Israeli Jews will never accept Palestinians as equals — Klutznick, chair of Americans for Peace Now

US Politics
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Jim Klutznick, the chairman of the liberal Zionist group Americans for Peace Now (and a political player in Chicago and an early Obama supporter), yesterday dismissed the idea of a one-state outcome in Israel and Palestine because Israelis will never accept Palestinians as equals.

Klutznick responded to Palestinian pollster Khalil Shikaki, who said during a Peace Now podcast, that the “major driver” for Palestinian youth today is “democracy and equal rights,” not what has driven Palestinian politics for the last 50 years, the desire for sovereignty. Shikaki said these young Palestinians see a Palestinian state as a, a delusion, and b, just another “corrupt inefficient authoritarian state,” so they dream of equal rights with Jews in one state.

Klutznick dismissed the idea:

You brought up the word democracy. And I just wanted to make this observation… particularly as it relates to your youth who are interested in civil rights and democracy. It seems to me that democracy is the common thread between either of these two versions. The difference is that you will not get civil rights under one state. And the only answer here is an independent and sovereign state for the Palestinian people where democracy will have a chance to flourish within the context of Palestinan democracy. Because I don’t believe it will ever happen in one state, with Israel never allowing there to be civil rights for everybody and an equal vote.

Shikaki said that he agrees, but this is not an answer for young Palestinians:

I actually share your view on this. However, what would you say to those 18- to 22- year olds who basically say, You will fail to produce a two state solution. Why do you want to prevent me from dreaming about a one state solution, in which we all live in peace with equal rights. We know that it will be a tough battle. We know that it will not be easy and that Israeli Jews will not want to give up on their own state, but if we can’t get a sovereign independent democratic state, we have no alternative but to take this approach.

What you just said and what I also believe in, is that only if we can provide them with a viable process that can lead to a two state solution. If we can’t deliver on that, then our ability to convince the youth of our argument is very very weak.

Klutznick said the only hope is to reengage the U.S., though not under Donald Trump:

I agree with what you said. I think the answer lies in the fact that the United States has temporarily as we hope here lost its status as an honest broker. And I think the hope for both the Palestinian and the Israeli people is that the United States regain that status. That’s our job. Not at APN because we are not a political organization, but I think the hope has to be that the United States will come to its senses and the people of the United States will return to power an administration that will regain that role as the independent broker, and an honest broker, because I don’t see any other alternative to fill that position, and I think that’s got to be everybody’s hope.

Shikaki responded, “I share that hope, and good luck with that.”

If Klutznick really sees the two sides that way– one society will never support civil rights and equal rights — maybe Americans for Peace Now is working for the wrong side! Klutznick would never work with American partners who held such views. The young Jews of IfNotNow are sure to ask the same questions. They celebrate Ahed Tamimi’s slapping an Israeli soldier who was occupying her property– even as Ori Nir of Peace Now has come out against her.

As for Klutznick’s hopes, on January 3, he and Peace Now ceo Debra DeLee challenged leading Jewish groups to come out vocally against the “belligerent occupation.”

Reacting to several recent moves by Israel’s government that sabotage a future Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement, Americans for Peace Now (APN) today called on fellow American Jewish organizations to join APN in vocal opposition to annexation and to unilaterally pre-judging issues that Israelis and Palestinians should negotiate to achieve a final-status peace deal.

But look at the most liberal group they reached out to and– the latest statements from the Union for Reform Judaism are entirely supportive of Trump on the Jerusalem decision!

We strongly commend President Trump and Ambassador Haley…

In other words, the U.S. Jewish establishment ignores Peace Now’s appeals, and by the way, the U.S. is not an honest broker, never has been, and the U.S. Jewish establishment loves it that way, and Peace Now stays on the board of the rightwing Conference of Presidents, another of the groups Klutznick wrote to, instead of voting with its feet. And Peace Now has nothing but contempt for BDS, boycott, divestment and sanctions, which all of those Palestinian youth support.

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68 Responses

  1. Citizen
    January 12, 2018, 3:09 pm

    Any real US journalist could get the information on all these Jewish-run groups organized to perpetuate Zionism and its results. Any US main media news outlets could inform the US masses what their taxes support regarding Israel. What is wrong with US journalism education and supporting groups? There’s way too many organizations towing the Zionist line that mask themselves as patriotic Americans in their official name. Somebody needs to list them & post them on social media.

    • JWalters
      January 12, 2018, 11:38 pm

      “Any real US journalist could get the information”

      This is an extremely important point. What this fact SHOUTS at anyone who researches the news beyond the mainstream outlets is that the ENTIRE spectrum of mainstream outlets is controlled by the Israelis. There is simply NO OTHER logical explanation. It’s crystal clear in this case that one of those tropes is true. Facts are facts.

  2. Boomer
    January 12, 2018, 3:10 pm

    Klutznick appears to be a might happy guy, and why not?

    • Mooser
      January 12, 2018, 6:05 pm

      “Klutznick appears to be a might happy guy, and why not?”

      Opportunism knocked, and he opened the door.

    • Emory Riddle
      January 13, 2018, 9:53 am

      Why is it some Jews think only Jews have any input in any number of topics?

      • Mooser
        January 13, 2018, 12:26 pm

        “Why is it some Jews think only Jews have any input in any number of topics?”

        “Emory” as a simple guide, the attitudes and tropes of American Zionists will track, correlate very closely with those of the American white supremacists. Do you hear them calling for Black or Hispanic input on any number of topics?

