooser
        May 8, 2015, 6:51 pm

        Keith, “catalan” is quite a guy. I remember once, he broke his leg while posting at Mondo. So I called 911, and stayed with him until the ambulance came. I did my best, and tried to make sure he wasn’t suffering too much. “Catalan” I kept asking him, “are you all right? Are you comfortable? Are you comfortable?”
        Naturally, he replied: “Comfortable? Feh, I make a living.”

        Or was it another commenter who did that? Not sure, really. But it sounds like him.

  28. James Canning
    May 7, 2015, 1:23 pm

    Non-Russian Christians, and Muslims, are “the enemy”?

  29. Vera Gottlieb
    May 7, 2015, 2:25 pm

    These people make me feel ashamed as a human being and ashamed of my Jewish background. There is a price to pay for all this…and hopefully soon.

    • RoHa
      May 7, 2015, 7:00 pm

      No need to feel ashamed. Neither you nor your Jewish background are the guilty parties.

      Just stick with feeling anger and disgust.

  30. John O
    May 7, 2015, 3:29 pm

    Curious as to whether the new justice minister is actually a lawyer (not a requirement but it does help, as witness the awful – and hopefully outgoing – non-lawyer UK justice secretary, Chris Grayling). It seems she’s an electrical engineer by training,

    • Kris
      May 7, 2015, 5:23 pm

      Probably being a lawyer would not make a difference. Tzipi Livni is a lawyer, but she still maintained that for Israel to kill Palestinian families as they slept in U.N. school buildings was fine.

      In Israel, the “justice minister” is not about “justice.”

  31. Citizen
    May 8, 2015, 6:44 pm

    In addition to Sahaked as new Minister of Justice, a new guy is now in the office responsible for the administration of the occupied territories–he’s on public record referring to Palestinians as subhuman and animals.
    Rabat- Eli Ben-Dahan

  32. tony greenstein
    May 9, 2015, 7:59 am

    Re this nonsense that someone called JeffB apparently said, viz. ‘“The Holocaust justifies the Nabka completely. Had Zionism been successful a decade earlier a huge chunk if not all of the six million who died would have lived.” – I don’t know where it apparently appears but it is something that Zionists do often say.

    The truth is the exact opposite. If Zionism had not existed, then at least half a million to a million Jews who died in the Holocaust would have survived. They were indirectly responsible for Hungary’s half a million Jews remaining in ignorance about the destination of the deportations, through having sat on the Vrba-Wetzler Report. As Counsel for Rudolf Kasztner, Chaim Cohen argued in the Appeal Hearing in Israel, it is our Zionist tradition to select the few out of the many. In this case 1684 of the Zionist and Bourgeois Jewish elite.

    Couple this with the Zionist movement lobbying the Nazi government between 1933-39 not to allow Jewish emigration to any other place but Palestine, the sabotage of any other destination but Palestine (San Domingo, Sweden, Freiland, Guyana and England) and one can see what a disaster Zionism was for the Jews. The ‘logic’ of the Zionists was that if other places bar Palestine could take Europe’s Jews, the Zionist project would be a white elephant. What they termed ‘refugeeism’ (saving Jews whatever the destination) had to be fought.

    • just
      May 9, 2015, 9:21 am

      Thanks for that excellent post, tony.

    • JeffB
      May 10, 2015, 1:53 pm

      @tony

      . If Zionism had not existed, then at least half a million to a million Jews who died in the Holocaust would have survived. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-palestinians-government#comment-766731They were indirectly responsible for Hungary’s half a million Jews remaining in ignorance about the destination of the deportations, through having sat on the Vrba-Wetzler Report.

      This is the sort of crap that gets you classified as an anti-Semite. The deportation of Hungary’s Jews was mainly during March 1944. By mid May they were up to 12k deportations per day. The Vrba-Wetzler goes to the Slovak Jewish Council which was not a Zionist organ and it does so in late April 1944 after the process has started. It isn’t widely decimated until June and not in other languages until as late as November.

      The Zionists during this time period, saved about 4k by illegal deportations. When the report had been distributed the Arrow Cross Party still was able to deport hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews. So them knowing they were going to their deaths didn’t matter in 1944.

      Couple this with the Zionist movement lobbying the Nazi government between 1933-39 not to allow Jewish emigration to any other place but Palestine,

      There is some evidence for the Stern gang doing something like that. I see no evidence that this was the position of the Zionist movement more broadly. And we can see counter evidence that where the Zionists were able to rescue Jews and get them out of Axis countries they did so.

      For example:
      Yehuda Bauer (1981). American Jewry and the Holocaust: The American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee, 1939-1945. Wayne State University Press. p. 354. ISBN 0-8143-1672-7. Another major activity, which was financed chiefly by Palestinian funds but which also received some support from JDC, was the smuggling into Rumania of Hungarian Jews when the deportations to Auschwitz began in that country in May, 1944. It is not quite clear just how many Hungarian Jews managed to get across, but the number was in the neighborhood of 4,000.. Most of them came by a route organized by the youth movements, though some paid individual smugglers on the border. In Istanbul, Alexander Cretianu, the Rumanian minister, agreed that these Jews should be let into his country. Filderman and Zissu obtained similar assurances in Bucharest, despite heavy German pressure.”
      _________

      The people who killed the millions of Jews were the Nazis not the Zionists. Your fantasies of Zionists complicity are frankly disgusting. It is amazing to me how much hate can warp a person. The Zionists along with every major group while weak did what they could which wasn’t much. After the war they did what they could. And what they could do was make sure most of the remainder of European Jewry didn’t freeze to death in postwar concentration camps or die in the Palestinian civil war.