  3. Annie Robbins
    January 12, 2018, 4:32 pm

    it’s been clear to a lot of people for a long time the 2SS is dead. maybe he doesn’t realize this delay delay delay has made the situation worse, has killed off the chance for a 2SS. how could he be so blind? and here he is writing to jewish groups to denounce annexation. for all practical purposes hundreds and thousands of settlers would have to leave for there to be a viable palestinian state because of these decades of worthless negotiations. so maybe APN could figure out how to undo that while they’re at it. APN is not a very powerful group. have they ever had even one member as part of the negotiation team? who do they think they are? what possibly logical reason could there be that could be done now that couldn’t have be done in the last 50 years? or do they think the US will grow some balls and israel will voluntarily have some change of heart/agenda. might as well wait for godot.

    it makes perfect sense to advocate for equal rights in one state. it does nothing to hamper the goals of the 2 staters who are on a treadmill going no where. or more precisely two steps backward / one step hold. there’s no step forward, it’s like a ratchet. that’s why it makes perfect sense to advocate for equal rights in one state. it doesn’t hamper whatever the 2 staters are doing. we’re not their problem. and if at anytime israel decides to get off it’s high horse and allow two states or the US becomes some kind of equal broker — which i think we all know will happen when pigs fly — then palestinians can regroup and look at the new options.

    • Mooser
      January 12, 2018, 6:08 pm

      The standard on which organizations to support offered by Badee Dwaik in his article seem like a good one.

    • Maghlawatan
      January 12, 2018, 11:08 pm

      The Palestinians joined the Oslo process in good faith. Israel is sick. Israel never wanted peace. Israel wants everything. Israel thinks God loves it.
      Israel never thought things through.

    • genesto
      January 13, 2018, 3:23 pm

      Nobody ever seems to mention that hundreds of thousands of settlement Jews would have to be relocated from the land that would constitute this now mythical Palestinian state. Considering all the weeping and gnashing of teeth over the so-called liberation of Gaza years ago, when a mere 8000 settlers had to be removed – only to be relocated to the West Bank, with a lot of extra money in their pockets – it’s impossible to imagine any scenario where the 2SS could possibly occur. Just because current Israeli society is still too traumatized to even consider a single state doesn’t mean that things can’t change in the future. They certainly did in South Africa.

    • LHunter
      January 13, 2018, 5:58 pm

      I grew up in Canada, having immigrated there after the 1967 war, just before my 3rd birthday. The Orthodox Christian Ukrainian community was kind enough to allow us Christian Palestinians to pray in the churches (something my parents are forever grateful for). Once enough money was raised we formed our own church which continues today. It was at our church where I began to get a sense of what Palestinians (at least the Christian variety) thought about the proposed 2SS. I can’t tell you how many times I heard from them that the 2SS would be a miserable outcome for Christian Palestinians.

      They feared that a Palestinian state under Palestinian rule would be an Islamic state funded by Saudi, the UAE and other Gulf Arabs. True democracy, they believed, would never be granted to the minority Christians or any other minority within this new republic. Many went as far as to say that Christian Palestinians would be better off in Israel proper than an independent Islamic Palestine. What all of them wanted was to return to their olive orchards, to smell the orange blossoms, to pray at their holy sites, to eat their local fare, and unite with family and friends in the land that their ancestors have lived in for hundreds of years. The ONLY way they could achieve this, so I was told, was to be granted equal rights – period.

      Years later in university I heard the same calls from both Christian and Muslim Palestinians. No one ever believed that a carved up Palestine would lead to true justice and a good life for all Palestinians. They called for the bloodshed to stop and for Palestinians in the OT and Israel proper to be given equal rights – period.

      Years after that I began to solicit the opinions of Palestinians who managed to make their way from Palestine to Dubai where I was living and working. I was unsure of whether the opinions of Canadian Palestinians differed from the opinions of Palestinians who had only recently left Palestine/Israel. To my amazement, the differences were insignificant. Instead of being angry and calling for all Zionists to be removed from historic Palestine they, once again, spoke about equal rights for all under the law. They do not want to be herded and corralled into 22% of their ancestral lands – they want to be able to enjoy all of historic Palestine.

      All this to say that the 1SS with equal rights for all has always been part of the discourse for Palestinians. It has never been given the publicity it deserves until recent times. There is a simple reason for that – a 1SS with equal rights for all has a nice ring to it, is easy to understand and is in line with what most colonial settler states have done in their inadequate attempts to right the wrongs of the past. Indigenous populations in N. America, New Zealand and Australia, for example, provide all their citizens with equal rights under the law. Had the 1SS with equal rights message been sincerely presented and often by the MSM, I am certain that the plight of the Palestinians would have had much more popular appeal/support in the West.

      The Palestinians are desperate, made so by the greed and criminality of the Zionist invaders for obvious reasons. The more desperate the Palestinians get the easier it will be to placate them with small offerings (like 22% or less of their historic homeland) so the Zionists hope. This tactic has had some success with many Palestinian leaders calling on their compatriots to be realists and support a 2SS as detailed by the UN. Messrs. Finkelstein and Chomsky (who I both have the greatest respect for) are of the same belief believing that a 1SS has no viable support in Israel or abroad. What they don’t realize is just how desperate the Palestinians (particularly the young) have become and that being a realist for Palestinians in Israel and the OT means realizing that the US was never an honest broker (pigs don’t fly), the 2SS is and always has been a sham – a stall tactic that has allowed for the very real confiscation of Palestinian land and the very real denial of basic human rights.

      I, of course, will support whatever the Palestinians in Palestine and Israel want for themselves and will do my best here in the West to assist – 1S or 2S – theirs to decide. When I am solicited for my opinion, I side with the 1SS. Always have.

      • Donald Johnson
        January 15, 2018, 9:26 am

        Thanks for that post, LHunter.

  4. Maghlawatan
    January 12, 2018, 4:49 pm

    Settlers say never. They said it in Rhodesia. In Northern Ireland. In Mozambique. All wrong.

    • Misterioso
      January 13, 2018, 10:26 am


      Well said!!! History is with the Palestinians and the Zionists know it. It keeps them awake at night.

  5. yonah fredman
    January 12, 2018, 4:52 pm

    What flag do palestinians wave? the flag of equal rights? no. the flag of Palestine. come up with a flag, then you have a movement. until then, it’s really not clear what you have. two leadership groups: fatah and hamas, neither of whom will come forward and say we want one state. unless it is the one state of pre 1967, that is: jews leave and we get our country back. which is clear enough, but that is not the cause of equal rights. or is that not yet understood. you can take the position of this land is ours and you are colonialists and must leave. or a position that everyone should be equal. and that position does not have a flag.

    • Annie Robbins
      January 12, 2018, 7:12 pm

      what are you talking about yonah? maybe you should show concern the star of david is now associated with bombs, war crimes, apartheid, and ethnic cleansing if you’re so concerned with flags.

      • Mooser
        January 12, 2018, 9:43 pm

        Oh well, the old “what will the flag look like” wheeze didn’t go over. Now it’s time for “yonah” to ask: “Who will guard the airport!”

    • eljay
      January 12, 2018, 9:52 pm

      || yonah fredman: … you can take the position of this land is ours and you are colonialists and must leave. or a position that everyone should be equal. and that position does not have a flag. ||

      It certainly isn’t the flag of Jewish supremacism you and your fellow Zionists keep waving.

    • yonah fredman
      January 13, 2018, 12:17 am

      I have waved the blue and white flag, but I don’t wave it anymore.

      This so called one state plan based on equal rights has not and will not soon be an expression of Palestinian mainstream thought. Palestine is devoted to a flag, and I get it. 1897 Basel, bad news. 1917 Balfour bad news. Blue and white is answered by Green black red and white. But if you wish to forge a new future…

      This one state equal rights campaign is half baked ideologically rhetorically politically communication of a new idea. It is empty rhetoric. The kick out the colonialist idea is well expressed. This new idea is not. The flag issue is besides the point.

      When will the Palestinians begin a campaign to get citizenship in jerusalem? Why not? Because the equal rights campaign has no strategy on the ground. It is empty rhetoric. Opposition to the zionists is well expressed and repeated by the choir. If you are proposing an equal rights campaign you need something more. The true haters: “we must get rid of the zionists.” That s*** is loud. That equal rights s***? I can hardly hear it.
      (Please don’t dwell on the use of the word “haters”)

      • Eva Smagacz
        January 13, 2018, 10:23 am

        Yonah Fredman,

        You asked:

        When will the Palestinians begin a campaign to get citizenship in Jerusalem? Why not? Because the equal rights campaign has no strategy on the ground.

        They will begin a campaign to get citizenship in Jerusalem, the day Israel will drop its claim it is a country for Jews, and will create single category of citizen:
        and not like now,
        where you are currently allocated documents based on your ethno-religious category: Jews (privileged) and various non-Jews (not so privileged). 76/84

      • Talkback
        January 13, 2018, 11:42 am

        Yonah: “When will the Palestinians begin a campaign to get citizenship in jerusalem?”

        15,000 Palestinians have requested this since 2003, fewer than 6,000 were approved.

      • Mooser
        January 13, 2018, 12:31 pm

        . “76/84”

        “Eva” that brings you to 90%. That’s great!

      • Donald Johnson
        January 13, 2018, 1:31 pm

        Yonah, if you mean the comment section at MW, I agree. Some want the colonialists to leave, meaning nearly all the Israeli Jews. Others want a secular state with equal rights for all.

        My impression from thousands of miles away is that younger Palestinians are increasingly favoring the one state equal rights for everyone position. They are tired of their old leadership, both Hamas and Fatah. But I only read about this. If true, those are the people you should be focusing on and not people in this comment section.

        The BDS movement sidesteps whether they favor one state or two. I think they are eventually going to have to come off the fence.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 13, 2018, 2:17 pm

        i don’t think they are on the fence donald. i think the movement is made up of individuals and as a group they are focused on those (three) “basic rights and the implementation of international law.”

        that’s the focus and the conversation over 1S or 2S is just a distraction. it’s always been used as a distraction as a divisive tactic. there’s simply no need to choose one over the other when faced with an adversary who seeks to prevent both. i wrote about this in “the trap”

        this was written over 7 years ago. notice the “trend” i mentioned. that is no longer a trend, that is the primary hasbara defense applied by those who defend the occupation (i know, they don’t come right out and say that’s what they are defending — but it is). and they’ve created this conversation for a reason. so people like you can adopt this equation, whereby bds has to make some stance wrt 1S or 2S. why? because if they make a choice it will make a difference? it won’t. i’m telling you, it won’t. palestinians have been bending over backwards for 2S for YEARS, and all they hear is how it’s their fault it has not happened. no matter what you say, or they say, or anyone says, israel will not allow 2S of 1S w/equal rights. so let those rights be the priority and let the chips fall where they may.