      • RoHa
        May 10, 2015, 8:11 pm

        “This is the sort of crap that gets you classified as a an anti-Semite”

        I can understand that it might get him classified as an incompetent historian, but why as an anti-Semite”

        “It is amazing to me how much hate can warp a person.”

        Far too many accusations of hate being thrown around from all directions. (Not just you, JeffB.) Seems like a form of intellectual laziness.

      • JeffB
        May 10, 2015, 9:54 pm

        @RoHa

        I can understand that it might get him classified as an incompetent historian, but why as an anti-Semite

        Normally if a BDSer quoted this stuff it would just be ignorance. Tony however is knowledgeable. he’s even done some of his own research, and some of it is quite good. That raises the bar as far as intent, a lot. Tony does understand how relative weak pre-WWII Zionist organizations were, how strong Nazi Germany was, the degree of influence… Moreover the fact that he was picking something this specific means he was aware of how little contact there was between Zionism and Nazis.

        Which means he was taking an isolated example, imposing a false historical narrative and then describing that false narrative using terminology which deliberately distorted it even further. What would be the motive for that?

        Far too many accusations of hate being thrown around from all directions

        I would agree. I’d love it if in general I/P were just treated like any other political issue of moderate importance. I don’t know whether you are repenting of your “enemy of humanity” type language but if you are that’s a good thing.

        I think a better tone would help immensely. Even better would be both sides charitably describing the conflict from the other’s perspective.

      • RoHa
        May 10, 2015, 11:40 pm

        “What would be the motive for that? ”

        I don’t know. I try not to attribute motives to people. I’m pretty sure I’d be wrong most of the time.

        ” I don’t know whether you are repenting of your “enemy of humanity” type language ”

        Heavens, no. Saying that some person or group has made himself/itself an enemy of humanity is not attributing hate to that person or group.

      • CigarGod
        May 11, 2015, 8:29 am

        Too fine a distinction to be understood by JeffB, I’m afraid.

      • JeffB
        May 11, 2015, 7:06 am

        @RoHa

        ” I don’t know whether you are repenting of your “enemy of humanity” type language ”

        Heavens, no. Saying that some person or group has made himself/itself an enemy of humanity is not attributing hate to that person or group.

        Well yes it isn’t attributing hate to them, it is a call for a universal hate to be directed at them. It arguably attributing hatred to all humanity towards that group.

        Your comments are so odd on this I’m starting to think this may be a translation issue.

      • RoHa
        May 11, 2015, 9:19 am

        “Well yes it isn’t attributing hate to them, it is a call for a universal hate to be directed at them.”

        No it isn’t. It is no more than a statement of the stance that person or group takes towards the rest of humanity. It does not in any way call for humanity to hold any particular attitude towards that group. Hating enemies is neither a logical nor a psychological necessity.

      • DaBakr
        May 11, 2015, 5:18 pm

        @roh

        “why…..AS?

        for the same reason that blaming Palestinians for all of their suffering around ’48 classifies one as a nakba denier which is grounds for being banned here on MW.*

        (as if you didn’t already know. and if you didn’t, poor you)

      • Annie Robbins
        May 11, 2015, 9:37 pm

        hmm, i’m not sure who cleared tony’s comment for moderation but we’re not supposed to discuss the holocaust on this level here because it leads to these very kinds of discussions. that said, i think, according to the kastner trial (lots came out in the trial) and argument could be made in tony’s favor, which doesn’t mean the majority of zionists or zionists “more broadly” at all, but key figures in the zionist movement (as opposed to your argument jeff regarding the Vrba-Wetzler “widely decimated”) would not have existed had zionism not existed, so in this regard he’s got a point (he qualified by using the word “indirectly” and was not referencing the holocaust in its entirety).

        anyway, i don’t think debating these topics or challenging these specific points means one is an anti semite, otherwise all the judges who came to their conclusions in the kastner trial would be deemed anti semites.

        and on the other point, it is not a translation issue jeff. attributing hate to someone (which is something i don’t even do to ideological enemies) is a lousy form of arguing (and an ad hominem) because in reality we can’t ever know what is in someone else’s heart or intent and it is quite different that claiming someone is an enemy of humanity. one judges how other thinks of a person or group (which can be measured; you are my enemy (speaking for ones self) or you are their enemy, judging others reactions) vs ascribing an emotion. if you want to speak of your own hatred, have at it. claiming others hate is a fool game, only for the weak and lame w/no argument.

        so, they are very different.

        that said, i think we’ve all spoken our minds and i’ll be trashing anymore comments debating this historical aspect of what happened in hungary during the final year (and horrendous last summer of death) of the holocaust.

        someone else might pass them for moderation but i’ll trash them. so can we switch topics please?

  33. charlesfrith
    September 29, 2015, 12:13 am

    I believe Ayelet is speaking at the Centre for Jewish Social Justice in New York on Wednesday.

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