      • Mooser
        January 13, 2018, 4:35 pm

        “Some want the colonialists to leave, meaning nearly all the Israeli Jews.”

        Okay, how many Israelis do you think will stay if there is any significant change in the relationship between Jews and Palestinians? If there is equal access to the courts? If property must be returned or paid for? Don’t really see any need to force people to leave.

        Why not let Israel shrink to its natural size?

      • Donald Johnson
        January 13, 2018, 8:42 pm

        Annie— good piece.

        I think you might have misunderstood me though, not that my personal views matter much. What I meant was that it was time for BDS to just come out for one man, one vote. But having read your piece I am thinking maybe you and the BDS people are right and they should just stick with their principles as written.

        I agree that the pro Israel side always makes it about them.

        Mooser, if the Israeli Jews don’t want to live in a country where Palestinians have equal rights, maybe many or most will leave. That’s their choice if we get to that point.

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2018, 1:14 pm

        . “That’s their choice if we get to that point.”

        True, they may leave, or, you never know, millions of Israelis will suddenly admit they really liked Palestinians all along, and were only waiting for a chance to live as equals with them and give them back stuff.

        And none of them will say “I’m gonna call up my old IDF buddies, we can’t have forgotten all we knew about explosives and guns.”

      • yonah fredman
        January 14, 2018, 3:42 pm

        Donald- I have little doubt that if unopposed the Palestinian majority would vote in an Islamic government and the “young Palestinians” that you cite will have as much power as the “young Egyptians” had under Morsi or have under al Sissi. There is no reason to assume that Palestine would be more tranquil, more democratic, more liberal than the countries that surround it.

        Obviously they are not unopposed and the Jewish Zionists of Israel are involved in the power that will determine the future.

        Insofar as the war of ideas, what I am suggesting is that the “young Palestinians” are proposing something new. Not kicking out all pre 1917 Jews from all of Palestine (which was the PLO charter pledge for the longest time) not kicking out all israelis from the west bank, which is the current pledge, but living together. Obviously “israel” and the blue and white flag do not represent their true aspirations, but somehow there will arise a new spirit of brotherhood and equality and that will rule because everyone, Palestinians and Israelis will be infused by this new spirit. If you don’t see how radically new this is compared to the previous pledges, then I can’t help you. And i believe in order to take this radically new idea to heart, it needs a flag.

        Or a spokesman. The general tone of Abunimah and Omar Barghouti is not infused with this spirit, even though their enunciations of principles is dedicated to these principles. But as I said, I do not believe that electorally they would succeed to be the new leaders.

        In this weekend of Dr. MLK it is worth noting the long path from slavery to Selma ’65. Slavery, civil war, reconstruction, jim crow and then the harry truman announcement to integrate the army. then the movement culminating in lbj’s “we shall overcome” and US troops protecting marchers and Nixon enforcing the 1954 decision so that de jure segregation became an artifact of history.

        The ebbs and flows, contributions of various presidents: lincoln, truman, lbj and nixon, the willingness of the marchers to march under the american flag as their inspiring spirit, the slow march of history indicates the long march that history usually must travel to achieve the distance between emancipation in 1863 and LBJ’s “we shall overcome”. the dynamics that the palestinian movement as exemplified by mondoweiss seems to be advocating is that Israel is the south and the american political class is the north that will react to the injustice to the palestinians by enforcing the rule of american imposed self interest (and altruism) against the israelis, just as integration was imposed on the US south. because the US populace as a whole really does not care about justice in Palestine, the primary movers seem to be the grass roots of the democratic party and that is the target audience for this website and the movement’s rhetoric. the involvement of american jews in the democratic party, certainly on the funding aspect, but also in the organizational and ideational aspects, makes american jews an obstacle or an objective of the rhetoric of this web site. and as such, I assert that the “equal rights” new tact, new objective, is vulnerable, because it does not represent the true political realities on the ground in Palestine or the tone of the “young Palestinians” that are represented by Abunimah and Omar Barghouti. And you can show films of Israeli soldiers beating Palestinians intercut with Charlotte marchers all you want and maybe the grass roots of the democrats will make american jewish sensibilities irrelevant as time goes on, but in the meantime, the rhetoric of “equal rights’ is not believable both on the ground and in the general tone. (the tone is the same tone of rejection of the Jewish zionists and merely a concession to political reality, it is not the tone of reconciliation, it is the tone of nationalism and separatism/rejection.)

      • Annie Robbins
        January 14, 2018, 4:01 pm

        If you don’t see how radically new this is compared to the previous pledges, then I can’t help you.

        this is not new, much less “radically” new . google Mubarak Awad. the leader of a mass movement. he was deported by israel.

      • yonah fredman
        January 14, 2018, 5:06 pm

        Muhammad awad, mass movement?

      • Mooser
        January 14, 2018, 5:10 pm

        ” And i believe in order to take this radically new idea to heart, it needs a flag” “yonah fredman”

        Flags: you gotta know how to hold ’em, you gotta know how to fold ’em.

        And this has been another edition of “yonah fredman’s” “Fun With Flags”

      • Talkback
        January 14, 2018, 6:37 pm

        Yonah: “… kicking out all pre 1917 Jews from all of Palestine (which was the PLO charter pledge for the longest time) …”

        You are lying:
        Article 4: The Palestinian identity is a genuine, essential, and inherent characteristic; it is transmitted from parents to children …
        Article 6: The Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist invasion will be considered Palestinians.

      • Donald Johnson
        January 15, 2018, 9:47 am

        I am not over there, Yonah, so I don’t have any firsthand sense of what. Palestinians want. LHunter’s post above is encouraging. This NYT story is moderately encouraging.

        But as I said, I don’t know.

        On the tone within the US, one advantage MLK had was that some or many white liberals largely embraced his message, at least superficially. It is very different for Palestinians. Things might be changing now— I am not sure— but mainstream opinion has always stayed firmly within a liberal Zionist framework and even there, it has tended to fall on the more conservative end of the liberal Zionist spectrum if you follow me. What I mean is that liberal Zionism as a category stretches from people who pay lip service to a 2ss, but sigh and put all the blame on the Palestinians for the situation, all the way over to people who have a foot out the door. In political circles and in much of the press people tend to fall on the conservative Israel justifying side of that spectrum, though the idiocy of Netanyahu and Trump have damaged the Israeli brand for American liberals. Anyway, pro Palestinian people who think the problem started in 1948 are treated as, at best, unrealistic nuts and at worst as antisemites. Up until now if a Palestinian gave the “ I have a dream speech” he or she would have been treated as a terrorist antisemite out to destroy the Jewish State or simply ignored.

      • Donald Johnson
        January 15, 2018, 1:45 pm

        One other thing, Yonah, regarding MLK. King could use America’s professed ideals and mythology to support equal rights for all. The US never lived up to it, but the ideals and words were there. If a Palestinian version of King tries to make a case to Israeli Jews or American Zionists, the founding mythology of Israel doesn’t have a whole lot of room for acknowledging a Palestinian right of return. I am not being snarky. Would be Palestinian MLK’s have much more of an uphill fight if they try to reach Zionists with a message of reconciliation and equality because of this, even apart from all the bloodshed.

      • yonah fredman
        January 15, 2018, 8:15 pm

        Donald- I think proposing analogies is part of the thought processes of argumentation. And they have some use, but limited use. The black slave situation which by 1963 was the century old former black slave situation is quite different than zionist yahoods versus palestinians, which is more analogous to white settlers versus native americans.
        It is natural for palestinians to view basel 1897 and Balfour 1917 as catastrophes and injustices. When I try to envision the state described by omar barghouti and abunima I don’t succeed. Thus their tone of voice is real, whereas their ideas are theoretical.
        I don’t know if phil’s theory of Jewish American liberal zionists being the key to the issue is accurate, but it could be. In 1987 the first intifada broke out and it is now 30 years later and I did not expect democratic party support for Israel to last this long. In that time jesse jackson was a major star and he combined many layers: farrakhan, hymietown and viewing zionism as a poisonous weed. No one has been as powerful since in the pro Palestinian democratic party camp, although Jews feared and others hoped that Obama would claim the pro Palestinian mantle. And it seems like he wanted to, but poor timing (coming into office when bibi replaced olmert) and forces in the Democratic party limited his influence to the Iran deal, something achievable and away from Israel palestine.
        The American public at large don’t think much about Israel palestine, but grass roots Democrats do.

    • Talkback
      January 13, 2018, 5:10 am

      Yonah: “unless it is the one state of pre 1967, that is: jews leave and we get our country back.”

      Rubbish. Not even in 1947 Palestinians proposed such a “solution” but a democratic state, based on majority ruling and minority rights. At the same time Ben Gurion proposed to put Palestine under Jewish “mandate” (aka control) and delay Palestine’s indepedence until Jew’s acquired a significant majority. When he was asked what he would do if the Nonjews wouldn’t consent he answered that he would use force if the UN accepted this plan.

    • traintosiberia
      January 13, 2018, 10:21 am

      1 One state solution will deprive Jewish characters .That is the argument. Or is it ? There will be still Sabath, there will be still the wailing wall, there will be exemption of Orthodox from military , there will be Hebrew signs , there will be study of Talmud and Torah and celebration of Hanukkah Ros hasannah and trepidtaiory warninhg about Shoah. Circumcision and antigay anti abortion anti interracial marriage attitudes will continue . May be the fear lies somewhere else . What is it? Is it the same practical considerations which prevented colonies from just political economic diplomatic mergers with the host (colonizers ) countries?
      2 “come up with a flag, then you have a movement. until then, it’s really not clear what you have. two leadership groups: fatah and hamas, neither of whom will come forward and say we want one state. unless it is the one state of pre 1967”

      Have you stay down and asked them ? Have you sat down and offered them ?
      No It has not been talked with honesty . There is always something – an old charter , an old slogan, an old terrorism act, an old rejection . But an honest negotiation will not hod the future hostage to past incidents .It should not . Then all negotiations will fail ( and would fail anywhere in the world and would have failed everywhere in the world )

    • CigarGod
      January 13, 2018, 10:30 am

      I vote Yonah to be in charge of all fashion in Palestine and Israel.
      Flags, uniforms, smiling Jewish Bombshell Betty’s marking each successful mission to Gaza…painted on the fluselage to the left of every F-Whatever Peace Jet pilot.

    • Misterioso
      January 13, 2018, 10:51 am

      @yonah fredman

      By signing the 1993 Oslo Accords, the PLO accepted UNSC Res. 242 and thereby agreed to recognize a sovereign Israel within the 1949 armistice lines, i.e., as of 4 June 1967 – 78% of mandated Palestine.

      The PLO also agreed to the US/EU/UN supported 2002 Arab League Beirut Summit Peace Initiative, which offers Israel full recognition as a sovereign state (per UNSC Res. 242, i.e., within its June 4/67 boundaries with possible minor and mutually agreed land swaps), exchange of ambassadors, trade, tourism, etc., if Israel complies with international law and its previous commitments. Fully aware of Israel’s demographic concerns, the Beirut initiative does not demand the return of all Palestinian refugees. In accordance with Israel’s pledge given to the UNGA in 1949 and by signing the 1949 Lausanne Peace Conference Protocol to abide by UNGA Res. 194 regarding the then 800,000 Palestinian refugees as a precondition for admittance to the UN (after being rejected twice), the Arab League’s Initiative “calls upon Israel to affirm” that it agrees to help pursue the “achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem…”

      Regrettably, then Israeli PM Ariel Sharon summarily dismissed the Arab League’s peace overture, as did Israel in 2008 and thereafter.
      Haaretz, December 1, 2010.

      “Ismail Haniyeh, addressing a rare news conference in the Israeli-blockaded enclave, signaled a softening of Hamas’s long-standing position prohibiting the ceding of any part of the land of what was British-mandated Palestine until 1948.”

      ” ‘ We accept a Palestinian state on the borders of 1967, with Jerusalem as its capital, the release of Palestinian prisoners, and the resolution of the issue of refugees,’ Haniyeh said, referring to the year of Middle East war in which Israel captured East Jerusalem and the Palestinian territories.”

      Also, in its revised Charter, April, 2017, Hamas agreed to a Palestinian state based on the 4 June 1967 borders. Regrettably, but not surprisingly, Israel promptly rejected the Hamas overture instead of using it to open a dialogue.

      As for the much touted 2000 Camp David Summit, working in tandem, Barak and Clinton tried to shove a very bad deal down Arafat’s throat. It could only be rejected. Suffice to quote Shlomo Ben-Ami, then Israel’s foreign minister and lead negotiator at Camp David: “Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians, and if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David, as well.” (National Public Radio, 14 February 2006.)

      The “offer” made in 2008 by then Israeli PM Ehud Olmert was never seen as serious because it lacked cabinet approval, he was under indictment with only a few weeks left in office, had a 6% favorable rating, and, therefore, couldn’t have closed the deal, even if the Palestinians had accepted it. (Olmert was imprisoned.)

      Unfortunately, Israel’s response to every peace overture from the Palestinians and Arab states, has been an escalation of illegal settlement construction in occupied Palestinian and other Arab lands.

      Unfortunately, Israel’s response to every peace overture from the Palestinians and Arab states, has been an escalation of illegal settlement construction in occupied Palestinian and other Arab lands.

  6. Eva Smagacz
    January 12, 2018, 5:21 pm

    We already have ample proof that Zionism, by definition, is supremacist in its ideology.

    Let’s assume that, by some miracle, the occupied native Palestinians will get voting rights, just so that Israeli government see if they can get BDS off it’s back.

    Lets even assume that there will be a new Israeli citizenship, independent of religion, race, country of origin of one’s ancestors and of colour of skin.

    Lets then assume that religion will return to private sphere.

    How open, then, is Judaism as a religion and Jewishness as a culture to the idea that non-Jews are their equal? 75/83

    • guyn
      January 12, 2018, 7:48 pm

      That’s the question, at least in the context of Israel.

    • Mooser
      January 12, 2018, 10:24 pm

      “How open, then, is Judaism as a religion and Jewishness as a culture to the idea that non-Jews are their equal?”

      Well, some non-Jews are more equal than others.

      • LHunter
        January 13, 2018, 7:26 pm

        Mooser – lol – true

    • Maghlawatan
      January 12, 2018, 11:18 pm

      IsraeL has no choice. Judaism may be exclusive but that only works in private. The situation is that Israeli Jews are running apartheid which is unacceptable under international law . It doesn’t matter what individual Jews want.

      The religion needs to reflect the responsibility of power. It it a total mess.

      It all goes original.sin of Zionism. A Land for a people. There was no free land. They had to seize it.

    • Misterioso
      January 13, 2018, 11:28 am

      @Eva Smagacz

      “We already have ample proof that Zionism, by definition, is supremacist in its ideology.”


      To wit:

      Zionists have great difficulty in dealing with the fact that Palestinians can trace their roots back to the Canaanites and much earlier. It contradicts their ludicrous claim that Palestine belongs to Jews. As a consequence, they have attempted to efface the history and heritage of Palestinians through denigrating them and even denying their existence as a distinct people. This was well demonstrated by Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir, who observed during an interview with the foreign editor of the London Sunday Times that “it was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine…and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist.” (Sunday Times (London) June 15, 1969)

      In the view of another prime minister of Israel, Yitzhak Shamir, the Palestinians are of no more significance than insects when compared to Jews: “From this mountain top and from the vantage point of history I say that these people [the Palestinians] are like grasshoppers compared to us.” (The Independent, April 1988, from Reuter, Tel Aviv; cited by Michael Rice, False Inheritance, Kegan Paul International, London and New York, 1994, p. 127).

      While delivering a televised address to his Likud party in 1989, Shamir further maligned Palestinians by describing them as “alien invaders of the Holy Land…. They are brutal, wild alien invaders in the land of Israel that belongs to the people of Israel, and only to them.” (New York Post, February 6, 1989)

      During a speech to the Knesset, Menachem Begin, Israel’s sixth prime minister, referred to Palestinians as “beasts walking on two legs.” (New Statesman, 25 June 1982)

      Regarding Palestinians residing in the occupied West Bank, Raphael Eitan, then Israel’s Chief of Staff, declared: “When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle…. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours. “(New York Times, 14 April 1983)

      According to the late Dr. Albert Glock, former head of the archaeology department at Birzeit University in the West Bank, who was murdered in 1992 by unknown assailants (believed to be Jewish settlers), even his discipline has been corrupted: “[A]rchaeology in Palestine/Israel has been conducted from [a]…perspective of affirming a Judeo-Christian heritage that satisfies Western Christians and Jews….There is little room for Palestinians in an agenda motivated to connect the Israeli present to the Jewish past in Palestine.” (Dr. Albert Glock, “Cultural Bias in the Archaeology of Palestine”, Journal of Palestine Studies, No. 94, Vol. XXIV, p. 53)

      To quote archaeologist Mortimer Wheeler, “More sins have probably been committed in the name of archaeology [in Palestine/Israel] than on any commensurate portion of the earth’s surface….”(Mortimer Wheeler, Archaeology from the Earth, Hammondsworth: Penguin, 1956, p. 228 quoted by Glock, op cit, p. 49)

      As Uri Avnery, renowned journalist and former member of the Knesset, observed: “These suspicions are nurtured by the fact that most Israeli archaeologists have always been the loyal foot-soldiers of the official propaganda. Since the emergence of modern Zionism, they have been engaged in a desperate endeavor to ‘find’ archaeological evidence for the historical truth of the stories of the Old Testament. Until now, they have gone empty-handed: there exists no archaeological proof for the exodus from Egypt, the conquest of Canaan and the kingdoms of Saul, David and Solomon. But in their eagerness to prove the improvable (because in the opinion of the vast majority of archaeologists and historians outside Israel – and also some in Israel – the Old Testament stories are but sacred myths), the archaeologists have destroyed many strata of other periods.” (Uri Avnery, “Three Provocations: The Method in the Madness,” CounterPunch,Febrary13/2007

      • LHunter
        January 13, 2018, 7:44 pm

        Misterioso – wonderfully informative – thank you

        fabricating ones history is messy business – it requires deceit, denials, theft and more than a touch of arrogance it seems

  7. pabelmont
    January 12, 2018, 6:02 pm

    1SS and 2SS (and anyone else’s dream) need not be dead, why dead? But what’s missing from almost every discussion is the description of a mechanism for getting to any dream-state (ha!) from today’s apartheid — which bids fair to be permanent so long as the only lever for change is in Israel’s hands.

    My favorite dream is not of a solution but of a mechanism, namely, a lot of pressure on Israel from places like EU. In this dream, BDS becomes so well accepted that even politicians, even their bosses (the CEOs of big corporations which have nothing to do with Israel), will feel the “Bern” if I may so express myself, of BDS and put real and sustained pressure on Israel. At that point (and no sooner) the lever of power will slip from Israel’s hands into the hands of people loosely joined by the BDS idea. What those people will demand of Israel is anyone’s guess. But as with South African apartheid, the pressure must grow here and there until it becomes more or less universal, becoming a sort of avalanche begun (let’s say) in EU and then joined by M/E, Africa, South America, Asia.

    Long ago I imagined that the outcome of such a new leverage would be the demand that Israel remove all settlers and dismantle (destroy) all settlement buildings. Such a demand, backed up by sufficient leverage, might motivate Israel to negotiate with the PLO, and who knows with what outcome.

    But in any case, think “mechanism” before thinking “outcome”.

  8. catalan
    January 12, 2018, 6:55 pm

    Regarding boycotts – I just went ahead and spend a hundred bucks at a Palestinian store here in Albuquerque. It is is called cafe Istanbul and they have a bunch of great Mediterranean stuff and even lots of Bulgarian made products. I think that trade leads to peace and friendships while boycotts cause strife. So I respond to evil with good, according to the teachings of Jesus. I plan to spend a lot more money with these wonderful Palestinians. That’s my response to the boycotts and the evil they seek to cause.

    • lonely rico
      January 12, 2018, 9:41 pm

      > catalan

      Regarding boycotts – I just went ahead and spend (sic) a hundred bucks … cafe Istanbul and they have a bunch of great Mediterranean stuff and even lots of Bulgarian made products. I think that trade leads to peace and friendships.

      Y’ur right catalan, you’ve convinced me.

      I’m gonna abandon my boycott of Bulgarian made products toot sweet.

      • catalan
        January 12, 2018, 9:55 pm

        “I’m gonna abandon my boycott of Bulgarian made products toot sweet.”
        Either you are distorting me or I was not clear. The store in question sells Bulgarian, Turkish, Greek, Hungarian products; but that’s not the point. I meant that the store’s owners are a local Palestinian family. Despite the fact that the bds wishes me to suffer and in some cases to even die, I choose to support these Palestinians and by buying the products sold by them, help them have a good life.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 12, 2018, 10:07 pm

        the bds wishes me to suffer and in some cases to even die

      • eljay
        January 12, 2018, 10:42 pm

        || catalan: … Despite the fact that the bds wishes me to suffer and in some cases to even die … ||

        AFAIK, BDS doesn’t give two shits about some Bulgarian guy who hails from Spain (he guesses) and lives in New Mexico. But please do provide a link to substantiate your claim. Thanks.

      • gamal
        January 12, 2018, 10:47 pm

        “I choose to support these Palestinians”

        You are shopping, grocery shopping and you feel condescension adds to the bang you get for your buck, been stocking up on kimchi? you’re sacrifice is acknowledged, that is why you explained how great you are isn’t it, because you had not heard from the “Thank you” man, in case it was missed, and to establish how much better than Palestinians you are, I would only expect mixed results with this approach and you can have that one for free, as I am vastly richer and more virtuous than you.

        Annie Cash has such a wonderful speaking voice, the minute he sings he has that old style when you are used to interacting with a boisterous close up audience, shanachie or griot style , man in black for president.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        January 12, 2018, 11:07 pm


        “the bds wishes me to suffer and in some cases to even die..”

        Please could you give some evidence of that?? The aim of the BDS is not to kill anyone and since you are living in U.S., how are the equal rights for the Palestinians in I/P going to make you suffer?? I am really interested in hearing your arguments on that!!

      • Mooser
        January 12, 2018, 11:44 pm

        I’m gonna abandon my boycott of Bulgarian made products toot sweet"

        I can live without toot sweets, but around here a lot of Bulgarians are in the marine trades.

      • Talkback
        January 13, 2018, 3:52 am

        Catalan: “Despite the fact that the bds wishes me to suffer and in some cases to even die …”

        Do you really believe that your monstrous lies become less see through if you accuse BDS of acting against ‘you’ as ‘you’ act against Nonjews in Palestine?

    • Maghlawatan
      January 12, 2018, 11:11 pm

    • CigarGod
      January 13, 2018, 10:41 am

      “The Evil of Equality”
      By Catalan

  9. Tom Suarez
    January 12, 2018, 7:25 pm

    Relevant quotes from the book State of Terror, p35:

    The fundamental difficulty over Palestine was that the Jews
    refused to admit that the Arabs were their equals.
    –Ernest Bevin

    [The democratic principle] does not take into account the fact
    that there is a fundamental qualitative difference between
    Jew and Arab.
    –Chaim Weizmann

    • Talkback
      January 13, 2018, 4:33 am

      Your book is a must read!

      And just ask any Zionist if she or he thinks that the Palsestinians should have exactly the same rights as Jews as reflected in their claims. They will fail, because they know that their ideoloy is only racist and supremacist.

  10. Kay24
    January 12, 2018, 7:57 pm

    This reminds me of a despicable lot of people, years ago, who thought they were a superior race, and looked down on all others. Roles reversed.

    • Citizen
      January 12, 2018, 10:25 pm

      I remember–how could I not–they’re on the History & Military Channels constantly; their grandchildren are giving the Zionists nuke-ready, state of the art submarines at deep discount.

  11. JWalters
    January 12, 2018, 11:41 pm

    young Palestinians “dream of equal rights with Jews in one state”

    This dream is exactly what the British government promised to the people of Palestine, before the Rothschilds torpedoed that promise. With financial muscle in Britain and the US, and then the UN, they injected a large contingent of armed, radical Jewish supremacists from Eastern Europe who were ready to kill Palestinians on their “sacred” mission.

    Everybody knew this would create a war zone, not a safe haven. And historically, war had been a major profit center for the Rothschild bank. With their international branches, they could make money from all sides of a war. e.g. “War Profiteers and the Roots of the War on Terror”.

  12. Talkback
    January 13, 2018, 7:49 am

    Meanwhile Israel is looking for peace while supporting a two state solution. NOT:
    Netanyahu’s party votes to annex West Bank, increase settlements

  13. Tony Greenstein
    January 13, 2018, 10:58 am

    Phil says that ‘If Klutznick really sees the two sides that way– one society will never support civil rights and equal rights — maybe Americans for Peace Now is working for the wrong side! ‘

    With respect, Peace Now has ALWAYS been advocating for the wrong side. Back in 1982 when it was formed it was put up against us anti=-Zionists on campuses as evidence of the democratic nature of Israel. Peace Now has never been an ally.

  14. Ossinev
    January 13, 2018, 1:28 pm

    “The store in question sells Bulgarian, Turkish, Greek, Hungarian product”
    Is this some sort of nuanced way of telling us that all these ” Balkan” dishes are in fact originally “Jewish Israeli dishes a la Hummus etc.?
    The Scots should start to get worried. The Zios may have their sights on claiming haggis.

    BTW I should get help with the “in some cases want me to die” syndrome. Sounds as if the anti – depressants aren`t up to the job.

  15. Citizen
    January 13, 2018, 2:59 pm

    Zionists sure know how to mask their agenda with their chosen names. “Americans For Peace Now” has an agenda directly opposed to America’s best values & corresponding legal principles.

  16. Paranam Kid
    January 14, 2018, 8:22 am

    I have said it before & I’ll say it again & I’ll keep saying it: STOP using the term “liberal Zionist”, it is an oxymoron. There is no such thing as a liberal racist !!!

    By using the term you are giving legitimacy to people who adhere to & promote a racist political ideology, which is what is costing the Palestinians their rights & their lives.

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